[Video] Cops not sure whether to arrest man with "Plasticine Action" shirt for supporting terrorism
9mon 3d ago by lemmy.world/u/IndustryStandard in maliciouscompliance from i.imgur.com
This guy got de-arrested
Hopefully everyone will buy these t-shirts just to take the piss
About five minutes later, the arresting officer approached him again. “He said: ‘I’ve got good news and I’ve got bad news.’ I said: ‘What’s the good news?’ He said: ‘I’m de-arresting you.’
“And I said: ‘What’s the bad news?’ He said: ‘It’s going to be really embarrassing for me.’ And then I walked free, while all the real heroes are the people that are actually getting arrested.”
The officer seems to understand his mistake at least
The poor copper lost all that time arresting a guy with Plasticine Action on his t-shirt only to have to de-arrest him when he could've been arresting an old lady with the words "Palestine Action" written down on a piece of paper for her to be prosecuted and maybe even get a jail sentence.
That mistake was making it hard for him to make his quota of arrests for that week, the poor bloke.
This is why I always imagine it'd be funny to ask a cop "so how many murders got solved this week?" whenever they're wasting time on mundane shit.
I've never had an interaction with a cop where they didn't make it unnecessarily intense.
Their job is not to solve crimes, their job is to get people convicted, the subtle difference being that they'll turn non-crimes into crimes (for example, they'll chose to legally interpret things which can go both ways as crimes which require prosecution, which is why one often sees kids criminalized for childish bullshit) and it doesn't matter if the person convicted is innocent, all that matters is that somebody got convicted (so, for example, they won't try and find exonerating evidence).
This partly explains their tendency to take an adversarial posture towards people who aren't from their group, also partly explained because that posture itself indirectly feeds back on them (people are weary of them because of how act towards the general public, which in turn makes them feel apart and suspicious hence they behave even more so) and partly because they do tend to get exposed far more than most people to the seedy side of humanity all with a judgemental mindset and an aim to see crimes, so even a lot of the stuff they see which most people think is just silly fun (say, most drunkenness), they'll see as crimes.
This is the UK. They don't have arrest quotas. That was a myth spread by the tabloids about 15 years ago.
Police solve something like less than 2% of reported crimes.
Even a libertarian can see this is fucking stupid, imagine a restaurant that gets 2% of its orders correct and served in a timely manner.
Police do not primarily exist to solve crimes.
They primarily exist as a goon/thug class to protect property and capital, all other behaviors and effects are ancillary.
If Police wanted to actually lessen crime, they'd either attack its root causes and use significant parts of their budgets to fund affordable housing and public schools, or massively reorient toward pursuing white collar crime, which is often of such a huge financial scale that it basically directly impoverishes society at a large scale.
That figure is a little misleading, but I understand how you picked it up because it’s everywhere.
Police “clear” crimes to be progressed for prosecution.
Prosecutors “prosecute” crimes. It’s this that the 2% figure is aimed at. The clearance rates (the job done by the police) is higher.
According to this article[1], 22% of reported serious crimes led to arrests. 4% (of reported serious crimes) led to convictions. They then halve both of those numbers to account for unreported crimes. The article still uses the 2% figure in the headline despite the nuance in the article.
That might sound academic given the overall point you make still stands. I just thought it was worth mentioning.
1: https://theconversation.com/police-solve-just-2-of-all-major-crimes-143878
Ok then, so more technically, and more generously to police from a purely reactionary perspective of 'they can only respond to reports'... they do an adequate job of clearing 4% of what actually gets reported to them.
I know that cops dont actually prosecute, I made that post before falling asleep, I was a bit loose with language.
Their role in the prosecution process is basically to be witnesses, to gather evidence for the trial.
And, unless I am misunderstanding this... ~82% of the arrests they do actually make ... don't result in convictions, and are thus 'overarrests' in some sense... as ... you went to all the effort to make an arrest, and it turns out that no actual crime was committed?
Cops have an ~18% chance of making an arrest for a serious crime that actually sticks?
They have an ~82% likelihood that they are overpolicing, like by definition, when it comes to serious crimes?
Apologies if I sounded like I was lecturing there. I got very into the numbers.
I see the 82% figure you mention too. But I feel out of my depth now. An arrest requires probable cause (a low threshold), whereas courts require reasonable doubt (a high threshold). The gap between these two seems to be what should let police work function. Eg: attorneys examine or challenge the charges, plea deals, case dismissal / acquittal etc. But I’m skimming articles I don’t understand at this point.
82% does seem high to me too. But I also see too many cut-and-dry cases on TV. I don’t know what to think.
No worries about seeming to lecture me, you were more correct and precise, I was sloppy, any other person reading this convo would be well served by the precision and context.
So thus I will now nitpick you: 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.
Hehe.
I definitely concur that basically all cop oriented or cop centric media is set up to make almost all cops and such look like extremely well intentioned and competent people, when factually, most cops are simply of average intelligence, and are uh, kind of well known for things like abusing their partners, being right wing authoritarians, also doing overtime fraud.
I would be curious to see if other countries have a substantially different arrest to conviction ratio.
I know that many other countries spend far less money on policing, have far lower rates of incarceration, and some even require something akin to, or an actual law degree of some kind before they can actually be various grades of police officer.
Further, obviously, almost all other country's police are significantly less highly armed, and the US is just rife with absolute bullshit practices being promoted as legitimate training and procedures... we still widely use 'lie detectors' that simply measure stress, and often give false positives snd false negatives, we have nonsensical 'body language expert' shit everywhere... and just generally, the police are taught that the general populace is basically an enemy combatant force, ala how we approached policing in the Iraq occupation... because a lot of the people and materiel from Iraq War 2 just got recycled into local Police Departments.
EDIT:
Oh right, and then now ICE just is the Gestapo, and has more funding than the Marine Corp.
Also the NYPD currently has more funding than the entire military of Norway, or Vietnam, or Mexico.
(not combined, but singly)
It would be the 30th largest military in the world by funding, if you threw it up there.
ICE, alone, would be uh... abouth the 18th, as large as the entire defense budget of the Netherlands.(tied for 18th), somewhat less than the entire defense budget of Israel (17th), a bit more than the entire defense budget of Brazil (19th)... if you go by per annum allocations.
Counter-nitpick accepted 😄
If you’re in the US, yes, you’re famed for all the policing issues you mentioned. I can only go off of conversations with my friends dotted around the EU but the perception we have is that police here are different because of circumstances rather than innate qualities. They’re generally not armed, they’re slightly better educated and at least on paper, there are institutions providing oversight.
But the same problems exist here to one degree or another, especially racism. But also excessive force, using their position as an officer to protect themselves from accountability around issues including domestic violence … and while lie detectors are rarely used they are starting to use AI at border control to detect if people might be lying: https://peopleofcolorintech.com/articles/ai-lie-detectors-at-borders-who-does-the-eus-ai-act-actually-protect/
So I don’t know how we really compare. I see some crazy videos from the USA of people’s interactions with police. It seems like another world completely compared to here in Ireland. And ICE seem like domestic terrorists rather than law enforcement.
But we also have institutional corruption so bad that the force tried to frame a whistleblower (Maurice McCabe) for child abuse. The most senior people were replaced with someone who wasn’t Irish (Drew Harris), essentially given the job of draining the swamp / reforming the institution.
I think I generally agree with everything you've said, yes I am from/in the US, I also have had many EU internet friends over the years... yeah, policing problems exist everywhere, but they're a lot worse here tham the EU generally.
We have the highest per capita incarceration rates in the world, of any large, developed country.
We imprison more of our population than commonly referenced authoritarian states like Russia and China.
We have more total prisoners than Stalin had in labor camp gulags at the height of the gulag system, we have more people incarcerated than China does, and their population is roughly 4x larger than ours.
We treat way, way too many problems as crimes to be jailed or imprisoned for, not social problems to be solved at the root cause, and we have a neat little carve out in our Constitution that explicitly allows slavery, forced labor, for imprisoned people... we have a massive industry of private, for profit prisons, that exploits this slave labor.
Oh and also police are nearly never actually prosecuted, convicted, or sent to prison, we only very recently even began to attempt to have meaningful data on much of that... cops are literally above the law in a wide range of scenarios, allowed to violate their own rules routinely, you have to really, really fuck up hard as a cop to actually be convicted...
And then going to prison, as a cop, is often a death sentence... because the other prsioners fucking hate cops.
Even if you are not a cop, basically you should just expect to be raped in prison, thats how common it is, everyone acts like this is a funny joke though.
And all those figures and facts were true for years, decades, long before Trump and MAGA just went full fascist, and decided to bring back WW2 style internment camps, but for undocumented migrants, and the homeless.
We've already got disease outbreaks running through these concentration camps, which are largely being blacked out of the media, I will be entirely unsurprised if we just progress as the Nazis did to 'work till you die' camps and outright death camps, in just a few years time.
Shit's really bad over here.
I didn’t realise how high the prison population numbers are. I first became aware of the issue when System of a Down released “Prison song”.
Those numbers you shared are really abhorrent, and explains why my lawyer acquaintance finds the prison system there shocking (he visited the US a few times). He absolutely would not want to see something “so inhumane” here.
I wonder how to interpret the 82% non-conviction in the context of over-conviction.
We have people in prison that are as much victims of poverty and undiagnosed problems like ADHD / autism. So if we have people imprisoned who would be better served (including society) elsewhere, I can imagine it’s pretty bad there in the U.S. Ifs a genuine tragedy, but an injustice against human rights too.
System of a Down?
Here's my attempt at an inverse:
Rammstein: Amerika (it's wunderbar!)
Yeah, I'm sick of us too.
We are a third world country in a gucci belt, we are basically a failed state at this point.
Oh hey! David Bowie: I'm afraid of Americans.
Me too Dave, me too. RIP.
I know (and like) the David Bowie one partly for that line. Thanks for the Rammstein recommendation, I hadn't heard it. It feels apt for Europe, which seems increasingly Americanised.
When I was growing up there was a song called "In American" by British band Red Box. But looking back, I think it's hypocritical to criticise America if we don't also acknowledge our own comparable problems here. We're not dealing with the same scale of predators you have there because - at least in Ireland - there was less for the ambitious and power-craving individuals to aspire to. Those people usually left for America for that reason, where they could be their unbridled, exploitative selves and make more money than they ever would have here.
So I don't see Americans as the problem, but the systems and the difficulty in changing them. Many problematic people have simply been exposed to unimaginable amounts of disinformation and cults. It's a difficult problem but if anyone can overcome it I think you can.
There are more decent people in the USA than the news cycle and online grift-fluencers make it seem.
I think we're all the same. I despair too, but each population grows up in its own Petri dish. Depending on what attention your resources have attracted and how corrupt the news cycle is, different traits will be evoked in society. So while it's bad, and seemingly getting worse, I have a bit more hope in people wherever they're from.
I feel for you. I'm not even based in the USA and I find it impossible to avoid US news of the latest political vulgarity. So I follow the good people who lift my heart - whether that's Project Pink!, Mumdani in NY or anybody who gives me hope. We can't let the despair get us, because that's the real war that's going on here. Once we let despair reign inside us, they've won. Keep the faith!
Funny you say that about the Irish that migrated here...
I'm aporoximately half Italian by heritage, and from what I know of my own family, and uh, general Italian American culture... uh fucking yeah, yep, same thing lol!
Where we differ is that... yeah, to a great extent, we are a bit uniquely fucked by our systems...
But I spent the better part of two decades getting a Poli Sci and an Econ degree, being involved at tons of ground level political stuff...
... and almost nobody fucking cared, back during Obama, back when we actually had a realistic shot and altering the institutional inertia of those systems.
We could not reform the electoral college, which doomed us to the Imperial Presidency.
We did not repeal the PATRIOT ACT, now everyone who thinks wrong is a terrorist sympathizer.
We did not countermand Citizens United, now our government is wholly corrupt, bought and paid for by corporations and their boards of directors.
We did not implement a ranked choice voting paradigm that would have made it much, much harder for the Republicans to keep their power, to keep gerrymandering and rigging out voting systems.
That was it, the Obama years, historically speaking, that was our shot!
And we missed it.
I told everyone I knew that what is happening right now was a very likely outcome if we didn't achieve those things at that time.
And almost everyone I knew called me paranoid, delusional, hysterical.
... So no, the problem is Americans.
We are too high on our own supply, we've been huffing our own farts for so long that we just assumed we were immune to the broader forces of history.
We still barely even manage to get half the population to vote, for the President, and local and State level election turnout numbers are way worse.
We don't care, it isn't cool to care.
De Tocqueville rather importantly notes that a well informed and educated, and politically engaged populace is required for democracy to work.
What he saw in America was a kind of practical communalism, everyone knows and interacts with and is willing to coordinate with their neighbors and their town... thats how he described our fledgling republic.
But we abstracted that all away, got lost in our own propoganda amd gadgets and doodads, and now its all blowing up in our faces.
Trump is a symptom of a deeply anti-intellectual and religious fundamentalist streak that consistently runs through our history, and no one ever really bothered to do anything systemic about this, even though its implications are obvious.
Don't get me wrong, our systems are fucked, but we had so many chances to do... anything else, anything other than neoliberal phantasmagoria as a political ethos... we had so many people, and stories, and signs, and artists! all pointing out our own hypocrisy... and we basically just sung along and pantomimed being rebels that could change the system, as corporate America just turned that into another marketable demographic, and very very few 'hippies' and 'rebels' and 'punks' realized that is what happened.
Sorry, I losing focus, starting to fall asleep, but basically uh... no we Americans fucking suck, trust me, I probably know more of them than you, haha!
EDIT: Oh right, I'll have to check out Red Box, cam't say I've heard of them!
I can't argue with anything you've said. Indoctrination is very hard to break out of, and it starts at a young age in the USA (if the people I followed when I was on TikTok are accurate). Singing the anthem at school, hanging the flag (we never saw flags at school here until St. Patrick's Day), being told USA is the greatest and that other countries want to be like the USA, that it's the land of the free ... all indoctrination. I'd go as far as to call it brainwashing.
We're fragile creatures (Fragile, by Sting, since we have a musical theme going!). It's hard to contend with such an onslaught. I don't blame people for that. I'm curious, what did it for you? How did you begin to see the wood from the trees?
I came from a highly patriotic, religious fundamentalist family.
Unfortunately for them... I am also very inquisitive, very curious, pretty autistic, and very good at analysis.
The cracks were subtle at first... but they could not be ignored... the more I took it upon myself to learn... the worse it got, in terms of upholding the false reality.
I couldn't pinpoint an exact thing or moment.
Maybe it really was watching the Matrix... a barely describable unease, sense that something... is wrong... a splinter, in my mind, driving me mad.
I was talking, with people from all around the world, in realtime, in the early 2000s, taught myself how to code, read voraciously, did well in school, got those two degrees... at the same time, just had to do either one or two extra summer quarters to finish in 4 years, went to work in corpo america, bounced off of its bullshit rather rapidly, went to non profits, to be able to use my skillset but not feel morally disgusted with myself.
I do remember one thing... walking to work one day.
A lump, of blankets, in the alley near the downtown corporate hq i worked at.
... huh.
Work.
Lunch.
Time enough for a bit of a walk.
Pass by that same alley.
The lump is gone. In its place, there is a ... stain.
And there are city workers, with flamethrowers, burning it away.
Sterilizing it.
Because it was the remnants of a decaying, human corpse.
I think it may have been that moment that I realized our society does not give one fuck for the poor and homeless... and that at that point in time... my job was ultimately to facilitate the grander processes that led to that person's likely avoidable death.
The ‘tism can be a great asset for seeing through BS, along with education.
Which is why the Republicans intentionally misunderstand, infantilize and demonize the first, and destroy the latter.
We are down to about an 85% literacy rate now.
Average American reads at a 6th grade level, less than 5% can actually do critical analysis, compare and contrast different news stories covering the same event/story.
22% of reported serious crimes led to arrests. 4% (of reported serious crimes) led to convictions
So what I'm reading is that police are wrong or bad at what they do 82% most of the time.
78%, but yes
Pickering has made copies of the T-shirt, which he is selling through his own website to raise money for the charity Medical Aid for Palestinians. It has sold in 28 countries already.
Start a glassware company called Pal-3 Steins, sell merch for your new sale: Free Pal-3 Steins!
I reckon the T-Shirts need some artwork as well to reduce confusion. Maybe some 1980s Plasticine Claymation TV show characters like Gumby and Pokey.
No. It's supposed to cause confusion. It's supposed to allow people to legally skirt the law.
Pardon my ignorance, but is wearing a shirt with the word Palestine on it and arrestable offense in England?
Palestine Action yes. An activism organization called Palestine Action was classified as a terrorist organization a few weeks ago by the UK government.
Y'all seem to have a lot going on across the pond, what with "who's a terrorist," or "is this dystopian?"
Have y'all considered electing a terrorist leader so that you instantly know the answers to those questions?
Ah yes, the accelerationist approach. Fight fire with fire, etc. Let's see how it pans out!
Ah, thanks for the explanation
Some people of Palestine Action threw ink on a military plane parked on some airbase which is normally used for the surveillance flights of Gaza that the UK is doing to give the data to Israel, hence they were officially classified by the Home Secretary - Yvette Cooper - as "terrorist group" via a process which has no strict well defined criteria or Judicial oversight at all.
Because of that anybody who supports them in any way (including merelly voicing their support for them or holding a written paper with the name of the group) risks a prison sentence of (if I remember it correctly) up to 10 years.
Hence in the UK wearing a t-shirt with the words "Palestine Action" in it is a terrorist offense with a prision sentense of up to 10 years: it's all pretty similar to the legislation Putin has to stop people in Russia demonstrating against the invasion of Ukraine, only I believe the prison sentences in Russia are actually lower.
(Britain isn't quite at the "hold up blank piece of paper" stage like Russia yet, but judging by the copper arresting somebody wearing a "Plasticine Action" t-shirt, the police are already thinking along similar lines - the coppers in Britain are well aware that their job is to "serve the powerful" not "serve the public")
Britain is a complete total authoritarian clown shown nowadays, though this shit is a pretty natural stage in the evolution of authoritarianism and represssion masquerading as Rule Of Law over there since around Tony Blair's time.
so weird how we've mangled the word terrorism around to mean impeding a military machine or body. maybe this is just my brain turning to worm food but I could have swore it was explicitly when you kill civilians or destroy infrastructure in order to coerce a policy change. but that alteration probably wasn't intentional or for any specific purpose.
25 years ago, the day I stopped watching TV news- the dramatic talking head told me that terrorists had attacked a US military base in Afganistan.
oof. yeah. I don't like pointing at 9/11 and desert storm as the time when it changed but it REALLY seems like that was when it changed. I was 9 and got in a lot of trouble for not saying the pledge of allegiance and even though I was way to young to have a real opinion bback then you really can't fault anyone for coming to the conclusion that we might be the fucking baddies
That was when I first noticed that word being abused so egregiously. I wouldn’t be surprised if it started before that.
It definitely started before then, but that's probably when they realized they aren't getting any push back from using it and can use it to slander anyone they want.
I know in Star Trek DS9 ('93-99) there's a part that's talking about the native people resisting the authoritarian faction taking over. It talks about how terrorism can be good if it's used to do good. I don't recall if it uses the word specifically, but I think it does, so by that time it had become obvious enough that it was being abused for the writers of DS9 to talk about it.
Yeah, that was the inflexion point.
Back then, people were cautioning against this lingusitic slight of hand, this overuse of rhetorically charged language... because they could lead to a world where 'everything i dont like is a terrorist'.
But they weren't listened to, PATRIOT ACT passed, and we now live in the world we were told we would, but even worse actually, because the internet is forever and the NSA has been doing its damndest to make a permanent hard backup of all internet traffic at its mega data center in Utah for over a decade.
Ironically what this means is that Osama Bin Laden won.
He goaded us into destroying ourselves, and we did, we went insane.
The 'Great Satan' is doing just a bangup job of carrying out the NeoCon plan for an American Century, what with electing an incompetent idiot rapist who has basically single handedly caused the second Great Depression, and caused us to lose almost all of our international allies.
we might be the fucking baddies
It depends. Is it relative? Even then, sometimes we are and sometimes we aren't.
There aren't many nations that have their hands clean.
Again with the same dum dum "all countries are bad, it's the same as invading a people half way across the globe and trying to wipe them out" talking point when all other arguments don't hold up.
By an amazing coincidence over-broad legislation made on top of a legally undefined word ended up used against things and groups which weren't at all the claimed targets of that legislation.
This was also totally unexpected and nobody could ever had foreseen how they could be leveraged for such uses when those laws were first drafted and approved.
Hopscotching backward time and time again into fascism because we laser focused on bad words and not the actual languages of power.
at least it looks like the guy in the video got off the hook by simply swapping a word around so there's that. kind of funny in the context of what you said
The War on [undefined]
Yeah it's supposed to be the use of violence to spread fear, usually for some political aim. I guess we're counting "violence" against property now too 🙄
And specifically on civilian targets
Eh. 100 years ago, "terrorism" meant "assassinating royalty".
did it actually? that is interesting.
ohhhh because it was coined during the French revolution. I should have guessed
Eh, terrorism has always been a bullshit term. You just didn't notice it. Governments perform "terrorism" all the fucking time, but they get to call it something else. Terrorism is just when you do something the state doesn't like. Often it's violent, and the term is used to maintain the state's monopoly on violence, but it isn't always. They've been allowed to influence public opinion using the term for far too long.
(Just in case, this comment is not condoning violence, only stating that the term terrorism is purposefully used by the state to turn people against specific groups.)
They graffitied two planes in protest against England's support of Israel's genocide, which makes them evil dangerous terrorists!
Not that I'd support them of course, I'm no terrorist - I fully support whatever genocides my country wants to participate in please do not gulag me Kid Starver oh no he's in the hou
A yes "the terrorist organization" label to censor anything they don't agree. Don't forget they're trying to classify drug cartels/gangs as "terrorist organizations" too as excuses to invade other countries, specially in the global south.
Pretty sure that's Scotland, not England (Glasgow to be specific). But yeah, the British government decided carrying a Palestine Action sign was basically terrorism.
It is now!
But it doesn't even say that.
I'm aware. He was being harassed for something similar which was why I asked
I've got a friend trying to move from the United States to England to escape our current shit show, and I've been telling him that England tends to do what America does, just with a posh accent to give it an air of legitimacy.
If you think they do it with a posh accent you've not been to England lol
I'm mainly thinking of Tony Blair making the same case for invading Iraq that George W. Bush was, just with the accent.
I'm mainly thinking of marshmallows.
in US english posh is a synonym for british
/s (½)
That doesn't scan. Posh Spice would by association be British Spice, and everyone knows that doesn't exist
What Americans think of as a British accent is an accent that does in fact not exist. Literally no one speaks like that, it's just playing into the stereotype at this point.
But we can't make movies with genuine accents because Americans wouldn't be able to understand it.
Nowhere is truly safe at this point. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
I'm currently working out moving to Jamaica. Got a friend there to help, but he says it ain't all sunshine and cheap pot like the movies.
I'm not LGBT but I usually use that as a guideline of "is this a good place to be?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Jamaica
And its not looking great.
Pick somewhere else.
Super simple and smart way to sort places that care about human rights. Thanks for sharing.
At a certain time (around 2000) I'd count the number of women/men outside (like 20 to 40 year olds), very telling about the insecurity in a city.
Didn't /u/flyingsquid move to England? He hasn't posted in 6 months :o
Yeah, he moved into the badlands near Manchester. Ever seen the movie "The hills have eyes"? Its like that up there.
Oooh, like Hollywood?
Oh, as not great as they are, they aren't even close to being as bad as US.
You're both selling them short. The UK is awful in ways that the Americans can only aspire to. They are each doing their own horrible things, just trading a bit of horrible culture now and then.
The UK is awful in ways that the Americans can only aspire to
Which ones are those? I struggle to come up with something that US is doing better than the UK. The whole freedom of speech issue might be the one where at least it's not that obvious, but I would argue UK is just more upfront about it, and even though more topics are explicitly forbidden in the UK, you wouldn't be dissapeared from the streets by an unmarked van about it, so I would say it's still better.
Well until quite recently, the UK was quite famously blazing the trail towards isolationism by shooting themselves in the foot with Brexit. The political gong show that followed was, I'm sure, absolutely humiliating. Surveillance culture in the UK is way, way ahead of almost any other Western democracy. I admit it's harder to find things in the last few years that the UK is worse at, but examples still exist.
Whatever isolationism brexit highlighted, can't be worse than whatever US is doing right now.
You clearly haven't been paying attention. Both have a ton of issues. You could argue either is worse, but I don't think anyone watching would say they aren't on similar paths. The UK in particular has a lot of holdover issues from never fully reforming their government and only slowly transforming from monarchy to constitutional Republic, and still carrying all the baggage, like the house of lords for example.
Both have a ton of issues
Not arguing with that. I'm struggling to find something that is worse in the UK than in US right now, that's it, I'm comparing the two countries right now. Whatever holdover issues UK has, US has it worse as far as I can see.
Are you seeing it as some kind of race where you're winning and I'm losing? What should I cope with?
I think he is saying they are following the same path, just a few steps behind. So if the US is running over a cliff, the UK will probably consider that a blazed trail and head in that direction too.
So yeah, the US sped up. Doesn't mean the UK isn't trying to follow.
Modern history, maybe not, but historically, the British Empire was the worst.
Historically no one was strictly speaking good.
Yes, sexual harassment is a crime.
Fancy arresting people for committing a crime. What an insane state of affairs we live in, next thing you'll tell me we're not allowed to murder people
It's sexual harassment you idiot
Tragic take.
They've got better Healthcare (for now). Other than that, yeah I don't think they're doing much better. In a lot of ways they're worse. It could be argued either way which is worse, depending on your opinions on a few things.
eh, we've got pubs and chips.
oh also went back to the States last week and was appalled that a pint can cost upwards of $10 when a decade ago it was only $6 (London prices have stayed around £6-7). throw on the whole tip racketeering insanity and I'd much rather be in England.
At this point, leaving England for America is the saner choice...
I mean unless you're brown, then ICE will just lock you away if you try
I don't know, we locked up an extremely white new Zealander for 3 weeks at the border recently...
And several white Canadians. There are likely dozens more locked in captivity that the media hasn’t reported on.
And don’t forget when the US coast card kidnapped a Canadian fisherman from Canadian waters and then jailed him in the US.
They drove across the border to arrest a Quebec fisherman and then sunk his boat and kidnapped him and detained him. Americans are terrorists.
Nah. It's not great here but that's like leaving the frying pan and jumping into a volcano that's actively erupting. ICE aren't just racist, they get off on hurting people and they're really not bothered who they are.
In some ways they're very progressive. They abduct and abuse everyone equally.
In some ways they’re very progressive. They abduct and abuse everyone equally.
💀
It’s already working. Due to the terrorism claims, each of these arrests requires a special review, and the system is being overwhelmed. Get a few more hundred or thousands of people to get an arrest for this, and the whole government scheme will have to be abandoned, because there will be no practical way for system to follow the required procedures for each case.
Fascists get pretty clever at solving that problem. They create these camps where they can just concentrate them in one place.
The British invented them in fact!!
It can't be any worse than Butlins
Oooh they should come up with a clever name for them... Focus Groups? Nah that doesn't quite work.
See how that worked out for USA, when push came to shove - the law was abandoned.
Yes, and that will be an important lesson to people. Then we can move to the next step to topple the capitalists.
laughs in American prison system
There isn't enough prison places in the UK. They'd have to let actual criminals out early so they can arrest a grandmother. I don't think even they are insane enough to actually do that the media would eat them alive.
laughs harder in American prison industrial complex
so then they declare martial law
and then the mask is off
Every city has had the capacity to bus a few thousand people to a holding facility since at least the 2000s
You have the right to free speech...as long as... you're not dumb enough to actually try it.
Can't waste a day when the night brings a hearse
So make a move and plead the fifth 'cause ya can't plead the first
I'm giving hope by the fact that the police clearly don't know what to do with the situation. So they're not automatically arresting everyone in the street for disagreeing with them. Probably because they realise they get lynched if they tried that
Not fans of claymation, I guess.
We need the Pingu version of V for Vendetta.
Noot noot!
I swear to god Pingo used to speak English. I have very clear memories of episodes with dialogue. I think I may have somehow transferred from another universe at some point.
In what other profession are you allowed to just stand there in public with a constant hand on someone?
Who is Donald Trump on Jeffrey Epstein’s island, Alex.
I take offense at the unwanted contact.
If I were to do this to someone, they would have me arrested for it in addition to restraining them. Therefore fuck these pigs. Why are they above that?
For the US it is Supreme court precedent. If they suspect you're committing a crime they can detain you while they investigate. If you give resistance to the detainment they can use force as long as it fits within their use of force policy and is reasonable with respect to the totality of circumstances. That's the simple version. The UK likely has its own version of this.
Fuck their policy and fuck their vision of 'reasonable.' All cops oughta drop fucking dead at this point considering everything we've seen.
All Cats Are Beautiful
Pal,It'sTime for Action
Oh sorry didn't see you there officer, I was just saying its time for my #sick dance 🕺 moves, is dancing a crime, officer? 😏
To be fair, the (good) British cops are by far not as likely to assault an innocent person as many others. But they do love to stop you and have a chat if even the tiniest thing stands out. I once walked around London, 15 years old, with toy handcuffs on one wrist. Cop came up to me and wanted to know the whole story, like one of those super-chatty people. Where are you from, how old, name, where are the cuffs from, why am I wearing them right now at this moment, ...
He seemed happy with the answers, and we both moved on.
Well, it's still a bother, especially when you are not free to walk away at any moment.
If the toy looked like the real thing, You are 15, an underage with handcuffs, for all he know someone was trying to keep you captive and you manage to get out or you plan to cause damage and handdcuff someone. Good for him to make sure no one actually was hurting you..
Yeah before anybody spoke I was fairly clued in that this was not America by the fact that the cops were just standing there acting chill instead of holding him on the ground and screaming at him to stop resisting arrest.
It also helps that it's in public and they are being filmed.
George Floyd's execution was filmed in public. As were several other murders by police. In America, the cops don't care. They will choke or shoot someone and no judge will ever let them be prosecuted for it.
Palestinian Faction is still allowed, no?
Would have also taken Pleistocene reaction.
Palpitating Infarction
British authorities: you not only have to decide that approximations of a representation of an outlawed group are illegal, which is shaky ground at best, but you would also have to decide that open support of a group that is guilty only of vandalism of military assets is also illegal. To do so, without encroaching on the fucking Magna Carta, which y’all invented, would require an assertion that direct action on behalf of a subset of members of the group disallows the freedom of expression to support the group writ large.
UPDATE: apparently the Magna Carta had to deal with power dynamics between the crown and various lords but was symbolic in that it reduced the power of the crown in its formerly dictatorial approach.
Apparently censorship is a complex ass topic in English history and has undergone continuous stepwise changes over the centuries, in areas as diverse as theatrical plays, print media, and speakers corners in Hyde park.
Y’all still be a bunch of bitches when it comes to freedom of expression though. The country of Orwell my hairy ass.
Someone should make a TMHT shirt with "Plastron Action" on it.
I won't, 'cause I don't live in the UK.
Haha, I’d almost forgotten the government made them rename it Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles, including the theme song.
Oh God, tell me that's not real. That can't be a real thing.
Yep, and also Enter The Dragon on VHS had the nunchucks bit edited out because they thought kids would make their own out of sticks and a rope. Of course, we absolutely did that anyway.
Are you sure it's the T Shirt and not those socks they're arresting him for...?
Picture yourself in a train in a station
With Palestine porters with looking glass ties
..Palestine flags with Red Black White and Green Towering over your head
Look for the girl in Israeli custody And she’s gone..
Great Getting Beaten in Prison
It's not just the two we see - they are apparently in radio contact with additional tax fraudsters / wasters, probably of higher rank or even with a law degree.
Never let them tell they need more funds. Could defund plenty without affecting any actual service one bit.
I mean at least they are actually discussing if this is arrestable, in the USA, cops would just shoot you.
Anyone else clueless as I am? I'm not in a position to turn on sound if there is any
They aren't saying anything, but here's the context. The UK criminalized pro-Palestinian slogans in public a pro-Palestinian rights group called Palestine Action. They use several slogans, most notably the "Support Palestine Action" slogan. They recently arrested a bunch of people for peacefully protesting with this group.
This guy has a shirt that says "Support Plasticene Action" which, notably, does not reference Palestine at all though the words have an aesthetic similarity to the Palestine slogan. So the pigs are trying to see if they can arrest him for hate speech fucking terrorism (wow) or not.
Edit: got some important facts wrong, so corrected
This is close, but it is specifically in regards to a group called Palestinian Action, not Palestine or Palestinian people in general. The British government declared the group Palestine Action a terrorist group, and there is a preexisting law from 2000 which makes it illegal to support 'terrorist groups'.
Of course the whole thing is ridiculous (Palestinian Action has never even hurt anyone), and many people have been publicly supporting Palestinian Action in protest. Over 500 people were arrested at a protest on the 10th.
How is supporting a victim of war crimes 'hate speech'?
Not hate speech. Terrorism. Punishable by up to 14 years in prison.
How is showing sympathy to victims of genocide considered terrorism?
Because the world has totally gone to shit.
Technically it isn't. You can support victims of genocides as much as you like you just can't do it while associating yourself with a particular organisation.
Not that that makes it much better.
It's all going to the High Court, which is almost certainly going to deem this to be illegal and the arrests expunged. It's just in the meantime the idiots have got over excited and think they've won and are doing stuff like this.
Because Fascists don't care about truth or reason
I'm sorry, I just see a bunch of people standing around.
They are holding his arm, so he is at least detained.
I didn't see that. I was busy looking at his shirt because I didn't even know what it meant.
What's going on with the guy with a plaid shirt and baseball cap?
Could be a friend or a member of the public joining to observe, get contact info, identify where the guy would be taken, coordinate jail support, etc...
Idk if that's a thing in the UK tho.
Could just as well be malicious. Can't know without further evidence.
Might be undercover.
Jus chillin'
Why not just get a load of stickers and slap em on every car bus etc flood the streets
Because that would actually give them something to arrest you for. You can't just put stickers on other people's property, that actually is illegal.
combining words of the pleistocene and Palestine.
Scot Squad in action
Why do these deep-fried rectums need to be in quasi-military garb and high-visibility vests?
I'm all for saying fuck the police, but what are you talking about with quasi-military garb and why are you bashing them for wearing high-vis vests?
These look like the worst equipped cops I've ever seen. I'm from the USA and I've seen Italian Police look harder than these guys, they at least had cars and sub-machine guns. These guys have boots, handcuffs, pepper spray, a fucking belt mounted medkit, a collapsible billy club, a baseball cap, cheap-ass-commercial-laundry-uniform-contract cargo pants, a black t-shirt, and a stab vest. The pigs don't even have guns and they are wearing "please-don't-run-me-over" safety vests.
The guys on the street have the right reaction, there's obviously no threat here.
Dude, the Carabinieri are fucking SCARY. I’d rather face a US state trooper and a Canadian Mountie at the same time.
I’d definitely rather deal with Carabinieri, they’re usually just twenty-something year olds from anywhere in the country doing a little military service and that give varying degrees of a shit. Maybe not at airports and landmarks. American cops are jumpy and hyper aggressive always. You can get that from the Carabinieri but it’s half-hearted, not baked in to their identity.
That's a British police uniform, standard issue.
Looks a bit like Brighton?
All black with a high visibility vest, arresting people for words. Nice country.
Israel would never allow us to wear that in Australia