That’s why it’s nice not to use lemmy.world
Turns out the admins and community moderators there lie or just don't care, mild shock.
I had no idea this was a thing. Interesting. I can see from liability why this is not something they dont want to touch, being a general purpose instance.
I think lemmy/fediverse needs a place where if you try and subscribe to something blocked, you get a post/page explaining why they did the thing. Its going to confuse new users otherwise.
IIRC when it was implemented in the first place, it seemed like lemmy.world had actually been contacted by some stakeholder with a DMCA-style request, even though the community was not actually originating on lemmy.world. Explaining how federation worked to lawyers didn’t matter much and with .world at the time becoming one of the larger and more visible instances that seemed like the best way to avoid the headaches. Initially they defederated with dbzer0 entirely before developing a way to block just the community.
Considering the bullshit spewed by them to justify their ban of pro-Luigi comments, claiming they consulted a lawyer, I doubt this ever happened.
Is it a known thing that they were dishonest about speaking to a lawyer with that situation?
I've been meaning to change instances and find a new home, if it's known that they lied or mislead their users thats something I'd love to know more about
I've been on a few instances. Was on lemm.ee before owner-fatigue. Joined a couple since, but lemmy.zip felt closer to my old instance than any other. Super transparent admin and one of the reasons I have a monthly donation set up. Got good quality folks here, also!
They did not admit it. I don't think anyone could have have proof they didn't. Only the ridiculousness of their arguments.
Hey Cris,
As someone else said in the comments, https://lemmy.zip/is very nice. You can see the monthly updates from the admins on home@lemmy.zip
And if you want to give Piefed a chance, they have https://piefed.zip/as well
You can import your Lemmy.world settings and blocks from the account settings
Thanks! Previously I had looked for a way to import settings and was unable to find it so that held me up, but I got all my comms imported so I'm gonna give piefed.zip a try as my new instance ☺️
Username is slightly different now, it was probably time for it to change
Oh great, welcome here! 😊 Glad you like it, feel free if you have any questions
Thank you! I really appreciate the help ☺️
Hope you have a lovely day blaze!
I am, hope you too!
*Laughs in lemmy.dbzer0.com*.
The strength of the fediverse is exactly this: don't like what an instance admin is doing? Move to another instance or create your own.
defederates Feddit
You say that as if it's a gotcha, not a boon
Ultimately when you criticize censorship you ultimately get a bunch of Freeze peach libertarians who want to do whatever they want and see moderation as something to fear. That's why it's important to be precise and not speak in broad or abstract terms when criticizing censorship.
If censorship is what's being criticized, it's no different. This is why I tell people not to use db0.
Used to be the first thing we'd suggest but it's just become such a nanny instance that jumps on everyone's shit.
We vote on who we want to defederate from. Our vote threads even have cool pirate themed images and stuff.
They even make less content an event so you can celebrate your own loss?
Things are done there by consent. I see that's something you don't approve of.
Seems kinda hypcritical. Aw well, hivemind gonna hivemind.
Do you even know why the vote to defederate from Feddit came up? It's because there are quite a few Palestinian genocide apologist accounts from there. It's like the Nazi bar problem, you tolerate a few hanging out there and suddenly everyone else leaves while it gets full of them. I'd rather not hear that shit myself.
That would require understanding or research when they just want to use a gotcha
Imagine being so Reddit-/.world-brained that you think of instance democracy as "hivemind gotta hivemind"
So long as communities based on a common theme exist online, there WILL be a hivemind. Much like how we are not immune to propaganda, online communities are not immune to bandwagoning.
This is far from e.g. Mastodon-like mob behaviour. But I get what you mean
By consent of others, whoever registered there will be forced to that outcome even if they disagree. I fail to see how that's a good thing
You can always go to another instance that wishes to associate with them. The idea of the fediverse is you get to pick the experience you want.
People on the Fediverse need to learn sooner or later that instances don't exist for them to access the rest of the fediverse. They exist to be and host their own communities. From the first perspective defederation might seem antithetical to the purpose of an instance, but from the second perspective it isn't.
It actually makes much more sense.
I think defederation speaks volumes of the quality of the content in the instances that are blocked, wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't want to listen to genocide apologists or astroturfed propaganda. Yes that means the echo chamber gets a little more closed off but it's a prevention of exposure to some bad actors. I certainly wouldn't want to put up with people who do Charlie Kirk or Tucker Carlson moves by "just asking questions" all the time.
If censorship is what’s being criticized, it’s no different.
I hate when censorship comes for people I do like.
I love when censorship comes for people I don't like.
it’s just become such a nanny instance that jumps on everyone’s shit.
Admins are fighting a flood of instances and users more interested in getting attention than participating in the community. Consequently, you'll have power users ballooning the front page with click-bait. You'll have instances choke full of reactionary content specifically intended to bait a flame war. You'll have spammers plugging their own brands or working on behalf of some third party. And you'll have the odd bot-farm or other automated account that's just probing the Fediverse for gaps.
"Ah, but the individual users can always block what they choose"
Sure. Technically. But nobody wants to wake up every morning to a front page that's full of shit. The spammers can bloat your inbox faster than the individual can flush it out. So Admins who step in and do a little public house cleaning - the Nanny work you hate - makes the website cleaner and friendlier for lay users that pop in now and then.
I think the censorship arguments can definitely use some maturing… for example, what would you think of the cultural censorship that occurs with Nazi ideology? Probably want to keep that one, huh?
We don’t necessarily want to do away with censorship, I think. But, I think in the most mature world, it would be healthy to.
Why can’t the boy ask his priest about his most serious doubts regarding god, and receive an honest answer back? Why does the priest say the solution is faith, an inward focused quality to be solved at the individual-level?
There is so much fear, so much bias, so much identity tethered to ideology… sometimes I don’t know if humans can help it. Censorship is a … nuanced issue.
Why can’t the boy ask his priest about his most serious doubts regarding god, and receive an honest answer back?
Why is the priest allowed to just make shit up with nothing more than a bronze aged poorly translated manuscript to back him up? The boy should be able to ask away. It's the priest that should be censored.
There is so much fear, so much bias, so much identity tethered to ideology
Crazy factoid I learned recently. Children younger than 18 are prohibited from participating in religious activities and receiving religious education, even in schools run by religious organizations within China. If you're too young to consent, you're too young to be indoctrinated into a religious tradition.
Why is the priest allowed to just make shit up with nothing more than a bronze aged poorly translated manuscript to back him up? The boy should be able to ask away. It's the priest that should be censored.
I mostly agree-ish. But the priest is really a metaphor for us all. See, the priest happened to make a very human mistake: identify yourself with your ideology. The problem there is rather simple: ideology is unstable, and people compensate for that via censorship. The reason people compensate that way is more complex… it has to do with the relationship they’ve created between themselves and the ideology, codependency. If the ideology is attacked, it feels like a personal attack. If the ideology is destroyed, it can feel like philosophical death. People, like the priest, respond like an act of self-preservation.
We do this with all kinds of topics. Sexism, racism, nazism, … the Right would also do this for communism and socialism. If someone came to you with a thought experiment to explore the merits of racism from an objective perspective, how easy would it be to participate? Not so much, reasonably so, I’d imagine.
You run into this problem where now, you’re concerned with what should and shouldn’t be censored. That sounds great and all… but it really isn’t any better. When humanities experience of the world revolved around their connection with god, it made sense to censor the heathens. Common sense to do so, dare I say. That idea doesn’t look so good in retrospect, but what’s changed now is just the context we live in. What hasn’t changed is the problem.
See, the priest happened to make a very human mistake: identify yourself with your ideology.
I would say the priest's mistake wasn't merely having (or displaying) and ideology, but associating it with mysticism disjointed from any empirical or rational inspection.
You run into this problem where now, you’re concerned with what should and shouldn’t be censored.
Every system has its gray areas and decision points.
That said, I see a lot of anti-censorship absolutists who seem zealously in favor of open debate until... they get swamped by spam posts or drowned out by monied interests or sea-lioned by people who are just being annoying.
Hell, Charlie Kirk died with a debate on his lips. And TPUSA's love of campus debates appears to have died with him.
How do you have a conversation about whether or not the person you're talking to is a human worthy of the dignity of discourse? How do you have a debate with someone who shows up wearing boxing gloves (much less an AR-15)? At some point, censorship is a kindness. It means ending the conversation before we hit the point of fighting words and irreconcilable differences.
I would say the priest's mistake wasn't merely having (or displaying) and ideology, but associating it with mysticism disjointed from any empirical or rational inspection.
That’s a good point, and it’s really what happens at a fundamental level when you decide your ideology is who you are. We all know someone whose identity is defined by what they consume, and we even joke sometimes like “you know if they’re vegan because they never stop talking about it.” It’s not rational to think the sanctity of an ideology should correspond with our own sanctity, but alas we fall into that trap so often as humans. How it happens can be like the frog in boiling water situation.
How do you have a conversation about whether or not the person you're talking to is a human worthy of the dignity of discourse? How do you have a debate with someone who shows up wearing boxing gloves (much less an AR-15)? At some point, censorship is a kindness. It means ending the conversation before we hit the point of fighting words and irreconcilable differences.
300 years ago, someone would have said this instead:
How do you have a conversation about whether or not god exists and we are all subjects to his teaching? How do you debate with someone who shows up wearing the sin of misguided faith?
…all the while, they have no problem discussing the right way to punish your children versus a slave.
300 years from now, we will be the barbarians. We aren’t elevated beyond the issues of our past. We aren’t more “enlightened” now. We’re doing the same stuff as before under the current cultural context. The only difference now is, we have more awareness of this dynamic while typically considering it just a thing of the past.
We should have conversations with people because that helps them understand. Sometimes when we try to convince them to instead just bury the thoughts because they make you a bad person, all we actually do is inspire more curiosity and secrecy. What we certainly don’t do is figure out where these crazy ideas came from in the first place, which means we aren’t exactly solving the problem with any sense of longevity via the approach of censorship.
My take is that we all need to be compassionate to humans by understanding that we are all the same pallet of color, just with different mixes and strokes. We are always becoming something, never a static identity. If you were born Hitler, then you’d have grown up to be Hitler. The real question is, how do we use this knowledge for the betterment of mankind?
We all know someone whose identity is defined by what they consume
I'd be curious to meet someone who wasn't.
300 years ago, someone would have said this instead:
How do you have a conversation about whether or not god exists and we are all subjects to his teaching? How do you debate with someone who shows up wearing the sin of misguided faith?
And the answer, largely, was "you don't, you burn them as a heretic".
Again, this takes us back to the Paradox of Tolerance. We don't want a large movement of deeply religious reactionaries burning people at the stake. So we nip the impulse in the bud by censoring individuals and organizations that propagate hysterical beliefs about The End Times and Eternal Damnation of the Human Soul, as a means of goading them into enforcing a theocratic dictatorship.
In the same vein, we (being the generic Lemmy Liberals) don't like ICE banging down people's doors and dragging them off to concentration camps. And I'd posit we wouldn't be living in this moment if the anti-immigration firebrands had been isolated, muzzled, and neutered before they could propagate a bunch of reactionary misinformation to the general public.
The flip side of this is the Israeli censorship of Palestine, which we (being the generic Lemmy Liberals) generally don't like. Not because we have some contrarian attitude towards censorship generally speaking, but because we believe propagating information about the genocide is a primary means of changing the policies around our country's support of it.
And then there's the flip-flip side, where we (generic Lemmy Libs) are perfectly happy with censoring Chinese/Russian media, if we believe this media is somehow being weaponized to weaken the US or turn the population against itself.
300 years from now, we will be the barbarians. We aren’t elevated beyond the issues of our past. We aren’t more “enlightened” now.
We fucking better be. The notion that modern public education, mass media, and online social discourse hasn't granted us any new useful information is pretty bleak. Sort of raises the question of why human language exists at all, if it's just white noise and nobody is gaining any kind of material benefit.
(Although, check out Peter Watts's Blightsight if you want to chase that rabbit down the hole).
But part of the appeal of censorship is that you're gating your social circle from regression. You're not going back to re-litigate settled issues with any kind of seriousness. You certainly aren't going to tolerate reactionary quarters of your population that try and reinstate them.
My take is that we all need to be compassionate to humans by understanding that we are all the same pallet of color, just with different mixes and strokes.
I would argue that it is cruel to indoctrinate someone else with misinformation and a kindness to spare them from delusion. Similarly, bigotry can turn verbal harm into physical harm very quickly. Even benign communication can be weaponized if it is used to drown people out or deafen them.
So I've got three general categorizes of communication that it would be compassionate to spare them from.
Go make your own "censor free" instance and stop whining, jfc
They'll probably whine when it gets defederated due to hosting libertarian freeze peach trolls. Which often happens with no-defed instances. Either that or they'll learn why defederation is done when they can't keep up and they end up closing their instance down.
Yeah, because piefed.world doesn't defed or censor anyone. Lol
That's a pro in my book considering I had harassment directed my way by a feddit admin.
That's why I run my own instance, dont like others decide what must be censored for me.
Its not that difficult you need a VPS or a public reachable ip at home and docker/podman.
Would love to know how to do that. Like to not be censored.
Yes I use docker, I have documented my effort here https://wiki.gardiol.org/doku.php?id=services%3Alemmy
It was pretty easy and require zero maintenance, just remember to update the containers. Space utiliztion and resources are pretty low, depending on how many communities you subscribe.
Also, I host it at home (with public reachable ip of course)
Thanks for sharing.
Have you had any issues with other, larger instances not federating with you? (just because your small, they don't want to risk being spammed by trolls/bots/etc)
This would be my only concern in hosting my own instance.
Never had such an issue
Much appreciated. Seems very detailed
Just an odour question from me because I don’t know. How does federation work? Do you need to specifically federate with everyone or just those you don’t want to federate with
Its automatic. You can defederate, bit federation is utomatic.
So you run your own instance and federate with other instances as you please? How are you hosting it / is it doable via docker?
Rad, tyvm. I've got a proxmox server at home running wireguard so I'll give it a hoon on that. Thanks again.
Thanks will look into this.
Yes I use docker, I have documented my effort here https://wiki.gardiol.org/doku.php?id=services%3Alemmy
It was pretty easy and require zero maintenance, just remember to update the containers. Space utiliztion and resources are pretty low, depending on how many communities you subscribe.
Also, I host it at home (with public reachable ip of course)
But so you can decide for others what you want to censor for them on your instance. Because I can name a few things that you would probably want ASAP removed from your instance, if someone posted such things.
Everyone would do the same if they personally were exposed to legal liability.
I highly suspect that they’re the sole user on their instance. That’s fairly common for people who just want to avoid the headache of dealing with rogue admins. Just spin up an instance, and then your server only federates with the instances and communities that you directly interact with. No need to worry about the “things you would want removed ASAP” unless you’re the one seeking out those things.
I am my only user, so...
It's been 2 years, what made you dig that up?
Because nothing has changed?
People have had 2 years to switch to another instance. Lemmy.zip, used by OP, is nice.
Personally I think if LW wants to ban a certain kind of content, more power to them. But they should be transparent about it.
If they've said they'll unban pirate content, then pirate content should be allowed. If they want it banned, fine, but make a statement clarifying that that is the case.
OP is doing good work by pointing this out.
We wouldn't want anyone forgetting, now would we?
People don't want to switch.
Then they're the same as the Reddit users who refuse to move. It's not hard to move to a different Lemmy/PieFed instance, that's our strength. You can export your account data and import it to your new instance so your subscriptions transfer.
But your upvotes and comment history don't.
Sure but IDK that just doesn't seem important. That's the same issue we had switching from Reddit to Lemmy. My Reddit posts aren't gone and neither are my programming.dev posts, I'm here on retrolemmy.com now and I'm fine leaving my old account behind. If I need to edit an old post then I'll open programming.dev but that doesn't bother me.
IDK that just doesn’t seem important.
I’m fine leaving my old account behind.
Then we have different viewpoints. I'm very much NOT ok with leaving my old account behind.
If AI hadn't banned me on reddit, I'd be much happier over there. I'd have my old account, and all my post history going back 10 years. Which by this point would be more like 12 or 13 years.
It's not important to you, but it's important to me. Just because youhave an opinion doesn't make it "the right way". Everyone can have different opinions, and thats ok.
Literally 3 months after I got here, and started figuring out how the fediverse worked, I was calling for changes. Quite frankly, what I thought the fediverse was is a lot cooler than what it actually is.
I can post a picture here from pixelfed, but it's no different than posting a picture from imgur.
So the account history is all I have to look back at.
Would you really be happier in the den of nazis, bots and shills?
I'm passing by this discussion and just inserting myself in here to say: I'd be happier if reddit was more like it was when I joined - when it wasn't the den of nazis, bots, and shills. Although the admins have always been libertarians^[:hissssss:] and protective of the fascist point of view… but at least in the old days it wasn't as pervasive.
But that aside, I agree with you in general.
Everyone can have different opinions, and thats ok.
Wrong. My opinions are the only correct ones. ;-)
For some of us, that’s not a bad thing. I tend to burn my account and make a new one every year or two, just to minimize the accumulation of potential doxxing material.
I also tend to swap things like my specific location when I talk about where I live. Pretty sure on just this one account I have comments saying I live in Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. I’ll even change how I talk about my job. I work in live entertainment, but that’s a very broad category. I change details like how many seats my venue has, what my specific job is, (for instance, on this account I’m an audio technician), what my work history is like, what kinds of shows I tend to work, etc… All of them have grains of truth, (for instance, I have worked as an audio technician in the past, so I know what the job entails), but none are truly correct and all are red herrings in some way.
Well tbf idk what you expect people on other instances to do about it lol
Then admins have no reasons to change anything
People want access to the defederated instances, on lemmy.world.
People also wanted API access on Reddit in 2023, and here we are
Notice how 'here' is no longer reddit
Reddit refused access to API, and people left reddit.
Lemmy.world is refusing access to the pirate instances.
By your logic, people should leave Lemmy.
No, by the same logic you should consider leaving lemmy.world.
People who want to access that community should leave lemmy.world, since it doesn’t seem like the admins want to unblock it. There are other lemmy instances, along with Piefed and mbin too.
Huh?
Not sure what they meant to be honest.
Hope you're doing ok!
That’s rich coming from fedi. On pexelfed there’s a guy that takes pictures of people’s faces, cars, license plates, and homes with addresses and nothing can be done about it. I just flat out blocked this ugly looking fucker but he still shows up on my feed. You can’t report him so it dawns on me that there’s also nothing that can be done on Pixelfed or other platforms on fedi about harassment or doxxing.
Wait what? Just random people or does he target certain people? Not that one is better or worse but this is just…. I dunno sounds like an angry person with untreated neurological issues.
I’m sorry if this goes against any rules, i don’t know but on pixelfed they go by iZone and Zf@c.im he’s not doing anything wrong against users but the pics he takes are what a stalker would take.
I'm just speculating, but maybe the owner is in a different country? Not everything is America and even the EU varies somewhat in laws and regulations. Then there is the entire rest of world. And finally different people have their individual morals and stances and what risks they are willing to take for others. Regardless I don't see any need to bash anybody else over this. Just switch to an instance by your own preference and be done with it. If it is really that important; run an instance of your own, private or public, and deal with it yourself.
By law, you cannot host and distribute licensed/copyrighted content, not talk about it. Not even reddit bans piracy related subs. Pretty sure FitGirl (was that the one?) uses a subreddit as official community.
lemmy.world is my least favourite part of lemmy.
Wait until I tell you about .ml
Oh wait…. Shit, sorry.
Hi, I am from an instance no one ever seems to talk about and when reading these kinds of threads I am glad I made that choice. 😁
Ok everybody. You heard them! Everybody talk about discuss.tchncs.de! Let's ALL form opinions and talk at length about them!
Those damn discuss.tchncs.de
Always discussing technics from De…
When will they Learn!
technics? those are the fancy lego right? i'm all about fancy lego
Every single user I've seen from that instance wants to remain relatively unknown, like they've got something to hide.
.....ok, I honestly can't tell if you're in on the joke, or if you're being a nutjob.
You can't tell they were joking around? :/
Well, I can tell. They are.
We all are, lol. Text with no conveyance of emotion sure is fun and never leads to arguments, ever!
Actually, I'm starting to think that sarcasm on the internet may be the problem...🤔
Text truly is a difficult medium. It doesn't help that many statements that would have definitely been sarcasm a couple of decades ago are legitimately said by fascists these days.
I've been on the internet since 1994, and I was on BBSes before that from 1987, so that along with my ADHD means I tend to over-use emoticons to indicate the light-hearted tone of most of the things I write. heh.
Also I also overuse "lol" and "heh" and "meh" for those purposes, too.
I know some rail against the usage of "/s", but really, it's no bad thing. Sure it may identify some jokes that the author intended to be subtle, but in the days where these things are said by some people… it's just necessary, alas.
Yup, you sound exactly like me! I think others can be put off because of the things you highlighted, which I also overuse. I'd rather come off as jovial in my writing than mean or angry. If that means I gotta use old school ASCII faces, I'll overuse the shit out them! ;)
bruh
Oh man, people from discuss.tchncs.de just cannot take a joke
Block the whole instance
I hated discuss.tchncs.de before it was cool.
Hey, are we fighting? I llllooooovvvvvvveeeeee fighting!! Oooo weee, those discuss.tchncs.de accounts are always trouble!! Gotta watch out for those guys, am I right?!
To be fair to others less knowledgeable, I've seen first hand someone admitting they joined .ml because it was the first/largest server they learned about, not knowing it was a marxist-leninist joint, and they were asking how to transfer their account up on outta there. That was a fun thread lol
My point is, just like we can't judge people based on their national origin, we shouldn't judge people from their home instance. But as a general rule, yeah .ml reeks lol
Idk if you're on grad I feel like you definitely know what you signed up for.
I agree but think its also different depending on context.
Like if someone has thousands of contributions and their account is 6 months + old. Hell yeah I can judge them on the instance they use. Because they have had plenty of time and opportunity to learn and change.
A new user on the otherhand. I won’t.
I myself have both a defunct world and ML account from a long time ago when I first joined the threadiverse.
In case you aren't aware, there is a comment chain below the first reply to your comment that adds some light-hearted teasing to your reply. Nothing but love for our German lemmings! ❤️
I've seen it. :D
I recently read an interesting comment about .ml that I think is worth sharing: https://lemmy.ml/post/42725005/23793647
As nice as those anticommercial ideals are, I generally just see shills that enjoy downplaying Russia's invasion and justifying Iran's mass-murdering of protesters out of .ml. Some really, really bizarre cyberstalking weirdos too.
Might be survivorship bias because only the assholes get noticed, but .ml has a pretty shitty reputation because of them.
I generally just see shills that enjoy downplaying Russia’s invasion and justifying Iran’s mass-murdering of protesters out of .ml
From your post on YPTB https://lemmy.ml/post/43198332,I think you're tend to misinterpret things. Even people from .world pointed it out.
That a nice wall of text but does not track onto reality.
That wall of text could be summarized as “but what about the other guys” without addressing a single criticism.
Unclear if AI bot, or insane person having a stroke.
My flair on that account from presumably another thread is “neoliberal troll”
So I think it’s just bait.
As I am a Lemmy n00b, can you direct me on what to do to be able to flair users? I like most of the Lemmy method of things, but as an old.reddit user using RES… I'm finding the options a little limited over here so far. :)
I use the voyager front end which lets me flare users. I believe you can also do this natively on the piefed default frontend (my instance is piefed). I’m not sure it’s possible on lemmy.
Thank you, this gives me where to go looking next :)
For you and @Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world, if flair, in this case, is similar to tagging users in other clients, it's a setting and feature set of clients like Voyager. You can tag users by going to their profile, selecting the three dots or whatever to get things like block user, and selecting tag. You can even change the vote total for them if you enable the setting to track vote totals for accounts.
I personally only modify the votes for accounts that I negatively tag. A super negative total is dark red and stands out!
unrelated but i love your 5 line keyboard layout
Thanks! The keyboard is TypeWise. It takes time to get used to but I suck at typing on any digital keyboard, so I still make plenty of mistakes with it!
Thank you. I'll play around with available clients, then :)
I've been here 2 years, and this is the first I'm hearing of this.
Increasingly harder to tell the difference since 2014.