What else did you expect from Meta?
Vacuum up all data, categories it and let advertisers pay to target those demographics.
I especially love the "other data"... What the hell else is there?!
Also "Sensitive info", what is that? Fingerprints, social security number, and penis size?
Ha! They can't measure mine because it's detachable!
Detachable peeeenis
What if they find it? And try to sell it back to you?
Apple lists the following:
“Such as racial or ethnic data, sexual orientation, pregnancy or childbirth information, disability, religious or philosophical beliefs, trade union membership, political opinion, genetic information, or biometric data”
Biometric data is a bit scary.
Trade union membership, Political opinion, genetic information - scary shit for a corporation to have, and all of it in service of greed.
They probably know if you have a Costco card or not and that you ate the whole box of muffins even though you said you were only having one
If you have a smart light bulb or thermostat you control through your phone, they probably know when you went to bed last night, and approximately what your electric bill was last month--unless you get electric bills by email, in which case they might know exactly what your electric bill was last month.
laughs nervously
Rotation data? System volume? Why? What use could they have from knowing rotation data? What's the endgame to these seemingly irrelevant data points? This stuff is so scary, at some point they'll know what you're thinking before you've thought it in the first place.
I know right? It just seems so excessive.
I always find it funny that meta and google collect all your data for ads, but I've never seen an ad that I was interested in
I feel the same. But I would guess that consciously it not, we are now more aware/knowledgeable of a product's existence because we came across an ad.
I think children are WAY more susceptible to add though. So many times I have seen my nieces and nephews playing free games on their tablet and just completely watch the video ad that interrupts the game. Kids are like sponges, just soaking everything up.
There's gotta be some studies somewhere on the subconscious effects of advertisements.
Depends how they are delivered. Social media posts are bad because they look like posts (with a tiny “promoted” badge somewhere) so those get me for a split second.
But I’m an avoid ad at all costs kinda person.
Yes, unconsciously, we are all subject to the influence of advertising and manipulation of information even if we think we are consciously aware of it and try to avoid it. Others around us are, and they influence us, culture dictates norms and communicates through overt and symbolic language. It impacts our decision making processes. Advertisers know this and have leveraged this since the creation of that field.
Here's a fun piece by Adam Curtis about the origin of PR, advertising, and its roots in psychology at the turn of the 20th Century: The Century of the Self . I think folks here will enjoy it considering why we left Reddit :)
What's your field of work?
Nice try Zuckerberg
Lol, it’s more to show a point. Most engineers and programmers are VERY hard to advertise to. We do to much research, so it’s often an ignored group in marketing. Easier to go after other demographics.
Yeah, I've been using the internet since the 90s, and I've never clicked a single ad, aside from accidentally clicking one because it moved under my mouse cursor or finger right as I was trying to click something else. I'm very selective in what I buy, and don't just buy something because I saw an ad. The only advertising that sometimes works on me is an ad for something new at taco bell, pizza hut, etc. Where you're like huh, that looks pretty good, I'll have to try one. But any durable goods that aren't consumable, yeah I'm doing research before I buy it.
I rarely see any ads. First thing I do on a clean windows or new phone, is to install adblockers. Simply because they have become so intrusive and takes up a lot of screen realestate. On top of that ads have been attack vectors for zero day exploits into people's computers several times before.
One place I still see ads are on Facebook, and they never target anything I'm interested in. I suspect it's because of greed. Because they are absolutely collecting my data, so they should be able to target me with relevant stuff, but they will allow any ads as long as the advertisers pay up. I have seen explicit ads on Facebook.. on Facebook! Where users almost gets banned for saying butt. Ads on the other hand, is fine..
The result is I'm bombarded with irrelevant ads, that I never click.
As services gets more aggressive with pushing ads down my throat, the more aggressive methods I'm going use to block ads or find alternative services. They did it to themselves.
I mean that's not exactly the point of ads, they still win whether you're interested or not
Not really. They get money when you click on them. They don't get anything for displaying it. That's the whole point of having targeted ads, it increases the chance of interacting with them.
I know it's for advertising but there's a paranoid little corner of my mind that imagines insurance companies paying for some of these, uh, "user insights."
No it isnt, Cambridge Analytica was a data leak through a Facebook exploit, advertising companies don't sell data because it's more profitable for them to be the only ones with it.
It wasn't an exploit, but it was data scraping via the API. That's why the API is so locked down now - for example, you can't create a third-party FB app any more.
How do you think they monetize your data in the first place?
It's all ads. No data is sold. It's not the data that's monetized; it's your attention.
I don't think so it was not really a leak through an exploit. Data was collected by one party through Facebook was bought by CA and then used mainly for targeted political advertisement.
Yeah, so an exploit
How do you think they monetize your data in the first place?
Advertising. Did you not read my comment? Have you never looked at their earnings?
Ho no it's not just for advertising anymore. Insurance companies and more have started buying your info from data brokers.
Hopefully that means they’ll start giving me better rates!
Hahahahahahaaaaa, good one!
No, they'll start raising rates for people with weight loss apps on their phone, or refusing coverage for people who made too many phone calls to an oncologist, or got a lot of texts from their pharmacy saying "X prescription is ready." Companies collecting medical data is very, very scary for a lot of people.
Even worse in the third world without many of the data protection that first world citizens enjoy. Nobody gives a shit who gets their own data - Data Privacy advocates get hassled by the very people they are advocating for.
I mean, did anyone think it wasn’t basically spyware?
Almost every app on your phone is like this. Facebook, Twitter and Insta especially.
I'm surprised people are surprised by this. You've all been walkign round with spy devices on you as long as Eddie Snowden told you a decade ago.
I love how you say ‘almost every app’ and then your three examples include two Meta apps and also Twitter. Their whole business models are to gather as much as possible to sell.
Not every app needs your health data, financial information, and usage data to send short messages to their friends. I get wanting a certain amount of data in order to do certain things but needing basically everything possible frankly SHOULD BE eye opening to people if they didn’t already know.
I just happened to pick the lowest hanging fruits. I could list many more but it'd be easier to list the ones that don't.
Put it this way: Android now has an automated feature which disables app permissions for apps you've not used in a while. I regularly get notifications of apps that have had permissions blocked because I've not used them in a week. Even Google realises that developers are getting obnoxious with their permission demands.
And Google aren't innocent. E.g. Google Home, Chrome. But also non-Google: Binance, banking apps, Fiverr, AliExpress.
I suggest installing an Android firewall. You can use a non-root version. You'll get so pissed off with the constant 'phone home' notifications day & night that you'll disable them. I was getting fucking RSI in my wrist cos the notifications made my Garmin vibrate almost non-stop for every notification going from a phone app to somewhere across thw world with my data. Last night I got 3 notifications in 15mins stopping me from sleeping and I still had things locked down a lot.
Until you've looked at how truly obscene it is you don't realise just how banal this post is.
Their whole business models are to gather as much as possible to sell.
I wish people would stop repeating this, since that's not how any of this works. It's a common misconception that way too many people believe to be true. Logically it doesn't make sense - having data that other companies don't have is what makes the company valuable, so why would they sell that? Google would just buy Facebook's data and vice versa, and then neither of them would have a competitive advantage.
Data is used for ad targeting. Advertisers specify the audience to show their ads to, and Google/FB/etc deliver the ads to the specified audience. The advertisers never actually see the data, nor do they see the exact users that saw their ad.
How do you think Meta and other similar companies attract advertisers? They sell ad space to them with the ability to highly target ads to their users.
That’s what I mean by sell - they are literally letting advertisers buy ads to target to all of the people who they’ve gotten information about that would most likely click on and convert to buyers. Non-targeted ads are significantly less valuable from an advertising standpoint because if they don’t apply to you, you’re more likely to ignore it and the advertiser is getting less money back on their ad purchase investment.
They sell ad space to them with the ability to highly target ads to their users.
Yes, but that's different to directly selling the data, which is why gets said (or implied) a lot.
They are focused on the immediate profit, not long term; no publicly traded corporation focuses on long term, not anymore. If it increases their bottom line to sell my data, they will.
What they have that's unique is their particular algorithm for targeting. They don't need to keep my info to themselves to profit off said algorithm.
In short, I don't believe you. shrug Nothing personal...
But if they sell the data, then isn't their ads delivery system less effective and therefore less valuable? If two people have the same data sets, they can undercut each other when selling it/access to it. Makes more business sense to hold onto the data, and just sell ad delivery to businesses that want to show ads to the users that that data is about.
If it increases their bottom line to sell my data, they will.
It doesn't though, since the data (having unique targeting attributes that otter ad networks don't have) is what makes the company valuable.
What they have that's unique is their particular algorithm for targeting. They don't need to keep my info to themselves to profit off said algorithm.
Targeting is mostly about having good data. The algorithms are all based on having the data. If other companies have the same data, they'd be able to use it in similar ways.
What also impresses me is the app size: 191MB (before installing) for an app that doesn't have any complex feature.
Love to ship every icon in 1080p and a JITing Javascript VM that runs on top of a JITIng Java VM and also the code to collect all this data and the APIs of thirty ad networks to send it to. Also a complete reimplementation of buttons, can't be caught dead using the buttons the system provides.
So many trackers that even a kennel of bloodhounds can't keep up with it.
I don't see how the app could possibly function without access to your call logs and messages. /s
I mean, it's meta - of course it's too invasive.
"You can be unethical and still be legal"
- Mark Zuckerberg
ITT people are surprised that facebook wants to steal your info, what a surprise!
This is a lot more than mildly infuriating.
Is that we we put you?
Post number 3.492 complaining about Threads
Do you really think, there should only be two post complaining about this shitty piece of software and then we should walk our way?
Clearly there should be 3491 only.
There's a big range between 2 posts and obsessive reposting of the same thing over and over
Yep then the same people go saying "wow can't believe how there was only few posts and people already forgot it."
I see Lemmy is already at the "X is bad, updoots on the left" stage
Hey it's my turn to post this tomorrow
Lol people see this and then think I got nothing to hide and proceeds to download🤣🤣
I find this ridiculous, but the general public doesn’t seem to care. And this stuff will continue until they do. So forever.
No they not, in EU people where using VPNs (probably free, with more tracking) to use Threads.
When USA tried to block TikTok, people started to use free VPNs to continue using TikTok.
Mostly are unaware or don't understand, other just don't care they "have nothing to hide"
Were you expecting anything better from zuck lmao?
yes, very threadtening design indeed.
💀💀💀
What, you don't see why a Twitter-esque app would need access to your Health and Fitness data?
/s
"sensitive info"
Unfortunately, rejecting WhatsApp is probably one of the most socially isolating decisions I've ever made.
mildly infuriating?! That’s a mild understatement.
I never understood why people prefer threads over Mastodon or Lemmy. Their app bundle size is so much smaller. 250mb for an app that does similar to what Mastodon and Lemmy is doing is ridiculous
People like self-promotion and the chance of getting millions of views for your latest post. The Fediverse is like a nerdy book club in comparison (which is why I'm here).
"Mastodon never caught on in the interwebs because all the nobodies see themselves as temporarily embarrassed influencers" - John Steinbeck
But threads is in the fediverse
AFAIK not yet
Confirmed, unless they have done it in the past few days, not yet. TechCrunch quoted the head of Instagram as saying that they haven't implemented ActivityPub yet. There was no specific reason why not, and no timeline for adding that functionality. I think we have at least a few months, since there are a lot of other missing features that should be higher on the to-do list.
Selected servers only some day in the future (maybe) to keep the EU regulators breathing to their necks.
Wait, are there people who aren't advertisers who do prefer Threads over Mastodon or Lemmy? Most of the reviews I have seen are bad, and the good ones seem to be from people who haven't tried the fediverse, though I couldn't swear to that.
Threads is just another gimmicky clone of Twitter, there is not new or interesting about it plus it collects all your personal data.
people love data collection, tho; just makes them feel like a part of something
People signed up for Threads because it was "the hot new thing," not because people wanted their data to be collected. I bet most users don't even realise how much data is being collected from them.
It's Meta/Facebook. If people don't at least strongly suspect that they'll collect as much personal data as they possibly can, they're living behind the moon.
You underestimate how uninformed people are.
Apple has a page up outlining what each area collects and shares: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/#data-type
How is it that there is not an app that is a container and you can run apps in that container and anything running in that container can't access any data outside if the container.
Maybe even the container mocks up data to make your profile look complete.
Later Android versions do support this... It's just called Multiple users (or a work profile but I think you need Google Workspace to set that up).
You can set up a new user as a sandbox for these types of apps and shut them down when not in use.
Because you can't write apps like that. You don't have that level of access.
GraphineOS works much like this.
I think the reason Andoid doesn't implement it is because they want to be able to sell user data as much as anyone else.
Hopefully they'll eventually support more devices.
Probably not on the roadmap, pixels are just really easy to mod
It's pretty common place for organisations with a BYOD policy on they phones to have corporate apps running in a seperate environment.
I have seperate Files, Play store, etc in my work environment. The work Files app can't see my personal data, and my personal Files app can't see my work data. I'm not sure how it's implemented but it seems to be working.
It's Facebook, what did you expect.
They just want to know everything you’ve ever done or thought about nbd.
I've read they are even blocking EU citizens using it via VPN now. Thanks for your hard work I guess.
App Privacy: No
How does this compare to Twitter?
What's with the app size....
I think the current app was rushed which lead to huge app size. Once they have enough time, the Dev's can decrease the size through
But they'll never get that time
I keep getting notifications that my Instagram followers wanna follow me on Threads, but I refuse to use it until they enable the website so I can control the data they learn about me.
So you use Instagramm but are concerned that Threads collects too much data? Next you are going to tell me that you don't use Facebook because you don't trust the company behind it?
Sigh, I just realized after I posted this comment that Instagram collects the same data as Threads. I am a dumb dumb.
I stopped using Facebook on my phone because of the drain it had on battery. I have a new phone which manages it better and it's back on my phone again, but, like, who even uses FB these days ahead of other apps? Anyway, I still use it for birthdays (which is why I had Frost installed before Facebook broke it), but I miss the days you could just add Facebook birthdays to Google Calendar. Facebook killed that too.
because of the drain it had on battery.
The mobile site is better for battery than the app.
Yup, Frost was just a wrapper for the mobile site, but it had notifications, dark theme and other trimmings and barely used battery vs. the official app. I've been keeping an eye on the official FB app's battery usage on the new phone and so far in the space of 40% used since I charged my phone to 80% in the morning (with it being 8pm now), there has been no battery consumption from FB at all. This is much better than it used to be. I'm sure when I actively use it it will drain more, but I don't use it really, only if someone sends me a link or if I need to check birthdays.
It's the background usage before that was killing me.
Ah, interesting, I didn't know about Frost. The mobile site has notifications natively though, as long as you're on a platform that supports web notifications (essentially, everything except iOS)
Ah yeah much more common now, yet I prefer the customisable nature of wrapper notifications. At one point Messenger worked in them too. No longer.
They use it through a web browser, meaning it can only access the data the web browser allows.
Instagram is allowed in the EU and Threads is not, suggesting that Threads may be worse for privacy. And it's not easy to convince everyone you know to switch to a different platform.
The reason it isn't allowed in the EU is because the GDPR doesn't allow for data to travel cross app and Threads is directly tied to an Instagram account right now.
I personally wouldn't trust the website, either. It might be possible to block all the direct trackers, but they can learn a lot about you by what you do on the service, from who you follow to how long you spend on the site. If you have an account, you're paying for it in data.
...if you're okay with paying in data, that's your business, not mine, but don't assume blocking trackers is full protection.
Just a tad
I'm curious how they obtain that info. I have a FB account just because sometimes I need it for work. I don't use my real name, I have no friends, and I run it in a sandbox with a VPN and ad blockers. I'd like to know how much of my info they still can access.
It specifies it's from the app, so they have access through the native functionality for that. When you go to install it, it lists the data it accesses, and by downloading and using it, that's how they are given permission.
Protip: Don't use the app
Some of those categories of information (location, health, contacts for example) require the user to accept on an iOS prompt. The app won’t be given access otherwise. Apple are usually pretty strict about apps only asking for those permissions if there’s a valid reason. I’m curious to know what they would be though.
I still won’t be using the app.
Make a GDPR request for all your data?
They don’t. I mean not in a “oh trust Meta way”, obviously don’t, but…
These privacy cards are self reported by the developers and have nothing to do with enforced API or data access. Obviously not reporting something like identity while asking for the user’s real name on the first screen is likely to be noticed by AppStore review, but it’s just as possible for a developer to check every box to cover their ass (what Meta likely does since let’s be honest they do vacuum up everything you type into the app at a minimum) as it is for a developer to check no boxes and still be collecting various bits of info. Which is of course why things like HealthKit actually have on device permission screens and need access confirmed by the user directly.
And of course a user giving or not giving direct permission is very likely used in any fingerprinting that they’re doing
Also don’t you get a pop up on iOS when apps actually try to do one of these things? Like I have weather apps that clearly say that track my location, but it still gives a pop up asking to use your location when you actually start using it.
threads is a great way to ban anyone who doesn't think just like me. And i know what to think because the mainstream media tells me how to think
I think I agree
That's kind of an understatement, eh?
Why is your phone a square
ya think? :ρ
Last one: the rest of the fucking owl.
At least when its federated, you can still communicate with your friends who have Threads, without you having to deal with how invasive Meta is.
Possibly. Apparently there are some possible issues with interconnection between instance admins that would give Threads information your local instance has about you. I understand that there are ways to change the code so that doesn't happen, but as of right now, there's more risk of data transfer than just posts/comments.
...Wayyyyy less than if you actually install their app, of course. But there's room for improvement.
I wonder what is "others" in this case 🤔...
I mean, it belongs to Meta where you expecting anything else really?
A bit? They aren't even trying to respect your privacy or wishes. Zuckerberg is a reptile asshole
A smidgeon maybe.
I think we've understood that now.
as a cs student (with no app dev experience so take it with a grain of salt) many, not all, permissions seem reasonable.
EDIT: While all of them are definitely used for ads, these are most probably for the algorithm:
Location
User Content
Search History
Browsing History
Usage Data
For profile:
Contact Info
For suggestions: Contacts
Purely ads: Health & Fitness
Purchases
Financial Info
Identifiers
Sensitive Info
Other Data
That's why i said many, not all
As an European citizen, the app is so invasive that it can't operate in the EU.
Yeah I have a US Apple/Appstore account but live in the Netherlands and it was working for me for about a week but now they've cut off access to everything in the app but the main feed. I'm guessing it's because of my EU IP and them realizing people like me still had access.
An app that lets you post texts to a set of followers does not need, for example, health data access.
They may wanna know when you plan on dying... I mean, it is possibility... so, you know, they could warn you.
"Looks like you have a suicide scheduled at 10. Here are some tips I found on the internet!"
Calm down there Clippy.
God I hated that little shit...
Thanks ChatGPT
Now write hello world in rust wit pirate slang and comments one last time 🥹.
@0x4E4F@lemmy.fmhy.ml checked in as dead after a recent disaster
Yep, practical real world use, right there 👍👍👍.
There’s probably only like 5 permissions there the app needs to run (and some of those like diagnostics certainly are not needed but I can understand why they might want that)
These aren’t permission they’re how they use your data
Keep studying.
Well as a former engineer with 15 years experience, the ONLY thing reasonable is the user content one, and ONLY if you intend to post pics straight from the device.
Sometimes you need permissions for weird stuff, because the weird stuff provides a backdoor way to do the thing the permission is meant to stop you doing. Want to let the user switch sound to and from their Bluetooth headsets? Better get the "Location" permission, because you can leverage the Bluetooth API to talk to positional beacons that could tell you where the user is!