New rules in MoG lmao
8mon 3d ago by lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/hemko in yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com from lemmy.dbzer0.com
There was another post about goat banning every m@te they saw. They're kinda salty about being featured on yptb.
Very salty we called out their love of fascists on their community, and swears db0 is the evil group for proving it.
Apparently just being from db0 is now against the rules at MoG? TankieJerk thinks you're a fascist now too. I don't always agree with what you say but you're far from being a fascist. Huge yikes from the mods of both communities.
Thank you, I appreciate that fact at least. I don't expect everyone to always agree with me, not even my best friends and family. I am a deeply flawed human, I'll be the first to tell anyone that.
But its just odd that we're both fascists and tankies and anything else because we wanted Harris to win by calling out Trump, saying she'll stop funding Israel, promote popular polices, etc.
Or we're fascists for saying China is not a holy state. Or that murder is bad no matter which side does it.
The reasons why we're fascist-tankies is new each time.
When I first read there, I was also deeply offended. I now see how liberal ideas are deeply rooted in fascist thinking and now liberals are quicker to allow fascist ideology than try to get a different perspective. It's not our fault we've been abused, but healing that is our responsibility.
Goat is a trash mod and really should be blocked by everybody so they can exist in their own lemmy echo chamber that they desire.
I mean the genocide denial and apologia wasn't enough?
And then he said db0 was infested with tankies because we said that the UN and Amnesty International don't call the Uyghur people being mistreated a genocide. We used the official terms used by official agencies, and that meant we deny genocide.
When we agreed the Uyghurs were being mismanaged, but it wasn't genocide because has serious implications and must be called as such when it happens (See: Palestinian, Armenian, Ukrainian), we're somehow denying it, when international organizations don't call it one.
I mean, the tankies aren't denying widespread famine or the mismanagement of Tienamin square, or reasonable criticism of Putin either. We do all have a hard time accepting even our own evidence that our own governments heavily propagandize us. Hearty disagreement may be healthy and productive, but plenty of listening and examining all available supporting and critical evidence, with plenty of time taken to consider and reconsider while asking thoughtful questions, perhaps before asking them would do us all good.
Stop whitewashing tankies.
I mean many of them do?
And many libs are fascist ideology apologists. Dialogue like I mentioned elsewhere itt seems to be a cure no one is willing to take, because the psychological ivermectin is more palatable.
So you lied?
š jungian shadow work works if one wasn't so fragile.
?
What does that have to do with this? I mean you lied about tankies. I don't know why I bother. Marxist leninism is a cult
I've never seen a single one who does
you are literally one of them
Are ok, so you're just ignoring what people actually believe and assigning made up positions to them that make it easier for you to hate them.
Most definitely. That's how I first encountered that clown, and it only got worse from there.
The drama may be entertaining but it doesn't bring out the best in anyone. I get it, though, I've been there. I'm trying to raise my browline just a little.
to quote josh johnson: art can save your life, entertainment WILL kill you
Gotta love Lemmy drama
I hope this is the drama that gets people to realize you're a troll and a tankie sympathizer.
If you feel like have to hide your beleifs and abuse your small amount of power to forward those beliefs then your ideology isn't valid ffs
Yeah mate, I'm a "tankie sympathizer" who made an instance with an explicit anti-tankie rule. I'm playing 4d chess. Fuck outa here.
This drama mostly shows that goat doesn't apply their own principles
Tankies never venture into this community, despite this being a place where they can freely discuss their viewpoints.
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/21062682
How is it supposed to be possible when people get banned just for their instance as seen in the OP
Ironic that this is usually the type of blocking that is criticized on MoG
.ml actually has this comm instance-blocked LMAO
So you aknowledge them being a tankie sympathizer too
Obv tankies aren't welcome on the anti tankie community lol
You sure are also bending over backwards to defend people with fascist ideologies
So you aknowledge them being a tankie sympathizer too
I did not, I was pointing out the hypocrisy.
Obv tankies arenāt welcome on the anti tankie community lol
Then goat shouldn't pretend otherwise like in the comment above. Make it make sense.
Did you read that comment drunk?
Iāve posted on there before but thatās just dumb and petty. Guess Iāll unsub
That whole sub always seemed dumb and petty tbh
I feel like it matters less now that piefedās a thing. Before that I think it was good for there to be a place where people could see what the devs of the platform they use believe. Now thereās an alternative
It was always petty to just go "THEY HAVE RULES OVER THERE, THEY DON'T OBEY OUR RULES!"
Like call out Tankies, but all it did was broadcast their stupid opinions and then get mad they have their own instance, that you can block or defed if you hate them enough.
It also just makes it seem like theyāre all crazy for the people who are on an instance that doesnāt federate with them when really any sufficiently large collection of people is going to get some idiots.
Same here
It is on my instance so it helps remind me I am browsing 'Local'. It has been kind of a novelty watching threads in there, but man the users that run it are something else.
Well meanwhileongrad was fun while it lasted I guess lol. Tell me you're a much bigger PTB than even the accusations you got on YPTB, without telling me.
goat's done a couple of weird things that I have observed. I think the most notable was that they made PugJesus a mod, PJ said he didn't want to be a mod, they left him as a mod even with him repeatedly asking not to be, and then a little while later, they made a big public show of deciding he was a Zionist and announcing they were removing him as a mod. It always felt to me like there was more going on with that story.
Anyway yeah it sounds like he's a tool.
always felt to me like there was more going on with that story.
Spot check
- "defending neo-Nazis" -> link -> okay goat was just saying exploding-heads.com were not themselves neo Nazis which as far as I was ever aware they were not
- "misgendering" -> well this one is gonna be hard to find, let's look in the old modlog
Really now? Your response is to turn the other cheek to civilians being gunned down on mass throughout your country? Oh, silly harmless Hamas raping women to death, stealing international civilians and slaughtering them inside of their own homes--we won't do anything in response but give you a stern talking to
- by goat
Oh
Oh no
Well
what would they be able to do? i'm the idf. i can bomb hospitals. i have fucking nukes. let the world tweet away
- by goat
if i was the IDF and I wanted to kill civilians without any witnesses, Iād use my largest and most destructive bomb to really make sure no one captures it on film.
but thatās if I was evil.
Well this has taken a little bit of a turn
Okay so yeah goat's a tool to put it a little bit fucking mildly
I checked what @PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social found, I don't think it's as bad as it first appears.
All of the references are from 2 years ago and a lot of information has come out since then about Israel, their propaganda, what Hamas really did and what they didn't do or what was overblown, Gaza and the Israeli genocide as a whole.
I will say, I have seen Goat condemn Israel and call their actions Genocide recently here https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20786914
Furthermore, I also agree with you @PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social about someone or a group manipulating to stir the pot. It's something the Tankie Triad has been known to do in the past and there's no reason to believe they aren't doing it now.
Yeah, maybe that's fair. On the other hand it was pretty clear two years ago that Israel was a genocidal monster, it just has become a lot more unanimous and urgent viewpoint since they started a new phase of the active genocide. But yeah, posting the thing about evacuating babies from Gaza isn't nearly as suspect two years ago as it would be now.
To me, the thing with PugJesus seems a lot more suspicious. That raised a ton of red flags for me, I don't really see any reason you would do that whole sequence of actions if there wasn't some kind of plot behind it. And then, looked at it that light, it starts to become a lot more weird for them to start this super public beef with dbzer0.
What about goat banning every dbzer0 user, as seen in the OP? Seems contradictory with
Tankies never venture into this community, despite this being a place where they can freely discuss their viewpoints.
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/21062682
And more along the lines of what you were denouncing
.ml actually has this comm instance-blocked LMAO
I wonāt get into the bans here since thatās being worked out in private right now.
However, I will say that this part
Tankies never venture into this community, despite this being a place where they can freely discuss their viewpoints.
Is indeed true, I have personally seen Goat allow (and even participate in) well known tankies to speak in threads without bans or comment removal even when they are downvoted to oblivion. Provided they aren't just trolling, which is quite common as you might imagine.
have personally seen Goat allow (and even participate in) well known tankies to speak in threads without bans or comment removal even when they are downvoted to oblivion.
Another random thought, but isn't allowing tankies to speak exactly the issur goat has with dbzer0, calling it a tankie bar?
Notice how he didn't respond to this but everything else. Like he agrees that anyone to the left of Biden is a Tankie.
Is indeed true, I have personally seen Goat allow (and even participate in) well known tankies to speak in threads without bans or comment removal even when they are downvoted to oblivion.
Still seems hardly compatible with being banned just because of your instance, but you do you
To be clear, this post is satire. Bad satire, but satire nontheless. https://feddit.uk/post/35692308
If it's satire, the first link still seems serious: https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714/300239
The fact that Philip was able to find actual quotes by goat from that thread (such as https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?commentId=4848030) seems to indicate that even if it was supposed to be satire, there were still actual concerning elements in that thread
Yeah, the post itself kinda rang some bullshit-alarms to me for reasons I can't completely articulate. That's partly why I decided to do a spot check of what it was saying. And yeah, regardless of what was there, we learned that goat is shifty in some way with his mod actions and behaviors, and also sort of at least pro-Israel-adjacent it looks like, and also apparently has some kind of beef with /0 now I guess. I still don't completely know what is going on with them but it seems like nothing good.
I've said before, I think that there are people deliberately trying to stir up inter-instance drama from time to time, spinning up genuine but pretty minor issues into reasons to create rifts between the "pro-AI" and "anti-AI" camps for example, or between the vegans and everyone else, or now (apparently it might seem) between the anti-tankies generally speaking and the dbzer0 people. That's one explanation for why this is happening that makes somewhat more sense to me than anything else I can guess as to why goat might have started to do this. I see a whole bunch of anti-dbzer0 posts in the recent past on MOG as well. That whole "It's all dbzer0's fault that davel has done this" line of argument sort of reads textbook similar to ways in the past that I've observed people trying to get two third parties to conflict with one another.
That's all just random guessing, I have no idea, just throwing out one theory for why goat might be being weird in this one particular way (especially if they have history of doing other odd things.)
Think it's my time to stop using MoG, because this is just stupid and ridiculous behaviour. While I despise authoritarians, I do not wish to be involved in a community run by someone who acts as petty as this.
Yeahā¦ goat painted db0 with a broad brush.
Libs gonna lib. Not comrades but crypto-fash. The lib version of "anti-communist action". Literally why we have fascism.
I made a post about this a bit ago https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52313315
Call out his admiration for fascism, history of being on nazi websites, and wanting to force gore porn onto people.
If he's the australian, did someone ask him to share his opinion on aborigines?
With Goat i'm sure he's on the opinion of "they deserved it".
Gotta love how the dude that posted that is all too happy to point out everything even close to tankie shit, but never makes a point of the fascist shit also apparent within those posts. Points for including both, but hey, the dude's bias is showing.
Edit: Nevermind, they deleted anything that didn't paint goat in a good light. Shocker.
He's literally been on Voat, the nazi reddit, and got banned there twice and kept staying on it.
He has literally been actively talking to members who use Nazi terminology, but then bans @IndustryStandard@lemmy.world for calling out Zionism as "Zio".
Goat is a heavy drinker at the nazi bar.
I was banned for reporting a someone who literally called for the ethnic cleansing of non-Jews in Palestine. And went on to clarify that they believed in exactly that.
Goat is not a drinker at the Nazi bar. He is the Nazi bar.
If you haven't, I'd say post that publicly on this com. It's not like it's gonna be a debate, but it will bring more of Goat's shit into public view.
I am a bit busy with some IRL stuff but will probably do so sooner or later. A post here requires a bit more effort than pasting a news article I come across and calling it a day.
I want to start by saying that I know I played a part in letting this spiral out of control. For my part in escalating the situation, I apologise. I do not want this to keep escalating. I want to explain where I was coming from and why I made the choices I did. For starters, I was suffering, and still am, from a loss in my family. I try to keep my personal life separate, but anxiety still seeps through. I'll try to keep that under control better.
I banned dbzer0 users because it looked like my community was being brigaded. Other communities have also banned dbzer0 users for vote manipulation.
I shared what I thought was clear evidence of this, and the response I got was that admins cannot control what their users do, while at the same time, I was held responsible for the language one of my users used. To show that I'm reaching out in good faith, I went ahead and banned that user.
When I tried to talk about it, I was called a nazi and a fascist, then banned along with people who defended me. That was painful. I have spent years challenging extremists of all kinds, from nazis to tankies to QAnons to religious fundamentalists. I have been banned from many far-right sites and communities for speaking against them. I helped shut down Ruqqus and /r/uncensorednews, which were crawling with neo-nazis. To then be called a nazi myself is deeply hurtful.
I know why these accusations are thrown. They are meant to sting, serving as shorthand, and are intended to shut down dialogue. But for me, it's personal, it cuts deep because I have consistently stood against those movements.
MoG has been targeted again and again because it is one of the only communities that openly stands against the Tankie Triad. We have had doxxing, bot spam, DDoSing, fake accounts, fake nudes, and harassment campaigns.
Much of this has come from the same circles that your instance federates with. This is not just disagreement; it is a real security problem for us and for Lemmy as a whole.
There is also the concern of tankies infiltrating the dbzer0 instance in bad faith. They present themselves as part of the broader left, but their goal is to shift conversations, defend authoritarian regimes, and undermine anyone who challenges them. This makes it difficult to separate genuine users from those acting with an agenda, and it creates an environment where communities like mine feel targeted rather than supported.
Some of these prominent tankies are Diva, Cowbee and Davel (lemmy.ml admin),
Diva is a prominent liar and openly a tankie.
Davel is a lemmy.ml admin, who regularly defends authoritarian states and bans anyone critical of them, they want to combine Anarchists and Tankies together, and removes posts critical of Putin's Russia killing women and children. And that's just a few examples of the many.
Cowbee is also openly a tankie, who defends Imperialist China, actively calls users critical of the CCP racist, and defends dictatorships like North Korea
Tankies have a long history of using and betraying anarchists. Look at Kronstadt, the Russian Civil War, or Maoās crackdown on anarchist movements. They speak in leftist language but always bend it back into authoritarian ends. I am saying that because the pattern is real and worth being clear about.
That is why MoG has strict rules about tankie rhetoric in our space. It is not arbitrary. It is because tankies consistently try to worm their way into leftist communities, blur the lines, and convince people that opposing them is just infighting. Yet what they defend is authoritarianism, state violence, and repression. We have decided not to platform that and instead to speak out against it.
So here is where I stand now. I have undone the bans. I want to move forward in good faith. I do not want fellow anti-authoritarians treated as enemies when we already face larger threats. I am asking for the same in return. Please do not brand me or my community as fascist or nazi when our record clearly shows the opposite.
We all oppose capitalism and authoritarianism alike. That is the fight worth putting our energy into. Not tearing each other down.
To quote db0: Campism, not even once, kids.
@irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com @Snowpix@lemmy.ca @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com @eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com @Sunshine@lemmy.ca @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world @PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social Canyon201@lemmy.world
- Doing ban evasion in order to take part in this converation in this specific community, instead of making a separate post in some other place like MoG, seems like a mistake
- I've also seen coordinated voting fraud from dbzer0 users. I talked about some details here. I'm not sure that banning all dbzer0 users is the right response to that. I mostly decided that some people were bein' silly boys, and that either the impact would be pretty minor and who cares, or else it would be major enough to show a clear fingerprint and then at that point it can become a bigger Lemmy drama issue. I think in general getting tangled up in vote-legitimacy wrangling isn't productive because it's always going to be impossible to see if any given voting pattern is or isn't legit with 100% fidelity (and people can't even agree on what are the broad boundaries of legitimate ways to vote in the first place).
- What's up with that example I brought up about PugJesus not wanting to be a MoG moderator and you making him one anyway and keeping him on, and then later making a big show of kicking him out asserting that he was a Zionist? If I have in fact understood that whole sequence of events correctly, that was super sus to me.
- I've interacted with Cowbee and Diva at least. Cowbee is deeply deluded, I have no idea whether he's sincere about what he's saying and I don't care, but Diva is generally sincere as far as I can tell. She just comes from a different perspective. Your whole example "liar" is just a quick misunderstanding about pronouns that got cleared up in about 2 minutes.
- I won't say it's "tankies" infiltrating dbzer0; I do think that Lemmy as a whole has a heavy scattering of loud people wandering around trying to create "campism" as you say and turn people against each other, whether intentionally or just as a by-product of how they interact. I would say that more than I would say it's one "camp" doing it. I also don't think you leaning into extra spicy inter instance drama in this fashion is a good solution to that, I think it's likely to make things 10 times worse (which I guess is what you're trying to say with this whole apology, so fine.) But I don't think focusing the whole thing around "tankies" and still giving people a badge of "enemy" is a good thing to do regardless. I think trying to make nice with dbzer0 while still holding out this category of "the enemy people on Lemmy we're both going to be fighting against" is kind of a lost cause approach. It's okay to be just independent, call out bullshit when you see it, and if bullshit happens to be clustered especially on the triad instances then fine you can point it out. But I think you are unintentionally continuing the same tribalism or campism that is the actual underlying issue with even this whole apology comment.
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I considered that, but opted not to since I don't want MoG to flood this community. MoG's much larger and if just a tiny amount of MoG users come to brigade this one, I'd be quite the hypocrite!
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I'd had some other community mods message me about the vote manipulation, specifically coming from dbzer0 users as well. A solution would just remove downvotes, really don't see the point of them.
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oh that was a bug or some shit, or Pug didn't know how to actually leave as a mod. I think we had an argument about Israel, where I was criticising his position, and I wasn't a fan of his moderation. He said he'd leave as mod, so I was all like go right ahead. On my end, he never left, but apparently on his end, he kept being promoted to mod. Then he went on the ban spree, and I think I fixed it by manually removing him using a frontend or something.
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Both are openly tankies.
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The apology is not just for dbzer0, it's for users like you as well ā¤ļøā
Recently someone posted one of the .ml admins saying the BBC was not neutral, and the entire community went "no that's accurate, they were told to not publish stories about Israel, have manufactured stories on Jeremy Corbyn, and constantly try to both sides transgender issues."
And I'm amazed goat didn't just ban everyone there in that moment for questioning an idol of the neoliberal brainrot.
There's a lot of .ml and hexbear users who moved to db0 because they wanted people to have to see their shit opinions again.
I don't have a judgment on this one, two petty mods fighting
So the vanguard is killing the anarchist community again? Tracks...
Which ones? We don't really like tankie members making accounts here. Part of the process of getting onto here is talking about anarchism.
I was mainly interested in communism as a means to work toward anarchy. But seeing the difference between the bulk of posts pushed me to the Triad, not because I've abandoned my dream as much as I've suspended it to learn more from more practical, less reactionary people with valuable insight and experience. Not that db0 doesn't have less reactionary voices, valuable insight and experience, just more that those voices are occulted from my view because the more frequent, loud reactionaries keep them from showing up on my feed. It's more productive and much less time consuming to just read and converse with active voices on the Triad. Plus the bulk of their time isn't spent grousing about people who hurt their feelings or looking to the past to hang onto it, but only for historical perspective and lessons that can be applied or adjusted to modern developments.
The post that started this from PJ was about db0 tankies.
I don't care enough to ask PJ but they probably recoded the accounts that were causing problems.
No info then. Got it. Thanks for stirring up drama over nothing.