grrr
3mon 29d ago by lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/not_IO in lemmyshitpost from lemmy.blahaj.zone
He's in them so often, they're calling them the trump/epstein files.
I see what you did there
Everyone is saying it. Lots of very smart people. Recently a genius by the name of Alfred Einstein came to me. Big man. Smart man. Had tears in his eyes and he said "Mr. President Trump if Trump International Airport, they are named after you because you are such a wonderful man and president and you saved us all from the monster."
Trumpstein❤️❤️❤️ I ship it
...or as I've recently taken to calling them: the Trump + Epstein files
The mask is off, and once you acknowledge that your ideology is about dominance and nothing else, “crimes against humanity” are just what the untermenschen call winning.
They'll also grumble something about DOW at 50 thousand
My friend dropped her phone and cracked the screen. It was a bad day and she started crying and all I had to say was the Dow is at 50K it’ll be okay.
” I could stand in the middle of 5th ave and rape a child and I wouldn’t lose a single vote!” 🫲🍊🫱
Did he say that?
A couple of weeks ago I realised that power is an actual drug for some people. And that a certain type can, like any alcoholic or coke-head, lose their mind over this addiction. This would explain all the pedo stuff. Most of these crazies probably are no clinically diagnosed pedophiles, but what do you do if you already own everything, cars, houses, yachts and islands? You come up with stuff everyone would go to jail for, like raping minors. It's coked out of their minds power addiction and we as a society need to make sure, that people are not exposed to it for too long.
Am I rambling? Made perfect sense to me when I first thought about it. :)
The original quote was saying that he could shoot a man in the middle of 5th street and not lose any votes. But yeah, he probably could rape a child on the street, and he would have apologists lining up to justify it.
Also lining up to take pictures and beg for a turn, if the preponderance of pedophiles in their leadership continues as a trend in the voters.
They've already decided rape is fine. Now they've decided child rape is fine too.
Having a pedo rapist as Preznit has opened the door wide for these fucking losers to just say it all out loud. Just look at the game Pragmata--- there used to be a time when you'd goon after a CHILD like that and you'd get reported and removed. Their new motto: "Our Preznit iz a Pedo so itz ok lawl wut u mad libruls???"
Remember when the worst thing MAGAts could be was racist? Ahh ... nostalgia.
next step is conservatives defending esptein.
Oh we’re already there. Recently came across a clip of some douchbag asking someone on a livestream “what’s wrong about raping kids?” Like it was some kinda gotcha mic drop moment.
Nazis do need their punches…
saw someone on Joe Rogan also defending Esptein.
Punching Nazis doesn't solve the problem of them being Nazis.
hit em with that epstein class stare
Out of morbid curiosity I went on r/conservative to see what they were saying about the files.
Go there and it’s like Epstein who? Not a single thread, it’s all threads attacking AOC or threads defending racism with more racism
Nobody is more cowardly than Conservatives, it's their baseline state at all times. They are constantly in a near state of panic over all their perceived enemies crashing through the door at any moment.
I want to tell myself that sub is mostly bots, but then the guy clearly got elected, so maybe they are real…
That sub is a small sample of the conservative base. Virtually every conservative I talk to in person is simply more ignorant overall, and often just parrot talking points (like black men who voted for him saying he's not racist because he donated to black colleges when Harris didn't, but she sent innocent black men to jail, etc).
They are literally and figuratively fucking dumb. Magical thinking, horoscope, and firmament believing nutters.
“Bro there’s no proof bro. He clearly was an FBI informant bro. Trumps totally 100% innocent bro. No amount of evidence will convince me, bro”
:/ Yeah.
"It's all fake, bro. They're just trying to make Trump look bad, bro. Actually, Biden and Hillary are in there, but they're covering it up, bro."
😭
“Bro it’s ai generated bro she’s just in it for the money bro the texts and emails and witness testimony don’t actually prove anything bro”
Most of the conservatives I know have said something along the lines of "there's still nothing incriminating trump directly"
They don't look cool or intimidating.

More like this
While the Europeans progress with their judicial system, the MAGA fucknuts are preparing another distraction by rattling their sabers against Iran.
The ones left really are the most retarded people on the planet.
I heard about this book when I was young, and the older I get the realer it becomes.
"Future Shock" by Alvin Toffler, written circa 1970. The author, a sociologist, predicted that as the world moved from the Industrial Age to the Digital Era many people would be unwilling/unable to deal with the new realities.
"Conservatives" all over the world are working harder and harder to hold onto the past.
You look like them when you drop the r-slur. Don't let their shit behavior and punching down make you worse.
Agreed.
Window licking mouth-breather is so much more poetic.
Dumb take alert.
If you're gonna jump in so late with so little to add, at least have the courage to drop the slur. It was right there.
More stupidity.
Now you're just taunting me. Badly.
Nope, it is my well informed opinion after reading all your comments. Your take is incredibly stupid and ignores context.
Well with such a compelling, well reasoned argument, I'll have to concede. Well done.
I read your argument, it was stupid. I thought it was important to point out.
Why was it stupid? First of all it is only a slur to someone who is mentally delayed. It wasn't being used in that context and it is clearly not punching down. It is an argument an idiot would make. Cheers!
That's a poorly reasoned take. Slurs are only slurs if someone's around to hear it? That's definitely not how that works. Additionally, groups that are not necessarily mentally delayed (waves in autistic) get painted with that brush too. So even by your poor reasoning, it was a slur because I was there to see it.
It was also definitely punching down. It was the classic usage "Group X is like group Y and they're bad because of the features they share", specifically difficulty understanding new information in this context. Explain how it wasn't that? How it didn't draw an equality between them based upon the expressed undesirable feature of learning difficulties, thus implying that the intellectually disabled are less because of it?
So, yeah. You're taunting me. Really badly.
So calling someone a common racial epithet always a slur? Ignoring context is stupid because it is willfully ignorance. Clearly context matters.
Furthermore who defines it as as a slur. I know someone who is mentally delayed that throws around the retard word all the time. Are you offended for them?
Also retardation has fallen out of favor for medical diagnosis. It has not fallen out of favor for a general insult, no matter how badly you want it to. Once again, ignoring context.
Lastly punching down refers to social ridicule from a high standing group to a low standing group. This did not happen. You are clearly wrong to say it did.
So yeah you are acting stupid and you continue to double down on the stupidity like it is a badge of honor.
So calling someone a removed is always a slur? Ignoring context is stupid because it is willfully ignorance. Clearly context matters.
So dropping the n-slur when no black people are around strips it of its history and the connotations used by the speaker? History is part of the context. Tone is part of the context. Both were present.
Furthermore who defines it as as a slur.
Society as a whole generally does that. We collectively decided 20 or so years ago that it was a bad thing to do. And the world was better for it. But that is a bad argument. Advocacy groups publishing articles reasoning far better than I regarding its status as hate speech is probably the better angle.
I know someone who is mentally developed that throws around the retard word all the time. Are you offended for them?
I'll assume you meant developmentally delayed. I don't care for it, but that's getting into 'reclaiming the word' territory, which is not what this conversation is about.
Also retardation has fallen out of favor for medical diagnosis. It has not fallen out of favor for a general insult, no matter how badly you want it to. Once again, ignoring context.
The existence of this conversation and my general net upvote (with a nod that lemmy is not a complete demographic, nor do a few comments do an informed study make) rather disproves that. It was out of favor for a long ass time. It was scumbags like Joe Rogan who brought it back. Words evolve past their history. A point I have at no point refuted, merely rejected the argument that this is relevant. One must show that the evolution has changed it sufficiently to no longer be a slur. It still bears its history and current status of being a slur despite falling out of medical favor.
Lastly punching down refers to social ridicule from a high standing group to a low standing group.
The individual, presumably not disabled, used the intellectually disabled as an insult against others. While perhaps not directly social ridicule it's not exactly promoting social standing. I'll grant that they were not attacked directly and thus punching down is not the most appropriate term. What was done was definitely a sibling and still a shitty thing to do.
So yeah you are acting stupid and you continue to double down on the stupidity like it is a badge of honor.
You fundamentally misunderstand. I see an offensive thing. I make a single comment that spiraled in a big way. I defend my position and await a compelling argument to convince me otherwise, which has not arisen. I've even had some good faith debate and conceded a few things in this mess. Your arguments just aren't landing for the reason's I'm spending too much time and effort on.
I'll admit that my taunts were in poor taste. It doesn't induce good faith debate to insult.
Black people don't view as a slur, they took it back like the Chicanos did. The major difference is they didn't fully take it back so it is both a source of unity and disrespect. That is on them for trying to take back a word they don't want others to use.
We collectively as a society stopped using retardation as a medical diagnosis. The rest of what you say is nonsense.
Glad you can admit the punching down was nonsense.
Speaking of spirals, I just said it was a dumb take because you forgot context and added in some bullshit about punching down. This is objectively true so I am not sure why you need to keep going on and on.
Black people don’t view as a slur
Black people are not a monolith and I'd be dead in the street if I said that in the wrong neighborhood. This is also irrelevant as that is more about reclamation than the status as a slur (which it is). It would matter if the original usage was performed by one who was disabled, for which we have no evidence nor reason to assume.
We collectively as a society stopped using retardation as a medical diagnosis. The rest of what you say is nonsense.
So history, the appeals of advocacy groups, the direct rejection of what you say by someone who would have been called such not long enough ago is irrelevant? Context only matters when it helps you I guess?
Glad you can admit the punching down was nonsense.
Linguistic imprecision is hardly the most salient point. My inability to name a better term for the wrong done does not remove the wrong.
Speaking of spirals, I just said it was a dumb take because you forgot context and added in some bullshit about punching down. This is objectively true so I am not sure why you need to keep going on and on.
I've listed off context multiple times. You have failed to refute any of it.
You're rather arrogant to aspire to objective truth. Even I'm not doing that and I'm having trouble breathing from my high horse. Sociology and linguistics are not the land of objective truth. It speaks ill of your reasoning abilities that you believe that is what you're doing.
Edit: I continue because you haven't convinced me. Do so and I'll yield.
So you admit that slurs are not always slurs and that context matters. This context was missing for you to call it a slur to begin with. There was no mentally delayed person being called a retard. Glad we can agree your original comment was half-baked.
What are you left with again? Oh yes a lie about a slur and a false usage of punching down. Stop bloviating, this is the beginning and end of it.
So you admit that slurs are not always slurs and context matter. This context was missing for you to call it a slur to begin with. There was no mentally delayed person being called a retard. Glad we can agree your original comment was half-baked.
That's quite a few words you shoved in my mouth. I, at no point, said slurs are not always slurs. I acknowledged context matters as a general statement and then posed the context that I believe matters. I, in fact, positively asserted that history, usage, and present recognition by relevant advocacy groups as being relevant context to define it as a slur. You have yet to acknowledge any of those points. I'll happily yield if you can name why those three things are irrelevant.
What are you left with again? Oh yes a lie about a slur and a false usage of punching down.
Lie? You've lost me on that one. I hold that the usage was offensive even if it does not necessarily meet the definition of 'punching down' specifically. The bat is still harmed when it strikes the baseball.
Stop bloviating, this is the beginning and end of it.
Is it? You have ignored my points multiple times while I have endeavored to engage with yours. I should know better than to engage with bad faith. Alas.
Glad we could agree even if you are coming from a point of bad faith now. I get it. You are wrong and want to try to make yourself right instead just admitting your comment was a hot take at best and a disingenuous lie at worst.
You say calling it a slur was not lie, but it was. It misrepresented reality and as so meets the definition. I also suspect you knew this hence why a lie is appropriate. I suppose you could claim ignorance, but I think that would be disingenuous at this point.
The way it was used was simply not a slur. Context matters and as I pointed out it was not a disparaging comment used to belittle a group. It was simply a personal insult. You might find it distasteful and I may even agree it can be in the correct context. It simplt wasn't in this situation though.
I apologize if you feel I have not conceded to any of your points. Most of what you say is not wrong, just the original comment was.
Glad we could agree even if you are coming from a point of bad faith now.
Ah pigeon chess. Delightful.
You say calling it a slur was not lie, but it was.
I'm still confused. What did I misrepresent? Calling it a slur was a lie? That's my entire thesis that I have backed at every step.
The way it was used was simply not a slur.
I contend otherwise. Extensively. With logic and rationale that you refuse to engage with.
I apologize if you feel I have not conceded to any of your points.
You don't have to concede. I expect you won't. I'd like you to engage with me rather than put words in my mouth and ignore what you find inconvenient, though even that is out of what I have control over. I've specifically marked why I have dismissed some of your arguments (mostly red herring) while you've relied on the tried and true 'nuh uh' strategy.
I listed three things that, if refuted directly, I would gladly yield. You have ignored this condition that is the basis of having any sort of debate and instead decided that you have won by some metric that you have come up with. Or would you like to babble about context while ignoring it more?
Bad faith confirmed.
You may contend otherwise, but you are wrong. As I pointed out.
I suppose we won't see eye to eye here and that is fine. Your comment was garbage and I explained why. You have failed to convince me otherwise. Cheers!
It's rather hard to see eye to eye while you cover yours. Enjoy your hate speech.
More lies, to be expected.
This has taken such a strange turn. At the risk of encouraging the pigeon, you do realize that deception, by definition, requires an intent to deceive? At worst I'm just wrong.
I don't understand your affinity for hate speech nor why you defend it to the point of apparent delusion, but you might want to ask a therapist about that.
The only strange turn is you being a total liar and bullshit artist.
I swear you must be some fascist fuck pretending to be a social justice warrior. Sorry if I don't share you faux outrage.
It's just very suddenly aggressive. I'm very confused where the turn happened and where the poorly founded accusations of lying enter. What statement did I intentionally misrepresent?
I mean, I dumped a lot of effort into defending against the use of a slur. Fascists have a tendency to be pro-slur in general. Your stance is... shaky.
Took me a minute to figure it out, but now it is clear.
It's unfortunate. Other than you loving hate speech apparently, your comment history indicates we agree on quite a bit, if perhaps not to the same level of passion.
More lies, you just can't help yourself.
I am sure we share many similar beliefs like all people. Cheers!
I see. Care to share with the class? Or are you just gonna show up outside my house with a knife, cause that's the vibe you're now giving off.
An appeal to your... whatever you've got going on: it'll help other people not be deceived if you say whatever the fuck you're talking about.
Fuck off
Don't use hateful and degrading language that harms the intellectually disabled and associated groups.
Just because someone has a mental disability doesn't mean they are Republican. That seems way more offensive.
Retarded hasn't been a slur against the mentally disabled in the common vernacular for a while now. Well, until people decided that it's the new term to get offended for others about.
Language is always changing, and its meaning is now synonymous with moron (which also used to be a medical term for the intellectually disabled).
Context and intent is key, and it's clear that they weren't disparaging the mentally disabled.
Really? Did you not read the original comment? Because that's how I used it on the playground when I was a child. I asserted another person was less due to an intellectual disability, normalizing that it's OK to insult people using a term that once upon a time neutrally described the intellectually disabled. And then I learned that it isn't OK to punch down, that the people used as an insult were as human and deserving of respect as myself.
Fuck off with your bad faith nonsense. The original comment is exactly why it became a slur in the first place.
Because that’s how I used it on the playground when I was a child.
I feel like there is a concession here?
I asserted another person was less due to an intellectual disability, normalizing that it’s OK to insult people using a term that once upon a time neutrally described the intellectually disabled.
This is explicitly what they're saying it doesn't mean. They're not referring to literal mentally handicapped people. They're using a casual if aggressive put-down towards people who demonstrate profound anti-intellectualism in a way those people would understand as a means to viscerally and painfully insult them.
And they're doing so in a way that doesn't mentally police their own language. Self policing perpetually requires cognitive effort and second guessing. It puts you culturally on the backfoot. If you want to fight rightwing demons, you have to go for the jugular on a pure red boiling instinctual level, or you lose. You have to fight so hard that there is collateral damage, otherwise the average person will simply see you as inauthentic and overly clean and calculated.
Further, ableism and other particular 'isms' like racism and sexism are not directly comparable. Talk about bad faith. Ableism based insults directly reference material capabilities in the person you are insulting, definitionally. Racism and Sexism are bad because they prescriptively assign people to irrational and prejudiced stereotypes about their weakness or unworthiness. Ableism just directly references perceived weakness. This is still rude and mean spirited, and thus can easily be bad. But it is simply not the same.
I am autistic. When people insult rightwinger's social behavior by calling them a cringey autist (and yes, I've seen this) it does sting. It does bring about some bitterness because I did not choose to be this way. But I get it... I understand. If it hurts the rightwinger, its probably worth it. And I've even engaged in the same seeming self loathing indulgence to get at people who need to be brought down a peg.
There is no moral difference between calling someone "stupid" and using the R word, except in the impact of the term. And the modern rightwinger gives absolutely no shits if you call them an "asshole". In fact, many of them like that, they'll even embrace their lack of morals with pride.
And then I learned that it isn’t OK to punch down, that the people used as an insult were as human and deserving of respect as myself.
Correction: Its harmful to punch down. Its more harmful to refuse to punch down as some kind of holy rule if it weakens a righteous cause to more broadly protect the weak. By destroying a rightwinger's pride through such humiliation of their material ability you are helping the weak, even if through "splash damage" you also hurt their feelings.
That said: I don't even think any of my politically tactical justifications here are wholly needed. Sometimes you want to hurt who you rightfully hate and are willing to damage yourself and others to do it. Rational ethics do not always come into the picture when you are facing the end of the world. Its just eye rolling to expect clean language as we sink into the fires of hell.
Sometimes you want to emotionally unburden yourself and metaphorically just rip a pigs head off in the mud because the world has shit on you when you did not deserve it. My visceral hatred of the average dipshit rightwinger is so intense as to nearly be the reason I've not off'd myself. I'm almost surviving off spite right now.
I feel like there is a concession here?
More that I did unacceptable things as a child and grew out of them. An appeal that I'm not some righteous figure, just someone who wants to do better and would like to see that elsewhere.
This is explicitly what they’re saying it doesn’t mean. They’re not referring to literal mentally handicapped people.
There is nowhere in there that implies this. It explicitly compares republicans to the intellectually disabled in an equality for the purposes of insult. The republicans were the expressly intended person to be insulted, the intellectually disabled (kinda get using the damned slur, it's a lot faster) being the undesirable comparison.
And they’re doing so in a way that doesn’t mentally police their own language. Self policing perpetually requires cognitive effort and second guessing.
Everyone self polices to some extent. We stand in lines, we don't steal, etc, etc. We refrain from using terminology that would hurt others. This is not a high bar. It's the base line. Feels like the only reason it's seen as acceptable is because you can shout that word and not have an angry mob delete you. Use the n-slur on the other hand and no power in the universe will save you depending on where you're standing. But I digress.
I am autistic. When people insult rightwinger’s social behavior by calling them a cringey autist (and yes, I’ve seen this) it does sting.
That's the point. I'm autistic too and instead of tolerating shit, backsliding behavior that was picked up from the people we are all agreeing are terrible, I said something. We can rage against them without hurting others. We can have some community standards. Hell, they're defending pedophiles. Why are we using their slurs when they hand us such terrible ones to use? (Argument goes here for using the language they understand, which I don't have an argument against).
Sometimes you want to hurt who you rightfully hate and are willing to damage yourself and others to do it. Rational ethics do not always come into the picture when you are facing the end of the world.
Respect for the honesty. And I don't totally disagree. The kid that recently became the 'ok' meme comes to mind. And his way seems more moral. Though it's hard to punch Nazis through the screen.
Ultimately, this 'purity test' isn't a hard one. This is 'write your name on the paper' level. Debating things like Al Green getting ousted from congress for shit he did decades before is debatable, and a good debate to have. Using slurs that were resurrected by awful people should not be that difficult, nor elicit such discussion. It should be the baseline.
More that I did unacceptable things as a child and grew out of them. An appeal that I’m not some righteous figure, just someone who wants to do better and would like to see that elsewhere.
Not what I meant, to be fair I should have been more explicit. I was pointing out that you are referencing your childhood, implying this was a while ago and that this goes along with the idea that language changes over time, which the person you responded to had pointed out.
Do you think "idiot" and "moron" are offensive to the mentally handicapped? Are they unacceptably ableist?
Everyone self polices to some extent.
Yes, but its intrinsically unpleasant. Its essentially a mutually agreed upon facade for business and formality that many people prefer to willingly destroy with alcohol to socialize with each other more authentically.
As a fellow autistic person, you should know well the resentment stemming from constant and heavy masking.
Feels like the only reason it’s seen as acceptable is because you can shout that word and not have an angry mob delete you.
Maybe for some people this is the case but not mine. I use the r-slur because I feel a distinct and strong disgust for anti-intellectuals and dumb shit rightwingers that softer insults do not even make qualification for let alone rank for casual usage where I'm not necessarily trying to get creative.
Other words that authentically would get me "deleted" as you say I feel zero desire to say out loud. Ultimately though, the reason I don't is the people saying them are precisely the sort to want to propagate violence towards the racial or gender group they're using a slur for. They're stochastically calling for violence against innocent people. Using the r-slur doesn't do that.
That’s the point. I’m autistic too and instead of tolerating shit, backsliding behavior that was picked up from the people we are all agreeing are terrible, I said something.
I don't consider this taking cultural ideas from the right. Though we definitely do that and I think its normal for the two political factions of left and right to take cultural ideas from each other. Regardless, the r-slur was considered acceptable by virtually everyone pre-2010. Left or right. And the ramp up in disdain for the usage of word happened leading up to Trump's first electoral victory in 2016.
Using slurs that were resurrected by awful people should not be that difficult, nor elicit such discussion. It should be the baseline.
Its not baseline. Its obviously still a debate, a stubborn one as well.
Do you think “idiot” and “moron” are offensive to the mentally handicapped? Are they unacceptably ableist?
This popped up elsewhere in this dumpster fire. I eliminated moron (which was specifically called out) from my dictionary because I'll put my money where my mouth is. Further, the idea of shaming people for lacking knowledge is by itself problematic. Intelligence in general is not a single factor but context specific. I don't know a lot about a lot of things and that doesn't make me a worse person, those just aren't my fields. XKCD's lucky 10000 is a great example of why shaming people into pretending they know things makes the world worse. Bear in mind, pride in not knowing things is foolish and worth derision.
feel a distinct and strong disgust for anti-intellectuals and dumb shit rightwingers that softer insults do not even make qualification for let alone rank for casual usage where I’m not necessarily trying to get creative.
I understand that one. I agree with the sentiment even if I disagree with the execution. I'd offer alternatives if I had them, but I'm burned on the whole thing for the moment. End of the day I really don't want to insult people really.
Using the r-slur doesn’t do that.
That's kinda my point. The group that the r-slur maligns is not one prone to violence or aggregated enough that people feel the need to check themselves. If I remember right (not looking up studies right now so I'll eat my words if I'm wrong), the mentally disabled are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators thereof. Might be crossing my wires with mental illness, but you get my point. It's not the best that the only reason certain groups aren't given respect is because they aren't prone to harming those that disrespect them, often to their detriment.
I don’t consider this taking cultural ideas from the right.
According to the New York Times, that's exactly where it came from. Posts from Harmeet K. Dhillon, the assistant attorney general overseeing the Justice* Department's Civil Rights Division posted it in some knitting. Joe Rogan said "The word 'retarded' is back".
And the ramp up in disdain for the usage of word happened leading up to Trump’s first electoral victory in 2016.
Not even close. I lived through that word dying off in middle school. Early to mid aughts. In my small town it became taboo to say fairly rapidly.
Its not baseline. Its obviously still a debate, a stubborn one as well.
It isn't and that's my problem. I am prone to naivete and acting how I think the world should work. It's a thing I struggle with. In my (paltry) defense, the debate died like 20 years ago and assholes brought it back.
Aside: I appreciate the candid debate. Many thanks.
This popped up elsewhere in this dumpster fire. I eliminated moron (which was specifically called out) from my dictionary because I’ll put my money where my mouth is.
Idiot has a similar history. Most clinical terms and words describing someone with an intellectual disability ends up turned into an insult.
Further, the idea of shaming people for lacking knowledge is by itself problematic. Intelligence in general is not a single factor but context specific. I don’t know a lot about a lot of things and that doesn’t make me a worse person, those just aren’t my fields. XKCD’s lucky 10000 is a great example of why shaming people into pretending they know things makes the world worse. Bear in mind, pride in not knowing things is foolish and worth derision.
Its not even pride necessarily, sometimes its an active mental shield and I find both revolting. Refusing to see the truth of something for mental comfort is pathetic and extremely selfish. I'm not a virtue ethicist, but emotionally I am one towards people like this. In order to make the most ethical decisions, you need to face the truth. By purposefully avoiding the truth: rational ethical decisions become impossible, meaning anyone who does this is just a straight up bad person.
Not even close. I lived through that word dying off in middle school. Early to mid aughts. In my small town it became taboo to say fairly rapidly.
I guess I'm mostly referring to internet usage as well as its taboo nature being equivalent to swearing or using expletives which are merely not acceptable around authority's, stuffy people, at school, or at work. I remember playing online games among even progressive people who would call people the r-slur a lot as late as 2014 or interacting on Forums, Reddit, Twitter, etc and seeing the word thrown around. Among my friends (who were democrats, while I was a republican because my dad said we were lol) they would call people retards when teachers were not around.
Outside of the main topic:
If I remember right (not looking up studies right now so I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong), the mentally disabled are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators thereof. Might be crossing my wires with mental illness
Also without looking it up, pretty sure both are correct. Though with the asterisk that mental illness includes a broad variety and that many of the "violent" mental illnesses are more rare than the non-violent ones. Untreated schizophrenia, bipolar, NPD, ASPD, most substance abuse disorders, and even ADHD all have associations with higher rates of committing violence compared to the average. Its just that for every 1 person with one of those there are like 5-10 people with PTSD, generalized anxiety disorder, eating disorder, chronic depression, autism, etc who are significantly less likely to be violent, so they drag down the average. And almost all of them are more likely to be victims than perpetrators.
Aside: I appreciate the candid debate. Many thanks.
I unironically love good faith and intellectually honest debate. It gives me energy.
Idiot has a similar history. Most clinical terms and words describing someone with an intellectual disability ends up turned into an insult.
This whole thing has me soured on using lack of intelligence as in insult, because it shouldn't be. We're more than what we know or the ease in which we learn things. It feels old-timey to use it, but foolish feels a better term for what should be an undesirable trait. Along the lines of reveling in ones ignorance is a thing that shouldn't be encouraged. Could just be my internal dictionary on that one.
meaning anyone who does this is just a straight up bad person.
Complete and utter agreement. No caveats. Capital T Truth is one of the very few things I'd call 'sacred' (gross religious connotations aside).
I guess I’m mostly referring to internet usage as well
That's fair. I'm the weird millennial that really didn't do forums or vaguely social internet things back in the day. And I think I forget how edgy the internet back then was. This kids, is why anecdote is an incomplete source of knowledge.
I unironically love good faith and intellectually honest debate. It gives me energy.
It's too bad they're so few and far between. It's that good faith bit that's so hard to get. Engaging in a way that leaves me open to being wrong and understanding more is delightful, even if the topic is not necessarily so.
There is a correct and good community building way to address this issue, and there is a "Gotcha, fucker! you made a mistake in your words, I'm gonna yell at you on the internet!" way of dealing with this issue.
The correct way would be to privately message the person and say, "Hey, please don't use that kind of language, it is offensive"
They might have gone back and edited it.
I feel like people have forgotten the concept of face, since the internet is anonymous, and a lot of flame wars happen because people do not consider each other's faces when they are talking to each other.
So if you really consider the impact of derailing a conversation about how Republicans and Trump supporters and fascist pedophiles are destroying the entire world and making everyone on the planet miserable to say, "Hey, you used a word that is offensive to people with mental difficulties", then I would say that you were in the wrong for addressing your concern in the way that you did, not that your concern itself was wrong.
Or you call them out in public because discretion just lets things fester. Shame me when I do shameful things, I beg you. Shit like this is how the Overton Window moves. Having basic standards in ones community, however it manifests, is not a bad thing. It signals to others that this behavior is not acceptable instead of quietly letting it slide and implying that it is OK by silence.
And it isn't a hard standard. It's not asking a lot. Don't use slurs. We generally understand that with race. We mostly understand that with sex and gender. So disability gets a pass? Fuck that. Tear me down if I'm so casually cruel. If you can't have the creativity to have a decent insult that doesn't involve shaming the disabled, then call them (the republicans not the disabled) assholes and move on. Don't use the slurs of the morally repugnant.
If you want to have that debate, then you have to address the concept of insults themselves.
It is the soul of irony to suggest there is a specific line that you're not allowed to cross when you're being offensive, when insults themselves are meant to be offensive.
You can find a bone to pick with any insult. You can't call someone an asshole because there is a significant portion of the population who have either been congenitally born without assholes or who have lost theirs and are using a colostomy bag. And every time the word asshole pops up in their radar, they're reminded of their plight and it is trauma-reinducing.
Calling someone a fucker is potentially trauma-inducing to people who have lost their genitals or been surgically mutilated and are unable to enjoy any pleasure from sex or possibly unable to have sex itself.
And I get that people who have experienced difficulties are different from people who are born with difficulties, but both of those groups are forced to live with things that they simply cannot do anything about. When they encounter aggressive language all they can do is take it.
I still think you are correct that we shouldn't use the r-slur, but we also shouldn't really tone police one another in public when the only method available to do so is to detract from a much more important conversation.
After all, the only way we're ever going to get to a world where the largest concern we have is the Emotional Impact of what words we use when we are angry and frustrated is to deal with the actual world in front of us, where people are murdering and killing people for being born different.
First and most important: we're in a shitposting community. This is not some stage where the conversation needs a focus. This is THE place to call people out casually. It's a damned free for all for better and worse. I'd honestly be more OK with your argument if this happened elsewhere. I'd still disagree, being polite and ignoring people being shitty in public should be called out more, to hell with face. Holding people to basic standards should be the norm and doing so where others can see shows those that might be hurt that people don't agree. But elsewhere, I'd consider removing my post or some such.
You're right. Most insults have someone who may be hurt who doesn't deserve it. I've honestly had that thought bouncing around my head for the past hour or so. And I don't have a good answer other than calling them things are/should be universally reviled. Work in progress. Immoral shitstain has a decent ring and I suspect there isn't anyone that identifies with profound uncleanliness. The ideal would be to specifically insult based on bad behavior, but damn that's tough on the fly and very context dependent.
It should be noted, and you did somewhat, that calling someone and asshole or fucker doesn't have a storied history of being a slur. I'm no philosopher or even terribly good debater to specifically define the line, but 'old slurs that came back because awful people started using them again' feels like an easy win. We gave that word up a long ass time ago, let it stay dead instead of emulating these people we claim to loathe.
Nah, I wouldn't have. It's pearl clutching.
Yes, and apparently my reading comprehension is better than yours. They're saying Republican Trump supporters are so dumb their intelligence is on the level of someone with an intellectual disability.
They're not disparaging the mentally disabled or saying that mentally disabled people are lesser. They're making a comparison.
But I bet you'd be perfectly fine if they had called Trump supporters morons, which is exactly the same type of insult as retarded.
They are making a distinctly unfavorable comparison (or was the monster in the picture that started this a compliment?) by comparing repugnant, morally vacant people to the mentally disabled in an equality. They are saying that republicans are lesser and that they are the same as the intellectually disabled, which would make the intellectually disabled lesser by logic we learned in elementary school.
It's not hard to not use a slur. There are a great many insults out there. Have some standards.
And yeah, moron probably would have missed me. It was a slur before my time. And now, I'll update my internal no-no list. Thanks, that's correct. That's a common way people improve, but being called out on shitty behavior.
It's educated park clutching and purity tests. You said it better than I care to.
Nah. I'm good. I never was going to pass the "wholesome" purity tests that progressives love to fuck themselves with.
No autistic or adhd Lemmy/piefed users were hurt. Nobody thought, oh that's kinda like me. Only retarded Republicans.
The test was 'don't use slurs'. I suspect you have larger issues if that is the hill you want to die on.
I'm autistic. I don't like seeing that word come back. So I called out shit behavior. Have some godsdamned creativity if you're going to insult people. Don't emulate the people you're insulting.
As usual with all things, it's a spectrum when, where, and what I'll use. And I think it's plenty appropriate to direct it to hurt these fascist nazis.
But to be clear, no I will not pass your test to never use any slur in any context. I don't think most people would, even on the progressive side of the spectrum. Nor do I think the bar will remain the same for certain people and they are just annoying people into fascism over every single fucking micro aggression.
So. Coming down from my high horse and taking a breath. A good faith question for you? I can understand the first paragraph and disagree with the second, but I would like to let that go for just a second.
Why are you attached to this word? They defend pedophiles, the steal from the poor, they commit atrocities, and they do really bizarre shit like wearing diapers because their leader is incontinent. I get the 'hit them with what hurts' angle and can't say whether or not it's effective. Is casually hurting others, because two different people in these comments have positively asserted that they were offended, worth not choosing a different word?
Because I believe it does hurt them and shame them more forcefully and is more effective conveying the degree of stupidity. I also think, tangentially (like wild), that Internet culture change vastly outpaces built-in generationally learned norms and that young people interact with older more than ever. And the amount of change desired, among a billion other more important factors but a factor none the less, is essentially 'annoying people into fascism'. Especially in non formal settings, outside the workspace, legal language,Again, small factor in a while lot of things.
Some people are going to be full on charge. Some will think you are silly and over reacting. Sometimes, is an education thing and they are genuinely happy to learn. But if not, you insisting is essentially using political or social capital in various different ways. And I think it's over used and failing because of said generational differences.
It's not really my hill to die on. I just think they are a lost cause and I want to hurt and shame them at this point and think most people (maybe not on fediverse) enjoy hearing them described as such.
I appreciate the answer. I even agree to a large extent with your last point. I still think it an easy thing to not do and will call it out when I see it. I think the people that are letting annoyance with the general rule 'don't be a dick even if you can get away with it' lead them to fascism were probably most of the way there anyway, but that's whatever.
I'm not going to entreat further change from you, I've got too many paragraphs into this thread as is. I hope to see the immoral sacks of shit get everything they have coming too.
Language is about intent.
I think "Jap" is one of the dumbest slurs there is, since it's just cutting off two letters from the country, and I'm not offended when I hear it, I just laugh. But it's still a slur.
There is an entire South Park episode on people changing the way they use "fag" from slander against gays, to slander against Harley motorcycle riders. You are one of the gays in this episode who doesn't understand the intent behind why/how the way the word is used changes
There was no ambiguous intent to how they used the slur. It was the classic "they're bad because they're like X" usage. It's a word with a long history of harming a marginalized group. It was resurrected by awful people for its original awful purpose.
So, less good faith this time: why do you defend it? What worth does it have that cannot be claimed elsewhere?
Asked by someone part of a group that was painted with the r-slur for a long ass time (autism).
Oof. Way to embody your slur of choice.
some person i know (kms) continues to say 'even though he's in the files he didn't do anythinggg :( he literally reported epstein :((( if he did anything he would be in jail right now 🤓"
Shotgun can cure a lot of ills
Just make sure you don't place muzzle at the chin, that's amateur hour, can shift and blow off just your face, leaving you with more problems.
Place muzzle back a few inches below the ear, pointing up into the brain. If you know where the cerebellum is, you'll have even better success when pointing to that.
Oh, wait. You ARE taking about suicide, right?
Got sick and tired of those looks so I stopped making them question their reality.
JFC this is a meme of all time
We've all seen Alex wazzisname... The evil one that had a radio show. Eh who cares, point is we know what he looks like, you don't need to remind us.
Hmm PIC seems familiar (doom?). From what game is this?
It's the Doom Eternal version of a Mancubus
Gar-Tok!