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Somewhere around the majority of people employed in academia are absolutely useless.

I say this as an academic.

I wanted to get into academia for the pursuit of knowledge/love of wisdom and all that jazz. But I noticed some of the same stuff as you.

Curiosity and inquiry were not the main priority. There's a lot of red tape, faux pas, hoops to jump through, and you end up needing to do a lot of kowtowing, self-aggrandizing, and following the established narrative. And if you didn't intuitively know the social norms of academic culture, you were basically shunned as a hopelessly backwards outsider.

Part of the problem is the commodification of education (specific to the US, I presume). Grant writing and acquiring funding shouldn't be an exercise in marketing yourself as a product, but it is. Universities shouldn't be run like a business, faculty shouldn't be treated like labor, students shouldn't be treated like customers, and degrees shouldn't be treated like products, but they are. It's a serious problem and it degrades the value of education.

Another part is the gatekeeping in the peer-review system. I understand the desire to keep the nonsense out, and there's a way to do that without filtering out novel ideas and unpopular opinions. People tend to think that's an anti-science dogwhistle, but that's not how I mean it. A truly scientific mindset should keep an open mind about things that are unconfirmed, but a lot of scientific journals commit the fallacy of negating the antecedent: "there is not enough evidence to establish this, so it must not be true." There's never enough evidence to establish a new hypothesis at first, but that doesn't mean we should discourage formulating new hypotheses. A lot of scientific breakthroughs were initially viewed as crackpot theories.

I'm not talking about "do essential oils cure meningitis," I'm talking about "can a Big Crunch result in a cyclical universe?" Or "Can taichi improve health outcomes by exercising the circulatory, respiratory, endocrine, and nervous systems?"

Stuff that there's already enough scientific groundwork to demonstrate the validity of, but are still likely to get you dismissed as a crackpot if you bring it up in an academic setting.

There's also a lot of office politics to navigate. Which is easy if you're from a traditionally disenfranchised minority group. As much as they'll argue to the contrary, women, LGBTQ+, and people of color are privileged within the ivory tower of academia. I've been to honors conferences where I was only one of a few white dudes, and likely the only one who was hetero, and yet I had to sit through a key note speaker about underrepresentation of minorities in academia. I felt like I was being gaslit.

But if you're a white man and you try to claim something like "ecosystems deserve recognition of intrinsic value just like humans do," everyone will jump down your throat as if you're trying to reduce minorities to the ontological position of animals, rather than trying to raise the environment up ontologically to the position of humanity. As if everything is a zero-sum game. They view everything through the paradigm of capitalistic systems, even when trying to deconstruct them through some lofty armchair exercise in mental masturbation.

But if you try discussing the merits of collaboration towards common goals over self-serving competition, they'll think you're trying to take something away from minorities. They think everything is some shaded attempt at a dogwhistle, so you either have to walk on eggshells or just stay silent. Unless you're mindlessly parroting the established narrative.

And if you're competing for grants or a research position and you want to study the intersections of social ecology, deep ecology, and the land ethic, they'll easily take the brown woman who wants to study media depictions over you. Even though the field is saturated with papers on how minorities are depicted in the media, yet hardly anyone writes about social ecology. You really have to stick to the favored topics, and if you diverge at all then you'd better have some serious connections or otherwise be well-established in your field already.

And if you raise the slightest structural critique of academia, everyone thinks you're some anti-intellectual, anti-science, worm-brained right-winger. Even if your critique is that the structures of academia themselves are anti-intellectual and in some cases anti-science.

Oh but you also have to be careful about mentioning intellectualism, or they might think you're elitist! God forbid an outsider believes intelligence should get you farther in academia than emotional appeals do...

Brave to this comment man. This relates to so much of my own experience and what is so fucked up and self-destructive about academic life these.

God forbid you just want to do good research and teach your students factual knowledge and skills. Now it's just consumerism qua intellectualism and everyone is copying each other chasing 'success'.

I remember when I was in grad school a blogger/professor ran some stats on admissions in my field basic on public data and it showed clear and obviously biases and trends in PhD admissions and he was basically ousted from the field. Bea cause it didn't fit the narrative that somehow PhD admissions was this 'objective measure' of quality of a student's work and potential... when all it was was a measurement how famous your advisors were.

To be honest, I'm surprised it has 7 upvotes and 0 downvotes.

People will gaslight you about your experience not being real, that all your qualms are really just white supremacist dogwhistles or brainwashed into you by manosphere influencers, but ultimately all your problems are imaginary because you're a privileged white man who's been handed everything in life and has never had to suffer or struggle to get by in life, and the only reason you haven't done more with that privilege to simultaneously be successful and liberate everyone beneath you on the oppression scale (without being a white savior, of course) is because you're a selfish, self-serving, racist, sexist, chauvinist bigot.

The outright dismissal of the challenges you've faced with no option for appeal is just an extension of the same "men don't have feelings" and "be a man, suck it up, pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality that's so prevalent and harmful in society. But it comes from both sides: the side that actually believes it and wants you to conform to toxic, patriarchal standards of masculinity; and the side that only wants to weaponize that structural misandry against you because "you're a man so you deserve to be scorned," and they love an easy target to take out their ire on, because someone who was actually born into wealth, status, and privilege is too difficult to tear down so they go for someone more vulnerable like you and me whose maleness and whiteness is undeniable, but whose (lack of) social status, economic class, and the associated privileges get swept under the rug when you're reduced to biological factors beyond your control.

But if you raise a concern about how you're being treated they'll just accuse you of being a white supremacist or a misogynist because they view life as a zero-sum game, and they believe that in order to lift up and liberate/empower marginalized/disenfranchised minorities, they need to tear down individual white men regardless of their actual position on the food chain (starting with the lowest rungs, though, because low-hanging fruit).

And then they'll tell you that you have it wrong because "social justice isn't about that!!!" When yes, it shouldn't be, and it's not supposed to be. But in practice, that's how many people treat it, and your response gets categorically invalidated. It's like you're being beaten up for something that someone else did, and if you even so much as put your hands up to defend yourself everyone watching calls you a violent asshole and says "Nobody is hitting you!!! And if they are, you deserve it!"

There is no chance of class solidarity when everyone is so focused on external factors and campism. But you're not even allowed to respect yourself when someone else wants to treat you like a doormat.

Felt like I was reading a journal entry.

A journal would never publish the opinions I stated above. Also I was formulating my language more colloquially than I would have if I was trying to publish.

I’m from Canada. We commodify education but not nearly as much as the US.

The anglosphere needs to stop following the US example, because it's a death spiral...

Oh, I see. That makes more sense.

Oh yea they need to focus on stem that does research providing resources for volunteering in labs or what not. the school i used to got o was so stingy about it, most dont get the experience they need before they graduate, a very small subset do

When I was in art school our TA's were making 20k a year but stilling on 50k - 100k in student debt. They'd all been to bigger, more prestigious art schools, and they were barely getting by. And each of these schools was churning out hundreds or thousands of students every year.

That convinced me to take a different direction in life. Glad I did. I'm still a working artist and make a good living with it as a side hustle, but I'm glad I don't have to live with the uncertainty.

a lot of your TAs didn't have that debt. They had trust funds.

I was in grad school and one of the reason I left is I learned I was basically the only person in my program who was paying my own way... and that most of my professors... also came from money. And they were all shocked that I actually lived entirely on my stipend.

And you can find stats on this. The majority of med students, for example, come from upper income homes. Just like the majority of students at elite schools, also do, and the majority of admits to med schools come from better schools...

it was all dick measuring contests and covert social signalling

this exists in most professions.

It aint just academia.

useless to who? You?

academia is not an enterprise that is about usefulness. one of the reasons it's collapsing so poory, and education more broadly, is the narrow minded insistence that it must be useful in terms of economic productivity.

it can and does have many uses, the question is to whom and for what, and oftentimes those are politically loaded.

What I mean is that most of these people are self interested fools who are nowhere near as knowledgeable as they believe themselves to be.

Most in that category are also not very good at their jobs, which leads to administrative bloat, torturously ineffective bureaucracy, and teaching positions going to whoever is best at politicking rather than the person who is better at teaching.

I don’t care at all about economic usefulness.

I'm not arrogant enough to assume I know what other people know and don't know. Every prof I had always had lots of knowledge of things I had no knowledge of. But that's what it means when everyone is specialized.

Oh yea, i noticed that to in some areas like certain PI are very protective of their reputation even compromising thier professionalism over it, like i had one that is very against giving any "references" to people unless you met his nebelous circumstances. most of its stems of himb eing in his native american heritege. in his mind he thinks people will "Tarnish" him in some way or his research or steal his credit somehow,,,etc.

alot of these tenures prevent people from applying to faculty positions too, because they will never leave til they die.

dint realize how much fluff pieces a phd produces just to get noticed on thier CV. writing dozens of papers, that likely arnt very good quality has irked people who is into the research field.

I had the opposite experience before I left, but it sure pays like shit. Could be a little university dependent I suppose.

my undergrad experience was awesome, but my grad experience was bad.

really good schools/programs can isolate you from the shitshow and actually are very professional. but they are rare.

it could also have been you meshed with the politics of your school. i very much meshed with the politics of my undergrad dept, but was a pariah in my grad program for those very same politics/values.

Maybe?

I ran a lab at my school for about 10 years so I feel like my take might be a little more holistic. I'm not at all discounting you but the politics of a university are pretty layered.

it's also the culture. some schools are more inclusive and others are exclusive. my undergrad was a more inclusive place than my grad school. my grad school was like 95% white.

Somewhere around the majority of people employed in academia are absolutely useless.

I thought this was common knowledge lol

Nudity alone - without the intent to shock or arouse - shouldn't be taboo, criminal, or censored.

I'm sure I have a bunch, but for the fediverse I think the most controversial is that I think neopronouns are a bad idea. DISCLAIMER I support queer folks, and I also use neopronouns when requested (because there's zero reason to be a dick about it), but I think everybody would be better off without them.

The entire purpose of pronouns is to offer a quick, generic (i. e. non-individual) way of referring to people or objects without using their names. Using neopronouns which have to be communicated and learned first is the opposite of that. So in my view they're not really pronouns, just additional names one has to learn for a person.

I think the most sensible way of accommodating all genders is using whatever pronouns are present in the language (usually male and female, or a generic pronoun), plus a non-binary pronoun if needed, like singular they in English.

Being mtf or ftm trans is conforming to gender stereotypes with extra steps. Abolishing gender stereotypes and letting everyone express themselves however they want would be far better for society overall.

I don't mean that in a negative way and fully support respecting self identification because that has the best outcomes in the real world.

I've also thought about that a bit. The way I see it, transgender people definitely are following local cultural terms. Not the ones that they are expected to follow, but still.

What's considered masculine or feminine isn't standard across different cultural contexts either. For example, wearing skirts or pink aren't exclusively feminine. In a western context they currently are, so that's why western MTFs are currently inclined to wear those.

However, that wasn't always the case. If the same person had been born a few centuries ago, pink would not have meant the same thing, and they they would have probably felt differently about that color. Also, what westerners would consider a skirt these days, can be a masculine or gender neutral piece of clothing in other cultures. Even today, there are place where mean wear something that westerners would call a skirt.

Not all mtfs wear skirts or conform to gender stereotypes. In my case it's more about feeling dysphoria with my body/hormones and wanting to change that (and then presenting in a way that looks normal for my gender in the society I happen to be in), but I'm also nonbinary, so there's that.

Yeah, I just brought up the skirts because they sit in a particularly strange cultural niche. Nail polish, specific hairstyles, and high heels are currently considered feminine, but I couldn't think of how to use any of them in an interesting example.

Just as you said, people usually want to look normal. In order to do that that, they'll gravitate towards whatever cultural gender norm they consider most fitting for them. Obviously, there's variety in this matter, just like there is in everything else. There are always exceptions to whatever generalizations I make.

Non-binary people are an interesting group though. Don't know any IRL, but I've been watching a few YT videos made by them. In this biased sample, they don't seem to even want to fit any box. Some wear neutral clothes, some prefer bright colors. Seems like a diverse group to me. How about you then?

I fall under the nonbinary umbrella as I used to be genderfluid - my gender would change over time between feminine, agender, and masculine, and now it's just genderflux as I oscillate between agender (no gender identity) and varying levels of femininity. (I plot it on a scale where G1=fully masculine, G5=agender, and G10=fully feminine. I used to go between G4 and G10 (mostly around G5-7), but recently it's been more between G5 to G10 (with most of the time between G6-8) - so I've gotten more feminine over time.) And this is to do with my internal identity, mostly defined by levels of dysphoria/euphoria and how I feel about my body, not how I present.

I present mostly fairly unambiguously feminine though, maybe slightly tomboyish/gender neutral as I generally wear T shirts and jeans and stuff as opposed to say dresses. I do paint my nails, style my hair, wear makeup

In spite of feeling somewhat masculine to a varying degree, you still present feminine. I guess that's not how you would prefer to present, now is it? If the people around you had no issues with it, would you go with a more agender or masculine style?

No, I present how I prefer to present. I don't really know what an agender style would be, and I don't like wearing masculine styles - since my gender doesn't really go to that part of the spectrum anymore

Oh, sorry. I got the numbers wrong. You clearly said G6-8, but I just didn’t have my brain switched on. 😃

I don't fully understand. Can you give a concrete example? Like you meet someone who seems like a woman to you, they say they're a man, and you're like, "no, no, you're a woman, I reject your self identification of being a man"?

I don't see you as less of a person, I don't see you as a bother, I don't see you as challenging to my views or, a shock at all, really.

I guess the cold hard truth is that I just don't care.

If you wear your gender as your first, most outstanding personality trait, it doesn't speak much for the rest of you.

Do I care if you keep it up, don't stop and tell everyone you know? Have at it.

It's just not my business. It's not important in the grand scheme of whether or not you're an asshole. Your shoe size is more indicative of who you are, to me, anyway.

I recognize the concepts of feminine and masculine and the blends of both, but I suppose that just doesn't tell me a lot about who you are, how you are, what your interests are or your life.

I could ponder stereotypes, get an idea for who you are based on telling me you're trans, but listen to how that sounds.

Would you want me to have an idea about you from one word, without even knowing you?

Huh. I was going to write my own reply but I will defer to your argument, it perfectly encapsulates how I see it too, no notes.

Do you just never use gendered language in real life?

I don't think about it. I don't understand the question, honestly. I see people as men or women, short or tall, blue eyed or brown eyed, they come they go. It's not important to me how they see themselves, it doesn't interfere with my daily business or interactions with people, I try my best to treat everybody with respect and mind my own business. They can think they're the Queen of England for all I care.

Sure, but if you're gonna claim that trans people having either binary gender identity is necessarily conformity to gender stereotypes, then you need to accept that a cis person being either a man or a woman is even more so.

So the thing is, deviating from the norm is always going to be a bigger thing that just going with the flow.

There are masculine women, feminine men, and a wide spectrum in between. Many drag queens are playing the role of exaggerated gender stereotypes without identifying as a woman outside their act. A woman wearing pants was a huge thing in the US in the last century and that was just about not needing to follow gender norms separate from self identification. Cis doesn't mean actively choosing to conform to gender stereotypes, it just means accepting the label society slapped on the person.

Yeah, and? All that is true of trans people, too.

You don't actually know that. You can identify as male, female, nonbinary, agender, genderfluid etc. all while conforming or not conforming to male or female gender stereotypes. One is intrinsic, the other extrinsic.

But what does it mean to be male if you reject all social definitions of maleness?

That's a good question to which no clear general answer can be given. What's considered male is a huge spectrum of things, both material and immaterial, varying across generations and cultures.

But most importantly, what it means to be male is very different from what it means to be seen as male.

The fact that you have to define yourself as conforming or non-conforming is what's being griped here.

No you don't. It's extrinsic, I literally just said that.

Oh damn, you just reminded me of something way more controversial I forgot about.

I remember when I was younger, maybe about 20 or so, and I was still questioning whether or not I was trans. I was living with an armchair-anarchist at the time, and he frequently lended me controversial leftist literature to "broaden my horizons" and whatever lol

Well, there was one book that stuck with me more than anything else, simply called "Work!" and was all about dismantling the inherent perceptions of capitalist bias in labor. It had a chapter on nearly every aspect of society, and touched on how these things were impacted and molded by the systems around it.

And then I hit the chapter Gender. And I'll never forgot this passage.

To them, sex change surgery is just yet another industry to be marketed towards the proletariat, another product with which you can fix yourselves. For in a world with such concrete gender norms, capitalism would have you believe that these roles are more natural than your own bodies.

Do they decry other cosmetic surgery as well? I'd argue breast implants are way more harmful to society than sex change operations.

I'm trans. I'm a woman. I don't have my ears pierced, I rarely wear makeup, I don't do my nails, I haven't shaved my legs in coming up on 2 years. I don't understand femininity, and I perform it to the bare minimum standard, because if I don't, I face extra exclusion, hostility and questioning.

What I'm trying to get at, is that I don't really care about "expressing myself". Abolishing gender stereotypes would absolutely make my life easier, and I guarantee I'm doing more to undo the power they hold over people than you ever will, whilst you sit there and judge trans people for upholding the system that punishes them far more than it will ever punish you.

I don’t understand femininity, and I perform it to the bare minimum standard, because if I don’t, I face extra exclusion, hostility and questioning.

So the exact thing I said, which was observational and not judgemental.

It was absolutely a judgement, because it's an opinion you shared in a "what's your controversial opinion" thread. if you didn't carry judgement within your opinion, you wouldn't be sharing it here.

I will also highlight that you ignored pretty much the bulk of my post, where I expressly highlight my rejection of stereotypes, and my lack of understanding them, and their implicit lack of relationship with my identity, to focus on a single sentence that provided literally no detail to exclaim the veracity of your claim.

You came in with an opinion that puts the onus for fixing the harm caused by gender stereotypes on trans people, despite trans people being less in a position to challenge that system than you are, whilst being more aggressively punished for challenging it than you are. You ignored the voices of trans people telling you about their experience and relationship, whilst never owning your own responsibility and involvement in the system.

So no, you were not "observing". You were judging and holding trans people to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

Dude literally is saying that you, as a woman, shouldn't have to conform to feminine stereotypes that you don't intrinsically want to conform to.

No, what he's saying that being trans is "conforming to gender stereotypes" and that if we got rid of stereotypes, trans people would be able to express themselves how they want, without having to be trans.

Which is to say, he's suggesting that trans women are all trying to be feminine, and if there was a way for men to be feminine without societal push back, trans women wouldn't need to exist. He doesn't explicitly state the last bit, but that's what he really means, and it's why he considers his position controversial

When I made a post going in to detail about the lack of relevance feminine gender stereotypes have to my day to day life, despite the fact that I'm transgender, he largely ignored it, despite that being the basis of his "opinion"

Sounds like you care more about having the trans label than people actually being free to express themselves.

What I care about is people who aren't trans, trying to erase trans people, by blaming them for the system that oppresses them, whilst letting themselves off the hook for propping up the same system.

Totally understandable that you as a trans woman would need to be vigilant for transphobia. But you find what you look for and right now your transphobia alarm is giving you a false positive here.

Cuz that is not what buddy said, at all.

Go and re-read the post of the guy you're defending.

His opening sentence was literally "Being mtf or ftm trans is conforming to gender stereotypes with extra steps"

He is quite openly saying that without gender stereotypes, trans people wouldn't exist, and that trans people are really just folk who are too caught up in gender stereotypes. He continues to express that opinion even after trans people directly and openly talk about their identity and how it is distinct from stereotypes.

I've been having these discussions for a decade or more now. I know red flags, I know dog whistles, and I know why those things are problematic. And to be frank, you don't.

Oh I can tell you've been looking for transphobia anywhere you can find it for a decade. It's obvious.

You just keep confirming that you care more about having a label than about people being able to express their gender identity freely.

Believe it or not, you don't speak for everyone who isn't cis.

Believe it or not, you don't speak for all everyone who isn't' cis.

The only person in this conversation trying to speak for all trans people is the person you're defending

It's telling that the only fault you see is in the voice of a trans person defending themselves, and not in the voice of the person saying that trans people don't actually exist, they're just people confused about stereotypes

You came in with an opinion that puts the onus for fixing the harm caused by gender stereotypes on trans people

Oh, I see. You think that because I wrote two related sentences and put them next to each other that the only possible reading was that the subject of the first must be the only group that needs to abolish conforming to gender stereotypes.

I meant what I said, they should be abolished and that would require everyone. I'm sure you won't reconsider your first reading though, since you have clearly dug in your heels on replies to the other poster.

Tell me you never interact with trans people without telling me you never interact with trans people

Plastic straw pollution doesn't have a measurable impact on the environment.

The entire thing about banning plastic straws comes from some high schooler using back-of-a-napkin math to guess how many straws are in the ocean in what was clearly a successful attempt at starting a science fair project the night before it was due. Some news station picked it up, and then a bunch of science-illiterates ran away with it.

You can't determine the impact of pollution by count. Straws are tiny and weigh almost nothing. If you skip buying one pair of sneakers in your life, then you've successfully reduced your plastic use by almost a lifetime of plastic straws.

Removing plastic straws is probably the single least impactful way to reduce plastic pollution. It's pure virtue signaling: it's about presenting an image of being environmentally conscious while doing effectively nothing to help the environment.

Everyone (including kids and teens) should have full bodily autonomy. This includes how they express gender. Parents should not be allowed to circumcise/mutilate their kids' genitals for reasons that aren't medically necessary, nor should they be allowed to lay their hands on their kids in a violent way (and yes, that includes "only" spanking). Parents who hit/spank their kids should be charged with assault and child abuse.

Kids and teens having basic rights might not be controversial here, but in the rural area that I'm from, it certainly is.

The US isn't the great Satan, they are quite contemporary satan. Russia, China and Iran are all imperialist, anti democratic and have even worse human rights violations.

You don't have to pick a side, these are all asshats, some more than other though.

Following "if it isn't harmful, it's not a problem" as a guideline, incest isn't immoral if it doesn't involve large power imbalance (e.g.: parent and offspring) and doesn't produce offspring.
If the relationship, be it purely romantic or otherwise is mutually desired and fully consensual (usual requirements), then I don't see how it would be different from other non-standard relationships.

I hope that's plenty controversial.

If the two individuals aged for a significant part of their lives together, offsprings are not the only "harm".

Forming relationships with people that are different (as in, not relatives) helps avoid the bad parts of the family structure (the weird beliefs, opinions, behaviours, etc, that are taught within a family but are not accepted outside of it). Without that, you can end up with something that seems like "cultural inbreeding" where the weirdness persists and grows, until it reaches weird shit.


On a side note

Arguably a similar effect already happens in western countries thanks to xenophobia, and that's why you have people that care so much about transmitting their DNA and having their own biological kids as if it mattered. This is just the remnants of a deeply racist culture that believes that you need to preserve your family line, and with it, your DNA. If people were mixing more with other cultures and origins, this would seem much more absurd.

Forming relationships with people that are different (as in, not relatives) helps avoid the bad parts of the family structure

That is an argument from utility, which can most certainly be debated. What constitutes "bad"? That is a subjective interpretation.

where the weirdness persists and grows, until it reaches weird shit.

And how do we define "weird shit"? Are "normal" relationships not "weird shit" and don't they lead to "weird shit"?

their DNA and having their own biological kids as if it mattered.

Well, it matters to them. Therefore, it matters. Doesn't it? It does to them.

Genuinely just poking at arguments here, I have no decided opinion either way.

It's more of a question of what is healthy psychologically. Staying to close to one group socially makes a sort of echo chamber, and that's always a problem.

And that's what I mean with "weird shit", things like racism are quite known to be increased in people that are not in contact with people of color for example. Echo chambers are generally bad, and I feel like this would create a very strong one ("us against the world" and whatnot)

DNA doesn't matter when it comes to kids if you don't have a background thought that is at least a bit problematic. It's not about what matters to them only, but also about what is morally wrong. This "DNA is everything" thing is extremely toxic

I mean, homeschooling can definitely cause that kind of issue.

The difference being that there are good sides to it too, while there are no good sides coming from incest, and trying to equate the two seems a bit far fetched and incoherent.

What can be good about it that a normal relationship cannot provide?

I can't imagine a single answer. Thus, "nothing good about it" seems accurate.

With the difference being that incest brings a lot of problems that other relationships don't. Offsprings are one, I mentioned others, and I'm sure you could find more.

This is also a weird case, because the problem with age difference is maturity, which is not measurable as of now. A 30 years old dating a 50 years old is weird, but less than a 20 years old dating a 40 years old, and yet all of these also can vary based on individuals. And most people wouldn't see a problem with a 70 years old going with a 90 years old. That's why it's struggle to make well-defined laws about it.

For incest, once again, the problems are the norm, and then maybe you can find some exceptions. But why push it to be fine and allowed, when it doesn't bring anything, again? It's just opening for more issues to come, with no real benefit because incest is, in most cases rather than not, a problem.

And how do you prevent problems of offsprings, or of dominant position? Do you have to sterilize by force people in such relationships, after having them investigated to check that the relationship is actually consensual? Who would need to have sex with their relative so much that they would want to go through all this? That's why I'm saying that it just feels like a lot of trouble and problems, for nothing good.

Most of the other problems I mentioned are about being raised or growing together. So in your example, it probably would be mostly fine.

My main point is, what does it bring to try to make exceptions when the only exceptions that are not bad are very, very unlikely, and do not bring anything more than any other relationship would?

In your case, sure, the two sisters could get together, fine. But if they got together while knowing they are from the same family, it does raise a weird point, and if they did not know then fine. But how many offspring-free relationships between two people that didn't know they were related, exist? How many of those last? I cannot imagine such a big proportion, so what is the point of making an exception, that on the other hand will bring in a lot of problems and creepy behaviours trying to fit in it.

I get what you’re going for here. But another caveat to add would be that the people in this sort of relationship shouldn’t have children.

Which is in my 1st sentence.

Do you think people with autism, downs syndrome, or cognitive impairments should have kids?

That's ok. You don't have to like what other people think. I don't always like what other people think either. But it's good to challenge and think through ones positions, I think everyone benefits from that. I think it's critical, in fact.

(great thread BTW!)

Not the person you asked, but you and everyone reading your comment know that's not a good faith argument.

The reason incest is frowned upon and often illegal is because of the danger it poses to any potential offspring. Many genetic diseases rely on recessive traits that require both parents to carry the recessive trait in order for it to be exposed. If two biological siblings have a child, that child would therefore have a massive amount of recessive traits exposed since both parents would share a massive amount of DNA

At a population scale, genetic diversity is critical to survival of a population, and a collapse of genetic diversity through too much inbreeding tends to lead to a very unhealthy population that can be easily wiped out through disease. This is much less of a risk with random incest today thanks to how much humans move around these days, but the flip side is that there is some risk of this from so called "super surrogates" who have genetically fathered hundreds or thousands of kids. The likelyhood of these kids meeting and reproducing can be quite high, which can therefore noticably reduce genetic diversity in a population, and ultimately reduce the health of a population

I wouldn't call the argument a bad faith argument. Perhaps there is a line somewhere, but ultimately, his argument is that "two people who have an increased chance of passing on genetic disorders can't have children/have a relationship".

For most people, when asked this question outside of the incest framing, would argue that the state has no role to dictate that line. The slope is too slippery and screams too much like eugenics. It's only within the social taboo of incest do people think that argument is acceptable.

I think it is a very topical argument- mind you I am genuinely not taking a position, I am exploring the logical consequences of the argument. There are pitfalls in the line or reasoning going on the argument that they are making. This is how philosophical discourse works. It's how arguments and logic works. Being emotional about it is fine, but it's not conducive to exploring the consequences of the argument.

The reason incest is frowned upon and often illegal is because of the danger it poses to any potential offspring.

The purely hypothetical counter argument here would be that what constitutes a "defect" or "danger" is highly subjective and prone to abuse. Where do we draw the line? Either there is no line and anyone can freely breed offspring, or we are in dangerous territory where we are determining which qualities we as a society deem "unwanted". What do we mean by "defect"? What do we mean by "unwanted"?

At a population scale, genetic diversity is critical to survival of a population, and a collapse of genetic diversity through too much inbreeding tends to lead to a very unhealthy population

Well that is an argument from utility. Who is to say that people must subject themselves to the "critical survival of a population"? What if people don't care? If they refused to, what would we do? Force them not to breed, by, say sterilizing them? Surely you see the issue here.

i think autism is alot different from DOWN syndrome. with DOWN there is a genetic/chromosomal abnormality which puts you at a very high risk, and should consult a genetic counselor

The Habsburgs have entered the chat...

That one writer on Community agrees with you lol

Now here's a man who knows how to marry his cousin!

Suicide should be a human right. You should have to prove that you're of sound mind and that you've considered and tried all other options. But once you've proven you're not manic, psychotic, intoxicated, being coerced, etc and no other option will reasonably bring you peace you should be able to do it and get help making sure you don't get stuck halfway or receive comfort care only until it's over. Also every psych unit I've worked requires suspension of a DNR which terrifies me for involuntary admits.

  • Some people absolutely need to be killed for the greater good of society.

Some people shouldn't have kids, and some children probably shouldn't be born.

Not a serious one, but my hot take is that helping people move is fun!

Alot of people complain about it, but think about it. You get to spend quality time with friends or family, get a little exercise, teamwork, and usually at the end of the day you get to share a well-earned meal together

Religious indoctrination is child abuse.
Sending your kids to places of worship or a religious school, or telling them "this is our religion", is child abuse.
This includes christofascists and oppressed minorities.

I'm on the fence as to whether telling your child they are a girl or a boy is similarly harmful.

Apartments and big cities are hell. People shouldn't be shoved together like sardines.

Sunny weather fucking sucks. Overcast is by far the best weather. You don't have to deal with sun in your eyes, or glare or feeling like your skin is burning after 30 minutes of standing outside. You can still see everything just fine.

I got to live in San Francisco for a few years and going outside to 10 C cloudy, foggy or overcast weather (almost) everyday was amazing. It was literally the most perfect weather I have ever experienced and the only thing I miss about that city.

People have gotten way too comfortable with censoring speech. I understand the fight against intolerance and propaganda and how hopeless that fight can feel, but we've sometimes taken things too far and that's only going to hurt us in the end. The left is not going to be the one that will take these compromises to the limit. We will be the most hurt by every bit of erosion we allowed to happen.

Specifically, I'm referring to efforts to get right wing platforms taken down not by being banned by a Facebook or Twitter or something, but by attacking the infrastructure on which a right wing website it run (such as attempts to get Truth social shut down by going after AWS, ISPs and other basic Internet infrastructure). It's a similar approach as is sometimes done when they target payment processors and trying to shame them into banning these platforms from processing payments.

These types of attacks on speech should never be allowed no matter if it's the left or the right. We can ban people from our private business or gathering place, but we shouldn't be able to stop them from creating their own. And no, basic Internet infrastructure shouldn't get to play the 'private business' card. They are effectively the roads, utilities and other generic infrastructure of the digital age.

Those attacks are no different from the right's constant attacks on abortion clinics by attempting to subject them to needless and pointless regulations meant for full hospitals. Or as if we'd allowed a water company to start selectively shutting off water to places they don't like.

We need more protections for the neutrality of infrastructure (both physical and digital) and keep the fights firmly restricted to end user platforms. Lest we find that someday our enemies have taken these tactics and beat us with them with far greater ruthlessness than we'd ever use.

Apparently saying new Star Trek is trash writing is enough to get banned from certain instances.

Vegans shouldn't have pets. If the ethos of veganism is consent for the things others give then it should be thought of as slavery for them to own any, especially if they feed a carnivorous animal a vegan food alternative.

People get mad at me for thinking it's morally better to adopt than to jump through hoops to concieve your own child. There are actual children already alive who need a home. It's wasteful to bring new people into the world when there are already children in need. If you can't love someone else's child as much as your own, you shouldn't be a parent. I'm not saying nobody should have their own children ever. If you get pregnant and you want children, by all means, keep it. I just object to going to great lengths to conceive your own child when you could give a home to someone in need.

This is a tricky subject to approach, since it can be reduced to a really hurtful or even misogynist slogan, but I'd like to see more physical comedy in media involving women. Think running into walls, smacked by a spinning plank, or depending on the cartoon believability of the media, crushed by a falling piano.

I started a longer writeup of why that's "important" to me but before I bend over backwards to defend it I'm curious what others think.

"Money" isn't needed and there are enough resources available on earth so no one goes without.

There is no moral way to raise a cat.

Either they live inside and live an entire life in a few thousand square feet at best for 16-20 years, or you let them outside to hunt and they kill tons of wildlife and are exposed to becoming roadkill/coyote food etc.

My personal dodge is to adopt old cats that have already been indoctrinated into inside life and who could never be let out anyway.

It's controversial in countries like Australia...

We need to standardise English, and we need to accept the US won in spelling.

Conversely, the US needs to accept they lost the metric/imperial war and start changing their shit to be less stupid.

What the fuck is 90 stone? How long is 2.5 miles? Pounds = lbs? How? (Okay US doesn't use stone)

Don't get me started on the "19 hamburgers is equal to 5 eagles" memes.


Also, everyone needs to accept the ISO date format.

YYYY-MM-DD

You're objectively wrong if you think any other format is comparable.


Also also, you can keep using feet and inches for your own height as long as you're between 5-6 feet.

Otherwise I get confused.

No state that is in the Eastern Time Zone is a part of the Midwest.

Pennsylvania I could give you, but Ohio and Michigan? I guess it depends on what Midwest means to you, but as a cultural identity I would strongly disagree. But hey, that's why we're in the thread, right?

Not Indiana? Where would you put Hoosiers then? the east coast? great lakes? Appalachia? if we're not midwest then we're on a weird little island between everything else

we’re on a weird little island between everything else

New state slogan

we could do worse

Great Lakes or Rust Belt, take your pick.

great lakes perhaps, but you would put Gary, which is basically Chicago, in the rust belt?

Have you been to Gary?

You should not expect your native culture to follow you when you move abroad.

Adapt or leave.

Euthanasia should be legal and encouraged for people with terminal diseases like dementia. Suicide should be legally available to all citizens too

You should always look in the oven before turning it on.

Seems simple to me. Before making the oven hot, make sure there's nothing in there you don't want to get hot (and that the racks are in the right place.) Takes maybe a second.

But a lot of people seem to find the idea that they (or anyone in their household) would ever leave something in the oven, when not cooking, to be deeply offensive.

Cold drinks that have to be cold to be good, are bad.

If you want your drink to be good, it has to be competitively good at room temperature, first.

Aight I got one, I believe the elderly are less valid than the young and should have a lot of their privileges taken away. No voting once you hit retirement, no more driving, they should be entirely at the mercy of public infrastructure and if it's not good enough for them then too bad. They had their entire life to build a better future and look where we are now. The senior vote has practically enabled fascism and they deserve more hatred for the way they think and behave. Especially since they are dependent on the young to bring in enough taxes to pay for their pension.
Anyways, let's see who this upsets most 😅

ITT people posting lots of things I don’t find controversial at all.

Ranked voting. Fined heavily if you don’t. Politicians need to reveal their donors and sponsorships and lobbyists at the start of every speech like a YouTube reviewer does when they receive something for free. We shouldn’t need sites that reveal who is owned by AIPAC, etc.

Stupid people exist.

I mean this actively: stupid people aren't theoretical brings who exist outside this discussion we are having here. Many people in this thread qualify. There's regular stupid, which is just most people. That's the benign kind of stupid which maybe is indicative of a lack of training or bad circumstances for learning in earlier life. You can also find double down stupid in this thread. The flat earth conspiracy, "consciousness" mysticism, and can barely craft a sentence kind of stupid.

The general public is even worse.

People are all willing to admit that stupid exists, but most won't point the finger. Close your eyes and point and you'll hit someone, bless their hearts.

I support Age Verification

(Not to be confused with: I like Age Verification.)

For a few reasons.

    1. The government already has all of your info and is spying on you from any device with a camera or microphone and wireless connection and without a warrant or meaningful accountability. We know this objectively because the FBI, desperate to look competent, inadvertently publicized footage obtained illegally in the Guthrie case that shouldn't have existed.
    1. It's not 2014. We have enough information now to know definitively that social media (and increasingly, use of LLM's) is harmful to children's mental health, and that its negative effects are more pronounced on developing brains. (Though they affect adults as well.) These systems harm a person's mental health and cognitive abilities, and while this bit is anecdotal, I know several teachers who struggle to teach kids because they're no longer able to focus on anything for more than sixty seconds. (And the question: "Why do I have to know this if an AI can do it for me?" is becoming a common refrain.)
    1. Private entities also already have your data. Go look yourself up on spokeo.com or some other background check site if you don't think so. (And be sure to put in a request there to have your info deleted while you're at it.) Or sub to a deletion service that will remove it for you.
    1. People say that to cut kids off from social media will isolate them, but I grew up in a world where we only had email, chat rooms, snail mail, and land lines, and somehow we magically made friendly connections anyway. It's a nonsense argument, and ignores that social media itself is isolating people to a much greater extent.

Essentially, I think Age Verification is the lesser of two huge evils, and I don't expect the government in my country to force social media companies to disclose and change their algorithms to eliminate the harm being done to kids, so Age Verification becomes a necessary evil. (Hopefully a short-term one, but we'll see.) The social media companies have too much money for any civil suit to meaningfully impact them financially.

Upvoted because it is a controversial take.

My problem with age verification is that what we're being sold is not what we're going to get.

"Choosing the lesser of two evils" implies that only two options exist. When the same companies are responsible for both evils, we should be talking alternatives, not letting them make us decide between getting punched in the face and giving up our lunch money to make it stop.

My reply here.

Tl;dr:

  • Support decentralized alternatives*
  • Exercise parental controls on-device and IRL
  • Teach the children what we learned

It's not a magic bullet, but it's better than putting the Epstein class in charge of protecting the children.

*Obviously, there are cesspools on the Fediverse, too. But we're incentivized and empowered to curate and to moderate these spaces, in ways that we're not on Twitter.

One of the pros of age verification vs parental controls I could see is the social aspect. I could definitely block my child from accessing social media but if all of their friends are on there then I feel like I am stifling their social life. It just doesn't like there is a good solution. However with age restrictions, no kid is getting on social media, and so they will be forced to come up with alternatives for socializing together.

There is no 'we' in your hypothetical, unless you're sitting on a billionaire fortune or a member of the Epstein class.

The only power you or I have is local, and this is a national problem.

There is no 'we' in your hypothetical

We is everyone that isn't those companies and is impacted by social media.

The only power you or I have is local, and this is a national problem.

We do have little power on a national level, but that doesn't mean the only power we have is local.

Sure, we can't flip a switch tell the engineers to program a switch and flip it for us like Musk and Zuckerberg can, but that's not the only power that matters.

We can build and support alternatives to addictive, enshittified centralized tech (like the Fediverse). I was offered the "choice" of accepting a degraded Twitter experience or paying for Twitter premium. I chose to check out Mastodon.

We can use the parental controls we do have, both inside the ecosystem and in the real world. No screens in the bedroom or at the dinner table. No smartphone until you're 16. Schools that ban phones in the classroom. Venues that ban phones during shows.

Edit: Another option is educating ourselves and our children to be safe on the internet. I had to learn that the correct response to "what are you wearing" is "a robe and wizard hat" and then blocking the pedophile all on my own because my parents didn't know those threats even existed. I do. Most parents in 2026 do.

I'm not imaginative, but we have a lot more power than just choosing between "let it suck forever" and "give up even more of your privacy and I'll pretend to fix the problems I created/encouraged because I make more money that way."

I agree that they're not mutually exclusive. I wasn't saying that they were.

I was pushing back against the idea that age verification is the best and only reasonable response to our internet problems (the "lesser of two evils" argument).

I personally exclude age verification when other, better options - like the ones mentioned above - exist and haven't even been tried.

It's like watching someone try to build a fire, fail, and then chuck a grenade in the firepit.

It's easy, but it's not going to get you the result you were hoping for and it's likely to make everything worse.

I'm not against age verification as a concept. But I don't think the current solutions will actually protect children. They are simply a further attack on privacy. We will have less privacy and our kids will still be just as unsafe as before.

And I give it less than 6 months before this data is used for something other than protecting kids. It's absolutely just going to be used to target LGBT content or something.

I support it as well. In my country we already have ID verification that goes through banks. I can log into my healthcare system etc. by it.

Just branch out a service to social media sites that answers only one question: Is this person over 18? Yes/No.

They don't need anything else. By extension, this also answers the question if someone is a real person. Which is another thing I think we need on social media. Yes, maintain public anonymity but there needs to be some verification that they are a real person.

(Also, Spokeo got nothing on me, wohoo)

It certainly can work in a country where the government doesn't regularly use identification maliciously. The US for example does have a long history of spying and acting against their own citizenry and in that setting it is really hard to come up with a system where people aren't being tracked by the requesting party or the age verification party for the government to spy on everyone.

Glad it works where you live.

Same here. Looked up an old email and it wasn't my name lol. Good news I guess?

Yeah. Those pedovores want to protect our children by knowing on the tracking devices if it's a child that's using it.

You want co controversial?! Ok
I think we should be able to decide our own deaths if we want too, and that should be law. Depresion is real, yes, but a lot of people want to LITERALLY impose life into others. Not only talking about end stage or crippling disease but also psychological issues so bad living with it is torture. You reading this and disagreeing are doing it becuse you afe either religious, and you are imposing your religion into others, or someone else would feel bad, regardless if the person lives in agony, they have to live to not make someone else sad. "I don't want my son to take his life" YOU YOU YOU.

Of course I think there should be procedures and controls in place, like +21, 1 or 2 years mandatory psychiatric follow up, if you have youngs kid you also can't. But if you are an adult, no kids, fuck your opinion dude, it's their life their choice.

David Bowie is overrated.

Children and teenagers shouldn't access social media

You really want one?

Okay:

Race-Based Affirmative Action is harmful discrimination against Asians and I, as an Asian American, don't really like it, particularly in the context of it being used as a deciding factor in college admissions.

(Affirmative action based on other factors like income or disability is fine, but using race is kinda weird to me... too arbitrary)

Sending humans to Mars is evil.

It is impossible to have people anywhere without gazillions of microbes. Once humans land on Mars we've at the very least corrupted any evidence of life, and possibly destroyed an independent genesis of life.

Since all life on earth comes from a single progenitor, this is both an incalculable loss of potential knowledge, and also a greater extinction than all earth extinctions combined.

I propose a moratorium for say 200 years or so, or at least until we've explored more than a few square kilometers in detail.

Memes made the world a worse place.

Free will does not exist in the way we think of it, as this divine, magic thing that is above anything. Most of your success is more due to chance, and your environment, than your effort.

If you get taught wrong by your parents and/or peers, you are almost guaranteed to be locked into your bad behavior. So it was decided for you that you would play the role of a "bad person".

Pretty much related to Nietzsche's quote: "some men are born post-mortem".

There's also been a study showing monkeys unable to learn certain things, because it goes against the wirring of what they already learned, regardless of motivation, effort, reward.

It takes just as much faith to believe that the universe came into existence out of nothing as it does to believe a higher being created it.

Most scientists and atheists don't say the universe came from nothing, they say they don't know enough to form an opinion on where the universe came from

Probably because of something related to butthole development, lol, or cell growth in general. Perhaps it was unavoidable in the way God wanted to fashion us and the world. And it is not a perfect place but, if it weren't for our own disunion and ignorance, it would be so much better. Imagine if we only had to contend with accidental deaths, medical issues and natural disasters...

I'm not a believer myself, but theoretically, what if this was simply the best God could do? Not an all powerful being, but a flawed one that couldn't foresee the consequences their actions, or of the systems they created?

Disagree, depending on how you define higher being. If it's just an ineffable force, that's just a metaphor for random big bang bullshit. Sure maybe antimatter-matter reactions are the face of god, whatever.

But if you imply there is some sort of intelligence making choices? No that requires not just tremendous faith but magical thinking. It requires not just inventing a deity for which no evidence exists, but means which all experience tells us aren't real.

It's like if you believe Uri Gellar can bend spoons with his mind, you're not just believing in that but you're also believing in a force that would allow him to do so, and a brain section or something that enables tapping into that force, and that it's impossible to detect or manipulate that force in any other way.

Magical thinking is exponential, because the more questions you ask, the more magic is required to explain it. Or, vastly more likely, none of it is true.

The universe includes everything. As such it would include the higher being.

I agree, but the problem is if such a higher being did exist, I don't think it's someone anyone should worship.

I heard someone essentially try to argue "the universe was created by something, therefore people shouldn't be transgender". Even if I accept that an intelligent being must have created the universe, I don't see how we can conclude what that being wants us to do or whether we should do what it wants

Then it takes twice as much faith to believe a higher being existed before anything else...

It's a chicken/egg.

If you want to be the most scientific these days it's bubbles of reality getting created when two dimensional planes intersect or just come close to bumping up together. Which forms a bubble dimension which would have essentially random physics every time.

Which is pretty fucking far down the line to "nothing" but at the end of the day, what created the planar dimensions?

All adding a higher power does is add an extra step. Maybe it's there, maybe it's not.

It changes nothing. Because something created that first.

There's energy/matter and no matter what we come up with to rationalize that (even the Matrix) it doesn't explain it the whole way through, all of this is fundamentally impossible and we just have to accept that.

And also even if there's an afterlife, were unlikely to get all the answers, because it almost certainly be some sort of middle management higher being who is just as ignorant of what made it, till maybe if/when it dies in which case our "ever after" has an end date.

Like, everyone just has to eventually reach the point they stop caring and settle for a personal "good enough". Organized religion just gives everyone a set playbook which makes it easier to accept.

Who said anything about organized religion?

Then a higher power is an absolutely unnecessary step that provides zero benefit...

It's not a question of benefit or necessity. It's a question of what actually happened.

Then what created your higher power?

The question is the same, you latched onto an additional point and acted like it not applying invalidated everything else....

Logic ain't going to work, I'm sorry.

Exactly. You can believe either as the first step.The first step requires faith because the evidence isn't available.

RespectfulIy, I don't think it does, and I'm a monotheist. It takes no faith to disregard any notion of the Divine, it takes no "stepping out of the comfort zone" of the material, the seen, but it does take faith and courage to believe in the unseen. And I'm not saying the existence of God is incompatible with a reasonable understanding of the universe, just that it cannot be encapsulated by it. Through reason you can make a regression until the beginning of the universe, but after that it's all faith.

Faith is not restricted to believing in things unseen. Faith can be believing in something even when the empirical evidence and logic aren't strong enough to make it likely. This applies both to the existence of a higher being and the presumption that all the matter, energy, and order of the universe appeared from nothing.

Passive income is just labour appropriation and deserves the death sentence.

Consciousness is fundamental to reality. Science-based thinking (but not science itself) has put matter as the fundamental element but actually has never been able to prove it. To be able to prove that matter gives rise to consciousness, you'd have to step out of consciousness and point to matter. Which you cannot do. Not talking about individual consciousness where you can just point at someone's brain: that experience of pointing at someone's brain is happening inside consciousness, how else would you know about it.

Not to be confused with Solipsism, that's the thinking mind. I'm talking about Idealism, the raw state of pure experience before thought.

I have no issue with chatgpt. Or any other LLM based platform. I use it and many other llms in my daily life. They're solid applications that provide real world problem solving.

Humanity can't be fixed, will always be selfish, greedy, discriminating against other people who differ enough, since a bunch of these things are pretty much hard coded. You might not be, some people you know might not be - but statistically, the majority of humanity will happily watch others get oppressed (or worse) for various reasons. There will always be people who manipulate others for power/wealth, disregarding law, morals or the environment, and there will always be a fuckton of gullible/dumb/mean people who happily buy the propaganda for reasons above.

Therefore, no matter what kind of society you try to form, with enough time we will get back to where we are now, and humanity will never be able to break out of this downward spiral, due to its inherent fault.

...which leads to my main controversial opinion, based on the above: the only cure to the mass extinction and the worsening climate happening today is the eradication of the human species. Yes, it would be such a shame saying goodbye to all the great things we have achieved, dad jokes, poetry, the Backstreet Boys; all this means nothing if everything dies on a scorching/freezing planet. At least if we take out humanity, other forms of life could survive, and life as we know it isn't really found on every other planet.

Obviously there will be nothing wiping the human race off of the face of the Earth, and if it somehow ever disappears, it will be by its own doing - but chances are that will also take all other forms of life with it.

Looking at all the awful things humans have been doing to each other, all the pollution, all the ignorance, all the destruction, I wouldn't hesitate a bit if there was a red button in front of me that could magically make them disappear (including me, of course). In the blink of an eye. I would slam down on it as fast as I can.

That religion is for gullible people.

Rust is for little baby devs who can't handle a little uncertainty and unsafety.
(signed, a JS dev)

Obsessive monogamy is usually super fucking toxic, and "cheating" is way less of a betrayal than a dozen other things people put up with in relationships.

People will literally throw away years or even decades of stability and companionship over a single moment of weakness, like some weird sexual martyrdom, but they'll turn themselves in circles to forgive actual ongoing abuse.

And to be clear I have never cheated on anyone, though I have been the third person. This is just a general observation from my many years in the game.

I both think people have a right to dignity, which by extension means they should have a say of how to live their lives. I also think that the general population shouldn't vote. Against Democracy is a really good read if you haven't read it.

For the record, I literally will drive people to the polls (since our current system creates better outcomes if more people vote) but I do really wish that most of them wouldn't XD.

Making out and fucking are basically the same and I don't get why one is tolerated in public and the other is not.

Cruelty and violence against vulnerable individuals like farm animals is morally indefensible.

We are breeding idiots.

A lot to unpack here, but the primary reason is that "everyone" survives, is led into adulthood, and encouraged to start a family. From an evolutionary standpoint, we don't have any sort of filter who gets to live and breed, and no "survival of the fittest". This is not only about childbirths, but also about who breeds (and raises) children.

Eugenics is not bad in of itself, but people consider it bad because they fear it will be forced upon them by racist/ableist powers. (Remember, a mother (and father) who chooses to abort if there is something bad unveiled through tests are also doing eugenics.)

Not saying we haven't had this "problem" in the past, nor that we have to do something about it. It's more a statement that we have a lot of idiots around...

It's pronounced "gif"

Hot take? Maybe. Conspiracy theory? Probably a better description for what i am about to say.

I truly believe that the reason the "No Child Left Behind Act" was made/passed, at least in part, was to try and make kids "blind", so to speak, as to the wrong/evil that the government is doing.

Or at the very least, that's why book bans are a thing.

You-know-who needs to go you-know-where

Children are a distinct category from adolescents (and shouldn't be lumped together), and both categories should have more autonomy over their own lives, bodies, and education. That includes being able to not consent to child genital mutilation (whether biologically male or intersex, female is already illegal), being able to consent to immunisations against the wishes of their parents/guardians - and likewise for puberty blockers/HRT later on, if they're trans - and having autonomy over their schoolday, which school they go to, and what their schedule looks like.

Our ancestors might not be "from" Africa.

There's huge gaps in the historical record because of that whole ice age cycle thing.

Sapians may have evolved somewhere else, but either slowly migrated to Africa as safe haven or just died out everywhere else as glaciers bulldozed all traces of evidence.

It doesn't really change anything, we'd still all be descendants of the same people. I just don't think we know enough to for sure say the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence.

It's not that long ago we thought all our ancestors lived in caves, just because evidence was most likely to be preserved then

It actually makes the most sense for sapians to have evolved in Africa due to being solidly on the equator and having the right climate for transitioning from arboreal apes to long distance runners. Conditions there were perfect for our physiology.

I note your acknowledgement that absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, but I think the science has gone further than this to rebut this opinion or theory or hypothesis.

Firstly, there's not a linear progression from some distant precursor like monkeys through to homo sapiens. Rather we seem to have coalesced from a number of other species, and this record is present in the fossil record in Africa.

Secondly, there are plenty of fossils from elsewhere on the planet of animals from other genus, so while glaciers might have destroyed some evidence, not all of it has been destroyed.

I don't know enough about this to give you a thorough rebuttal, suffice to say people who do conclude that the out of Africa theory is the most credible given the available evidence. One can choose to believe something else, but ofc that's contrary to the evidence.

I'm fully aware that orangutans aren't our closest relatives, and that our of Asia is pretty well debunked... But I swear to God, every time I see one of them fuckers I think "hello, grandfather! Teach me the ways of the forest!" Lol. I feel a kinship to them that I just don't with other great apes (except maybe bonobos), and it makes me wish they were our closest relatives. ... And also that I had some kind of scifi helmet I could give them to make them smarter and give them language so they could tell us to fuck off and leave their habitats alone

I mean, it would be much less controversial to say "I believe that there are many unknown about the geographical origins of humans" and "our ancestors were not from Africa" (not exactly what you said, but exaggerated for clarity).

One sounds like a generic question about prehistoric times, the other sounds like a racially charged propaganda piece.

Sometimes things are about wording.

the other sounds like a racially charged propaganda piece.

Exactly what I'm talking about.

Bring it up and people will literally change what you say and label it racist.

That's why it's controversial, it gets the people going...

Even with all the disclaimers input in there with it, I 100% knew someone would say it was racist for zero logical reason, even without me saying that's the reason it's controversial.

It changes absolutely nothing about how we all evolved from an (actually insanely small) population that lived in Africa very recently on an evolutionary timescale. If anything it debunks racist beliefs that there's large divides between who left and stayed.

But well intentioned people get mad and call me a racist, every single time.

I did not call you racist, I was on the contrary pointing out that the only thing that can make it controversial is the wording.

My point was, this is not a controversial take, but phrased badly it can sound like one, which is probably the reason people would end up calling you racist. Not because what you say (and especially what you mean) is racist, but because it can sound like a red flag.

And I totally agree with the fact that the origin changes nothing to humans, or to racism, because nothing will ever prove racism to be right scientifically. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just commenting on the "controversial" aspect.

Or homophobic, or transphobic, or other flavor of the month phobic.

If you disagree with their stated world view, you are being irrational, hateful, and must be censored. Which is ironic considering that what they demand is of the world to accept their version of reality at face value.

Nah man, I just meant this one specific point, which is why I put it in this thread...

Shane Gillis said it best (paraphrased):

Racism is a lot like being hungry, most people aren't always hungry. Some people are, but everyone gets hungry under the right conditions.

But it's all the "isms", they're all just different ways to describe "in/out group bias" which older than humans, primates, and considering birds even mammals.

It's a fundamental part of human life.

The only problem is people weren't getting socialized first due to distance and then due to instuitional laws. And as people age they fall back on earlier "in/out group biases" of what they were exposed to as young.

Everyone can be guilty of "doing an ism" and most of the time not even realize it, really mean it, or even control it. The brain just stressed and falls back on that shit.

We fix it by understanding it and working towards the current new generation getting properly socialized and motivated enough to keep doing it

That's why conservatives fight so hard against "indoctrination" seeing a demographic exists when young is all it takes to stop them from becoming "them" later. They're just another member of the tribe to our monkey brains, they're always be "us".

Do you think people will, by default, just hate on other people at some point because they look drastically different from them/their group? That's a very Western take, I think, and a form of coping. You can find people bizarre-looking, shockingly so even (ever seen those videos of rural Chinese people meeting African people? They touch them just to check if it's not dirt, lol), but hatred because of it is certainly not natural. Well, it isn't in the rest of the world from what I've seen, I'd like to believe it isn't natural to the Western man either.

Yeah, because no one racist ever tried to mix the concept of ancestry and geographical origin to imply the existence of races.

im fine with trans people and non discrimination but my whole life sex and gender terms were one and the same for me and most folks in everyday language. The idea of identifying pronouns for myself seems laughable to me. Im a big believer in simple solutions. Got some temp work at a place with genderless bathrooms that had the full floor to ceiling doors. Its a bit wierd to wash my hands with girls but its not like im naked. There is all sorts of language things going out of fashion (online) and folks are like just learn it but look despite decades of school my spelling and grammar are atrocious because habits don't change easily and no one is even forcing me to study or anything now. On top of it, like it or not for the internet folks, it has no bearing in the outside world which is still basically jugging along at its own pace. It will over time for sure but it won't happen as quickly as early adopters would like. Also I pretty much don't like any type of censorship of fictinoal things. Reality and fiction are two different things to me. Although modern ability to fake things is making identifying something as real as tough. I don't want claims of it being high end fakes as letting folks get away with crimes.

Of course we continue to learn and grow but we do that in many ways. I also have a complaint that the us has a strange kinda pull you up by the bootstratps where everyone should be able to sorta figure out everything. kinda have to be a doctor, lawyers, accountant, mechanic, general contrator, etc. and does not seem to recognize that there is a limit to cognitive load. Im not really interested in putting a whole lot of effort in here and over time I will passively take things in over time but yeah im not looking to read articles on it. Things will change but its not going to be a massive shift all of a sudden. Honestly that is something I see a lot of today (online) and expectation of massive revolution level change and if it does not happen a complete unappreciation and actually abandonment of incremental change which I think is kinda kill us in the present.

Im fine with trans people and non discrimination but my whole life sex and gender terms were one and the same for me and most folks in everyday language. The idea of identifying pronouns for myself seems laughable to me.

I think telling someone your pronouns is fine, and if you tell me I will make an attempt to use them (I will remember exactly as well as I will remember your name, which is to say at least till the moment I meet the next person). I have NEVER met anyone who had a problem with this system, and I run in circles that have a very much above-average amount of gender stuff going on.

And if you DO get upset because I didn't proactively ask for your pronouns, instead of just telling me, then we're really not going to be talking much anyway.

Which is pretty much how I feel. Its fine if someone gives pronouns and I will do my best with it but it was not something historically I had to sorta tag people with so its a significant mental load comparatively. Its like all of a sudden having to remember everyones favorite cake or ice cream as a matter of course. That being said it being in a signature line of the email makes that pretty arbitrary but that being said its kinda annoying to have to find emails from people you talk to to see what the thing is for them. Don't get me started on people who don't use or ditch their signature in communications.

People have the right to define themselves however they want. Likewise, people have the right not to share those determinations.

If others have the right to see themselves however they want, I have the right to see themselves however I want too. Reciprocity works like that.

Pretty much yeah. I agree with another reply that you try your best to accomodate folks but I also have habits.

Thank you. I thought I was alone. Like, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but you're kind of demanding a lot of a broken drunk brain that doesn't give a shit, I've got problems of my own...

  1. Whaddaya mean by "fictional" in this context?

  2. Your comment basically says that society progresses at its own steady pace, and people demanding more rights and societal progress are impatient and wasting their time. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how society evolves. It's not an automatism, it is the direct result of people raising their voices and demanding rights. There is no progress without these efforts. So yes, their demands are currently unachievable - by definition. It's not a bug, it's not a mistake, it's a necessity.

Im not sure if you think my thing was one thing. The first part was about expectations around changing societal norms and folks catching up with language and stuff but the last several lines where about censorship. So when it comes to fiction I don't like anything being censored. Like there is this anime from way back. This guy finds a gun and he goes on a rape rampage and I think in the end kills himself but its been a long time. It was graphic and disturbing to say the least. It is something that there are certainly people if they were aware of it would want it banned. I do actually think it was trying to say something about guns though as well as maybe human demons and such

Okay I see. I think I misread that part about censorship in your first comment. An interesting discussion for sure, because on one hand, art lets us explore things "safely" that we can't do in real life, but on the other hand, being fictional doesn't mean it doesn't have a real effect on people.

My second point was very important to what your initial comment said about progress in society, and you didn't respond to that at all so I'm not sure if you've read it?

Yeah I did not respond to all your points. I did the first because it seems like you think all of what I was saying was in related to the same thing and it was not and you still seem to think. I did not move on to your second point as the first misunderstanding is rather severe. I really don't want to keep expanding as I had two things to say and you had two points about it so im trying to get the one straightened out. So let me know if we have cleared up that my paragraph is not all about changing societal norms and I can reply to your second and longer response if you like. So Im horrible at making proper paragraphs and such but this is how it should have looked:

im fine with trans people and non discrimination but my whole life sex and gender terms were one and the same for me and most folks in everyday language. The idea of identifying pronouns for myself seems laughable to me. Im a big believer in simple solutions. Got some temp work at a place with genderless bathrooms that had the full floor to ceiling doors. Its a bit wierd to wash my hands with girls but its not like im naked. There is all sorts of language things going out of fashion (online) and folks are like just learn it but look despite decades of school my spelling and grammar are atrocious because habits don’t change easily and no one is even forcing me to study or anything now. On top of it, like it or not for the internet folks, it has no bearing in the outside world which is still basically jugging along at its own pace. It will over time for sure but it won’t happen as quickly as early adopters would like.

Also I pretty much don’t like any type of censorship of fictinal things (this is the start of a second and independent response to the post. it could have been two responses but I was having a zoom zoom train of thought thing. this paragprah is not related to the previous. real quick this second paragraph is about censorship in general. so like while I might like the subject matter of fictional literature I don't like it being banned). Reality and fiction are two different things to me. Although modern ability to fake things is making identifying something as real as tough. I don’t want claims of it being high end fakes as letting folks get away with crimes.

The Beatles were nothing special.

The placement of pineapple on pizza is subjective

Humans don't deserve pets.

I am very, very progressive. Here are my hot takes:

Transgender participation in sports can lead to unfair advantages. I hate that I believe this, as I do not want anybody to feel ostracized or as if they are discriminated against. But I think it’s true nonetheless :(

Reading smut does not count as reading. Listening to audiobooks does not count as reading.

The US was never the land of the free.

Music needs to broadly adopt alternative musical scales.

State-sanctioned suicide is essential to a developed nation.

Pinball is grossly under-appreciated, and its progression is a great example of doing new things with old ideas.

Any nation that wants nukes should be allowed to develop them.

Luigi’s Mangione’s eyebrows are off-putting.

Eating breakfast is stupid if you have a job that isn’t physical.

I’m sure there are more. FIGHT ME!

to me, the Super Nintendo was the worst Nintendo console. so much of the library is games that either had better NES prequels or N64 sequels if not both. despite having a buttload more colors than the Mega Drive, so many of the games ended up looking bland and lifeless, with the notable exception of Super Mario World which looks like a Fisher Price product. the sound chip sounds like someone is sitting on it, and that washed out sound is admittedly nice for RPGs but it ruins everything else

and this isn't me being a bitter SEGA fan! i think the NES and the GameCube were both signifigantly better than their SEGA contemporaries. just considering Nintendo consoles, i rank the Super well below the Wii U and Virtual Boy- those at least offered unique experiences

Cars 2 is the best of the series.

William Shakespeare was a pseudonym adopted by Sir Francis Bacon whom was also Queen Elizabeth 1st’s son.

I think all land should be returned to my county's indigenous people. I'm descended from the colonizers.

No one should feel obligated to be an organ donor. And telling someone they must because they "aren't using their body anymore" is fucked up. If a person has to be coerced, guilted or bullied into giving the "gift of life" they aren't doing so freely. If they have to be manipulated into it then it's not a gift. It's theft. Nevermind the fact that corporations make big bank off the organ and tissue trade by piecemealing out donors and sellings the parts, but no one talks about THAT because lives are being saved.

(I'm not against organ donation. I just don't like that we use manipulation tactics to procure body parts and that there isn't transparency about who is profiting).

COVID-19 was a lab leak.

Now let me be clear I think Fauci is a god damned saint and national hero for putting up with the shit he did. We don't deserve someone like him.

The Maginot Line wasn't a waste. It did exactly what it was designed to do: Make the Germans go around to the west. The failure was political, in that the 2nd part of this defense was that France and Belgium would coordinate to set up a proper line in Belgium, but this never happened when Germany invaded.

And Chamberlain had no choice but to accept Hitlers claims on Sudetenland (part of then Czechoslovakia). Any other treaty would've required an enforcement mechanism, and Britain was in no shape or form ready for even a limited war at that time.

Communal anarchy is as valid a political orientation as any other

if you stopped eating animal products, you'd actually like it.

Home ownership is not ideal for everyone.

Obviously, all humans deserve to have a home. Not all of us want to own a house. I would rather have the flexibility to move around, and much prefer to leave repairs and maintenance in the hands of the person I'm renting from.

I get that it's not fair for rent money to passively make someone else wealthy, while they get to have the equity of a house. I'm not suggesting we keep that system. Housing (at least a portion of it) should be available as a public good.

  • Supporting the death penalty.

  • Rape is worse than murder; murder can be justified in some cases, e.g self defense, but rape never can. Therefore on average, rape is more evil than murder (it's a question of 100% versus like 98.5% on the evil scale)

I think the first one is more contentious - yes it's mainstream but it genuinely gets people riled up. The second one sounds shocking but is mainly just hard to articulate.

Voting requires citizenship. But citizenship itself should require more than just existing.

If we look back to Greek and Roman democracy, it was true that every citizen got a vote. But the people who were citizens was much more stringent.

The basic idea of the ars liberalis or Liberal Arts translates literally as "The work of freedom". Exercising your right to partake in a democracy required that a person be knowledgable about history, civics, rhetoric, politics, philosophy. Without that knowledge, you were not allowed a vote in how things are run.

Essentially, you had to know what you were voting on.

Unfortunately, that meant that in essence only the rich landowners could be citizens because they were the only ones with the time and money to get educated while the underclasses were too busy working to suvive.

But in the modern age, where public schooling is a thing, we should be able to figure out a way to make such a thing work. Nowadays, the only thing keeping people ignorant is choice. And if you make the choice to be ignorant, you should forfeit your right to have a say in the governing of your nation.

I've got a few that I can't really separate:

Dental hygienists are greedy charlatans who convince us we need an expensive hygiene appointment every six months when we really don't. That used to be true before the invention of the electric toothbrush but not now. I stopped going 7 years ago and I make sure I brush properly daily for two minutes with my electric toothbrush. I occasionally use inter-dental brushes for a deeper clean and my teeth are perfect. No soreness, gum bleeding and certainly no cavities. It's lies I tell ya.

AI is the most incredible development in human evolution since the invention of the wheel. I think it is the beginning of our next evolutionary step. It may even save us from destroying ourselves. It has brought me personally incredible results that have enriched my life in countless ways. I can't wait to see where it takes us. People who are angry about it are dumb (you did say "controversial opinion" lol).

Money is basically the ring from Lord of the rings. You can't have it without it changing you. I've had the dubious pleasure of knowing a great many millionaires and they're all miserable bastards pretending that they're not. Their families hate them, most of them are alcoholics and drug addicts. They hate themselves even more and their money doesn't mean anything to them so they use it to impress others or hurt them, just so they can feel something. It's all a disgustingly wasteful, tragic act.

You can't support Ukraine and other victims of military aggression, without having a strong arms industry yourself.

Most controversial opinion I'm willing to share:

I think we should replace incarceration for certain crimes with corporal punishment, such as canning. Ideally we would build the agony booth from the mirror universe of Star Trek.

Incarceration is overly harmful to the future of the offender. Incarceration is expensive for society. Authorities hesitate charging people with crimes for these reasons. Corporal punishment solves this.

As long as there is no long term damage, I believe the physical pain is more human than the lasting harm going to prison can cause.

IDK how controversial this one is, but I'd say Batman Beyond is a near perfect "I am the new Batman" type sequel series. Rather than having a series where it's all future versions of the villains facing off against future Batman, they either made new villains or reinvented one you never really saw anywhere besides a few old comics.

From what I've seen/heard of the non tie-in comics, they aren't as good, IMO, for the introduction of characters such as a future Catwoman and a few minor changes to some original characters, like turning that one Joker gang member into some sort of hybrid Joker and Two Face.

Very similar reasons as to why I think Loonatics s1 is vastly superior to season 2. Hand me original villains for a series over rehashed versions of old villains.

Watching porn on Pornhub or any other large mainstream porn site (all owned by essentially a monopoly) is being complicit in child abuse and rape. They made money knowingly hosting CSAM and should not be allowed to be in business. Even the stuff that involves people who are of age is often trafficked Eastern European women.

Rice and sauerkraut go well together

Unless you extensively have knowledge and experience with another country's politics, you shouldn't comment on anything besides humans rights violations or similar. You're likely to make a grossly ill informed assessment or opinion that you're regret. As well stereotyping is abound with such situations.

I have a bunch. I think the biggest one is that some people are naturally dumber than other people and can't be fixed by education. I don't think this broadly applies to any specific ethnic group or anything, but I do think that there is likely a genetic component to intelligence. I also don't think that we should prevent these people from breeding or treat them as inferior, but I also think that sending these people to college is a waste of time and expecting them to do well on college either waters down the college education experience or puts unfair expectations on them. I worry a lot about how these people will fare in an increasingly automated world and the answer is not good at all.

There's no ethical way to kill someone who's done nothing to you and doesn't want to die.

Heterosexuality is not natural.

We should riot and Kll all billionaires

I have two!

  1. willful procreation is morally bad

  2. if you aren't vegan, you can't be anarchist

Everyone who can should live vegan. If you don't live vegan and call yourselve an animal-lover, you're a hypocrite.

7-11 was a Part Time JOB!

I don't think Bin Laden was killed. The fast disposal of his "body" was suspect and his family was too wealthy.

Also, people over 75 should not vote or hold public office.

Armor-piercing ammunition should never be banned.

According to my employer that workers rights are important.

I don't think Epstein was a spy for any government. What kind of idiotic spy leaves thousands of emails as written proofs of crimes? I get it that he'd use gmail to seem inconspicuous, but you can easily delete your own emails. You rarely hear of spies, because they're very good at covering their tracks.

I think he was just a degenerate rich guy hanging out with other degenerate rich guys.

UK Rock bands and singers are galaxy away from US Rock bands and singers.

People are animals, apes to be specific, we act on instinct and adhere to the animal nature of our species. There is nothing grand or divine about us. There is nothing special to us, other than our ability to survive in different climates and environments, and there is nothing that separates us from the animals. We are the equivalent to over abundant irresponsible beavers with thumbs. The only reason we, as a species, think otherwise is purely delusion and wishful thinking.

Also, mothman did 9/11.

Depends on your definition of "controversial", for which I have two.

  • In the sense of controversial meaning "a mainstream opinion that a large portion of the population finds morally reprehensible": The death penalty.

It's pretty much my singular strongly held conservative viewpoint, and as such one I've been open to frequently challenging throughout the years. I've heard out all the arguments against it: it costs the taxpayer too much money, sometimes people sentenced to death were actually innocent, the state shouldn't be granted that amount of power to begin with, etc etc...

But to me, it's always come down to an argument of morality. "Is it right to take another life, even if that life may endanger or harm others?" And this is usually where I would insert a thoughtful and nuanced philosophical paragraph or two to support my viewpoint...

But ever since all this Epstein shit has gone on to continuously spew out each day I've pretty much just been taking a well-deserved victory lap lol (Btw, I'm out of the loop... did Jizzstain ever end up successfully petitioning for her release after a few months of hugging puppies in max security?)


  • In the sense of controversial meaning "what have you been smoking and can I have some": A very, very niche conspiracy theory about the nature of UFOs.

  • Warning to alien enthusiasts: This is the Santa's-not-real equivalent of ruining your childhood (so if you love the idea of little green men, just keep your mystery)

    So a long time ago, I read a really obscure publication discussing the nuances behind famous "alien sightings", that halfway through makes the bombshell reveal that a majority of the so-called UFOs were mostly Russian spy technology, which coincides with a lot of certain historical events, ie. things like Roswell at the start of the Cold War, as well as "what they're hiding" in Area 51... etc. Essentially, the whole "little green men" / "the grays" mysticism can be chocked up to a cover-up government conspiracy. "Oh no, you can't go in there! There's uh... secret aliens!! And UFOs!! Top Secret."

    The only time in my personal life I can ever recall having experienced a genuine UFO sighting (where I saw round lights rotating in a circle above cloud cover right over our building in broad daylight) was once as a kid while visiting my relatives... in Donetsk. So yeah, it kind of checks out. And going off of US history in general, I wouldn't put it past them that it's far more likely that most UFO "abductees" with PTSD were actually abducted and brainwashed by the government, especially since they've done that sort of thing before...

    It's kind of a shitty reveal. But hey, don't let me ruin aliens for you, as even though little green men may be a complete fabrication (and seems way more obvious once you stop and think about how simplistic their design is lol...), that doesn't necessarily equate to disproving all possibility of alien life. Just like with religion, you can't really prove a negative. Fermi's Paradox and all that.

    So there's technically no real evidence that extraterrestrial life couldn't exist... Even if there's a 99% chance that any strange things you've personally encountered wasn't actually aliens, lol

I think you should be able to hit any able bodied person once, without being charged with a crime.

You can’t just beat someone to hell. You’re still on the hook for any civil damages for serious injuries that occur. But if we just let anybody hit anybody else just that one time, I believe society would be a kinder place.

Johnny Kitagawa's child sexual abuse was confirmed in a trial over gossip magazine reports.

Johnny & Associates, which continued to have him involved with minors for over 15 years, engaged in organized child sexual exploitation and should be defined as a mafia.

Therefore, all organizations that did business with the company, including ISPs, universities, UMG, and Nintendo, should be defined as affiliated with the mafia.

That intervention in wars on other continents is bad.
Most people don't find this controversial, until I mention that this applies to the Ukraine war, too,

Beer at the weekends makes life more fun and booze generally makes life better for lots of people.

Children should be treated as human beings and deserve autonomy.

"I don't like how it looks", "it scares me" or "it's annoying" aren't a good enough reasons to kill an animal. No, not even that one.

Israelis and Palestinians have a right to a peaceful home. Outsiders have no right to dictate their policy (i.e. "death to <political entity>).

A: America and many other nations will soon need to create economic systems from the ground up. Capitalism and the rules we have to govern it, are just inertia with bandaids being used to keep it from hurling itself over a cliff. Socialism, Autoism (AI), and other ism's we don't know, will start outright replacing what we knew. The process will be chaotic and painful.

B: The death penalty and quicker judgments should be a thing, at least for America. The wheels of justice are too slow - and explicit terrorists like ICE are allowed to roam freely. They should be rounded up and put to the rope. Should the good guys win a 2nd American Civil War, all members of ICE and MAGA should sway in the wind, so that their ideas and character are not passed down to future generations of humanity. The mistaken mercy granted to the Confederates and Nazis, should not be given to the Dogey.

C: Peter Monyleux's best games are Magic Carpet 1 & 2.

D: AI is good, but we will need it to be publicly owned by society, freely available, and open-sourced to ensure that it remains that way. The social problems with AI largely stem from the wealthy exerting their influence over the poor, as they do in all things.

E: The hardware drought for RAM and GPUs will pass, and we will have much better hardware choices for our local gaming and AI.

Lunch should be at 1300

You want the truth? YOU WANT THE TRUTH?

You can't handle my ban record.

Nice try, sitting this one out.

Here's one, threads like this are a cynical attempt to generate discussion on quiet days

Because with time, this light is also putting an end to not just itself but every other form of life around it.

Whether the positives outweigh the negatives doesn't really matter when there's nobody left around. Once we get to the point where the climate disaster is bad enough and irreversible (it might have happened already), it doesn't even matter if humanity suddenly falls back into the middle ages and gets primitive enough to not do any harm anymore: certain processes won't just suddenly stop.

Intelligence is a pathogen. Wherever it develops in the universe, it rapidly spreads and consumes everything, wiping out most other life forms and eventually itself. It has probably developed over and over again over time all over the universe including our own galaxy. It may be relatively rare, but there would still be millions of instances. The fact that we have found no evidence of intelligent life elsewhere is not because it doesn’t exist or is too far away, but because we have missed the band of detectable transmissions from these societies that existed closer to us. There will be others, but we may be gone by then. We should definitely not be working to spread to other worlds. We should perish here from our own behaviors as we are meant to.

Han Solo shot first.

Deleted. Somebody else already posted this one.

Bloodmouths and cheese breathers should be factory farmed

The only people who actually have a claim to the argument of “abortion is murder” are biologists.

My position is that I don't care if abortion is murder.

I argue that killing a sentient being is acceptable if it's done to maintain bodily autonomy. I would further argue that everyone who opposes mandatory organ harvesting argees with the position that life is ranked lower on the scale of morality than bodily autonomy.

It's just that most people are scared to say that out loud.

Everybody likes ranch, and if you say you don't, you're lying to try and seem fancy.

All the suppressed and secreted emancipatory technologies should be released, giving everybody interstellar spaceships of their own, in as little time as an afternoon.

Big bang for the hole universe is bs. It's just our galaxy doing breath in (black hole building up) and breath out (black hole collapse).

On Lemmy? Probably "God exists, and to God we will return on the Day of Judgement". Or something like "there are marked, easily observable personality differences between the sexes on average" (think Big Five traits, like agreeableness and neuroticism, for example).

Outside of Lemmy? Probably my dismissal of the hadiths (narrations regarding/involving prophet Muhammad), or at least my acknowledgement that (for Muslims) the Qur'an should be taken as an "axiomatic" message since it's the word of God and everything else is up for debate (and, evidently, if the hadith contradicts the Qur'an, you should disregard it). Idk, seems pretty obvious to me but the ummah is quite sectarian, ritualistic and afraid to make their own judgements (when God, as seen in the Qur'an, exhorts people to think!).

There is nothing good about any version of the Abrahamic god. Everything about him is vain and cruel and unworthy of love or devotion. People get so caught up in the idea of not dying that they don't even realize eternal life is hell, not any kind of reward. If God existed I would spit in his face and take comfort in being smote from existence.

Most likely I represent the other end of the spectrum because I doubt many see it quite the way I do. Anyway, it's all good. What happens will happen regardless of what any of us believe. It doesn't need me to speak it aloud to be true.

You've been given the opportunity to live, free of charge too cause what can you do to repay the Creator... and yet you're still so ungrateful. Why are you so upset at God? Is your life so terrible? You should be consistent at the very least and just rope, then, right? Let's hope you're young and immature and not old, cause then you'd be double ungrateful and silly.

An invitation to kill myself. That is, if nothing else, in perfect keeping with the morality that vexes me about Abrahamic theology.

Firstly, I don't hate God. I'd have to believe in one to hate him and, without hesitation or qualification, I do not. I do take issue with the way these faiths weaponize fear in self-serving ways — by first amplifying our natural anxiety of death and then selling comfort.

No, I have no intention of killing myself and losing this precious, but finite commodity of time. I have maybe 80 years in which to experience as much of life as I am able, and when it is spent, I will still be racing against that clock to do more.

That is the key. We end. Faith often — specifically including Abrahamic faiths — tries to sell people on the idea that we don't have to. It's wrong to convince them to chase eternity when what they really need is to find peace with the necessity of ending.

Mortality is what gives life scope and meaning. It is the race against oblivion from which all human accomplishment must derive. It represents the passing of outdated views and ushering in a generation free from the biases that no longer serve them.

My children are my eternal existence. The ripples of my passing on the lives of those around me — creating further ripples which reach further into the future — are my eternal existence. But my consciousness, my soul if that's what you want to call it, it will end, and that makes my time here precious.

In 10,000 years all I have accomplished, all I have wanted, all I have loved, all I have dreaded — all of it would be as nothing. And then I have more tens of thousands of years. Millions of years. Billions. Trillions. What meaning would this brief speck of time have against all eternity? I treasure my existence all the more for being so brief.

God has no carrot to tempt me with. I reject that eternal life is any sort of gift, in fact it would be a curse.

Now let me address gratitude. I have a pretty good life. And I am thankful for the people and good fortune that make it so. But if I didn't exist, I would know no deprivation or loss. An unasked gift carries no obligation, so I am not indebted for an existence I did not choose.

And so God, stripped of eternal reward and the obligation of birth, is a deity who tolerates evil that would be unimaginable were it not so commonplace. A being complicit in such evil is not worthy of love or worship, but would deserve only contempt — if he existed.

God doesn't have to "tempt you" with eternal life, that's just a bonus... your existence is enough of a gift (that you've enjoyed at least long enough to have children, else you would've done the intellectually honest thing if you're really speaking truthfully and ended it a long time ago), and enough proof of God as well. I think you had a really bad experience with a Western religion (yes, Trinitarian faiths are here, they're of Roman origin)/approaches to belief (understandably so, I've seen what American megachurches are like, and also the disconnect between belief and action) and think that has something to do with God. And the "problem of evil" seems to be doing your head in as well, as if a little difficulty (cause most evils are caused by people, the rest is illnesses, accidents and natural disasters) would take away from the gift that is life. Again, you can always just have nothing.

Outside of Lemmy? Probably my dismissal of the hadiths

Nah, that's a pretty popular opinion. The majority of the world dismisses those. Even the most popular holy books have about 75% of people disagreeing with them (and an even larger number disagreeing with any particular interpretation.)

drunk driving is a skill you can get good at.

This place isn't liberal enough for me to express them. And that is a problem in itself.

I don't think it's a waste of time for military contractors and for the American political elite (Trump in particular) who would rather stay in power/face no legal repercussions and avoid Bibi leaking some even more compromising stuff. More importantly, it's a waste of lives.

What did the people do? Allow it to freaking happen,

I feel like I have a lot less standing to comment on stuff like this as an American currently watching my country just stand around and let the fascists take over.

And as far as I can tell we're not the only country barely fighting back against authoritarianism either.

Agree it's pointless what we're doing, but I'm certainly not going to throw stones at people being unable or unwilling to risk life and limb for liberty.

Remember Eisenhower's warning?

Remember JFK?

The hour may be later than you think.

Best not fall for the pantomime. When they put the puppets away, it's still going on.

That's the opposite of controversial

Yeah, why wont they stop punching themselves in the face. Nothing to do with the bully holding their arms making them do it.

This entire thread just makes me mourn the quality of history education in this part of the world.

Which nation, through a proxy war with the USSR, armed and empowered the progenitor of the Taliban?

Nearly everyone here desperately needs a crash course in how this part of the world creates circumstances for conflict and instability elsewhere. If you look closely enough you'll see, from the colonial era to now, it was done with (often times malicious) intention.

The amazing thing about American foreign policy is that it thinks it can fix the problems it creates and it essentially never can.

Cis men aren't lonely enough

Toxic masculinity killed Dale Earnhardt

all human conditions are chemical imbalances of the brain. schizophrenia? imbalance. DID? imbalance. ASD? imbalance. gay? imbalance.

my point is, that we selectively treat certain imbalances because as a society we have chosen certain traits to be desirable or manageable.

if studied, I'm sure a drug could be made to "treat" homosexuality no different than ADHD. Same goes for heterosexuality.

fundamentally, we are computers that run chemical "programs" and react very specifically depending on which "interpreter" we have.

edit: post said controversial, not popular.