Their stance if someone is interested https://mastodon.world/@mwadmin/110654590632768079
They basically won't do anything preemptively.
This seems to be the part that relatively few people have read.
Hmmm... the admins said today on this post chain (at about 10a UTC) that they were going to making a blog post regarding this issue.
So hopefully more clarification will be coming. At this point they've heard from enough users to know that there's pointed disagreement with federating with Threads for more than a nanosecond after they become visible.
Not saying meta isn’t evil…. but the whole point of the fediverse is that anyone can start a server. Meta isn’t going to be able to track you any better just thru federation, anyone can already scrape the data. People are too quick to defederate everything
No meant to post here.. I see you didn’t call it out but privacy is a big reason people are worried about threads. Just posting my opinion. Feeds and algorithms can be adjusted if threads is drowning others out. I don’t know how good or bad threads will be for the fediverse but I don’t think you do either. I’m fine with servers taking a wait and see approach and with servers banning. I’m worried about people being very reactionary and servers banning other servers that take a wait and see approach. That is the thing imo that could really kill the fediverse
Also you are declaring lemmy.world is dead when afaik threads won’t even be federating with lemmy, they are just federating with mastodon
While I agreed those who do not want federation with Threads should leave (me included), lemmy.world has not bent any knee. The admin is taking a wait and see approach, and willing to block if it turns out bad
Embrace, extend, extinguish. This is what we must prevent.
This is bullshit. Explain how it can even occur instead of just spreading FUD.
I've responded to this article multiple times. It's actually not that great an argument. XMPP would have suffered regardless of Google temporarily joining them. Google being compatible for a short time isn't why it failed and Google changing away wasn't to destroy XMPP. It was because Google was failing at chat too. It was lagging behind Apple's messenger and even for a short bit to BlackBerry messenger. That's why Google's history of chat is a big mess. It kept trying new things and failing. XMPP didn't die because of Google. It died because of competition.
The long-standing history of Meta's flagrant unethical practices is enough reason to block them preemptively. I'll certainly be leaving lemmy.world, ending my donations to them, and moving my community to another instance if they federate with Threads.
Thank you for pointing out that this is so much worse than just EEE. Meta has a long history of social and political engineering, and deliberately creating a toxic environment that turned all of our parents and grandparents into deranged conspiracy theorists. They don't just let hate thrive on their platform, they artificially inflate it in the name of engagement and profit.
I see no reason to assume they won't do all of this again, and should they do it all again it's going to impact the entire Fediverse. Even if you just stick to instances that block Meta, if you're federating with instances that aren't, the toxic environment Meta is likely to build will come back to you. If the majority of instances fail to block them, I can't bear to stay here and watch what has become the internet's most healthy and vibrant community rot from the inside.
I honestly don't understand why this is even a debate. If even a fraction of the shit meta has pulled was done by a smaller Fediverse instance, we all wouldn't hesitate to defederate from them.
And to those of you who justify Threads because Meta is somehow the lesser of two evils compared to Twitter, please remember that while Twitter is owned by a raging and incompetent manchild, Meta has eroded democracies and played a major role in a genocide. Don't fucking support these murderers. Meta is more than happy to spread even more hatred and killing in the world if it boosts their profits.
I'm gonna need to see an argument on how Threads' toxicity will reach places that are at least once removed. You can't just use it as evidence when it's not even clear it would happen. It's like saying this community is already tainted because there are folks who also have Instagram accounts. If it's not via people spreading the toxicity, I'm all ears to hear your reasoning. Cause it's far from just being obvious.
What are you even arguing anyway? You're saying defederating Threads isn't even enough. There's no sign they'll even federate beyond platforms of similar concept (micro logging as opposed to link sharing/exchange).
Are you just saying by simply existing, if everyone doesn't defederate them, the fediverse dies?
I'd argue your attacking of other people shows that Threads isn't the reason behind people being toxic. Folks like you simply exist.
Where is the indication that lemmy.world have "bent the knee"?
mastodon.world announced they won’t block threads yet and lemmy.world has the same owner.
I just read the post you linked in the op. I was against federating then changed my mind after reading the post. Their reasoning makes sense, there is no benefit from detaching now but it's good to be cautiously optimistic with no issue with federating if there's potential harm.
They are pushing for a system to keep threads in check, which is what is needed
Cautiously optimistic means making sure you're actually seeing if folks are Nazis before calling them Nazis. They're saying let's sit at the table and leave the table if we see Nazis.
You again have provided zero arguments as to why a wait and see approach causes any problem. If the defederate a week after Threads launches ActivityPub, what horrors would have occurred that can't be undone? And if it's as bad as you suggest, it'd likely be only hours after launch.
So the argument for them bending the knee is that someone on a different instance disagrees with you?
You even admitting to not reading the post when you said this. The link you added leads to a post that you then admitted to not reading til later. They haven't bent a knee. You're just overreacting. You've provided no evidence other than just "look at their history" or vague claims similar to that. Other times you just insult the person providing an actual argument. You're a bad faith actor. You're toxic. Are you sure you don't belong on Threads?
I think it's absurd to give Meta the shadow of a benefit of the doubt. in the past, they have explicitly stated their intention to make facebook the internet. If zuck had his way, there would be exactly one website, a monolith collecting your data to more efficiently serve you ads. There is no world in which their participation in the fediverse is not self serving and a net loss for the rest of us.
What are you talking about?
mastodon.world, owned by the same people as lemmy.world, is not immediately defederating with threads.
and doesn’t even need a discussion.
The assumption that anti-corporate is the unanimous opinion of everyone here is false. I have and use apps from Meta. This is a topic that very much needs discussion.
I for one would appreciate federation with Meta. We can always defederate if Meta actually does something objectionable. But I see no reason to defederate before we actually know what federation with Meta looks like.
We can always defederate if Meta actually does something objectionable. But I see no reason to defederate before we actually know what federation with Meta looks like.
I don't hate corporations out of principle like the other guy, but there's no way this is gonna turn out well for the Fediverse. That's just not how Meta does things.
Agree, honestly, if people haven't figured out that mega-corporations can and will find a way to ruin a free space, you haven't been on Earth very long.
This stance doesn't affect the argument though. They're joining that space regardless of whether they defederate now or later.
I agree in spirit, but Meta is a known bad actor and wrecking ball that ran actual psyops against its own users and their networks just to see if they could make people depressed. They also engage in extensive, worldwide election interference to upend democracies. They don’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore.
This article lays out all the problems with the wait and see approach. We’ve been here before, unfortunately, and it only has a happy ending for the huge corporations looking to end us.
Edit: for those looking to get away from Mastodon’s main instances, give Fosstodon a look. Meta approached its admin with NDAs just like they did with Ruud, but refused it and published the email for openness. Here it is, by the way.
Federating would do more than defederating. The whole argument is that if they stop federating, they'll destroy the fediverse. People will leave activitypub-native instances to go to threads instead because they can't see Threads.
It's actually more important to show people a better way. Granted, if it's toxic, and we just defederate anyway, then it's already not a threat that most of the fediverse would change sides.
The EEE approach is not about whether any particular instance federates or not. Threads would need to create enough value to even make people want to care about them breaking protocol. And more to the point, we are a different culture than back then.
The only threat would be if you're worried Threads would provide substantially better content than here. It'd need to be good enough that a threat of them defederating others is more dangerous. If people made that argument, maybe I could see their point. But so far, I think the bigger threat is the content itself being toxic and garbage. I say let Threads mature a bit and let's see where it stands if and when they do federate (and if we even have to worry about seeing it on Lemmy or Kbin).
And let's be honest, Google didn't kill XMPP just out of EEE. They did so by simply making such a monolithic platform that "everyone" had an account already so why create a separate account for messaging by itself. Pretending Google Talk existed in a vacuum is deceptive at best and objectively wrong at worst. I have a Google account and it's causing me such agonizing pain that it's taking me so long to extract myself out of it. It'll likely take me months or even years to fully remove myself and that's not even counting that I then need to migrate out of Microsoft too.
The "average" person does not even know what an API is or cares. I doubt they even know what's going on. You sure do like to make grand sweeping statements that have no basis in fact.
OP doesn't know what an API is. They've shown they have effectively no idea what they're talking about.
OP is reminding me of teenagers on trans twitter catastrophizing tiny events into an end of the world call for the stocks and gallows.
I haven’t responded to them directly cause of that. Have really wanted to but had to stop myself cause I know it’ll be fruitless
Note: not hating on trans twitter. I’m trans. It’s just a hurt people lashing out at small things they feel they can exert some amount of control over in a world that is on fire
Wow, now insulting. The last thing people do when they run out of ideas. Welcome to my block list.
I'd like to disagree with OP, but a lot of us did join after Reddit fucked up.
Sure, but Reddit managed to be ok for 18 years before this fuckup. If we get 18 years of useful content out of Meta and then it fucks up like Reddit did I'd count that as a massive win.
"you shouldn't make grand sweeping statements"
Ok. You're just a troll now aren't you. Those are the only statements you've been making.
Ok, imagine if Reddit had been part of the fediverse in the way Threads is planning to be. Then, when spez needed to fuck himself, we could have migrated more easily to another instance, without losing access to Reddit.
I'm not sure about you, but that sounds like an upside to me.
Stop being entitled and speaking for other people. The fact a discussion is occurring means it needs a discussion. You aren't some big brained person who just knows better than anyone else. It's clear folks disagree with you. This means your objective stance of truth is objectively wrong. It's simply subjective opinion. So is mine. But stop providing no actual formal logic behind your claims. If you think your doing that, then I suggest actually taking a formal logic course when you reach college.
If anyone does decide to leave lemmy.world, do not leave the lemmyverse. Join another lemmy instance or start your own instance. Lemmy is the future. Free, open source, federated link aggregator.
You don't need to stick with Lemmy. Kbin is just as good. I actually prefer it because they already solved the problem of allowing users to block domains.
What is the difference between lemmy and kbin? Is Kbin PHP while lemmy is rust based?
Honestly, I don't know much of the differences or if it's even simply which framework they used. It just seems to be two different link exchanges/sharing apps that are compatible with each other. Like, I'm currently on kbin but can see this just fine. I'm not sure what my instance's stance is currently, but there's no need to act beforehand as there's nothing lost by doing it afterward instead of before. I don't understand the people complaining that it needs to happen immediately right now. Just seems so impatient and entitled. Folks just need to calm down. They're pulling their hair out for no reason. No one has been able to articulate an actual real problem with wait and see. Just very vague "meta is obviously evil" kind of deal.
I understand privacy being a concern but reddit, lemmy and kbin are not designed for privacy since all posts are public. I guess the upvote/downvotes could be more private perhaps which will protect what users voted on if a database leak occurred.
And E2EE messages are coming in the future I believe
Yes. It's nice to have choices.
I have multiple accounts and .... So I am actually fine if Lemmy.world keeps Threads on. In fact I'd just be curious more than anything.
I can always just use my other account on another instance if things go bad.
I'm getting sick of these "time to leave" posts about people wanting to jump ship on each sites decision. Beehaw decided they only want peaceful severs, time to leave. Lemmy.ml was founded by communists, time to leave! Lemmy.world doesn't instantly defederate from other instances, time to leave!
You can't just continually shuffle the community from site it site.
While a entire community can't convince itself to leave, the beauty of the fediverse is if you as a user want to leave it's very easy to switch instances and get access to most of the same info you want.
If you only scroll-read here - then, yes, it is easy
I certainly post and read. I'm happy with my instance currently, but should lemmy.one does something I don't agree with I will have no problem switching.
People are so weird. Their online presence means so much to so many. I want to reply to all of them, just switch instances. As important as they feel, nobody is going to bat an eye when they move, yet they feel that they are really losing something if they do.
I'm glad someone realizes it. Online presence is something you want to be worthless. If people see worth in that can lead to a set of problems you don't want.
I agree with you. We should not kill them for not defederating immediatelly
It's almost like this constant 'call to leave' is meta's Trojan horse.
A way to create discourse, lower patience of users and make them question their new home away from corporate enshittification.
I just ignore posts like this, as a partially functional human I am able to form my own opinions and draw my own lines in the sand.
I believe the approach described in https://www.timothychambers.net/2023/07/03/instagram-threads-and.html is much more pragmatic than “Meta is bad, Threads will corrupt us” argument and I honestly believe that fighting among fedi instances would be the first win of EEE strategy. Meta IS bad, federation with Threads may be an opportunity, fighting before even watching and assessing the situation is wrong imho. “Watching Like a Hawk, with our Fingers Over the Block Button.”
I feel like your post is low info outrage bait.i am no expert on all this but this seems dramatic.
Awesome! Thanks a lot for caring enough to do all this.
Or you can just leave once you actually see what happens. You lose nothing. You're providing no actual problem posed by wait and see. If it isn't good and they defederate after Threads federates, there's very little difference to defederating beforehand. Certainly no permanent problems. I think most people are choosing not to stress and worry for literally no reason, especially when it may not come to pass.
Less stress in your life is better. Worry is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it won't get you anywhere.
All this talk of Meta is histrionics at this point until we find out if they are going to federate. Wait and see then you can decide what to do.
In that very toot they literally say they will defederate as soon as there is any reason for it, and they will be watching for such reasons.
Mate, if the word "histrionics" is abusive, wait till you see the rest of the internet.
The toot that was made before launch? That toot? The toot that referenced they have their finger over the button to defederate? That toot? The toot that you didn't bother actually reading?
Very nicely put. I've used all this for deep reflection about my internetting as well and I don't think I have come to terms with everywhere being ruined by corporate. It's not like they don't fuck us over as well in the real world and I now realize what kind of fight we're in on- and offline. Don't want to give up any bit of space to evil corporations. I think it's easy to create really quiet Lemmy instances (or other social sites, federated or not) where one can rest from all those aggressive algorithms, and if I do it at some point I will make it very connected to real life and good for information gathering. Other than that, I like real life, I'm not interested in much virtual stuff.
I think it's silly people are using arguments from pre-launch. If what I'm being told is true from what is being posted there, it's no doubt that it'll get defederated from most places fairly quickly. However, whether your instance federates with it or not will do nothing to address your concerns that are legitimate. You have nothing to fear from the algorithm or curation in any way. That won't affect you, federated or not. You also won't be drowned out either. That's not how federation works. Threads will dominate the narrative for a bit regardless of federation.
And your closing statement about "us" and "we" is culty and creepy. Don't speak for people you don't even know.
You want a server run by "one of you"? Run one yourself. You can do so for well under $100 a month (likely significantly lower depending on how snappy you want it).
I'm kind of tired of folks protesting against people hosting instances for others and entitled individuals making demands that they've done nothing to earn.
This has nothing to do with corporate. If you read what you linked, you'd know that full well. I'm guessing you didn't go more than that one link deep and didn't dive down to read the given reasons for the stance. Lazy.
I replied to the points you literally put in your post. I don't know what you want. What points are you making then? What worry did I not address?
This grand standing and these purity tests about threads are sickening.
vlemmy.net is great
As I understand it, vlemmy's policy is to federate with everyone. I'm guessing they would probably be the last Lemmy instance to defederate from Threads.
Their stance is here https://vlemmy.net/comment/639289
Leaving this site as well, as it keeps a mention as to whether an instance is currently allowing open sign ups or not.
Note: Even if an instance isn't currently allowing open sign ups, they may have another sign up method going on in the background (like application/approval sign ups). If you're interested in the instance, you should still check, just don't expect quick/instant approval.
We want to prevent enshittification. Not encourage it.
This is literally FUD. Unless you can provide actual details of what the problem actually would be, you're just spreading fear with no basis.
Given the relative scales, it's best to put protection in place, then wait and see.
If Threads is a positive place, we open up and nothing is lost.
If Threads is a(nother) cesspit of hate and bots, then we have protected ourselves from it.
That argument works the other way a lot better. Mainly because a delay of a day or so won't kill anyone and we'd actually see if it's a cesspool and not some random screenshots or hearsay.
The admin is ready to defederate. Theres no benefit to doing it early.
I disagree entirely, that's simply incorrect. You can observe whether it is a cesspool or not whether you federate or not. The federation will not affect it at all. Everyone is able to go and use Threads, we won't need to rely on "random screenshots or hearsay", or to federate in order to see whether it's good or not.
It's an unknown quantity, 1000x bigger than the current fediverse. If we federate then block, there is just a mess to clean up. And you know the first few days are going to be a nightmare anyway, as they are with any social media platform, while the controls spin up and new ways to abuse them are found.
The benefit to doing it early is to let it land and let the smoke clear before making a judgement, without creating a mess for existing users. This is really obvious.
I fail to understand your benefit. Defederation is extremely quick. If it's a problem, there's no mess to really deal with. I fail to see what the problem is even if it is problematic for a day or two. No one has actually voiced a real concern that provides a valid benefit to defederating beforehand vs seeing what happens and then defederating. You lose absolutely nothing.
As you said, "if it is problematic for a day or two". It could be enormously problematic.
You fail to understand the benefit, and I don't need to convince you, it's still correct :)
Pretty sure you can't explain what's wrong because you have no idea how ActivityPub works.
Good rebuttal though. "Just trust me I'm right. Stop asking for details or questions. Just do what I say."
I'll wait and see if Facebook is even gonna end up doing federation correctly. Maybe they wont.
As much as I preemptively created an account on another server (as I prefer admins to have a decisive stance in regards to Meta and similar corporations), it'd be good to wait for lemmy.world admins official message on it before telling everyone to leave.
But if they do "officially" bend the knee, yeah, it's time to leave if you want to avoid Meta.
Man.... I just got here.
- Metas algorithmically curated feed happens only for threads users
- In few hours threads got much more users that lemmy has - meta do us in any ways - we are small group of people which will not consume meta ads/style
- What special Lemmy.world did in this context?
Lemmy.world isn't preemptively defederating with Threads.
The developers already said they plan on Threads being multi-instance. Preemptively doing anything is just stupid. It might not even do anything.
That's not how it works. Threads using an algorithm does not force it onto any other platform.
Also something else I just thought of. We need to keep in mind the algorithm is per user on Threads. They'd need to make it global to affect other instances. It defeats the purpose of their algorithm. They'd make it less valuable to themselves if they tried to inflict it elsewhere.
That's not how it really works either. And again, if that becomes a problem due to them somehow breaking the spec, defederating when there is an actual problem is still viable and loses virtually nothing.
- you don't understand ActivityPub. You're objectively wrong here.
- that there's any arguing shows your supposed objective stance is objectively wrong. Stop speaking for people you clearly don't. It's a sign of narcissistic behavior and entitlement.
- it's not like that at all. It betrays a lack of understanding of the platform you're using. Defederating even a day later would clean it up fairly quickly. There's virtually nothing lost if they defederate afterword. Your analogy is just so wrong on so many levels.
And to address your supposed algorithm issue: ActivityPub doesn't work that way. It can't change a feed in realtime. It just publishes. And again. It won't affect you. Even if they hacked and broke the spec, all it would do is change what you see from Threads. Whoopity doo. Join a Kbin instance and just block it from your feed.
I lost you. algorithmic "feed" is created by Threads for Threads users. As long as you personally do not subscribe to Threads "communitues" (or whatever it will be) you do not see there. Without Threads you can find an unpleasant context in Lemmy as well, if you search for it just or browse "all". If you want instance admin decide for your what you allowed to see and protect you from everything what they thing is not nice - there are few.
I don't WANT to agree, but I kinda do.
We're here because Reddit was shit on top shit, led by gaping anus. We all accept that Meta is the same.
We didn't want Reddit profiting from our work. Meta will do the same, only more competently.
Defederation is useless at scale They can continually spin up new instances that act as spies and bridges to Meta's area.
Once enough Meta bridge nodes are woven into the Fedi, they'll be masked by a backchannel to mask the exchange/activity.
Someone plz tell me I'm wrong, but this is how I think things work in the background...
- Bob creates a Lemmy node - Zucc1.ughfuckoff. It has 3 users and basically shops around until someone in lemmy.world's sphere allows federation. Zucc1 looks like any random, small instance.
- Once federated, Zucc1 syncs to its connected Lemmy instances - for now there is no Meta connection.
- Zucc1 can then federate with a bunch of other instances, including Zucc2.
- This repeats for a few weeks, infiltrating Fedi. This could be happening now.
- A new set of Lemmy nodes spin up and federate only with a portion of the spy instances. The spy instances don't respect the federation rules, distributing portions of the Fedi sync back to the Meta connected nodes, masking the source and destination.
- Once signed posts are received by the spy nodes, user names are swapped with a table synced by spy and bridge instances. User1@T4server.threads becomes User7@Zucc4.ughfuckoff.
- The Threads user sees their message from someone@lemmy.world (which can also be swapped if they worry Threads users care about any of this stuff).
- The Lemmy user sees the message from User@Zucc4.ughfuckoff.
Probably easy to combat when it's one instance here and there. If it's constant and automated, federating would have to be paused until the spies are weeded out and there's a better detection strategy. If they get a big enough network going, they could all dip out at once, change identity, and refederate back in as the Fedi network flips out because of all the sync mismatches. Just more new nodes joining in. They have the source code, so they can act differently from other instances as long as it doesn't cause problems.
Is this a realistic scenario or am I way off base? I feel like it has to be one of the two.
I'm not on lemmy.world, but I've joined some communities that are. I think an important question is, for any community mods who take this stance, do you plan to shutter your lemmy.world community and move to another?
This situation is one reason why it's important to get tools for community migration into Lemmy. (Another is: what if an admin simply has to shut down their instance for personal reasons?)
(Also FWIW there's already reason to defederate based on the garbage moderation even if you're not concerned about EEE, so I don't get admins who are in "wait and see" mode.)
Meta literally posted pro Brexit propaganda courtesy of Cambridge Analytica on the night before the referendum. They're evil as hell.
You do realize algorithms won't apply to your instance, right? ActivityPub doesn't support the type of tech you're worried about.
I think many of the wait and see is due to not even knowing how well Threads will turn out. Threads may come out with some valuable creators. And if they implement the same capabilities as Mastodon, they can just limit Threads. People can see posts from those they specifically choose to follow on Threads, but nothing else.
You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm not surprised, but disappointed. And I'm even tired to talk about it. It's just so fucking dumb.
Do the fosstodon people have a Lemmy instance?
Wait, did I read something wrong... I thought they were like "we don't want to talk to Meta at all".
Edit: oh yes I see.
It's all getting a bit Judean People's Front around here. I know there's a generally leftist userbase, but do we have to do this?
That's less about defederating with Meta. Meta are the Romans. It's about people defederating with anyone who federates with Meta.
Is there any way to move a community? I created vans@lemmy.world but I will not be hosting this community on this instance if it federates with Threads. Also going to stop donating to Lemmy.world if this is the route they will take.
Rather than make thread after thread after thread about it, just start an instance with blackjack and hookers and threads.net on your blocklist
"drama"? that faq thing doesn't change the fact that we don't respect meta and don't want to share a platform with them
and it's no surprise the authors of the software are supportive of its mass adoption, that doesn't mean I have to tolerate a shitty company
we don't respect meta and don't want to share a platform with them
I guess a big part of the dilemma is, though we mightn't respect meta, some of us respect some of the people who use their services - even like some of them - and would like to be in the loop with them without using meta's services ourselves directly
I'm on a Lemmy instance that's preemptively defederated, and I respect that, but I might think about creating an account on another instance so I can have interoperability ... That said, I've done pretty well almost entirely ignoring Facebook and Instagram so far, so maybe I just won't care enough
If personal attacks are the only response you can give, then they're clearly right and you're clearly wrong.
Is there any way how to move account into another instance? Basically so I don't lose posts.
I myself am interested what lemmy.world's admins will do. Now they get a lot of criticism for not doing anything but so far I wouldn't blame them that much.
PS: I would probably still defederate if it was my decision
I was going to switch from lemmy.world to lemmy.ml but disappointed that I'd be losing all my comment & post history. Not to mention you have to re-subscribe to all your communities again.
In response to your update about the algorithm, I highly suggest reading how ActivityPub publishes posts. This won't be as much of a concern as you think. It'd require breaking the spec entirely. It would literally not be compatible with other instances if they had a real-time algorithm like that. The only thing it can truly effect is if you browse Threads directly. Even then, there are certain standards it has to follow if it wants to be compatible. More than likely, you will get a "diminished" Threads experience (ie: you will not see any "benefit" of any Threads specific functionality). They already stated if you apply Thread specific privacy controls, it simply won't be posted to the federated feed. It's important to realize their actual feed will not be the same as the federated feed. I do not think Meta wants to capitalize on the fediverse. I think they're doing it as an inexpensive option to be available in the EU without having to interoperate with direct for-profit competitors.
Again, some folks won't be sold on the mess federating with Threads will look like. Let it play out and if you are correct, they will defederate very quickly and there won't be any lasting harm. Meta will gain nothing. You will have stressed and lost years off your life for worrying so much.
Just drink some tea and watch the sunset or something.
Aaaaand the argument is moot.
https://fortune.com/2023/07/06/mark-zuckerberg-replacing-metaverse-with-twitter-killer-threads-fediverse/ (may be paywalled, it worked for me once, but visiting again it was blocked)
Threads isn't going to be one instance. Threads is gonna be like Kbin or Lemmy. Users can set up their own instances. So you can't simply defederate from Threads as a whole. I'm sure there will be some primary instances one can defederate from, but this preemptive motion to do so seems misguided and may not even be possible as we don't truly know what the domain will end up being.
Then why is there the option of defederating at all?
Defederating must be based on facts and evidences, not on imagination.
.
I'd argue defederating can be based on whatever the hell the admins of the instance wants. That's the freedom of the fediverse, instances are free to choose what they do and do not want. And you the user are free to choose the instance that aligns with your wants.
Obviously, we're only guests in the admin's house, as long as the admin wants us to be there. But during the time I was on Mastodon, I saw some (de)federation discussions, and the admins said that most of the time: facts, not assumptions.
My statement was more referring to the idea that defederating based on facts are not a definite rule. Ideally facts are used, but sometimes it won't. Speculation is pretty fair considering prior facts in this scenario.
No one is using any facts that actually makes sense. They just keep using scary corporate spooky words. Ignoring that the toot says they will defederate if there is reason to do so addresses the "speculation". It's simply a matter of whether the defederate now and risk being overzealous or defederate the next day after they see evidence. There's no real harm in making sure one isn't overreacting.
Embrace, extend, and extinguish is a real tatic used by big tech companies for years though. It is fair to assume this strategy will be in play, as times the FOSS community hasn't things died as a result.
You can't just keep saying it's a tactic without remotely arguing how it's even possible. Facts will help you. Spreading FUD with no understanding of how ActivityPub works doesn't help you.
You're right, I don't know how ActivityPub works. Perhaps explain to me how this tactic is impossible?
I can only base things off of my knowledge and from what I understand you can remove activitypub support just as (relatively) easily as you add it.
You've been very active in this post attacking users personally, but are unable to actually articulate anything of your own. Care to elaborate on how this is all a non issue, or your understanding of ActivityPub?
ActivityPub works closer to an RSS feed, so it wouldn't be real-time like an algorithmic feed that updates constantly. When you post something via ActivityPub, it simply posts. Other servers will rank it based on the actual stats. So the best that can be done to try and force the algorithm on you without breaking spec too much (ie: doesn't change the spec, but uses it improperly) would be to post it with false statistics. It's pointless to do that though. So ultimately, the algorithm will have very little effect. In regards to EEE, I can't think of how it actually could do that, and I'm at a loss why I need to prove a negative. Anyone who is positing to will happen needs to back up their point of view with how.
And literally everything I've posted were my own thoughts. And yeah, I was abusive to the person who told me I was illiterate because I asked them to clarify an extremely vague FUD stance.
I just want people to articulate what the difference is between defederating now and defederating after seeing how it actually plays out. Literally no one has done that yet. Not one single person has been able to back up their point with an articulated answer beyond "but but meta is evil." Yeah, I agree. I don't have Instagram. I don't have Facebook. I don't have Threads. I don't even care if my instance defederates before or after either. I will care if they choose not too and federating causes the experience to degrade. But I don't need to worry about that right now. It costs a lot mental stress to be worrying about such a non-issue now when it's just as easy to take action when it comes time to cross that bridge.
Personally, I just really dislike how poorly so many people are using logic and that is what I'm more interested in. Unfortunately no one has shed any light that actually has evolved the topic beyond the same vague principle of "meta is bad." Hell, some are arguing entirely different points but the OP seems to be entirely in agreement even though the logical conclusion isn't remotely the same between the two.
I just want to know why there are users so actively trying to dismantle other instances. Like, is OP secretly a fan of Threads and is spouting this nonsense everywhere trying to get people to leave instances everywhere?
It's entirely not doing anything positive for the fediverse to be acting like many of the other folks in this thread.
The only group that benefits from posts like this is Threads.
Appreciate you taking the time to write that out. You make some good points. I've been no lifing this subject for the past couple of hours, and while I was definitely on the bandwagon that OP is, I've pretty much arrived at the same consensus. I feel it's a wiser choice to wait and see, before going full scorched earth. Cheers.