Remember me comrades!
2y 9mon ago by lemmy.ml/u/Someonelol in memes@lemmy.ml from lemmy.ml
Let's do a little experiment:
- Tankies are horrible
- Nazi's are horrible
- The US is horrible
- Russia is horrible
- China is horrible
What the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you put an apostrophe there?!
(ahem, grammar and spelling Nazis are also horrible)
Grammar and spelling nazi's are a necessary evil for the good of the web.
There's that pesky apostrophe again!
Two kinda people I wanna punch.
One is Nazis the other is people who use an apostrophe to pluralize.
Your right, i completely agree with you're pov
Um..: Their are to kinds of people
Let's is a contraction of "Let Us", so an apostrophe is valid.
Unless (quite possible), I don't understand your humor.
It's "Nazis," not "Nazi's."
Maybe it's a contraction of "Nazibelles" :D
I like concision: people are horrible.
:P
and Nazis
People are fine. Hierarchy turns man into monster. Destroy the hierarchy, destroy the beast.
Nazis*
Lovingly, don’t use apostrophe to pluralize a word.
That would be horrible
A grammar Nazi talking about Nazis
Extending to the political party specifically for Germany, but not the others; could be worth doing that.
Like, EVERY country has its good people that hate the horrific actions of its administration. It can cause issues and paint xenophobia if you don’t identify and shame the bad actors. Instead, you get Chinese people that live in poverty thinking America hates all of them for having thin eyes.
Better thing to say imo: fuck Republicans and the CIA, fuck Putin, fuck the CCP.
The fun is if you had made some point about something china or Russia related and HADN'T also mentioned that the US is horrible, you'd get dogpiled.
The US is horrible, leave me alone
Yes
I agree with all the above
lemmy devs are actually pretty good at not forcing their ideology on others
A CAPITALIST SPY
GET HIM
It is way easier to get banned on reddit for a lot less than a slight not conformist opinion. Here they downvote you, stop. And i talk about real controversies.
Uh huh. I'm already banned from some lemmygrad community. I don't give enough of a shit to learn the name of it.
100% disagree and add in the fact that everything here is a ninja ban with no explanation. This place is an echo chamber in places like fuck cars and the socialist subs. Privacy too. Was banned for what I can tell was pointing out that lemmy instances do not protect privacy at all.
This place is an echo chamber in places like fuck cars and the socialist subs.
The way I see it, there are subs/coms that are like fight club and subs that are like country clubs.
If you get all argumentative and in peoples faces in a fight club, they be “no U” and argue back.
But if people just want to chill out with their friends and you come over to start shit, you’ll get escorted out. And rightly so.
This place is an echo chamber in places like fuck cars and the socialist subs
What aspect of fuckcars do you consider an echo chamber?
There's over a dozen socialism communities, if you find one to be an 'echo chamber' then I'd suggest seeking another. I'd imagine the socialism community on Beehaw would have a completely different vibe to the one on Lemmygrad, as an example
Was banned for what I can tell was pointing out that lemmy instances do not protect privacy at all
This is common knowledge though, wouldn't be surprised if the mods were sick of the same discussion being created over and over again by various users. Something federated - designed to be open, decentralised, unrestricted, cannot be inherently privacy friendly.
If your privacy threat model brings you to an ideological disagreement with federated networks, it would be reasonable to consider moving to an alternative platform IMO.
No use for trucks, only Americans buy SUVs, you can't find cars for under 20k etc. As for the mods, 🤷♂️ don't ninja ban and maybe folks would understand.
Glad to see you get your ass handed to yourself by others for a change. Has been a couple of days. How have you been?
Wat?
Great, innit?
Wat?
🥷 There is no public modlog at the bottom of the page 🥷
Why would the devs do that? Their job is to make the platform
Yeah but they haven't built in communism... yet.
I'd be ok though if it were the Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism though.
Huh... im not sure about that, it hasnt happenned to me but i heard it happened to others and i bash tankies constantly.
I experience the opposite. Whenever I criticise US government, I get attacked by hordes of cringy Americans.
I must say I had a pleasant conversation on workers’ rights in the US recently on c/technology (lemmy.world). By pleasant I mean "not being insulted because I live in France and workers do have rights so I’m a red commie" pleasant.
For the majority of Americans, as long as you are a pleasant person, you will have pleasant conversations, even if it’s about a disagreement.
A. This leads to politeness fetishists and tone policing. If someone says something offensive like "we should remove LGBT+ books from schools," I'd rather shoot myself than speak nicely to that person.
B. This has not been my experience with my fellow Americans at all. I even saw a mod from lemmy.world post mod-flaired horseshit in their politics community about how "The US is not a racist country." Fuck that.
🤷♂️ then you’re talking to different people than me idk what to tell ya
Your instance is literally swarming with liberal transplants from reddit, so now you're just being disingenuous.
I live in the midwest, and I'm surrounded by polite fascists. Fuck politeness, and fuck this racist nation.
Then don't complain when people respond in kind...
If they have dogshit opinions about LGBTQIA people or immigrants to begin with, what's rudeness on their part going to do? Lol
Their opinions and lives already lack any value.
Edit: Just noticed this guy moderates a community filled with bigots that engage in frequent use of an ableist slur, so it looks like this clown is referring to people like himself. "I may be an unhinged bigot, but at least I'm polite so I win!" Just the type of person I'm talking about.
Lmao you don't know even know what you're arguing against. I never said anything about whether you should be polite, I just said that if you're going to be a cunt you can't complain about people being cunts back
Also if you did 5 minutes of research you'd see that c/comedyheaven@lemmy.world doesn't allow any kind of hate speech, there are no slurs in any of the comments, and our most recent post removal was because of ableist and racial slurs. But go off I guess
If you're trying to lie about not being a bigot, you should really not lean into the sexist language lol. But thanks for confirming my suspicions, I suppose.
Anyway, dunking on bigots is always the right choice, so I'm not sure what you think you were contributing by telling me that. Just makes you sound like a typical fragile cis heteroni.
Hahahaha, nah, it's just funny when people who think like you can't handle people not praising you for being so enlightened. Think what you want about me. Weird that you're bringing identity into things considering you don't know anything about me. But at least I don't have to waste more time with you. Seeing you added nothing I accept your concession, you can't win them all. Just lose with more grace next time.
This is what happens when people base their entire world and political beliefs on identity, they always have to bring it up lol
Anyone who identifies as something and bases their entire personality on it is boring as fuck, my personality is all about my sexual interests, my personality is all based on my religion, my skin colour, my favourite beer…. Fucking snooze, 1 dimensional cardboard cutouts
Also just the dogmatism and zealousness. Like good grief dude, people aren't going to conform to your worldview 100%, just like you aren't going to conform to theirs.
But hey, what do I know, all I did was recreate an ironic humor community because I'm ableist and homophobic. I certainly haven't been moderating to keep the good parts and leave the bad behind on reddit /s
But their worldview is the right one don’t you know
I should've known. I really should've known
I really don't give a fuck about people like you or your opinion about me. I'm around you losers constantly where I live. I just find it ironic that someone as fragile as you would presume to lecture someone like me about politeness. I'm not patting myself on the back, either. It only takes a baseline level of awareness to avoid misogynistic language. I'm not praising myself, I'm just amazed that people like you exist, and that there are so many of you. Then you cry when you get deplatformed or banned. It's fucking hilarious!
Bro all I said was that you can't expect people to be nice to you if you're being an asshole to them. Don't care? Cool. Then keep being an asshole.
YOU are the one that got all angry and started making accusations and treating identity like an insult. Which, btw, has all been imagined because I literally have not argued a single position this whole time. "People like me" lmao. You clearly have some pent up rage that you're just waiting to unleash on anyone who you imagine fits that mold.
"Misogynistic language" in this context is just a phrase you're using to shut down conversation, just like you tried with cishet.
Yeah, why did I go out of MY way to be an ass by replying to something you said and lecture you about what you should expect from other people?
Oh, wait...
Idk why did you?
You replied to me
They just let anyone be a mod on lemmy.world, huh? Explains so much
No I didn't
No they make us take a test to prove that we're racist and hate women and curb-stomp gay babies
No they just implicitly welcome such users by not vetting applications like a proper instance
They want to be a new reddit, and reddit was a right-wing platform with shit-tier communities such as the extremely ableist and homophobic r/comedyheaven
No no, there was a test. They provided a list of all the things that MLs hate and don't want people doing (took me days to reach the bottom) and we had to figure out how to do all of them. Because we're evil. Literally Hitler. Oh and also none of us can read.
I'm sorry we can't be Holy like you guys. You truly are a penitent congregation. Except I'm not sorry. Because I'm so evil
I'm not even a good person, but it takes zero effort not to use a sexist slur. Super easy just not to do that. You lot always huff and puff about how it's so hard and so complicated and it's just ... not. We've known not to use the c-slur since like... the 1970s.
You really should do more research, how cunt is perceived varies by country and culture. Your worldview is not total. "You lot" continues to make me laugh. You resort to identity assumptions more than a republican. Just as zealous too.
Eat my shit
I'm from Mars, so I get a pass. Do your own reaeasrch.
That's you. That's what you sound like.
No research needed. It's a sexist slur. Your brain is destroyed by bad takes you got from reddit.
Eat my shit *cunt
FTFY
Hi from the autistic guy that is physically unable to understand the rules of „politeness“ and burns out while pathetically trying to mimic them just to look like a creep anyway.
hello!
Sorry friend that sounds stressful :(
I’ll give you a politeness pass and if anyone complains tell em to direct all complaints to DillonBrooksEnjoyer
Thanks friend! I liked your other comment as well btw.
How can we have a pleasant conversation about the murders the American soldiers are committing in the Middle East? How does one be pleasant about murder?
That's weird considering America's favourite pass time is to bitch about how shitty our government is
Lol yeah, I'm confused by this. Our government is a fucking mess right now!
is there any chance you are doing it while spouting Kremlin propaganda? because then there is maybe a time to look in the mirror on this one
Anyone that disagrees with the US government is spouting Kremlin propaganda. Riiiiight....
You are a joke.
Anyone that disagrees with the US government is spouting Kremlin propaganda. Riiiiight…
I mean, if you take what I said and completely change it, I can see why you might be upset at that. Though I would encourage you to reply to what I actually said.
You are a joke.
I am indeed a very funny guy, it's a bit creepy that you know that though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
There should be a bot that posts this link whenever the phrase "kremlin propaganda" is mentioned. Maybe then you'll learn.
goes on an anti-tankie post Comments that his posts are always dogpilled by the most anti-tankie group. Claims ad hominem when someone points it out.
:)
Is it wrong to engage in a conversation with people we disagree with?
Would you rather have us segregate based on our opinions?
I merely posited that you might be getting into arguments because you have drank the Kremlin propaganda, but from your posts I see it's more that youblike to defend the Chinese government for some reason or at least like to do "a Whatabout the USA"
also I am not sure you ubderstand what ad hominem is, it's attacking the person saying it rather what the person is saying, if I were to say "you are spouting Kremlin propaganda" would be the exact opposite since I would be "attacking" what you are saying not who you are.
hope that helps
A lot of americans and some other westerners always assume that anyone who disagrees with them must be infected with Russian/Chinese/(insert bogeyman) propaganda.
Whereas the truth is that the Western civilization is on a murder spree and the rest of us who are not Westerners are disgusted by it.
Little do people know everyone is shit and your personality that is only based on ideologies makes you look like a moron. Yes we know there is unfairness in the world. But any “ism” won’t fix it.
Doomerism be like:
"Yes we know absolute monarchs, unequal access to justice, oppression and the dumb wars they get us into are unfair, but no 'democracism' will fix it"
It takes a very basic knowledge of history to understand why this argument is shit.
I thought tankies were adult fans of Thomas the Tank Engine.
Chooooo chooo 🚂🚃🚃🚃
I'm personally a Maglevie 🚅🚋🚋🚋 floaty zoom zoom
Found the diesel
Yes
Wow someone actually made Thomas into a literal Tank engine 😭
That's Soviet MBV-2, two were made in Kirov manufacturing plant in Leningrad in 1936-37, though i guess the transformation of one of them into a Thomas was post war development (second one is preserved in museum).
those are foamers
1462 points 3 years ago
reddit will delete this comment cuz they're controlled by China but fuck the CCP!!!
same energy
Everything that doesn't conform to my ideology is CIA propaganda.
The CIA isn't all that bad. It's run by raccoons forming a shadow government.
I see this one FAR too often.
The US controls gigantic parts of the information/entertainment space: movies, music, social networks, YouTube, TV, even their politics is a keyfabey circus for the rest of the world. American propaganda is literally everywhere.
It's an image of consumption and individualism above even self preservation, so deeply internalized that Americans and perhaps half of the rest of the world don't notice. Sometimes it feels like the US lost its mind in 9/11 and started hurting itself in confusion but it was never a "smart player" in the world, just a narcissistic bully.
It's not necessary for the CIA to be involved because it's literally superliminal and grotesque at this point in time. The US throws its weight all around the world and is brutish and callous with its "use of force", which means murdering people (and destroying property, oh they love them some property) in case there's people in this thread that are lost in so many layers of euphemisms and irony.
Americans need to deal with this instead of becoming defensive and recurring to whataboutism. Yes, China and Russia are horrible and murderous in their own ways and at a different scale, but one must not use them to avoid self reflection.
I got banned from one of the communities for simply saying I thought both socialism and capitalism won't work without more nuance and blending.
I always figured the snowflakes were really the far right... But no, it's both extremes, apparently.
If you can't examine real world examples of your philosophy critically, you've no business in the debate. Tankies aren't willing to hear about the flaws apparent in the system any more than your average thin blue bootlicker will.
I say this as someone who makes guillotine "jokes." Definitely jokes.
Socialism is just democracy extended into the workplace. Saying pure socialism won't work is arguing against democracy.
I will always argue against pure democracies. People are not invested enough to provide a coherent opinion on 100% of the solutions our societies require for survive and thrive.
A vote over the use of chemicals for water treatment could easily end in their permanent ban. Hell, with the right malicious intent, someone could easily get dihydrogen monoxide banned from crop fields.
A pure democracy is how Idiocracy becomes a reality. Now, a mix, such as a republic electing the careful use of democratic socialism... Sure!
Socialism is authoritarian. There's no democracy in socialism.
The definition of socialism is workers owning the means of production. That means democracy in the workplace. Worker's councils. Equal representation. Majoritarian politics.
I think people confuse "liberal society" with "liberal capitalism" and think if you have 100% socialism then you don't even own a toothbrush or something
Communism is when no iphonevuvuzellaonehundredbajillion
The political spectrum is a circle. Extremists might latch on to different BS but personality types of extremists on all ends are essentially the same. Loud hateful aggressive assholes lacking the intelligence to understand nuance.
It appears the leftists would like you to stop saying unkind things about them. I guess it's good we're not in one of their specific communities, eh?
Way to prove the meme right, extremists.
Hurrdurr horseshoe theory. Even the wikipedia article on it is critical of this nonsense.
Perfect example above of not being able to read or understand nuance.
Yea, that’s more of a self-report on your end if you can’t comprehend nuance and think absolute rejection of classist hierarchy and absolute adherence to classist hierarchy** are the same positions**.
Extremists might latch on to different BS but personality types of extremists on all ends are essentially the same.
If you tried actually reading, you would have noticed how I in fact said the exact opposite. I never claimed they were the same, I specifically mentioned they may latch on to different things/positions. What I said instead was that they had the same personality type.
No actually I am most definitely correct. You are either just too biased to accept it or can't separate viewpoints from personality types and behaviours.
There we go, perfect example of extremists making discriminatory statements and unable to engage in discussion. I care about politics plenty, I just don't subscribe to one dimensional propaganda not supported by data.
Protip: attacking everyone who doesn't share your extremist and hateful views doesn't really make you look any better or change their mind. But I do get it gives you an outlet to be channel all your hate and blame others when you are just too dumb to understand nuance.
They took the time to specifically explain to you multiple times that they are in no way saying both sides are the same. You simply aren't listening.
I have a family member that does this. They refuse to speak ill of Donald Trump. They are extremely right leaning, and they are always making assumptions about others.
I didn't even say right and left are the same, I specifically mentioned extremists who are a minority on both sides.
Just because you can't differentiate between what a personality type is and what beliefs and positions are doesn't mean that statement isn't true. You just seem to conflate political positions with behaviour itself.
That is absolutely not a bad faith interpretation but rather a clear reading of what you have said so far. If you cannot see the similarities in communist and fascist methodologies and execution, both historically and looking at the current climate, you are not assessing it objectively. Both communists and fascists have utilized repression, non democratic governance, torture, and killed millions of civilians who have the audacity to challenge their extremist views. Similarly with this discussion thread being a perfect example, both communists and fascists react negatively to any and all criticism and works hard to brigade and shutdown any discussion that might be contrary to their views.
Again you should try learning to read. I never said people on both sides. Most people on either the right or the left aren't extremist commies or fascists. The extremists minorities on the other hand, one and the same. Intolerant of any other views or criticism. Your comments are a perfect example demonstrating.
I am not sure what kind of strange bubble you live in but that is objectively not true. Most people on the left are most definitely not communists. You either do not understand what the word communist means, or you live in a very strange bubble or country where everyone on the left is described as a communist.
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.
Most people on the left are NOT pushign for common ownership of the means of production and distribution and are most definitely not in support of a centrally planned economy.
This is also the danger of extremist views, they think anyone who does not subscribe to their extremist viewpoint is against them and the enemy when in reality, 90% of the people on the left would not agree with communist ideology which has failed in reality time and again.
The extremes of each ideology are surprisingly similar my friend
I honestly had no idea before I came to Lemmy.
I actually really enjoy a lot of the facets of socialism and communism... Most people would easily mistake my independent political position as "left", especially since I strongly oppose the current GOP.
But here in Lemmygrad, I am apparently quite the villain for suggesting some extremist, far-left policies are toxic.
Fuck tankies but also fuck OP
Looks like OP is going full-blown "I don't hate the homeless, but..." elsewhere itt
I'd love to see his ass banned again
As someone who has worked extensively with the homeless, I've seen quite a few examples of where supposedly anti-homeless takes have been attempts to inject more nuance into discussions than simply being pro- or anti-homeless, both of which are practically meaningless positions.
In this case however, OP just has some awful opinions about people he assumes are homeless. So not really any nuance here, just sugar-coated classism and general bigotry
I've been banned a few times specifically in fuck cars and then comrades I think? Absolutely some of the most fragile groups I know beside trumpets when it comes to accepting reality and facts.
What is it about reality tankies can't handle?
The fact that they are authoritarian and are apologists for state murder.
Are they? Or have you just met some insane people? I've been watching a series on the fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism, and see none of that in the theory.
Honestly, here's a look: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0J754r0IteXABJntjBg1YuNsn6jItWXQ
I once had similar feelings about ML, as a guy with more anarchist leanings. But this series shows the in depth theory behind the movement.
Marxist or comunist or socialist are not the same as tankies, tankies are the insane ones that defend the Chinese government of all places and ussrs genocides among others. The comunist just like the ideology, i concider myself a socialist and even communist ina good day and still like to bash tankies due to them spewing out bullshit and defending tyranic/fasist regimes.
No, tankie is ML, if you want to be very specific, MLs that like the USSR.
I dont think you understand what tankie means, if you call yourself a tankie you might want to stop.
Why on Earth would I call myself a tankie lmao? I'm not a fan of the USSR, I think they did some bad things, many involving tanks
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/playlist?list=PL0J754r0IteXABJntjBg1YuNsn6jItWXQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I've been watching a series on the fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism, and see none of that in the theory.
in the theory
of course no one includes genocide in their theory but if you try to apply communist theory to reality you'll end up with it. so instead of looking at theories start looking at reality
but if you try to apply communist theory to reality you'll end up with genocide
How? What do you know of the theory?
If something is not part of communist theory, what sense does it make to call it a part of communism?
And yes, genocidal ideologies do in fact have genocide in their theory. Just read anything written by Hitler or Mussolini.
every time it was tried communism failed eventually. it always caused oppression and in extreme cases even genocide. it doesn't really matter what the theory looks like if that's the reality
If your cake recipe asks for flour, sugar, milk and eggs, and you decide to use piss instead of milk, and shit instead of eggs, I'm not gonna buy it when people eat your cake and say cakes taste like shit and piss, though I will agree that your particular attempt did.
You also cannot possibly deny the role the US has played in every "failed" socialist project.
They literally took the existing theory and re-wrote it into Marxism-Leninism and then a state applied the theory.
the holodomor for example
>the numbers are wrong
>actually the kulaks are responsible
>the ussr is being depicted as bad by western propaganda but it wasn't that bad
>you're all brainwashed
they sound just like holocaust deniers
Gone, reduced to ashes
one thing amazes me for sure: there is still bunch of people loudly protecting their masters' right to exploit and rob them.
And they are doing this while are already living in the world destroyed and robbed by capital, where COVID showed how vulnerable and under-financed our healthcare system is, where due to the global competition and sinking profits of corporations countries are building alliances, and preparing a new big imperialistic war for us, where crisis goes after crisis together with high inflation globally, and where quality of life is sinking monthly.
are these "tankies" in the room with us right now?
Not anymore they aren't.
Why are the libs so hung up on criticizing socialists? If you don't like this forum then go back to reddit.
I’m a socialist but not a tankie. Criticizing tankies!= criticizing socialists
Yeah thinking criticizing Tankies is the same as criticizing socialism is tankie behavior
Classic tankie behaviour - > rather Clankie
That isn't how Lenny works, though. Anybody can fire up an instance for any type of community. They could be pro-socialist, anti-socialist, liberals, Nazis, goldfish fanciers...you name it. If you don't like them, you can defederate from them.
For sure totally agree. So why do the goldfish fancies keep making memes making fun of another community? Why don't they just defederate?
This forum isnt entirely made up of socialists, pretty reddit tier attitude to think that
What is tankie?
Those who support authoritative regime. I think it's the new commies. Tend to be used on those who are sympathetic to Russia and China.
I'd argue they're not commies - they don't give a shit about worker enfranchisement. They're just red-coded fascists.
True that.
Basically communists who defend Mao and Stalin. (And sometimes, oddly enough, the current governments of Russia and China.)
a far-left nazi
I asked this question a little while ago because I've heard the term but it's not always clear what it is referring to. I think that similarly to 'woke' it is used in the context of ideological or political battles, so the definition is variable depending on the context. Opponents will likely have the widest definition since that way they can insult the largest group of people whose beliefs they disagree with, eg. "If you support Ukraine you're a tankie".
Words like 'progressive', 'socialist', 'authoritarian' are more appropriately descriptive if that's what you're going for. If you want to have an argument then 'woke', 'tankie', 'SJW', 'karen/keith', 'snowflake', 'bootlicker', 'edgelord', 'redditor' are good choices.
The term originated in a British socialist political party, I can't remember which, as a term for other socialists that supported the Soviet Union's invasion of I think Hungary. The tank parts originates from the fact tanks were used. Like you say though, the term has become very watered down now and people kind of just throw it around without much discernment.
Thin skinned bunch, aren't they?
Post checks out
what to be scared of
tankies bad :(
Who gives a fuck what tankies think anyway? That's like caring about what nazi's think... If they disagree with you, you're probably doing something right!
Tankies do generally believe in things like universal healthcare and elimination of homelessness.
Just don't ask them how some of them were eliminated.
Nah.
Communists are social democrats who just haven't heard of social democracy.
Tankies are authoritarians who just like to masquerade under a less edgy ideology, communism in this case.
Most of the time, tankies tell me that I'm automatically a Liberal (the bad version of the word) if I'm a Social Democrat.
Social democracy is liberal, though
The political definition of liberal generally involves free enterprise. Social Democrats are generally trying to phase out free enterprise towards higher regulation and public good. Social Democrats seek to move society towards socialism nonviolently. That is not really a "liberal" thing by the version of that term generally used by Marxists.
Social democracy is not geared towards socialism. It sounds like you're thinking of democratic socialism.
While retaining socialism as a long-term goal, social democracy is distinguished from some modern forms of democratic socialism for seeking to humanize capitalism and create the conditions for it to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian, and solidaristic outcomes... It has been described as the most common form of Western or modern socialism,[6] as well as the reformist wing of democratic socialism. ( ref )
Social democracy is, by definition, geared towards socialism while still acting within capitalism to better society by pushing for direct action against inequality. The way a lot of socdems see it, the difference between them and demsocs is that demsocs tend to be neutral (or even negative) on steps that better overall quality-of-life that involve working within the capital system. For example, a socdem would embrace public option, or growing medicare as a good thing in the US because it's better than what we have. A demsoc **might ** not because it is not actually taking a concrete step towards nationalizing healthcare.
Categorizing is hard because different people think different things of different terms, but it is unfair to categorically call socdems "liberal" in the "free enterprise" sense.
You know youre doing good when tankies talk shit on you. I was once DM spammed by a bunch of nazis when I talked shit about it. Fun times and makes me stay on the right lane
Maybe you mistyped, but why on Earth would Nazis defend tankies? The most Nazi deaths in history were caused by the Soviets. Nazis foam at the mouth with rage at the thought of anything to the left of Hitler himself
Sorry mate, I was unclear. The time of DMs I was referring to was when I was talking shit about nazis specifically, tankies weren't in the vicinity of the discussion. But yeah the two are mortal enemies despite the awkward similarities between the ideologies.
No, I think you just make shit up on the fly. You start typing, with no knowledge of where the comment will end up
Y'know, such as weird oddities like this insane statement:
awkward similarities between the ideologies.
Similarities... Between Nazism and ML...
Is this some im14andthisisdeep horseshoe theory bullshit?
What's the difference between a concentration camp and a gulag? Horseshoe, apparently.
Ok, so you actually think horseshoe theory has relevance.
Uh huh. And is there something you're going to do about the reality of the situation?
The reality of what situation? Your belief in a theory that has zero relevance to reality?
The belief that if two ideologies just happen to have the same outcome, it's really not that different of an ideology, in reality.
You're just trying to troll me, and I'm losing interest. Socialism and Nazism do not have the same outcome. You've just been eating that neoliberal propaganda.
Alright so there is an inherent difference between uh... genocide and.... let's see, oh, genocide. What a marvelous conclusion. thank you. I will make sure to dismiss reality in favour of what someone said in a book.
Okay, I'm awaiting your arguments fuelled by the discredited Black Book - the only source that supports the Holodomor conspiracy theory. Ah, the shoe's on the other book-thumping foot now, right?
The funny thing is that commies have committed more than one genocide. Genocide is an inherent and unmovable part of communism.
commies have committed more than one genocide
So you're not even disputing what I said. Didn't expect much from you, but this is a new low.
Which part of communist theory calls for, or necessitates, genocide? Where, in between seizing the means of production, and abolishing the state, is there anything about any ethnic cleansing?
So you’re not even disputing what I said
No I don't think it's my job to tell you genocides happen.
Which part of communist theory calls for, or necessitates, genocide?
The authoritarian part of it. You know, the same part that causes genocides with fascism too. Also, as we've seen, reality, as in, in reality we see communist regimes committing genocides. I know we're still working on the "reality" part with you so take your time trying to understand that reality exists.
No I don’t think it’s my job to tell you genocides happen.
We're not discussing your job, so don't try to change the subject to what wretched drudgery you do for a living. None of this is done for employment, so that is an absurd point to make. But you have already taken it upon yourself to try and prove your points to me - but you are failing. Saying that you are not employed to succeed does not fill me with much hope that you are able to succeed at all.
The authoritarian part of it
There is not a single authoritarian part of communism. Finally we get to prove how little you know.
For the first thing, communism is stateless - that is, there is no state apparatus whatsoever. No need for it.
Secondly, communism is classless. There are no elites and peasants, everyone is simply a person and worker - of whichever stripe of work they desire to do that moment.
You know, the same part that causes genocides with fascism too.
Fascism causes genocides because it is an ethno-nationalist ideology, that inherently classes anyone but the chosen group as undesirable and worthy of death. There is nothing even resembling this in communist ideology, even the distaste toward capitalists doesn't even come close to the pure hatred fascism feels toward anyone not of the right race, sex, or nationality.
I dare you to provide me a single quote from any communist theorist that calls for an extermination of any kind whatsoever.
Also, as we’ve seen, reality, as in, in reality we see communist regimes committing genocides
You have yet to even name one. In fact, you have yet to even name a "communist regime", as such a thing is an oxymoron. You may find me regimes that call themselves socialist, and these regimes may even be led by a party that calls itself socialist, but you'll struggle to find anything resembling communism because no country has been allowed to even progress into socialism, let alone progress along socialism toward communism.
I know we’re still working on the “reality” part with you so take your time trying to understand that reality exists.
Dude, this line of argument is so patently fucking bonkers. Let me show you why.
2 + 2 = 4.
Why?
Reality.
Harry Potter's mother's name is Lily.
How do you know that? Where is that information?
Reality.
Cows eat grass.
Who told you that?
Reality.
Are you following yet? Reality is the total sum of knowledge. It is the least specific possible way to try to prove a point. It is basically saying "trust me, bro." You cannot say you are right by just appealing to the vagueness that is "reality". You have to actually use reason.
All those words and all I can say is look at how communism works in Reality™ and that's your post flushing down the drain.
Sometimes I feel bad about commies, so many words, so many books, so little grasp on reality it's really borderline delusional.
But then I remember that communism breeds genocide and I stop feeling bad.
look at how communism works in Reality™
Where is it? Is it in the room with us, now? Can you point to it, tell me its name?
What communism?
Can you please, pretty please, actually address even a single thing I just said?
I dare you to provide me a single quote from any communist theorist that calls for an extermination of any kind whatsoever.
Gooood morning!
Where is it?
In history, look it up!
I dare you to provide me a single quote from any communist theorist
I don't have to, reality does it for me.
If it's like in my country, tankie will be used to qualify people just slightly left of hardcore liberalism...
Sounds based. Which country is it mate?
France. We don't use the word tankie. But the government is calling the social-democrat parties extreme left (often adding dangerous), and often talk about them like equal or worse than the extreme right racist (bordering fascist) party.
Ah fuck you dude you tricked me into saying fr*nce is based
You have no idea what socialism is whatsoever, do you?
I do. But I find the concept of just "socialism" a bit boring to talk about, due to obvious reasons
If you think any flavour of socialist "just hasn't discovered social democracy", then no, you don't know what socialism is. Any socialist already knows about it, and probably believed in it once, but moved past it after learning that it's insufficient.
Uh, I think you dont know what socialism is. Read up on it. This comment tree is not about it anyway so please start another one if you want to discuss socialism. Or at least make sure you
A: let everyone know youre going OT
B: know what you are talking about.
Thank you
WTF exactly do you think socialism is, if you think it's off topic?
You mentioned tankies. Tankie is a pejorative for Marxism-Leninism, a form of socialism.
You mentioned communism. Communism is a form of socialism.
You mentioned social democracy - a concept many ignorant people confuse with socialism.
You also intimated that MLs simply "haven't discovered social democracy" - a statement that can only be said by someone who thinks social democracy is "socialism done right".
You also intimated that MLs simply “haven’t discovered social democracy”
This is especially completely hilarious for anyone actually reading even a wiki page and knowing that the the most historically important M-L party, CPSU, was originally named literally Russian Social Democratic Labour Party and that all marxists called themselves social-democrats for a decades, until the bulk of them betrayed the working class and supported imperialism in WW1.
Fascinating how the guys most enthusiastic about communism and socialism have the least clue on what it is. Please, educate yourself, they are quite simple ideas, which is why they are the ideology of the uneducated and violent
Then explain to me what it is and why it is violent. I wager you can't.
Reality (its a thing) is a bit of a giveaway
Reality, huh? So... the world outside. Okay, I'll go pick up a rock and see if the answer is under there.
C'mon, man. I thought you said it was simple? Should be easy for you to explain :)
Communism as an ideology is always supported by the uneducated, communism always leads into violence.
Reality is opening your eyes and seeing a creature with hooves that says moo and calling it a cow.
Communism is being delusional with a thin view on morality and ethics and supporting/doing a genocide.
Quite simple.
Nice blogpost mate
You're just trolling, aren't you?
No, i asked you to explain what communism is. Not describe how you view it.
What are its axioms, what do its supporters believe? What is its goal, and what methods does it promote to achieve them?
What does it oppose? What are its philosophical bases? What is its praxis? Who are some influential thinkers in the field, and what theories did they add?
Hell, here's an even easier one: can you even name a single communist philosopher?
Please it is not my job to educate you. And for these surface level discussions (well, socialism is surface level) you ought to just read the wiki page on it.
Literally take 10 minutes of your day to read it and come back to me after you know what socialism is. Dont even have to apologize me, I'm not like that, I just want to see people get better and flourish.
I already know what it is. I'm waiting for you to prove you do. I'm not asking for my benefit - I've spent years deep in socialist theory already. This is why I'm drilling you. Because you're just saying vague shit that does not hint at any socialist theory at all - just blind hatred of something you never took time to learn about.
Socialism, at its most basic, is workers seizing the means of production; the proletariat overthrowing the bourgeoisie to resolve the class antagonisms inhetent in the capitalist mode of production.
I didn't want to have to do this, because now you definitely know what socialism is, since I've explained it, and you can just pretend you knew all along.
Thank you for finally reading the wiki entry. Now, as you wrote, we can acknowledge how an ideology and the act of approaching the society described by that ideology are different. Like the difference between nazism (ideology) and holocaust (act of approaching an ideology). One is an abstract idea, the other is an act of reality.
So OT warning or a new comment tree, thank you!
Thank you for finally reading the wiki entry.
Nice try. Like I already told you, I already know what socialism is. That was from my own understanding. :)
Now, as you wrote, we can acknowledge how an ideology and the act of approaching the society described by that ideology are different. Like the difference between nazism (ideology) and holocaust (act of approaching an ideology). One is an abstract idea, the other is an act of reality.
Okay, so you're just gonna restate my own points back at me and pretend you furthered the discussion.
So OT warning or a new comment tree, thank you!
I've already explained, and your participation has already indicated, that this is not off topic.
So, to sum up, you have:
-
Attempted to insult my intelligence by suggesting I need to do mid conversation googling, after refusing to demonstrate any knowledge on your own part
-
Refused to add anything of worth to the discussion by simply repeating my own points back at me
-
Then attempted to flee the discussion altogether
Give me a single reason to take you, or anything you say on this subject, seriously.
Sorry to have kept you waiting, I have a strict no-phones principle during workouts.
Attempted to insult my intelligence
You have done that yourself by coming in talking about OT
Refused to add anything of worth to the discussion
I'm trying my best to make you understand. I am nothing if not patient.
Then attempted to flee the discussion altogether
Open up another comment tree please, and if I have something to add there I'll throw in my two cents.
Okay, you simply can only be trolling.
If that makes you sleep at night.
Its hard to come to terms with your limits, but I suggest trying your best. You can only get better
You're only making me more confident in my assumption.
You have to be aware of the facts here. You have shown absolutely zero knowledge on the subject of socialism. The only times you said anything about any of its theories is when you confirmed what I said, and that was only in implication.
The only point you have been clinging to is that this was "off topic", when we were clearly talking about socialism from the beginning.
In any case, my point has evidently been proven - you know nothing about socialism and have no business speaking on the subject with such ignorance. Educate yourself before making an ass of yourself online again.
This may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N52bJRe0Gg8&list=PL0J754r0IteXABJntjBg1YuNsn6jItWXQ
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=N52bJRe0Gg8&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Bruh like I said in the beginning, you are OT. You learned along the way what you are talking about, I'll give you that, but you are still OT. Make another comment tree.
Explain like I'm five what makes socialism off-topic when the discussion was about socialism. Explain how you can stumble ass-backwards into a conversation about what tankies believe in and not realise we'll be discussing socialism.
Also, saying I "learned what I was talking about" is just a non sequitur. I was talking about socialism then, and I'm talking about socialism now.
Uh the nation of Finland with its tiny itsy bitsy army would like to have a word.
Or Sweden, renowned for its centuries old tradition of US-dependency, especially their reliability on air assets to upkeep sovereignty.
Simple as.
That... proves what they said
If you have any knowledge at all from the countries in question or the world in general, you would've understood the sarcasm. Now you just prove you have no idea what you are talking about.
Finland has a massive army and Sweden is renowned for its air power. These are not secrets, but well-known facts that even slightly educational people know. Unlike you.
Dude it's an alliance of western powers. No matter how proud the Nords are of their armies, they are ultimately dependent on the military and financial domination of the US.
Really? Starting when?
Let's see literally any one of those countries try to go socialist and see how long it takes for the US to invade and coup them.
That's debatable, but you haven't answered the question.
Look it's hard to put a definite date on it, because capitalism didn't just happen in one day. It happened over centuries. The european alliance had its roots in the colonial rush for the New World, and later Africa. After squabbling over territories, they learned they could make more money by cooperating and exploiting the poor countries together. And it's been like that ever since about 1900.
Finland has been in an alliance for less than a year. Sweden hasn't been in an alliance in centuries.
Do people actually talk this enthusiastically on subjects they have no knowledge of? Scary, but explains a lot
There are more types of alliance than military, dude. Global capitalism be like that.
And this thread is talking about military alliances. So stay on topic.
...is it?
Damn those must have prevented war in ukraine
Is there a point being made with this comment?
Yes. Friendships dont prevent wars. Official alliances do
Deterrents are not absolute. Also, I don't know how you're not aware of this, but it was Ukraine's announcement they'd be joining NATO that provoked Russia. That doesn't sound like an alliance preventing war, does it... As I said - deterrents are not absolute. They never are. Police and prison (allegedly) deter crime, for instance.
it was Ukraine’s announcement they’d be joining NATO that provoked Russia
Boggles me how some people actually think this. Finland's announcement they’d be joining NATO that provoked Russia into a second war, right? No wait
Yeah, it's a stupid fucking reason but it's the one Putin gave. It was a convenient excuse for his imperialist ambitions.
Eh? What putin says is irrelevant to reality, please stop using him as a source. If you're about to tell me joining NATO is a reason for wars to break out please make sure it's real first lmao.
So you're gonna tell me it's about the Nazis in Ukraine and you think he's just going there to liberate them? Yeah right.
EDIT: FFS you got me distracted again. Just like you wanted, I forgot my initial point was just that deterrents aren't absolute, and alliances do not necessarily deter war - and this is just one example.
Whether Ukraine joining NATO was the actual reason the war broke out, them planning to join NATO didn't STOP the war, did it?
Again with using putin as a source, what's wrong with you? :D Anyway, there are some geopolitical analysts you could be interested who have way more credible takes on the issue than you, me or honestly putin. Personally I'm an unapologetic Zeihanist but Fukuyama is another author with great analysis on reality.
using putin as a source
Did you read what I said?? I was discrediting that claim you fucking loon.
Okay, I surrender. You are a great troll. You win. You made me mad.
Fukuyama is another author with great analysis on reality
This has to be a joke. Okay, maybe you do know a couple of things, because you can only have included this because you must know I'm aware of the claim of "The End Of History" and how absolutely ludicruous that is.
If you truly think neoliberal capitalism is how humanity is meant to live, and that we wil never and can never progress beyond it, you are hopelessly naive and sheltered.
But, back to the actual point, before I let you distract me again:
them planning to join NATO didn’t STOP the war, did it?
Did you read what I said?? I was discrediting that claim you fucking loon.
Why do you feel the need to specifically discredit putins claims? Alright if it was sarcasm but even that aught to make sense mate
The Fukuyama rant
Aight my boy has not yet learned that an author can make great analysis even if you don't personally agree with the outcome of his analysis. Once you graduate high school you'll get used to nuances like that in literature.
them planning to join NATO didn’t STOP the war, did it?
No. Because planning to join doesn't mean they joined already. Had they joined no war would've broken out. Simple as. It's crazy how reality, out of all things, is the one thing you refuse to believe.
Why do you feel the need to specifically discredit putins claims?
What even is this question?
Aight my boy has not yet learned that an author can make great analysis even if you don’t personally agree with the outcome of his analysis.
I didn't say anything about his analysis specifically. Just that if "The End Of History" is the kind of stuff you're interested in, you may be a bit politically naive.
Once you graduate high school you’ll get used to nuances like that in literature.
Puerile.
Had they joined no war would’ve broken out. Simple as.
This is fucking hilarious. They didn't get the chance to join. Because Putin didn't want them to. (And also wanted Ukraine but hey ho, an excuse is an excuse)
What even is this question?
Sorry let me ask that again, why do you feel the need to specifically discredit putins claims?
Just that if “The End Of History” is the kind of stuff you’re interested in, you may be a bit politically naive.
The analysis in it is interesting. I'm personally a socdem (as you prob already know by now) so no I don't like him because I think he's right all the time. What a weird way that'd be to read someone's analysis lmao. I've read marx too. And I laugh at Zeihans predictions on europe. But mostly, I laugh at your attempt at convincing me you read literature.
Puerile.
But true. Explained my thought process more above.
They didn’t get the chance to join.
Doesn't matter to my point tbh. Friendships don't help deterrence, only official military alliances do. That is my point and nothing else. putin had no choice but to invade before any NATO stuff come alive, but would've invaded with or without any plans of joining.
putin had no choice but to invade
?
As I suspected I had been conversing with someone who didn't even have elementary idea of the geopolitical situation and goals of rus*ia. Except for the things putin says about it, apparently. Please educate yourself on the subject I mentioned prior, Zeihan really is a good and easily understandable source on analysis over it if you want to check it out, even if he's very memeable.
Russia is not justified in invading Ukraine. I have zero interest in entertaining that notion.
Keep licking boots.
Huh? In the rare case you are not misreading my comments due to being embarrassed, you REALLY need to educate yourself on the subject.
Russia did not need to invade Ukraine.
Ukraine is existential to rus*ia. The invasion was always going to happen, it was just a matter of when.
You'd know this if you'd knew even a little bit of geopolitics over the region. Like literally the tiniest amount of education would've saved you all these messages.
The invasion was always going to happen
If you agree with Putin, yes.
Hold on - am I talking to Putin right now? Or just his personal aide?
Am I going to read about a Russian (that's how you spell it, not Rus*ia) social media secretary being disappeared after embarrassing themselves online?
If you agree with Putin, yes.
Who I agree with is irrelevant to reality. Sadly, he never asked my opinion on the invasion. I'm just stating the facts here, facts about reality which does seem like the sticking point with you.
And I don't spell rus*ia with a capital r, they don't deserve it.
Who I agree with is irrelevant to reality
So, you do agree.
Also, it's not the capitalisation I'm disputing. And I don't believe your posturing.
I don't agree with him. But I acknowledge the existence of his reasons. Very simple concept.
You seem to think his reasons are valid. Stop dancing around that. You said he "had no choice but to invade". That means you think he was justified in invading.
He wasn't.
I also "acknowledge the existence of his reasons" just the same as I "acknowledge the existence" of the reasons a child steals candy. They wanted it. The reason exists, sure, but it doesn't make it a good or valid one.
You seem to think his reasons are valid.
I dont
You said he “had no choice but to invade”.
Yep
That means you think he was justified in invading.
What? :D you literally just quoted me? :D Did I say “I think he had no choice but to invade and I agree with his reasons and the conclusions he came to” or “had no choice but to invade”.
Man, you truly are a tankie. Like a labgrown unfiltered nazi, sorry, tankie.
You literally said he had no choice but to invade. That is, from you, a statement of believed fact. Why are you trying to backpedal, here? This is what you said. You even agree that I quoted you. How can you say "he had no choice but to invade", and now imply you never claimed to agree?
If you didn't agree, you'd have said "Putin claimed he had no choice". But you didn't. You said, flat out, he had no choice.
You literally said he had no choice but to invade.
I still don't see the problem with the statement. He really didn't, rus*ian geopolitic doctrine insists on Ukraine being existential for their country, he had no choice but to invade.
He had no choice but to invade.
Aw, poor little put upon Putin was so blocked in, he really had no choice but to brutally murder thousands of people for conquest. He had a gun against his head, don't you see!
Wtf is wrong with you? You don't think he could have just... NOT FUCKING INVADED?
Fucking Nazi.
Not sure if you have challenges in reading or are just pretending to be retarded. Since you are a commie I actually can't tell if you can't read or pretend to be retarded for the lulz.
Also bro I'm going to bed now, sleep tight tty tmr <3
I think I'm being trolled here but if you actually don't know about the concepts of finlandization or Sweden's neutrality I have no clue how you can keep a straight face lying
You are saying Finland and Sweden had no deterrence during their respective times of neutrality.
And social democracy is when US spends money on military? Yo what?
I have no idea how you speak to me like thay when you are unaware what neutrality means.
I'm being trolled
Sources: alternative reality that came to me in a dream
A: rus*ia spends more money on military, thus making Sweden its protectorate. Finland's welfare is provided by the philippines who also spend more money on defense (probably, idk, you get my point)
B: like the time US deterred winter war that didnt happen
C: false. Countries like Finland and Sweden have always upheld militaries to protect themselves, alone, like we have done. Alone. Without US help despite relations, since neutrality is a thing. Look it up
D: god I wish, that would have meant my grandfather wouldnt have had to evacuate from karelia as a little boy while communists were raining arty on the train he managed to get himself into while his father stayed, fought and died. But actually US spent more money on military so it didnt happen. Actually no wars have been fought in countries allied with the US.
A: being friendly does not prevent existential wars, please check, uhh, idk, reality?
B: lmao alright, if the voices in your head say so
C: nato actually means not nato. What a take bro
D: Hahaha
They do believe in elimination of homelessness (through forced labor or murder)
Um ... Tankies and Nazis often disagree with each other. Are they both doing something right?
Often is kinda underselling it
Tankies and Nazis in the US are both vehemently anti-NATO.
Interestingly for the complete opposite reasons. Tankies think NATO makes profit, Nazis think it's a wasteful expense.
If tankies consistently disagree with you, you're most definitely a nazi 🙄
They are
It's amazing the number of tankies and overall left-nuts I've found on here. Figures considering the kind of people that frequent FOSS spaces
Fuck tankies, get money
fuck tankies, get money
Fuck tankies, get money
Fuck tankies, get money
Fuck tankies, abolish money (and the state and the class society when we are already on it)
no