Linux is not ready
1y 4mon ago by lemm.ee/u/_carmin in linuxmemes from lemm.ee
Proton the gaming tool
Proton is a tool for use with the Steam client which allows games which are exclusive to Windows to run on the Linux operating system. It uses Wine to facilitate this.
Skill issue
I really, REALLY wish the Affinity suite would work on Linux. They are the only ones even remotely comparable to Adobe.
Yeah, it's what I use these days and yeah, that'd be nice. It isn't the all-in-one package you get with PS, but for casual use in photo editing it's decent and there are alternatives for some of the other use cases of PS that are closer while still being a fraction of the cost when stacked on top of Affinity.
I use gimp for pixel art for game textures and to make memes. It has tons of features that nobody knows about becuase they're fucked by horrendous UI. But theres never been anything I needed to to but couldnt after looking up a tutorial on the internet. Valid points against gimp but lets not pretend people used to photoshop arent also kind of stuck in their old workflow habits and unwilling to relearn new software UI.
Theres photogimp but it hasn't been worked on in a while.
Also also, most people who use gimp on linux probably did so on a stable distro like Mint installing with default package manager. This means their experience with gimp is from a terribly old outdated version. Flatpaks have some issues but being able to easily install the most current version of software like gimp or kdenlive is night and day difference.
Also also, most people who use gimp on linux probably did so on a stable distro like Mint installing with default package manager. This means their experience with gimp is from a terribly old outdated version. Flatpaks have some issues but being able to easily install the most current version of software like gimp or kdenlive is night and day difference.
Another reason to use Gentoo: https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/media-gfx/gimp
You can install 3.0.0rc2 or even git version.
Oh cool! Let me just spend three weeks crawling through wiki articles, setting flags in the config files, and patching out 15 different issues with various drivers then installing 20 dependencies compiling them all from source.
Hyperbole, but yeah no thanks I'll take the L on some optimization and 2gb of storage space and some wierd file system locations for files to load a flatpak if old stable doesn't cut it. you might want to be careful recommending gentoo to people they might not know better. Most Linux nerds don't want to open that can of worms, but good for you if it works.
Photopea was written by a single college grad, and it’s miles better than gimp. While gimp has more resources and manpowers. Something is seriously wrong with their team.
Photopea blows me away. You can actually follow along in a lot of PS tutorials just using Photopea. It's got so many features implemented
Photopea uses rendering by browser. And probably doesn't have plugin system.
And? so what? It doesn't matter if GIMP has a plugin system. The UI is so shit you have to google everything to figure out how to use it and even then it's still complicated.
I'm pretty sure Photoshop was better in 2003 than gimp is today
Gimp has a few weak spots but it's an incredibly capable tool and if you think phone apps can do things it can't then I don't think you know how to use it.
To run Resolve properly, you apparently have to run DaVinci's flavor of Rocky Linux 8.6. If you're doing other things with that machine, this may be undesirable. And as far as I know, there's no equivalent for After Effects.
Even for hobbyist needs the feature set is basically a decade behind.
I mean, Gimp 3 ia looking pretty good to me. Maybe it's not fit for a workplace (even though it depends on the workplace imo) but it's definitely more than enough for hobbyists.
Would you mind citing some example of fundamental missing features?
Not trying to be a smartass, just genuinely curious
Can you make circles yet?
I love that copypasta
Yup, circle select, menu bar, select->outline, select your thickness, then use the paint bucket.
This is what people mean when they say GIMP can do the same stuff, the process is just totally different.
What about a circle that isn't filled in
That is for a circle that's not filled in, that's what the outline operation does.
I can guarantee you that no app on or for your phone can do a fraction of what GIMP is capable of.
You’re telling me this free, volunteer-run feature full software isn’t almost as good as the multi-million dollar product from a multi-billion dollar company?
If this dude can edit his videos and images on Linux so can you Mr Van Gogh. https://youtu.be/lm51xZHZI6g
Yes, that's what we're saying. It's fine though, I don't expect developers to work miracles for free, they are doing an amazing job, but In the context of "Linux being ready" it's important to recognize some honest truths.
But also, whenever someone pulls that card I just point at Blender until they go away.
Hell, there is such a widespread appetite for a PS alternative you'd think it'd be easier for Gimp than Blender at this point.
Thank you. All of this libre software is amazing, and impressive as hell, but that doesn't exempt it from having usability issues and other valid points of criticism.
Calling that out isn't inherently anti-Linux or anti open source. I want all of these tools to improve to the point that there's no fucking contest and they are the de facto standard (like blender is), but shit is going to have a harder time improving if people have blinders to valid criticism.
Users do not care about how hard the devs are working for free. If the software doesn't have the features, it's not ready.
Really think about this. You're saying two entirely contradictory things:
-
Linux software is ready to compete with Windows
-
Users cannot expect Linux software to have comparable features to Windows
How will it compete without comparable features? Passion and morals aren't valued over effectiveness by most users.
gimp is ass sorry
GIMP's engine is very good. It's UI is cuntpuke.
Somebody write a QT front end for Imagemagick and you'll probably see Linux adoption jump.
You’re telling me this free, volunteer-run feature full software isn’t almost as good as the multi-million dollar product from a multi-billion dollar company?
You're describing the truth about Linux vs windows, except many Linux oses are better than anything ms makes.
I think Windows could be a far better OS than Linux if Microsoft gave a single shit. Instead they want to add AI and recall and various invasive updates.
The only thing windows has going is the market share.
Could, true, but never has, never will. As long as it uses a janky non-standard kernel underneath, I'm gonna be hating on it.
Yeah. it's dogshit but they certainly have the capacity to improve. it's clear where their priorities are: milk users for profit
I've been using the Gimp for decades to great effect. Git gud (pin intended). Also, all phone photo editors are garbage.
Trim my toenails, obviously.
Image editing.
What else is the program for? I haven't used Photoshop since the '90s.
"What do you use this paintbrush for?"
"It makes colored marks on paper, duh."
What is your use case?
- Slapping text on a screenshot to make memes?
- Color grading photos?
- Digital painting?
- Crudely cutting out celebrity heads and slapping them on nude photos like some pervert with shaky hands, scissors, a glue stick, and some magazines?
- Marketing copy design?
- Professional portrait touch ups?
- Making those sweet ass 90s Rose Art airbrushed rainbow filled binder covers?
My <2 year old daughter "edits images" when I let her sit at my desk and slap around the keyboard and mouse with an image editor open. That doesn't mean that what she's doing is a comparable use case to Photoshop or other professional tools.
In the past thirty years, I have done everything from photo touch-up to color science to retro pixel art with Gimp. It would probably be faster to list the things I haven't done, if there's anything.
"What do you use your hammer for?"
Hammering.
Why didn't you just start by saying this?
also they didn't mention anything that couldn't be done in MS Paint lol. something Gimp still doesn't have - Content Aware Delete which was added in 2010...literally 15 years ago.
No, literally none of that could have been accomplished with MS Paint.
yes, yes it could. You went into no detail at all, so it's literally up to the reader's imagination. photo touch up could mean literally filling in freckles, well use the eyedropper tool and draw over them. Color science could mean checking the color profile of your monitor, the colors in paint are HSL. Retro pixel art is literally just drawing, you just don't get the help of pixel by pixel drawing, you'll have to manage that yourself. Your response indicated nothing about how you use GIMP, and honestly, I doubt you have used any really in depth features that Photoshop provides.
I used to do plenty of pixel art in MS Paint on Windows XP when I was young. Zoom in as far as it'll go, and the pencil tool works pixel by pixel. Just need a steady hand. You could even use the eyedropper tool, some modifier key I've forgotten, and the eraser tool to replace one color in the image with another if you were editing existing sprites.
So many silly recolor "OC"s. So. Many.
As I've previously stated, I haven't used Photoshop in a few decades.
Sure I do. My point is that it's quite capable if you actually use it.
I've touched it as much as y'all have touched the Gimp.
Weird, I usually keep mine in a cage in the basement.
So you use it constantly because it's so terrible?
Congrats on putting Linux on your old MBP, I guess
I reiterate my question.
If it's not adequate, how are you able to use it?
Sounds like Gimp is pretty adequate.
Every accusation is an admission, it seems.
Brevity.
Thanks to the likes of Proton, gaming on Linux is a hell of a lot better than it was ~5 years ago. You can actually do it now for the most part without to much fuss in my experience as long as you stick to Steam.
But once you leave Steam or get something brand new made by an EA type and have to lean on third party implementations of Proton or raw Wine to get things working it gets a lot worse.
"Nvidia GPU working"
If the driver feels like it, lol.
If the gpu doesn't burn
I know NVIDIA gets a lot of shit, but I've honestly never encountered a problem after using nvidia + Linux for well over a decade. Sure, it can be picky when it comes to kernel version, but deciding on a kernel that works well for you and the rest of the system is part of initial setup of a proper system anyway.
Same here. I really don't know what people do with their machines. I've had numerous nvidia gpus for ages without trouble (and litteraly decades of linux).
Never on laptops though, maybe that's where problems arise.
Laptops exclusively for decades here, so nope, that's not it.
There may be a lot of reasons why the problems don't apply to you guys. Perhaps you just use nouveau. Perhaps you prefer to not use cutting edge hardware. You might stuck to a distro that did an exceptional job. Perhaps it's also a little bit of selective perception (you might fix something that appears tiny to you, but is a system breaker for others who intimately familiar with Linux).
What I can say is, after using both desktops and laptops with many different distros for about a decade and now helping my family at moving over to Linux, that there absolutely are a thousand ways for the Nvidia driver to break. On one machine it decided to stop working with Wayland after a kernel upgrade after working fine with it beforehand. On another one the driver utility of Mint failed to install the driver. And on my laptop the driver failed due to Nvidia screwing up their repo for Tumbleweed with faulty dependencies. Also, does "Nvidia repo went offline for half a day, preventing setting up a new system" count? (It's hosted by Nvidia)
It's good to hear you lucked out, however for many users and distro maintainers those drivers are an absolute pain. Assumingly also for Nvidia given they began working on a completely new driver.
Well, there goes my pet theory then.
For me, my crime was trying to use Wayland with an Nvidia card before the explicit sync support was added in.
For real?? 😓 I was rockin a 3080ti on a 4k panel for a bit there and Wayland was impossible to run on Debian-KDE. Like as soon as I got to desktop everything stuttered in slow motion, dpi was janky as hell, and wouldn't respond to DPI config changes... And that was on a fresh install from Debian's KDE installation media! 🤔 did ya'll have to do any tinkering or was Wayland cruising for ya outta the box?
Had to sell that card as I got tf outta the US anyways (been maining my steam Deck on a dock, which has been fun!), but I'm thinking I'll go AMD for my next build. VR & Wayland are way better on an AMD GPU, from what I hear!
For me it works all the time on x11, on Wayland I still sometimes have some issues though.
If the average person can not use your OS, it is not ready. Period.
For example:
Windows - Open File Explorer > Add Network Drive > Find/plug it in > Enter creds > Bam. Ready to go and will automatically log you in at boot. Very nice, very intuitive UI.
Linux - Open Dolphin (or whatever) > Network > Add Network Folder/Find it > Enter creds > Does not automatically mount the drive when booting the computer back up > Must go into fstab to get it to automount > Stop, because that is ridiculous
In my own experience, I was able to get the hang of Windows with no one showing me how a computer ever worked, at the age of 10! Intuitive enough a child can do it.
On Linux, you have to read manuals/documentation, ask random (mostly rude) people on the internet, or give up because why the fuck would I want to go and enter 5 commands just to have something as simple as auto mount a network share? Not intuitive, therefore not easy to learn as you go.
I get it, Linux people like knowing how their computers operate, they like ensuring everything is working the way THEY want to, and that's awesome! What's not awesome is recommending Linux to the general populace and then getting upset at them for asking why they can't do something or why don't they just do these steps to do whatever it is they are having issues with. Then, you have a person who doesn't even know what a terminal is confused as hell because they were told Linux is so much better than Windows.
Until we get a more intuitive (GUI focused) way of doing what I would consider normal computer tasks, it will not ever be ready. That's just the way I see it.
I didn’t think Linux had enough ads and wasn’t commercialized enough but then I tried Ubuntu.
Fuckin gottem 🤣🤣 bullseye!
It certainly sounds like wayland is just about ripe. Any DE recommendations for a lifelong XFCE enjoyer like myself?
KDE. It's working very well with Wayland. I've been using both on my daily driver for a year now and it's come a long way since then. It was still a bit rough in the beginning but now I can't see myself going back. It's pretty polished.
I've been using KDE Plasma with Wayland for a couple of months and it's been really good. The apps that don't support it properly open as an X11 window inside Wayland, which is perfectly fine. I'm not switching back to X11 either haha
I'm not a Linux noob, but I've been out of the scene for a few years.
Recently tried debian with KDE and Wayland on a modern PC with a 3060. Just a default install.
My mouse could barely track across the screen, it was very choppy and stuttered like crazy.
This was in the last 6 months. I got it fixed by switching to a different compositor, but I shouldn't have had to do that. Even then I found YouTube to be super laggy.
It's just not ready.
well it's again more about nvidia driver for wayland u need manually do some tweaks such as https://github.com/CachyOS/CachyOS-Settings/blob/master/usr/lib/modprobe.d/nvidia.conf
I'm glad there are ways to get it working, and thank you for sharing it, but this doesn't qualify as "it just works, why are you idiots not switching from Windows when Linux just works".
This is directly why a lot of people don't take the arguments that Linux is ready for the average user seriously.
Yea like I said I'm not a total noob. I have built my own Linux From Scratch distro which is something I think most of the users on here would struggle with. All I'm saying is that it's not a totally smooth and hiccup free experience for normal people. I'm a grown man now and sometimes I just want shit to work cause I only have like an hour to game in the evening.
I will try Linux again for my daily driver once Win10 support is gone but I will likely try something other than Debian as others have suggested. Something more gaming centric.
opensuse leap has those settings by default. and people say it's not beginner friendly..
I had the exact same experience with Debian. The thing is, Debian is so many versions behind, it's really no surprise that you thought it wasn't ready yet. Try a less "stable" distro, you'll be surprised.
i am a Linux noob. i installed debian KDE wayland with an Nvidia card just like you.
i experienced similar issues. i couldn't set my refresh rate above 60Hz, my screen was really dim and stuttering, and video playback was lagging. worst of all my Minecraft framerate was abysmal! (<20fps default settings)
i read the dang wiki and got everything running smoothly in an afternoon
it's ready as fuck
i read the dang wiki and got everything running smoothly in an afternoon
that means it's not ready...
Yes I'm also capable of reading the wiki but it did nothing to help me.
My point stands that it's not "ready" for the average person. This is a Linux community of course people here know how to troubleshoot and get shit working.
Xfce next major release will have Wayland support so no need to even change!
Wfce?
Best news I've heard all year
I'm jumping on the kde train. The experience has been solid since plasma 6 and the Wayland jump last year, especially if you are already stuck in the Nvidia family.
KDE or Gnome.
Cinamon should be supporting it soon
This isn't really how this format works but ok
Unless computer companies include Linux with their PC's, it will never get general adoption.
No average user will follow instructions on how to boot Linux distro installer, especially when there are multiple steps needed to do so, such as on UEFI systems.
TBH, so many people I know don't even know how to use Windows. Or even a browser. iOS or maybe Android is their PC, all through apps and feeds.
Like, if I explained laptop BIOS access for installing Linux, I’d lose them before I even started.
iOS or maybe Android is their PC, all through apps and feeds.
So they're already using BSD and Linux.
Yes yes, Linux is a kernel, but it's pretty obvious from context they mean desktop operating systems using the Linux kernel.
Linux in the meme’s context has little relation to Apple or Android, unfortunately.
Have you guys decided which distro is the ready one?
At this point it should be obvious, btw
Obvious to whom exactly?
Hint: the answer lies within the last 3 letters of their post. And is probably a joke.
it may have been an obscure reference to the "btw I use Arch" meme
I got the joke!
Can someone explain to me like I'm a Windows user why Arch is so great? You know, over something like Ubuntu.
If you’re a “well acktchually” type of nerd who adores exceedingly granular control over things like choosing from twelve different versions of a driver via a command text box, then Arch is for you.
I say this as a user of an Arch-based OS; EndeavourOS is probably the closest to user-friendly as Arch gets but it still requires some nitty-gritty. Don’t worry too much about which choices you pick during installation though since it doesn’t really matter as much as it pretends to.
KDE Plasma is a desktop style close to that of windows that Arch usually defaults to, where Ubuntu’s typical desktop style is closer to Mac.
That said, once you get past the pain in the ass hurdle of figuring out your big basics in the command line, installing packages (programs/apps) is pretty easy. You can also use something called Flatpak which is like an App Store and usually easier for installing stuff.
This started out as a joke but turned into an essay. Thanks for bearing with me.
Basically you understand your installation better when you're the one who assembled your installation.
Distros like ubuntu ship with a bunch of preinstalled software. This means less setup for you to do but in the end you'll end up with some stuff you don't need or understand the purpose of.
And ofc arch is the opposite. It ships with the bare minimum and then everything else is up to you to set up
Enlighten me.
Is it Zorin?
Everyone loves to shit on Zorin but I like it. Fedora is way too slow with updates for me. Mint is nice, but Zorin feels more cohesive with its UX.
Mint? Arch? Anything you like
Redstar?
Hanna Montana Linux
Yes sir
Not yet but I'd at least narrow it down to Arch and Fedora. I don't think either of those is a bad choice.
Lol, Arch Linux is good to learn quickly if you like that. Suggesting it to non-experts however is an act of sadism. 😅
Can you use HDR in KDE? Only desktop Can you use HDR in game? Only with gamescope with dozen flags Can you use native wayland in proton? No unless you go through complex hoops.
"Finished" isn't worth a jack shit if it doesn't work out of the box
"Finished" is a relative concept that dependa on an individuals needs and wants. I don't care about HDR. I've been able to play every game I want virtually without a hassle for more than a decade. Wayland is nice but ultimately I don't care.
Linux has been finished for me since some time between 2011-2014.
I have been using hdr in kde for a few weeks now. I recently got a Dell oled monitor, and it has been working surprisingly well out of the box with hdr on plasma. I'm on Nobara btw
Double space
Before single newline
Proton in Wayland works well in Ubuntu out of the box. I don't think it matters if it is native or an X11 compatibility layer, since the games I played ran better than they did in Windows 7.
Don't worry guys, we'll never have VR
I can't tell if this is flippant?? steamvr works great for what I've used it for (mostly beat saber and taskmaster VR). using Nobara 40 rn
It's just not competitive with the quality of support on Windows. It's bad enough, comparatively, that if you're a heavy VR user it's worth keeping a Windows install just for that use. There was a long post on /r/linuxgaming a few weeks back rolling up all the issues into one post, I'll try to find it. One of the best comments in the post was by a top-ranked Beatsaber player actually; he said that latency among other things was the reason he has kept dual booting -- only using Windows for VR gaming. I know that I just gave up on playing Elite: Dangerous in VR successfully because I didn't want to fuss with dual booting.
ahhh yeah I'm not good at beat saber at all, I just think it's fun. it's easy for my smooth brain to just be happy that vr works at all 🤣
Did you get audio working? I could never get sound out of the headset.
Yeah same here! I had a brief moment where I thought the audio coming out of my remote desktop on my phone was the headset... Dreams shattered 😭
Yeah not sure of their setup, but I had a big list of mandatory things that needed to work before I erased my windows partitions. VR was one of them. More specifically VR full room and VR sitting with my HOTAS and wheel setups. Everything game related works perfectly. Some VR applications I haven't gotten working or found replacements for like Virtual Desktop. (If anyone has any suggestions, that'd be amazing.)
But long story short, VR works and it works well. I've played on both an Nvidia 3090 and an AMD 7900 XTX. I'm using Ubuntu 24.10 with Gnome Wayland.
On occasion it complains about gnome not supporting vr. I just reboot and it works fine.
We have: https://lvra.gitlab.io/
Ah shit this rules! Cheers, yo!
I agree with Linus Torvalds. Linux is too fragmented. This makes consistent software deployment and support expensive and far too varied. Maintaining documentation alone requires an unlimited number of distros. From a user's perspective, I really think Linux needs a universal install method like .exe. No user should ever need to use the CLI install software, no matter their distribution. Radarr, for example, is a very popular home media server application. It is one-click install on Windows. It is fucked on Linux.
everyone in the comments is talking about linux, not a single comment about how this meme format is used exactly wrong
I'm still waiting for ThanosLinux that's based on Ubuntu and only uses Snaps.
HDR was solved?
Linux isn't ready.
While many things will work 'out of the box', many won't. Hell, for like 3 months HDR was causing system-wide crashes on Plasma for Nvidia cards, so the devs just disabled the HDR options until there was an upstream fix.
There are still a host of resume-from-sleep issues, Wayland support is still spotty, and most importantly - not every piece of software will run.
Linux is my daily driver, I have learned to live and love the jank. My wife uses windows and does not want to be confronted with a debugging challenge 5% of the time when she turns on her computer, and I think that is fair.
These kinds of posts paper over lots of real issues and can be counterproductive. If someone jumps into the ecosystem without understanding, these kinds of posts only set them up for frustration and disappointment.
On the 5 distros i used, i had different problems that would make normal people uninstall the OS
I could ignore them because the benefits outweigh the problems, other people probably couldnt because they want a stable computer, not cool features
Many games still a pain in the arse to boot, even on Bottles.
Is fractional scaling a standard feature in GNOME now? Last time I needed it, it was still an experimental feature I had to enable.
And the text rendering (at least for me with flatpaks) is completely fuzzy garbage.
And electron is shit, so you have to enable that experimental ozone thing, which kills off ibus somehow, meaning I have to decide between blurry chromium/electron apps and being able to write in Japanese.
Don't even get me started on VST plugins for music production (definitely far from ready)
VST are windows-specific by design. Use LADSPA. It supports Шindows too.
Sure, tell that the suppliers
same with vrr
Unlike with fractional scaling, fortunately, it seems to just work™, at least on my machine. I'm honestly not sure what's left to do with it before putting it in the Settings app by default.
How many people actually need or use fractional scaling? Don't most people have displays that are around 1080p?
I've never used fractional scaling but it's obvious you don't understand that it's not about resolution but about screen size+resolution. On small displays with big resulutions like modern laptops a fractional scaling is absolutely essential unless you want to squint your eyes even with 20/20 vision.
Pretty sure it's enabled by default on Fedora 41.
Discord screensharing is working on Wayland now? :O
HDR isn't all that great for gaming yet, in my opinion. It takes too much tweaking just to get it working, because apparently games/proton still aren't able to natively pass that metadata to Wayland?
Running every applicable game or all of Steam through Gamescope brings its own problems with how it handles the window, so I end up never using it at all. I just want it to be as simple as it is on Windows, man! 😩
Also, VRR seems to make my screen flicker at an unnoticeably-high-but-still-irritating rate at random whenever I alt+tab, never figured that out yet...
Finally, I do wish there was a simpler, more paint.net-like editor rather than GIMP, and I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but otherwise basically every thing on that list of features works well enough for me.
I worry about Wayland for the features it drops from X11. Wayland will never have xdotool support, due to its security model. I worry about onscreen keyboards for drawing tablets and screen readers for the blind.
This is not true, ydotool already works and there's nothing against that in the wayland design, it just works differently than x, not not at all
gnome is working on an accessibility protocol for wayland called newton, check it out.
ydotool is missing a lot of features. It emulates an input device, so it can only send inputs to the active window. xdotool can send keystrokes to non-active windows, and has features for searching for a window to send to. xdotool can minimize, dismiss, or move windows around.
I'm aware of newton. It's a work in progress, though, and doesn't have as many features as X11 accessibility has. Although it might have enough features eventually, I worry that X11 will be deprecated by operating system vendors before that.
kdotool can do all of those if you're using KDE, but there is no universal solution, not yet.
HDR with an Nvidia GPU?
The "extra steps" didn't make it work for me sadly. I actually tried referencing this thread for solutions a little while ago too, but no luck 😕
This dude is using it without problems. https://lemm.ee/post/55423985/18232530
That's great for that dude, and I legitimately hope I can use it without problems on my own system one day too
What about VRR on mutli-monitor setups?
It works now.
Works on desktop for me but no games as of yet...
Generally my experience as well. With gamescope, I've been able to get games to make the HDR setting available instead of being grayed out, but it's clearly still not actually displaying an HDR image when I turn it on.
Linux has been ready since 2008. Literally not had a single real problem since Ubuntu 7.10 kept turning my monitor off while booting. Everything just works and has for 17 years now.
Every problem I see people have now (IRL not online) is 'I don't like the default theme' tier nonsense.
The "works on my machine" certification sure seems like an amazing barometer for usability.
This is unfortunately very common when interacting with Linux users. I've had general issues on Linux that never happened on Windows, and you mostly just get replies saying it works for them and everything is dandy. That's great! It's not how I use MY computer though, so...
It might be nonsense to you, but that's the first thing people see. No matter how amazing you business is, if your business card is a handwritten phone number on a piece of toilet paper, nobody will call.
Yup. If the theme is causing a mental hang up for laymen, then it’s an issue whether you agree with it or not.
But I suspect it’s more than that, and Linux stans are playing down the shitty UI.
Fractional Scaling (Done)
Can you please tell my computer that? 😄
Calling Linux's version of DVR a "viable video editor" is rich given that a. It doesn't work on most distros (it's designed for Rocky Linux. It throws a fit on any other distro. You need to jerry-rig it), requiring a whole thang to get it to play nice; and that b. It doesn't support any of the video formats and codecs people actually want to use, for seemingly no reason, since the Windows version supports those formats just fine.
KDENLiVe is like, fine for a simple project, but you quickly start hitting your head on its limitations. Plus its UI sucks just in general.
Video editing is the reason I keep a small Windows install, because sometimes I need to do video stuff for work and -- Sorry. No. No Linux video editor even compares to the likes of Premiere and Vegas. They're still barely above Windows Movie Maker.
GIMP is a perfectly serviceable image editor, and yes, GIMP 3 is a major improvement -- But it's kinda missing a lot of things Photoshop users take for granted, and its UI and hotkeys are very idiosyncratic, which makes migrating very hard (... I sorta have the opposite problem though. I learned image editing on GIMP and all my muscle memory is GIMP oriented, so even when I'm on my 'time to work' windows install, I only really open PS if I desperately need one of its exclusive functions)
All on linux DVR https://youtu.be/lm51xZHZI6g
Cool! But what does that have to do with ease of use compared to proprietary DVR tools?
Edit: Wasn't able to listen to any if the audio, just scrubbed through the video, read the title and description.
Still no viable alternative to Adobe lightroom imo
Can someone more plugged in than me show me what I gotta do to get that 'Discord Wayland sharing' working? I literally installed Vencord a month ago because every time I tried to share a window or my screen on discord it would hard crash.
Can't wait for Wayland to be ready in cinnamon. Possibly mean that literally as X is a laggy mess with fractional scaling. Maybe fedora with gnome will be my first distro hop.
As someone with extremely limited Linux experience I feel like I just read another language.
"Can’t wait for Frooperdum to be ready in meeperpeep. Possibly mean that literally as Momo is a laggy mess with Weeble trailing. Maybe goomervoobo with hermanin will be my first sprunk popple."
:P
As a Linux user, I'll be the first to concede that a lot of terms and names are.... weird. It wouldn't surprise me if half of those made up words you just posted as satire are actual software projects.
Anyway, as for the ones you didn't understand, I can easily explain them for you (in windows-friendly terms) if you truly want to know. I just try to avoid unsolicited infodumping.
Not the original commenter, but we need more level-headed Linux users like you that can explain to us noobies/dabblers of Linux things we don't understand. For that, I want to say that I appreciate you!
Levelheaded might be stretching it, but I appreciate the compliment. Thank you.
Honestly if you're still using Momo I pity you 💀
I'll never forget this tech headline from a the early days of android:
Google Nexus Android Ice-cream Sandwich Guinea Pig
I only started six months ago and still consider my experience to be limited. These are just the names of some flavours of Linux, desktop environments, and display servers.
+1 for kdenlive!! Kickass software
wayland clipboard
Lol
Also kdenlive was still a pain for me to work with, but that was mostly because of its layout, shorcuts, and wording of some features.
Otherwise yeah, we've made it pretty far.
Discord wayland sharing where? I'm using vencord but games still stop moving.
Discord canary currently has it afaik. Haven't tested it myself
it still makes games stop for me so I guess I'll wait a bit longer
It works like a charm for me with Discord Canary. Discord Stable doesn't seem to have it yet though?
Do they also stream audio now?
Yes, but it's not application specific like you can get on Windows. So only system audio. I'm not sure if it excludes discord, as my sound setup separates chat and game audio
Also had issues with discord a few days ago. Trying to share anything (monitor, program) crashed discord
Discord does still not work properly, the meme is wrong. They had the support for a short while and then pulled it again because it didn't properly work.
For me it constantly keeps requesting sharing permission and I need to close discord to get rid of it.
Using spectacle and vencord (or element for matrix) works fine for me on plasma, although element has a much lower bitrate sadly
HDR is almost there not quite though.
Dolby Atmos is the other thing I'd love to see working
Plain 9.1 surround works fine with pipewire, and you can pretty easily hack together a virtual surround for stereo headphones that works pretty great. I’m even using a preset that claims to be atmos, although that seems unlikely to me lol
Yeah I'm using that preset too.
I just miss the Dolby Atmos on Windows which outputs a Dolby Atmos signal for all content (similar to DDL or DTS Connect).
Not too huge of a deal breaker for me though.
The fact is, if my favourite game doesn't run on Linux, Linux is dead to me.
Similarly to some software that has no direct alternatives.
Which sucks.
gimp 3.0 still at release candidate, tho. Isn't that like advanced beta?
NSYNC is also released candidate
e: NTSYNC, not the 90s boy band...
Which distro has full HDR support?
Every single one that ships Wayland compositor that supports it. I'd say „finished” is still a bit of a stretch though, since HDR support in apps is still quite limited and the only way to play Windows games with HDR is via Gamescope.
Last time I checked only KDE and Gnome support HDR. (For gnome it is still experimental)
Also Hyprland… Yes, that’s the key - the desktop, not the distribution, though the „stable” distros don't yet ship stuff new enough for this.
A what compositor - try to explain to people, that just want to open a freaking word document, what you just said. Explain to them why libre office completely messes up the formating. "Via gamescope", "Wayland", "wine" whatever. Doesn't sound ready to me.
Stick with Gnome or KDE if you're looking for polished features that you don't need to mess with on CLI. But I think the commenter was just saying the app needs to support HDR as well (both Windows and Linux).
That is a disconnect the Linux community has. A complete lack of understanding of how little everyday, well known, base terminology is understood by newbies asking questions. They want to help, but are very bad at it until the asked has a certain level of understanding, and people don't want to make it over that hump without help. It has always been a roadblock into onboarding more Linux users, and a wall many bounce off of.
Yes, because back when I was learning almost 20 years ago I was able to google terms and read stuff for myself and it was also requirement for posting on forums, yet I was still getting a lot of help from the community. Times has changed it seems, so did the culture. Should I always assume ignorance and lack of interest? And now before I saw your comment I responded more comprehensively anyway, because why not, I'm not mad or anything. Should I take more time to write the response the first time around? Uh maybe idk
I wasn't calling you out or anything, but yeah, culture changes, what people are used to changes. Also, people have always moved to the path of least resistance through history...hell we don't use metric in the US because the easier metric system was too hard for boomers and change is frightening.
"Linux totally does this thing!"
"Cool, I want to use Linux to do that, what do I need to make it work?"
*Gestures vaguely at nothing in particular, refuses to elaborate, leaves.*
And do you really think that someone who just want to open a word document need to know about HDR ? Sure, if you want to dig into details, will become way more complex, but this kind of use is the exception more than the rules among PC user
anyone that wants to use their computer for basic things like netflix or watching any content at all will notice the difference. They won't be able to tell you it's HDR, but they will think "why does this look worse than it did on windows"?
For what it's worth, I was using linux for a full 2 years before I worked out whether or not I had wayland. -- Because it just doesn't matter for normal everyday use. And I've never even heard of 'gamescope'.
The technobabble that you're concerned about is only relevant to people who are interested in looking into the details of how things work. Its a bit like talking about the Windows registry, or the many settings you can change with 'group policy', or NTFS, or comparing versions directX. For most people, that stuff just doesn't matter - even if it is a core part of how the system works.
People that just want to open word documents don't need HDR. What's your point?
Have you ever opened a word document that's more than just a single unformated paragraph on libre office. I know it's not a "Linux" issue, but people don't care. Of over 80% of the world uses Windows and Microsoft Office and the Word document somebody sent me looks completely messed up an the inlined table is all over the place or the line break happens on a different row than on the original document it's not ready. And don't say "pdf". People don't care. Karen could open it on her PC with a double click on her machine and on your machine it's completely broken, why should I sent you a pdf. I just sent the same document to Karen and it worked perfectly.
My point is that Linux Desktop is far from "ready" for regular people.
What's any of that got to do with HDR though? I'm so confused.
Desktop environments or window managers that support Wayland (one of the two displaying systems for Linux, newer one with aim to replace the obsolete one) and already implemented color management protocol in their compositors (programs that compose the image that is being displayed).
In essence, everything that has recent version of Plasma 6 or current version of Hyperland is able to do HDR. Soon there will be new version of GNOME that does that too.
Sooo… not Linux Mint, not Debian stable, not Ubuntu LTS.
as far as I know you still have to set environment variables and use gamescope with a flag to enable it for games, but general desktop stuff anything with kde and I think also gnome will have a checkbox in the display settings.
What Debian based distro with systemd and KDE but without snap could be recommended for use in offices, companies?
How about Debian?
Its funny how Debian is rock solid on its own, but there are several distros that claim to be based on Debian, but significantly better (without actually being better for even the most inexperienced users).
Which is the exact opposite of Arch, where there are several distros that make it actually usable for the average person (EOS user BTW).
Debian stable has the "issue" of having pretty old KDE Plasma and Gnome versions which still miss a lot of the great Wayland features like HDR support, proper VRR support on multi-monitor with different refreshrates or proper fractional scaling
just a heads up since some people actually were waiting for this to land on linux
(and you can't update them via newer Flatpaks)
This is fair, but if you want those things then there are better options for you.
Endeavour and Tumbleweed come to mind.
Otherwise, wait a year or three for Debian to get them.
ETA: The request was for office use, so I believe many of those features wouldn't be super important.
Thanks for the laugh
Debian testing or maybe Fedora (not Debian based)
Wayland nvidia is completely busted
I use Wayland with Nvidia (proprietary beta driver) every day (including for applications running over Wine) and have no issues.
So while some may still have issues, I certainly wouldn't call it "completely busted".
Wayland nvidia is somewhat busted
Better now but still has issues.
For gaming I have to agree. It's very 50/50.
Ever since I stopped gaming as much, linux has become infinitely more fitting to me. My main driver is Mint 21.3, it does everything i want it to. Its fun, and a great learning experience. Though obviously you gotta want to learn how to fix things if things go wrong, which they still do, but mostly at the beginning. After installing the right graphics drivers, and fixing touchpad scroll speed, everythings smooth sailing.
The thing that's fucking me up in the last month since I switched is the fact that when I press Windows Key + P to switch Displays to just my second monitor (when I want to use my consoles), switching it back causes KDE to count the monitors as separated for some reason. Like they are virtually spaced apart, so I'm stuck in one monitor instead of being able to use both. It also resets my second monitor to the primary one for some reason. Very strange, never an issue on Windows.
"Linux is ready" - which distro? Fractional (sometimes even non-fractional) scaling is a mess. Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff. Linux Desktop is for nerds and definitely not ready.
Yes it works fine if you know what you are doing but most people don't. There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds. It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a "non-computer-person" decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?
Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices, Linux is not ready. If I need the freaking terminal because I want to see the day of the week next to the date it's not ready.
windows took away moving the task bar. I like it on the left. now I have 3. 2 on top and 1 on the left. xfce on ubuntu. some assembly required
I'd love to move to Linux but I play some old ass games that I've no idea if they'll work. I missed out a lot of games since my PC was pure ass and it's just something I like doing.
For eg I want to play OG Deus Ex (never done before), and do a replay of Morrowind with fancy mods. I also recently replayed Splinter Cell because I felt like it.
Requirement: let me play the video games I want to play that have anticheat
A stiff requirement
I wished undervolting nvidia gpus would work.
dual monitor on wayland....still f'd up
It is FINALLY Linux year!!! 😆
Yes, affinity suite and dxo photolab or true alternatives is whats keeping me from switching :/
You getting downvoted for this is hilarious.
It would. At least we've go Photopea which can cover most needs. Probably still not a viable alternative for professionals... depending on what you need to do.
That's never going to happen
Fractional scaling doesn't work well for me during initial startup of sdm. It's fine after that though until I reboot.
Where Gimp 3?
Only up to the 570?
I think it's referring to the driver version 570, which isn't stable yet but working fine in beta.
Ah, that would make sense. Thank you.
I think only up FROM the 570 is more likely.
That would be a very odd way of writing it.
Perhaps, but what I do know is modern NVidia GPUs do work on Linux. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My friend has a laptop with -- Some low-tier mobile RTX-2000 series card, idfk -- And games on it on Linux.
Hence "seems more likely that cards older than the 500 series are still borked since no one cares"
I know, I've got Nvidia GPUs in multiple Linux boxes.
My point is still that it makes no sense.
Linux has been ready for the last twenty and I am not afraid to say it. Before moving over, I used to be the biggest Window$ fanboy you could find. I would literally preach at the smallest opportunity available and make everyone in a 10 meters radius around me groan and roll their eyeball so hard they would fall off their skull.
Then I go and buy a new laptop that I was told didn't have a pre-installed OS after paying for it. Because I had zero extra money to go and buy a copy of Window$, I ask a coworker to hook me up with something and in the time it took me to go from the store to my job, I had a SUSE Linux disk waiting for me. Back in 2005.
I unpack the laptop, we boot it to have access to the CD drive and the damn thing starts to boot into an unannounced Window$ Vi$ta. Apparently there was a Window$, unfortunately it was the wrong version, because at this point in time, for me, it was either Window$ XP or nothing. My coworker shows me how to setup up SUSE, which took all of two hours to achieve, including mannually configuring sound and graphics card. The machine is now dual booting.
Out of morbid curiosity, I play a bit on Vi$ta. It's slow, clunky, things are not where they should be. The machine burns through the battery in under 2 hours, under conservative energy settings, while under an OS I was previously completely unfamilliar with I feel more at ease, using GNOME as my desktop and the battery management is good enough that those two hours of battery life get stretched closer to three. This is roughly a 50% increase.
Remember I was this big fanboy? No M$Office, no WinAmp, no WinZip, no nothing. I'm lost. Right? Wrong. With zero effort, I get all the software I require for my daily life and then some. And it comes pre-installed. No need to rely on shady websites to get software. No hassle. No headaches. It just works.
Fast forward today.
I have zero machines in my home with Window$. I don't use it. I still know how to but I don't. I don't recommend it. I only advise using FOSS, if the person is a terminal locked-in Window$ user.
So... Linux is ready.
No more excuses bird!
I still haven’t got discord wayland screen sharing working. (No audio)
Still on vencord in the interim
Wish it was ready. I have it dual booted with windows. Until these things work for me I can't permanently switch:
Adobe H264/5 in davinci free Battle.net working (I can't get it to work even with tutorials. Works in windows) AMD adrenaline/Nvidia control panels and shadow play. AMD frame gen.
Half my peripherals not working/having linux software support is a major blocker for me. Plus a ton of QOL stuff or ways of doing stuff that I've gotten used to on Windows.
That's wild. What peripherals are you using that don't work in Linux?
Logitech doesn't have a version of their software for Linux so I can't modify my G502 wireless mouse and Pro X Wireless headset (horrible name) at all nor, more importantly, check their battery life.
My Xbox controller's dongle doesn't work either (tried to install the Xone driver but couldn't get it to work with secure boot after many hours of trying).
I never got to trying to run VR on Linux cuz I always got frustrated before I could get to that, but I've heard a lot of times that it just doesn't work well or at all on Linux.
Then you add on all the small things that I like how Windows does more than Linux (or at least any distro I tried) and I just can't see the point in switching.
My OS is supposed to be a tool that lets me use my computer how I want. When I have to spend half of my time tinkering with it to do what I want it to do, I don't see the point anymore.
I like how "GPU working" as a checkbox metric ties it all together.
I haven't made the switch yet for the gaming PC because of Apex Legends, Fornite, and Valorant. Also, my Fanatec peripherals don't work with Linux. Also, Nvidia frame gen doesn't currently appear supported.
And it still doesn't work with my NVIDIA GPU causing my monitors to freeze and stop working.
Fractional scaling is still a mess
I dont know wtf youre using. KDE has it perfect.
Hah. I just saw this on the back of some other guy berating me for complaining that Steam exploded when trying to get it to acknowledge Steam libraries on NTFS drives. I'll stop complaining the moment my stuff works.
But hey, I hear my HDR monitors are supposed to have stopped artifacting out on the latest Nvidia drivers I installed last week, so if I ever get Steam to work again maybe I can give that another try and see if I can scratch that one from my routine.
Meh, never mind me. I'm just cranky from all the troubleshooting. I really thought I had this down semi-permanently a couple weeks ago.
I'm really trying to remember what I did, but I got steam playing ball with my NTFS drives without issue...
Both on steamdeck using an SD card formatted to NTFS, and on a manjaro/windows dual boot with an NTFS shared drive...
Genuinely don't remember how I did it... I want to say something to do with symlinks...
I assume you've come across and tried this: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/wiki/Using-a-NTFS-disk-with-Linux-and-Windows
Yeah. It was working for me for a while, and then some combination of some drives refusing to mount and some Nvidia driver issues ended up in a state where it doesn't anymore.
I tried removing all related Steam packages and starting over but it didn't quite do it, and I draw the line at reinstalling the entire OS. I could do a more thorough scrub and start over step by step, but man...
Hence the cranky stuff.
No legitimate complains allowed. Didn't you hear that Linux is perfect and there's absolutely nothing that needs improvement?
Maybe don't use proprietary Microsoft formats on other operating systems
Ah, here we go again.
Gotta keep Windows for work reasons, I'm not rebooting every time I want to play a game and there are terabytes of stuff in there I'm not duplicating.
So yeah, I'm going to use whatever format works on both (which at this point is MS's option, I'd take a good ext4 implementation on Windows, too).
And, you know, if that isn't an option then maybe Linux isn't ready? Maybe that cue card had stuff written on both sides, eh?
Seriously, what's with the Linux community defaulting to "oh, you tried to do this officially supported thing on Linux? You idiot". If I'm not supposed to use NTFS on Linux maybe don't include a driver for it that mounts all my Windows drives out of the box. In the meantime I'll continue my entirely unreasonable expectation that built-in features of the OS actually work.
For the record, it is Steam that's borked. The NTFS driver just randomly sets the dirty flag on the drives and forces me to manually clean them up every now and then. I could live with that if it was the only issue.
I used only Linux for years... guess i not care about games.
I wish I could use linux, most (not all) of the apps I use regularly are better on a linux distro. I self host a lot of services on linux machines, and god I would love to rid myself of Microsoft. But my main computer OS? still stuck with Windows.
I just (a few years ago) upgraded my graphics card and at that time NVidia had a better deal then AMD.... I'm not sst to upgrade for at least 5 years still. Every distro I've tested have weird problems that cannot be solved by a few lines of code, all seem to point to Nvidia, but it's hard to say without testing without.
My main computer is working as is with Windows, until there is a linux distro that just works with nvidia, I'll stick to it and the many tools I have to keep my things as private from Microsoft as I can. One of the many problems I've had is the task bar/desktop/windows hang/freezes, have to go in the terminal to reboot or force a shutdown. If I have to reboot everytime I want to use the computer and reset all my apps, when the only times it happens now is when windows forces it : not for me thanks.
all wife needs is Mahjong and shopping. not like I need to run Mine Sweeper. just a browser with Internet. Most could not install any operating system so charge for the install labor. lan-splaining is a waste of time. bring a book if Mom needs her windows fixed. thinking about putting her on linux when her machine finally pukes.
NvidiaGPU working
what world do you live in? I have even newer driver than that and it's still buggy!
Microkernel when?
A debugger with an easy to use GUI?
I really want to transition to Linux but the dual boot issues that risk bricking my windows installation (I really have to use for work and for gaming) really put me off.. Is it even fixable? I'm not blaming Linux but just wondering if there's even a solution for what (from what I read) seems quite an serious issue and a deterrent for adoption..
Install Mint. After the updates I tried to install Tailscale. Then proceed to uninstall Linux because I have install using terminal.
The second I am forced to use terminal, I'm uninstalling.