Looked up the modlogs. What the actual fuck.
That said, this whole episode and the comment deletions with the "we can't share this" reasons kinda show how Lemmy is better than Reddit in that modlogs are public.
I find it great that mods can't outright delete stuff, only hide it. It lets them do the job of cleaning up convos of spam and trolls without the unchecked power aspect to it.
Yeah, admins can purge stuff from the mod log. That comment seems to be completely gone.
that comment specifically was a link to a graphic image, so yes the admins certainly purged that. cc @Deceptichum@quokk.au
i saw it XD here let me telepathy it to you bzzzzzt
It's not really a black or white issue.
The modlog, as far as I can tell, gets sorted in the same order as user profiles do, by default. Which is to say "here's some recent stuff okay let's skip over some stuff hey here's some random stuff from two months ago that's pretty good right? I have been drinking FYI."
I could be wrong about this. I definitely feel like I have seen it be missing stuff even without mod purges though. Searching for the specific community or specific user / moderator you're looking for is usually pretty reliable, as long as there aren't pages and pages of results, then the same issue seems like it might occur.
Both of them are fucking insane. To devote this much energy to weirdos on the internet is deranged. They both need to devote their energy to better things, as evidenced by the fact that I had to press "show context" on their comment thread so many times I lost patience. I thought everyone on Lemmy was better than this. I dont care what the original cause of the disagreement was at this rate because EVERY step of the way, one of them couldve turned on do not disturb or gone to an alt account or SOMETHING. If either of you are seeing this, you can do better. Flying Squid specifically? Threatening suicide is the number one way to look immature (of every kind), especially over a stranger on the internet. Do. Better.
Edit: If someone could give a kind description of what the drama was even all about, I'd appreciate it. I can't bear to dig through either of their histories.
And the sick thing is we have been CALLING THIS GUY OUT FOREVER. The .world admins are ABSOLUTELY partially at fault for this for letting this user have the power they have had for so fucking long. Sorry for shouting I’m upsetti. 🙃
+1 to your edit though. The content was so vile and triggering, I was not up to the task. So, fair warning to anyone who wants to further investigate a case where every party is so obviously in the wrong. Tread carefully.
we have been CALLING THIS GUY OUT FOREVER
The mods aren't the only ones at fault either. He got so much support for this insanity. Call out his BS? Get asked for evidence. Provide text book evidence and it isn't enough. Be clearly in the right from a PTB and downvoted 10:1. The one time he's not technically being a PTB, but rather exhibiting symptoms of manic-depression, and people defend him saying 'this post isn't appropriate' when the history makes it absolutely so. All you upvoting MFs in the past have been cheering a clearly insane person, so maybe do a personal inventory of what seems rational to you and double check reality eh?
I'd be cheering for his removal except he's still mod of a few communities I'd like to participate in. L.W admins need to delete all his content and ban the IP address. I for one can't wait to never see that name on Lemmy ever again and I know I'm not alone.
I'm not a fan of his moderation style, but isn't the last paragraph a bit much?
It'd only be enforcing what probably is going to happen voluntarily anyways. My guess is it will be months before he uses the account again because he'll want the drama of 'did he do it?' to play out.
If I thought it wasn't too much I wouldn't have said it, and you saying it is literally supports the first paragraph (edit: which makes it a hilarious joke if that was your intention). He shouldn't be on Lemmy. The damage he's done over time is incalculable and what good would come of letting him back on? Besides it's not like even that could stop him anyways.
I agree he shouldn't be moderating any community. But IP banning him from the whole site seems too much.
It’d only be enforcing what probably is going to happen voluntarily anyways.
What the fuck? What is this comment?
I definitely think, at this point, that there is a little cabal of people who are devoted to harassing FlyingSquid, not just about his moderation but on a personal level, and they aren't stopping even when it sounds like he is clearly mentally struggling right now. That's fucked up. Don't do that.
You said "call out his BS, get asked for evidence, show evidence, it isn't enough" along with a lot of personal attacks towards FlyingSquid. What is your evidence of him being a PTB? Literally the only thing I have seen after asking this question a few times is that he sometimes argues with people, and a few months ago made a mistake on a report and didn't realize that multiple copies of the same message were all different reports about duplicated spam content, IDK, some weird honest-mistake situation like that. And he's rude to people sometimes. Nothing about banning people unnecessarily, or setting arbitrary rules for content removal, or anything like that, which is normally what I think of as PTB. Not "arguing."
What is your evidence for him being a PTB? I promise, it'll be "enough," I'll take it seriously if there is any.
I definitely think, at this point, that there is a little cabal of people who are devoted to harassing
Definitely. I haven’t seen evidence (though I might be wrong) that it’s any more than one user with a bunch of discuss.online alts. One of their alts DMd me immediately after Squid’s removal saying “you’re welcome” as though I am thankful for harassment just because I don’t like the guy. Honestly I hope this user doing the harassment gets IP banned. Imagine taking pride in provoking someone’s mental health. Freakish.
Thanks for pointing this out
What is your evidence of him being a PTB?
For what it's worth, I just had a look at yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com and couldn't find any documented example of actual power tripping naming him. Maybe the posts about him didn't use his nickname. Maybe there was nothing about him in the first place. Definitely not a clear case.
Edit: https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&userId=580006,see other comment
I've directly asked a few different people who claimed he was a PTB what it was that he did, and it's always some kind of bizarrely hyped-up misdemeanor. Every time. Not even "he banned this person who arguably wasn't actually a troll, but it's a gray area" but literally like "he sent this person a rude comment while they were in an argument OH THE HUMANITY." It's actually always the same two or three examples from four to six months ago. And they're always incredibly vocal and emotional about how terrible he is.
I'm not trying to get involved in lemmy.world moderator drama. I haven't even looked into this latest thing with him posting self-harm things. But I've formed a much more firm opinion, just as of today, that there is some kind of organized effort to drum him out of being a moderator, which seems to be succeeding.
to drum him out of being a moderator, which seems to be succeeding.
To be fair, even if there's no evidence of actual power tripping (e.g. banning users without reasons), the way he interacts with users is still not ideal as a moderator.
Using an alt to moderate would already help in that regard, as he wouldn't be able to threaten "I'll ban you" in the middle of an argument
Recent example: https://lemmy.world/comment/14488436
In this case the user indeed seems to be trolling, but just banning them without further comment would probably more effective than commenting like he did, which can contribute to the PTB reputation
Yeah, picking the argument with the user in the first place didn't seem like a smart move. I think he likes to argue with people on the internet, which is fine obviously, but it's better to keep it separate from being a moderator. I agree with you that it's not exactly power tripping, but he shouldn't have been in the argument in the first place and he was absolutely the primary aggressor.
Update: some pointed pointed about the ban from this user 5 months ago: https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&userId=580006
I don't have much more context unfortunately
What, return2ozma, the precursor to UniversalMonk? That's the PTB is that FlyingSquid banned him?
He's calmed down recently, but he used to be pretty spammy and unapologetic about it. He was finally banned "officially" because he basically said that he was seeking out specifically anti-Biden stuff and posting a steady stream of it to make sure that side of the story got some heavy airtime on Lemmy, as if there was a shortage of it. I'm not convinced that that should be the final straw in terms of handing someone a ban, but there was broad agreement from the mod team that he should be banned.
It also, as far as I can tell, wasn't FlyingSquid that banned him. Unless it was from an alt used for admin, or something?
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&modId=477305&userId=580006
Edit: Update: Here's all the actions that FS took against return2ozma. Looks pretty legit to me.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=477305&userId=580006
He’s calmed down recently, but he used to be pretty spammy and unapologetic about it. He was finally banned “officially” because he basically said that he was seeking out specifically anti-Biden stuff and posting a steady stream of it to make sure that side of the story got some heavy airtime on Lemmy, as if there was a shortage of it.
TIL, then I'm surprised he didn't get banned earlier.
It also, as far as I can tell, wasn’t FlyingSquid that banned him. Unless it was from an alt used for admin, or something?
Wait, aren't bans impossible to trace to the mod who did them? I remember this being something to avoid mod harassment
TIL, then I’m surprised he didn’t get banned earlier.
Yeah, Jordan made a whole specific post explaining about the ban, it was that big an issue. That's why I called him the precursor. He was stumping for third parties and flooding various channels with reasons why Biden is the worst, every single day, and they let him do it for quite a while before eventually taking action on it.
I already talked about that one, and found your explanation for why that was a horrible thing for him to say pretty unconvincing, but sure, I'll look into it more. Who was he talking to? Where was this so I can see the comments context? I already gave my reaction but maybe if I looked at the full context, I would feel differently, and it's so old a comment that it's not on my instance and obviously I'm not going to look through 4+ months of comments to find it and see the context for myself.
Lemmy's search is quite good: https://lemmy.world/comment/11470634
Got it, thanks. So FS had an extended argument with two people with a certain amount of embitteredness on both sides of the argument, in a community he moderates, and then at some point in this extended argument, he mentioned in passing that the person he was talking to seemed like a habitual rule-breaker, also.
I can't find the user anymore, which usually means their account was deleted at the home instance, right?
https://biglemmowski.win/u/Timii
Am I wrong about that? That kind of makes it sound like FS might have had a point about how that person was talking in bad faith in that particular argument, and also in some of their other on-Lemmy conduct. Right?
I stand by my assessment. Maybe you could say there's no point in FS getting in that long and fairly pointless argument with two separate people, but I don't think his POV in the argument was wrong, and there's absolutely nothing of PTB anywhere in there. If this is some of the best example you can find going back through six months of heavy Lemmy participation and moderation, I have no idea why anyone thinks FS is "insane" or needs their moderator abilities taken away. IDK, I haven't looked into the recent stuff so maybe they are unstable and it's better if they're not in authority, but still not a PTB in my opinion.
He literally says out loud he went through a users comment history looking for ammunition.
do you know who you're talking to?
Which seems reasonable to assess whether the user is a troll or bad faith actor
Ding ding ding lol
It's like "how DARE you be doing moderation of users when you are a MODERATOR, and having disagreements with people, the shame."
I do that too, in a freelance capacity, although I've also been accused of that being a terrible thing to do. But it honestly makes perfect sense to me. If I've been arguing with someone who is insisting that trans men are women and not just that but being totally weird about their conduct of the conversation, I will yes start to wonder after a certain point what their deal even is, and look into it.
Whatever. Ya'll proving my point. He has a cabal of users that make excuses and gave him tons of leeway and support when he clearly doesn't deserve it. Those users experience are just what I found quickly. I've seen numerous arguments where he ends it with mod action. Him claiming there's a good reason for it is BS when it is clearly his MO: argue with people and ban on loss.
Regardless. He's ... gone... World News et al are def going to be better for it.
’ve seen numerous arguments where he ends it with mod action.
Then just show them. Seriously. The closest I got was this example, but in this case the other user is indeed trolling, so it's not even power tripping.
Wait.
Why on earth does this complaint not apply to you digging through FlyingSquid's history to find something he said to someone six months ago, and telling other people he is insane and needs to be IP-banned and all his content removed, because of, for example, that thing he said to that one user six months ago?
lul. You asked for proof. I supplied it. That's the difference. I have actual reasons to say what I say. You support him blindly just because ?
Oh, I think it's entirely reasonable to look through someone's history and find stuff that gives context about their behavior, and fair game to bring up examples if people are talking about them, so that people can reference objective things which may or may not justify the conclusions or personal attacks that are being made about that person. I'm just saying that it sounds like you don't think it should be allowed, apparently, except when you do it.
I'm fine with looking at this stuff. It seems FS is having a mental health episode, and this is the result. It's not drama.
BPD as in bipolar or borderline
The acronym for Bipolar is BPAD, Bipolar Affective Disorder.
I'm not celebrating, the guy is threatening suicide, and posting pictures of it. He needs to get off the Internet and seek help immediately.
I've messaged @lwreport@lemmy.world about it, I suggest you all do the same.
**Yes (Content Warning)**
Unfortunately, this type of behavior, including threats of self-harm, is not uncommon on the internet and can sometimes be used as an emotional manipulation tactic. However, discussions of suicidal ideation are very sensitive and can be harmful if not handled carefully. Let’s focus on reporting this to the moderators while remaining careful and sensitive in how we address this topic.
What is the point of this post, when there's no actual details as to what was posted? The key images seem to have been deleted off server, and without that it's extremely difficult to pick up the context.
The modlog shows the conversation. The person in question seems to have a breakdown and offers to commit suicide on stream for someone who they claim want them dead.
Because of the content of the offending material it’s really hard to put the full info in a post without breaking terms of service. You are welcome to make your own post if you feel you can do better! :)
No, I have no idea what the context is. Hence my comment, because this is all drama without any info.
Exactly. And while FS may have been a PTB in general, this isn't really an example of it, it's just sad.
edit: replied to wrong comment original conversation here
Because he'd been reported on here previously? Ok, I kind of get what you are saying, but it also feels a bit like rubbing salt in his wounds when he's obviously having a hard time. But it's just my sentimental opinion and I won't say you're wrong either lol.
you know what you changed my perspective. im gonna edit the title at least you are absolutely right i am being a little salt rubby here.
arr we're all a bit salty sometimes :p
If this post was about Flying Squid banning you then I'd get the relevance to this community. Otherwise it's just drama imo.
There are enough posts complaining about FlyingSquid moderation here for this one to be relevant
i disagree personally i think this post certainly falls under “bans or other sanctions from mods” as outlined in the sidebar
Who was power tripping in this example?
oops i wrote that comment in the wrong text box. copy pasting here:
your position is valid in that this is technically not an example of active power tripping. i personally think this community is more valuable as a historical resource with this kind of follow up content but i won’t say your opinion is wrong.
If this was in the thread about unsettling facts he was explaining his pain condition which actually is referred to a suicide disease. Given the outrage some people have against him I imagine some people saw the opportunity to harass him about it.
they still moderate the following communities
why is it not there anymore?
Im on Lemmy far more than I'd like to admit. Im always so confused when I see Squid hate. Ive never seen him say anything that's not equal to what the other person is saying.
I can't even see this "episode".
I think there are people that take it waaaay too seriously when they see someone else is a mod. Mods are just you and me, but they have a more active role in whatever community. You can be a mod anytime you'd like. Simply create a community and voila! You are now a hated person.
Ive been banned from multiple places and couldn't care any less about who banned me, or who the mods are. Grow up and chill out.
Anywhoo that's my 2 crumbs. Enjoy the rest of your weekend everyone!
May I have a link to the modlog?
Filter by user, then you can search within that.
jordanlund is still around who is like squid’s slightly less chaotic yet just as unproductive twin. i will certainly be sticking to world@quokk.au for now.
I can second world@quokk.au along with usa@midwest.social and politics@sh.itjust.works, and technology@lemmy.zip.
I never understood the beef with FlyingSquid. Every time I heard this hue and cry about how he was abusing his powers, I asked for details, and it turned out the details were that he sent one rude message to one user, months ago, or that he liked to argue with people. Whatever. If he's now in a bad place I hope he gets some help. Life is fragile.
Jordan is too nice, and too much pretend-objective behind a supposedly objective set of rules, in my opinion. He tends to allow clearly toxic people and behavior, as exemplified by you-know-who, as long as they are careful not to violate any of the written rules more than twice or three times a week. There's nothing wrong with being nice but in some positions of authority it can wind up getting abused.
Jeffw is great. To me the epitome of his style as far as I can tell was when people starting complaining about the fact check bot, and he said "Oh, you don't like it? We'll remove it then." Why it was ever some kind of more complex other operation besides that, everywhere else, is why I no longer chill with lemmy.world.
I have mostly moved on from the LW communities and I would recommend that you do the same, so I care very little about all of this, just tossing in my opinion in passing.
I never understood the beef with FlyingSquid. Every time I heard this hue and cry about how he was abusing his powers, I asked for details, and it turned out the details were that he sent one rude message to one user, months ago, or that he liked to argue with people. Whatever. If he's now in a bad place I hope he gets some help. Life is fragile.
Exactly this.
thx for sharing
I can second world@quokk.au along with usa@midwest.social and politics@sh.itjust.works, and technology@lemmy.zip.
Good choices, but Midwest.social admin is known for power tripping: https://feddit.org/post/5548029?scrollToComments=true
Are you aware of any other community for US news?
Honestly, I'm not. Yeah, midwest.social is weird. Just a little bit. I hesitated putting it up there.
It's frustrating to me that there is no really good community for non-political US News. news@lemmy.world I have 0 complaints about, but it's lemmy.world, usnews@beehaw.org is a little quiet and also defederated from lemmy.world which in my opinion isn't ideal, and yes, midwest.social is a little bit odd.
You know what? Fuck it.
Let's see if that is useful.
I'm open to suggestions, as far as whether it should be only non-political news, and political news should go into one of the already existing multiple good places for it.
I feel like a lot of the interesting news that is going to happen over the next few years is going to be political, though.
You know what? Fuck it.
Let’s see if that is useful.
Nice, feel free to promote it on AskUSA@discuss.online
I guess a promotion post on world@quokk.au would also help
Jordan is too nice, and too much pretend-objective behind a supposedly objective set of rules, in my opinion.
He still has to come back about an arbitrary decision about Canada government terminology that the majority of Canadians users consulted refuted: https://feddit.org/post/5761475/4078668
That's an example of what I mean about the fake objectivity. It's hard to explain exactly, but he shows sometimes a sort of defaulting to some kind of "officialness" or higher authority that's figuring everything out, that he speaks on behalf of, that doesn't actually exist.
It's okay to just be a person, and use judgement, and be wrong sometimes. People will respect your authority more, not less, if you do it that way.
I'm not trying to bash the guy, I slightly bad even about talking about the topic. I think he's doing some hard work at an important role for keeping everything functioning. I do disagree with his judgement in some areas of moderation, though, and I think when you sign up to take forcible control over some area of people's experience, you also sign up for having your judgement talked about even if it's not complimentary to you.
ok you are almost certainly an alt of the other user blured in the screenshot. you sent me a DM saying “you’re welcome” about squid.
i hope you see this even though your account was banned: fuck off with that dude. don’t fucking harrass people. you are as much at fault here as squid.
his ban for "bad faith" against return2ozma was ridiculous.
And their lack of understanding their comms rules.
Or they add rules specifically to target single users then ignore it for others, like the # of posts per day rule
Why don’t the Redditor stay there.
i’m saying like-
Okay I tried to go through the modlog and the comment screenshot that you censored is removed from the modlog?!? How the fuck in censorship that bad on this platform. I might as well use tiktok
If you read further down it is discussed why it was removed.
Removed from the mod log tho? I don't see anywhere explaining that
Ah I see, thanks
Fuck yeah 🤘