"I don't like Muslims" is a valid steam review according to Valve
6mon 8d ago by discuss.online/u/bytesonbike in peoplebluesky from discuss.online
Props to the dev. Fuck em.
Hey look, free publicity! Based Dev.
Great responses from the dev. Steam moderation really needs an overhaul, whichever moderators or automated systems that are in place really don't do a good job. There's a lot of hate in reviews and Steam discussions that should just lead to people's accounts being permanently muted across the platform and preferably in games too where possible.
Steam forums are overrun by Russian propaganda bots.
"Please include a trans flag for representation in your video game!" is obviously rage bait for incels that are on there. And let me tell you guys, there are a LOT of incels/nazis all over Steam.
All this to say, Valve REALLY needs to work on their moderation platform however they can. It is a dark spot on an otherwise good platform. (I don't play multiplayer games, so I don't know anything about their gambling habits to make a comment on.)
That rage bait is mainly because Valve added Steam Points, so people say dumb shit to bait awards. They should remove Steam awards giving points to other people, I don't why they ever thought that was a good idea.
Oh, definitely. I can see it often enough to confirm. I think some people have caught on to the "grift" so to speak where they (and I) just block those accounts now. Shouldn't have to, but that's how it is for now.
What a legend.
"Also has Muslims"
Isn't that the case for most modern FPS games? Is it only an issue when you don't kill them?
You know, as a vehicle to have the developers respond in that quippy manner, I'd support leaving those comments up (also shows not to pay attention to any other reviews they post).
Literally buying this game right now to support them, looks like a game I’d enjoy too which is a bonus
islam is my facourite religion because they love gay folks and women so much
i haven't looked up on their trans stuff they might be like jk for all i know
This is where we are now?
C'mon, Valve has been extremely off hands in moderating their platform since day one. It's a problem, especially since their business model is to provide people value for using their service over DRM-free and piracy options.
in this case it seems like they were pretty hands on since they intervened specifically to override the developer removing the comment
Let's comment this exact same shit under every single Christian game in the market.
"Sorry I just don't agree with their immoral lifestyle."
"Eww this is pushing too many hateful Christian ideals. Not recommended."
Everywhere.
I unironically want to see reviews like this. I don't want to bother with anything more religious than Doom.
Yeah, as the days go by, I think by now it is just time to start using fire against fire. "This game is too woke - 1 hour played" on CoD or Battlefield just to make a point on how stupid their opinions are.
Based dev and I wishlistrd that game because it looks fun and I want to support them for the response alone, but I think I kind of agree with that decision, or can at least see where it's coming from. Disliking a game for its political message seems entirely valid to me, if someone made an otherwise amazing game but the message is "hitler was great actually", I'd like to be able to negatively review that. And since it's not review bombing but actual individual idiots, it shouldn't have a big impact wrt to the ratio. If anything I read a review like that and become more interested in the game. Allowing it at least keeps them honest.
Though "it has muslims" as a negative review reason still seems like it should be removed just for being racist (or if i were to give the reviewer way more benefit of the doubt than they deserve, sounding racist. I guess in theory they could just not like religions in games, but let's be real they'd love if it were christians instead).
Problem is that "Hitler" is an individual while "Muslim" is multiple groups of people all with different views.
Also yeah it's usually used as synonym for "brown people."
So the hypothetical wouldn't be okay if we changed hitler to nazis since that's a group of hitlers.
Yeah all nazis are fascist as they are defined by that.
What do all Muslims have in common?
I mean all branches, all backgrounds, all genders, in entire history.
What is something you can define all Muslims by? Mumins and munafiqs, sufis and maturidis, religious and non-religious, child and adult, Ahl al-Ra'y and Ahl al-Hadith, etc.
You can't really classify people by something and then make assumptions about them based on something else.
That would be like republicans saying "I am not a Nazi because I am not german."
Its a "valid," review in that it does describe how they dont like the game and why, and hinestpy thats better than 90% of reviews. However, and this is a big however, racists should not get a pass and should be banned and removed for being racist. We should not brook these type of people and especially not give them a platform. It only makes things worse. Stamp the problem out with prejudice.
The game is little rocket lab and actually looks like something I want to try. Can't wait to get it just so I can enjoy a good game and leave a review that I checked it all out because the dev is based and shoots down bigots.
I don't like Christians
I don't like anyone that wants to make laws based on their favorite fairytale.
For clarification... People named Christian, people of Christian belief, or both?
People named Christian have been good people in my life. So far...
Jesus Fucking Christ christians can be so freaking annoying sometimes
thats okay! as long as your bullying no one.
just saying
I don't think I could if I tried lol. Maybe I'm weak or maybe that's just empathy.
Edit: I actually don't hate any Christian people that I know. I've never personally met someone that wished me ill or treated me badly because of their religious faith. I also live in a fairly conservative area of California with plenty of MAGA flags around. Even my MAGA neighbors smile and wave at me. I'm brown with a large beard too. I'm lucky is what I'm getting at. I know a lot of places aren't as accepting as my home. I feel for those that don't feel comfortable leaving their homes (or even in their homes)
People defending this decision or blaming the individual mod is wild. Gabe is famously libertarian and known to encourage moderation (or rather lack thereof) in line with his libertarian worldview on Steam. This is unfortunately very much on brand for the platform and Gabe himself.
There are differences between the political stances of Libertarianism and Islam. And while those two realms of religious/social beliefs are somewhat incompatible, outright hate speech is not generally acceptable on the platform.
In this particular case, the mod should be removed.
outright hate speech is not generally acceptable on the platform
This has been on Steam for almost 4 years. Valve doesn't give a fuck. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1853200/TYRONE_vs_COPS/
They are not any less compatible than any other religion and liberty.
Every religion has been through phases of being more or less open to interpretation. Right now islam is undergoing reformation, which is always kind of a bloody affair, just look at the start of protestantism.
But that does mean that a whole large group of Muslims is starting to realise you can believe in god without listening to the silly parts of the texts (like what to eat) same as when Christians started allowing their people to eat pig and shrimps.
Don't just lump these people in one big group together. Religion is one thing, politics another. I grew up around Muslims in a Nordic country, and none of them are any more religious than my grandparents were Christians (that is, exactly enough to be able to claim that they are)
They are not any less compatible than any other religion and liberty.
That's arguable. There are some parts that align well and some core parts that the religion specifically forbids that Libretarianism demands. This is a decent reference https://eathealthy365.com/libertarianism-and-islam-a-comprehensive-compatibility-guide/
"a Muslim cannot be a philosophically consistent, “doctrinaire” libertarian without abandoning core tenets of their faith."
It goes a long way beyond conceptually non-orthodox.
I've worked with Muslims for ages, looked into the religion to understand them better and I've worked with Libretarians and dug into that because they have a LOT to unpack.
I'd say on the whole, the Muslims have a lot stronger grasp on their religion than the Libertarians have on their core tenets.
Now that this is out of the way, would you care to comment on my point that Libertarians don't notably support hate speech as a core tenet? Because that's the majority of my point.
Maybe not as a core Tenet, but it does have a... lets call it a coincidental overlap.
It would be interesting to test with other groups of people. For example, when happens if all my review says is "I don't like jews" or "I don't like Americans/Russians/Chinese people".
Wouldn't a more comparable test be "I don't like Christians" or "I don't like vegans"? If they say Jews it's often racist, not about their personal beliefs.
"Muslims" is often used in a racist way to mean brown people, not just refer to a religious group. "Jews" is used in the same way, to refer to an ethnic group as often as a religion.
The two are used by racists in almost the exact same way. "Christians" are mainly white, so racists dont often attack them at all, especailly since a large contingent of the racists are christian.
Is that a US thing? I've never seen that use in Europe (yet?)
You've never seen "Jews" used to refer to the ethnic group... in europe?
I think they're talking about referring to Muslims as an ethnic group. Jews does literally mean either the religion or the ethnic group.
I should've been more specific that I was talking about Muslims
So long as you're equal opportunity with your hate it's good to go.
The "Chinese" one, I'm seeing it more and more from western reviewers.
I think it's a perfectly valid review. It is stupid and racist, but that's clearly on the reviewer and not the developer.
With any rating system you'll always get someone leaving a negative rating without valid reason. At least with this one, anyone who reads it knows they can ignore it.
I used to work for a company that made blinds that people could order online and would then have to put up themselves and one person left a negative review because they dropped the set of blinds on their head while trying to install it.
The owner was delighted because it was such a stupid 1 star review. Anyone reading it would just laugh at the person leaving the review and wouldn't think negatively of the company.
Of course the problem is that the review influences the overall score, and people won't know why the poor review, they'll just know that the number is impacted.
Of course, that says, if that is someone's review, they can just only or make something up to have that impact.. only hope is for things to be well under the lizardman's constant.
I think steam top and tails the reviews, so if anything is way out of range it doesn't count towards the score, or at least it's impact is reduced. It not as simple as an average of the scores.
It's a valid review until some people start saying same thing for Christians and Jews and suddenly the policy will change to "minimize spreading hate".
I still agree that this falls under hate speech and should be removed for that reason.
I just don't think that there is any other reason for its removal, so Steam keeping there is at least consistent for now.
The only thing we cannot afford to tolerate is intolerance itself.
have you any exemple of that or it s just pure speculation on your part ?
The review is mean to say they don't believe races should be in games they play. It would be like saying you don't think X race of person should be allowed on TV. We're trying to get past that as a society, and it's not going to come about by coddling these racist fucks.
Are Muslims a race of their own?
Are you being pedantic, racist, or both? Asking for a friend.
Are you stupid? Muslim is not a race. Saying that doesn't make me a racist. Also I have parents who are Muslim and I don't consider them a different race then me, a non-believer.
Ohh big man with the insults. Nice, tough, macho.
Got more in you, need to flex on me some more?
lol says the guy who calls people racist over a disagreement
There you go, that's ovbiously the takeaway from Libretarians and Muslims have differences and there shouldn't be hate speech in the forum.
You are a saint, let me tell ya'll
ohh also, big man, where did I call you a racist, I can't seem to find that.
Third party here. I do not think it is an unreasonable reading that your “choices” were intended to present both options and that both were meant negatively.
Attempting to walk that back is like asking a coworker, “Are you being careless, dishonest, or both?” and then, when they object, responding, “I did not accuse you of dishonesty. I was just asking a question.” That would also reasonably be interpreted as an accusation of both.
Let's roll through the whole thread
me: The review is mean to say they don’t believe races should be in games they play. It would be like saying you don’t think X race of person should be allowed on TV. We’re trying to get past that as a society, and it’s not going to come about by coddling these racist fucks.
The point here is the comment on valve is against Muslims, I said race, which is not correct, but also not far enough from the point to make reasonable confusion. I clarify it down to a biggot like state and that it's bad
skunk: Are Muslims a race of their own?
So we can't fight the point I'm making, we need to attack it some other way.
me: Are you being pedantic, racist, or both? Asking for a friend.
Since they didn't say crap about my point and only attacked me mentioning race instead of religion, they either are A. confused that I meant religion and couldn't figure that out B. they know damn well what I'm talking about are just are attacking it instead of the point for the hell of it, or C. They don't like the point, but don't want to come right out and say that they're ok with biggots. You'll also note at this point that while snarky, I'm not calling names, I'm not being nasty,
skunk: Are you stupid? Muslim is not a race. I have parents....
so we're still avoiding the point and doubling down, that clears A. it's B. or C. He's getting nastier and trying to bully me on the position instead of actually having a real discussion on why they feel it's ok for people to act like that on a game review, when they have Muslim parents.
me: Ohh big man with the insults. Nice, tough, macho. Got more in you, need to flex on me some more?
He's throwing stupid straight out there. no wiggle room, I'm calling him out for trying to bully me on it.
skunk: lol says the guy who calls people racist over a disagreement
I gave him the out, he's had plenty of time, he just wants to attack me.
yes, I'm being snarky. skunk's just being aggressive.
I thought a few lines later we were going to have a chance to have discourse on it, but skunk is just doubling down on being angry.
I've already spent more time on this than what it's worth, arguing with people supporting hate speech on game reviews isn't going to change anyone's mind, especially when they decide to attack things other than the main point of the situation then try to play ignorant.
If you have something meaningful to discuss on the topic of the post, i'd be more than happy to chat here, if people are just going to drill down on secondary things, I think we're done wasting each others time.
And where did I insult you, I can’t seem to find that.
I gave you choices, you were at the very least being pedantic.
and I just asked a question. Also separating Islam from race is not pedantic, like there are plenty of Muslims who hate non-Muslims for being non-believers even if those non-believers are of the same race. Yet they don't hate people for being an other race. Are they racist no, are they xenophobic and bigots yes.
question. Also separating Islam from race is not pedantic,
I think the idea that politics and religion are separate entities is falling apart at the seems. If you look at the news it's 90% religion wrapped in politics these days. The US is breaking down the separation of church and state, Isreal is breaking it apart. Factions form in every political race around race lines.
That said ... https://eathealthy365.com/libertarianism-and-islam-a-comprehensive-compatibility-guide/
The core of the Islamic Faith and Libertarianism are contrary in a number of points and there are tentpole issues that make them incongruent.
A religion can be incompatible with a political party.
And so, trying to use the correct terminology is somehow pedantic?
looks like its just a mod drunk on a bit of power rather then Valve itself.
That may be the case but it is frustrating that companies can hide behind the bad actions of those working on their behalf or are an independent subsidiary that a normal person can't distinguish between.
Valve's stance can be determined by their action or inaction on this.
Imagine spending your time doing this stupid shit and then thinking you're not a loser.
I sincerely think a larger part of those are just bots fanning the flames. People go on and on about not wanting to see politics in this and that, but fail to realize that they are being conditioned to see red on anything other than what they look like or believe in, which then makes them comment political dumb takes on anything and everything they can.
insert "This car is woke" meme here
Which action do you referring to?
It's personal opinion, as is yours except they at least said so.
It's in the Blue Sky message when you click on it.
I felt it was important to provide the whole chain untouched.
Here is the Muslim one
what a fucking chad developer.
People defending this review in the comments here is fucking crazy. Expected for reddit, but it's kinda sad that people here are moving on the same direction
I zoomed in and read carefully. Don't bother. He's calling it "woke", implying that his problem is just with Islam specifically.
Weird , looks fine on my end.
Copy the link of the image. You see the bit at the end of the url that says ?format=webp? Change that to ?format=png.
Lemmy often doesn't show images in original quality unless specifically requested to.
Edit: which is fair, because the lossy webp is 51 kb vs 513 for the png. Compressed for longer, it could be a 265 kb lossless jxl though. Once Mozilla and Google finally add support (which is actually happening now!). It could also be a 322 kb lossless avif. All of these aren't max effort, just the effort that takes about 6 seconds on Image Toolbox on my phone
Lossily, avif > webp > mozjpeg > jxl > jpegli for this image, although I think this is just because jxl and jpegli use the same perpetual tuning method which must not favor dark areas. Which might be good for most images but certainly is terrible for this one. It certainly is much better at the bright areas. Mozjpeg vs jxl -> lossless webp (equivalent compressed size)
Note that all of the lossless formats would have been much smaller if the original screenshot in the mastodon post was lossless
You should be free to be rude online. It’s useful to know who the rude ones are so you can avoid them. Censoring is a bad idea in this case, and I believe Valve has taken the correct stance.
Expressing that a group of people shouldn't exist is way further than being rude.
People have always been horrible. It's better for them to it themselves than it is to hide them.
Sticks and stones...
Could we get a link to the game?
Edit: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2451100/Little_Rocket_Lab/
Wishlisting a game, even if you don't plan to buy it, can increase visibility of a game in Steam.
You can also mark reviews as not helpful.
Looks like a cross between stardew and factorio so gona give it a try this weekend
You people are the modern version of jobless housewives. Some random dev baits for simpathy points and everyone bites, hook line and sinker. As far as we know, those are bots from a guerrilla marketing company and not organic reviews. Don't feed the trolls with attention, it only broadcasts their message!
Any evidence to support your claims?
its not a claim, its asserted as a plausible explanation for facts
thats, uh, what a claim is. my bad.
Some random dev baits for simpathy points
its asserted as a plausible explanation for facts
Holy mother of strawman, In which world is that not a claim?
How did he reach to these "facts" without claiming it?
what a brain dead take
plenty enough bigotry in the US alone to think this is real before some dev con job
So it is a claim then. Because there's no actual evidence that the scenario being suggested is happening. Sure it's possible it's happening but no actual evidence. Therefore the best it can be is a claim.
Like words have meaning you know. You can't just decide they don't because it's inconvenient for your particular narrative.
Looks like someone forgot what quotation marks mean.
Who?
he’s pointing out that the quotation is not exact to what the review said, but like it was a twitter post or something, and the quotated meaning was spot on anyways, so he’s being pedantic for no good reason.
the reviewer is part of the ‘media should not comment on politics’ crowd who considers a persons race or nationality, as long as it’s not the same as theirs, to be a political statement in of its self.
so a moral-less class-less racist loser
...being pedantic for no good reason
Nuance has meaning. While I don't agree with the political statement the reviewer was making, it is not the same statement OP was accusing them of (though by implication, the reviewer likely does hate muslims).
This isn't the Oxford comma where genuine misunderstandings are unlikely—using quotes incorrectly is dishonest. It isn't pedantry to look at a quote and take it to be a direct attribution.
"nobody thought I was direct quoting when I said that you are just being pedantic" - Affidavit
Looks like someone forgot language is made by the speakers
Looks like you forgot that prescriptivism belongs in textbooks, you boreish snob
Looks like you forgot that prescriptivism belongs in textbooks, you boreish snob. Also, I pooped my pants.
It isn't just text books where quotes are used. People understand quotation marks to mean they are direct quotes. Using them incorrectly in this manner is dishonest. The person OP is complaining about is clearly a douche, but given the context, Valve is not (quite) as bad as they imply by refusing to remove the review.
Go clean yourself up.
Anyone gonna post the TOS or we all just gonna wave our dicks around in the comments
Does this reflect Mod or the organisation? Perhaps lighting up for the organisation directly or as here, via wider social/ community discussions?
"They're not all white males so it's DEI"
These people are just as annoying as the people that cry about there not being enough diversity. Just don't think about the character's races or whatever.
tbf it doesn't say "i don't like muslims"
https://steamcommunity.com/id/breakzoras/recommended/2451100/
I mean. The sentiment is kinda the same in this case. But yeah, do t use quotations if it isn't a quote.
No, it's significantly worse than just that.
it is quite clear that the reviewer is racist, but they didn't write anything that is racist
Did I suggest that they did? No, the problem is that every single line in that shit is trying to erase a portion of humanity that already exists. It's not just normalising hatred, it's making a normative statement that anything which acknowledges the mere existence of anyone unlike this bezoar of fetid smegma must be some attempt to brainwash all five neurons in that glob of rotting meat they have the temerity to call their 'brain'
The whole movement is gaslighting, but on a societal scale.
steam becoming a worse platform idk?
Yeah, what's wrong with supporting the arbitary, unnearned hatred of ethnic groups?
Muslim isn't really an ethnic group though. It's a religion represented in every race.
It isn't a specific organization of any one particular faith though. It's a category. I don't know how many Muslim organized groups there are, but my guess is that they all don't agree on who they consider Muslim. If you want to say ''this particular organization is responsible for...'' that can be accurate and holding that specific group of people or individuals in that group accountable for their actions is valid. But to say 'this entire category of people I can blame or hold accountable of any and all of the people I consider Muslim's actions' that's prejudice and bigotry, or whatever you want to call hatred based on category.
I'm not arguing that all Muslims are the same, although I agree there are those who would, and they would be wrong and biased. We see the same generalizations about every type of group though.
Yes, there's vile ignorant and inexcusable hate targeted at any minority group imaginable.
Should be easy to prove that he is in the wrong i imagine?
That is where you are at
Out of all the things to get mad about this is wild.
Don't be mad about YOUR thing, be mad about MY thing! MY thing MEATTERS!! 11!
Have you been on steam at all in the last decade? A review saying "this game is woke and has muslims" in it is so mild. Its not 2014 anymore.
L take
Good to know Valve is on record as defending islamophobia. Should align with the views of many of their current game customers.
Have you been to their forums? They tolerate and defend much worse than that review.
What does leaving this review up harm? Are you afraid a Muslim person would read it and be offended? That might actually be a useful review for some people, as they might like the things this person hates.
I dont see the harm in this. From what I can read they said "also has Muslims." That tells me the game has Muslims, and that the reviewer doesnt like Muslims. Maybe I like Muslims, and want to see what thats about.
More specifically, they wrote “Also has Muslims... No one is asking for this type of stuff.” At least that's how it is in the OP screenshot, though a screenshot in another comment doesn't have the second part.
Though I agree that leaving that clown show up is useful.
The devs response to it will likely make this review beneficial to the hand and not a detraction.
Rave [developer] Posted: 9 Dec @ 3:11am
Such a snowflake, that you deleted our response. Cool guy! It's a shame that people like you exist in this world, but hey, at least we could p*ss you off. Please never, ever play any of our games ever again
I just see it as defending free speech
That raises the question of whether or not this is free speech, though. Free speech doesn't require that we tolerate intolerance.
Known libertarian Shitbag GabeN is a shitbag. G*mers somehow shocked at this.
In other news.
The Sky is Blue. And water makes things wet.
Writing it as G*mers just makes you look like a total pillock.
Better to be seen a pillock then a G*mer
Nope because only you would be so stupid as to think of people playing games as some kind of class.
We are a gaggle at best.
There's a difference between a G*mer and someone who plays games.
Ah yes, GabeN, known for personally inspecting the reviews himself.
I think people need to look at the definition of a 'review' - it's subjective. If you have a game that's woke/politically driven, and someone points that out in a review, I don't see the issue - it's their opinion. Get over it - grow some thicker skin. Seems like nobody can say anything nowadays without being called a racist.
Are you suggesting that in order to not be "woke" or "political", it must only have cisgendered, white Christian people in it? That acknowledging the mere existence of people outside your manicured view of reality is anathema? Because that's the exact implication of the "review" you're defending. The hypocrisy is honestly pitiable. I am so glad that you stuffing your ears and screaming "lalala" whenever someone mentions the existence of people unlike you doesn't have any effect on the world around you. It's a shame we can't erase all of the other societal and geochemical effects of such blithering idiocy as yours and those of this "reviewer" as easily as your lot erase others. The paradox of tolerance is a solvable problem. The basic social contract says those who cannot tolerate others need not be tolerated.
Edit: ITT: an example of good moderation.
First, go read the definition of a review - I think it outlines it perfectly. Second, I merely pointed out what the reviews said (woke/ political) - didn't say that was my opinion, because I never actually played the game.
Sure, some peoples views will make their reviews bias, but that's still their opinion of the game (or whatever the review is about). You can't just remove peoples reviews because you disagree with their ideology.
And I didn't see any racism or any other forms of hate in those reviews. Saying that he didn't like it because he saw muslims in the game isn't racism.
Nobody is arguing if is a review or not. Only you. The dev point is that is a racist review (Islamophobic if you want the be technical about) and shouldn't be allowed to stay. And if you don't see the racism/bigotry in it, then you are incredibly stupid.
Didn't realize this place was overrun with hive-mind liberals, just like Reddit.
gesticulates in the direction of the door
Lol most of the people here would be offended you called them a liberal because they think liberals are too far right wing. You are in the very wrong neighborhood so to speak.
Gabe is speedrunning the Musk Campaign…. First brainchips and now Nazi enabling on his platform.
Just another fucked up billionaire to add to the chopping block.
Edit: lot of billionaire bootlicking going on. Just cause he made something you like doesn’t make licking his boots any less pathetic.
Yeah bro...
Gabe probably immediately parked his regular yacht into his giant yacht and sprinted to a fucking PC to answer this report himself...
He 100% needs to redistribute the wealth he's amassed, but acting like he personally supports nazis because of this doesn't make any logical sense.