libs - "slAvA UkRaNi!"
4mon 29d ago by lemmy.ml/u/jankforlife in memes@lemmy.ml from lemmy.ml
uhm... excuse me good sir but this is russian propaganda. don't call my wholesome ukrainian army 'nazis' they're just small chunguses and lowk like the avengers saving themselves from thanos.
lowk like the avengers saving themselves from thanos
i always imagine the nazis w super hereo tattoos and the most clueless out of anyone.
Andrea rochelli was killed because he was documenting ukranian war crimes. This is nazi shit.
Shut up, your is American propaganda. War could have ended in 4 months if not for Biden. Do you remeber the instambul treaty ?
Her comment is satire.
the meme refers to the elements of the army that see themselves in OUN & NS tradition.
No wonder the libs love Graham Platner, just more goodies for them at the cost of the world
Should be also third hand with Graham Plattner, but it would be lib too.
Remember Ukraine killing journalists documenting war crimes? Andrea Rochelli was the name. He was added on an infamous list of ukranians enemies and killed after that
This narrative is fucking ridiculous to help justify an unjustifiable war. Putin is a fascist leading a fascist regime in a country that is the farthest thing from USSR. Invaded an independent country, started a modern trench war, because the Ukrainian army has a group that has Nazis? That's the lamest excuse. All armies in the world have groups that are Nazi/Fascist sympathizers. You need to stop parroting fascist propaganda while calling yourselves Leftists.
The current regime in Kiev was installed by a US coup in 2014. Obama even bragged about carrying it out.
"Independent country" lol no, current gov in Ukraine was installed by US backed coup, is an obvious puppet for our foreign policy, removing it is a good thing regardless of who does it
Remeber how many cia bases Biden could install there. Biden son was getting 1million per month to dont work.
All armies in the world have groups that are Nazi/Fascist sympathizers.
Evidence of this? It's hard to prove a 100%, and I doubt AES countries do.
This is true. You need people ready to kill and die because of an order. Sane people, if free to choose, dont go to war
It only takes one side to have fanatics for the other side to need to defend itself; it's not just an order that drives sane people to war.
You are an American, or you only get info on socials. Read about Ukranian war a bit, how it could have ended in few months, how the end of the war would have hurt american interests. Stat here, but eurpean newspapers were pretty informing at that time. https://www.intellinews.com/fresh-evidence-suggests-that-the-april-2022-istanbul-peace-deal-to-end-the-war-in-ukraine-was-stillborn-321468/
Please guys stop thinking about good and bad guys in politics or wars. Start thinking.
I love how libs have no framework for analyzing why things happen so you just end up combining words you've heard before into a salad. Entertain me, tell me why you think this war started.
All armies in the world have groups that are Nazi/Fascist sympathizers
"Everyone has fascists"
A) wrong, pure projection
B) And do those groups run the entire government?
Americans are mostly one dimensional. They really believe they are the good guys fighting to export freedom and democracy in the world. They are mostly ultras, not an once of auto critic for their team. They are always the good guys. Always. It is irritating. Anyway, zelensky government was a coup. The guy is right.
Injustifiable war, exactly. Donbass is occupied from 2008. They had elections to go with russia. Instambul treaty was signed, when usa and Johnson decided war had to continue. This is an injustifiable war driven by USA. Like many in the world.
If you say "fascist" often enough, reality will bend to your will. You are a IRL jedi, controlling the world with your mind. Keep doing it.
Wait, why are liberals represented by the black arm? Are you implying that all liberals are black /j
"We originally had both as black people but the conservatives lynched the other one."
Imperialism is actually a good thing when the government you're attacking has bad people in it. Just like Iraq, right guys?
Oh, was Iraq bad? I was told by shitlibs that the guy in charge of the government who we put there to secure resources and kill leftists had suddenly and overnight become the ultimate villain and we would be greeted as liberators. I was told that if I disagreed with total war I was a Putin shill Saddm lover. What ever happened to that? Seems like everyone is pretending they never supported it now.
Anyway, no time to think back and learn from the past. We have to support this nazi government that we installed to secure resources and kill leftists! These are our nazis, that makes it okay! Operation Paperclip? Idk sounds like some commie conspiracy theory!
Like what's the common American denominator here dude? Reeeally think about it. Also you don't know what imperialism is, or you wouldn't be using a definition that classifies the D Day landings as "imperialist".
Some bad people in it
"Just a few seig heiling bad apples in the heights of government and military power"
Overall this is a truly shit-tier analogy, try harder. You are the Humvee-driving Iraq war cheerleader in this metaphor.
One bad apple spoils the whole barrel.
Was Iraq bad? Ofc. Who installed saddam in the first place? Trump is telling: Americans first create the mess, buy the dips ( like Iraqi gold), then either flee like in Afghanistan, or try to reach some kpi for allied press. American imperialism is a cancer.
💯%. Set em up, knock em down, repeat, profit
You read and write like an LLM, I'm saying both wars are bad
Liberals and dehumanization, an iconic duo
Yeah every war is "bad" genius, if that's the extent of your analysis then you're useless. Try actually engaging with any of my points and then we can talk.
Lol dumb
Yeah they're nazi shits, but they are also ultranationalist fanatics who say they are ready die for their country. Putin and gang intend to invade. Tight spot. What are the options here?
A: Kick them out and persecute them : resources allocated elsewhere, risk of great loss from the invading russians.
B: Don't let them participate : not great, pretty much sheltering nazis behind lines.
C: Let the ultranationalist fanatics die for their country like they want to.
"Sure they're Nazis, but they help us fight Russia!"
-liberals in 1938
So did their plan work? Are the Nazis in Ukraine weaker or stronger now?
They have a list of people to kill like Israel. Mostly journalists. Some Italian guy was killed because he was documenting ukranian war crimes. If one kills like a nazi, act as a nazi, is he a nazi?
They may be Nazis, but they're our Nazis so that makes it okay
A lot of the Nazis are staying closer to Kiev, leaving conscripts to die on the frontlines. That's why hundreds of thousands of conscripts have deserted or fled to Belarus.
Dude donbass is occupied from 2008. Wealthy ukranians dont give a shit, 5millions fled cause they could buy houses everywhere. First week of war in Valencia we saw a spike in mercedes, thought they were Russians. They were so many. All males, 20/40 years old, buying flats.
Libs also be like: "Anyone criticizing Israel is antisimetic" 🤝 "Anyone criticizing Ukraine is a Russian bot"
"Russian War of Aggression" lol this is like when southerners call the civil war "the war of northern aggression". Just absolute cope to pretend they didn't do everything possible to start it. I guess nazis doing ethnic cleansing isn't worth stopping to you, huh?
"Umm no actually it's the russians who are nazis, not the nazis! You're a paid bot for remembering things! You're not a real person! I'm not a fascist btw"
Always projection with you nazis, huh?
The key distinction with Ukraine is that the Banderites actually are in control of the state, and the various neo-Nazi groups are empowered by said state. Every state has Nazi groups, but Ukraine stands out in that said Nazi groups took power in a coup in 2014.
The EU is also fascist, as imperialism is declining they are surging to the right to force austerity at home. Same with the US Empire. The west is overwhelmingly fascist.
The annexation of Crimea happened after Euromaidan. Yanukovych, the democratically elected president, was faced with a loan from the IMF and a loan from Russia. The IMF loan required austerity, privatizing social services, etc, while the Russian loan did not. Yanukovych went with the Russian loan, which sparked anti-government demonstrations due to the far-right not wanting to be closer to Russia.
The west backed the Banderites, who committed the Maidan Massacre, coup'd Yanukovych, and this sparked Donetsk and Luhansk to secede (as they were regions that majority supported Yanukovych). Fast forward to 2022, and a decade of civil war later, Donetsk and Luhansk asked Russia for support, to which they agreed. This sparked the modern phase of the war.
In all cases, the origins were in a decision made by a democratically elected president to reject western forced austerity, which enabled the rise of the Banderites to state power.
So normally far right is always against some groups: nazi against jews, eu far right against immigrants etc
Who are ukrainian far right against? Russians?
Also why? For EU i think they work with bourgois cuz oppressed immigrants would work for cheaper
Whats then motive in Ukraine?
(Just some questions cuz you seem knowledgable on this topic)
Excellent question! In order to do the subject any justice, we need to explore fascism, Russia, and Ukraine, then circle back.
1. Fascism
In general, what is fascism, and what causes it? Fascism is, essentially, violent reaction to assert and maintain bourgeois hegemony. It rises in reaction to socialism, and to capitalist decay, coming from small business owners and sole proprietors above all else (who are pushed downward closer to the proletariat, their class position is precarious). Anti-communism is core to fascism, and usually nationalism is also core, which leads to attacking "out-groups."
Capitalist decay breeds reaction. It's also helpful to understand that as imperialism decays, austerity is forced inwards to cover costs. As profits from plunder go down, safety nets are trimmed so that the working classes absorb the brunt of the impact while the imperialist bourgeoisie stay on top, relatively unscathed.
2. Russia
The modern Russian Federation is a dictatorship of capital, sort of like a social democracy. Large state owned enterprises are leftovers from their soviet heritage, but the economy is thoroughly controlled by the nationalist bourgeoisie, the "oligarchs." Capitalism was devastating for Russia, so the second largest faction behind the nationalists are the communists, in the CPRF (not the pro-west liberals).
This causes the nationalists to try to appease the communists seeking a return to socialism by trying to claim soviet heritage as Russian heritage, not socialist heritage. It's a balancing act, where communists are gaining in power and the nationalists are losing power to them, but they are still far apart in terms of total power.
The nationalists gained power by kicking out western imperialists that looted the country in the 90s, but now they are losing their firm support amongs the public gradually to the communists.
3. Ukraine
Stepan Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator. With the dissolution of the soviet union, these nationalist groups began to solidify, such as Azov. Capitalism brought rampant destruction and decay, and bred reaction.
Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe, and one of the most devastated by the dissolution of socialism. This became a ripe breeding ground for fascism. This is why they are tearing down soviet monuments, and upholding Stepan Bandera.
4. Circling Together
The far-right in Ukraine oppose Russia, yes. They do so as part of their anti-communist stances, opposing their own soviet heritage and despising Russia for refusing to do so. They also have connections to the western imperialist bourgeoisie, who have been supporting them for the same reasons they support Israel, as attack dogs. Within Ukraine, the Donbass region was historically Russian, and as such is also targeted by the Banderites in Kiev.
The 2014 Euromaidan coup allowed the Banderites to take power, oppressing Russians in eastern Ukraine, and allowing the west to imperialize and plunder Ukraine in exchange for personal wealth. Essentially, corrupt compradors were installed, modern Ukraine is a gangster state more than anything.
Leftover unresolved contradictions from the disollution of the USSR were leveraged by the west to spark the conflict and attempt to force Russia into opening their capital markets for foreign plunder as they already succeeded in doing in Ukraine.
so the USA is a nazi state?
Holy shit, you're finally starting to understand
so EU is Nazi?
Yes, asshole, the bloc that has supported Palestinian genocide to the hilt, imprisoned anti-genocide protestors, and armed Ukranian nazis in a campaign of ethnic cleansing that saw them murder 13,000 civilians in the Donbas Republics...are fucking nazis. I'm so glad you're starting to get it.
"Anyone who points out that I'm supporting a nazi regime is a both a treacherous Russian and also not a real person"
"America can't be racist because they had a black president"
Headass
List of sources: https://lemmy.ml/post/40735900/22934447
Like at this point you're just desperate not to admit to yourself that the same media that tried to get you to support genocide in Palestine successfully tricked you into supporting nazis in Ukraine
Step one: ask for evidence Step two: claim you don't need evidence
Slave workers? What?
"Yes, it's completely, totally impossible"
"Sure he's doing a racially motivated lebensraum genocide but he's not a nazi" lol ok fuck off now with your nazi apologia
Do you get out-argued by "bots" often? You find yourself in this position a lot, flailing with weak meaningless redditisms and telling yourself that the person proving you wrong isn't a real human? You're pathetic dude.
You are not proving a single thing you stated. You just spit word with the impression it makes sense.
Even if we ignore what he's doing in Palestine, he's open hitlerite, just more out of the closet than you.
Yes of course I am a Nazi, I believe in human rights, that the human race is unique, that no ethnics is superior to another and that a people with its own culture and language have the rights to have nation.
If that is your definition of a nazi I guess you can say Putin is a democratic president and Trump an anti pedophile.
and that a people with its own culture and language have the rights to have nation.
This is why Donetsk and Luhansk seceded from Kiev, though, as they are primarily culturally Russian, and Kiev, post-Euromaidan, began suppressing the Russian language. If you genuinely hold the values you do, then you should support the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics against Kiev.
They saw Israel do it and have the same imperial power goading them.