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They have started federating again, lord help us.

1y 2mon ago by lemm.ee/u/Irelephant in fedimemes@feddit.uk from lemm.ee

edit: muting this thread, goodbye.

Finally! This place just isn't the same without pics of pigs shitting on their own balls.

I tried to get AI to generate it for me but it's just not the same.

I just blocked the whole instance as soon as the option was implemented. There were few good posts/comunities from it, but overall better to block it whole.

Somehow I can't block it using Voyager, the only instance appearing is test.hexbear.net. Any idea why?

SJW blocks them already.

SJW? Social Justice Warrior? Is that an instance?

sh.itjust.works shit just works

That should be SIW...

It's "Shit Just Works"

It is Sh.Itjust.Works and the joke has now been improved by an explanation.

Shh... It just works.

sh.itjust.works

Really? Last time they federated with us they're the ones who ended up defederating and I thought that was the end of it

They're mutally defederating.

That explains why so many hexbear defenders in SJW comms are on different instances (usually .ml). They literally can't see those comms from their hexbear accounts.

I can access hexbear communities, at https://sh.itjust.works/instancesonly test.hexbear.net is listed which leads to 502 anyway. Am I doing something wrong?

Probably an issue on sh.itjust.works's end, though Hex blocks it so they won't see anything on your end even if you do get in.

If you want to see what it's about, just visit hexbear.net directly.

It makes sense, all the posts I find from hexbear are a couple of months old. It is a bit annoying, because when I hit explore in Voyager and sort by size, thalf of the communities are from hexbear.. Maybe @TheDude@sh.itjust.works has an idea why it behaves like this?

Hexbear used to be federated with sh.itjust.works. if you defederate, the old posts still continue to exist, hence the communities also still continuing to show.

I tried removing a bunch of the old hexbear communities. Did that help at all?

Also sorting communities by total subscribers is a bad system. It's more useful to sort by monthly active users imo.

You can use lemmyverse to sort by active users.

https://lemmyverse.net/communities?order=active_month

Check the blocked tab. Also, when servers defed, old posts and comms stay behind.

Do be aware of the limitations of user blocking though.

Don't have a problem with what instance you're on as long as you're respectful I'll be respectful back

I totally agree. But that instance is slightly notorious for brigading threads.

They got like 6 people in here doing just that.

Learn how federation works, or better yet, go back to reddit

[Account 21 days old]

Oh, my sweet summer child.

Move to an instance that defederates then, and move on? I'm not the biggest fan by any mean, but this kind of posts is just calling for some instance slapstick fights in the comments

For a list:

I get what you're saying, but this is mostly a joke.

There is some cool people there.

When Hexbear sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending other cool people. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing flamewars. They’re bringing spam. They’re brigaders. And some, I assume, are good people.

There is instances which block them.

It's a reference to one of the taglines that appears when using hexbear.net. Visit the link, then look at the top (may not work on mobile apps). Refresh, and you'll get a different blurb.

And here I thought it was a reference to a Trump speech

Ohh, I had seen those before.

Yep! My favorite is the one that has a hypothetical future Soviet America, written as a POV, and someone gets home from work and a random Hexbear user calls them a revisionist, lmao

If it's a joke, that's all good. It's just that some other people don't make jokes, they try to hide instance beefing messages in some memes, and that usually just brings negativity in the comments.

There are a few users that come to mind with that, haha. Seems drama baiting is all they do, whether it be by making anti-Marxist memes to draw on drama, or by constantly reposting everything that gets posted on Lemmy.ml on other comms.

Seriously, 90% of it would probably die down if those accounts stopped. Especially ironic is that seemingly the most anti-Hexbear people are the least capable of describing their overall political views, which IMO explains the counter-productive behavior.

Agreed. You're free to not like the way an instance or community is run, just contribute to others.

You're right, I dislike people who deliberately put instance beefing memes onto ml and grad just to annoy them, its like poking a hornets nest.

I know, won't someone think of the poor tankies? Tankies are the most oppressed demographic on Lemmy. Not like those privileged trans people with their own whole instance

I get your point, but at the same time, I feel its just better to leave them by themselves.

Also, I dislike the tankies there, but there is other cool people on the instance.

If I join lemmy.ca and my country invades them will they kick my red blooded american ass out

We're against genocide so we'll spare you when the time happens.

it won't work, they defederated us and I still see their cancer here.

It's about time they showed up, during trans day of visibility no less 😌

LPT - you don't have to give any fucks about who or what "hexbear.net" is, instead you can have a life.

If I don't want to have a life, can someone explain this to me? What is hexbear, and what happened?

It's a Left-unity instance for Marxists and Anarchists. That's really it, some people get really mad at that.

It’s a Left-unity instance for Marxists and Anarchists (who like to simp for authoritarian AES states).

Fixed it for ya.

The overwhelming majority of Marxists worldwide support AES, and a good number of Anarchists support AES against Capitalisy states. It's not about "simping."

Imo, support for AES authoritarian states is one of the main sources of friction between Marxists and Anarchists. It's ideologically dishonest to suggest otherwise. Especially since most AES states are now capitalist in most respects. If you guys would drop the AES support then left unity might stand a chance.

I only have a surface level understanding of all this stuff, but don't marxism and anarchism both aim for a stateless, classless society?

Marxists and Anarchists have a different view of what the state is, and what class is. Marxists see the state as an implementation of class oppression, Anarchists see it as a tool of hierarchy.

As a consequence, Marxists see Communism as a fully publicly owned and planned, democratic government, while Anarchists want decentralized networks of Communes. For Marxists, the Anarchist solution retains class distinctions as each commune only has internal ownership and thus class is retained, while for Anarchists the Marxist solution retains the state as it retains hierarchy.

This struggle over analysis drives the major distinctions between each major school of Leftist thought.

They do, but people like unruffled see marxists as traitors

I don't know if traitor is the right word. I see support for AES states as reprehensible because i don't see any virtue in dictators running the world, even if their countries were once communist.

A good thread on this.

If you guys would drop the AES support then left unity might stand a chance.

Ah, I see. So in order to achieve "left unity" all we have to do is:

  1. Abandon support for every socialist project that was even moderately successful

  2. Refuse to learn from their successes and failures because we have to write them off entirely as if they weren't genuine movements

  3. Allow blatant propaganda and falsehoods to be spread about them unchallenged, for fear of being associated with them.

Of course, if we did that, especially the last one, we'd be associated with them anyway - they called Obama a communist, they'll apply the label to anyone. If every attempt at building socialism was an unmitigated failure that just made everything worse and resulted in things just as bad as the Nazis, then why the hell should anyone want to be a socialist? Why should we even be socialists?

And don't try to pretend that it's only uncritical support you're talking about. If you have a good word to say about any of them, if you challenge accusations and call them out when they lack evidence, then you'll be labelled a "tankie." Y'all are obsessed with punching left and demonstrating your anticommunist credentials, and have been for the last 80 years, "If we just toss all the Reds out of the AFL/CIO, then people will see we're not like them and they'll be on our side, that we're 'one of the good ones,'" and then guess what, they call you Reds anyway, and when they come for you you'll have alienated people who would've actually fought back. This is how we got to the point where even "liberal" became a dirty word, of being "too far left."

Yeah, thanks but no thanks on that one. I'm going to continue critically supporting AES states and examining their success and failures and refuting misinformation about them - focusing on what's actually true, rather than on trying to "prove" that I'm sufficiently anticommunist to pass some red scare purity test.

Marxists are aligned on support for AES, though, outside of fringe tendencies like Trotskyists and Gonzaloists. In my experience, it's more of a hot topic among Anarchists, having spoken to firmly anti-AES Anarchists and critically supportive Anarchists.

Further, when you call AES states "Capitalist in most respects," that just isn't accurate from a Marxist stance on what Capitalism and Socialism are. AES states are where large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly controlled, while the private sector is dominated by small firms, sole proprietorships, and cooperatives of non-essential industries. This is because Marx viewed the only real way to achieve full public ownership is developing into it, rather than simply decreeing it.

The divide more tends to be among the stance on what the real obstacles in the way of progressing beyond Capitalism is, and those in support of AES tend to agree that that obstacle is currently the US Empire.

Yeah, and the Nazi party was just a social event. 🙄

Their users are often overly entitled by this, spread hate, engage in brigading and censor people when they don’t agree with them.

It is mandatory to mention that while I said the above, there is probably a good portion of them who aren’t like that. They’re just the silent majority.

How do you determine if something counts as "brigading" vs just being federated? Moreover, I have no idea what you're counting as "spreading hate."

https://jlai.lu/comment/13530572(For your first question)

Some isolated users are very vocal when there’s a discussion about their instances. Happened in a discussion about defederation of hexbear in my instance. Wasn’t there but it lead to both instances being defederated from us

So it's really just federation between instances, not dedicated and coordinated brigading.

For sure, the core of hexbear and lemmygrad isn’t brigading, but it happened enough so that people are fed up of it

Or, like I think, it's just friction from opposing viewpoints and federation naturally cropping up.

It literally never happens. You just continue to not understand how federation works

I’m not specifically saying you’re making a post and collectively jumping on a train to shit on us. It could also be that some users just search for political posts close to their beliefs or posts about their instance and only interact with those

It still feels Iike the only time you pop on threads, it goes wrong, and you are always seen in the same type of threads

I’m not specifically saying you’re making a post and collectively jumping on a train to shit on us.

No, that is what you're saying. That's what Brigading means

brigading

I am once again begging the Redditers to learn how federation works

I’m not going to start the whole thread again. Here is the reason we say this: https://jlai.lu/comment/13508125

(Sry I only have a link to my instance)

When you go out of your instance, it’s to argue about political opinions

Your not in your Instance... and you're taking about politics!

Brigader! Mod! MOOOOODS! This person is Brigading!

I guess you didn’t read what I wrote

You can read my comment history. I’m sure you can check that I’m not only talking about politics and not always defending one side

Stop Brigading! You not on your own instance! That's brigaaaadinggggg! MOOOOODS!

Ah yes, when you don’t have any arguments, use sarcasm and irony to make your opponent look like a fool. Classic.

Given that you've just resorted to post-hoc redefining words as you go, you're really in no position to say other people don't have arguments.

Google can probably help you if you really think it's worth looking up.

It would be better if they were completely defederated.

The tankies need to find another space to fester.

Yeah, people i disagree with really need to get out!

Some ideologies deserve to be ended

"Well alright, the ni**ers and the chinks can stay, but we don't want the Irish!" - Blazing Saddles

What does this mean? Genuinely asking.

They're falsely equating ideology to ethnicity.

It's a quote from the movie Blazing Saddles mocking bigotry, in this case to say "Suppression is bad unless WE do it" is s hypocritical and wrong approach - and in fact it's the exact mentality of people who currently want to suppress gay, trans, etc. which to them are as "obviously evil" as nazis.

Me; new here thinking "hexbear" is the furry server.... Oh...

Well I was half right

Never noticed they were gone. Just checked and my instance defederated from them. All is good in the world.

Seriously.

Feels good man.

I'm glad my feed has been pretty drab with them gone

Same, but I can't seem to get Voyager to actually do instance blocking. It has the option, but it seems to not work.

You know that you can block instances yourself? Like you don't have to be forced to see their stuff. I think some of y'all enjoy whinging about shit for the sake of it.

You know that blocking an instance does not block users from that instance?

But it blocks all posts that are posted to communities on on that instance, so it guts 90% of the shit you don't want to see. Just block users when they piss you off.

The constant posting of hatred towards other instances is just as if not more annoying to me than the dumb shit hexbear comes out with.

But it doesn't block votes, so their users will still influence your feed.

It's not that I don't want to see them, it's just I don't want to waste my time replying to anything when anything other than "DAE hate westoids?" gets deleted right away.

I'm fine with hex, for the most part. This is a joke, in the jokes about the fediverse community.

If you block an instance, you can't spend the next sixty posts complaining about the replies.

Blocks don't hide your posts from them or prevent them from responding to your comments.

And?

Seeing "there is no record of this comment" in a chain brings me sexual pleasure.

Die in your hole, person I disagree with!

Plus you still get to see the replies to the comment, usually them being dunked on by other Lemmings.

Let me try that. Quick, reply to me now.

Hey, it works!

Blocking instances only blocks posts from them, not comments.

You should check piefed (piefed.social , join.piefed.social) it has support for lemmy and proper instance blocking.

Whats interesting about piefed is that everything is prerendered - it doesn't use an api, unlike lemmy. Of course, an api is in the works, and the dev of thunder made a PoC.

I use the Alexandrite version of lemmy.world (https://a.lemmy.world/) and in that you have a hamburger menu at the end of the persons comment, one of the options is block.

I think you can block an instance in your user Settings - Block - Instances.

If you're using a phone app, it's going to vary depending on the app.

Voyager has it in the filters section down the bottom of the page.

I would love to get some context on this.

You know how there is a subset of leftists that just make everything worse? Up their own ass, stupid standards/priorities, generally annoying? That's the general opinion of hexbear. I haven't really interacted with the instance much, but that's what i gather from the rumors and the occasional wild hexbear comment, but i might just be primed to notice the bad comments because of the reputation. maybe a bit of a dirtier/less stringently controlled beehaw.

Edit: although as lemmy grows chuds will bitch about them just for not being right wing.

You're obviously a CIA agent, liberal. Just because Hexbear supports AES states like Putin's Russia, you have the audacity to attack us. Where's the left unity, buttmuncher?

4chan is what gave us QAnon.

What in the world makes you think 4chan is something to emulate.

So fuck minorities am I rite?

Anon forums are where hate groups flourish. Always have been.

It's why the rest of the internet is moderated in the first place.

So fuck others then amirite?

You don't have to be a tankie to hate Putin. But you still should hate other hate groups.

Why limit to those two?

Because neither of us is currently talking in either of those spaces. Maybe because they're both uniquely shit?

Here's the thing

If you want 4chan, what's stopping you from going there instead?

Clearly people here don't want that. Or Reddit. Is why Im here at least.

If you don't like the moderation, stop seeking places that moderate. It's not an airport, there's no reason to announce your departure.

Again, grain of salt as i don't really have first have experience, but no. Hell no. Not even judging what you're into, the rumors of hexbear make it seem like the kinda place where the mods are petty tyrants.

Start here.

Hexbear.net is a Leftist instance with Communists and Anarchists. The bare minimum required is to be an anti-Capitalist of some sort there. As a consequence, some people take issue with that.

Not as simple as that

Nothing is ever "simple," but this is the crux of the equation.

It might be. But it’s also because you guys are very vocal and support extremism/authoritarian governments

Communists tend to support Socialist movements worldwide, calling these movements extremist or authoritarian is a matter of perspective that Communists would disagree with.

Sure, but there’s a difference between agreeing with the general idea and defending everything a country does. Nuance is important.

If what we consider an authoritarian country isn’t considered authoritarian by communists, then there you have an additional problem

No Communist defends everything AES states do, though. Communists have nuanced views based on our understandings of the realities faced by and in AES states, and disagree with anti-Communists on these fronts.

I was specifically talking about China never being badly pictured

It is, though. Hexbear is frequently critical of China's actions, just from a Communist perspective.

tankies and the leftists without the ability to have critical thought AND/OR nuanced conversation.

I’m sure some of them are nice people, but they aren’t sending their best.

I find far more nuance on Hexbear regarding Leftist topics, at least in my experience. The average Hexbear user is more likely to have read theory, be it Anarchist or Marxist, than most other instances, so that baseline really helps elevate what kinds of conversations are had.

Hey everybody, this tankie finds hexbear users nuanced!

You really don't notice what you're doing, do you 🤣

I know exactly what I'm doing.

Red Scare anti-communist witch hunting? Are you related to McCarthy, by any chance?

If by "tankie" you mean Marxist, then yes.

No, I mean tankie.

This is you: https://lemmy.ml/comment/17634182(https://lemmy.world/post/27462282/16133562)

China is a democracy. It is not a liberal democracy, where multiple parties compete, but a Socialist democracy. You can watch a quick video from Chinese state media on how it functions, or how elections work. Over 90% of Chinese citizens approve of their government, and the majority believes they have a democratic impact on policy, at a higher rate than the US.

Easy to hit 90% when people are killed for not approving of the government. You support the tanks in this image.

Gotcha, you mean Marxist. The overwhelming majority of Marxists hold opinions on China that are roughly in line with mine, after all, you're just adding a pejorative element to the equation.

I stand by what I said in that comment. You should read the Harvard study I linked in that comment:

We find that first, since the start of the survey in 2003, Chinese citizen satisfaction with government has increased virtually across the board. From the impact of broad national policies to the conduct of local town officials, Chinese citizens rate the government as more capable and effective than ever before. Interestingly, more marginalized groups in poorer, inland regions are actually comparatively more likely to report increases in satisfaction. Second, the attitudes of Chinese citizens appear to respond (both positively and negatively) to real changes in their material well-being, which suggests that support could be undermined by the twin challenges of declining economic growth and a deteriorating natural environment.

There's simply no evidence of the CPC using intimidation to secure their overwhelmingly high approval rates. Both Occam's Razor and real polling data seem to suggest that the support for the government is most closely linked to how much the government does for people, which can help explain why rural areas tend to support the CPC more, as they were the primary targets of the extreme poverty eradication program.

I really don't think you've made an effort to try to understand China, and I don't even mean the government. Why should you be able to decide what's best for Chinese people, when they clearly support their system and believe it works for their interests? This is the kind of Western Exceptionalist chauvanism that plagues the English-speaking internet.

Further, Tian'anmen and the June 4th incident were never a part of that discussion, so you are clearly trying to add an emotional element to the argument.

Gotcha, when you can't actually respond to logic when you insult someone, you pivot to using a vaguely racist caricature. Checks out for someone whining about Marxists.

No, I'm pointing out that government oppression of the Chinese population when they criticize the government is still in full swing by showing a recent example.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Winnie-the-Pooh_in_China

It's usually non-Chinese people that use the Pooh caricature (huh, wonder why?), and again, that doesn't change that the overwhelming majority of Chinese citizens do support their government. Check the study I linked, public opinion is most closely linked to real material well-being, like Upward Mobility:

There is a good deal of criticism for the CPC, a lot of it is coming from younger generations that want to accelerate the progression of Socialism. This isn't censored, but what is usually censored is when right-wing, Western media tries to propagandize. In reality, things are improving, so more Chinese citizens are satisfied, and take an active role in building up their country.

"Chinese man looks yellow" is not helping your cause

That isn't the point of the meme, dipshit.

Also, Pooh is a brownish orange.

The meme has no context or explanation, I just assumed it was a racist caricature

It was started by a user of a Chinese social network, and was subequently censored in China and became a meme used by those critical of the government. It lives on becuase of how the government of China continues to suppress dissent.

Great job jumping to incorrect conclusions!

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xi-jinping-winnie-the-pooh-comparisons

So you think you can be racist just because a Chinese person used it first? Do you think you can use the N word because black people use it?

I'm not being racist you fucking donkey.

Are you Gordon Ramsey?

Have you ever actually been friends with someone who lived in China most of their life?

Oh no, not muh Tinyman Square! We authoritarians are so owned! That guy totes got squished by the tank.

You can even see it in this video.

Hex is more than tankies. While they seem to be very vocal, there's more to the site than that.

What if you just blocked the mod?

They would be able to see your comments, you can't just block an admin or mod to avoid them taking action against you.

I don't know either because I don't speak Russian, nor do I remember you, but have fun, I guess?

Not the reddit-like comment lmao block me too

Redditeurs really do think sarcasm is the highest form of wit.

You should go back to Reddit, you'd be happier there

Go back to reddit, you'll be happier there.

Blocking users or their instances doesn't stop them from commenting on your posts, or downvote bombing you like they did here. It just means you don't see them.

Pretty much all my experiences with that instance and similar ones have been disgusting.

Pushing people who post burning flags of a country and posts about it to be fully wiped out are accepted... Criticism regarding this gets your comment remove and a ban from the community.

I don't need that again. Where can I block this pseudo-left pro-authoritarian instance in Voyager?

Well, I can totally get what you're talking about, but instance blocking on lemmy only blocks communities and posts from a specific instance.
I'd recommend you check out an instance which defederates from hex. Like lemmy.ca, sh.itjust.works and sopuli.xyz.

Thanks for the explanation.

Settings -> Filters & Blocks -> Scroll to the bottom to find "Blocked Instances".

You'll still see their comments though on other instances.

not interested in that.

You’re talking about Hexbear being pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist as though they are anti-semetic and wish extermination on Jewish people. No, that’s not how Hexbear is, Hexbear is neither genocidal nor anti-semetic.

You might be talking about something else, but burning a flag of say, the US, does not mean Hexbear wants to slaughter everyone in the US. It means Hexbear stands against the US State and its ruling class, same with Israel and its genocidal ruling class.

Anti-Zionism, anti-fascism, and being pro-Palestine are all 3 Leftist stances.

Anyway, to block a community, you can do it in your settings. You will still see comments from users, just not comms.

I think they are probably talking about the community being in denial of China and Russia being a dictatorship, and the fascist/authoritarian cock sucking.

Russia is certainly a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, not sure anyone would disagree with that, the people don't have power in the Russian Federation, same with the US. China, on the other hand, is a democracy. It's not a liberal democracy, but the people have a direct influence on how their society is run, which is why 90%+ Chinese citizens support their government.

Hexbear is anti-fascist, so no clue what you're talking about there, nor why you decided to go straight for homophobic/misogynistic insults at the end.

So when does someone besides Xi get "elected" in this so called "democracy"?

When people want someone else to be in his position 👍

He did not declare himself president for life 👍

And for what it's worth, I am quite welcome most places on Lemmy. There are a few users like yourself that seem to hate me, but those are in the minority of those I interact with. I'm a Leftist, after all, and Lemmy is usually pretty left-leaning. You can keep calling everyone that disagrees with you a fascist, but that doesn't make it true.

When you are the only person allowed to be president and you end term limits that means you are expecting to be in power until you die.

Like dictators do.

You also can't support authoritarianism and be a leftist.

Fascist movements are inherently right wing, as leftist movements are defined by shared power and control.

He is not the only one allowed to have his position. Term limits were ended, yes, but that doesn't mean Xi cannot be ousted. He's very popular, so that's unlikely though.

So no, your entire premise is wrong. Whatever it is that you personally don't like, you call fascist and authoritarian.

In China other people are not allowed to seriously challenge Xi

We both know it, but your entire propaganda angle requires denial of this reality so you are incapable of engaging with that fact.

This isn't true, and you have no source, just vibes.

No u

As it stands right now, FDR was re-elected more times than Xi. Was he also a dictator?

But you do see how someone who willingly stepped down from power is not a dictator right?

You aren't engaging with reality

So Keir Starmer is dictator! He hasn't stepped down from power! Oh God!

China, on the other hand, is a democracy. It’s not a liberal democracy, but the people have a direct influence on how their society is run

Yeah. Even, if you disagree with the government, because then, you can still be democratic in jail...

Not sure what you're trying to say here, China has a much lower imprisonment ratio than the US.

What do I have to do with US?

Most democracy rankings rank it as flawed democracy anyway. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

What's the imprisonment quote of Uigurs in China by the way?

Your point was that China just imprisons people willy-nilly and thus isn't democratic, but that's just not true if we look at the numbers. As for the Uyghur question, no idea, the re-education program seems to be over or nearing completion so I don't imagine its very high.

You forgot some quotes around "re-education".

Uigur question sounds like "Jew question", which the Nazis named that way and tried to "solve" at the Wannseekonferenz...

Is there even one entity that classifies or ranks democracies that sees China as an actual democracy? If yes, please give me a link. We all know that China is a one party country. If you disagree with the government, you can be open about it and go to "re-education" 🙃. Alternative: You shut up about it, which is probably what most people do.

You asked a literal question, that's incredibly dishonest. Further, democracy is more about the ability to meaningfully impact your life politically than it is to host a theatrical choice between parties. Either way, because you asked, most people in China consider their country to be a democracy.

You asked a literal question, that’s incredibly dishonest.

What exactly?

That's a survey (quite subjective), but the results is of course interesting. I expected "democracy" to be seen as "bad stuff form the west"...

It also has a disclaimer in the text:

A note accompanying the poll results offers a disclaimer, stating that "in authoritarian countries, positive perceptions might result from different conceptions of democracy, high levels of government satisfaction, or fear of speaking out against the government."

Would be interesting to see such a survey in Russia or North Korea.

With "entity that classifies or ranks democracies", I meant something like this (a more object classification of democracies based on some criteria):

When you asked a question about the Uyghurs, and then connected it to the "Jewish Question" based on how I worded my response. That's dishonest.

Why would democracy be seen as "bad stuff from the west?" Do you think Chinese people oppose democracy, or don't know what it is?

Finally, "economic democracy" is a measure of how free Capitalists are to do as they please, not the common person. Socialist countries like China and Cuba that place firm restrictions on Capital, or Nationalist countries like Russia that restrict foreign influence over their economies, will always rank lower on a "freedom for Capitalists" index.

When you asked a question about the Uyghurs, and then connected it to the “Jewish Question” based on how I worded my response. That’s dishonest.

Oh, you meant it like that. I actually interpreted it as "The Uyghurs question", like some narrative like "The Taiwan question".

Do you think Chinese people oppose democracy

I think, Chinese people are blasted with lots of propaganda, so I would not even wonder me. But if you can make the people think that they live in a democracy, it's of course not necessary to make it look bad...

Great... You have successfully criticised one of the rankings I posted. Do you have a different one that is better according to you? I'd even accept a pro Chinese one, I'd like to see it and also to see the criteria used by yours...

Economist at least makes them transparent:

    electoral process and pluralism (12 indicators)
    functioning of government (14 indicators)
    political participation (9 indicators)
    political culture (8 indicators)
    civil liberties (17 indicators)

It seems to me you were deliberately trying to discredit me, but if you want to deny that, fine.

I think you are being deeply chauvanistic towards Chinese people. Your argument is that 1.4 billion people are too stupid or uneducated to know what democracy is, despite making up the world's largest economy (adjusted for purchasing power parity) and is regularly breaking new ground in science and technology. The "brainwashing" narrative is a holdout myth from the Cold War to attempt to explain why the people in Socialist countries supported their systems, but in all reality it holds no water. The people in China support their system because it works.

If you want to learn about how Chinese Democracy works, here is a good article on it. Or, you can go directly to Chinese state media explaining it themselves.

Your argument is that 1.4 billion people are too stupid or uneducated to ...

No.

despite making up the world’s largest economy

Not an indicator for "democratic".

The people in China support their system because it works.

Well, my view is: They can't change the system, even if they want to. Their "democracy" (if you want to call it like that) does not offer changing anything that CCP want to have. The people on Tiananmen Square for example did not support the system and... You know... Let's connect that with the point above: I don't think, people in China are well educated about that event for some reason...

Or, you can go directly to Chinese state media explaining it themselves.

I have never in my life seen a Tiktok style CCP propaganda video before, so it was quite....... (I don't know which word to put here).... But yeah, if you tell it to your population like that, they might actually think, that they live in a democracy, although even the video makes clear that ONE party in actually the one in power.

I think, the main reasons why people don't try to lean up against the government is: Because it is very risky and because of some great economic progress during the last decades that moved many people out of poverty, but that does not make the country democratic.

No, your argument does rely on thinking the people of China are simply too stupid or uneducated about what democracy is. You have no evidence that they don't know what a democracy is, yet you assume they are all brainwashed and propagandized into not knowing. When all you have are assumptions, this is chauvanism.

Please, I don't think you are intentionally being chauvanistic, but you should re-examine your biases. Even your comment on there being one major party does not mean the system isn't democratic, the people have a more direct influence on politics than simply choosing parties, like in the US.

I don't do that 👍

🙏

You are neither a mod or admin, so you have no idea who voted for what, nor do you know which accounts -if any- might be logged in from the same IP address. Once again you're just making up stories in your head and flinging insults around.

Xi isn't a dictator, nor is he the sole government of the PRC.

So why does he get to have totolitarian control over the country for life? INB4 more denial.

Constant denial of reality is a disgusting look for a "democracy". It's a disgusting look for you.

He doesn't. Can you back any of your claims up, at all?

When everything he wants to happen happens that means he has the control.

Sorry this is hard to see but it requires looking with your eyes

In other words, it's all vibes on your end with no sources, same as always.

What exactly did you "look at with your eyes" to see it? Because it seems like you just have vibes.

"If Xi isn't a dictator, then why do I think he is? Checkmate, tankies!"

So when does he willingly step down from office?

In the US it's at least every 8 years

Stop pretending you actually think not having term limits is the same as being a dictator, you would never in a million years try to claim it if we were talking about Germany or Australia or any of the other many white western countries that don't have term limits, so it's obviously not a genuine belief you hold.

Xi has been re-elected twice because people are happy with the steady improvements in their material conditions.

.
If you want to talk about a fake democracy, look no further than the US. Previously:

The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

Most people in china get executed if they don't accept the party narrative you sheep

Still no evidence 💅 and still with the insults & moralizing.

Still brigading other spaces because nobody wants your fascist bootlicker community around

You're not from this com either dumbass. All you have is insults and feigned indignation.

Try another account im sure it will work this time

What the fuck are you talking about now?

Cowbees use your main account like a big boy

Also refusing to call a dictator a dictator means you like that they are a dictator but don't like having to admit you like dictators publicly.

I only have 2 accounts, my .ml and my hexbear account. Edie is her own person, and misgendering faer when she puts her pronouns publicly is queerphobic.

Moreover, Xi isn't a dictator. Disagreeing with one person's unsourced and vibes-based analysis does not make me a fan of dictators.

Yes we know why you create alts

I don't care

I only have 2 accounts, the Hexbear account and the Lemmy.ml account. All you have is baseless accusation around on the fact that more people here agree with me than you.

I don't, actually.

Yes that's right space them out

Hello, I am Edie, not Cowbee.

You’re talking about Hexbear being pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist as though they are anti-semetic and wish extermination on Jewish people.

No, I'm talking about people from there literally suggesting to wipe out Israel... That very innovative idea hasn't worked for the last 80 years and won't in the next 80 years. That's as intelligent as suggesting to wipe out the other side. I am not interested in that kind of content.

Nobody suggests that. People want the dissolution of the Israeli state, this does not mean genocide of all Israelis, and conflating the two is a tool Zionists use in order to pretend Pro-Palestinian protestors are anti-semetic genocidal monsters.

lol, yeah, let's act like it did not happen. I'd try to find it and post you a link, but my comment was removed by the very brave moderators who did not do anything against the extremism and made sure that there was no criticism.

The word was "destruction" and that was described as "based".

Destruction of the State apparatus of Israel would indeed be based, as Israelis and Palestinians could live in a single, secular, democratic Palestine.

However will lemmy deal with dissenting or socialist comments? Oh bless my pure centrist heart!

Welcome back!

Lol at the 4 losers who downvoted every comment somebody from hexbear made. Just block the instance if you're this mad.

Blocking the instance does not block comments from that instance, only posts.

They should block the users as they see them then, not like there's actually that many.

For a second I thought this was a hexbear comment.

It's probably an alt of a hexbear user, they literally wrote that "they hate Lemmy.cafe" - https://lemmy.cafe/comment/10653709

My guess is it's the banned user Antiyanks, who has made hundreds of alts to evade being banned for constantly calling for violence and being incredibly hostile. They always use instances like lemmy.cafe and get swiftly banned.

I'm ok with them existing, besides, lemmy.cafe blocks them anyway.