Go figure.
2y 10mon ago by feddit.uk/u/Someone in dontyouknowwhoiam from feddit.uk
that is just sad. yet so many will say sexism does not exist
Intersectionality
It's as if, like, if you are a woman, and also in a disfavoured racial category, like, where they, uh, have overlap? Where they meet? It's not the same as either one individually but its own, I guess nexus? I feel like there's a better word for this
There's a somewhat niche, but clever word for this particular combo - misogynoir
Coined by Moya Bailey in 2010
@ReiRose@lemmy.world has it right, the term and idea is intersectionality.
apropos of nothing, intersectionality came out of critical race theory's analyses of black womens outcomes in the legal system. the particular combination of oppression is literally the textbook example.
The term is "intersectionality". Conservatives really hated the term before they went all popeyed over "woke".
but being a woman isn’t really a minority tho
It depends on the context. In a Victoria’s Secret fashion show? Yeah, probably not the minority. In a tech role, which women are systemically harassed and bullied out of pursuing? Yeah, women are probably a minority.
but being a woman isn't really a minority tho
They certainly are in computer science
That's not what minority means in the sociological context. Volume is mathematical. Poor people are a minority and there's more of them than the 1%. Being a minority is about lack of power, prestige and property. And intersectionality is the more formal term, but 'double minority' gets the point across.
idk the point of your snark... people are still figuring out intersectionality. just give some education or stfu, dont condescend to people who are making an effort.
Also the person in the next door cubicle that microwaves fish for lunch.
This is also common in the guitar community. Some women can shred like mofos, and here comes Jim-Bob McGraw saying their playing is tracked etc., ad nauseum
Can... Can I be the one sitting in that chair? (｡♡‿♡｡)
What does it mean if their playing is "tracked"? Genuinely have no clue.
Like they use a pre recorded track and then make a video
Lip syncing for guitarists
ahh! that makes a lot of sense!
Sure there are. But then there are girls like Melle Baby who overshadow them not by only wearing underwear. Seriously, how do I get her out of my recommendations?
Yeah, online gaming has all but confirmed to me that sexism is very alive and well.
The funny thing is that in my experience female programmers usually have above average skills. I suspect it’s exactly because of this bias against women in tech. Where an average or below average dude can easily get by, this is much harder for women. As a result this bias acts as a kind of filter which results in female programmers being on average a little better than male programmers because all the average or below average ones get filtered out early.
Here's hard data to match your experience:
"This paper presents the largest study to date on gender bias, where we compare acceptance rates of contributions from men versus women in an open source software community. Surprisingly, our results show that women's contributions tend to be accepted more often than men's. However, women's acceptance rates are higher only when they are not identifiable as women. Our results suggest that although women on GitHub may be more competent overall, bias against them exists nonetheless."
That's probably just because women are smarter than men.
I might add, in the hostile environment women may feel compelled to try harder at least to make a point. As in, "I'll show you what I can do".
If she were a man, she’d be calling herself a polymath and everybody would be agreeing with her.
Hell, she's be the meme for what a "real man" is instead of "gigachad."
Not a perfect example, but I never see people question Henry Cavil's nerd cred
Well gamers exist
Even more rage inducing these comments would be the same if she wasn't conventionally attractive.
Fucking programmers need a solid clip around the ear.
Nah Elon is not that useless, he knows how to change twitter's icon
I'm sure he got someone to do that for him
Probably replaced “twitter_logo.png” with the x logo under the same name in an AWS bucket lmao
That's actually pretty hard to do with a codebase as large as twitter's must be. You would have to locate the frontend code for each front end they have (website, app, etc). For each front end, there will be multiple Twitter logos (different resolutions, icon version, etc.). And then you would have to replace all of them and push the changes through their pipelines.
I doubt musk can do that.
It's incredible to me that people actually think Elon writes code at Twitter
Elon is a novice when it comes to programming.
That is obvious to any programmer who saw his antics at the beginning of the Twitter takeover.
I mean, the guy was claiming the people who added the most lines of codes are the ones with the most skills and are the ones allowed to stay.
While an amateur programmer needs 100 lines of code, a good programmer can do the same in less than 10 lines. Which is faster, more performant, wastes less resources, and is easier to read afterwards.
It is literally the opposite of what Musks claims.
And lose lawsuits
I was so glad we had a woman join our dev team some months ago. It's more fun, more relaxed and we are able to get better results as we just cover a wider area of skills. People gatekeeping programming to include only men are idiots.
That poor girl. My gf's only female teammate quit last month and i suggested she start grinding leetcode asap. Could you imagine being the only woman on a team? Pretty strong indicator that something is very wrong there.
Eh, my team is this way, but it's because we're aerospace adjacent which further compounds the problem. The only woman on our team is awesome and everyone gets along great. No one has an inflated ego or feels the need to one up each other though, which tends to be the root of the issue in my experience. Lots of tech bros feel the need to put others down, and see women as an easier target unfortunately.
I think they meant men in specific in this case. I don't know that there's a huge problem of women being sexist against other women in tech.
Are you suggesting it's never about gender? There's no such thing as sexism?
Sexism isn't about gender? What the hell are you talking about?
What I believe they mean is that you shouldn't counter sexism with sexism.
While there are a lot of sexist guys in tech, not every guy in tech is sexist.
If we want to reach parity, there's gotta be some only woman at first.
It's the same thing with any kind of diversity. Not an expert, but anecdotally, it seems to work better if you start adding diversity at the top. At least people at the senior+ level are generally more comfortable being outliers.
I don't think it's necessarily an indicator of something wrong with the team. it's not easy to hire women in this industry, there just aren't that many of them. A team of 10 people with 1 woman isn't a red flag, it's unfortunately average. If we're talking about a bigger team that's a different story.
It's somewhat easier if you hire immigrants. there are definitely more women devs from Eastern cultures than Western cultures.
You say this, but I've been on 5 two-pizza teams over the course of my career, and there were other women on every team except the 2 most toxic ones. My current team at a large fortune 500 is majority women. I realize this may not reflect the entire industry, and some fields may be more male dominated than others. But there are a lot of women programmers out there. You just need to pay them well and give them a good work life balance and they'll work for you.
I do agree that there's more we could do to attract women. The company I work for is known for good WLB so I don't think that's the issue. We only hire senior people every few years and I'm pretty sure we only offer market value, so it's possible that is a problem.
That said, I think we actually have more women on dev teams than most companies do. Especially the back end teams, maybe because we have a lot more women in the engineering leadership there. It's our FE teams, which are led almost entirely by men, where we have fewer women. So if we did start hiring again I'd really like to see us bring in more women at the top.
I've interviewed around 20 people since I started working here and only 3 candidates were women-- I don't have any control over who the recruiter sends our way, so I don't really know what kind of bias could be going on there. So it's possible that's a problem too.
All that said, hiring good engineers is really competitive and I think we do struggle against FAANG-likes already. Even though we have a lot of good benefits we have a reputation for being super boring and proprietary (think enterprise software like Oracle, but not Oracle thankfully), which turns a ton of people off. So it's not easy to attract talented people to start with.
It's annoying sometimes that people just assume that those who don't work in tech are completely clueless about tech.
It's also really funny to mess with people who assumes that.
as someone who works in tech, the number of people who think they know about tech and are actually completely full of shit dramatically outweighs the people who don’t work in tech and do know what they’re talking about. it can take a lot of energy to differentiate the 2 groups
dunning krueger is at play a lot, because most people use a computer every day and think they know everything about the internet because they know what DNS stands for and typed a command to flush the DNS cache this one time and it worked
This mirrors the experience of anyone who has studied linguistics.
Because everyone speaks at least one language fluently, they tend to assume that they understand how languages work, while having zero awareness of the fact that people have spent generations studying language and communication at the PhD level and that almost nothing about what we reflexively intuit about language actually holds true.
And I say this as a purely amateur linguistics nerd who does not claim any real formal expertise in terms of academic credentials.
I feel personally attacked lol
I feel dumb.
Repeat after me : "it's always DNS"
Same. And I've dated a Denise. Not easy to forget.
Yeah, you can't really fake experience either. I recently joined a group of guys who clearly have had plenty of real world experience in the kinds of things I have, and just talking shop is refreshing. Haven't had that ability for a long time.
If someone like her showed up in my team, and she's able to talk the talk, I wouldn't need any further validation and it'd be fun to hear the kinds of things she's worked on.
Funnily enough, a woman is joining this all-guy group soon and I'm told she's really good, so I get to do exactly that.
Don't exhaust yourself, just assume that everyone who thinks they know about tech does. They'll prove themselves wrong very quickly if necessary and you eliminate the risk of getting owned by a VS model.
except when you waste a crap load of time figuring something out only to realise that the person that says “it can’t be X” didn’t actually know that it was in fact X
… this is why you don’t argue with ISP support when they tell you to reboot your router: just do it; they don’t know that you’ve done that before you call them, and you telling them that’s not the problem is not going to change anything… it’s not because they don’t believe you specifically, it’s because they just can’t trust that everyone knows what they’re talking about
the same goes for most IT problems… it saves time in the long run to just assume people don’t know what they’re doing, because problems and systems are both complex and dynamic
Re ISP support: It depends on the support desk person you're talking to. I've talked to idiots who have no clue what they're doing and thus can't tell if you do. I've also talked to people who clearly knew a lot and could tell I knew enough to make the claims I was making. I obviously prefer the latter. Shame all support can't be that and usually is just a complete layperson following a script. Deviating from that script at all makes them uncomfortable
Nah, ISP support (and many other support) just have a script they have to go through on every call.
I agree that rebooting your electronic device will fix a lot of issues.
But if those from support were actually any good, they would just reboot your router remotely.
that kind of reboot doesn’t do everything… turning the power off for 30sec completely discharges the capacitors in the power supply, as well as leaving time for things in the exchange to time out and reset
it’s a quick way of solving a mountain of issues, both client side and ISP side
some ISPs do have a script, some have better support than that but rebooting is a good strategy for a huge number of things because IT systems are just so complex
This is true, but also IT is a huge place there is an insane amount to learn. So really you spend an incredible amount of time in the "valley of despair". Basically anyone who brags about their skills is VERY suspect. This person is an iOS developer, which is a great career, but the title of the article is phrased like she was at least Linus Torvalds. I'm sure she had little say in this, but whilst a reaction like this is never justified I can see why people made fun of it. Also it was clearly written by someone who has no idea what the words mean. Unless I'm mistaken MIPS is a cpu architecture, you can't program in it. You can write machine code "for" it. So yeah I can see why people assumend these claims were lies.
They assumed these claims were lies because they are sexist.
I work in tech. I taught programming at university. And guys think I have no idea what I am talking about when I am the person correcting their f*ing babies homework. I had men come into my office asking me when the Sys Admin is back in office.
They assumed these claims were lies because they are sexist.
...which is stupid because you don't pick MIPS and ObjectiveC if you're just flexing your hobby skills. From the language choice alone I knew she was a developer.
MIPS is processing speed. Definitely needs programming
MIPS is a CPU architecture.
But it needs programming right?
Yes, but I wouldn't recommend it.
(I didn't enjoy Assembly in college and I haven't written it since)
This is one of the problems I find with computers. Same acronyms meaning different things
Million Instructions Per Second
Microprocessor Interlocked Pipeline Stages
Both relate to processors and it's dumb
Well not really as such. MIPS is a CPU, yes it has microcode, but for argument's sake, let's assume the person in the article is not a CPU designer. I'm sure in the slightly sassy reply to internet trolls where he listed every achievement she could think of, being a CPU designer would've been mentioned.
So you can write program FOR a microprocessor. You can either do it in a very low level way, for example writing assembly or even byte code to a CPU directly, or in a very (well relatively) high level way, for example the Net Yaroze development kit for the PS1 (I hope the ps1 WAS a MIPS. The PS2 definitely was). Basically saying that you can "Program in MIPS" makes no sense as such, and to anyone who knows almost anything this hurts the credibility of the article simply.
Yeah, and even more broadly, there are very few single things you can learn about a person that tell you anything else about them. Like "Because you're _____ your must also be _____." I work with a bunch of literal rocket scientists, and I often see people assume that because they have that kind of job, they probably aren't creative. Pushing aside the fact that there are giant amounts of creativity in engineering solutions, I know rocket scientists who are painters or musicians. Some who have written fiction.
I guess there are a few things where maybe it's valid. There probably haven't been many NBA stars who suffer from dwarfism. But generally when you know one thing about a person, you just know that one thing. Finding out that someone is an academy award nominated actress doesn't, in itself, tell much else.
Tech is a weirdly wide term. Does it only include IT? Engineering? Astrophysics?
A lot of work is "tech" as in technology related. It is inevitable to be clueless about a lot of technology, even when being the spearhead of development in one specific field.
Meanwhile you don't need to tell the guys at the car-shop about programming, but they most likely know more about every non computer part of the car you just brought to them for repairs, because you were clueless about where that weird sound comes from.
Welding pipelines and building houses is tech.
Tech being used exclusively for electronics and computing is sort of weird, but idk what else to use.
Calling it the Tron industry would be fun, though.
Some fragile male egos in this thread. Looking forward to your complaints about the Barbie movie. Sad and pathetic.
Tbf, the original photo was already discounting her abilities. Saying "can program code" for a lead SWE is saying like "can do calculus" for physicist.
Whenever I see someone taking down these absolute bottom of the barrel incel dork on social media, it just feels like shoo-ing a squirrel off the bird feeder. Just not even worth taking action
I manage a software engineering organization at an aerospace company and if I had to rank all my folks, the women would be disproportionately high on the list. It boggles my mind that anyone would discount someone's programming ability because of their gender.
"This paper presents the largest study to date on gender bias, where we compare acceptance rates of contributions from men versus women in an open source software community. Surprisingly, our results show that women's contributions tend to be accepted more often than men's. However, women's acceptance rates are higher only when they are not identifiable as women. Our results suggest that although women on GitHub may be more competent overall, bias against them exists" nonetheless.https://peerj.com/preprints/1733/
Oh, I remember reading that one (or an article about it). Frustrating.
I don't get it either. I work with many, many really smart engineers. About half are women.
Half? How? I work at an aerospace electronics company and the male to female ratio is ridiculously high. I never understood why. It would be refreshing to work at a place with a more even ratio. The few women I work with are really smart and have moved up the management chain quickly.
I havent looked into it much but one reason seems to be stereotypes driving girls and women away from stem: Gender stereotypes about intellectual ability emerge early and influence children’s interests
A study on American kids but Im sure the same happens elsewhere. Its annotated and a great read just for the methods they used.
Since these stereotypes wont disappear soon we should let our kids know such ideas are made up and stuff so they wont buy them when exposed.
Depending on the culture in your country bias can sit pretty deep. I live and work in a country that's very egalitarian on the surface. But people here have a strong and sometimes subconscious belief that: A women aren't really intelligent but rather diligent and B women aren't good in math/logic.
When you grow up with these biases as a girl you don't have much interest in even trying to take up a hobby or even try to study something that is said to be only achievable by intelligent and highly logical people.
When you try it regardless people basically put you under a microscope and you have to proof constantly that you are somehow not what they believe is in your biology. It will surely show up someday when you make a mistake or don't know about something.
The company I work at makes rocket engines (e.g., the ones on SLS/Artemis). When I go to university job fairs, the number of women who come to our booth is miniscule. The women interested in tech tend to be much more clustered around the very socially conscious companies, like for green energy. Sometimes there's more interest couching it as supporting human space flight, but we do a lot of defense work, too.
I'm not in the tech field, but most of the people in my office are women and, as a man, it's so refreshing not having to deal with other guys' loud macho bullshit. I never liked it, it always made me feel uncomfortable.
Last time I checked, I didn't type with my penis. But to be honest, I didn't try yet. Maybe I'd be able to increase my performance.
I wonder if that's the underdog effect at work
Sure. I've known several crappy women programmers, but they get pushed out of the industry. The guys are more likely to fail upward.
Same in aviation
Where I am? Possibly, but I think it's also possible that we have an environment that appreciates diversity, so talented people who have had to put up with crap other places tend to stick around here. People who don't face any sort of discrimination might be as likely to leave as they would anywhere. Several years ago, we had a few consecutive years of downsizing, so the people who remained were all pretty sharp.
I really love the environment where I work. Brilliant people doing some very cool stuff, and most are really nice to deal with. I would enjoy having dinner with every single one of my employees.
It may have more to do with her being a model than with her gender. I'm not saying it didn't influence the comments, just that being a model probably had more weight
You can't change the looneys mind with reason. Don't try
What?
Anyone not hating a random woman they've never met is clearly mentally deranged /s
Or maybe I meant this isn't about gender and a male model would get similar comments. But yeah say whatever suits your propaganda 😂
Except for the fact that everyone in this thread knows that's an insanely false claim
Not on a site that is just a shittier version of reddit, anyway.
I don't think it's mostly gender... Programmers aren't usually those that have won the genetic lottery, I can count on one hand the amount of drop dead women engineers I've met in my field, they definitely exist, but they are super rare.
If we leave out fields that revolve around beauty and adjust for intelligence required in the specific field of work i am not sure, if beauty is actually negatively correlated with engineering.
I don't see a higher rate of beautiful people on the train to work, than i see at work. I just see more on the train, because there is more people overall.
She makes a valid point, but on the other hand, she causes funny feelies in the incels’ pantsal region.
She a boss fr
Basically they're scared and intimidated. Here is a person who is beautiful and intelligent and has made something of herself and that highlights their own inabilities.
I think sexism is only part of the problem, they'd have a similar response to a male model who had a successful tech career.
I'm not sure tbh. This reeks of a regular techbro sexism, not a regular insecurity. Intelligent male model will be a point of envy, not hate
I'm involved in technology and race mountain bikes on the side. Other than the occasional "it must be nice to be fit" comments from the neckbeard techbros, they're not as openly hostile to me as they are to women who are in tech. There is definitely a strong sexism part of the equation.
I'm sorry to tell yuu this bro, but nobody gives a shit about mountain bike racers. I don't think a bunch of poorly socialized boys who were proficient with computers were ridiculed by mountain bike racers when they were young. Good looking people on the other hand...
What kind of school did you grow up in to not have the nerds vs athletes click battles?
We did have it, it's just that mountain bike racers were considered nerds too.
That's certainly a part of the problem here, but let's be honest: how often do tabloids or other low effort media publish such "inspirational" stories that turn out to be absolute bullshit. Like the 10 year old who invented some quantum stuff, but actually his father just let him play around with some tools in the lab.
This story here unfortunately fits exactly this pattern, but apparently just happens to be true.
Even when they're not factually bullshit, the rhetorical framing is often ick. I'm disabled, and something that I, and a lot of other disabled people hate is "inspiration porn". It's patronising as hell, and most frustratingly, if you try to call it out, people get extra offended because they refuse to see how otherising and infantilising people isn't the same as advocating for them.
What's the point of your comment? "There's sexism, sure, but it's only 90% sexism!" Why downplay what's going on? How often do you SEE THIS happen with men shitting on men? Come the fuck on.
Not everything needs to be fact checked.
Whether this is real or fake, it doesn't matter. I'm never gonna encounter her in any way, there is no relevance in it. If I read stuff like that, I think "good for her" and move on.
What's the point of being super sceptic of something that has no impact on you?
That's a fair point^^
It's not necessarily being "scared and intimidated".
We're just conditioned that when someone at the top of their field talks about their hobbies / interests / skills outside that field, it's very often a very shallow level of skill. Why? Because being at the top of your field in almost anything takes a lot of focus. You don't really have time to develop other skills / hobbies.
There are countless examples. Actors or athletes who release music albums that are just awful. Celebrities who write really amateurish novels which would sink into obscurity if they didn't have a famous person's name attached.
Making the problem worse, often the entourage of those rich and famous people is filled with sycophants who heap praise on the celebs. That leads them to believe that they really are good at their hobbies.
Then there's the fact that the world is so hungry for celebrity gossip and special interest stories that "journalists" often get a tiny nugget of information and use it for the basis of an entire article. So, if a celebrity mumbles something about liking their backyard barbecue, it will spawn countless articles about how that celeb is an expert at the art of BBQ, they might release their own branded BBQ sauce, their skills were endorsed by some celebrity chef, etc.
So, given all that, it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical when you hear something like "This [insert celebrity type here] can [insert hobby here] like an expert!"
You know damn good and well that if this was a hot dude that could do these things, the comments towards them wouldn’t be nearly as hostile.
This is a complete strawman, and pretty much completely wrong. If you look at the heroes of the IT community, Linus Torvalds, Steve Wozniak, Gabe Newell, or the lesser known Terry A. Davis. These are not conventionally attractive people living a glamourous lifestyle.
This does not mean this post is not sexist, but the strawman of "if this was a male they would idolise him" is just complete horseshit, and in no way better than assuming a "pretty little woman" couldn't do programming.
You're moving the goal posts. I said if this was a hot dude the comments wouldn't be nearly as hostile. Both of us know this, but you're busy insisting these incels are only making these comments because the media or some bullshit. You know they're doing it because they're jealous and you're no better for trying to justify their bullshit.
But didn't you move the goal posts first?
No. I made a pretty clear statement that if this was a hot dude, the commenters wouldn’t be as hostile. That’s setting the goal posts. Saying I said they’d be praising the man is moving them.
And you made that statement on a post that was about a different statement.
"This [insert celebrity type here] can [insert hobby here] like an expert!"
The original post doesn't say "like an expert", but you continued to create a strawman argument focused mostly on this aspect.
No, no. The vast majority of people who are interested and good at computer science are men or male. It is the truth. The world is also replete with women who say things like this, but basically can only write hello world to the console.
But exceptions exist and people who don't fit the common stereotype absolutely deserve to be allowed to do what they're good at.
So you learned enough about the history of computing to make claims like this, but not enough to know that practically all the first programmers were female and some even pioneered theory, techniques, and languages? For example Grace Hopper, who you are erasing from history here.
I call bullshit. Either you purposely ignore these facts, or your sexism prevented them from being remembered when you learned them.
Don't forget Ada Lovelace, the first computer engineer and the namesake of the Ada programming language.
She was a okay mathematician that did indeed "get" Babbages nonexistent machine (I forgot the name of it, analytic engine?). She wrote incredibly simple software for it. Who knows what she would have accomplished if she had a proper computer, but she didn't and we'll never know.
In the immediate Postwar years there were indeed some gifted women in the field, but they were never the majority.
The person who coined the term software engineer was a woman.
There is a reason several people have pointed out facts to you. You clearly want to deny the fact that women were very much a part of computer ENGINEERING
You're just being pedantic. Women were extremely pivotal in the creation of computing [insert more specific subfields if you want, doesn't change anything]. Your comments certainly all read as refuting this. It's not controversial to the non-incel community.
Oh so then perhaps you can link to these 1940-1960 statistics that somehow neatly and consistently segmented out computing roles into easy to define categories despite the fact that it was a new field and the lines between subfields were and always have been changing? Got a link handy?
Oh weird, apparently no such link
Grace Hopper literally invented the first software compiler.
If you dismiss software engineering as a form of engineering, then you have no qualifications to be an engineer and no business even commenting.
The original post didn't say the word 'majority'. I did not say the word 'majority'. Hell, you didn't even say the word 'majority', until that last comment I'm responding to anyways.
You said the word 'backbone'. Well, when you think about it, aren't compilers like the backbone of software engineering?
You're not gonna get very far writing your new fancy game by manually flipping all the bits one by one with a panel of switches, you need a compiler.
Why do you think the human computers weren't the majority of people creating the first electronic computers?
Yeah very true, and credit where credit is due. The majority of "computers", when that was a job title, were women who were very good at running quick calculations.
I'm not so sure I'd call them "mathematicians", but they were very good at what they did.
In my book mathematician implies someone who studies mathematics academically. Not someone who performs calculations for their job. By no means am I downplaying these women. In fact I'm certain they could do a lot of this stuff quicker than many or all academics.
Ada Lovelace, who was mentioned in one of these comments as the first programmer, was a proper mathematician.
Lol, I'm sure. They invented the integrated circuit, the instruction set, and most modern day programming languages. But all of their achievements were hidden by mean, jealous men.
Typically, smart and powerful people have the wherewithal and know-how to not let that happen, let alone en masse. That's part of why we might consider them smart.
The reality is that there were many female computer operators. Engineers and inventors, not so much. A few exceptions, but they were, as I have said, the exceptions.
Motherfucker, women used to be the vast majority of programmers. A woman was the one who led the team that wrote the code to get to the moon. She also coined the term 'software engineer.' So don't give us that bullshit that the vast majority that are good at computer science are men. And no, the world is not replete with women who claim they can choose but can only print to the console. Where the fuck have you come across that?
People like you are the main barrier for women getting into programming.
Absolute moron. I knew damn-well that you were going to mention Hamilton at some point because every simping imbecile does. Every single exception to the general rule, that males are more interested in IT in general, is proclaimed across the world as though it disproves said rule. Look, these women are smart, capable and deserve all the success they've attained. That does not mean there is not a general rule.
People who are generally smart and capable should not care about my approval to enter into programming. They'd do it because they love it, not for someone's approval. Frankly, if some woman doesn't enter into programming because of something some rando like me said online, I very much doubt she was much interested in it to begin with.
ITT: basically a reddit comment section on a post with any woman.
Guess the "it feels like Lemmy is more positive" days are over. So it goes.
Those guys are pathetic
I'd be impressed by anyone who could "Hello, world" in MIPS
A hello world in MIPS is impressive by itself.
MIPS as in assembly language for MIPS CPUs? If so that's pretty harcore.
Yeah, this is the one that got me as well. If you write code for very long, you'll pickup a handful of languages. Modern languages (pretty much all of them in the screenshot) are something entirely different from writing anything near assembly. Even still, it's an uncommon combo.
So if those commenting learn like, 4 more languages including assembly and then turn into a total smokeshow, they can comment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndsey_Scott
Pretty impressive!
It's almost like they don't know who Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, Radia Perlman, etc. are.
What a waste
Yeah it must suck to be able to travel the world and do photoshoots for a living, while also being a software engineer on the side (probably a better one than those commenters too)
I admire her. Excelling in two radically different areas.
Studying in 3 if you really want to look at it. Comp science, modeling, and theater
Intelligent and attractive? Out of my league, gotcha. Best to undermine one of those aspects to attempt to bring her down to my level. Well closer anyways.
841st fastest growing company in the us
Weird flex, but ok
Well, the US has a shitload of companies, it's not bad
The whole fastest growing metric is stupid tho. You can be fastest growing straight into bankruptcy, thats what most startups with marketing specialists as CEOs do.
Yeah
I can hire 5000 people at once, but will only be able to pay them for a day before I need to fire them.
But I would be fast growing!
Better to have a consistent company imho.
There's like 33 million registered companies in the U.S. 841st is pretty good
It is, but it does sound pretty funny
Yeah, it reminded me of the navy seal copypasta xD
yeah right xD oddly specific.
So is "I have X points on Stack Overflow".
Also, I'm on the iOS tutorial team for somethingorother.com.
Nope, not really.
Ain’t to many shitposts on stackoverflow and the raywenderlich website is one of the best ios programming resources. This shit is respectable.
27k points on SO is respectable. I've got 20k and that wasn't easy. There are shortcuts, but to find those you've also got to be clever.
Yeah tell 'em queen!
Am I the only one that doesn't think it's a waste if a gorgeous person does modeling/acting? If I had a body people wanted to ogle I would be using that power 24/7 instead of sitting here in a shitty office under fluorescent lights pretending to care about work while they pretend to care about me.
If that's not just a rhetorical question... I think some people who have intense bias against people justify their beliefs with racist/sexist rationale. A lot of their other beliefs depend on these stereotypes to be true.
If a person threatens these stereotypes they need to find a reason to eliminate the threat. Some start digging to desperately find something or they straight out claim it is a lie. Otherwise their whole worldview tumbles. I think people who overemphasize that this is an exception also fall into this category.
Wait wasn't that the point of Reddit? Why didn't someone tell me! Oh I've been making an idiot out of myself!
They probably meant assembly for MIPS, right?
She is amazing isn't she? I wish I was that well educated :)
Queeen !
I wish i could do half of what she pulled off. Life would be fullfilling.
What is that...new.. sentiment that i am feeling.. 🥰
Ok but... What about that white top? Am I the only one that thinks it's freaking weird? 🤔
It’s made of balloons to match the skirt!
Wait... That's a skirt? 😱
can program code
Such a weird sentence
Love Amherst. Really needs to change its name.
What’s wrong with the name Amherst?
Jeffery Amherst used biological warfare in the form of smallpox blankets on natives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffery_Amherst,_1st_Baron_Amherst
Probably because it’s named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffery_Amherst,_1st_Baron_Amherstwho wanted to exterminate indigenous people and used smallpox blankets to try to wipe them out.
He’s small pox blanket guy?! Yeah they need a name change.
You know what. Good on her. Proud of her doing what she loves. You go girl!
This is some good shit. As a white American male, I say: fuck sexism and racism. You go, girl.
Holy shit.
Intelligent and beautiful? Psh, what a waste
Does she give lessons?
(Narrator voice)
The hate-commentators had made a discord bot once at most.
MIPS?! Poor girl.
How the hell does she program in mips? I thought that was a unit of measurement
Noice. I encourage more females in stem
#foundtheferengi
Men are so terrible when someone other than themselves gets attention
So she's a dev who does modelling. Good for her? But what's the big deal?
If the picture showed some ugly guy with the same list of skills, nobody would bat an eye. The list of languages seem like pretty regular set of languages (with the exception of MIPS, where I guess it means MIPS assembler, but most people who studied computer science pick up the one or the other random weird language by the wayside).
Of course, the comments of these idiots that are attacking her are idiotic, but I think the author of the text on the picture is falling for a similar pitfall, being surprised that someone who does modelling would have an intellectual carreer next to it.
All of them (except of course the dev in question) fall for the same idiotic misconception: They believe a woman can either be intelligent or good looking.
Double major in comp sci and theatre.
Wait that's only one major, what's the second one?
Lead engineer = doesn't write code anymore, management role
I don't understand why people absolutely need to make everything about man vs woman.
If it was a male model those people would have written exactly the same. If tomorrow comes out an article saying the same thing about bred pitt everyone would be suspicious about that being fake too
Since the two jobs are so disconnected from each other it sounds unlikely and they assumed it was some clickbait fake post, that's all.
I'm absolutely for equality and against any discrimination against women or any other category, but making this into a gender battle is ridiculous
I always sort of hated this image. The point seems to be that one should jump to the idea the replies are racist and / or sexist. But when you actually look at who the post is from it’s clearly from some “facts” account / company thing. Which honestly should lead to a degree of incredulity. It’s the same kind of thing as “this 22yr old bought just their second house” and then you read two paragraphs and actually their parents gave them a small loan of a million dollars to start their real estate business.
Like, the whole point of the post is to bait people into saying that kind of thing, so when people fall for it it’s kinda understandable.
Don't forget all those articles about teens 'making scientific discoveries' or 'inventing' things, then you find out both their parents are high profiler researchers who have access to multi-million dollar labs and their kid just happened to 'discover' some new thing.
Exactly. It's not about race or gender. If it was a white male in the pic instead, the comments would be the same. But people want to make everything about race, gender and religion in today's society. It's honestly pathetic.
Too be fair, I'm sure a lot of it just boils down to internalized bias. I'm just saying that skepticism of a clickbaity Instagram image macro probably shouldn't be pointed at as evidence of the downfall of society.
Itt: people getting upset over joke comments.
If there was a post about a male model saying the same thing the comments would be exactly the same. Not everything is about gender or race.
Not everything, but this is.
Nah. Good job making it though.
If I saw a similar post with a clickbaity headline, where it's a guy who is in a completely different line of work than programming, I'd very well be expecting to see similar comments.
That is exactly what they would make up for a headline... Yeah, of course, guys...
You know you can look it up for yourself, right?
A little scepticism on the internet is normal but I agree, this doesn't seem like one that would be fake.
Guess what, if that was some pumped-up muscle-bound male model that was 3/4 naked walking down the runway, people would be saying similar things about him too.
You've seen a lot of instances of similar comment pileups about male model/coders like Ashton Kutcher?
A well known Hollywood actor is the best example you could come with up? Try harder atleast
What do you mean? How is that a bad example?
I hate when people think they are smart.
I'm confused. Who are you implying is stupid, me or the person I was replying to?
The person you are replying to. I don't know if you are stupid, but you haven't said anything to make me think that.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I am stupid, I just didn't think I'd demonstrated that here. 😂
Dolph Lundgren Chem-E and when folks bring it up, no one expresses doubt
There is the entire term of "dumb jock" and countless videos and memes of muscle bound gym rats who are stereotyped as being stupid just because they lift weights, but sure, pretend that this is some kind of sexist thing.
Exactly
"I promise, seriously, my gatekeeping isn't because of sexism. I just get personally offended when anyone of any gender claims they have skills in anything."
Edit: after talking to this guy an unfortunate amount, I shouldn't have given him the benefit of the doubt. I think he is probably sexist, he is wildly determined to take issue with her.
Lmao
Is it not considered simping if you're paid? According to your laughable bs, you're a paid troll, since you're not in the left.
There's no question you're a troll looking to shit on anything that resembles the left. The only question is, are you a jobless loser doing it, or are you on a dictator's payroll?
Here is her stackoverflow profile https://stackoverflow.com/users/2274694/lyndsey-scott
She has 37k points there, this fact alone already makes her stand out. And yes she does have a specialization. It's iOS Development.
Also it's bullshit that experts only know one or two languages.
People with these type of salaries are usually managers and don't really code that much anymore. I don't really get your point there. Also could you explain what an expert for you really is?
Would you say the same thing about bilingual people? They're language amateurs because they don't specialize in one language?
Sorry, how do you know she hasn't been coding since childhood? All the top coders I know have been coding since childhood. They also know more than one language in my experience despite your claim. I have two close relatives, one I know for a fact earns seven figures. He was constantly learning to code new languages when he was younger. He's slowed down now that he's middle aged, but I remember when he was learning BASIC and Assembler on his Apple ][. And later Pascal. And then C. And then C++ and then Java. And so on.
Also, plenty of people learn second or even third spoken languages as adults and become fluent in them. My childhood best friend's father fled Ceascescu's Romania after being conscripted, came to America, learned English, and then wrote academic works. In English.
Again- best friend's dad wrote academic literature in English after learning it as an adult. That sounds like you can get fluent in a language as an adult to me.
And please do show the data that "those kinds of people" are introverts. I would like to see it.
Well on Wikipedia it states that she has been programming since 12.
I want to crack another joke but you seem frustrated so I'll be direct
You are the one making broad sweeping claims based on assumptions and anecdotal experience. You should either find something more substantial to back it up than "real programmers are loners because they don't have time to make friends", or reevaluate your stance on this. Maybe consider there are people in cs that are different than any you have personally met.
I've seen the video, and as I said elsewhere, this is moving the goalpost.
You just want permission to put other people down without being questioned on it. Stop making excuses and say something substantiative on the matter or get over yourself.
Reading your posts, you seem to have no clue about how programmers work at a professional level, especial senior ones.
Whilst programming, mentally the programming language is but a layer on top of a logic structure for the program and you don't structure a program from the language up but rather down from what you want to achieve breaking rhe problem into parts and eventually writti g it down into whatever language you're working in.
It is stupidly easy to learn a programming language (I know at least 20) because the structuring of program blocks (loops,,variable assignments, operations, method calls) is the usually the same, plus even the syntaxes of the languages themselves are often quite similar because they're driven by by similar needs, and even the being intimatelly familiar with the language itself takes at most 2 years.
What takes longer is to be intimiatelly familiar with programming frameworks (bundled libraries, tools and pre-existing high level program structures) rather that the actual languages.
As for your example, those still working as programmers (rather than, say, technical architects) making high 6 figures are normally working in big companies with some obscure frameworks that are at end of life - hence it's hard to find coders that know them - but are essential for the business (there used to be a time whe people programming in the old version of SAP could make tons of money exactly for that reason) or they're doing high value obscure stuff that goes way beyond programming, such as being a Quant for a Hedge Fund, were the big bucks are for the business domain knowledge (i.e. understanding complex financial instruments such as derivatives) not the programming stuff.
Replying to this comment to warn people this person joined four weeks ago during the reddit exodus and has a history of purposefully inflammatory comments. Their name is literally a meme.
This is a troll. Simply do not engage.
Anyone considering taking this idiot's comments seriously should know that they write comments like "btw I have more money than I know how to spend in decades" lmao
The cringiest incel shit I've read recently. Unlike on reddit, I'd love it if people like this were ostracized so thoroughly, they cannot stand to be on the platform, even to spread hate as this person is clearly aiming to do.
Maybe you, a single person, don't have a full knowledge of the industry? Maybe you feel like that because those are the kind of people you've been around? Outliers happen, and there's evidence to back up her statements. Why would you make assumptions about someone you've never met just because the people around you aren't that good?
The 10k hours claim you make further down (popularized by Gladwell) is also an absurd overreach on what the research actually was or claimed to be. Read Peak by K Anders Ericsson instead of Gladwell's outliers and you get a very different presentation of what the research says from one of the researchers.
They were studying a very specific type of rote learning with a specific type of training (because being classically trained in violin is that standardized). The number of hours trained to reach expert status was not identical between practitioners. He made absolutely zero claims about the amount of time needed to learn different skills that fit the same pattern, and more importantly, really didn't make such claims about entirely different and unrelated types of learning like code that aren't formalized.
Gladwell's book was straight anecdote with no rigor. Ignoring that, languages aren't that different and an expert can very easily hop most languages with minimal impact.
Somehow I don't think you're a physicist of any variety
Yes, most developers aren't very skilled, as you apparently aren't.
Learning multiple languages isn't hard if you know what you're doing. Thinking it's impossible says a lot about you.
Yeah... hostile work environment... sure
Always so considerate of you guys to volunteer to be glaring examples
Its true, i beat up any women on the work premises instinctively
The fact that you think physical violence is what we mean by hostile environment says absolutely everything
Its true, i patronize, ridicule and belittle any women naturally. Its the only way I can come off as an alpha male
Mid 🥱
Now THAT I believe.
I also believe that you think you're joking.
Tech jobs are absolutely a hostile wotk environment for women. There are way too many guys in the tech community that believe women can't be trusted to understand anything about technology.
Just like you believe that she can't be trusted to know anything about her own work and life experience.
I'm sure she's a programmer. But she's a programmer who drops her Stack Overflow score... let's just say that's a red flag in my book. (For all programmers).
For non programmers, it's like someone dropping their reddit karma score, or the number of their subscribers on Youtube as the first thing they say. Basically "my most important accomplishment is some rather unimportant digits".
(Views matter far more than subscribers on youtube, mostly because subscribers can easily be manipulated)
Stack overflow scores are not solar to reddit scores. Stack overflow scores are merit based. If I'm not a good programmer, I am not going to get a high stack overflow score. I can get a high reddit karma count just by reposting the same meme across a hundred different subs
Not to mention the fact this was literally brought up in response to a credential challenge. She's not going around introducing herself like this a propos of nothing like a blowhard. It's a put up or shut up rebuttal.
It also means she's a contributor.
Stack overflow scores are merit based
They're still voting based, and that's a problem. Are you a programmer? Because it's rather easy to get a high Stack Overflow score if you want it. Actually it might be a bit easier. Upvotes earn you 5x downvotes give you.
I actually just checked, I have 721 rep, with 9 questions asked, and 3 answers given. Heck, just logging in each day gets you 10 points.
I actually just checked, I have 721 rep, with 9 questions asked, and 3 answers given. Heck, just logging in each day gets you 10 points.
721 reputation puts you at ~55th percentile. 37k puts her easily in the 99th percentile. It's a pretty big difference.
Wait SO rep is upvotes based? Damn
One of many ways to earn it, but yes. Also accepted answers.
Check the link, also it's HUGELY offset. basically an upvote gets 5x the rep as a downvote.
Here's the strange one though. If you downvote an answer, YOU also lose 1 rep. I guess that's a good way to avoid people just spamming downvote, but it's a strange choice.
You're not impressing anyone, and there is no back door to continue trying to denigrate her skillset.
It's almost like that was only one metric she gave in the context of other metrics...
Stack Overflow score may not directly correlate to skill, but it does show that she spends time engaging with other programmers and thinking about programming questions, which helps paint a picture in the context of her other qualifications.
They're important. People found value in the questions or answers she provided on the site.
People who receive backlash/hate are often put in positions where they have to work harder to prove themselves.
Jon Skeet on SO was treated like a God and a meme because his score was so high it reset.
Her using whatever form of merit that we have to demonstrate her skillset is totally valid.
Anyone can learn how to code. What separates the hobbyist from the professional is the amount of time they're willing to put in.
yeah, a hobbyist will put in significantly more time because they love it.
Professional Chef's eat ramen.
I don't think you know any professional chefs.
HOW DARE YOU assume something that is totally true
Yes, people throwing out scores unprompted to brag is a red flag just like what college someone went to without any context.
Doing it as a response to one's knowledge being dismissed is just citing evidence.
It's a programmer thing and the list of the resume,.male/female will get scunity.
Replace the original with a guy who was walking down the runway and the comments would of similar. C++, python, MIPS objective -c, java...
But yes leading with the stack overflow number... I didn't realize was a thing. Still impressive but instead of typical response would just of been, I'm a lead developer here, or principal engineer here...
And I say all of that yo say, don't imply malicious intent on comments.
Companies hire based on metrics that are even more useless such as Github commit statistics. Stack Overflow score is a much better indicator in comparison.
I'm sure you're a nothing.
I'm just gonna leave this here.
Are you like, not a very good programmer? I know at least as many languages as listed here, have worked in many of them, and what I find in modern times is that a few weeks in a language is more than enough to do real work. Shit, like half of programming languages are just based on whether the creator of said language likes semi-colons or not.
Yeah, if you think being able to program in python, 3 variants of C, and the assembly language they teach you in school is unrealistic, you're probably just a shit programmer.
... No one actually cares if you have 2-5 years of experience in the specific language. I've actually never had prior experience in the primary language of any role I've been hired for. At most I just tell the interviewer that my experience with the language is 1 week of reading an online intro guide, and then show my ability to just code in the interview. If I can't make something compilable yet, most interviews are happy with pseudocode. But it really should only take a few days of prep to be able to make something compilable in any language.
A programmer needs enough base knowledge on what they're doing, but that's mostly universal. Languages you can just pick up based on what seems best suited for the momentary need.
if I ever entered the job market I'd list things like Pascal, Logo, Basic, 6502 assembly ... so shes doing better than me at least.