What Fediverse instances would you recommend to others?
4mon 5d ago by lemmy.world/u/Cantaloupe877 in asklemmy
The Fediverse is huge and overwhelming to a newcomer, with many different types and each with servers to pick from. Which ones would you suggest checking out or avoiding?
Assuming we're talking about instances we'd recommend to new Fediverse users, I'd recommend against lemmy.world. Not because there's anything wrong with the instance, but simply because it's the largest, by a fairly large margin. A central principal of the fediverse is decentralization, and to that end, it's healthier to spread the users across many instances than to have folks concentrated too heavily on any one.
A central principal of the fediverse is decentralization, and to that end, it's healthier to spread the users across many instances than to have folks concentrated too heavily on any one.
It's certainly healthier for the whole to have users spread across instances, but that's a matter of emergence. What's your pitch to convince an individual to choose a smaller instance, when it's far more likely that their instance will cease to exist, taking their identity, history and hosted communities with it?
It’s trust and uptime data so it seems. Pick the server you think is most trustworthy and will stand the longest.
I figured joining the biggest one would be the most exciting and active. I believe federation happens when a user on one instance follows another, so joining a smaller one might mean you miss some content. I could be wrong though.
You're only missing content if your instance defederates from another and vice versa or if you block instances yourself.
It might be a bit easier to find new communities at first by scrolling through the local feed on a bigger community, but you can also do this without making an account there.
I think stability and speed of an instance are better selection criteria since they effect your experience much more. Piefed instances tend to offer a smooth and fast experience. E.g. piefed.social, piefed.zip, and the others mentioned in one of the other comments.
You're only missing content if your instance defederates from another and vice versa or if you block instances yourself.
You're missing content from communities that no one on your instance follows yet.
Yep, but piefed and lemmy both have tools to propogate communities to small instances so that they can be discovered and followed. So you won't see content that no one on the instance is interested in, but if someone is, they'll be able to find the community for it, even if they're on a small instance.
That's good to know!
tankies need to be on thier own instances so they can circlejerk each other. politics is problematic in .world, they try to hid subtley calling people antisemtitic
Problem with lemmy.world is that because it's got so open registration, some instances block it entirely. Though it's a good place to start and know what to expect. Because Lemmy is pretty slow, I personally prefer to browse All - New and just block all Communities (and instances) that I don't want to see. I subscribe too of course for those times I just want to see the content I'm actually interested in but for casual browsing, browse by all.
There are tools nowadays that share communities around to smaller instances through bot accounts that auto subscribe.
It also makes it easier when you create a community, now it will automatically show up on most instances.
It basically works like that on Mastodon, but on Lemmy, etc. you will see most of the content of all federated instances.
It's common for new users to overthink the choice of instance - it doesn't make a huge difference for most users and you can always switch if you find a better fit in the future.
You can pick one that is local to your country/region, or if you have a special interest like art or environmental activism, you may be able to find one that specializes in that. Otherwise choose any instance that is stable.
Lemmy.world is actually defederated from some larger instances, and many smaller ones defederate it for being too dominating.
Just FYI everyone, this spike is sort of a glitch and its quite obvious just from looking at how steep the curve is. It all comes from nodebb which is a forum software and i guess they switched on federation on 11.01.2026 which gave us this magical bump.
They are real users probably, but what i mean is that this wasnt a rush of new users, but just old (mostly inactive) users that were never considered part of the fediverse until now.
Still increases footprint/grants more credibility to the Fediverse, which I think is a good thing. It just won't really impact the daily experience here
On a slightly different note NodeBB is very cool and worth checking out. Did those unaware it's a Goodreads, Letterboxd, Steam Reviews, etc all rolled into one.
I also recommend lemmy.zip or piefed.zip
Zip is awesome! I switched over to db0, but simply because of a technical glitch on .zip like a year ago now, which was rapidly fixed by the admin.... and I was too impatient to withstand not being able to post, lol.
A+ instance imo.
What's awesome about it?
Great head admin, good variety of local communities, great users?
The monthly updates on home@lemmy.zip
Seconding .zip! I haven't had any qualms with it since joining a few months ago
Recommend:
Avoid:
- Lemmy.ml (Tankie fascist koolaid. Unless you enjoy being gaslit and manipulated similar to Trump and his fascist thugs, this should be avoided like the bubonic plague)
- Lemmy.world (sorry guys but seriously please reconsider accepting literally everyone for users; it's crazy how much spam and nonsense is coming from your instance)
hexbear, lemmygrad as well. hexbear make themselves sound"cute" to hopefully trick people into engaging in thier instance, when in fact they are tankies.
Hexbear is openly communist, it doesn't "try to sound cute to trick people." That's genuinely the community, tons of queer communists.
Fyi, you might to clarify that new users should avoid hexbear and lemmygrad.
If someone only skims through the comments, yours can read as an endorsement, especially since the user you replied to had endorsements at the top of their comment
If people are communists, I see no reason why they should avoid the communist instances. If you don't like communists, wouldn't you rather they be in instances you're defederated with or can easily block? People can decide for themselves if they want to stay or not after checking an instance.
Of course, another user of lemmy.ml that can't figure out the difference between tankies and communists. Why am I not surprised.
I've seen communists of every denomination get called tankies. I've seen progressive liberals get called tankies by zionists for supporting Palestine. I've seen anarchists get called tankies by liberals for saying the Uighur genocide is not real. I'm pretty sure I once saw a conservative get called a tankie by other conservatives for not being far right enough, but I can't say I remember where.
My point is, it's really not helpful to act like the word "tankie" actually has some agreed-upon meaning. If you're generally on the left, some group of people out there will consider you a tankie. I guarantee that, it's just a matter of waiting and seeing.
If you want to say that there are communists who are authoritarian and there are communists who aren't say that instead, and we can have another conversation.
"Tankie" is just a pejorative for communists, it's a strawman that essentially says that the Red Scare was correct, but that that's a good thing. In reality, the ones called "tankies" have very reasonable views and reasons for supporting existing socialism, the label gets thrown to shut down discussion.
You may disagree with communists, but we are by no means fascists. Fascism is inherently tied to protecting private property and capitalism, communists oppose that and seek to collectivize production and distribution.
Tankies aren't really communists if you actively defend Putin, Iran and modern-day Russia
I mainly dislike lemmy.world because it’s Americans owning the place like usual.
Ironically LW is run by a European team (the top admin is Dutch), but still communities like politics@lemmy.world are only for US news...
Just a warning: Piefed has a lot of shady built in hidden karma. Like you posting “this” or a gif only detracts from your karma. They also block you from downvoting if you downvote more than you upvote. It’s not really free speech at all.
As far as I understand, lemmy instances are sort of a community with communities inside. It seems that each isntance has their own like minded userbase. .world has basich mix of everyone due to popularity, .ml holds strong beliefs politically, blahaj.zone is more progressive in gender identity, piefed.social is more mainstream decentralized instance. And of course there are more I didn't mention.
I am on dbzer0 because I am into selfhosting and sailing the seas. It fits me well. Tied to one instance doesn't stop me from engaging on other instances except the ones I blacklisted.
Check the instances and their descriptions and find something that fits you.
db0 and sh. are my viiiibbbbbee
db0 wants to ban feddit communities because they believe that mods not letting death threats pass there in moderation passes as zionism.
This is the kind of statement that is so far at the extremes of both vague and unhinged that it's not so much that I don't believe you as that I would need to see some kind of evidence of multiple specific and unambiguous incidents. TLDR; you can't just say that kinda thing with 0 receipts.
I don't know how to get a generic link to a post so it opens on your instance. But the proof they're tying to use is laughable. Source: https://feddit.org/post/25634446
I honestly can't tell if this is just my ADHD or if this is just an overly dense philosophical argument that in true internet fashion has just gotten completely out of hand. There's no damn good reason for anyone who will never physically set foot in any of these places to have opinions on this topic of that complexity or intensity.
Like my opinion on the topic is mostly that my country should definitely stop giving Israel weapons and probably send the Palestinians some food water and medical supplies. Other than that I'm not personally going to impose my opinions overtop those of people who actually live there.
The answer to imperialism isn't trying to align your views with whichever side you've decided is the most right then loudly philosophizing about it from thousands of miles away. It's the kind of thing you can't undo, you can only stop doing it. The answer to imperialism is to shut the fuck up and stop meddling. Now the internet as a whole isn't great at that (especially not the shutting up part), and I don't think I'll ever find a space that's free of it. So I'm just gonna go with the place that seems as agnostic on the most issues as possible and try not to overthink shit that's, in the end, none of my damn business.
Honestly I have my own political beliefs about the attrocities committed by Israel, but that's not the issue here. I think it harms the fediverse in cases like this when the choice of their members gets restricted by universally banning these communities on your instance. This vote is also framed in a certain way and anything but democratic in that sense. Theres not a pro and con argument list or a neutral statement. The db0 admin just doesn't like the way feddit mods moderate so he framed it in a way that legitimizes him banning these communities. But honestly this is not worth my god damn time. I only know if I was on db0 I'd move to another instance
In addition to being a themed community of communities, instances also have different federation/defederation policy. dbzer0 is defederated from Lemmygrad.ml, for example, while being federated with Hexbear.net. There's also the differences on how upvoting and downvoting is treated among instances, with some disabling downvotes and some disabling voting altogether.
db0 is also pro-GenAI, which seems unfortunate to me.
You can do what I do and just block the genAI art comms.
No harm, no foul, I just am not interested in the content.
While I can't say for certain, I would strongly suspect that a lot of the people in those comms are self hosting their LLMs/Image generators, if that makes you feel any better.
But uh, there are a variety of nuanced stances on LLMs and such, amongst the other m@teys I've talked with.
Its... not like we're all super duper no holds barred put AI in everything advocates.
A lot of us are... quite a lot closer to 'Butlerian Jihad NOW', lol.
At the risk of starting an argument (sorry)... I see any use of GenAI as support and endorsement of the technology, and I see the technology as a systemic attack on creative work by real people. It's stealing the results of hard work of people to produce derivative work with the intent of replacing those same people. Thus, while self-hosting does remove some concerns related to big corporations, I think it still empowers them by supporting the tech they deal in.
I do block dedicated GenAI communities, but it's more widespread than that, showing up in unrelated comms, being used to generate community icons and banners.
And of course an instance isn't homogenous with regard to its users, and I don't condemn people for using db0, but IIRC the host of db0 is supportive of GenAI, which is what I primarily referred to, and what steers the direction the instance is taking.
I see any use of GenAI as support and endorsement of the technology, and I see the technology as a systemic attack on creative work by real people.
I mean personally, I do as well.
But... it's Pandora's box.
You can't uninvent it, basically.
We could theoretically limit or heavily regulate its further development, but again realistically, with how much money and power tech corporations have, how much influence they have over lawmakers...
... unless you're gonna go find an 'AI' datacenter and put salt or sulfuric acid or something into the cooling loops, no you probably can't really do much to effectively impede it.
I do block dedicated GenAI communities, but it's more widespread than that, showing up in unrelated comms, being used to generate community icons and banners.
I've also seen a bit of this, and I also find it annoying... though 99% of the time that I see something like this, its some kind of like cryptobro, when lambo, diamond hands, type person.
I don't know that it like, stems or comes from GenAI comms on db0.
but IIRC the host of db0 is supportive of GenAI, which is what I primarily referred to, and what steers the direction the instance is taking.
Well I don't know precisely what db0's (the admin) exact stance on GenAI is, but I do know that db0 the instance and community has a highly involved and active goverance model for instance rules and associations. There are fairly often major discussions and votes on a good deal of issues... as opposed to many other instances that basically just come down to the whims of the admin + a clique of powermods.
db0 themself has done more than any other instance admin I am aware of to make it so that if the community itself opposes their own personal opinion, they'll adopt the community's opinion and simply be an executor/facilitator of it.
I've also seen a bit of this, and I also find it annoying... though 99% of the time that I see something like this, its some kind of like cryptobro, when lambo, diamond hands, type person.
I'm pretty sure some of the most popular communities on db0 use GenAI art for banner and icon - checking now, the banner art for piracy, ADHD memes, anarchism, yepowertrippingbastards appear to be GenAI (admittedly fewer than I expected), and the icon for the instance itself is suspicious.
Unfortunately though, that's also not a problem exclusive to db0, and with the nature of federation it's kinda inescapable when most people don't care, unless I want to lock myself to niche communities.
I will also note, I believe db0 is hosting or participating in some kind of distributed GenAI network called The Horde, so it's not just individual community members' opinions, it's an organizational endorsement of GenAI.
A crowdsourced distributed cluster of image generation workers and text generation workers for generating AI media.
Free & Open Source
Powered by volunteers running open source software on their own hardware. Start generating now!
Community Driven
Join the Haidra community by becoming a worker and share your GPU power.
Distributed Power
Harness the collective GPU power of volunteer workers for your generations.
No Lock-in
Use any compatible client or build your own with our open REST APIs.
Yep, so its a bunch of volunteers, running their own local hardware, but also linking it together, to provide a kind of mutual usage network for generating images.
And yep, db0 themself is pretty involved in this.
EDIT: (As best as I can tell, I've not like, talked to them about it myself, or been involved in those comms.)
... but you can't singly host a distributed network.
You can participate in it, architect it, but... the whole concept is that it is distributed, localized.
You know, like Lemmy, as opposed to Reddit or BlueSky, which are centralized.
So... this is what I met by more nuanced stances on LLMs/Neuralnet image generation.
More or less, this is like the rules that govern something like a private torrent tracker and network, but applied to GenAI.
So its an alternative way of providing distributed GenAI capabilities to those who contribute to other people also being able to have those capabilities.
As opposed to the essentially totally black box governance model of a random person getting an API token for a corporate AI network, that has massive negative externalities in that those are run on giant server farms that do things like massively run up local/regional power and water usage/costs, where you can safely presume the corpo networks are entirely harvesting all the data you send in to them.
You can be I guess 100% against the entire concept of GenAI, but see my previous point of it's Pandora's Box, you can't uninvent it, its not going to go away because you don't like it and think its bad.
... and to be clear, there are a plethora of valid reasons to be critical of it, legitimate problems.
But, a more practical and effectice way to address those things is to attempt to provide an alternate, more equitable, more transparent paradigm for its use.
But, a more practical and effectice way to address those things is to attempt to provide an alternate, more equitable, more transparent paradigm for its use.
Yeah, the issue is that I simply disagree, and consider the usage of models trained on data obtained without permission to be immoral, and thus unless the model is trained entirely on data supplied with consent (which is supposedly implausible), and thus people facilitating and/or promoting the usage of such to be... ethically unaligned me, and thus I don't want to associate with them
All that said, I also don't want to argue or try to convince you here, and want to thank you for being civil in the discussion
Absolutely fair!
Yes, we certainly can stop and not go into this any further.
Thank you as well for being polite and civil!
EDIT: One thing that we do have on db0 the instance is a kind of 'disengage' concept, more or less a kind of 'safe word' for just saying, hey, i dont wanna talk about this anymore, please stop, and i'll stop as well.
I joined this one because the main one was defederating a whole bunch of pirate ones and that makes no goddamn sense. thanks 👍
mods will be like hey let's make it so our users can't access stuff. that makes sense. I bet that's what they want. they want to not have access to things. they think it's good
smart and federal
.world is squeamish about upsetting corpos because they're the biggest instance.
Personally I’d really like to see more servers physically located in privacy and free-speech friendly places like Switzerland and Iceland (for example). I’m not sure why you’d want to have your social media hosted anywhere else.
main@sh.itjust.works they are very new-user friendly, diaspora: idfk its dead, mastodon: official instance, peertube: peertube.wtf with official app to do federation stuff
peertube: peertube.wtf with official app to do federation stuff
I assume you can login into it via GrayJay as well
never used grayjay to begin with, used different apps for different fediverse stuff
Second for sh.itjust.works
I picked this server cause the name was funny and it was large enough that I expected not to run into small-server problems.
I stayed because I have not run into any small-server problems and our admin is a very cool guy.
Blahaj.zone we're chill AF here
I don't like that you can't downvote, though.
Exactly. I look at downvotes on articles as a kind of fact curator. If an article has 50/50, you know it’s gotta be wrong.
Discussion of an article's accuracy is what the comments are for; downvotes are a pretty bad indicator of this as they're largely used to indicate agreement with the post's title (which may include disagreeing with it's accuracy, message, vibe, spelling, etc.)
People also just downvote stuff they disagree with. If you use the downvotes on a post or comment as the indicator of whether it's correct or not you'll just end up believing only the things the majority of the users believe are true, instead of using evidence or any kind of facts.
9 day old account on ml. Stop trolling
One day this account will be 2 years old and its posts will be recognized for their greatness. But until then, it'll just be a sockpuppet troll account. Very sad.
I've only been outside of Hexbear (where there also are no downvotes) for a week and I hate having downvotes. Instead of people replying to something they disagree with with evidence and counterarguments, people just downvote and move on. They really shouldn't be used to downvote comments people disagree with (because that just promotes groupthink), ideally they'd just be used to downvote spam and low effort stuff; but moderators can take care of that, so what's the point?
I prefer that the community have some say in deciding what comments are objectionable rather than relying on mods for every little thing.
If something is objectional you should say something about it, it's one thing for bots and spam, but if you see someone posting an unforced error, you should tell them they're wrong
not to invoke leddit, but you should be able to communicate with other human beings
Okay, so the community should be able to reply to the objectionable comments with the reasons why they think they're objectionable. All downvotes do is let people shut down the conversation without even thinking.
Sometimes comments are poor without being worthy of a conversation about it. The commenter can always ask if they see downvotes and are confused as to why.
In that situation those low value comments that aren't explicitly rulebreaking just proceed to get no upvotes and are functionally the same as a comment that got downvoted. So there isn't really any value gained from having downvotes in this scenario, while they provide negative value in other scenarios.
To be clear, one comment having 1-2 upvotes and a reply to it having a dozen or more upvotes gets that across just fine, it just requires the reply in the first place.
Ah, well that would explain why Voyager kept giving errors every time I tried
Wait what that's not a thing on blahaj??
Nor on Hexbear, or a few other large instances. In the case of Hexbear and Blahaj, it's to protect queer users from being unfairly downvoted, as well as to encourage discussion over silent downvoting.
OHHH THAT'S why Voyager gives me an error.
Sigh, these are the things that might drive people away from Lemmy and Piefed. Lemmy devs are tankies, Piefed devs are weirdly puritanical, and instances won't tell you they don't allow downvotes.
I really wish Blahaj was federated with Hexbear :(
Are you though? Not as enlightened as you may think.
Are you high?
Responding to someone saying 'you're not as enlightened as you think' with some drug sitgmatisation, on point
come down from your ivory tower bud
Moderation should be honest, and without a clear set of rules with an honest way to check it, the fediverse won't displace the big social medias that themselves lose users because of dishonest moderation.
What the fuck are you on about?
This feels like you're vagueposting about something entirely unrelated.
Nobody knows wtf you're talking about mate. You just sound unhinged.
Nobody gives a shit what you, or any of your other bodies, thinks, mate.
Ah, okay, you're unhinged. Have a good day. Blocked
How is .blahaj.zone's moderation dishonest?
you have never said why it's not as they claim. How did blahaj lemmy hurt you?
Even for things we're excited about, truncating the y-axis is never okay 😕
https://lemmy.sdf.org/has some pretty unique content, even from the normal fediverse. I like the users there. See funhole@lemmy.sdf.org and unix_surrealism@lemmy.sdf.org
When its up peertube.wtf is great for discovering peertube videos. I use it to find things to post on peertube@lemmy.world
I like to spend my time on piefed. Its my favorite "threadiverse" software atm. I spent snd contributed code to lemmy for about a year but jumped over to piefed. Its fun and fedi interop was better at the time.
For everything else fediverse.party for fun software and instances!
Just browse Join-Lemmy and pick an instance that sticks out and you like the vibe of, with good local communities and decent federation. The only one I truly recommend avoiding is Lemmy.world, due to its size and moderation on some larger communities.
I think the best thing is to choose one and hang around and if you like where you land then go forward but once you learn how to look them over and what makes them different then evaluate and decide on one and make a new account that becomes your main.
Sound advice
I would recommend use https://join-lemmy.org/it suggest a generic instance and also lets search specific instances.
Hard to take that list seriously.
World is missing, and ML, Hexbear, and Lemmygrad are the top promoted servers. What a joke.
.world is missing because it's way too big, and Grad is below other servers like dbzer0, sh.itjust.worlks, Blahaj.zone, Lemmy.ca, programming.dev, etc. Hex and .ml are up high because, like it or not, they are highly active non-.world instances.
What you have wrote is false, and you know it.
I live in the PNW. I picked an instance in the PNW. Sometimes I see local news, and often I read comments from people within a few hour drive. It's nice to have a small, local community here, while still having access to the rest of the world together. So I guess recommend picking the largest instance in your region if you don't have any other preferences.
I had no idea this was a local instance. Neat!
The one I am on is from that area, even though I'm in the upper midwest. I just picked it because they don't block anything, didn't defederate any communities or anything. Hands off, fast enough, here to stay they say.
One that is not blocked by a lot of other instances....
My own! I feel like I run it pretty well, I certainly trust myself with my data than others. But otherwise, id probably recommend lemmy.zip or piefed.social
I’m leaning towards running my own too.
For someone entirely new to this, please ELI5 why it matters?
Entirely at random I signed up at feddit.uk
Does it mean I'm walled off from specific content? Am I in a dead part of the fediverse? And how do I change if I am.
Okay, so it matters for a few reasons.
-
Instances have different rules. So you can banned by your own instances local admins for things you might not get banned for on other instances.
-
If you wanted to make your own community, you'd automatically be hosting it on feddit.uk, so that matters to a degree when it comes to the local culture there.
-
Instances have their own blocklists. So your instance might be blocking (defederating) another instance that has a lot of users. Or it might just as likely be blocked by another instance. This isn't the case for feddit.uk, which maintains wide federation.
Feddit.uk specifically is a UK based lemmy. If you look up the local communities, you can see that is the geographical/cultural focus.
It doesn't. Pick whatever instance and if another catches your eye make an account there as well. You don't have to limit yourself to one account on one instance. I started on feddit.de, then lemm.ee now hexbear and use this account to see some posts I wouldn't from hexbear since they have more of a safe space mentality than this instance
In this same boat, thank you for asking this
I'd like to plug the fediverse servers that I'm hosting for the traveller / digital nomad niche over at keyboard vagabond
https://piefed.keyboardvagabond.com/
https://mastodon.keyboardvagabond.com/
Why are there so many people coming here allegedly from this chart starting with this year
For me at least, reddits ban bot has gotten way too sensitive and the reviewers don't actually read the appeal. I got a permaban for "threatening violence" just saying the word "kill" in context of a cat hunting birds, tried to appeal and immediately got a notification that the ban won't be reversed, because they obviously didn't read the comment that triggered the ban.
So now I'm here
+1 for Hexbear, check it out if .world is too liberal for you. This place really feels like reddit, but somehow even more Dem apologist
+1 Hexbear if you like increasingly abstracted inside jokes about owls and beans
Totally organic account right here, definitely not an alt
You have a🔻in your username. That makes you a "tankie" to a huge portion of the people who hate communists, too. We're both going to get sent to the same camps.
Wait, you don't support Hamas?
Well yeah it does, you're on lemmy.world which sometimes has a lot of Zionist apologia. In most online political spaces, the🔻symbol is a reference to videos from Hamas where they would overlay a similar red triangle over an Israeli soldier/tank/military target before it gets hit.
I guess it's still germane to my point, though. If you do think Hamas is cool because you hate the genocidal regime of Israel, that makes you a "tankie" or at least comparable to one in the eyes of most anticommunists. Functionally, the people who actually will fight "tankies" (as in communists) area also the people who will put you in a camp for being anti-zionist or having other left wing positions.
That's ok, forget the red triangle. That's fine. I'm saying that you're loudly voicing your opposition to "tankies" but if you despise all genocidal regimes you are a tankie yourself.
Did you read my comments above? I explained the reasoning. If you're anti-zionist you're a "tankie" to most anticommunists, they don't care that you consider yourself different to the other kinds of leftists. At the end of the day we'll be sent to the same camp.
If you subscribe to a more specific definition of "tankie" it's probably better to just say what you mean explicitly.
Can we slow down? I don't really get what you disagree with me about.
No, you got it backwards. I'm saying that your positions make you a tankie because you oppose genocide. I'm praising you!
Hold on, another point here: so are Maoists and communists that strictly take the Soviet side of the Sino-Soviet split not tankies?
What are you talking about?
There was a genocide in Tiananmen Square?
As a Jew, I feel so safe for my future know that genocide as a term has been diminished to "When the government kills people".
Say, on a completely unrelated note, did you know that 23% of American adults 18-39 think the Shoah was fabricated or exaggerated?
Also, I guess genocide also includes people resisting genocide, apparently.
did you know that 23% of American adults 18-39 think the Shoah was fabricated or exaggerated?
That's horrifying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#United_States
According to a 2020 survey of US youth by the Claims Conference, 23% of US adults aged 18–39 said they believed the Holocaust was a myth, had been exaggerated, or were not sure
Also, I guess genocide also includes people resisting genocide, apparently.
I feel like the volume of nonsense that user spewed in this thread really overshadowed the fact that he called the Palestinian resistance genocidal lmao.
Okay, you said "tankies are defined by their defense of genocide" but then say that there was a massacre in Tiananmen Square.
For one, that's false. No massacre has ever taken place in Tiananmen Square, and if you could find me a source that says otherwise I'd welcome it.
But also, massacre is not the same as genocide. There must be something else you're talking about.
How do you feel about the Kent State Genocide?
What about the genocide of Ashli Babbitt?
You should know, the origin of the term "tankie" is related to Khruschev sending in tanks to squash a fascist movement in Hungary in 1956, way before the 1989 protests in Beijing.
"Tienaman square"
"Genocide"
Liberals really do just say things
Liberals when anyone disagrees with them: "you're mentally disabled"
Hamas is genocidal
me when I make shit up
Honestly I don't think this person is saying Hamas is genocidal. I think he's very confused and is really insistent that tankies love genocide, so he was trying to like, pre-move me. But as far as I can tell the implied genocidal regime he's opposed to is China, not Hamas. Obviously that opens a whole other can of worms but he won't reply to my last comment.
"Fuck all genocidal regiems. Does that need to be said explicitly?" as a reply to "Wait, you don’t support Hamas?" definitely sounded like calling Hamas genocidal, as did doubling down by putting "all" in bold after you tried to get him to agree Hamas was cool. China only came up later in the thread, as far as I can tell.
But if he doesn't think that, he can easily clarify.
I read it as "you're right that I support Hamas but I'm not a tankie because I oppose all genocides, not just the one in Gaza" which I admit is also a non-sequitur but not as much of a non-sequitur as also calling Hamas genocidal. But we're definitely reading tea leaves here.
By insisting that the red triangle in his display name is related to his fictional lore and not Hamas, I think he's trying to say that he opposes Hamas as a "genocidal regiem". Which is why he thinks you're "insisting" that he "likes genocide" when you continue to state that you think he supports Hamas.
Yeah, maybe, but I think what he meant by that was that I kept insisting he's a tankie but he believes tankie = genocide supporter.
Anyway, I do think his thing of specifying that tankies are defined by our defense of China's genocide specifically is interesting. I already pointed out that that excludes Maoists which I can't wait to see his reply to.
China's """""genocide""""" lmao. It will be interesting if he replies to you, but based on what he has said so far I'm not expecting much of a useful or well-informed answer.
If he reads this thread before replying, I'm gonna give him a secret hint: don't just assume that because Chairman Mao was Chinese that means Maoists are pro-China! It was actually a trick question! To answer this one halfway correctly, you might have to do at least 2 minutes of reading. To answer it very correctly, it may be necessary to get way more educated on political subjects before running one's mouth online. I recommend reading Parenti and starting at Blackshirts and Reds! I believe in you!
He was absolutely calling Hamas genocidal
Since when was the Palestinian resistance to genocide genocidal themselves? What kind of hasbara is this?
Lol. These are the people calling you tankies
Anyone know why the recent spike? That's not negligible.
https://lemmy.world/post/43035743/22099833Apparently old forum software was updated to use the federation and all the old users got tallied up and added. Also people flocking from Reddit and X too.
Because reddit moderation has become utterly unbearable, insufferable bad.
I've been using BBSs, newsgroups, MIRC, ICQ, a million ass forums and social media for almost 40 years now.
I've never been banned from anywhere on the net (and before).
And yet in the last three months I've been temp banned 3 times on reddit. All for their AI moderation systems misunderstanding Australian colloquialisms as threatening violence.
It's utter bullshit.
People are leaving reddit as a result.
"Toss some shrimp on the barbie"
What? Is this Aussie for kill CEOs?? Banned.
Hexbear, pretty chill community that is overtly pro-LGBTQ and inclusive of all kinds of leftists.
😂
Rude and uncalled for
If I wanted to argue with tankies I'd just go back to Twitter
@RalphFurley @mathemachristian how though? It's not like there's anyone but bots there
As in Hexbear or Twitter? I don't think there's a lot of bots active on Hexbear. I think we have 3 total? There's the Amber bot, the Volcel Police bot, and the one that replies to comments with twitter, youtube, and reddit links with alternative frontends.
Rude
Thanks
Go for a smaller European one, the one I’m on is in Finland. Me, I like Finland, the fins are sexy. And why only use one instance, you can have a user on several, that way you can downvote your own posts and discuss with a person that is as intelligent as yourself (mainly because it actually is you!) I mean: you can try out the audience and communities, which are different on all servers.
Well, it depends on what they want. There are different platforms in the fediverse that work very differently. Mastodon and Lemmy/PieFed can interact with each other, but it's always painful. For Lemmy/PieFed I'd recommend they look for an instance that has a local feed that fits their interests. Ideally an instance that is federated with most large instances, otherwise it gets a little too boring.
Liked the name.
Whatever ones you like. Newcomers don't know how each instance behaves until they've experienced it.
Why did you block . world if they've been treating you all right?
I'm sincerely curious for a few reasons
first of all .world is the only instance that would let me in after I tried multiple times joining numerous other instances that would just buffer forever when I was trying to register and they never sent me confirmation emails, .world was the only one that would let me in.
But now when I make posts and comments in .world communities, moderators have been removing my posts & comments, they say because I belong to.world 🤯
Please make this make sense.
And look, here we are in a .world community. Let's see how long the moderators let this comment of mine remain 🙄
After blocking hexbear and .world,
How are you seeing my comments, though? I'm on .ml
Blocking instances blocks their communities, not their users. Further, Lemmy.world is already defederated from Hexbear, blocking it does nothing in that case.
Okay now that we solved that mystery, can anybody figure out why some . world moderators are removing my posts & comments and their reason is that I belong to .world?? How does that make sense? My only guess is that I feel like I am being discriminated against because maybe they don't like me for one reason or another, and they're making up specious nonsensical reasons for deleting my things.
it seems like lemmy.today is decent, especially since there are no blocked instances. i moved from lemmy.sdf.org recently since their servers were down too often.
especially since there are no blocked instances
That's not a good sign tbh...
well i could block people/insance if i want, on my account level. unless it's a moderation problem i prefer having the server not blacklisting certain accounts/instances based on their view.
It kind of is when you are a person that values their own agency and don't want your content to be curated by someone else.
It's not about you. It's about the type of content that will appear on the server, even if you personally block it.
Yeah, I didn't expect the admin of a filter-bubble to understand.
Look, I absolutely understand that some people want to make their own choices about moderation. I was the same, until I existed as trans on Twitter for too long.
My point isn't about blocking right wing transphobia stans.
My point is that if they don't block anyone, you get CSAM, you get Nazi's, you get ethnic cleansing advocates etc. And that's why an empty defederation list is a red flag. I'm explicitly not taking about instances that don't block many other instances. I'm talking about instances that don't block any.
I'm curious, where are the nazis on lemmy?
As someone who signed up to sh.just.works because they didn't defederate a lot: the defederation can be worth it.
When we federated with hexbear, they came in like a plague of locusts. They were constantly trolling, making our local comms unusable, and generally being dicks. This went on for 4 days before the hexbear admins defederated from us to avoid the embarassment of us defederating from them.
I'd rather deal with that myself and block instances and users at my own discretion.
I can understand defederation from threads and like CSAM adjacent stuff, but that really should be it. Everything more feels patronising. Of course I understand that some communities are "safe spaces" or what ever, so for them it makes sense. But I'd never recommend those simply because I wouldn't recommend lemmy to anyone that isn't able to make their own decisions regarding the content they want to see.
The thing you need to realise is that when someone signs up for a safe space instance, they are making their own decision about the content they wish to see.
There was a server hiccup for about a day or so once in the last 2 years, but I've had no other issues.
I'm torn between wanting to tell people, and trying to keep it to myself to hold off the enshitification for as long as possible.
Huh well I wonder why making your space inhospitable for leftists would attract astroturfers and shills?
Is anyone actually saying those things or are you exaggerating the positions of leftists who wouldn't want Western imperialist powers to be able to topple foreign governments?
Yes, that is me defending Russia's invasion. And as you can see, my argument there isn't that Russia has a right to do it, the argument is that I think NATO is a tool of US hegemony and Russia is doing my work for me by fighting NATO. See how that's different from what you wrote? Is any of what I've said bad faith, or was I exactly right when I said you were exaggerating (or in this case just completely misrepresenting) what leftists say?
It's not about what specific words you used. Read my previous comment again, I didn't even quote the "god given" part.
The issue is you fundamentally misunderstood why some leftists aren't pro-Ukraine. It's really not about what Russia has or doesn't have to right to do. That's misrepresenting our point. Just to spell this out clearly: communists don't even believe that the state should exist, let alone that an individual nation-state has a "right" to do anything. That's just not how communists think. Maybe some non-communist anti-imperialists on lemmy.ml do think that way, but AFAIK most are communists.
This is like if a pro-life person said that pro-choice people deliberately want to murder children; you're imposing a certain framework and a set of assumptions that makes your opponents look bad when that's not what they're saying. If you do this consistently, you can just shutter out debate entirely because you can ascribe incorrect or evil positions to your interlocutors until the cows come home.
If you can find an example of a leftist saying that Russia has a literal right to invade Ukraine, then we can talk about that. But that specific reason is, IMO at least, very flawed. That doesn't mean that there aren't other reasons why someone could arrive at that conclusion.
On the topic of sealioning: I won't deny that I'm sealioning because it's pretty obvious that I am. I'll just invite you and everybody who reads this thread to question whether sealioning is actually a bad thing to do in all situations. If there's a community of people making racist comments and a Black person joins that community and politely responds to every person who says something racist, they are sealioning. If a woman joins a misogynistic group of men and politely corrects them every time they say something misogynistic, she's sealioning. And the worst part is, in either of those situations, the minority definitely would be right to not be civil if they desire, but somehow this whole concept of "sealioning" exists to make you out to be a bad guy whether or not you're polite. Like, seriously, I'd be well within my rights to be impolite to you right now for lying about what leftists believe, but I'm being polite instead and that actually becomes a point against me because it becomes "sealioning."
Okay, cool, ignore my last paragraph completely then. Don't think about how the concept of "sealioning" just serves to reinforce whatever the consensus opinions are even if they might be reactionary. Abolitionists were sealioning. Civil rights activists were sealioning. Suffragettes were sealioning.
Thought terminating cliche.
You know what, I think I might take it back. I'm not sure I was sealioning. I didn't even go as far as to ask you for a source or anything. I simply replied to someone else's comment and you joined the conversation by inventing a position I didn't believe in. I haven't even done the thing from the comic here, you're actually the one that butted into the conversation.
Indeed, why did you say that leftists say it's good for Iran to shoot protesters in the face and that Russia has a god given right to invade Ukraine?
"I don't want to have this discussion!" He screams, continuing to reply
So no, no one was actually saying "Iran mass shooting their citizens protesting in the face is actually good" or "Russia has a god-given right to invade their neighbors"
You were just lying.
So, once again, no, no one was actually saying “Iran mass shooting their citizens protesting in the face is actually good” or “Russia has a god-given right to invade their neighbors”
You were just lying.
When called out, they proceeded to shit their pants on semantics instead of engaging with the point.
Are you talking about the comments where they were making actual arguments and you are just spamming reaction images?
I’m not going to feed the fediverse into a statistical model to prove what anyone with eyes can see, because bad-faith clowns don’t really deserve that effort.
"I'm so obviously right that it's bad faith of you to expect me to actually present evidence!"
I don't know which ones are bots. I assume nothing is a bot. I don't know about any bots. I don't know if I've ever seen one. Are you a bot? How do I know?
This is ridiculous. You really can't assume anyone "making radical and dumb far-left calls for revolution" is a bot. By this rule every communist is a bot. You're dismissing very reasonable responses to the state of the world, in which multiple genocides are taking place and it's been exposed that various heads of states and billionaires are pedophiles and have been conspiring together for years. If anything, I'm sure a lot of reasonable people could just as easily say that anyone who wants to just vote away the problems is a bot. Why is that position inherently better than revolution?
Also, what are the "obscure and controversial marginalized groups"? Trans people? The disabled?
if I assumed everyone was a bot, I wouldn't be here talking. it would be a waste of my goddamn time. it would be boring
if I assume that everyone with stupid political views was a bot, then I'd just be an idiot
Corpo trash can't stand wrongthink
I recommend MULTIVERSE to any new otherkin/xenogender/plural fediverse users, or anyone who has antirealist sympathies.
Lemmy.ml ofc. "Tankie" instance made by the actual lemmy devs.
I joined lemmy.ml after the reddit APIcalypse because it was the largest one at the time, about 3 years ago. The "tankie fascist" thing has been very interesting, I see it as a very effective tool for groupthink people to out themselves on. I'm a soft-leaning socialist if anything, not very politically involved, but the angry emotional groupthink people actually gives zero fucks about what I think. They just see .ml, decide in their own heads what I think and what "team" I'm on, and call me a tankie fascist! It's hilarious actually, I don't even have to say anything and those type of thinkers just present themselves for me to block. And thank god for how easy it is to curate Lemmy with blocks!
Over time it has become a very cool place with many views and interesting people from different paths of life discussing everything quite civilly.
I especially like the meta posts about inter-instance squabbling. They're goldmines for my block list.
I mean, I'm an 'anarkiddie' according to actual tankies, but I don't broadly discriminate against .ml users, most of them are great!
... but, a lot of .ml powermods do things like declare the Xi Poohbear meme to be inherently racist, even though it was literally created by Chinese netizens.
Or, god help you if you attempt to discuss the Holodomor.
… but, a lot of .ml powermods do things like declare the Xi Poohbear meme to be inherently racist, even though it was literally created by Chinese netizens.
That's not a valid reason to think it's not racist for Westerners to use it, especially when the OG meme was specifically about one picture where Xi and Obama were walking together and looked a little bit like Winnie and Tigger. For one, Chinese people are just as capable of saying racist stuff as anyone else, but also language and memes transform when transported to different cultures. Xi Jinping bears little resemblance to Winnie the Pooh; the fact that online anticommunists really want to die on the hill that they should be allowed to compare the president of China to a yellow bear reflects poorly on them.
Or, god help you if you attempt to discuss the Holodomor.
Yeah, if you say the typical line among online anticommunists that the USSR committed a genocide via famine in Eastern Europe you'll get a similar reaction to the one you'd get if you went and said as such in a history department at any university. That is, outside of the Baltic states, Ukraine, and particularly reactionary parts of North America. From the way you directly wrote "Holodomor/Holocaust numbers" in this comment it appears that you subscribe to the double genocide theory and think that those 2 events are comparable.
sigh
I'm not going to have this discussion, again.
I'm tired.
Thank you for proving my point that some .ml users get very very touchy about these two topics.
Yeah because you're demonstrably incorrect on both counts. If you don't wanna talk about it, don't bring it up.
... says the one week old account that only exists to pick fights and do nothing other than argue ideology.
Come on buddy, its possible to say something and reference an example of a controversial/touchy topic, as an example of being a controversial/touchy topic, without wanting to engage in that controversy.
Oops, hexbear just happened to link to this page. Whoopie. I guess "it was on there front page".
Surely they're in good faith.
… says the one week old account that only exists to pick fights and do nothing other than argue ideology.
My main account is @FunkyStuff@hexbear.net, it's not my fault the biggest Lemmy instance defederated us pre-emptively as a last resort.
These are the words of someone who knows they're wrong but are to stubborn to admit it, lol.
even though it was literally created by Chinese netizens.
Yeah I'm sure if MAGA types were still calling Obama "Tigger" to this day, you'd insist it wasn't racist?
Good luck with that!
Fellow tankie fascist here! Don't try too hard to appeal to the fediverse, you know we have a mission to spread Marx's word every waking hour to people that will probably have influence in the real world at Lemmy.world.
I don't even know what Marx said! lol
.ml is my preferred instance too because you get the latest updates first, you get access to all the same mainstream PieFed and Lemmy communities, and you get to choose whether to interact with communist communities like Lemmygrad or Hexbear.
I wouldn't recommend it to most people though cause most people can't handle communists. Most would prefer conservatives, even.
And the downside is that certain people will block you or judge you for your instance, even if you were here years before the other instances came to be.
Lemmy.ml, iirc, stopped being promoted a couple years ago because it's kind of the experimental instance of Lemmy. The developers of this instance themselves shared the idea for new users is not to be here, and use other instances to free up a bit of the server resources, but older accounts like mine, well, we are still around.
stopped being promoted a couple years ago because it's kind of the experimental instance of Lemmy
No, it's because your admins are genocide deniers that want Ukraine to be taken over by Russia.
Most of Lemmy doesn't want to be associated with that. Hell, that's a large part of why PieFed was developed
Except that the people who started suggesting to avoid pushing .ml were the Lemmy devs, the instance admins, and that is what this user is referencing. Exactly for the reasons described.
This was back during the surge from Reddit in 2023.
"Most of Lemmy" was made up of communists before then.
Hell, that's a large part of why PieFed was developed
I like when people don't act coy about this being direct motivation so thanks.
Great! I found the announcement at this thread, if you want to know the argued reasons for this policy.