Biden supporters mostly back him in 2024 election because they oppose Trump, poll finds
2y 17d ago by lemmy.world/u/return2ozma in news from www.theguardian.com
Ranked Choice Voting! Find your local RCV group and find ways to help get RCV implemented in your city! It’s something that sees opposition from republicans and democrats so you know it’s good.
I'm a fan of STAR voting myself, but anything is better than the first past the post system we have now.
It would be nice if they did that for the Democratic primaries.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
As you should be as this is part of the reason why Ttump got elected in the first place.
They did not override that one. Sanders did not even win the non superdelegates. That's not to say the 2016 Democratic primary was not fucked. Party officials clearly had a preference and were obviously pushing Clinton. Showing the super delegates planned counts before they actually voted made it seem like Sanders had no chance. They need to minimize the number of super delegates so that they can only decide really close primaries.
Sanders was crushed by Clinton in the 2016 primary elections. It was clear pretty much from the start that she was going to win. You take away all the super delegates, she still demolishes him. Did they show some favoritism towards her? Sure. Did they call him some bad names in private emails? Yes. Did she get a few questions before a debate? Yes. Is there any evidence that the election was rigged and stolen from Sanders? No, none at all.
This insistence that the Sanders was somehow robbed of the 2016 nomination (or 2020 nomination at that) is equivalent to Trump's claim that he was robbed in 2020.
The DNC heavily undermined and consistently sabotaged Bernie's campaign the point that the DNC chair stepped down and the DNC then apologized "for the inexcusable remarks made over email" that did not reflect the DNC's "steadfast commitment to neutrality during the nominating process." (From the wikipedia link below).
From the 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak: In the emails, DNC staffers derided the Sanders campaign. The Washington Post reported: "Many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign."
Bernie was absolutely robbed of a fair primary election.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak
The DNC heavily undermined and consistently sabotaged Bernie’s campaign the point that the DNC chair stepped down and the DNC then apologized “for the inexcusable remarks made over email” that did not reflect the DNC’s “steadfast commitment to neutrality during the nominating process.”
We all know and agree that they said bad things about him, but do you really think making "inexcusable remarks" in private actually supports the claim that he was "heavily undermined and consistently sabotaged"?
Bernie was absolutely robbed of a fair primary election.
The only "concrete" thing you cite is that "they said nasty things about him in private." No actual evidence of them doing anything to undermine his chances. The worst concrete thing that came out is that Clinton got some debate questions early, but do we really think that is going to lead to a 12 point swing? No way.
Convenient you skip over the undermine his campaign portion of my previous comment. But the fact that the Chair of the DNC resigned over it shows it was more than just saying "nasty things about him in private".
It should also be noted that their actions "caused significant harm to the Clinton campaign, and have been cited as a potential contributing factor to her loss in the general election". It is not as inconsequential as you present it.
Convenient you skip over the undermine
Because it offered nothing concrete. It just says the emails "suggest" this, but doesn't actually offer up anything of substance as to how it was done.
But the fact that the Chair of the DNC resigned over it shows it was more than just saying “nasty things about him in private”.
And yet, all you can point to is them saying nasty things in private.
It should also be noted that their actions “caused significant harm to the Clinton campaign, and have been cited as a potential contributing factor to her loss in the general election”. It is not as inconsequential as you present it.
I'm challenging the belief that Sanders had some chance in the 2016 primary against Clinton, and that there is good reason to believe it was stolen from him. I understand that the leaked emails were massively consequential.
And that there is good reason to believe it was stolen from him
Have you read your other replies? Thats not the understanding I got from them.
Is there any evidence that the election was rigged and stolen from Sanders? No, none at all.
This insistence that the Sanders was somehow robbed of the 2016 nomination (or 2020 nomination at that) is equivalent to Trump’s claim that he was robbed in 2020.
It was literally the central theme of my initial post to you, and explicitly stated.
From the 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak:
From the Kremlin hacking operation that passed both true and false info to Assange who said in a memo that they wanted Treason Trump to win which was documented in the Mueller report.
Why did Putin NOT leak RNC memos? Because he has been blackmailing the Republican Party ever since.
America is not a progressive country and if you are progressive you will be eternally disappointed with it.
Read more history if you disagree.
Can we please not continue to relitigate this until the end of time? We will be in line at the republican death camps and people will still be arguing that sanders won in 2016. It serves no purpose other than supporting the idiots who would rather a republican win than a democrat who isn't Sanders.
When they start screaming stop the count or restart the count or whatever: Smile, nod, and ignore.
I don't really think I'm going to convince that poster. I know, like Trump supporters, they are probably long gone and no amount of pointing out that they have no evidence is going to convince them that the DNC not screwed him, Sanders would have won. I just watch young people shifting towards the right, and it's probably partially because of these dopes spreading this lie about the democrats, so I'm speaking to anyone who might come after them.
I doubt being grumpy about Sanders is going to shift folk to be right-wing. A lot of them probably HAVE become tankies but... the Sanders campaign was already very heavily buoyed by tankies online. Because it would have been shooting fish in a barrel for the candidate most known for "fun nicknames" to be up against a guy who used to be a meme about how c-span was boring and actively refused to even say "While I think the socioeconomic model had a lot of benefits, I oppose the fascist communist regimes of olde".
But also? I know a few of the dumbest "Bernie or bust" morons you will ever see who focused that anger toward working with the Democrats to get considerably less shitty downballot candidates. And that is what the lesson should have been.
I doubt being grumpy about Sanders is going to shift folk to be right-wing.
It certainly turns them off of the Democrats. So maybe not a shift to the right, but certainly conditions where it increases the chance that the right is going to win. If Bernie bros had just accepted the outcome and then coalesced around Clinton, she likely would have won and we wouldn't be in the same mess we're in now.
So you’re saying the DNC’s actions undermining the primary election had real consequences? Or are those consequences not concrete enough?
Or are you saying we should accept their schemes, offer no consequences or criticism and just blindly follow?
Cause I certainly agree that we likely wouldn’t be in the current situation if the DNC had been above board and true to their role.
So you’re saying the DNC’s actions undermining the primary election had real consequences?
No. I made my argument was clear from the start, you even initially argued against my actual point, and I just restated here. And now you are dishonestly trying to spin the argument into something else.
I guess you realize that you've got nothing, which is why you are so desperate to make it about something else now.
Your initial statement was clear but your subsequent comments across threads have not been.
It went from the primary was clear and upstanding, to there’s good reason to doubt the results, to it having no real effect other than some nasty words spoken, to it costing Hilary the election.
Which one is your actual point?
I've now made it explicitly clear what my point is at least 3 times. And you're still trying to make the argument about something else. Amazing.
You can admit you might be wrong, my friend. I was too about this for a while. The important thing is to learn and grow.
You’ve claimed several points that conflict and when asked directly what your point is you talk around it.
My point was Bernie got cheated out of that primary election
Your point was that the primary was above board and there was no reason to question it
Then you later agreed that there was good reason to question it
And now your point is that your point is clear?
The people who are dumb enough to have a life long grudge because one candidate they liked didn't get the nomination were never going to support the party to begin with. The moment ANY candidate was not exactly what they wanted they were going to throw a hissy and run away.
Because... they are not leftists or even left leaning. They are just spoiled children who decided they wanted something and are now mad they didn't get it. If they actually cared about politics or social issues, rather than what the hasans of the world say on stream, they would be angrily voting for Biden anyway.
The people who are dumb enough to have a life long grudge because one candidate they liked didn’t get the nomination were never going to support the party to begin with.
The poster is claiming that the DNC rigged the election against Sanders, or at least were so unfair that it's fair to say he might have won otherwise. If people believe they are actually this corrupt, it will turn people off from the party. I've already stated that this is not about the dopes who have convinced themselves, with no evidence, that he actually got screwed. This is about stopping other people from falling for the lie.
Again, if they are dumb enough to believe that the DNC actively sabotaged the party because Reasons then they would otherwise be dumb enough to consider themselves "moderate" or "apolitical" under any other context.
At which point... it doesn't matter. Someone who is going to refuse to vote because 12 years ago jet fuel didn't melt steel beams or whatever are going to refuse to vote because "my vote doesn't matter" or "this candidate is too old" or whatever. And they are the kind of voters who are swayed by the strongman bullshit anyway.
Anyone who ACTUALLY cares about politics and social issues are going to vote along those lines. We won't like it but we will. And the rest? They are just as easily won over by one snazzy commercial before a pewdiepie video. And then they still won't bother to vote because they are angry that they were asked to pick a political party when they renewed their driver's license ten years ago.
All engaging the stupidity does is legitimize it.
Projection at its finest.
When you actually offer up something other than "they said nasty things about him!" then we can talk. So far tho, nothing.
Hey look, more liberals blatantly lying about how shit and corrupt their party is!
And you've provided. . .oh look! Nothing!
Providing nothing is better than providing blatant lies :3
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
That is some Trumpian level of bullshit. They cannot do that because it is against the Charter since the 1950's. And yes legally the DNC could change their own charter but so can the RNC. Changing party charters to nullify primaries would spell certain doom for that party.
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
You and the Kremlin are bitter about how the Dem primary voters treated us Bernie supporters in the 2016 election. Got it.
I was curious about this. Since political parties run their own primaries, then they can decide to use whatever voting system they want. I suspect that RCV primaries would produce a candidate that is more competitive in the general election (though I don't know enough about electoral math or demographics to be sure). I'm certain that RCV has a tendency to discourage scorched earth campaign tactics, so party candidates would be less prone to trying to destroy one another.
My city does ranked choice voting, and it's great! I would love to see it at the state level.
Ranked choice doesn't really help here. Generally right-wing/conservative/wannabe-gilead voters aggregate around the republican candidate. Libertarians get stupid but there are very few of them and they start off stupid.
On the left? We have a LOT more infighting but the only viable candidates at the Presidential level (and most, but not all, states) are the Democrat.
So what does ranked choice get us? Okay, everyone picks their favorite third party first. They all get eliminated. So who voted for the Democrat and who voted for the republican?
It also becomes a question of what variation of ranked choice voting is used. Because, depending on the elimination model, you are just normalizing spoiler candidates.
And... there is the very good argument that we already have ranked choice voting in a sense. Primaries. it happens less when there is an incumbent but everyone picks their absolute favorite candidate who most closely represents them. The majority of that then becomes the candidate we vote for come November.
Nah, I think the real answer is to just get rid of the electorcal college at the presidential level and just do popular votes. We have the technology.
I'll also add on that there is a lot of theory (and even demonstrable-ish evidence) that you tend to consolidate around two-ish candidates even in the models that are fairly amenable to third parties. There are a LOT of question marks because this isn't the kind of study you can really isolate, but even the third party heavy models (most parliamentary governments, for example) tend to have two dominating parties with a third or fourth that are "just strong enough to get concessions".
Of course it helps. Sure, the first election wouldn’t see much change, but RCV emboldens third parties to exist and would give them a viable path towards displacing the establishment. Right now there is NO path.
Reforming the electoral college is definitely needed as well, but a much longer runway since it likely requires a constitutional amendment. You can implement RCV without forgoing electoral college reform or abolition. No single change will fix it all, but RCV is beneficial in moving towards democracy and has a lot of momentum already.
I think after people learn and get used to RCV (and when older generations die), their voting styles will change. No more voting solely out of fear. It also requires the major (wealthy) candidates to align more to the smaller (less wealthy) candidates. There's really no reason to be against it. In some states they offer both styles of ballots so you can just vote for one person if you'd like. The only downside is that it can be confusing to new people.
None of that addresses the points I made outside of a nebulous "wouldn't it be great if all the boomers died" which... no arguments.
Again, it all depends on what criteria are used to handle the rankings. Because a LOT of models will inherently favor the "side" that can rally behind a single candidate. Which is what we see under a lot of parliamentary models.
I am ALL for election reform. But "it can't hurt" is not a reason to enact a heavy change. Especially when... it CAN hurt and discriminate against different demographics.
As for "the only downside is that it can be confusing to new people": You should HANG with my buddy CHAD. Still hurting from that debacle.
Wasn’t trying to address your points because they’re just speculation. We’ve never had RCV nationwide for federal elections so can’t say how it would affect the way people vote. I don’t think the 2 party ruling system goes away with RCV, but it’s a step towards making politics more equitable. There are only benefits to giving voters more options. It’s not that “it can’t hurt”. It’s that it will benefit voters.
How does RCV discriminate? Which demographics?
Any voting system is prone to errors and any change will have growing pains. Doesn’t mean you don’t move forward. People need a way to vote for who they want, not who they don’t want. RCV is one solution. Doesn’t impede on any others.
If we "can't say how it would affect the way people vote" then what is the point? There are a lot of different voting systems and if you are going to put the effort in to cause a mass upheaval... you need to have a reason. Like I said, I very much favor just getting rid of the electoral college as a good solution because it is the same procedure we currently have but now it means EVERY vote matters at every level (rather than just at every level except POTUS...)
And, again, we can just look at the current election. Basically every republican is fine with trumpian politics and refuse to even acknowledge they would vote against the orange fuckstain when they are "condemning" his behavior. Whereas the left? We can't stop shitting on Biden. That translates to third party spoilers. Which is kind of the underlying issue of why we see right wing fascism on the rise globally. Because it is a lot easier to rally behind "We all hate this demographic" rather than "Well, I want UBI" "No, I want health care" "Fuck you all, the biggest issue we have is foreign policy".
Any voting system is prone to errors and any change will have growing pains. Doesn’t mean you don’t move forward. People need a way to vote for who they want, not who they don’t want. RCV is one solution. Doesn’t impede on any others.
Moving forward is something you do with thought. Rather than "Well, I'm bored. Let's redo everything because it might be better".
To assume that all of the progress people are making towards RCV is without thought is incredibly ignorant. Lots of resources you can research to understand the benefits, how it works, and case studies for where it’s working now.
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting-information/#the-impacts-of-rcv
https://fairvote.org/news-and-analysis/#blog
If you don’t support RCV for some reason, just say that. You have to criticize those who are working towards something that’s actually benefiting voters.
You can sit around and wait for electoral reform, but change happens in baby steps. You don’t just jump to a constitutional amendment if nobody can get behind something like RCV.
Yeah. This happens with basically every "political movement". You have some people who actually have put the thought in. And then you have hordes of people who can't even explain simple things like "how does this not just embolden spoilers" or how does this meaningfully solve the two party problem" (a problem which, again, is prevalent even in more praised election systems).
Let alone "Oh, the only problem is people might get a bit confused"
People just see "oh, it is different so it must be better" and ignore all other aspects of it. It is what led to the rise of libertarianism in the 90s and tankie dumbasses in the 10s.
We all know you only want far right neolibs to be president, you don't have to try to be sly about your conservatism :3
I think ranked choice voting would give us RFK as president
Edit: that was assuming we had these same candidates only as ranked choice obviously we would have more candidates
It's stunning that each party managed to find a candidate that could lose against the other.
The existence of Project 2025 makes all of the "which candidate is better?" discussion completely irrelevant. If you support the people that support Project 2025 then you're a bootlicker who wants to end popular representation in the government and replace it with authoritarianism. If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
Any other option is better.
I think Trump retiring and the Republicans replacing him with a charismatic, young, intelligent christofascist would be devastating for the Democrats (and humanity) right now and I don't know why they don't do it.
For that matter I don't see why Democrats don't replace Biden with a charismatic, young, intelligent social democrat which would be equally devastating for republicans. So who knows with these people.
This is the current state of US politics - it's more about who you're against than who you're for, and I firmly believe this is the reason why no scandals seem to matter anymore.
On the conservative side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Biden and the Democrats are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an (R) next to their name is fine. It's probably how Trump of all people became the party leader.
We desperately need it if we want reasonable candidates again.
I’m against all these assholes taking bribes from whoever they can and above all else ignoring the needs of their constituents. Recall them all!
On the progressive side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Trump and the Republicans are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an D next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
Sure, if you ignore all the progressives who hate Biden and protest his handling of Palestine constantly, you can pretend that both sides are lockstep behind dear leader.
Read through the comments here. People who don't act like Blue MAGA sycophants are treated like heretics.
No, I see actual leftists criticise Biden all the time and get upvoted and praised. It's only the marxist-liberals who get in trouble for criticising Biden, and it's because they do it in the most counterproductive liberal way possible.
Time will tell if those people will still vote for Biden or if their hatred will be reflected in how they vote.
But you’re still going to vote for him right?
Nope, you'll never catch a marxist-liberalist actually doing anything productive. They believe in order to be a good leftist you have to do nothing. Because if you do something, and it's not perfect, you're a bad person.
You've clearly never asked a progressive how they feel about the Democrat party.
the Democrat party.
This is how an archconservative refers to the Democratic Party
Its "Democratic Party".
We dont call the opponents "Republic Party"
Republicans started saying this to disassociate the party from the word "democracy"
And also because it ends with "rat" which has negative connotations
Actions speak louder than words. Who do these progressives keep voting for?
The only non-fascists who have a chance at winning. Progressives didn't pick our first past the post election formula.
My comment and this thread has nothing to do with rightly or wrongly voting for anyone. Nor does it have anything to do with how anyone should justify their vote.
I only reinforced the claim that anyone with a "D" next to their name is "fine enough" for progressives to vote for. A claim that you initially disagreed with, but are now proving to be true.
I am unsure as to why a progressive would ever vote Republican. Progressives cannot politically exist on their own in this two-party system. They have to adopt one party or the other. Since the Republican party is completely and absolutely opposed to anything a progressive would believe in, they adopted the one party that has a minor shot at enacting policies they adhere to. There is no doubt they would likely vote D all the way down the ballot in every election. It's the only opportunity at policy progression they have. It has been this way for a while so this claim isn't some new prediction or revelation.
I only reinforced the claim that anyone with a “D” next to their name is “fine enough” for progressives to vote for.
Maybe listen to Bernie when he said that any Dem is "200x" better than any Republican candidate for president. I have never known Bernie to be wrong about anything.
If Biden was full of bravado around breaking the government so we wouldn't have more elections like Trump I wouldn't vote for him either. It's not about the D or the R. It's about the choice that most likely to lead to a peaceful transfer of power in the next election. There are no good options but I choose the one that's going to allow future, hopefully better, choices.
One of the biggest factors that makes Republicans fascish is the way they use any power they're given to entrench their positions, something democrats also do a little, but much less than Republicans. Voting for a party you're less than happy with to keep the much worse party from permanent power is a much more practical and thought-out position than "blue no matter who" would have you believe. It's disingenuous to liken that to the largely false fear-mongering the right wing media bubble does to convince their voters that the conservative Democrat Joe Biden wants to turn America communist.
Exactly. I was just using the conservative side as my example because the post topic was already covering the progressive side.
boTh SIdes aRe The sAMe!!!
boTh SIdes aRe The sAMe!!!
Yep. The GOP is waging a War on Democracy and Dems have been using the wrong brand of mustard.
It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
That and getting the most primary votes.
"People voting for watching paint dry instead of poking sticks in their eyes appear to be mostly motivated by avoiding sticks...in their eyes."
That was also true in 2020. And in 2016 for Hillary.
I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I'm far more left than any of them have ever been), but I've always voted for them, because they're far better than the other option. This time they're just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that's not saying much, but hey, it's better than nothing. He's just killing himself by supporting Israel.
Isn't this the general sad state of democracy? Specially in America and it's 2 party system?
Rarely people get to vote for whom they want, they vote against the one they dislike/fear the most
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."
Biden has not been as bad as I expected him to be, but he is out of touch with the average American. Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65. But I'll take him over the convicted felon.
I mean no shit.
In other news, water is wet.
No shit. That’s been his whole platform from the beginning.
Anyone who who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job.
ETA: Anyone downvoting this is not a hoopy frood
Yeah no kidding. Why else would anybody vote for the dude?
The only reason I'm voting for him is that he's not trump.
I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against trump
Good thing they conducted a poll to figure this out
I thought this was an Onion article at first. Of course most people voting Biden are only doing so because the only other option is convicted felon Donald Trump.
Biden is a loser president in a loser system. But if the option is him or Insurrectionist/Felon/Rapist Donald Trump, it is the option people will vote for.
This must be some in-depth research to arrive at this conclusion
There's never been more evidence that we need to change voting systems in the US. We'll continue to pick the lesser of two evils until that happens.
And it won't, because both parties collectively have a stranglehold on the realisticness of such a change.
Sometimes I wish my competitors were as stupid and unsympathetic as Trump.
It's the exact same sentiment as the 2020 election.
Man who closed the deal with 43k votes out of 5.7M across three pivotal states happy to report he has well over 80% of his original voter base behind him.
Support? Or begrudgingly vote for him?
No shit! That's our fucking election system. After the primaries, we wind up withtwo candidates that most people don't like, and we vote against the one we think is worse. It's been this way for a very long time. Case in point:
https://youtu.be/riDypP1KfOU?si=xwlInd1CS9p7rYcT
Acting like this is shocking news is disingenuous bullshit.
Yeah it sucks I have to vote for Biden because that conservative doctrine sounds scary as all hell, and Trump is a felon. I'm looking for a president that at the very least pretends to care about the environment, and that is not Trump who is an oil company stooge.
I'm not American but the list of things I would support over Trump is not small.
In other news, water is wet.
I get the feeling Trumpers would have trouble comprehending this. Trumpers are in a straight up cult and I'm guessing it kindof doesn't compute that the majority of Biden voters kinda hate him and vote for Biden in spite of that.
surprising nobody
While reading this headline I began thinking to myself "Duh, of course they did. -Why even bother publishing a story like this. It doesn't even serve any valuab... ohhhh, right."
Shits mostly are none, Sherlock finds.
"Popular men, tey must create strange monsters, and then quell 'hem ; to make their artes seeme something. "
American democracy is cooked lmao
To the surprise of…?
Yes
If Biden loses, which i think he will, i hope the Dems take it as a reflection opportunity and actually field someone who people like in 2028.
if there is an election in 2028
Edit: if you're going to downvote, at least reply explaining why
Yes, vote for your preferred candidate.
That is voting.
Stunning article.
Oh look, the troll is back. It was so peaceful for awhile....
I'm voting Biden because Putin said he preferred Biden as he is more predictable.
Jill Stein 2024
Biden won 2020 in spite of being Joe Biden, it's why it took almost 40 years for him to win his first presidential primary, people just don't ot want him as president.
Now that we've had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected...
I really don't think he can pull out another razor thin win like in 2020.
We're risking trump so we can have a Dem president that's more conservative than Dem voters want.
There's no logic behind it, except the donor class would rather have trump than a progressive. And just like AIPAC, they decided it's easiest to just buy both parties in the primary.
This is the third election and a row, it's not going to be different in 2028. If voters only requirement is "blue" then nothing is stopping either party from getting more and more conservative every election
How was Biden worse than expected?
Doesn't matter, all parent commenter needs to do is say it, and it's true!
I think he'd be worse if you expected him to not support Israel do a genocide, but if you expected that you should have read up on his positions and, frankly, the last 70 years of United States foreign policy.
Expecting or not doesnt affect being bad or not
Totally. But this is about wether he's below or above expectations. If your expectations were low then it stands to reason the bad things could match your expectations.
My bad i forgot expectations was the question asked
"Worse than expected," depends largely on the individual and what they were expecting. It comes down to expecting one thing and being disappointed in the outcome.
People who expected him to be an ally of immigrants are disappointed in his border policies.
People who expected him to fix Trumps "easy" trade wars are disappointed in his trade policies.
People who expected him to support labor are disappointed in his ban of the railroad workers strike.
People who expected him to champion human rights are disappointed in his support of the IDF.
He may have met your expectations and the expectations of the majority of Democrats. Biden's 2020 victory depended on several groups who only showed up because they hoped that he would address their specific concerns.
-Union strike busting
-Climate acceleration, more highways, more trucks and SUV's, banning affordable EVs
-Increased defense spending
-Higher deportations and now executive order asylum closing
-Renewed oil and gas leasing on federal lands, and weird restriction on leasing federal lands for renewable energy that more oil and gas leasing has to happen first
-The longest stretch of no minimum wage increase ever.
-rampant inflation
-lack of prosecution for a ton of crimes from Trump and other republicans
-no effort against Americas problem of gun violence
-campaigned on fixing a gap in subsidy coverage for health insurance for the lowest earning Americans, with no mention since
Not even mentioning the biggest problem people have with them, plenty of people have told you already.
Roe v. Wade was overturned under his mandate period as well. Sure it’s a Supreme Court decision, and the SC is mostly republican but it’s not like Biden couldn’t have pushed harder. He could, but then he wouldn’t be able to campaign on it.
“Vote for me and I’ll return some rights to people, maybe.”
Yes, it's all the Democrats' fault that six Republican appointed justices overturned Roe.
Bullshit.
It is absolutely their fault there are more Republicans in the Supreme Court. Justices aren't naturally occurring by unpredictable Acts of God.
It is also RBG's fault, while we're at it.
Your RGB point is the first one of merit. Sure should have left at an advantageous time.
The judges were appointed by a majority Republican Congress with a republican president. In what way could democrats stop it?
Scalia died almost a full year before Obama left office. That was his appointment, but the Dems didn't bother putting up a fight because they were convinced Clinton would be the next president and wanted to focus on the election. Then in freaking late October 2020, days before the election, they once again allowed another Trump appointment without putting up any sort of fight or stall tactic because they didn't want to rock the boat before the election.
The majority republican congress and the republican president are also their fault. They're pretty much the only ones running against them.
So more people should have voted Democrat, despite misgivings, to avoid a worse outcome that comes from not voting Democrat.
It's a two-party system, those are your choices.
The party should have fielded better candidates instead of constantly pushing candidates that appeal to right-wing voters who would never even vote for them to begin with.
When the farther right candidate wins, that's the direction they go. It sucks, but they're going to follow the voters.
Seems that's the only direction they go since all their wealthy donors prefer it that way which is why we keep getting status quo "business as usual" candidates like Clinton and Biden getting all the party support, while progressive candidates get sidelined, get excluded from debates, get zero media coverage, get treated like lunatics, etc.
If you think voters are "getting what they want" then you haven't been paying attention to politics in this country.
That is exactly the kind of dogshit strategy that disenfranchises voters, loses elections and gives republicans a majority.
What "strategy?" That's what the system is. It's a two-party system, inherently.
You have two candidates to pick from. You either pick the candidate who is closer to your ideals or you pick the candidate that's farther away from your ideals. If you don't vote or you vote for a "third party" candidate then you're just throwing your choice away and abdicating it to those who do vote for one of those two options.
If you want it to be different from that then the fundamental voting system itself needs to be changed. The current one that America operates under inevitably becomes two-party. CPG Grey did a video a few years ago explaining why this is so.
Banking on voters picking the least terrible option instead of giving them actual reasons to vote is a dogshit strategy that disenfranchises voters, loses elections, and gives republicans a majority. That dogshit strategy.
"Picking the least terrible option" is a reason to vote. It's the only one that the system allows for.
Relying on that is a dogshit strategy that disenfranchises voters, loses elections, and gives republicans a majority
Again, it's not a choice to rely on that. It's the physics of the system. There is no other practical way to contest an election in the United States. It's a first-past-the-post electoral system.
There. Are. Two. Candidates.
Only two. You pick from those two. One of them will likely be closer to your ideals, the other will be farther away from your ideals. Pick one. Which one do you pick? The one closer to your ideals, or the one farther away?
Or will you decide not to vote at all and just let everyone else pick for you? How is that a better strategy? You still get one of those two candidates.
Enjoy your republican majority and good luck with the coup.
I'm not American, I'm writing all this as an external observer.
What alternative do you propose to voting Democrat?
Support local grassroots pro-working class political movements and candidates instead of voting for the least worse ghoul every 4 years? Find the local chapter of whatever you think is better? Get involved for a cause that both parties are actively harming ? Demand, by any means available, elected officials to not be pieces of shit if they want your vote? Maybe just stop defending genocide support on the internet because it makes our guy look bad.
Putting your vote behind someone you believe to be detrimental to your own values should not be the default position and is, at best, the worst case scenario. Screw the two US parties and everything they stand for.
Did you watch that CPG Grey video I linked to earlier? Voting third party is the same as not voting under the American electoral system. It's basic game theory. So your alternative to voting Democrat boils down to "do nothing."
cgpgreys video does not say it's the same as not voting
Yeah, he says it's worse than not voting because it's soaking up votes that in absence of the third party would have gone to the "least worse" of the two actually viable parties. I was being generous and assuming OP wasn't going to vote for that party anyway.
his charcterization isn't scientific fact. it is opinion.
It is fact, actually. This is a result of basic game theory. First-past-the-post electoral systems inexorably develop into two-party systems because of the mechanism that he describes, in the same way that gas inexorably diffuses or water flows downhill.
Insisting that it won't happen because you feel like it shouldn't happen just causes you to fall into the traps CPG Grey described.
Insisting that it won’t happen because you feel like it shouldn’t happen
that didn't happen here.
the same way that gas inexorably diffuses or water flows downhill.
no, those can be calculated and predicted. the same isn't true for the rate at which political parties are created or dissolved.
First-past-the-post electoral systems inexorably develop into two-party systems because of the mechanism that he describes
this is the crux of duverger's "law" which is not a law at all but actually a tautology.
game theory assumes that we have rational actors acting in their own best interests. That's not what people do. game theory doesn't predict what people will do.
the video you linked called it strategic voting, and the real takeaway from that video is that strategic voting leads to voters having fewer choices and losing representation.
If they don't vote strategically then they give the advantage to their opponents. The alternative is to take votes away from a party that doesn't quite align with you but could win and give them instead to a party that can't win, resulting in an increased chance of the party that doesn't align with you at all winning.
if I vote for somebody who doesnt align with me I can't win at all.
It's a question of whether you want to win somewhat or lose completely. Democracy is compromise; you're never going to find a candidate that perfectly aligns with your interests.
If you insist that you will only vote for a niche third-party candidate under a system like America's, then you've taken yourself out of the effective voting pool. Now neither of the two candidates who has a chance of winning needs to care about your interests at all.
that's how I felt since I voted for Obama and he didn't close gitmo. so I may as well not support them if they don't care about me.
Because Romney or McCain would have been so much better?
Those were your choices.
I don't vote for imperialists, so they weren't choices either
Then as I've said elsewhere, you're effectively not a part of the voting population and your preferences are not reflected in the results.
so when do I stop getting blamed for what everyone else votes for?
When you use the opportunity you have to cast a vote that could actually make a difference. Instead you're standing on the sidelines doing nothing except signal your virtue.
I'm not joining a club i dont want to be in. characterize me any way you like, and I'll gladly do the same for you.
In that case it's their parents faults for fucking.
It's not their parents fault they're incompetent corrupt pieces of shit. Or maybe it is a little bit, just not as much.
People got confused when he ran on a platform that was "nothing will fundamentally change" and thought that meant he would push all the progressive ideas they wanted /s
And people up above are literally commenting that Biden is "the most progressive leader" we've had in several decades.
Because he's further right than Reagan and Bush Jr.
Because he’s further right than Reagan and Bush Jr.
Those 2 both gave gigantic tax cuts to the rich. Biden raised corporate tax rates. I can remember every president since Nixon and Biden has been the most progressive in my lifetime.
No he didn't. We're still under the tax rates Trump set in 2018 that dropped corporate tax rates to 21% and increased rates for lower and middle class individuals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States#Federal_tax_rates
Biden raised the minimum corporate tax rate from 0% to 15% rather than simply reverse the Trump corporate tax rate reduction.
While the new taxes are “generally not positive for stocks,” the 15% corporate minimum tax won’t be “material,” Wells Fargo analysts wrote in an Aug. 9 research note that called the new taxes “modest.”
Just over 170 companies in the S&P 500 paid less than 15% in taxes last year, according to a new analysis by Credit Suisse. Of those corporations, less than half would likely see a tax hike for 2023 since the legislation allows companies to use adjusted earnings, which can be massaged in a number of ways, the analysis found.
So a very modest increase for roughly 80 companies. Really groundbreaking stuff here.
In passing the bill, they also stripped out universal child care and tax cuts for the middle class. Business as usual it seems. Lots of money for energy companies and health insurance companies and nothing for the working person.
So a very modest increase for roughly 80 companies. Really groundbreaking stuff here.
Enough to significantly reduce the deficits and pays for some social spending and climate change efforts.
This is projected to bring in up to $30B per year. The current deficit for the year is already at $855B and projected to hit $1.6T. Hardly a drop in the bucket.
I won't argue that it's bad these corporations are now paying at least a little bit in taxes, but this is pretty pathetic for some 'landmark' legislation.
Nope. The figure is $3.6 trillion over 10 years.
[The Biden Administration on May 28, 2021, released its fiscal year (FY) 2022 budget...the Biden Administration proposes to increase taxes on the wealthy and corporations and to enhance Internal Revenue Service (IRS) compliance, information and enforcement initiatives, projected to raise $3.6 trillion in revenues over a decade.]
And in the future, another $4 trillion in taxes on the wealthy.
https://taxfoundation.org/blog/biden-tax-increases-2023-budget-proposal/
Your own link from earlier has this right in the header's bullet points in reference to the bill that was actually signed into law not an analysis of a proposal from a year and a half prior:
The more than $430 billion package is expected to reduce the deficit by more than $300 billion over a decade.
The wealthy haven't had their taxes increased so I don't know where this $4T is supposed to come from unless IRS audits are going to find $4T worth of unpaid revenue.
so I don’t know where this $4T is supposed to come from
Because you didn't read the link. It is precisely detailed where it comes from.
Neither did you, apparently, since that link is two years old and says this $4T is a combination of revenue from Biden's BBB plan and tax increases on wealthy individuals, two things that never actually happened. BBB was spun off into the IRA which we already discussed above. Furthermore, even if these things had passed, you're double dipping on these numbers and counting things twice to come out with the figures that you're claiming in your previous post.
Some people think the entire world and everything in it can be changed on a dime. I have to constantly tell people things take time.
A lot of the problems we're facing are not something we can wait on. Climate change is already going to effectively change our life to an unrecognizable extent, even with a Democrat is charge.
Perhaps too many people have grown comforted by the inevitable. I'm still a little panicked, and it doesn't seem like anyone's doing anything to stop it.
A lot of the problems we’re facing are not something we can wait on. Climate change is already going to effectively change our life to an unrecognizable extent,
Then it is a good thing Biden rules and Convicted Felon Treason Trump drools in his diaper.
Did I say we can wait on them? No. I said change takes time. And it does. Can we go out and ask everyone on the planet/US to change out their car for an EV tomorrow? No we can't. Things take time. Sounds like you should have beef with the people that protested voted against Jimmy Carter, against Gore, and against Hillary. We should have moved the needle a long time ago.
And there are still other items to be worked on that people demand, like student debt, the economy, unions, chips act, ukraine, etc. Things take time.
Why are you talking about things taking time as if we're slowly progressing in the right direction? Hell no, we've been moving in the direction of more gas powered truck and SUV sales, more gas production, more highways, all of it promoted by democrats.
First the entire context was "How was Biden worse than expected?" to which I answered that some people think everything can happen on a dime, which they can't because they take time.
Second, we are moving in the right direction. Unprecedented green energy policies, EV incentives, charging infrastructure, pretty sure there was stuff for train building, quick googling says $20.5 Billion for transit funding https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-provide-205-billion-federal-funding-support-transit.Congrats, you showed you are the exact person that thinks the world can all change on a dime.
And some 20 times more than that is going to highways
Two-thirds ($432 billion) of that $643 billion is flowing to conventional highway programs. https://t4america.org/iija/
Meanwhile, gas guzzling SUV sales have skyrocketed recently https://www.theautopian.com/heres-the-exact-year-suv-sales-overtook-sedan-sales-in-america/
As for EV incentives, China has been dominating with EV adoption lately with affordable options. Theyve got a damn 11k brand new EV that is so enticing, the US and EU are banning it from import because it would be too successful here.
Ahh the "not enough!", aka "not fast enough!" You want more? Then vote Dems in consistently and overwhelmingly.
And then the "it's not changing fast enough!". You do realize those are private purchases right? The government can't mandate what people buy.
And then the China tariff. Like it it not they're going to protect American industry from low wage made cars.
So we're basically back to, congrats you just showed you're exactly the "not fast enough!" person. And we are moving in the right direction with, well everything I already listed. You want to move faster? Give Dems overwhelming and consistent victories.
I really think you're missing the point. Not fast enough is not good enough when we're talking about climate change! Yes, we had to take drastic actions yesterday, and the best thing we can do is take drastic actions today. We're just kicking the can down the road, and I don't think there's any road left.
My entire point is that there are certain categories of things in which you do not have time to act, and you must do it quickly and firmly.
No I'm not missing the point. I want it to be done fast, I know that things take time. Saying "not fast enough" is not a valid complaint of Biden or of Dems because the reality of the world is that things take time. And the reality whether you like it or it not, climate change is not even a winning issue. People rank issues as 1 economy 2 inflation 3 in distant third place abortion.
But back to this topic, I really wonder what industry you work in that you think we can flip a switch and the world changes.
Think about this. Want to build a new metro line? Good idea right, it'll reduce car usage. From the day you say "here's money, go", it will take minimum 4 years, more likely minimum 6 years. For a single line. Then you have the other guy complaining "but there are still car sales". No fucking shit, it's not built yet. Things take time whether you like it or not.
So your solution then is just tough luck, deal with it, right? Try to mitigate it, but not enough, really. And just hope it doesn't get too bad too quickly, right?
Don't forget the blind support for the Democratic party. They haven't done much to fix things or even stall Republicans, but if we just reward them some more then they'll start acting in our best interests.
My solution is to vote. Give Dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
When you start putting out silly strawmans you show you're not having a good faith discussion. So I think I'm out.
The original comment was that Democrats are not responding to climate change appropriately.
All I'm saying is that since they're the only ones that we can trust, that they should probably take it more seriously.
Even with Democrats in all branches of government, with our current policies, our planet will be uninhabitable to large populations in warmer countries.
Let's not get it twisted here. If we don't make serious changes now, then we are going to have to suffer the consequences.
No the original comment was "How was Biden worse than expected?"
To which I responded "Some people think the entire world and everything in it can be changed on a dime. I have to constantly tell people things take time."
To which you tried to limit it to climate change.
God why am I bothering when you're making up what this was about.
Even with Democrats in all branches of government, with our current policies,
God why am I bothering. Dems have had control for 4 out of the last 24 years. They can't do what they want because they never have control. If you include Bill Clinton, then it's 6 years of the the last 32 years. Go back further and it's 6 out of the last 44 fucking years. Read that again, 6 out of the last 44 fucking years.
And that can still be filibustered. So if you want the filibuster proof majority, then Obama had it for 4 months. Not years, MONTHS. Dems had filibuster proof control for 4 MONTHS of the last 44 fucking years.
And you wonder why they can't do much? Give your head a shake.
I'm going to give you the history because you seriously need to learn this. Climate change not winning issue. In fact it's losing issue. People lose elections because of this. Again, I want it to be a winning issue, but I think it's a losing issue. Look at the history:
Carter said to turn down your thermostat and wear a sweater. And he was quickly punted from office.
Guess what, Bill Clinton learned that to win he couldn't touch it.
Then Gore said maybe it's time and ran on it. And then Gore lost.
Guess what, Obama learned that to win he couldn't touch it.
Then Hillary Clinton said maybe it's time and ran on it. And then Hillary lost.
Guess what, Biden learned that he couldn't run on that. Frankly it's amazing he's doing anything on it because it's not a winning it's a losing issue. Doing what he did may very well cost him the presidency because Trump will tie it to inflation.
And you wonder why current policies are what they are? Again, give your head a shake. It's incredible they're as progressive as they are. You want it to be even more progressive? Then give Dems consistent and overwhelming victories. Who knows if it'll ever be a winning issue to run on, but if they at least win it can be something they can do on the side.
Let’s not get it twisted here. If we don’t make serious changes now, then we are going to have to suffer the consequences.
JFC why do I bother when you twist what I say, I already said I want things to happen, but I know things take time. Why the fuck do I bother when you act like this. Yeah I'm out, you'll just continue with this twisting. Looking back you've been doing it from the start.
That doesn’t sound like someone who cares about climate change. I
Ah strawman. Guess me saying that I WANT it three times doesn't get through huh. And WOW you go on attacking on that strawman. That's my thanks for explaining things to you huh. I was right, you twist what people say.
So which is it? Other people are saying that if Trump gets reelected, democracy will end instantly.
Seems like "things take time" only when neoliberal Democrats get criticized for their shitty policy.
Progress takes time, effort, and hard work.
Stagnation (or regression) takes fuck all. It takes fuck all effort to block things. The GOP can do that with control of only one of the 3 (house, senate, presidency). Which they've had for 20 of the last 24 years.
It takes fuck all effort to block things. The GOP can do that with control of only one of the 3 (house, senate, presidency). Which they've had for 20 of the last 24 years.
That goes both ways, and yet we've seen Republicans pass all kinds of vile legislation in that time. If "it takes fuck all effort to block things" then why aren't Democrats doing that too?
What the GOP wants is lack of progress. They want to hit the giant pause button on society. They want to block progress from happening. That's why the GOP benefits more from blocking things. What the Dems want is actual progress - new bills, new laws, new measures. That requires legislation to actually pass. So no, it doesn't work both ways.
The most the GOP wants to do is repeal what was already passed, and give tax breaks. It takes fuck all effort to do that. They get one house and they can demand tax breaks or they shut down the government. Or they try to repeal the ACA. They didn't write a well thought out replacement lol, all they want to do is repeal.
To actually write and pass progressive legislation takes a ton of actual work, effort, support, and time. And all 3 houses to pass it.
-
The genocide he's not just supporting, but now actively involving US military in.
-
Making trump border policies permanent law.
-
Not fulfilling campaign promises
But like, please don't do that thing where because I didn't list every little thing, that I'm saying the only issues with Biden are the ones I listed.
I didn’t list every little thing
You listed 3 false things.
Frankly, all of that should have been expected.
If you expected #1 and still voted for him...
I dunno, but at least now people can't act like they don't understand how people voted for hitler.
I expected this shit from republicans, but way too many people who call themselves Dems are just ok with genocide.
Apparently all it took to get Dems to support genocide, is only give them the option of more genocide?
And republicans are all about genocide, so now neither party can be counted on to be consistently against genocide?
What I still don't understand, is why so many of you are just ok with it.
That’s the sound of the Overton window ratcheting to the right, and the democrats locking it in place
The one and only way to move the Overton window to the left is for the GOP to keep losing elections over and over and over.
What I don’t understand is knowing this… you still do your best to rally people to either not vote, or vote third party. Look, it’s a shit system. No one here is cheerleading for it. But because so few people chose to be activists in the off years between elections…
This is what we get when no one cares about politics when it actually matters. No. What we get are single-issue SJWs every election year shouting at everything trying to keep democrat alive while the rest of you whine about… whatever bothers you at the moment. And let’s not even mention the right-wing trolls among you that pretend to support your causes, but are only fanning the flames to prop up their boy.
And after all this… when the smoke clears in November, when the decision is made- ALL of you will disappear and reroll as victims of whatever that decision is.
I don’t understand is knowing this… you still do your best to rally people to either not vote, or vote third party.
And what I don't understand is whether this is to help War Criminal Putin or Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
I guess it doesn't matter it all benefits the same Axis Powers.
The Axis of Evil
Treason Trump - War Criminal Putin - Comrade Xi - Monster King Kim Jong Un
It’s not SJWs that oppose genocide. News flash bud…
Everyone opposes genocide.
You’re not going to get away with your false equivalency here. Just because someone opposes the ignorance required to think that NOT voting will somehow move the needle in a chosen direction- does not mean they support genocide. So stop with this nonsense.
Now, either discuss this like a mature adult without insults, or walk away.
ROFL!
It’s so easy to be outraged when you get to make up the shit that causes it. This shit is absolutely hilarious!
Liberal absolute oppose genocide. What you don’t seem to understand is that- liberals also know that if we don’t keep Trump from winning November- that genocide will actually be MUCH worse. PROVENLY.
So while you fold your arms and throw your temper tantrum over this single issue, the rest of us will try and keep America from becoming a dictatorship.
Lastly, go ahead and say incorrectly that by voting for Biden, it’s supporting genocide. Because with something like Project 2025 existing and NOT voting for the one person that has the chance to stop it- I get to say correctly that you have no cares whatsoever about your fellow Americans that are going to suffer GREATLY at the hands of Trump’s regime.
So again, it’s easy to be outraged when you can just manufacture it from thin air. I’m trying to have a civil discussion with you, but it’s impossible to get past this reductio absurdum you seem to insist on.
No one is supporting genocide here. And there nothing outside of your own head to say otherwise.
What I don’t understand is knowing this… you still do your best to rally people to either not vote, or vote third party
You put that on voters (of which there are millions) but nothing for the DNC or Biden? Maybe 20 people who could give voters what they want?
Why?
What we get are single-issue SJWs
Even while typing this, I know people would still do it...
But like, please don’t do that thing where because I didn’t list every little thing, that I’m saying the only issues with Biden are the ones I listed.
Single issue voters are not a really thing.
But when enough people unify under a common cause, progress can be made. Which is while everytime the common people band together, there's a couple telling them unity is bad, and they should always break apart and only worry about themselves.
MLK had some choice words about people that did that. Malcolm had more than words.
….. okay buddy.
Now that we've had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected...
He far exceeded my expectations.
Everyone has different standards and expectations.
Hell, look at how many people say that about trump.
In which ways? motions to everything being crap
- Massive infrastructure bill
- Student loan forgiveness
- Marijuana rescheduling
There’s plenty more, but my expectation was for him to not be Trump which he has thoroughly succeeded at. The rest is icing.
The biggest things he’s disappointed on, Trump disappoints on too…:
- Palestine
- Being too fucking old
…so it’s easy to see how that on balance he has exceeded expectations…
Massive infrastructure bill that just funnels money to companies like Comcast and Spectrum and othet corporations who'll squander like they have every other time they've been given money
Student loan forgiveness that does nothing to change the insane and continually rising cost of attending college.
Marijuana rescheduling that does nothing to address the fact that 40 states have already legalized it for medical use and 25 states who've legalized it for recreational use.
This is little more than a bunch of empty gestures and lip service to make it seem like they're improving things when in reality, very little is changing (and to give people like you hollow talking points to list as accomplisments). This is why so many people don't even bother to vote anymore because the whole system is stacked against us.
That bar was extremely low huh?
Yes. Being better than Trump is a low bar.
Are you confused about what’s happening here?
It would be nice if we actually had policies we could champion instead of just "not Trump".
.
Honestly, no, it's not. We should have had those things decades ago.
I've seen the need to point this out: Dems have had all 3 (of house, senate, presidency) for 4 years out of the last 24 years. If you include Bill Clinton that goes to 6 years of the last 32 years. Want to add Bush senior? Then it’s 6 years of the last 36 years. Want to add Reagan? Then it’s 6 years of the last 44 years. That's right, 6 years out of the last 44 years that Dems had control. And for filibuster proof majority they had 4 months of the last 44 years. Not years, 4 MONTHS of the last 44 fucking years.
And you want to ask why things haven't happened?
If you want progress, give Dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
.
If you're happy with being hungry for hours before being given anything to eat, then good for you I guess? We can do better. Being kept hungry and given crumbs isn't healthy, it's positively abusive.
.
I'm not going to praise someone for doing something that should have and could have been done decades ago, no.
.
We should not do good things purely for the praise of others, we should do good things because they are the right thing to do.
.
So once the perfect moment has passed, might as well never try to catch up.
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago. The second best time is... fuck it, I'm just going to complain that there aren't enough trees.
This is like blaming Obama for his terrible response to Katrina.
That should be the bare minimum. Crumbs.
.
That's it? That's all he's supposed to do while millions are still struggling?
Single mom: "I'm working three jobs and my kids are still hungry. We're about to be homeless."
"Hey now, Paris climate agreement! Be grateful!"
.
You're right, everything is really great right now in America. Nothing else to see here folks. Everybody's swimming in gold.
Ignore the nearly 60% of people living paycheck to paycheck.
.
Marijuana rescheduling
Is weed now legal nationwide? Everyone in jail for marijuana convictions now released? Records all expunged?
infrastructure spending
Bridges are literally crumbling. Where's the high speed rail?
student loan forgiveness
$1,600,000,000,000 total student loan debt, 45,000,000 Americans. He's wiped $150 billion. That's around 9% of the total and most of that has already been added back from the interest. "We did it Joe!"
clean drinking water
Flint would like a word.
lowered costs of generic drugs
For seniors, and for insulin.
expanded Medicaid
expand Medicaid coverage to adults with incomes up to 138 percent of the poverty level (about $20,780 annually for an individual or $35,630 for a family of three.) - How are they even surviving on that much? MURICA is doing great sweetie!
increased domestic manufacturing
What's the output not including the tax subsidized spending? Small businesses are being decimated.
increased nationwide gas mileage requirements
While increasing oil production he said he wouldn't do. There's a reason Sunrise Movement won't endorse him.
improved healthcare access for veterans.
Thanks Bernie Sanders!
.
See, you have nothing to worry about with Biden in November then. He's doing such a great job, why isn't he 50 points ahead? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
.
Dems are walking us towards the cliff. We're sounding the alarm and they keep marching onward.
.
What subject do you want to discuss?
.
I want my POTUS & Co. to fight for the following, as a start...
Universal healthcare, guaranteed housing, childcare for all, college for all, massive public transit projects in all the major cities, raise the federal wage to a livable wage, ban corporations from buying up housing, 75% minimum tax on rich.
.
There are always policies they run on. It's a matter of believing or seeing them follow through with them.
.
I just continue to hear excuses from Biden and Dems. "It's too hard. We tried. We'll try again when X condition is met. Sorry, donate more to defeat the Republicans."
.
What do you need to hear from me or say? I'll say whatever you want me to say. It doesn't matter in the court of public opinion and I have no influence on the upcoming election. If anyone uses anything I say for their voting decision, they're an idiot.
Trump is a fascist, rapist, piece of shit. Biden is the greatest and will save us all.
.
You are correct about everything. I am wrong.
What do you want to hear now? Good enough?
.
There are policies we can champion that are more than ‘not Trump.’
...and the clouds opened in the sky and everything was right in the world.
It doesn't make any difference.
.
There's infinite ways of communication. Correct.
.
Flooding the feeds with negative stories sure as hell isn't going to help in the court of public opinion.
The bar was Trump
It’s silly to downvote you for wanting the leaders and representatives of a country and its people to be held to a certain standard.
I mean, politicians work for us. We're their boss. They should be working their asses off for the people.
Frankly we should be sacking the whole lot of them for gross misconduct.
Now that we’ve had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected
Biden's much better than I expected, after being disappointed in Obama and his poor negotiating skills.
same reason people blindly follow Trump
four years we still have low wages and higher costs, women lost rights held for over half a century, police are still running amuck, environmental concerns abound, genocide, antiimmigration policies
and Trump's resume does not look any better
and the same people will scream and pitch a fit if anyone suggest a third party because it means a vote for that other guy
football politics
If you think these two candidates are the same, you haven't put literally any effort into paying attention at all, get out of here with your enlightened centrist bullshit.
Yeah, Biden is mediocre at best, and you're usually right about the Dem vs GOP race... but this isn't that, anymore. MAGA is a different beast.
Blue MAGA at its finest.
"Ya, Biden got us into a genocide, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@"
"Ya, Biden was the one who dropped 35 billion dollars for the militarization of police, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@"
"Ya, Biden was the one who silenced and admonished peaceful protesters while commanding order, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@"
The current conversation is "Trump would be so much worse", but its like all of you forgot that he is going for a second term, and in his first term, while he was bad, he was not as bad as Biden. And you have no idea how much it fucking destroys me to say that about the leader of the party I used to so vehemently supported. But its just the case. All the bad things Trump did, Biden has continued, and Biden has come out with a host of things that are MUCH worse than anything that Trump ever did.
We must reject the 2 party system.
First of, you should address the false equivalency here.
“Ya, but don’t ask me who could win against Trump if not Biden, bEcAuSe aLL i kNoW iS biDeN bAd!!@@!@“
“Ya, you can keep telling me how trump will be worse, and prove it, but aLL i kNoW iS bIDeN bad!@!@@!!”
Ya, I couldn’t have even pointed to Palestine on a map a year ago, bUt aLL’s i kNoW iS, BiDeN BAAAAAD!!@!!@“
You honestly think Trump wasn’t as bad as Biden? Really? I think we can all see why you’re here now.
You honestly think Trump wasn’t as bad as Biden? Really?
It's very hard to understand America from St. Petersburg.
I’m confused with the comparison… No one is talking about St. Petersburg here.
The implication is that the person you replied to is an actor paid for by Russia, trying to destabilize the country.
Did you seriously just suggest that democrats, or as you ignorantly like to call them: “blue MAGA” should die?
And…
Polls…. ROFL! This is one of the reasons why I can’t take you seriously. The other is that you didn’t give a shit about Palestine before October of last year.
And news flash kiddo. EVERYONE opposed genocide. We still have an election to consider. So for all your pretending to know what you’re talking about- which MANY have disproven by the way-
You’re going to get genocide no matter the results.
But again, you already know that. You just seem to want better genocide.
Fascists. I said fascists should die.
If this is your response, you are agreeing that modern democrats are fascists.
No, you said specifically… that blue MAGA should die. And everyone knows it’s the ignorant little pet name you people have for liberals.
I promise you, my mod deleted comment (wonder who reported it to get it censored) did not include "they blue MAGA should die".
It said "Fascists should die". It used your words to describe "Blue MAGA" as fascists.
You're doing a great job here champ.
In case you delete it in embarrassment:
“I promise you, my mod deleted comment (wonder who reported it to get it censored) did not include "they blue MAGA should die".”
Man…. There’s nothing you can say that will ever ring true, is there?
in his first term, while he was bad, he was not as bad as Biden
If you ignore the 4 years of constant chaos, mismanaged pandemic that ended up killing millions of Americans, damage done to our reputation on the world stage, the record setting amount of graft, and ten thousand other things... This is absolute lunacy.
Blue MAGA
Dumb-assery at its finest.
and in his first term, while he was bad, he was not as bad as Biden.
Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump was 1,000,000x worse than Biden. Nice try Ivan.
I know health care is expensive, but you should get your head checked
If you're not voting for one of the big two in most cases you might as well save yourself the bother and stay home. Not saying it's right, it shouldn't be that way but the US voting system is extremely flawed so you need to make a frustrating decision. That's just the shitty reality of it from what I can tell from the outside at least.
Nah. Trump is dangerous. You skip this vote, you might never vote again
I probably didn't word that very well, I agree everyone should absolutely vote.
This is such BS. Trump is a piece of shit but there's no way he can just declare himself a dictator and remove our right to vote. Remember "the president doesn't really have that much power" or at least that's what I hear anytime Biden gets criticized for doing so little to help the lower and middle class in this country. Voting for Biden isn't going to make the GOP go away or rethink their strategies. We'll continue our downward slide regardless of which one of these old windbags gets elected.
Remember 1/6? Just give them a second go, they already tried to subvert democracy, they’ve already damaged many of our institutions by more than they’ve been able to recover in the last 4, building is more fruitful than destruction, but it takes longer and is harder. Give these fucks 4 more years and they’ll get it right, handmaids tale here we go
Yes, I remember it along with every other American alive. There is zero chance they'll allow that to be repeated again just like a 9/11 will never happen again because people no longer think a hijacking means being flown to some other country for ransom.
Our institutions are being damaged by the leadership from both these parties. I'm so sick of hearing excuses for why things can't improve meanwhile Republicans seem to face little opposition in passing their shitty agenda while also not holding a majority.
The zero chance is only if you don’t give that power back. The judiciary is already captured for at least another decade. If they get the executive and legislature back, and 4 more years, the zero chance is gone. You need to stop being cute, there will be consequences
Same shit I’ve heard for years
Right the issue isn't voting for another person, the issue is that in first past the post voting, voting for a third party is essentially not voting. So you can protest vote because you dislike the main person your party puts forward, but if you think the other parties candidate is worse you are doing yourself a disservice voting third party. It's not the people it is the system.
It makes perfect sense why we only have two parties while many countries in Europe have lots of parties. It’s not magic and it’s not because our parties are just so good at stopping third parties.
The reason we are like this is because our voting system punishes similar candidates who run against each other. This results in parties that are more like coalitions, each made up of various factions that would be separate parties in a better system, who run a primary to pick one candidate to send forth, so that they don’t cannibalize each other in the general election.
The bad part is that even the primaries generally have the same flawed first-past-the-post voting scheme, so similar candidates often have to strategically drop out or not run at all.
This voting system desperately needs to be fixed. But you can’t fix it by simply acting like we just have to decide to have more parties, nor can you fix it by voting third party and screwing over one of the parties. I think this idea of voting third party in this election is appealing to some because it makes you feel like you’re doing something to fix it. You’re not.
In my view the best hope of fixing this is pushing for election reform locally and winning over communities to the idea. There are some parts of the country with better voting systems in place. We should build on that.
"The other guy is worse than me" is not such a winning strategy, but I guess it works for the #VoteBlueNoMatterGenocide crowd.
We have to support the genocide OVER THERE so we don't have genocide OVER HERE!