We beat 'em before...
1y 12d ago by lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/PirateFrog in leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com from lemmy.dbzer0.com
Join the IWW to unionize your workplace for a general strike, and bring their machinery to a halt!
Spread the word, share it around, show your friends and family how to unionize!
Yo, I know I'm kinda late with this but please provide alt text when you're posting here in the future
Also this isn't exactly a meme either
Apologies. Alt text added!
Thank you for adding good quality alt text! w
Also I didn't mean to sound harsh in the post above, you could post similar content over on c/Socialism next time
No worries, and will do! :)
We had help with the rest of the world.
Germany didn't get out of the third Reich by themselves (which is what is going on)
Consider that Germany was in far more dire straits economically, and Hitler's approval was crazy high even towards the end of the war (something like 60 or 70%). So the entire time the opposition was outnumbered.
In comparison, Trump's approval is around 45%.
Look up the history. Hitler wasn't elected by a majority but appointed by an elite and then killed the opposition. There was massive opposition before, including street battles. But that's also why he got the dictatorial power. Apporoval means nothing if people obey executive orders.
Could you link some sources for that massive resistance? Wikipedia says there was very little organized resistence for most of his rise to power, and the regime was SO popular amongst the populace, it prevented even anti-nazi's in the intelligence services from acting on their underground networks.
What we're seeing with the current fairly widescale open resistence is far beyond anything that happened in Germany.
From what I recall from Behind the Bastards, a major part of Hitler's bloc was the upper middle-class. Shopkeepers, factory managers, so on. It basically came down to the opportunity to eliminate wealthy Jews, and taking their stuff - fancy furniture, buildings, their businesses, ect. The destruction of the Jews was a matter of greed that happened to fit hand-in-glove with racist ideology.
The scale of the opposition would be difficult to quantify - the whole reason liberals hand power to fascists in the first place is to violently suppress dissent against the status quo, after all.
Italy gives a clue, however - almost the entire north of Italy was liberated by antifascist Partisan movements (before the US and UK suppressed them, of course.) The same thing happened in Greece - and Greece had turned fascist even before Italy and Germany did.
So yeah... Hitler's (supposed) "popularity" should be viewed with the same suspicion as Putin's.
So yeah… Hitler’s (supposed) “popularity” should be viewed with the same suspicion as Putin’s.
Fair enough, though I could also see Hitlers public approval rating being real for a few reasons.
- Unlike Putin & Trump, Hitler seemed to give frequent economic concessions to industrial workers to prevent dissent.
- Their economy did improve (due to imperialist conquest and ransacking obv, which most of the population didn't seem bothered about)
- His supporters seemed to suffer the same cognitive dissonance cult-like worship that MAGA currently suffers under (despite their economic conditions getting worse in the US), but perhaps on a much wider scale.
I'm not well read enough on Greek or Italian fascism to know if Mussolini or Metaxas were worse at quelling dissent or keeping the non-targeted groups 'happy', but from what I recall of Mussolini, his conquests were far less successful than Hitler's, which may have limited his economic ability to keep people pacified in the same way.
Resistence is too late. There was opposition before the nazis gained power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold
German site says 2.5 million members were organized mostly by SPD, with 250,000 in the elite units.
They are mentioned as opponents to the SA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
Its primary purposes were providing protection for Nazi rallies and assemblies, disrupting the meetings of opposing parties, fighting against the paramilitary units of the opposing parties, especially the Roter Frontkämpferbund of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) and the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), and intimidating Romani, trade unionists, and especially Jews.
By the time Hitler assumed power in January 1933, SA membership had increased to approximately 2,000,000
Strangely there is no information about the conflicts. This is what I found, on the site of the communist units who also fought the nazis.
Since the strategy of the SA was to fight and provoke, violent encounters between the RFB and SA soon became a part of everyday life.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roter_Frontk%C3%A4mpferbund
What we’re seeing with the current fairly widescale open resistence is far beyond anything that happened in Germany.
If it is not clear, it's the other way round.
I wasn't aware of the scale of those opposition parties, the Reichsbanner in particular. I also can't really find much info on their conflicts pre-1932, I assume they are only written about in German? Definitely an interesting topic to delve into.
Cheers for sharing the solid research :)
Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti. There is a free pdf file of it with some searching I know.
Found it. You read this and it's gonna sound a lot like modern day.
Eh, generally not a fan of Parenti, as he gives far too much of a pass to authoritarian marxist-leninists regimes for my comfort.
Thanks for the going through the legwork to share the link, though.
This is what Parenti would say to that. 3:15 for the relevant part. But the whole story is good. I hope you open yourself up to some more historical materialism and not discount someone because they understand the history more than what you've been told.
Parenti definitely doesn't give a pass like you say. But he understands the material circumstances in which revolution occurs. What you call "authoritarian" might me seizing lands from slave plantations in Cuba. I'm not sure exactly what you mean. But I really think you should more reading from him not less. Especially, if you haven't even read his most iconic book. (The one I recommended). Have you actually read anything from him?
I've watched his Yellow speech, and I've read segments from Blackshirts and reds. I understand his point of view, but I fundamentally disagree with his conclusions.
Seizing land from capitalists is fine, it's what bureaucratic marxist-leninist regimes do with it afterward that bothers me. It's an age old disagreement between ML's and Anarchists that stretches back to at least the Russian Revolution war, and is something that cannot be compromised on.
Cuba's agrarian reforms eventually centralized the majority of farming land under state control instead of simply all of it to the people in a decentralized manner, which they were later forced to do after the USSR fell in the 90's (but did not cede such power without that outside force).
That centralization, that state control, is what I detest and denounce, as it furthers the ability for coercive and unequal hierarchies to exist and flourish in an ideology that is supposedly intended to eliminate them. The ML argument is that it must be done to survive against the enemies of socialism, and may point to the fact that there was never a long-term anarchist society as proof that decentralized power doesn't work, but then they conveniently pass over the fact that all promising Anarchist revolutions were actively fought and suppressed by ML's, such as the betrayal of Nestor Mahkno's Black Army of Ukraine, the Anarchists during the Spanish Revolution, The Kronstadt Rebellion, and many more.
You suggest I simply misunderstand history, yet it was through intense historical research that I came to what, at least to me, seemed like self evident conclusions based on historical fact. The fundamental disagreement between us is that we will likely always disagree on what is fact, misinterpretation, or fiction. You trust your sources, I have come to trust mine, and thus our conclusions, and perhaps even our mental reality, will lead us to reject each other's solutions to the same problem we all face: Capitalism.
To return to Parenti; his view is to suggest that the downsides of Marxist-Leninist regimes do not offset the material living condition improvements for the people living under them.
I contend that minimizes just how unjust and evil those downsides truly are. I would personally find living under the USSR just as hellish as living under Capitalism. I might have better healthcare, but then I'd have to contend with living in a deeply distrustful society where having the wrong thought could land me in the gulag or executed, all while a bureaucratic elite dictate how things will be structured and run no differently from a capitalist boss.
I have read enough ML literature and watched enough documentaries to know that I want nothing to do with that ideology, and I assume you feel the same about Anarchism, otherwise you'd be one, eh? 😅
If not, then I would implore the same from you, in that you open yourself up to Anarchist critique of Marxist-Leninism.
Yeah I'm not reading all that. Sorry mate. You're going way off topic from the initial reason I recommended the book in the first place. It covers the history of resistance to Nazis by leftist groups in Germany. But you seem to want to ignore that for some leftist (anarchist) purity. Like somehow you can't learn history because it's written by a ML. Weird take and weird rant.
tl;dr, you said I lacked an understanding of history, and didn't understand what I meant by authoritarian. I elaborated. I don't trust Marxist-Leninism due to numerous historical examples of their failings to cooperate with other anti-capitalists (I.E, killing them), and consistant human rights abuses.
Yeah. So you're irrational. You're not going to read a historical account by a ML because they're an ML. That would be like me not reading Chomsky's manufacturing concent because he's an anarchist. It's dumb. You're being dumb and close minded and missing out on one of the best historical accounts of the thing you asked about.
Your loss. But don't act like you're being rational here. No wonder you fail so hard understanding historical materialism. You flat out refuse to read it for some liberal moral grandstanding masked as being an anarchist.
If I suggested to you that a died in the wool capitalist and white supremacist wrote the best treatise on a particular historical event, I think you would be highly rational to be extremely skeptical of that claim, and not give it much time, if any (I certainly wouldn't), due to how likely it is that the material is extremely biased and likely to misrepresent reality, rendering its use as a lens of historical analysis useless.
I see Marxist-Leninists as similarly biased, and in some ways cult-like, as it requires an inordinate amount of cognitive dissonance to give an earnest look at it today and truly believe it to be the best path forward (In my opinion, anyway, and that ultimately matters very little). I would say the same to someone trying to convert me to become religious, and they too would likely say my dislike and lack of willingness to read their scripture is irrational.
Obviously to someone in that world, I'm speaking heresy, but it does exemplify that we're both quite opinionated on the other's views in the same way two offshoot religions are, and like those religions, there is little chance of converting one to the other when they are both set in what they think of each other, though I do still hope that you see ML for what it truly is someday.
No. We are not both that way. I read plenty by anarchist and demsocs and even MLs I disagree with. Because I understand that we all share fundamentals that are good and can be learned from each other. Especially when it comes to defending successful revolutions and defending the working class.
You, on the contrary are (by your own admission) treating this like some religion or some team sport. To the extent that you thought an analogy of leftist to white supremacist actually made sense in your head. Wow. Absolutely zero material analysis.
To be clear, it's ok to make extreme analogies. That's not the issue. It's that your analogy is entirely based on "bad group I disagree with" and literally nothing more.
You basically sound like a liberal that calls themselves an anarchist. It's pretty embarrassing.
God, I wish anarchist actually had a successful revolution to point to so us MLs could pick apart every little failure of its post revolution society too. But, alas, they have never lasted long enough to actually be able to defend themselves. So you get to sit on your hill of "purity" while MLs actually get shit done.
God, I wish anarchist actually had a successful revolution to point to so us MLs could pick apart every little failure of its post revolution society too. But, alas, they have never lasted long enough to actually be able to defend themselves.
I actually mentioned in my long comment you didn't want to read there were no successful Anarchist revolutions due to ML's betraying them each and every time to quash any chance of them succeeding.
Just more ahistorical garbage from someone that admittedly doesn't read anything that might not agree with their existing beliefs. You're embarrassing yourself with every reply mate. Now I'm just entertained.
"Each and every time". Cope more mate. You just generalized so much history into a single sentence it's embarrassing.
Yeah it's just the damn MLs getting in the way. You really are just a lib. Or I'm being very generous you fall for liberal talking points.
No respectable anarchist outside of the western world would ever agree with you. You're just repeating garbage liberal filled anarchist without any real ideas.
from someone that admittedly doesn’t read anything that might not agree with their existing beliefs.
As I mentioned before, I did read them, and I concluded that further research into ML will not be fruitful.
You just generalized so much history into a single sentence it’s embarrassing.
I only generalize due to longer comments being undesirable (more detail in the long previous comment, if you like).
Either way, further discussion will only result in needless conflict. I genuinely wish you the best. Farewell.
Once white people are getting vanned for lack of patriotic fevour I'm sure Trumps ratings will increase, too.
Germany didn't want to, at least not a majority. Maybe if Germans would have known where it was going (unwinnable war vs all neighbours at once etc), they would have tried early. US Americans have the advantage of this knowledge.
Look where having the advantage of this knowledge got us.
Maybe knowledge is a bit intense for some.
Unfortunately, that knowledge doesn't just help those who wish to fight against it. Those who seek that kind of authoritarian power also were able to learn what worked and what didn't.
They then spent decades patiently cultivating the type of society, through extensive social manipulation that has since been exacerbated thanks to expanding technology, to create the perfect environment for them to try again.
This is all by design of those who hold the levers of industry to further facilitate their concentration of wealth.
This sounds like the defeatist attitude they want you to have. Just give up, it's hopeless. No one is helping you.
No, I don't think I will. I think I'll do something. We need more people feeling empowered to take back this country. Not thoughts of hopelessness.
LOL 'help'
The Soviets killed 85% of the nazi troops.
The rest was all other countries combined.
And they would've been on the Atlantic in no time without trouble if the allies hadn't come in to take a piece of the European loot.
The nazi's enemy were the communists.
They didn't fight as much against the west which gave them all the chances to surrender and escape punishment.
By killing them. You can't defeat a nazi in debate, but you can hang them.
You can’t defeat a nazi in debate
Yes, you can. As long as you're not a liberal.
We never beat them.
The west ensured that Nazism survived, filling the ranks of West Germany's security services with them and then institutionalising fascist terrorist groups all throughout Europe through it's "Gladio" networks. Japan's economy was essentially just handed back to the very same pack of colonialists and industrialists that had fuelled Japan's imperialism in the 20s.
Hell, even the Romanian Communist Party got in on the act - those vicious Iron Guard bastards were just too good at torture and murder to pass up, I guess.
So no... we never beat them.
Maybe it's too pedantic of me but I think we beat them. We failed to fix the corrupted system that spawned them. The inequity and the propaganda, The oligarchs pitting a us against each other. Marginalizing groups as scapegoats.
We (the US) let those little those freedom checks and balances we were touted in school be destroyed with barely a whimper
Scratch a fascist and a liberal bleeds - see, that's how you can tell that we did not, in fact, defeat the fascists - if we did, liberalism would be dead and buried, too.
Instead, we allowed "liberal democracy" to nurse fascism back to health, hone it's murderousness by using it as a tool of colonialist domination, and pretend to be shocked when these fascists just suddenly show up to protect their precious capitalist status quo back home in the imperial core.
None of that was an accident - when we say fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost we don't mean it figuratively.
Eloquent, but also bull#$%. What would you do? Execute every last person in Germany and Japan to make sure you rooted out the fascists? None of the fasscists that were alive then are in charge of what's going on now. The neofacisct groups have nothing to do with WWII other than they decided to celebrate them. This isn't the problem of an organization allowed to thrive and grow, it's an ideal that's being picked up by people and used as a tool.
Oh, it's "bull#$%," eh?
No, Clyde, I'll tell you what is actually bullshit - people like YOU literally WATCHING both liberals and fascists play their respective parts to protect the status quo right in front of your goddamn eyes and STILL pretending that any of this is some great mystery to you.
That's bullshit.
Hold on, I'm trying to find my tiniest violin while I block you.
You're up for three more years of your liberal overlords pretending to dislike fascists while they tell you to "vote harder" - you might want to save that violin for yourself.
Wow, responding on 5 month old comments. Please tell me you have a better hobby.
You're wrong, they did not fail it was intentionally.
US/UK made sure plenty of fascists escaped after surrendering to them.
Kept them in power in all of Europe with a slap on the wrist at most.
How many nazis where trialed at the Nuremberg virtue signaling trials? 24.
NATO literally had fascist regimes in it, Spain, Portugal, Greece.
Even leading NATO/EU and various countries. .
All of this has been swept under the carpet.
https://ebeggin.substack.com/p/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reich
https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2024/01/12/nato-as-seen-from-one-who-grew-up-under-us-sponsored-neofascism-unherd/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo
LOL, even the Nazs knew the problem with that! "(c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved. The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden."
Of course, then they then go too far with: "We demand the legal prosecutions of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural even which violate this demand."
You are doing a fantastic job of pitting one group against another, so apparently knowing the problem doesnt make you immune to it.
Pepe did nothing wrong
Yeah I thought we had moved past this whole pepe is alt-right thing. He's a beloved little goof.
The Nazis can take my little pepes out of my cold dead hands
It's already been done. I've seen tons of regular ho-hum non-racist Pepes the past few years since Matt Furie killed off the character in the official comics.
I mean the vast vast majority of them have always been innocuous. The racist ones were always very rare pepes
Be the change you want to see in the world.
From the only licensed Pepe plush.
From Boy’s Club comics to appropriated alt right symbol (WT actual F tho), Pepe has often been misunderstood. That's why we work with his creator Matt Furie to make the only officially licensed Pepe toy out there. Feels good man.
We partner with youth shelters and people who care to make sure all of our goodies do some good...ies.
But the call is coming from inside the house this time.
The call was always coming from inside the house - fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost, after all.
And then turned outwards again
Yeah, the two most prominent examples of fascism in history (Germany and Italy) were only beaten by a combined military power much, much greater than them. Even as they were literally being bombed into rubble and their military situation was beyond hopeless, they never overthrew their fascist leaders.
Maybe they're only the most prominent b/c they weren't stopped?
Remember the mid-2000's Ukrainians Orange revolution? I wouldn't be surprised you don't b/c those fasciat losers were stopped from within, so we don't talk about them too often. Which is good, honestly.
They won in 2014
Yep. And the most prominent fascist power that wasn't overthrown externally (Francoist Spain) lasted 40 years until it's demogogue died. The reason it wasn't a bigger problem for the world at large was that it was a politically isolated minor power.
The world hasn't yet seen something like an (openly) fascist modern USA.
Japan killed well over twenty million people.
I came here to write this exact statement I'm glad to see somebody else already did.
Bingpot!
Down with MAGA!
The USA supported the Nazis in the beginning and were reluctant to intervene. Then we did and took all the credit. It was to weaken Russia. Now the world is a global capitalist hellhole. Chynah is capitalist and Russia is capitalist. You are a subject. You are not free. Freedom is relative and bound by natural law. Unions need leverage. Thank gawd all men die.
It was for a variety of reasons that all aligned when German u-boats sank the lusitania.. Wait that was WW1. I've gotta go read some wikipedia.
More left victory memes for the cause ❤️
That's the spirit - we'll win if we just post enough memes! C'mon, who's with me? Let's get scrollin!
Unionists versus the confederates all over again, history definitely repeats itself
The unionist versus confederate war never ended, it just went into a cold war phase for awhile and is now heating up again.
And this time can we forgo the special treatments for "usefuls"?
Like, for example, the commander of unit 731, who is a mass murderer and mass torturer, but since he had some medical data (which turned out to be worthless anyway) he got a new identity and enjoyed a nice free life
So say "we" as if we are in charge.
"There isn't a genocide happening..."
Do you mean besides the one in Gaza, where U.S. money and munitions have been facilitating the bombing and starvation of children for over a year?
My question is rhetorical. If you have a response, I'm not interested in hearing it.
I meant in america, apologies.
Yes, no genocide on homeground (unless you could count the genocide of native americans as still on going), but there's slavery (and it has a big enough market influence that it lowers wages significantly) and concentration camps.
lemmy is full of people that hate fascists. simple as.
Cool they also think everyone they disagree with is a fascist.
they think that everyone that fits the Definition of fascism, is a fascist
But we do, in fact, have enough information to call Trump a fascist (and thus anyone who is a suporter of his). The defintion of fascism, as stated by wikipedia is:
- far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement.
- characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition
- belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race
- strong regimentation of society and the economy.
- Opposed to communism, democracy, liberalism, pluralism, and socialism
Trump has, in the not so distant past:
- Claimed expanded executive authority
- refused to transfer power after losing an election
- has praised authoriterian leaders
- Frequently made appeals to racial and cultural superiority (e.g., calling certain countries “shitholes,” claiming immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of 'America')
- Attempted to delegitimize dissent or protest as unpatriotic
- Just a couple of days ago called the national guard (not sure if that's the correct translation) on anti-deportation protesters
- Has, and is, sending deported people into de-facto concentration camps
- Has suggested using the military for domestic policing
- Has endorsed populist economic nationalism (tariffs, breaking international trade norms, attacking corporations that oppose him)
And much more, but let's just jump to a conclusion anyways, right? Nazwałbym Pana debilem, ale tak nie wypada, to tego nie zrobę.
Not sure what that last sentence is about but either way I simply disagree with your conclusion.
Shocking response.
Bro leave Pepe out of this ;w;
Would we have beat the nazis if they just stayed in Germany?
Nope. The US, UK and France weren't waging war on fascism in any way whatsoever - they were waging war on rival empires.
That's the whole reason they never went to war with Francoist Spain - they helped him into power, after all.
Nope, they sat by and watched as Germany sunk into fascism and began their ethic cleansing and putting people in cattle cars to take to camps, if Germany had never invaded Poland they would've continued to sit by and do fuck all.
After Germany invaded Poland they have continued to sit by and do about fuck all for a year.
In Spain the fascist stayed in Spain, participation on ww2 was very small and Franco betrayed Hitler as soon as he saw he was going to lose, so there was no reason for the USA to invade Spain and we got 40 years of fascist dictatorship.
That's the spirit 👍
Yeah we beat them when they were them, but now they're us.
They were us back then too, and we still beat them.
No. There's a gigantic difference between nazis speaking freely and nazis running the country.
Put on a russian, blue hat with red arrow and winni puh too <3
The trouble is: the poster misrepresents the situation. The guy wearing the red hat is the one holding the rifle and bayonet this time.
So were the nazis. We just out rifle'd and bayonette'd them.
I've been saying for a while that the left in the US needs to embrace the 2nd ammendment.
Dark times are fast approaching... be prepared
I'm being downvoted for pointing out an obvious discrepancy, one that needs to be recognized and reckoned with?
In WW2 the full federal might of the United States government and armed forces were aligned against the Axis.
Which side is the administration on now? Against whom were the National Guard and Marines deployed against this week? Reality check time.
Does it make you feel better to lash out and rage against people who agree with you, who are on your side and opposed to the bullshit we're all facing? Slipping into a comfy fantasy, where we imagine the "good guys" have the guns and power this time, isn't productive, unless it's motivating you to arm yourself and build solidarity. Do you have your rifle and bayonet? I do. Are you supporting people who are with you, or are you just sitting in your chair screaming at the wrong people on the Internet?
Sounds like you better fix that
Guys you lost.
The Soviets beat them. LOL
Shows how much you 'socialists' know.
No country alone beat them. The Soviets did more than the others but it wasn't them alone
85 fucking percent.
You can dislike that all you want, these are facts.
The Soviet people also did most of the dying.
And?
Perhaps stop glorifying things you don't understand. The Soviet people doing most of the fighting and dying is what the West wanted all along.
Giving credit to whom it belongs when some fake leftists claim it was the west and in doing so showing they are wrong is a sign that "I don't understand"? LOL
is a sign that “I don’t understand”
Yeah. 20 milion dead is not a gotcha, Clyde.
Why are you sickly obsessed with how many died defending their country?
Are you some americunt jerking off to that?
Or should they just have let the nazis kill them?
Fuck off
Oh... 20 million dead people is just a cheap prop to you, is that it?
What are you? A tankie?
I said fuck off. I don't talk to morons. blocking you
Last time, the French resisted and we helped when we and England showed up.
Now we are resisting, while we wait for backup from the French and English.
And yet notice that no Western democracy has condemned this.
When Iran protests and the police get violent against them, the west condemns them and pledges supports for democracy and yet here there's silence.
Hitler was very popular in the US and UK until about 1938...
All that resisting and fighting took place once War had started. We left the Jews, LGBT, Socialists, disabled people, Roma, Poland and Checkoslovakia, and dissenting Germans to be rolled over and ground up first because potential woke-socialist mind virus was scarier than literal fascism.
Not saying that these protests aren't getting suppressed but: The Iranian Police didn't use rubber bullets to shoot protesters. They actually shot protesters. They abducted a 16 year old girl, raped and beat her to death and 2 weeks later returned the body to the family, claiming she committed suicide.
They hanged at least 8 people for protesting. The Iranian state didn't just get violent, they slaughtered their citizens in the streets.
They abducted a 16 year old girl
So that's where they got inspiration from.
Have we asked them yet?
I don't think we'll be getting any backup this time, it's up to us.
IMO, other nations like Canada, Germany, and so forth will have relations with the Blue States in a civil war. Trump's regime is a terrible trading partner, dishonest, evil, abrasive, and generally just unlikable for anyone who has good sense or pragmatism. During the 1st American Civil War, the South had major issues, because they didn't have much trade with Europe - which meant supply shortages, a lack of wealth, and so forth. That cotton may have been picked by slaves, but isn't going to become lucre if it sits in a warehouse.
After awhile, when the Blue States have a more formal coalition, I think Europe will go beyond trade to offer war support. That is the sort of thing that needs troops to be readied, mentally and materially. It would be kinda like how America was in the leadup to Pearl Harbor. We were doing stuff to indirectly support the Allies, even if our blood wasn't spilt.
I can't discount that possibility. I could see them supplying the blue states covertly, similar to how France did during the Spanish Civil War, but I'm not so confident on if they'd send boots to help.
This does assume the military fractures for an open civil war to take place. Without that, we're looking at an Irish troubles situation, I figure.
I don’t think we’ll be getting any backup this time, it’s up to us.
If you don't, you're screwed - bullets don't grow on trees... not even in the US.
I mean, if things descend into civil war, I would hope that some country out there is willing to throw their hat in the ring like that, like Canada or some countries in the EU, but I get the vibe that they'd be afraid to take a side in case the left lost.
But if they want to actually jump in, I'd certainly welcome the help!
from my central european perspective, currently there is not much we could do. It is an matter of internal US politics, and on the grand scale, it's not like your whole country is on fire. Sure, we can send harsh letters or something, but i don't think our input would even make it on the topics debated in congress. And everything else like military action would just make us the enemy. i don't think there is anything that would unite the US faster than that - under TACOs banner, so thats the last thing you want (ignoring that we couldn't even pull something like this off without help from China, noone else comes even close in military strength. don't forget, you guys have the strongest airforce, and then the second strongest airforce, and i think the 4th strongest airforce is US too)
so, you have my moral support, and i can post in your support, but i think thats about it until you are deep into civil war territory. sorry 😟
while we wait for backup from the French and English
You're going to be waiting a long, long time.
A socialist party who does dragnet operations on socialists, communists and trade unionists.
Very socialist, that.
I'm old now and I'm still not a Nazi, fuck off.
..what kind of dumb fucking response is this? LMFAO
You don’t matter.
Fuck this nonsense, you’re just a kowtowing coward fuck, I have become far more progressive in my old age. You’re just a fucking coward and a tool making excuses for your lack of spine, we are not all as weak as you.
Have fun dying as a coward choking on the cock of authority, if that’s how it is I’ll gladly die with the blood and flesh of fascists in my teeth rather than begging on my knees.
Fuck you.
All I’m reading here is “if the authoritarian regime puts its dick in your mouth, just suck it to completion and then let them Put a bullet in your head.”
You are the exact kind of evil that these fuckers require you to be, you are an enabler of death and fascism, you feeble piece of shit. Get fucked and go die, the world is better off without the pawns of authoritarian rhetoric like yourself, you fascist piece of shit.
Supporting and enabling fascists makes you a fascist, point blank, and asking stupid obvious questions just shows how fucking obvious your stance is. Get fucked, we know you’re not that stupid, you’re just a fucking cunt. We see you, and we will remember you.
No you don’t. Stop pretending, just take the fucking mask off. This whole schtick is so fucking old, just own your hate. At least be true to yourself, you fucking nazi.
Then stop being a pawn of authoritarian rhetoric, and fuck off, we are dealing with actual Nazis here and your fucking rhetoric is the exact same shit they are saying.
Fuck the fuck off and shut the fuck up, you conservative shitbird, some of us are dealing with collapse.
Can you be more of a spineless cliché, you fucking puppet?
Go fuck yourself, you conformist fuck.
Sure.
Fuck, you are stupid.
Are you a middle schooler or something? This is literally just you saying “I am rubber and you are glue! NYA NYA NYA!”
So stupid. Grow the fuck up.
You’re just rambling. You’re an old man yelling at clouds.
Go die.
"nooo, don't call the fascists fascists, they are just conservatives pining for a non-existent, ethnopurist, mythical past while deporting people to camps using emergency powers. That's like, totally not fascism."