Banned from comms I haven't posted to in months because I said "Dragonfucker isn't a gender" on another instance - AOS for Lemmy.World - A generic Lemmy server for everyone to use.

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Banned from comms I haven't posted to in months because I said "Dragonfucker isn't a gender" on another instance

1y 3mon ago by lemmy.world/u/PugJesus in modabuse@lemmy.sdf.org

The Dragon saga is likely the dumbest fedi drama I've witnessed in the last two years I've been a resident here. If one major goal is fighting the stigma of mental illness within the community, this ain't it.

The... what?

There is a minority of the Trans community that can best be summarized by the observation that “calling everyone they/them as a rule” is unacceptable to this subsection. You must be utterly inclusive to everyone, without hesitation and unquestioningly - first it was someone demanding to be called a goddess, then someone insisting they identified as a dragon. To the uninformed outsider (me), they sound exactly like that one theater kid every school had, but it’s just as likely that they’re just a troll taking the piss out of the inclusivity of the community, which is almost funnier.

I think most people can agree if you don’t wanna be your birth assigned gender, sure! Go for it. But I’m not playing along with someone’s sexual fantasy, I’m just gonna use they/them. .blahaj admins feel differently, and that’s their prerogative - 196 already fractured from that subsection over this issue.

196 fractured due to the mods trying to force close the blahaj comm in favor of .world. Calling that because of drag is... An interesting take when even the mods themselves (who did all this in the shittiest of ways) said it wasn't the issue, and even referenced other shitty takes of theirs as examples.

They fractured in the first place because the mods had issues with the admin of the instance, so they decided to move to a different instance. It fractured further because the mods didn't say shit to the users, they just moved, which, rightfully, pissed a lot of people off.

Yeah, and chose the worst possible instance to go to, to boot.

Oh, c'mon, there are worse ones out there.

.world is the most aggressively mid of the instances. It's gruel. It's tasteless, it's lumpy and uneven, and sometimes you feel like the cook didn't know what the fuck they were doing when you find a husk in your spoonful. And, considering the nature of gruel, the cook very likely didn't know what the fuck they were doing.

But it's not poison and it's not dogshit, and there's a lot of it to go around.

But yeah, the whole move was a catastrophe.

Oh, c'mon, there are worse ones out there.

I mean sure, but those are kind of obviously terrible choices. But .world is the bottom of bottom rungs for lgbtqia friendliness and protections, especially considering past behavior of admins and their ever changing terms, including the "teach the controversy" crap that got pulled to get re-worded.

Of all the possible choices that aren't an instance thats just chock full of Nazis and defederated from just about anything else, yeah, .world is a pretty shit choice.

I thought we already settled this on r/TumblrInAction… wait, what year is this, 2015?

I would avoid bringing up tumblrinaction with how they turned into a cesspool of genuine horrific transphobia.

The user you are talking about was banned. So you are wrong about the "utterly inclusive" thing.

196 split because the original mods made the decision to move to the most hated instance, .world, without consulting the community. So you are wrong about the troll in question causing this.

I've never looked, but blahj feels like one of those Reddit communities where you can go and post in good faith but still get banned for some esoteric reason that only makes sense to the moderators and the 4 people who've made it their life's work to eliminate the behavior from all of society.

Like, I read a post from a guy who got banned for having the temerity to suggest that, perhaps, harassing literal children who were streaming Harry Potter on Twitch wasn't helping trans people and people should instead do something like donate to the Trevor Project. Reason for ban: transphobia

At some point you just have to recognize that some moderators are acting in bad faith and playing petty high school social games using moderator powers.

Love that blahaj is still supporting the anti-trans troll. Very wholesome of them to reduce an entire class of people to attack helicopters

Blahaj has literally gone from "attack helicopter jokes are transphobic" to "not taking attack helicopter jokes seriously is transphobic". This is a genuinely distressing turn of events from one of the largest trans-friendly spaces on the internet.

the troll was banned long before OP was get your facts straight

...but not for their anti-trans trolling. Blahaj still explicitly supports attack helicoptors.

prove it

You can check the modlog. The ban reason is always included.

"But facts get in the way of my circle jerk about how neopronuns are icky and I dont gotta respect the trans people disagreeing with me!"

“But facts get in the way of my circle jerk about how neopronuns are icky and I dont gotta respect the trans people disagreeing with me!”

Ironic, considering it's been explicitly pointed out numerous times that neopronouns were never the issue, and right now you lot are dogpiling a trans person for disagreeing with you in YePowerTrippingBastards, calling them a fascist, a transphobe, and a transmedicalist.

Just got banned myself. 🤷

Welcome to the club.

Repeated gatekeeping

lo-fuckin-l the hypocrisy.

I thought draconic was better than that tbh.

e: also I think instance banning people for things said off instance is a shit thing to do. Your rules don't apply elsehwhere. Stay in your lane, ada.

If you watched a guy with an AK walking down the street and entering your neighbors' houses one by one, some bullet noises, then walking to the next house, I bet you would shoot him before he enters your property, if you had the opportunity.

Try staying in your lane in that situation. It's just being proactive.

Now I don't have any context on this guy past the title of the post, or what they mean by "repeated" gatekeeping, but just given the title of the post, them having the opinion that saying "dragonfucker is not a gender" is gatekeeping is laughable. So I'm hoping something else was going on for my own sanity, because this is sad.

That is quite an extreme example for something so mundane in reality.

I had to debate upoting lol

It was just the first example I thought of to make the point.

No actual humans were hurt in the making of this metaphor. ^_^

Yes they were. I know what you did.

Lol it's fine, just if you were trying to convince someone you'd have a hard time winning them over with such an extreme example.

I can see your heart is in the right place haha

Oh no! You got banned from toxic echo chambers! Whatever will you do?

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

I mean, I haven't posted in any of those comms in months. It's no big loss. But it also demonstrates that stopping my participation on those comms was the right choice to begin with, I think - the instance admins are at odds with what I regard to be basic facts ("Dragons aren't real", "Human beings are human beings").

Not enough that I'm trans-positive, NB-positive, and genderfluid-positive. One must be Dragon-positive.

Not enough that I’m trans-positive, NB-positive, and genderfluid-positive. One must be Dragon-positive.

It seems crazy to me how you can be casually labelled "transphobic" and instance banned for having a perfectly rational discussion about neopronouns on another instance, even though you have consistently not misgendered anyone, including Drag. I guess the "pre-crime" thought police are on the case. It's not enough that one follows their instance rules, no questioning or discussion of the rules will be tolerated either. Oh well, it's their loss.

The admin summon was one of the more bizarre parts.

Yeah I agree with you on that count too.

Sometimes I will very pettily ping someone I had a previous disagreement with, if something reminds me of them, or what we argued about. Is that weird?

I don't think that that's weird (for arguments it is a bit petty, but I also understand the urge to be petty - 'It'll never happen', huh? READ IT AND WEEP), but calling an admin from another instance and requesting to ban someone who doesn't go to your instance at all is.

It's like being the weird guy who calls the cops to report everything their neighbor does.

And in this case, the cops made an arrest because the pile of leaves in the yard were in the shape of a pentagram (displaying intent to Unlawfully Summon, no doubt).

Question, if someone pinged an admin to ban someone for being something dbzer0 doesn't want/like, would that be a step too far?

You want me to ban Kerfuffled?

Kerfuffled™

I just got banned from blahaj for mistrademarking you, hope you're happy.

I'm happy I called dibs and that's definitely how trademarks work.

No, just asking as they are my admin.

It would be bizarre on the part of the pinger, at the very least.

Fair

Why does this feel like a gotcha?

It's not. If someone pinged you or the admins for violating the instance rules, would that be accepted?

Well it's one way to do it, but a report is usually preferable imo.

It's important to consider that misgendering isn't the only kind of hurt trans people can experience online. Ada explicitly created LBZ to be a comfortable space for all trans people, and part of that includes addressing the agony that is logging in to see yours and other's validity questioned at every turn.

I agree, Pug is not a transphobe. I think Ada agrees with me too. That's why the modlog doesn't show "transphobe," it says "gatekeeping." I agree that the users calling Pug a transphobe are taking it too far. Pug is simply a bad ally that refuses to admit trans people might know how they want to be treated and the kind of space they want to exist in.

I guess I don't understand the correlation between being transgendered, and wanting to cosplay a totally different and fantastical species?

"Not understanding" doesnt mean "dont respect them" though.

I don't get it either, but it costs me absolutely nothing to use a neopronoun or anything else.

If you dont understand, you could either try to understand, or just use someone's neopronouns and move on. Or not reply at all.

That wasn't my question though. Why are they getting lumped together?

It was more of "being a dick for no reason" than a question, and I'm not an expert.

That said, I'd say because their physical body doesn't match how they feel on the inside. Which is definitely something trans folks experience.

Okay, I can see the overlap with that last part. Thank you for the perspective.

They are getting lumped together because that's the context of what OP did. OP has received mod action twice, both times for making directed commentary on the validity of another person's gender (aka disrespecting).

But yeah, I think curbstickle misread your intent--you are both in the right here there's just some miscommunication, Hopefully this clarifies. :)

Aren't species and gender two wildly different things? Or am I misunderstanding the larger context?

Or am I misunderstanding the larger context?

Yes, you are missing the larger context, but I appreciate the question. :) The larger context is that the LBZ admin is an older trans woman herself, and knows how the patterns of transphobia play out in online spaces. She recognizes that, whether or not Person X is "genuine" or "valid" in their gender identity, allowing people to scream "Identity X isn't real" or similar in response to their mere existence is dangerous in that it makes the site worse and more toxic for every "genuine" or "valid" trans person.

Whether or not species and gender are two different things is largely irrelevant here, because we're simply talking the context of keeping a sane and non-violent space for trans people. Most spaces take a more relaxed approach because they are not made by or for trans people, and that's totally fine. But Ada, as a trans person, has chosen the more unique method of just blanket-banning any questioning or directed criticism of other users' gender (which she labels "gatekeeping") in order to keep the space peaceful and respectful.

And the thing is, whatever you or OP thinks about it, it works. That's why you'll see so many people defend Ada. Are there some assholes out there intentionally making a mockery of gender diversity? For sure! But does it help trans people to throw insults and yell about it in their spaces, instead of quietly blocking and reporting? For many, the answer is a resounding no.

Genuinely hope this helps! I get the vibe you are asking these questions with sincerity, so I am putting in the effort for ya here. :)

Thank you, I think I understand what you're getting at, at least from the perspective of preemptively trying to get ahead of something perceived as threatening to a community as a whole.

I mean, I may not necessarily agree with all aspects of the situation as a whole, but the logic on behalf of the admin actions I think I can put myself in the shoes of.

Ugh I'm so happy to hear that. And glad to help!

Yes, you are missing the larger context, but I appreciate the question. :) The larger context is that the LBZ admin is an older trans woman herself, and knows how the patterns of transphobia play out in online spaces. She recognizes that, whether or not Person X is “genuine” or “valid” in their gender identity, allowing people to scream “Identity X isn’t real” or similar in response to their mere existence is dangerous in that it makes the site worse and more toxic for every “genuine” or “valid” trans person.

And when 'dogfucker' is next, it will be insisted that their gender is valid too, because by refusing to acknowledge any definition of the term, you turn gender itself into an empty mockery.

But does it help trans people to throw insults and yell about it in their spaces, instead of quietly blocking and reporting?

Yes, why do that when you can quietly report and ban anyone who disagrees with the gender of dragonfucker.

You want me to ban Ada?

That's a power far too great for mere mortals to wield, Dr. Wesker

“Not understanding” doesnt mean “dont respect them” though.

I don’t get it either, but it costs me absolutely nothing to use a neopronoun or anything else.

If you dont understand, you could either try to understand, or just use someone’s neopronouns and move on. Or not reply at all.

Okay, but as I noted, I used Drag's pronouns. I don't remember ever using the wrong pronouns for Drag, though I'm sure a 'they' or the like slipped in in some deeply buried comment.

The issue becomes whether gender has any limits for what it means. I objected to both the fantastic and the species. For that reason, on another instance, in a discussion that did not involve Drag or Blahaj admins, I was banned from a bunch of comms that I hadn't even commented in in months.

Okay, but as I noted, I used Drag's pronouns.

I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to calling neopronouns "cosplaying". Its intentionally disrespectful.

You want me to ban myself?

Did you ban yourself? lol

I didn't say that, but I do think it would be good for you to reconsider your wording, especially considering you admit to not understanding, and then acknowledged later the relation to trans feelings and how the two can be related.

But I'm not a "ban them" kind of guy. I'm more of a "remove their comment and explain" kind of guy.

My comment wasn't intended to suggest that being trans is a form of gender cosplay, so I apologize if that was how it read.

However, I will stand behind my statement that identifying as a totally different species is indeed pure fantasy that makes no real world sense to me.

I do support it in the same vein that I support all creativity and fun. Furries-- fuck if I understand that, but if no one (or animal) is getting hurt, go wild and have a great time.

That being said, if I was asked by a furry to only refer to them as a dog or cat in all real world scenarios because that's the species they identify as, I simply cannot pander and think it's a pretty unreasonable and fantastical expectation.

I'm going to stand behind my statement that you're being demeaning for no reason then.

Let's try this. I'm going to just change a few words, and let's see how this feels to you:

That being said, if I was asked by a trans woman to only refer to them as a woman in all real world scenarios because that's the gender they identify as, I simply cannot pander and think it's a pretty unreasonable and fantastical expectation.

That would be a pretty shitty take considering all we know about being trans, right?

Why does it have to make sense to you for you to not be shitty about it?

Why put so much effort in to be antagonistic rather than just acknowledge and either ignore and move on or refer to others as they'd prefer?

I don't consider it much different, personally. It doesn't bother or offend me. It doesnt hurt me to call someone by whatever they want to be called.

What I don't feel is a need to be hurtful in reference to their feelings.

You can change all the words you want, but that's not what I said, and I feel it's insincere to suggest the two statements are equal.

I'm allowed to draw a line and say, "this isn't my burden to bear, and I don't have to comply to simply avoid a rocked boat."

The offensive part to me I suspect is the same thing op finds offensive, which is the expectation that I am to comply with what is clearly someone's fantasy in all shape and definition.

We know gender identity is fluid and complex. We know sexuality is fluid and complex. The verdict is definitely way out there that species falls into this category, too.

I feel it's insincere to suggest the two statements are equal.

I think its insincere to suggest they aren't. After all....

what is clearly someone's fantasy in all shape and definition.

The verdict is definitely way out there that species falls into this column, too.

These two statements seem to be completely opposed to each other.

Not to mention, that same attitude was held towards trans folks for a long time, wasn't it? That they couldn't possibly feel that way, and it was just an expression of homosexuality?

Anyway, I'm off for tonight, enjoy your night.

I was trying to be generous with the "verdict is way out there" part. There will never be a day where a human is actually a dragon.

I am aware of a woman who is also a cat. I watched her belly dance in a jungle to a track by the artist Deep Forest. It was the first time as a preteen that I realized how sensual women could be. Or rather, cat women.

There are people who have the genuine belief in their "other" aspect of themselves. So thats how they prefer to be referred to. I think poking fun at that is unnecessary and wrong, its kind of as simple as that. Not something exclusive to this situation, just a pretty decent general rule.

What I would say the verdict is absolutely out on is a "why", and the impact it has on individuals. So a bit of courtesy and basic decency is all thats needed.

How do you feel about transracialism?

Transracialism has way more merit than transpeciesism, though.

I grew up amongst hispanic families, and definitely don't find it far fetched to identify with a different race, culturally and behaviorally. So I could see it, even though it might be a bit misplaced.

Like, that's at least based in reality.

But simply feeling Black or Hispanic doesn't make one Black or Hispanic; race is a cultural issue and culturally defined. Yet by the other commenter's arguments, feeling Black or Hispanic would be enough to make them unquestionably valid, because we cannot question the feelings of others.

My only point is that transracialism could at least be argued as having a real world basis, rooted in complex experiences of culture and race.

Identifying as a dragon, not so much...

Historical or modern?

Or that the modern usage has some scientific basis, and its still being explored?

Short answer - its a subject thats still being explored but has a degree of scientific support, so I see no reason to be mean about it.

Short answer - its a subject thats still being explored but has a degree of scientific support, so I see no reason to be mean about it.

What the ever-loving fuck

Princeton, about ten years ago. I'll dig up the materials tomorrow if you want.

Like I said, I like reading scientific materials.

If it's Brubaker, he's not saying what you think he is.

I think we took very different things from his book then.

Because I took away that there are people who genuinely believe it to be true for them. And since I don't go around referring to people by their race, or interact with people based on their racial identity, I don't have any reason to get myself involved beyond an "OK".

Isn't this a common TERF comparison?

I didn't realize TERFs often compared trans-species delusions to transracialism.

They compare transgender identities with transracialism. Close though.

It's close because it... includes a comparison to transracialism somewhere?

Is any comparison to transracialism in any context TERF now? Because that's the extent of the argument being presented.

Fucking ridiculous. Just throwing out labels and badjacketing in the hopes that it'll stick.

No, because the weaponization of race as a point of comparison to gender is done so specifically because of it's historical context - even though it is just as much of a social construct.

It's apples and oranges, but if apples had been enslaved on the basis of not being bananas for centuries, and oranges were being accused of not being a real fruit at all.

Get over yourself. It's not for you to decide what identities are legitimate or not.

No, because the weaponization of race as a point of comparison to gender is done so specifically because of it’s historical context - even though it is just as much of a social construct.

Everything is a social construct, genius.

It’s apples and oranges, but if apples had been enslaved on the basis of not being bananas for centuries, and oranges were being accused of not being a real fruit at all.

The fuck.

Get over yourself. It’s not for you to decide what identities are legitimate or not.

No, that's for you and your ilk to decide, of course, and to call anyone who disagrees fascists and transphobes.

No, that’s for you and your ilk to decide, of course, and to call anyone who disagrees fascists and transphobes.

I haven't called you a transphobe, at worst I accused you of being exclusionary, which as far as I can tell is actually what you are trying to be

I haven’t called you a transphobe,

No, you just JAQ off with innocent statements like "Isn't that what TERFs say???" with absurd points of comparison, like "You mentioned transracialism"

Given your exclusionary rhetoric I think it's an apt comparison.

Maybe deal with your own prejudice instead of seeking validation in these silly support groups.

Given your exclusionary rhetoric I think it’s an apt comparison.

Goodness gracious, how dare I exclude other species

Maybe deal with your own prejudice instead of seeking validation in these silly support groups.

Yeah, I'll seek support for my possumphobia. I'm sure my therapist will be shocked and appalled that I don't think that human beings can be possums.

Idk man, I don't know many people who care this much about defining gender to the exclusion of others that aren't fostering some form of bigoted prejudice, but you do you bud.

Wesker didn't mention neopronouns, though?

No, just an offhanded comment about them cosplaying.

Would you say that a trans woman was "cosplaying being a woman"?

No, but I'd say anyone who claimed to be a dragon was, at best, cosplaying being a dragon.

On account of dragons not being real, for one.

... OK now youre being a dick for no reason too.

I can't comprehend it any more than I can being trans, but why not give them basic respect for how they feel, regardless of what you think about it?

Is someone getting physically hurt by using neopronouns or by being respectful toward their feelings?

Are you being hurtful by saying they are cosplaying, in the same way that it would be hurtful to someone who is trans?

Thats kind of the line there dude. Your opinion on their lived experience is irrelevant, regardless of what I may think of it or you may think of it. Maybe they are a troll, maybe not.

Does it really harm you to not be demeaning towards others about it though?

… OK now youre being a dick for no reason too.

... for asserting people can't be dragons?

I can’t comprehend it any more than I can being trans, but why not give them basic respect for how they feel, regardless of what you think about it?

I can comprehend being trans. If I think about myself in a female body, trapped indefinitely, I feel horrified - like I would be alien in my own skin. That horror I feel is only abstract, and nothing compared to what trans people experience, but the principle is clear.

Is someone getting physically hurt by using neopronouns or by being respectful toward their feelings?

Again. At no point are neopronouns involved in this dispute.

Are you being hurtful by saying they are cosplaying, in the same way that it would be hurtful to someone who is trans?

Is it not hurtful to trans folk to equate their identities to someone who wants to play at being a dragon? Or more precisely, a dragonfucker?

Thats kind of the line there dude. Your opinion on their lived experience is irrelevant, regardless of what I may think of it or you may think of it. Maybe they are a troll, maybe not.

Does it really harm you to not be demeaning towards others about it though?

Having opinions is demeaning?

... for asserting people can't be dragons?

That they can't feel like they are on the inside. Yes.

I can comprehend being trans. If I think about myself in a female body, trapped indefinitely, I feel horrified - like I would be alien in my own skin. That horror I feel is only abstract, and nothing compared to what trans people experience, but the principle is clear.

Principle, but not full comprehension. You logically understand the concepts. You dont fully comprehend it, and neither do I.

Just because I understand more relative to trans folks than I would for others that feel more unique doesn't mean I can't extend them the same basic respect and dignity though. If that's how they feel, thats how they feel.

Again. At no point are neopronouns involved in this dispute.

Other than derogatory comments around them, like "cosplaying" as noted above. Yes.

Is it not hurtful to trans folk to equate their identities to someone who wants to play at being a dragon? Or more precisely, a dragonfucker?

Ah, so you speak for all trans folks then? Despite not being trans? Your basic understanding of the principles of being trans gives you the keen knowledge and insight to decide how all trans folks should feel relative about what someone else thinks of themselves on the inside?

Right. Cmon man. Youre better than this.

Having opinions is demeaning?

Like most other things in life - it depends on the presentation.

And yeah, I'd say even in this comment chain you've been pretty damn demeaning. Obviously my opinion, and to be clear I don't think you are at all a bad person.

But this, overall - yeah man you've got a really shitty take on this one. Its worth you spending time thinking about rather than reacting more, IMO.

That they can’t feel like they are on the inside. Yes.

Okay? There are people who feel like they have bugs on the inside. That neither means that they have bugs on the inside, nor does it mean that treating having bugs on the inside as the same as gender identity is in any way, shape, or form valid.

Principle, but not full comprehension. You logically understand the concepts. You dont fully comprehend it, and neither do I.

At that point, you can't 'truly' comprehend anything, so there should be no judgement or distinctions made regarding other people.

Ah, so you speak for all trans folks then? Despite not being trans? Your basic understanding of the principles of being trans gives you the keen knowledge and insight to decide how all trans folks should feel relative about what someone else thinks of themselves on the inside?

No? I asked you a question.

If you can't answer the question, how can you proffer a negative answer to it?

But this, overall - yeah man you’ve got a really shitty take on this one. Its worth you spending time thinking about rather than reacting more, IMO.

Fuck, man, I've thought and argued about this for years. I thought we left this behind in the early 2010s when Tumblr was doing turtlegender and babygender. "You haven't spent enough time thinking about gender" is bullshit, unless my entire adult life isn't long enough. I've put in time, thought, and the reading to understand trans and NB issues on at least a basic level so that I could fully support them in the political arena. When someone comes at me about perverts 'deciding' to change genders, I have a wealth of knowledge and constructed arguments to draw on. I'm not throwing this out there from some airy, just-learned-about-NB-identities position.

I'm just going to skip ahead, because the earlier parts I feel like are just a rehash of the part you're skipping over.

"You haven't spent enough time thinking about gender"

Not what I said.

I said you should think about your attitude around it. You should think about why you feel you need to be derogatory about it.

Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels. If its someone being a troll, just being generally polite and considerate and not needing to shove your opinion on them or others is not going to feed troll behavior.

What I'm suggesting you reflect on is why you're being demeaning about it, rather than just acknowledging and moving on.

I said you should think about your attitude around it. You should think about why you feel you need to be derogatory about it.

Because it trivializes an issue I believe is serious?

Because it's resulted in an instance regarding any disagreement with the idea as ban-worthy thoughtcrime?

Because when I get called a transphobe for not believing in dragons, it gets my dander up?

Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels.

Okay? I feel that dragons aren't a gender. I didn't go and shove this in Drag's face, nor, for that matter, in Ada's face.

Why are my feelings on this invalid?

Shoot.

Because it trivializes an issue I believe is serious?

They may consider it serious too.

So you're trivializing others based on your perception that its trivializing. Seems kind of a shitty thing to do.

Because it's resulted in an instance regarding any disagreement with the idea as ban-worthy thoughtcrime?

Its kind of been the rule forever there, basically the basis the entire instance was founded on. So... Yeah. Why is that a surprise?

Okay? I feel that dragons aren't a gender. I didn't go and shove this in Drag's face, nor, for that matter, in Ada's face.

I haven't commented on anything related to the mod/admin actions until just above, if you notice. Just comments in this thread. Do I think it was overstepping? Yes.

Do I also think you're being kind of a dick? Also yes.

Why are my feelings on this invalid?

You're basically outright saying that people couldn't possibly exist who feel different on the inside. Its just a different sense of self for them, which neither you - nor I for that matter - understand.

Your opinion and mine don't mean jack shit. Just like individual opinions about someone's ability to be transgendered don't mean jack shit. There is science behind being transgender - and its been set back already by decades (and likely centuries) due to conservative shitheads. If they hadn't, maybe there would be more scientific exploration of this aspect. I have no idea.

But what I do know is, unless its scientifically proven this can't be, or its still a possibility.

My opinion on it is meaningless.

Edit: [ ] a whole word.

They may consider it serious too.

Some people consider race-mixing serious, that doesn't mean that I have to treat their considerations with equal respect.

Its kind of been the rule forever there, basically the basis the entire instance was founded on. So… Yeah. Why is that a surprise?

Didn't realize the basis of the instance was that dragons were real.

I haven’t commented on anything related to the mod/admin actions until just above, if you notice. Just comments in this thread. Do I think it was overstepping? Yes.

But you said:

Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels.

But I was only 'mean about it' in the context of being accused of being a transphobe for having the opinion. I was not part of the conversation 'til then. I was not the one who brought up the issue. I didn't come out of nowhere to attack someone for saying they're a dragon - Drag, even, has commented numerous times on my posts without me getting into a fight with them about it. I was accused of being transphobic, I defended myself from the accusation by pointing out my rationale, and I get tone-policed for bitching on that after an admin comes from another instance and bans me? Fucking really?

You’re basically outright saying that people couldn’t possibly exist who feel different on the inside. Its just a different sense of self for them, which you - nor I for that matter - understand.

At no point have I commented along the lines of 'feeling different on the inside' being invalid. The question is whether 'feeling different' is gender. Should I regard my gender as 'gassy' after a trip to Taco Bell?

Your opinion and mine don’t mean jack shit. Just like individual opinions about someone’s ability to be transgendered don’t mean jack shit. There is science behind being transgender - and its been set back already by decades (and likely centuries) due to conservative shitheads. If they hadn’t, maybe there would be more scientific exploration of this aspect. I have no idea.

But what I do know is, unless its scientifically proven this can’t be, or its still a possibility.

My opinion on it is meaningless.

... bruh, how much scientific literature on trans issues have you actually read.

But I was only 'mean about it' in the context of being accused of being a transphobe for having the opinion

... Again, right in this comment chain. Thats what I was talking about. At no point prior to my last comment - where I explicitly said I feel it was overstepping - did I day anything about what happened other than in this thread.

I'm going to skip the other parts that are, again, going to just make me repeat things ive previously said.

... bruh, how much scientific literature on trans issues have you actually read.

A decent bit, actually. I tend to read scientific papers and white papers, one of my friends and former coworkers was transitioning, I had questions, she sent me a ton of info (knowing I'd find it helpful). Because she's an awesome friend and knows me and how I process stuff.

Don't assume.

I think I'm done for tonight.

… Again, right in this comment chain. Thats what I was talking about. At no point prior to my last comment - where I explicitly said I feel it was overstepping - did I day anything about what happened other than in this thread.

This is when you started calling me a dick:

No, but I’d say anyone who claimed to be a dragon was, at best, cosplaying being a dragon.

On account of dragons not being real, for one.

Saying dragons aren't real is dickish, but calling someone a dick... isn't?

A decent bit, actually. I tend to read scientific papers and white papers, one of my friends and former coworkers was transitioning, I had questions, she sent me a ton of info (knowing I’d find it helpful). Because she’s an awesome friend and knows me and how I process stuff.

Then you should know that it's very much a question wrapped up in hormones and brain chemistry. Are you aware that non-human species have very different hormonal balances and brain chemistry compared to human beings?

Then you should know that it's very much a question wrapped up in hormones and brain chemistry.

Quite a bit more than that, including our understanding of genetic expression continually evolving.

Anyway, like I said, I'm done for tonight. Enjoy your night.

Quite a bit more than that, including our understanding of genetic expression continually evolving.

...

💖

That's totally okay! You don't need to understand. :) The admins are simply asking users not to "take it to the streets," so to speak, as it can make the whole instance feel more uncomfortable and toxic. They encouraged us to report and block users who were causing issues, which we did, so those users are now banned. This way, we avoided creating unnecessary discourse and potential honeypots for bigotry, which is really the main idea here.

The admins are simply asking users not to “take it to the streets,” so to speak, as it can make the whole instance feel more uncomfortable and toxic.

Or anyone else's streets, apparently.

Preemptive bans are preemptive bans. Not the first time or server where this has happened, not the last. 👍

Gotta pre-empt someone who's already left. Very important.

Gotta defend your actions in the eyes of an admin you treat as despotic and whom you vowed to leave behind months ago. Very important. ;)

Gotta defend your actions in the eyes of an admin you treat as despotic and whom you vowed to leave behind months ago. Very important. ;)

Ada wasn't involved in the conversation at all before the bans. And I hadn't posted on Blahaj since 'months ago'. Which are amongst many reasons why this whole incident is weird.

I agree, Pug is not a transphobe.

Yes, you just think I want to "do gender-based harassment" of trans folk.

What does transphobia mean, again?

It isn't that surprising to me that you received an instance ban for breaking an instance rule, even if it happened somewhere else. Users in blahaj can still see your activity, even if it's not taking place in their instance, and a rule that's meant to protect instance users like that one needs to apply everywhere that instance might be active. I don't think this is mod abuse at all.

I can't advocate enough that people have multiple user accounts for this purpose, though. The fediverse is so diverse, with so much variation in mod standards, that everyone will eventually experience this. Not as a way to evade a ban, but just as an acknowledgement that different communities don't play well with some other communities you might be a part of. That, on top of the fact that it's just good opsec to rotate user accounts anyway.

I don't think anyone is going to change your mind about the specific opinion that earned you the ban, though. You seem pretty locked-in.

Instance banning isn't going to stop him from posting it elsewhere and blahaj users from seeing it elsewhere. It's a performative gesture that does absolutely nothing in context.

Instance banning isn’t going to stop him from posting it elsewhere and blahaj users from seeing it elsewhere.

No, but it will stop them from seeing it from that particular user in every instance, which is better than them still seeing that user air their grievance about it.

It's less performative than just about any other act of moderation on lemmy.

If that's actually how it works I'm going to get myself instance banned from the tankie triad immediately.

I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige

Oh we know they will >:}

It's been a while since I played D&D, but isn't it a race? /s

god you fuss about blahaj a lot

It would seem by Blahaj's defenders any amount of 'fussing' is a lot.

24 comments in the past 14 hours is a lot. that those 24 comments make up 92% of your total activity for that time period seems obsessive.

you sure talk a lot about something that seems to only upset you.

24 comments in the past 14 hours is a lot. that those 24 comments make up 92% of your total activity for that time period seems obsessive.

"How dare you talk about something that happened in the same day that it happened?

Yes, I must be obsessive.

you sure talk a lot about something that seems to only upset you.

Yes, everyone else who's upset doesn't exist. Keep living in fantasy land.

whatever babe lmao

Insanity. And then the one person who's a little less insane, gets bombarded by the insane asylum.

Hopefully this is your wake up call.