"Dont blame me kid i vote for Kamala"
3mon 19d ago by mander.xyz/u/Salamence in leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com from hexbear.net
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7804222
You can tell this is fake because the USA soldier would shoot the child as well
Don't blame me, I posted critical memes on Lemmy, I did all I could!
Edit: I have some mixed feelings about this comment. Let's cut the snark and actually think about what we can do to stop this madness. I hope everyone is checking in with their local orgs to see what actions can be taken.
Dont blame me, im one of the victims of your fascist empire
Americans are also a victim of it. But we do have more agency (and thus responsibility) in reducing its harms.
I will note however that there is probably something that can be done from anywhere in the world. We live in an interconnected world. The fascist empire exists in part because the world allows it to.
You vote in a fascist or let one in and the blame the world. You all deserve to be the victim and shunned by everyone.
"Let one in"
What do you think I, personally, should have done to stop Trump that I did not do?
I get you're angry but this is a braindead political analysis. The US is a highly undemocratic country. Very few people wanted this to happen.
I can only speak to the person who posted this meme and made the headline blaming people who voted for Kamala
Yeah I thought the headline was silly as well. I'm not sure what Kamala has to do with soldiers murdering people today. Maybe she normalized it with her positions and statements but she's never had particularly much influence over any US military actions, and people who voted for her had even less.
The point being made is that a lot of Democrat voters limit their action to simply voting Democratic and lying by claiming the Democrats are lesser war-hawks, when historically both parties are fundamentally the same in perpetrating death globally. The post title is mocking the soldier in them using "I voted for Kamala" as a defense for his actions, i.e. I didn't want this to happen so I voted democrat. Also, the joke could be taken further as a "Just following orders" theme, given the soldier voted against this and didn't want it to happen, but still committed the war crime as ordered.
I disagree they're fundamentally the same. Dems are more ambivalent about war compared to full throated support on the right (with some minor exceptions like Massie, Rand, etc.)
Kamala Harris would not be bombing Iran right now.
But yeah people should be doing a lot more than voting, there we agree.
I thought you had the 2nd amendment to prevent this.
Nah that's only for the fascists. See Alex Pretti vs Kyle Rittenhouse.
Bars.
Yeah, fuck those Jews for letting Hitler take office. They got the showers they deserved.
Victim of American empire:
Dont blame me, im one of the victims of your fascist empire
(Presumably) American:
We live in an interconnected world. The fascist empire exists in part because the world allows it to.
Are you kidding?
Everyone wants to play the victim. No one wants to do the hard work to protect the victims. Human nature.
But whining about it online doesn't change shit. I guarantee you the real victims aren't here on Lemmy.
Everyone wants to be a victim. No one wants to do the hard work to protect the victims. Human nature.
But whining about it online doesn’t change shit.
Are you kidding me? What do you know about Salamence's life, situation, or actions? What gives you the right to lecture like this?
The fact that they're lecturing us from the same position lol. That's what made me want to comment in the first place.
But it's fine, I was trying to get past that with my edit calling for everyone to work together. But I guess as usual leftists working together proves impossible. Big part of why the world is so shit.
The fact that they’re lecturing us from the same position lol. That’s what made me want to comment in the first place.
the same position
Salamence:
Dont blame me, im one of the victims of your fascist empire
Clearly not the same position. You assumed the person posting was in the same position, which was incorrect.
But it’s fine, I was trying to get past that with my edit calling for everyone to work together. But I guess as usual leftists working together proves impossible. Big part of why the world is so shit.
Solidarity is good. But people in the imperial core can't expect solidarity if they don't give it.
They're in the same position of ignorance about the people they're arguing with and criticizing online as I am.
What kind of solidarity would you like to see from me that you feel is lacking?
Salamence made a post with a meme criticizing American troops who murdered people in the third world. That's not a position of ignorance, everyone knows what happened there.
I mean the title is clearly directed at random American civilians, not just military folks. Although yes, they are ignorant about people who are in the military too.
I mean the title is clearly directed at random American civilians, not just military folks. Although yes, they are ignorant about people who are in the military too.
Is this seriously a reply where the first sentence attempts to avoid seeming like a defense of soldiers while the second sentence is an overt defense of soldiers?
I mean the title is clearly directed at random American civilians
Really? Is it that clear? Don't soldiers vote for Kamala too?
I'm not defending soldiers. I do think the position that it's wrong to join or support the US military is obviously correct. But of course that doesn't change the fact that we have no direct knowledge of why people do these things on an individual basis. Since you brought it up I thought I'd point that out. But I feel like now we're arguing just to argue.
It seemed clear to me. If that wasn't the intention then I don't know?
I'm just really sick of all of the finger-pointing between people about very insignificant actions people did or didn't do that may or may not have led us to this moment. I'd rather talk about how we get out of it.
I’d rather talk about how we get out of it.
That's fair and good, but people (especially victims of the US empire) also have a right to post about how we got here, including just to vent. The first step to fixing things is knowing how they broke. I think trying to tell Salamence that there's shared blame here between victims and bystanders or perpetrators is counterproductive to this goal.
calling for everyone to work together
Really? From this reply you made clear what you want is to share the blame
We live in an interconnected world. The fascist empire exists in part because the world allows it to.
Everyone shares blame, that's just the reality, whether people want to admit it or not. It means me, yes. But it also means you.
I don't know why no one will admit that yes, they are partially to blame. I think that IS the first step to working together. If people don't feel responsibility to act because it's someone else's responsibility, then they won't.
You can say whatever you want to try to dilute and deflect any criticism, but to us outside the empire, we simply can watch the news to see who is the real problem
What criticism? You can't even criticize me because you know nothing about me lol
I already acknowledged Americans have a responsibility to stop this so I don't even know what your objection is.
What criticism? You can’t even criticize me because you know nothing about me lol
You're replying pretty defensively to a meme criticizing American troops. If it's not about you, then there was no need to reply.
I'm just making a statement about slacktivism. I don't have a problem with criticizing American troops.
OK, thanks for explaining. But this is a meme comm, so people post memes on it. It's not a place where you can engage in real activism, that's not what it's for.
They already killed around 70+ children in a girls elementary school. So shooting the kid is accurate
160-something now 😭
Surely no "leftist" is going to get incredibly mad about this good post in the comments.
Wont somebody please think about the war criminals of the Epstein Coalition? 
And surely no "leftist" is going to get incredibly mad when I say:
"Authority breeds violence. Death to all authority, states being the best example of them. Death to states, of which the US is the most powerful and most destructive."
I'm sure no "leftist" is instead going to propose creation of a "leftist state", employ exsoldiers of the previous capitalist state and then justify war crimes by those soldiers under the name of "liberation".
This is a left unity comm, not an anarchist comm. Different opinions on the nature and purpose of the state are allowed and expected.
"Red bourgeoisie are better than blue bourgeoisie" is contradictory with the goal of achieving a stateless, classless society.
So I'm not against what you're saying (and maybe I'm taking the bate here) but are you implying anarchy is the only way to be free? If so, why use the term "leftist" at all, as it encompasses many ideologies, of which anarchism is one?
Existence of authority is a direct contradiction of freedom. So anything except for total anarchy = not complete freedom.
That being said, complete anarchy is akin to machine with 100% efficiency. Amazing, but very difficult (almost impossible) to make. So do I believe that we must start by blowing up all forms of authority on day one? No. Many anarchists that I've met believe this. Most I've met reject the idea of democracy (again, because it's the majority "ruling" over the minority). This is why I won't call myself an anarchist.
I don't associate with any leftist subgroups enough that I would want to associate with them. Sure, I feel ideologically closer to some than others, but again, not enough to consider myself part of them. This is the explanation for my usage of the broad term "leftist".
Also, i was responding to the comment above, attempting to mirror their comment to convey my message. The above commentator was very likely a ML. I've observed these folk on Lemmy to have a habit of criticising imperialism, greed, warmongering and so on when the countries they hate do it, but absolutely cheering it on when the reds do it. It's really annoying, that's all.
How will you make the states dead without authority?
Not possible. However, progressive erosion of authority is essential. So many MLs here like to defend authoritarianism by their favorite parties in situations where it went against the publicly believed goals of the revolution(s).
It's always the same story.
Imperialism, and blindly following authoritarian regimes. To end this evil, we need to get rid of authoritarian regimes, support freedom, free independent press, and thinking instead of following what's done in the government.
We can replace the USA flag with Israel one, or the one from Russia, or China, or one of many other countries that are exploiting Africa. Sad but true.
I wish to all the authoritarian countries to start revolution and get rid of the oligarchs. USA, ruSSia, Israel, China, and many many others. Without the revolution, humanity will fall.
lame me, I posted critical memes on Lemmy, I did all I could!
Oh shit, China invaded a country too? Which one? It really is WWIII
Chinese imperialism mainly happens within its borders (see: Xinjiang and Tibet); doesn't make it any better. To be clear China is the lesser of these evils, but whether what it's doing technically counts as an "invasion" doesn't have much to do with that.
This is funny and insightful because soldiers of lefty governments never kill innocent civilians. /s Gawd this campist garbage is braindead. This would be a great comic for a pacifist sub, but what's it got to do with leftism?
Campism is when you criticise the Soldiers of the Fascist Empire apparently
Is that what your headline is doing?
Dumb take.
It's YOUR take.
Your interpretation of my comment was a bad take.
There wasn't really any "interpretation", it's just what you said.
Nope.
Why are you so mad that the American military has been criticized?
Am I really? No, I am annoyed that leftism is being hijacked by nationalistic idiocy. Criticize the US military all you want, but if I can slap the name of literally any other country on the same cartoon, the criticism isn't exactly pointed. (or interesting)
Criticize the US military all you want
Salamence did and you're complaining about it.
I made my criticism clear. Having no answer to that criticism, you assumed a motivation that didn't exist and attacked that.
I made my criticism clear.
You're here crying that someone criticized ameriKKKan soldiers for being monsters and your justification is that other soldiers do it too.
midwest.social
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Your fascist empire is destroying the world, yankee. Don't go crying when people take offense to that.
I'm not crying and have no problem with criticisms of US troops or US military actions. This particular criticism is dumb as fuck though.
I’m not crying and have no problem with criticisms of US troops or US military actions.
Except when people make them, then you get angry and say things like...
This particular criticism is dumb as fuck though.
This particular criticism is mocking the common excuse americans will give for why they have no choice but to sign up to murder innocent people: "I just wanted to pay for college". The point is that it doesn't make a difference to the victims. It's a good point.
Post the same cartoon with a Russian soldier and a Ukrainian kid, or a Chinese soldier and a Tibetin kid and I'd have the same criticism.
Yeah the college thing is unique to America, but you could throw any inducement in there. (like employment assistance for China and discounted burial for Russia)
You can't think of any reason someone would criticize specifically American soldiers today? 
No, I can think of great reasons to criticize specifically American soldiers today. What does that have to do with my comment? This particular criticism is dumb. Not all criticisms are dumb. (or undeserved)
Your entire point is that the criticism is "dumb" because it could be applied to other soldiers. Yet you are well aware of why specifically American soldiers are being criticized.
Yes. Those do not conflict.
The criticism is simultaneously both dumb and valid?
How could someone with "math" in their name be this bad at simple logic? Oh, "christian". Got it.
"Dumb" and "valid" cannot be true at the same time lmfao, that's the simple logic I am getting at.
This ain't rocket science. There are valid criticisms to be made. This ain't one of them.
So you don't consider it a valid criticism? Then what "both" things did you think were true?
Edit: am I understanding this chain correctly that you think it's invalid because it could be made about other nations as well??
As I said in the original comment and haven't really touched on since, it's about the campism. This would be a valid criticism of modern "soldiering" in general, but the strong implication that this is a uniquely American problem is completely ridiculous.
If anything, the real world reputation of American soldiers in regards to civilians is among the least terrible. That's not to say they are ethical in an absolute sense, because there have been lots of sickening incidents, for instance abu ghraib, but nothing like the reputation of Russian or even Chinese soldiers.
If there is a glaring failure in this regard that continues to be an issue, it's with drone strikes and other weapons of mass destruction. You still don't have practices like what Russia is doing to Kiev, but the US is still way too quick to brush off "collateral damage". There is also a lot to criticize on how the US justifies it's interventions. The current attack on Iran is entirely unjustified, and it has plenty of support from both parties.
On the ground though, US frontline troops are among the best trained in the world at avoiding civilian casualties and cooperating with local populations. I'm sure that's getting worse under Hegseth, but US armed forces have been taught to question orders in ways that other great powers are reluctant to allow, especially Russia. If anyone is better it's some European forces, but the people who embrace this cartoon would not like that point since it's still "the west".
I really hate campism because the real war is with the global elites. Elites spend lots of money to promote the notion that what really matters is the fight between good and bad governments, always with different ideas of which is which. Meanwhile the elites themselves have no national allegiances. Trump clearly identifies far more as a member of the global elites than as an American. The elites are the enemy the left should be fighting.
Are you fucking serious? lmao. "I hate 'campists', BTW US soldiers are the most moral in the world unlike the soldiers of the evil orc people who are the enemies of the US." You're nothing but a racist and an American nationalist (I repeat myself). Really making it obvious why you had a problem with US soldiers specifically being criticized.
I'm (not) sorry to tell you this, but US soldiers are not more moral than Russian soldiers (a country which has done a fraction of the damage the US has done if even that) and CERTAINLY not more moral than Chinese soldiers who haven't gone to war in 40+ years.
And before you tell me you didn't say they were moral, you're not fooling anyone when you try to sneak it in with arguments about comparing "reputations".
I never said anything about orc people. Russian infantry have a reputation for brutality towards civilians and it's earned. They don't even really try to hide it. Russian isn't a "race". Also, what do you expect when Russia slaughters civilians wholesale and relies almost entirely on "meat wave" tactics. Whether the comparison to orcs is racist can be debated, but it's clear where it comes from.
My claim about US troops was that they were less terrible. Unfortunately, moral ground troops are hard to find in today's world. I also said they were better trained at certain things, and I stand by it. That's not in spite of their many deployments, it's because of it.
If you want to know about the PLA I suggest asking someone who faught them. Perhaps Japan. If you want more recent, then look at the tens of thousands of Tibetan civilians that were killed - most in labor camps. That's a bit worse than "collateral damage" from an errant missile. (And yeah, if it was an Israeli missile I think an investigation into how "accidental" it was is warranted.
I was also very critical of IS decisions to go to war in the first place and how they justify it, so what the fuck are you talking about? I'm not "sneaking" anything in. I said what I said because it was precisely what I meant.
Unlike you I don't pick a team before making my conclusions. There is shit that's good about the US, and stuff that isn't. Same is true of China. As for Russia and Israel, I'd love to say something good about them, but they make it pretty tough.
The fact that you think the US is better than Russia says enough about your imperial chauvinism, in my opinion. There's only one part of this comment I'll even bother replying to.
I never said anything about orc people. Russian infantry have a reputation for brutality towards civilians and it’s earned. They don’t even really try to hide it. Russian isn’t a “race”. Also, what do you expect when Russia slaughters civilians wholesale and relies almost entirely on “meat wave” tactics. Whether the comparison to orcs is racist can be debated, but it’s clear where it comes from.
You barely even took a sentence to go from "I didn't call them orc people" to defending calling them orc people. Again, I don't know who you think you're fooling with these kinds of rhetorical contortions.
Cancer is better than Russia, so that's no great achievement. My comment was that there is not much good to say about Russia. I notice you didn't point out something I missed, you just went straight to an ad hominem.
Yes, my point was both that I didn't say the thing you claimed was racist, and that it wouldn't have been racist anyways. No contortion, just you being wrong twice in one statement. And, again, you didn't bother arguing the point, you just went for yet another ad hominem. That's three if you count calling me racist.
Yes, my point was both that I didn’t say the thing you claimed was racist, and that it wouldn’t have been racist anyways.
Yeah, you said they weren't a race? So it's not racist to call an ethnicity orcs, because ethnicity is not race? That's barely an argument, though it is a racist one.
And, again, you didn’t bother arguing the point, you just went for yet another ad hominem. That’s three if you count calling me racist.
You are being racist. Even if you had said nothing else, the only reason to believe the US is acceptable in any way while Russia isn't is racism and chauvinism. As I said above, you did say something else and it was racist.
Cancer is better than Russia, so that’s no great achievement. My comment was that there is not much good to say about Russia. I notice you didn’t point out something I missed, you just went straight to an ad hominem.
I suspect all this "ad hominem" nonsense is posturing, but if you really think you're doing some great debate here, don't bother replying. I have no interest in "debating" with an American chauvinist with a Russia obsession, which I thought I had made clear with my previous replies.
"Russian" is an ethnicity, but it's also a nationality. Since we are talking specifically about Russian troops, its the nationality being criticized, not the ethnicity. Either way, I never called them orcs, I just pointed out that their behavior invites the comparison. You aren't much for subtlety, are you?
You are racist, lmao. Even if you had said nothing else, the only reason to believe the US is acceptable
Back to the ad hominems, and the misquoting. I never said the US is "acceptable". I have only spoken in favor of a single attribute of US ground troops, and I've been quite clear that there are many aspects of the US that are entirely unacceptable. The current war with Iran is entirely so, as have been many similar adventures.
if you really think you're doing some great debate here, don't bother replying.
There is only so "great" one can be at debating when the "arguments" are as bad and fabricated as yours.
Either way, I never called them orcs,
Yeah, you just went on a whole roundabout justification of other people doing it, that's very different. Here's a hint: someone who wasn't racist would have said "I never called anyone an orc" instead of doing that.
I never said the US is “acceptable”.
No, you've just made it clear that you can accept its existence and not the existence of Russia.
I have only spoken in favor of a single attribute of US ground troops
You uncritically repeated a single attribute of US ground troop propaganda, actually.
Back to the ad hominems, and the misquoting.
There is only so “great” one can be at debating when the “arguments” are as bad and fabricated as yours.
This isn't a "debate", I thought I had been pretty clear about that. I don't care to "debate" with someone who thinks America is better than Russia.
LOL, falling back on "That's propaganda!". The one lame trope you had yet to pull out. Well, calling any argument or fact that favors the west "propaganda" is also propaganda so there! I sure got you good.
No, you've just made it clear that you can accept its existence and not the existence of Russia.
It's getting really old pointing this but, no, I didn't say that either. If I tell someone that their behavior is unacceptable, that does not imply that their "existence" is unacceptable. To whatever extent you think I need to say it, I will say that Russia's continued existence is just fine with me. However, I'm done with this bullshit. You win, or whatever.
LOL, falling back on “That’s propaganda!”. The one lame trope you had yet to pull out. Well, calling any argument or fact that favors the west “propaganda” is also propaganda so there! I sure got you good.
OK, you can continue to believe the US has particularly moral ground troops whereas Russians are like orcs.
However, I’m done with this bullshit. You win, or whatever.
As I said, this isn't a debate. But I agree with you that we have nothing to say to each other.
we have nothing to say to each other.
And yet your jaw keeps flipping.
Don't pretend you're not trying to get the last word, lol.
I never said anything about orc people. Russian infantry have a reputation for brutality towards civilians and it’s earned. They don’t even really try to hide it. Russian isn’t a “race”. Also, what do you expect when Russia slaughters civilians wholesale and relies almost entirely on “meat wave” tactics. Whether the comparison to orcs is racist can be debated, but it’s clear where it comes from.
"I'm not racist but-"
but... what? But the thing you wrongly accused me of saying wouldn't have been racist anyways? That's not exactly the gotcha you were looking for.
Why is everybody from lemmy.ml so disingenuous in their arguments? It's almost like you have no legitimate arguments to make.
You immediately proceeded to weasle-word around saying you have no problem with a racist term
Whether the comparison to orcs is racist can be debated, but it’s clear where it comes from.
but it’s clear where it comes from.
This is racist. You are racist.
Sure buddy.
On the ground though, US frontline troops are among the best trained in the world at avoiding civilian casualties and cooperating with local populations.
Mask-off imperial soldier massmurderer detected
Your kind just murdered 153 children
You're even worse at lying than trump
Our ground troops, or airstrikes? Did you read my whole comment, or were you just looking for something to bitch about and stopped there?
Did Russia bomb any civilians today? How about yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that? You complaining about that too?
but nothing like the reputation of Russian or even Chinese soldiers.
Pardon me, but what exactly has the PLA done that's so egregious, so much so that it outshines Shock and Awe, Abu Ghraib, the kangaroo court and illegal execution of Saddam Hussein, years long bloody occupation of Iraq, slaughter in Fallujah, forced labor in Fallujah, The Haditha Massacre, with all that not even being the full extent of American crimes in Iraq, and that just being Iraq alone, not speaking on Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, and all the other places the US has waged illegal wars and pillaging abroad. To be frank, What the fuck are you talking about brother?
Ask Tibet.
Damn, who is this "Mr. Tibet"? Do you have his phone number?
China killed him.
Ok so now we're just doing religious discrimination?
The only good kind of discrimination.
Oh so you're awful. Got it 👍
Do you even know who the "l" in .ml stands for? Lenin was hardly a model of religious tolerance. He saw Christianity as a tool of oppression. On that much, I agree.
Yeah, it was bad when Lenin did it. It was arguable one of the worst things Lenin did. We're supposed to learn from that and not perpetuate it any further. Marxism is a science that evolves and we now understand religious discrimination was a mistake and horrible. You should not be perpetrating it today.
Why exactly is it bad? We don't protect any other ideas or fantasies that way. How is belief in a magic sky daddy really any more respectable than belief in a flat earth? I support the right of everyone to choose to believe in such things, but I don't see why they can't be made fun of. The US constitution protects religious belief from the state, but it doesn't protect it from mockery. That wasn't an accident. It's also not "religious discrimination".
You can respect other people even if you don't agree with their religious beliefs.
I don't think you understand "respect" any more than you understand "religious discrimination". I respect Christians so much that I think they can handle a little mockery and don't need special protection.
That is why public or state run universities should have their tuition fees paid through taxes instead of military service. If you decide to attend a private university, you are on your own.
"You see we really wanna turn Gaza into a resort. We don't want Iran to spoil this business venture."