Women are anonymously spilling tea about men in their cities on viral app
10mon 27d ago by feddit.org/u/fantawurstwasser in technology from www.nbcnews.com
Oh great another centralized repository of data about people (uploaded without their knowledge or consent in the case of the men) that definitely won't be abused by bad actors
Anddddd......., it's already been breached: https://www.404media.co/women-dating-safety-app-tea-breached-users-ids-posted-to-4chan/
This post is directly under a post about the breach in my feed.
Oooooooooof
Saw that coming.
Yeah, it sounds like some well intentioned but extremely misinformed and unskilled (in the context of software and systems engineering) people just vibe-coded the thing together, and (shocked pikachu) it was a complete piece of shit security-wise.
Huh...
Part of these types of things generally seem like a well-intentioned idea, but it's also so creepy, scammy, and gross. This data won't stop here by any means, and will be sold or used in a million different even shittier ways. Pretty fucked.
It's fine, no reason to sell the data, the service was literally just breached!
Don't these companies know how to properly configure a database? This seemed like it was completely preventable.
Lots of breaches are entirely preventable, but lots of companies don't like to pay for qualified employees that could prevent them.
They don't care. It's not their information and there are no consequences.
Starting salary for a cyber security expert is around 70,000€ and that's for someone who's relatively inexperienced so you would probably want to pay more like 90,000€, for these startups that's seven or eight employees worth of salary and they don't want to pay it.
The problem is it leads to things like this happening which kills their entire company.
Or they could do what they're doing now which is work with a consultancy company which doesn't cost anywhere near as much money but still costs quite a bit.
Don't worry I'm sure the owner has already pocketed $10m in investor money and is currently parachuting away to plan their next fuckup
Don't these companies know
No. The answer is always no
Then how would they sell access in a deniable way?
You think a company paddling gossip under the guise of "woman safety" would care about protecting personal information? 🤣
Hahaha, that's hilarious. I've just seen it on /g/ today.
😂
yeah, well-intentioned things tend to go sour when exposed to the glow of anonymity on the internet. Starts off innocent, and goes downhill fast.
The creator, Sean, stating that he started this app as a reaction to the online dating scene his mother experienced, seems fine: an anti-catfishing app would be great.
To give the devil their due, the data they collect might also be valuable as data on how women discuss men online, which at a cursory glance seems to favor far more hyperbole than I see in everyday life.
Yea I agree with you
Someone saw that Black Mirror episode and said “Let’s make that for real.”
I think you mean that Community episode.
Creating a digital social hierarchy was on my 2030 bingo card... dang.
And they got the idea from the two prior databases.
At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from the classic sci-fi novel "Don't Create the Torment Nexus"
Oh yeaaa hahahaha you are right 😂😂😂 sounds just like that episode
“He’s a cheater,” Walker said, reading some of the comments on one post out loud.
"What clubs does he go to?" another person asked on a different post. "He’s cute."
That illustrates the big problem...
Some guys are lying assholes and horrible people, but so are some women.
It's not going to take long for them to get massively sued, there's no way they're vetting the posted info, and it's literally cyber bullying.
The guy (yes it's a guy) who made and owns this is a fucking idiot for not seeing the lawsuits coming.
Some guys are lying assholes and horrible people, but so are some women.
and some guys anonymously posing as women online to undermine the competition.
Lol, reminds me of a different thread about trump pretending to be a woman and writing into newspapers:
“Based on the fact that I work for Donald Trump as his secretary—and therefore know him well—I think he treats women with great respect, contrary to what Julie Baumgold implied in her article … I do not believe any man in America gets more calls from women wanting to see him, meet him, or go out with him. The most beautiful women, the most successful women—all women love Donald Trump.”
Carolin Gallego December 7, 1992. (Not a realperson)
https://mashable.com/article/donald-trump-carolin-gallego-new-york-magazine-letter
JFC, as if this guy wasn't already the poster child for cringe.
Also he wrote then like AI writes now.
Posted yesterday about how he was the late night show's favorite target back in the day. FFS, does no one remember Trump: The Board Game! Or when he insisted everyone refer to him as "The Donald"?
Here's Obama tearing him a new asshole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHckZCxdRkA
And that's how we got President Trump!
—
Did he use GPT?
says right at the end: this is from 1992
Outside of the crap going on in the US fascist resurgence, women are generally defined as a minority that requires equity / special benefits and protections. Making an app to "protect women" by crowdsourcing information about potentially predatory / negative men is viewed as 'good', and would likely be 'ok' by many western country standards.
Making an app about women, with similar 'experiences' reported by guys, would be considered predatory, and would get shut down.
We can already see plenty of related things out and about -- like "women only" companies getting applauded by govt / media, while the same sources shame any business that doesn't attempt to get 50%+ women on staff. We shut down gentlemen's clubs for being discriminatory, but we cheer women's only spaces. Genders are not treated equally in the public's eye, and it generally skews in favour of benefiting women at this point, especially once it hits media/govt/courts.
I think this is the more realistic take on how it'd play out.
Imagine if the genders were swapped in this situation
Or if this was targeted at virtually any other category of people
Oh god rate my maid.
Tea just suffered a massive data leak
<sarcasm>Else how can you certify you are a woman ? We don't want a man lurking around</sarcasm>
Yeah that's what the article is about
So I've had multiple GF's who were physically abusive, cheaters, chronic liars, gaslighters... so is there a version of this for me? Or are men never victims still?
So glad this didn't exist like ~15 years ago. My one ex, who decided to start a relationship with her co-worker, while we were looking for and then financing a house... When I broke up with her (like 1 week after closing), while I was trying to process the betrayal, she took to Facebook and text messages spamming EVERYONE a fake story about me, trying to pass herself as the victim. Even including a fake pregnancy! All to make me look bad because I caught her cheating. Thankfully, this app didn't exist, and several of my female friends reached out to me for my side of the story.
But all the "stories" on that app, 100% vetted, right? We get unbiased, both sides of the story, right... Evidence was required... right? Because imaging the harm someone could do if they were just petty, or scornful, of just bored. It's not like women have ever made false rape claims... right....
I'm not trying to imply my situation is what all men go through... but you can't just dismiss it, or other men, because it doesn't fit into your social media-fueled narrative. Yes, some men suck (and that's selling it short). But, women are just as capable of the same level of suck. We are all, after all, human.
People suck, hopefully you were able to take her to court for defamation because what she did is almost the definition of libel where I live (Maryland, US).
People who pretend to be victims upset me almost as much as people who victimize others (they are not equal, but it is still so fucked up). Victims have a rough enough time already being taken seriously. It doesn't take more than a few false positives to completely take the air out of legitimate accusations from victims. I wish there was some way to solve this problem.
I don't know why they upset you "almost as much" - people who pretend to be victims are in fact people that are victimizing others. "Other sides" notwithstanding, you said it yourself in so many words: they're also further victimizing actual victims.
I frankly find it more inexcusable.
For me, it's hard to say one or the other is worse. It might depend on circumstances. Is someone making a false claim of rape worse than someone raping someone, or worse than a child rapist, serial rapist, etc? In damage collectively done to all victims, quite possibly. However, the intention of the false witness isn't usually to delegitimize the claims of other victims. It's usually shortsited and desperate - a desire to avoid social consequences or to punish the accused. I suspect such false claims are also more common among a younger, naive, immature population. It's fucked up and selfish, surely. As fucked up as feeling you have the right to use another person's body for your own physical pleasure or to assert dominance or whatever shit goes through a rapists mind? I don't know.
Frankly, I've never been the victim or perpetrator of either crime, nor have I even been in a situation where either crossed my mind. All I'm qualified to say is that I wish neither crimes would happen to anyone.
Generally yes but it's not nearly always so clear cut that one is 100% the offender and the other one 0%. Which is why attention to details, context, sophistication, listening to both sides before coming to a conclusion, etc. Is so important. But guess what kind of things get lost when taking part in such a one-sided blame game on the semi-anonymous internet.
Apps like this but also social media more generally allow for one-sided public naming and shaming of Individuals who probably don't even know about it. It's problematic because it can be deeply unfair.
I get that there is also value in women protecting themselves against predators but more than likely most content within the app/service is probably one-sided public blaming and gossiping.
And as we all know from right-wing propaganda, being the first to make a bold claim public and generate headlines with it is very powerful and spreads the message far and wide, whether true or false, and many will just believe it's true without further investigation.
To answer your question, there have been apps like this for men… but they keep getting taken down after users start posting revenge porn.
I also have been attacked by an ex.
I can see both sides - if it's an app about suffering abuse, all should be welcome vs there aren't enough women-only spaces online and those that exist are frequently brigaded.
Both have reasonable arguments. Likely a compromise where a filter could be set where you can choose to opt your posts into the women-only feed.
However, my argument would be this app is bad and no one should be on it. Even if all the content is true, a gossip app that covers legally questionable things is likely not a sensible place to hang around.
Inb4 "found the bear"
There is no way this would get abused by threat actors and mentally unstable types!
Or by a vindictive ex.
If I was going to make something like this, it would have to incorporate trust chains. I don't care if some maga-hat says this lady is horrible. I care if my good friend Alex says she's horrible. One person's "this person won't shut up about communism" is a big red flag (no pun intended) but for someone else that's the dream.
When you sign up, you'd need to be referred to someone or be a root node. Anyone connected to you can be weighted differently. If some section of the tree is misbehaving, prune it.
But that's a lot of work
Same thing should be done with product reviews, and social media comments, etc., etc.
Really if someone makes a robust way to have a trust chain that integrates into the Internet at large, that would prevent a whole universe of problems we have in modern society.
It makes me super uneasy. I can easily see this type of model being expanded and applied to more and more things.
Call for a refund because something you ordered never showed up? Wrong trust chain, you're automatically lying, refund denied.
Report someone for T-boning you? Wrong trust chain, you're now arrested for hitting them.
Etc...
As with all technology, applying it in the wrong circumstances causes more problems than not.
It's less about technology and more about evading accountability, I'd say. This would be a sort of cyberpunk version of "How dare you accuse the baron's son of tipping your cows?! He's a fine upstanding young man, so of course these accusations are groundless."
I like where you're going with this!
Kinda wild that app stores allow something like that. I wonder how long it'll take for someone to build the same up, but with the roles reversed: Men anonymously talking about local women 😬
In theory it should be fine the problem is women always assume bad intent on the part of men, and good intent on the part of other women despite a fairly obvious fact that that's ridiculous.
The problem is there doesn't seem to be any system in place for review or correction. What if there someone who just doesn't like me and posts photos and lies about me? Not only would I have no opportunity to correct the record, but unless someone I knew who was on the app told me about it, I wouldn't even know because men aren't allowed on.
Its like some random social media account shows up and you never signed up but a profile for you has already been made and has all these photos you never even shared on there because someone chose to upload them in your place.
Facebook literally does this, they just never let you see it, it's internal for advertising purposes
There was a forum in the Benelux that did exactly that and they had to shut down.
Of course they would. It's only allowed as long as the genders aren't flipped.
This is fucked up.
This is psychotic.
There is, unsurprisingly, a Black Mirror episode about this.
"★★☆☆☆ Not a meaningful encounter"
I think some student used AI along with the Meta sunglasses with cameras to do exactly this and it's creepy how much info about you is just out there
Thank God we have the GDPR in Europe.
Many states in the US have similar regulations. For example, California’s regulations are famously similar to GDPR.
What other states other than California has it?
Thanks for the source.
I imagine there are whatsapp groups for things like this.
But I'm going to pretend they don't exist because I already feel self-conscious enough.
If you think about it: The GDPR applies to all data of EU citizens regardless of where they are or where you are. There is no way that this app is not having some EU guy in New York in it and therefore totally in violation of GDPR
And what is the EU going to do about it? Governing bodies can declare extraterritorial laws all they want, but they are meaningless unless they have a way to enforce them.
The treaties and international laws between these countries absolutely allow the EU to enforce GDPR against companies and individuals outside of the EU if it involves an EU citizen as the victim. I know this because I have to work with it every day and I'm from the US.
No European law applies outside Europe. That's kind of the nature of laws.
Other users have written about GDPR, but just FYI: There are a lot of laws that apply worldwide. You might not like it, but states really do have laws in place that they are applying to everybody in the world. Thailand has draconian laws about insulting their king and they totally do not care if you insulted him inside or outside of the country. They can't arrest you whereever you are, but if you ever try to visit Thailand, you will get arrested. And many countries also have laws in place about stuff that their citizen do outside of the country.
Sure they can write laws making it illegal to claim the king of Thailand is a doddering old fool anywhere in the world. Good for them.
They have no legal right to enforce it on me, though. If I visit their country, of course, I will be subject to their laws. But they can't apply it to me until then.
That’s the big part of what makes GDPR so wide-reaching and impactful. It protects European residents, not European IP addresses. If you’re a resident of Europe, you’re covered under GDPR. Even if you’re visiting the US. That’s why even Americans get GDPR questions when visiting sites, because the site can’t just filter by IP location to determine whether or not you need to be shown the GDPR prompt.
Enforcement can be trickier, sure. But to be clear, GDPR does cover non-European companies as long as they’re interacting with a European resident.
Wrong. US citizen while in EU falls under GDPR. EU citizen while anywhere outside of EU falls under GDPR.
It is up to EU to enforce it.
That's kind of the nature of laws.
They can write whatever they like, but in practical terms, they can only enforce their laws inside their borders.
This kind of thing has been done before.
For example:
From the first one
One profile the New Times uncovered supposedly of a philandering ex-boyfriend was actually a gay man who had spurned a woman's advances.
There's no way a libel database could be a bad business model
Friendly reminder that Facebook started as FaceMash, an app for men at Harvard to rate the attractiveness of women.
Both are bad. At least these women are nominally using it for safety and not just looks rating.
Finally, I would be really darn cautious of using any app like FaceMash or Tea. Seems like a great way to get sued for defamation. Or to become the target of escalated behavior of one of the bad ones.
I know one of the false electors from the 2020 election. They met their wife on Hot or Not.
What a weird place some societies have come to.
Using technology as a surrogate for community.
How is this not a stalking app?
Because women cant men. /S
How did they not mention the 'hack' here?
People should bombard them with DSAR requests.
If you’re in a state that support data subject removal requests, like California, email support@teatheapp.com and say this is a formal DSAR request to remove all of your PII.
They have 45 days to follow through.
This is a nightmare. Some mentally deficient vigilante with delusions of grandeur and a fist full of painkillers would use this as a hit list.
.
Finally i have a way to explain my feeling about this. This is just yelp for people. Yet another attempt to rate people. Didn't Candance owebs try to make something like this years ago but for reporting racists?
Intrusive permissions/data collection/sharing, including location.
viral aka. gossip. some can't get enough
So how this app work? Women take pics of men they see in public then rate them? Can someone explain how this keeps women safe?
I have no personal experience with the app at all, so what I am about to say comes from things I heard, or inferences I've made about the app - but...
I see the merit of an app like this for keeping people safe, but have no idea how it could be used without any possibility of it being abused.
On the face of it all, basically, if a man is abusive or in any way dangerous, or raises "red flags" for women, this app can help other women be aware. Lots of narcissistic assholes come across as lovely people at the start, but by the end are abusive people. My wifes ex husband, is one example, of a psychopathic narcissist. If only we could utilise an app like this to let other women know just who he is, and what to watch out for...
On the other side of it, of course, it's all too easy to say someone is abusive or dangerous to defame or isolate that person. Women have the ability to be just as abusive as men. An abusive woman may use this app to make other women in their community scared of/avoidant of a man who isn't in any way a danger to anyone.
Basically, my understanding of the app is that it allows women to give information about men they know and have dated, so other women can get a sort of background check on said men
But this, of course, could easily be misused and abused.
The app also required photo ID to prove you were a woman using the app, which recently was breached and ALL of the ID that was submitted is now viewable by anyone. So... yeah
More like women can create a profile for men in their lives, and other women can share their experiences with that man. It’s sort of a publicly sourced Burn Book. It was apparently started because the creator’s mom had some bad dating experience, and basically lamented about how there wasn’t a good way for women to share stories about the men they’ve dated. Like “wouldn’t it be nice if women could stick red flags to a dude, to warn his potential partners in the future?”
So if a dude is an abuser, his victims can create a profile for him, where other women can share their experiences too. If a dude cheats, he can be put on blast for other women to see. It’s basically an “is anyone else dating this man” local Facebook group, but much larger and more in-depth.
There are some ethical concerns about it, especially regarding potential abuse; There’s nothing stopping an abusive woman from wrecking her ex’s future dating life by lying about him. But the women using the app basically say that the potential safety in dating outweighs the potential for abuse.
the women using the app basically say that the potential safety in dating outweighs the potential for abuse.
Of course they do, they're getting safety and somebody else is getting abuse.
“wouldn’t it be nice if women could stick red flags to a dude, to warn his potential partners in the future?”
Nope. Personal bias and people change.
Deleted by creator
"What clubs does he go to?" another person asked on a different post. "He’s cute."
Clubs? Are we in the 90ies?
So this is an app that allows mass stalking/harassment. Imagine if men did this to women, the outcry would never end 😂
:(
Some of us
90ies
I can't help but "hear" this as "Ninety eez".
Whoops, native-germansher Verschreiber.
They're surprisingly popular state-side. Especially in big party cities like Miami.
What? What term would be preferable to you?
Gen Z Man Reveals What Really 'Killed Club Culture'
etc., you get the hint.
A study recently linked it to
- affordance (see above)
- better general consciousness for health vs. alcohol
- less tolerance for drunken slipups due to social media
Oh. So, you're saying you don't go to clubs. I thought you might have been saying it's an outdated expression.
Alright then, carry on.
Denial will only hurt you later.
What on Earth are you talking about?
Edit oh, I'm not denying that club culture is dying and more unaffordable, I'm merely glad I wasn't that out of the loop, thought there's a new word for "club"
Maybe denial is the new word for club?
We may not be in, but she may be from.
There is a video in the article, where a a woman says "are we dating the same guy?". Like women don't date multiple men.
Apart form that, things never say secret, soon or later will come out.
Is this what lemmy is about?
Some of the men's comments on here venting about how rough they had it dating really need to listen to women's dating stories more often. The level of violence does not compare.
I don't want you to take me badly, but to me this comment sounded really demeaning. Obviously women have it way worse than men, but you see a comment with a men venting about their personal experiences and the first thing that comes to mind is "women have it worse"?
I could understand this comment in the context of the app, and how people are making fun of it when its purpose is to try to solve such a common and awful problem in dating--but in the context of the comments of men venting here, it really just sounds like you're invalidating their experiences just because they're not women.
and the first thing that comes to mind is “women have it worse”?
Yes, because I've seen it and I had to intervene way more than I ever wanted to. We've had our fair share of violent domestic disputes in the family perpetrated by the men, I've seen it out on the streets, and lately, I'm watching all these videos of stories of women online who feared for their safety.
I've seen women mistreated in public, some being threatened with their lives, I've had family members impregnated against their will, my neighbor was literally choked on the street outside my window, a woman being held at gunpoint by their partner (I was there), and I've found out through gossip that the little girl I used to live with when I was a kid was found dead in a fucking ditch because of an ex. So yeah, I have no pony in this race as a man dating men, and yet I have plenty of reasons to think straight women have it way worse.
sounds like you’re invalidating their experiences
No, I'm comparing the grievances, which are perfectly valid and understandable on their own, but they're completely different in how they weigh on the motivation for creating such an app. Those grievances sound a little weak as an argument for this "flip the genders" crowd.
Like, it really sucks that a woman led you on but ultimately turned you down for someone else and you've spent the last decade mulling over it, but it isn't quite the same as getting a brick thrown through a window a few times as part of a campaign of terror orchestrated by a salty coke-head ex who won't leave you alone and the police seem too eager to keep letting it happen. Which is what happened to my little sister for years. So yeah, kinda different when you factor in the readiness to go violent.
In my comment I said:
I could understand this comment in the context of the app
And the whole reason why I commented was because I'd misunderstood your comment. I'd thought it was separate from the post itself, since you hadn't made it clear that the purpose of your comment was to say something like: "So despite the consequences it might have to the men featured in the app, it should still exist due to the benefit that it would bring to women". Without that, to me, it really just looked like you'd read the stories from the men and thought "women have it worse".
Since I'm now inside the discussion, I'm gonna give you my two cents.
I think that most people here weren't really mad at the app due to its purpose. They were mad because it's far from a perfect solution. Regardless of how much protection the app has, at these issues will exist:
- Leaks can happen
- Women can lie
- Men can infiltrate the app
Not to mention that, in this case, the creator was a man and the information protection was laughably bad.
In the future, apps like this one might become a must for women's self-protection, but that doesn't mean that the app's issues will just cease existing. Pointing them out along with personal experiences to back them up, and then weighing in the pros and cons is always going to be very important.
Might've made myself a bit unclear, here's a tl;dr
I thought you'd meant
This bad situation happened to me
Women have it worse
But what I've realized what you'd meant is
This bad situation happened to me
But that doesn't mean that the app shouldn't exist
And to finish, sorry that that happened to you. I hope you and the people you talked about stay safe.
What I think really needs to happen is we take a Ryder truck full of ANFO to the idea that sex must come from abject strangers found on the internet.
Dating apps are very obviously a failed experiment. If you use one, you deserve everything you get.
I see, thanks for elaborating. And yeah, I'm not talking about the app itself because it's a little iffy given how people are drawn to gossip and revenge, but about the people in the comments giving their personal stories that sound traumatic but, like, not "make an app to avoid your potential killer" levels of traumatic.
Boom, downvoted for being aware that 95% of violent criminals are male and domestic abuse is no different.
Pretty much! I was half expecting it, so all good.
violent assholes make things worse for both men and women. Women for obvious reasons and men because women have to be more wary.
Spoken by someone who has clearly never been emotionally abused by a woman. Not all violence is physical. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".
Spoken by someone who has also been emotionally abused by men, mind you. These women and I have a common subject, and the last one almost turned violent for me.
I could also go on about emotional manipulation by men if you'd like, but that'd be on top of all the violence.
Do they need to?
Yes. Everyone should listen to everyone else. And as a man, I promise you women have it wayyyyyy worse. I definitely won the gender lottery. Sorry ladies and Godspeed.
Clueless.
Women are insanely violent and abusive to men, just not so much physically.
My government issued a report a few years back that estimated male vs female domestic abuse rates to differ in about one order of magnitude.
Also, for every one tragic story about one man's abuse I have about ten more from women.
It's lopsided in both quantity and severity, don't even.
Founded by a man to enable women to redflag men?
What’s your bets the dude secretly hides posts about men he’s friends with etc?
I don't play games with dead horses.
there's gotta be at least one fun game like that
Some salty content here for no reason.
Nobody is writing about you, misogynists of Lemmy, because nobody is dating you.
Two wrongs don't make one right.
There is not and will never be any valid reason to create a hidden database of non-verified, non-authorized and potentially defamatory information about other people.
It's absolutely crazy to assume that anyone who sees the obvious issues with this app is a misogynist
Yes, that's the sane way to deal about it.
How crazy do you have to be to listen to hollywood stories and let strangers into your house.
For what, because you think they're cute ? That's just an easy way to take up with a knife in your back.
Never. Trust. Anyone. Ever.