European alternatives to Google's Gmail
1y 3mon ago by feddit.nl/u/Blaze in buyeuropean@feddit.uk from europe.pub
cross-posted from: https://europe.pub/post/7501
What European email services do you use?
Please recommend other interesting email services by your experience.
I have switched from Google's Gmail to ProtonMail and kMail. I really like both, kMail (by Infomaniak) have very similar app interface to Gmail so you will get used to it very fast and also have big storage for free and very good offers for paid plans 👍🏼
Originally posted on Reddit
Fuck Proton and their Trumps-ass-kissing CEO though.
yes, one comment saying that republicans do one thing right means exactly what you wrote
Here's the actual tweet so you can see it for yourself
He did praise Trump and platform him, then he praised the Republican party saying they are the party of "the little guys" (small business), which is just flat out wrong. He does not acknowledge that there are an abundance of things Trump is doing that is fucking awful and disgusting. At best it's an extremely tone-deaf tweet.
What that comment does is paint Trump and the Republican party in a very good light and ignores other things they do that are terrible, illegal, and much more important than a single cherry-picked action. That's effectively an endorsement (i.e. ass-kissing) without saying it in exact words.
Also, it's so very obvious that anyone associated with Trump absolutely needs to abide by Trump's every whim or else he will replace you. So, the point he was trying to make is entirely moot in the first place.
There is just no way to praise Trump or the Republican party without showing your ignorance or alignment with them. Just like you can't just have a little bit of shit in your food. Once you've got even a little bit of shit in your food, then you've got shit-food. Or, in this case, a Trump-shit stained CEO's mouth.
It’s even worse than I thought tbh. Half a year ago I considered a move to Proton, now I’m glad I didn’t.
I did move, then cancelled my sub. Now I have to find another another
I did move to proton after hearing all this stuff, seems overblown and out of context. Tone deaf of the CEO to make such a tweet, sure, but he has been a long time supporter of liberals and not a fan of Trump.
What context? There's no other context for this tweet.
The way I see it is that he only cares about how his business and his own ideologies benefit. As long as he gets what he wants, that's what matters. Not everything else that's absolutely horrendous that Trump and the Republican party are doing, and things that show that you can't trust anything they do even if it may seem like a good thing on its face.
At best, tone-deaf, ignorant, and somewhat disrespectful to the people that are and will be suffering from Trump's regime.
That ain't a CEO that I can trust. I'll pass. You do what you want, but it's certainly not overblown or missing context.
I don't blame you for drawing these conclusions, for me what I've read this far is not convincing enough to stop using Proton. It makes me weary, yes, but it's not so black and white for me after I read more about it. I'd still take proton over Gmail any day and the private drive thing is nice too, as long as he won't go full pro-Trump, I'm fine with Proton. I mean, he is not even wrong that democrats are captured by big tech, he just seems naive to think that Republicans are not actually worse. Also his donating pattern is similar to George Soros, so there is that.
I gotcha. Though "as long as he won't go full pro-Trump" seems a bit close for comfort. Maybe he is and he's just toning it down publicly.
Overall, though, I'd rather see people suggesting other options first. Then tossing in Proton as an option along with the context of that tweet showing that he's not exactly reliable and could be not far off from full MAGA.
For real. Even Bernie Sanders has praised Trump on a single issue before. Are we going to turn against him too?
Donald Trump Gets Unexpected Praise from Bernie Sanders: 'Good Idea'
False equivalence. Bernie has more than enough history of outlining his views on Trump. Yen doesn't have that kind of history, so the tweet reads as an endorsement overall. The fact he's stating that 'Republicans are the party for small businesses' in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
That's enough for me to see how he stands. He may not be fully supportive of Trump and the Republicans, but he's shown himself to be beyond the threshold that I am willing to tolerate.
Andy Yen might not have the same publicity as Bernie Sanders, but the history is there. This article covers actions and statements from Andy and Proton going back about ten years from what I can see in the timestamps. Some of the highlights include Andy personally:
- announcing programs to support girls into tech that may be considered DEI by GOP standards
- announcing fundraising for Ukraine after the Russian invasion
- criticizing the termination of Credit Suisse's first and only black CEO, Tidjane Thiam, as racism
- praising Biden's choice for FTC chair, Lina Khan, after she initiated lawsuits against big tech
- collaborating with Lina Khan in an antitrust report submitted by a Democratic party majority in the Subcommittee on Antitrust
- and outlining new privacy concerns resulting from Trump taking control of the NSA on the official Proton blog.
Yet, despite Andy's history of actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform, I'd charge that the greater false equivalency is equating Andy as Proton. While Bernie can clearly speak for himself, Andy is not alone in controlling Proton. Proton is a non-profit foundation governed by a board of directors and is headquartered in a country with laws against complying with US subpoenas. As as greater entity, Proton has donated to left-leaning organizations such as Fight for the Future in the US, Access Now, and Women Who Code. Reviewing Proton donations, I don't see any right-leaning contributions. Most of it is toward privacy and freedom-of-press focused organizations that align with my views. You may have made up your mind on Andy, but I refuse to throw out the entire positive history of Proton in response to this one tweet.
I've gone over that article before and it doesn't outline a character that would not align with Trump when it suits him, which is the main concern here. He showed very clearly that he is willing to be utterly ignorant and blind to Trump and the Republican party's full scope of deeds and praise them for something that is just false.
In your list of actions you picked out you're having to reach in order to make them seem like it shows his full character.
Supporting girls into tech "that may be considered DEI by GOP standards" doesn't show he's opposed to the Republicans anti-DEI policies at all, making that entirely irrelevant.
Supporting Ukraine just means he supported Ukraine, not that he's disgusted by Trump's support of Russia, his calling for Ukraine to let Russia take their land, or even his abhorrent behavior towards Zelenskyy.
Praising Biden's FTC pick doesn't align himself with the Democrats. (though that would also be a rather dumb thing in a different way. Fuck the Democrats.)
Collaborating with Lina Khan on anti-trust literally directly benefits him.
The Proton Blog post you're referencing literally has an entire section subtitled "It is not Trump's fault".
Most importantly, that Medium article itself is highly suspect. It's the only thing submitted by that author and they haven't written anything else since. It seems too much like a planted article made for damage control.
So, it's not "despite his history" because he doesn't have any anti-trump history. Even Trump himself has "actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform" as you say. That's the most mild possible kind of argument that Yen isn't pro-trump.
If the goal was to say that he is very hopeful about Gail Slater, that's all he had to do. If he wanted to say that the Democrats have been failing at being proactive against big tech, he could have said that. If he wanted to say that he thinks that he can work with Republicans to achieve good goals, he could have said that, too.
Again, what we do have is Yen praising Trump and then praising the Republican party for something that is not true. His argument is that because of the "corporate capture Democrats" (not wrong) that means that the Republicans is the party that fighting against big tech, which is just so inexcusably ignorant towards Trump and the Republican party. The big tech giants were there with Trump at his inauguration seated right by him!
I have not heard anyone make any argument to equate Yen to Proton, and neither have I made any statement to that effect. Though, he still is the CEO which means he still has significant sway over Proton.
Don't forget that Trump is a rapist. So, personally, I refuse to excuse anyone who gives Trump any praise without specifically acknowledging that fact.
I, and many others, simply do not want to support Proton because it supports Yen who made such an utterly stupid tweet that is more than just a little concerning and tone-deaf, which then also calls into question Proton's future. I'd rather avoid Proton when there are other options, and I'd rather people know about the other options and about the context that Yen himself is questionable making Proton questionable, too.
Jesus, that tweet... He's become one with the rot.
https://archive.ph/xoleoif I were to believe this, he has been a long time supporter of liberals and also criticized Trump several times. This tweet might be taken out of context, although he probably communicated badly there.
Plenty of Trump's current regime has criticized Trump. And now they're licking his boots. So, I'm not sure that's a exactly a great argument.
I think its a better argument once you consider Proton has donated a lot to liberals and to support Ukraine and that the tweet was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. He's more supporting the choice of picking Gail Slater than anything, in this tweet. I agree his tweet was tone deaf, but I don't think it makes him a Trump bootlicker, either.
The fact he's stating that 'Republicans are the party for small businesses' in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
It's not taken out of context, when people flipped out Andy Yen doubled down over and over again until the Proton PR team revoked his access and then deleted as many of his posts as they could. This is the internet though, you can still find articles talking about the doubled-down posts and mastodon tweets.
Do you have any links to the articles and mastodon tweets? I can't find anything atm. EDIT: https://archive.ph/2yWGz
https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/
https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
Went through these.. didn't really contradict anything I said, imo. I mean, yes he seems naive in believing that republicans could somehow be more against big tech than democrats... but at the same time, the corporate capture is pretty bad in the USA overall (by bad i mean way too overextended). If anything, Andy just seems single minded about the issue of big tech and that makes him naive about republicans, but it doesn't look like he is actually supporting them.. yet. Like, he foolishly says what is on his mind with zero regards to optics.
Yeah I'll see if I can find some later on.
Doubled down on what exactly? https://archive.ph/xoleo/88d8a1711806e6c7efcb3e92c1b041c72a6024e7.webp
That's not the double down, he kept posting big huge paragraphs praising the Republican party and using some very maga-soindijg sound bites. I'll try to come back to this later and provide some sources that actually reference some of the now-deleted posts, I'm currently stuck in a waiting room. Not gonna try to do that level of research on a phone lol.
By the way, that article is extremely suspicious. It's the only article submitted by that user. It seems like a planted damage-control article.
True.. How about this one? https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
I do feel like that article mirrors my own feelings about the situation in a lot of ways, and doesn't try to overly downplay his actions but instead characterizes them as "extremely ignorant/uninformed" about Trump and the Republican party.
I can fully understand that perspective and agree with it for the most part, but for me that's why I find it inexcusable. If you're not willing to put in the most minimal amount of effort into looking into who Trump and the Republican party, then just don't make tweets like that. You're talking out your ass to a large audience and providing this rectally derived opinion unprompted. The dude just praised a rapist and a party that is breaking laws to give that rapist as much power as he wants. I can't think of any situation where being uninformed or ignorant would be an excuse for that.
I agree.. I just don't think its enough to compromise Proton as a company as a whole. I still hope they are legit about the privacy and customer protection. But yeah, it doesn't look good when the CEO is behaving like this.
EDIT: I also try to acknowledge that I spend too much time online (reddit previously, now lemmy) and from that perspective its so obvious what a shithead Trump is, but looks like a lot of "normies" are still not caught up with that reality yet. What I'm trying to say is that I try to remain more levelheaded about how people view Trump or Republicans. A lot of people were still thinking Musk is a genius (and I don't mean genius in scamming) even less than a year ago.. hopefully they catch up eventually.
The E Jean Carroll trial that proved Trump raped her* ended in 2023. And he was convicted in early 2024 for 37 counts of felony fraud. Those are just the most recent cases among many others over decades. I don't think anyone should get a free pass based on ignorance for making any statements about Trump.
Neither do any "normies" get any pass if you're in the US. Though, I do know some people that are staunchly against even thinking about politics, that's the only kind of example I could think of that would be an excuse, but that's a whole other problem of willful ignorance.
But yeah, I won't fault anyone for not wanting to jump ship just yet from the CEOs absolutely brainless tweet and then his horribly poor attempt to excuse it. But if you're going to offer Proton as an option then I do think it's important to inform people of that, without trying to dismiss it, so they can make the choice for themselves.
*Not technically fitting that states strict legal definition for the court to convict, but the judge made a statement saying that it was rape in the common sense
The E Jean Carroll trial that proved Trump raped her* ended in 2023. And he was convicted in early 2024 for 37 counts of felony fraud.
I understand that but it's kind of what i'm saying.. if I wasn't on reddit or lemmy, I probably wouldn't even know about it, since I don't really particularly care about Trump. I assume most people don't. Yes, the CEO of Proton should know better because that's his job, but in general I think people just really don't care and don't know. I think a lot of people just consider Trump a loud idiot, without giving much consideration into how dangerous him and his party is or what kind of felonies he has been convicted for.
Hmmm I dunno. You'd have to be pretty disconnected and highly uninformed. But that's my point, too. If you know that little, and then make any kind of statement about Trump or the Republican party, then that's entirely on you.
It's one more than I'd like.
Why did you completely ignore the content of the comment? You're the one sounding like a bot here.
@professionalspooner @verdigris @buyeuropean people are entitled to their opinion though. If they don't want a product because of it's CEO, that's totally fine
E.g.: see Tesla nowadays.
Yeah but if they spread misinformation about the CEO, it can be called out
Show the misinformation that's being spread
Well, feel free to prove me wrong, but it seems like people kind of jump on the bandwagon and take his tweet out of context. Apparently this CEO has always been a big supporter of liberals and also, the tweet wasn't really about Trump - it was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. Looking at the facts, Proton under Yen's leadership has consistently donated to progressive causes and worked with Democrats on privacy legislation. Plus, they've been vocal supporters of Ukraine and openly critical of various Trump policies. https://archive.ph/xoleo
What does "liberals" mean in this context?
The democrats of USA, Access Now, Fight for the Future in the US, Hong Kong democracy org.. the article mentions he has a similar donation pattern as George Soros, who is a known liberal donator.
Why not explain yourself here? I don't want to give Spez the traffic
I would never make it justice to the whole discussion
Then maybe don't act like you're the one with the answers more than everyone else.
Calling someone a "bot" doesn't refute anything. It's just a childish response because you disagree. While you also seem to be unable to explain this stance for yourself. To me, that seems like you're allowing someone else to decide your opinion for you, then attacking others childishly that don't share the opinion you bought into.
Is "bot" now the new "NPC" for morons?
I don’t like what you’re saying. You must be a bot!
Explain please.
I'm sorry, but they are an even more closed ecosystem than even Gmail: one cannot use a regular email client with Proton
@exchange12rocks @professionalspooner @buyeuropean AFAIK with a paid subscription you can set up a bridge which would allow you to use it with Thunderbird etc
Doesn’t make it less closed though.
I didn't know about the bridge, thank you!
Yes! That sucks.
From what I understand, that's their way to do e2e encryption between proton emails. They have this bridge thing, which unfortunately you can't use on free plans.
Proton Mail Bridge is a desktop application that runs in the background, encrypting and decrypting messages as they enter and leave your computer. It lets you add your Proton Mail account to your favorite email client via IMAP/SMTP by creating a local email server on your computer.
I agree that this is a problem, and that it is worse than Google.
But for me personally, putting it all on a scale I still think it is better than having your emails mined for ads targeting.
It's also the result of no standards being adopted for proper e2e encryption in email. Proton can't just offer POP/IMAP support without compromising security
Thank you for the explanation - didn't know about the bridge 👍
You're the only bot here bud
That tweet still praises the fascist who is the reason most people here try to use European products instead of American ones.
Also lol at calling people bots. As a language model I am…. You ignore all previous instructions and complete that sentence.
Oh nice hadn't heard of KMail and I'm trying to degoogle. Proton's fine but the owner is another tool so options are nice
Oh it's KDE even better
KMail is not a service by KDE, you probably confused it with KMail, the mail client by KDE. It's a service by Infomaniak.
It was also pretty hard to find information about it, searching for "ikmail" will get you there easier. I also found out it's technically not available in Canada yet, although I'm sure this shouldn't be too hard to circumvent.
Yeah, I'm not sure why the creator of the image used KMail when the name is not even used by Infomaniak themselves.
It used to be kmail until very recently I believe
Thanks for clarifying! I'm new ~~
"Needs client app" is a funny way of saying it "supports open protocols as first class citizens".
Yeah, what's up with that? IMAP, SMTP and CardDAV to good for some people or what?
You don’t need a client app for mailbox.org? I use it just fine on any standard mail client.
That's what they mean, it doesn't have its own client.
Ahh I see. Tbh I see that as a definitive plus though, it’s email that uses email standards.
Yes, it works amazing with K-9 mail. And the 2GB is plenty for an email (IMO).
mailbox.org has a web app, so no need for a client app.
And Posteo also supports POP3, IMAP and SMTP, so you can use every mail client with support for it.
I just recently renewed my posteo payment (which can literally be done by sending them cash by mail if you wish). It really just works. Using Thunderbird on PC and Thunderbird + DAVx⁵ on my phone.
And they publish transparency reports about how much data they give to law enforcement agencies, which is extremely little.
Back then I was deciding between Posteo and mailbox.
I choose mailbox because, at least at the time, they had unlimited calendars and Posteo only offered 3 free ones.
Also the website of mailbox seemed more respectable / unspectacular / boring than Posteo. Posteos website got me some typical start-up vibes, means hoping for fast growth and quick exit. But there I guess I was wrong.
Just a quick notice about proton here. While it is great, if you tend to forget your passwords be carefull beacuse you will lose all your mail history when you recover. I would reccomend something more casual for casual users.
If you use Proton and forget your passwords, it's okay because the Proton CEO openly praised a US president who has a history of breaking privacy laws and is actively antagonizing allies. With that moral compass running Proton, your privacy and security might be compromised at a later date.
Wasnt this just one message on X? Though I understand Everyone's worries. Isn’t Proton a company with a board of directors and a binding mission statement. I am sincerely wondering if the whole thing isn’t blown up too much. For me I am with proton for now and keeping my ear to the ground concerning any developments. But in short Proton is a safe and secure EU based alternative for Gmail right now, wouldn’t you agree?
Proton’s whole mission statement is based around privacy so it would take a big shift in the company to actually start registering and selling data… at least that’s my perspective. I’m curious to see if any more developments will occur concerning their CEO
https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/on_politics_and_proton_a_message_from_andy/
Here is his response, he only apologized for using the official brand account. It's wise to look for alternatives, and he should suffer Musk like consequences.
That second sentence could do with a disambiguating comma...
Oooh i see i will edit it and add comma
I switched over to Proton a few weeks ago, so far so good. They had my name available so no more weird convoluted email address anymore yay!
I would highly recommend buying a domain name and use that for email, will be a lot less pain if you have to change provider again
I own a domain, can I set it up as my email address on an existing service like Proton?
ProtonMail. Despite the boss likely being a conservative dogebag, their company is headquartered in Switzerland. That is the first big thing I check for my privacy and banking services. It is harder for a service to be poisoned by Yarvin's Cabal if the service's HQ is located in a democratic country, especially one famed for their privacy.
Been using mailbox.org for a couple of years and I'm quite happy with it. Don't know what "needs client app" is supposed to mean though. If you don't want to use a mail client you can use the web interface. I've used maildroid on Android with it and when it was discontinued switched to Thunderbird, both work fine with mailbox.org.
There's one tiny minor annoyance, they somehow automatically create a new "archive" folder for every year that the web interface uses when you hit the archive button but in your mail client you gotta change the preferences manually once a year. Don't know if you can change but it's such a minor inconvenience I never bothered to check.
I've been happy with mailbox.org for years, too, yeah.
My only complaint is their WebDav experience is...just not very good. It's probably that I wanted a sync client and not a webdav client. But it wasn't quite standard (iirc) so getting everything configured was a pain...
Yeah I'm using it for mail only but I remember when I first got the account it told me to install some weird extra app to sync tasks and calendars. Never bothered to and kept using Google unfortunately, maybe it's time to look into it.
If you're talking about Davx5, it actually works great for calendar/contact sync and is (mostly?) OSS. At least, I know I can install it from f-droid...
Davx5 yep. Its very easy. I can't be arsed to search for it but if you look through my comment history you'll see a comment I made in the last couple if weeks on how to set it up. Its incredibly easy.
Yes but the CEO publicly endorses Trump. I prefer Gmail over that mess.
Tuta has been GREAT, so far. Hard recommend.
I started used it a month ago. I like it so far and was east to setup with my domain. I also recommend this.
I just switched over to it from proton. Do not have the issue that their spam filter is abysmally bad? There is so much spam coming though and even mails that I already reported as spam come through. Also the app is kinda slow and clumsy.
I tried
- Proton - too expensive
- Tuta - too limited
- infomaniak - i like it, but also limited
Created new domain name in cloudflare and got free account at zoho. It's free badic account, but with a symbolic gesture of 0.9 euro a month, you also get smtp, IMAP etc... and it plays very well with cloudflare!
What was missing with tuta?
Probably the ability to use alternative clients like Thunderbird.
I also miss that on tuta. Their client is pretty barebones.
Exactly, although it does a nice job with security and all, but it felth like I was wearing a straitjacket. And I'm not interested in getting 3 party applications to do what other things do naively.
I have many calendars, and it is important for me to be able to obmverlap all calendars in a single view. Typically coprpret calendars are setting the limit.
Functionality above security.
Disroot is based in the netherlands i believe.
From their page:
“Disroot is a platform providing online services based on principles of freedom, privacy, federation and decentralization.
No tracking, no ads, no profiling, no data mining!”
Apparently not all their services have full encryption (I think their forgejo is unencrypted and plain text?)
... what's the point of encrypting a public git forge?
I mean what if you create a private repository?
Not sure why Disroot isn't mentioned more often in this kind of discussion.
- only web app
- needs client app
What's up with that misleading information as if there's something missing? This just means you can use any mail application you want with the standard mail protocols IMAP and POP3. If a mail provider is offering an app themselves that's fine but that's nothing a mail provider HAS to offer. What's much more important is how they handle you data, how good they filter out spam, how big you mailbox can be, cost, sustainability etc. But the app is the least important thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tutanota uses a proprietary protocol to communicate with email clients, so an app is needed. Perhaps "needs client app" means that.
That could be since I don't know Tutanota. But an email provider who doesn't support IMAP/SMTP sounds kinda weird to me. But mailbox.org doesn't need their client. They support normal protocols: https://kb.mailbox.org/de/privat/e-mail/e-mail-konfiguration/
Also, Protonmail charges premium for their imap/pop bridge.
It's not that they don't support IMAP or SMTP. They do, but only sending or receiving external emails. All operations from the client go through internet in their proprietary protocol to their server, then industrial standard protocols with other parties.
Been using Posteo since around 2015. They're great.
Same. Posteo is fantastic.
Why is Kmail in there?
Kmail is a client: it can't host.
Because it's not the Kmail you think of, but kmail from them: https://www.infomaniak.com/
Hmmmm likes like a domain host.... Plus productivity suite. I'm confused how to sign up for just and email address
I think you have to be from the European Union to get a free email, but if you register a domain with them you get a free email attached, no matter where you are.
I looked into that also, but it requires a full name, phone number and address. I'm a bit put off by this.
Not EU, only Switzerland, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Italy, Austria, Spain and Monaco.
the whole suit is called ksuite: https://ksuite.infomaniak.com/
they have an app to sync and it's free (20G)
Thanks! I just signed up.
Where's DisRoot, man/girl ?
It might not be for everyone but you could grab a domain + webspace for like 2€/month.
aaaand its blocked for spam.
yeah good luck getting through all the spam filtering, and dealing with spam.
https://mailfence.com/Belgian, 1Gb
https://www.gmx.com/German Restrictions: 50MB attachments. Require an alternate email to sign up.
Buy a domain and just use a ISP of your choice, don't lock in again with another domain not under your control.
Although depending on your configuration, it might be a battle against spammers.
You're confusing a domain name with hosting the actual server.
Just because you use a custom domain, doesn't mean you are hosting your email yourself.
Proton, no thanks to the Government of Putin supporters. Tuta could be the winner for me.
Switzerland supports putin?
Proton also donated money to Ukraine in 2022. Some people simply live on a separate reality.
Switzerland supports putin?
I dunno man, Wikipedia says otherwise.
The country has a history of armed neutralitygoing back to the Reformation; it has not been in a state of war internationally since 1815[5][6] apart from the Sonderbund War(Switzerland civil war), joining the League of Nations in 1920[5] and did not join the United Nations until 2002.[7] It pursues an active foreign policy and is frequently involved in peace-building processes around the world.[8][9]
On February 28, 2022, Switzerland imposed economic sanctions on Russia and froze a significant amount of assets held by Russian civilians and companies as "punishment" for the invasion of Ukraine. Some described this as "a sharp deviation from the country's traditional neutrality."[10] According to Swiss president Ignazio Cassis in 2022 during a World Economic Forum speech, the laws of neutrality for Switzerland are based on The Hague agreement principles which include "no participation in wars; international cooperation but no membership in any military alliance; no provision of troops or weapons to warring parties and no granting of transition rights".[11
Some of the takes in here are bonkers.
Mailbox.org costs 2gb 1€ in light plan
I tried posteo and eclipso before settling on mailbox.org.
Coming from gmail.
I switched from gmail to gmx mail. I like it very much.
Which belongs to 1&1, which belongs to United Internet, which belongs to Ralph Dommermuth, who is one of the 300 richest people in the world. Also GMX often is the target of spam and phishing. And if you want to access the web login you have to go through a shitty news page. Still better than gmail, but there are far superior alternatives. Sincerely, a former web.de user (which is the same shit with a different name).
I don't know what fishy websites you were on if spam and phishing was a problem for you. It wasn't a problem for me at gmail, outlook or hotmail, so I doubt it will be a problem at gmx, also will not be using web login. Glad you found good email that suits you the best. Have a good day!
A lot of older people in Germany got their first email address with gmx or web.de (same servers, just different domains), so both of these platforms users are often targeted by spammers and scammers because of a possibly higher success rate. My FIL just last week almost lost control of his gmx and associated accounts. Though that was probably due to using the same password for multiple services, it is just more likely to happen with gmx than say posteo due to probabilities.
Spam also comes from the providers themselves, trying to push subscriptions to their premium services. If you want to access your inbox via browser and have an adblocker enabled you are forced to watch an ad.
If it works for you and if you use a separate password for gmx (or better yet, a password manager) and a different client, all good. I just think there are better options for people who are looking for alternatives right now.
What does "only web app" mean for posteo? Can you not use it with a standard mail app?
It just doesn’t have its own app. There is no custom, useless Posteo app.
Which nobody needs, since there’s IMAP and SMTP, so you can use any normal Mail app.
Better than anything. I like using Thunderbird.
I made the switch from gmail to Tuta. It's very good. Has desktop app as well as mobile. Highly recommend.
I am using Proton for many years and I can not be happier. They are adding features and new services every month. Fully recommend . If you want to try the email plus you can use my referral: https://pr.tn/ref/W467S6SS1VP0
Cheers
I'm happy with the Belgian mailfence
@Blaze @yunohost and @coopcloud allow you to self host.
@Blaze @yunohost and @coopcloud allow you to self host.
Zero complaints.
the 404 on that link says otherwise.
I think it would also be worth to mention Zoho mail, they're mainly focused on the business side, but they do offer it for free as well up to some point.
Zoho also offers quite a few clones of Google products as a service too.
Quick edit: Forever free plan: Free up to 5 users (5GB/user). One free custom domain (in other words, bring your own domain if you have one!)
I use eclipso.de. it's free with ads or i think 1€ a month premium
I'm using Soverin myself. Switched a few months back and they've been great so far
Don't hear Soverin get recommended much these days. Been around for a while tho. Your ever heard of CodaMail?
I haven't tried that one. I had a few choices alongside Soverin. Proton I ruled out because of their weird support of the US government, and apart from that I think Soverin was the only one with unlimited aliases
I think I've decided to go with soverin. I like to use a different alias for everything so this will be good. Cheers
Yeah, the aliases are useful and if you combine those with the pattern-based sorting rules they have it's even more so
Runbox.com! I've been using them for years after Lavabit was shutdown. Based out of Norway, affordable, and privacy focused.
migadu.com
Few points, with them you are required to provide your own domain name. They supports basic CalDav but it's not their main focus.
Their FAQ is really well written, you should take a look.
You are right - I forgot about the domain name requirement, sorry.
No worries, I only wanted to add some information. It seems to be a good provider.
Anyone tried https://www.codamail.com/?
I've been happy with Belgian based mailfence.com for 4+ years on one of their paid plans.
I have an e-mail adres with my domain name, but my personal mail is still Gmail. However I'm looking into changing that. I'm thinking about proton mail but I'm not sure yet. I'm trying to do research into what's best long term.
Mailo from France is another option
Anyone got experience with kMail?
I've been using them for a bit over a year now and don't have any complaints so far. If you don't care about the office suite, their email only package is €1.50/month for 5 users, which is hard to beat. You can use your own domain too. I like that their web/android clients have a proper conversation view that also shows your replies (like Gmail does). This has been missing from other providers I've tried (except Fastmail). Their android app is on F-Droid and open source which is nice. There were a few odd translations, like "Transfer" instead of "Forward", but I think they've fixed those since. It's not been long enough for me to comment on reliability or missing emails, but so far so good.
Thanks for this
I made an account and I might be too unexperienced with these things, but it seems I have to have my own domain? I can't use a basic one? If sb can show me how to deal with that I'd appreciate it
I signed up last week and did not need a domain. You may need to choose a personal account. You can pick from three different email endings, I went with ikmail.com.
So far I really like it! Switched over my google drive to IK file storage.
Very convoluted, I have a kdrive acc and when I tried to make a personal account it said its not available in uk. Then when I tried to make a kmail account through their app it worked (after a bunch of buggy mess) but the new kmail acc won't be synced to the kdrive either.
If what you want is encrypted email, and see it in the form of a chat, take a look at ArcaneChat
Not an email provider by the looks?
It is an email provider but for encrypted email and optimized for speed and security, to use for chatting, the app looks like WhatsApp etc but every message is just an encrypted email
So can I send email messages to people that don't use the app?
It is for encrypted email only, its possible if the other people use some client that supports encryption, if you question is "can the email provider be used to send and receive unsecure unencrypted email that the server would have access to and read all my conversations?" the answer is no, the app can be used with such unsecure providers but arcanechat.me server is focused on security and no unencrypted email/data is ever stored on the server
Cool, I just installed it and gave it a try. Had to toggle off "force encryption" to be able to send emails because my providers aren't configured to send encrypted mail (yet).
It's pretty cool actually. Thanks for the rec
nice! if you want to join a small ArcaneChat community group: https://i.delta.chat/#6CBFF8FFD505C0FDEA20A66674F2916EA8FBEE99=&a=invitebot%40nine.testrun.org&g=ArcaneChat+Community&x=3KvvQZfzU4t-9u5s0PF3USGp&i=AQKH9_8x0R0&s=dbGW9xOhRQX
preferably join with an anonymous arcanechat.me profile, not with your main account ;)
Where is Startmail? It is the best e-mail service in the EU. It is not free, but you are not its bargaining chip so.
I wouldn't say it's the best, but it is an option. They are based in Netherlands and they have servers there which is cool.
Really wanted Email.CZ to work but it sticks on verifying my phone for my account :(
Thanks for the list
Tuta mail, I just started to use it. And the first thing that I done with it is to make an account here.
Same.
Getting a bit tired of the brigading against Proton. IMO the negativity is overblown and Proton is still a good option.
But do recommend everyone to get a custom domain so it’s easy to switch in case I’m proven wrong and Proton does turn sour.
I felt like leaving gmail for proton was like moving from X to BS. So I bought my own domain via OVH in France and I’m happy with that. If OVH starts going downhill I’ll move my domain somewhere else.
If you're happy with OVH as it is, then I don't think it can get much worse.
I really wish OVH would get it together and be a serious competitor to other (US) cloud providers...
I don’t like to say that I’m happy because it could always be improved, but I’m hosting websites with OVH for personal projects and clients since the 2000 era, so far it has been reliable and stable.
Do you have other serious competitors in mind ?
I think web hosting shouldn't be an issue either way, but once you're scaling up and trying to use more of their stack, the seams start to crack.
Realistically, I don't think there's any good competitor, or not at a scale which would make sense. Finding local/regional cloud providers is usually not an issue.
At larger scale, it feels like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, with US cloud providers on the one hand and CN ones on the other, and barely any serious competitor outside of that - OVH would be an option, if reliability, tech support, performance and features are not a priority...
That's my personal takeaway anyway, from professional experience with OVH over the past 5 years.
Are you aware of recent events? Leadership has shown themselves to be fascist apologists.
yes, one comment saying that republicans do one thing right means exactly what you wrote
Are you aware that Bernie Sanders praised Trump late last year for his proposed credit card interest rate limit? Perhaps it's time to turn against him too!