‘Worst nightmare’: anger and frustration as Gulf states bear brunt of war they did not start
3mon 4d ago by sh.itjust.works/u/HellsBelle in world from www.theguardian.com
An eerie quiet hangs over Ras Al Khaimah’s industrial port. Usually a thriving maritime hub of the United Arab Emirates, now ships stand docked and silent. Not far out along the hazy horizon, a backlog of hundreds of tankers have lined up in recent days, halted along a waterway flooded with danger.
Any vessel heading past Ras Al Khaimah out to the Arabian Sea must traverse the world’s most treacherous strip of water for shipping today: the strait of Hormuz. Just over 20 nautical miles from Ras Al Khaimah, two oil tankers heading for the strait were attacked by Iranian missiles this week, one catching fire.
It is one of the many consequences facing Gulf states as they are pulled deeper into a war that they did not start and had diplomatically tried to prevent.
For decades, Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar and Oman have allowed US military bases, infrastructure or access on their soil, and have been among the largest buyers of American weapons and technology. In return, the US has stood as the Gulf’s closest and most significant military partner and protector.
But now, Gulf states have growing concerns over the relationship, analysts say, after Donald Trump was seen to wilfully torpedo peaceful diplomatic negotiations in favour of starting a war in the Middle East.
The reason that every other US president has ruled out war with Iran is exactly because of this tactic. It takes a group of really ignorant, egotistical, and foolhardy leaders to melt through the layers of decision making that underlie such a course of action.
The more Trump screams on social media and Hegseth bully pulpits while whining about media coverage, the worse this war is going. Look for more avoidable Air Force and Navy incidents, more dead American soldiers, and a civilian bloodbath that will take decades to unravel the implications of.
Fuck the Americans involved in this war,nobody asked them to join the army and they're aware who and why they are fighting for
Joining the US military is just signing up to murder brown people at the direction of the oil industry and war profiteers. Been the way for at least half a century.
"I was a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism".
-Smedley Butler, 1935
That’s not very class conscious of you.
why don't the rich join the army
In a society where higher education is paywalled, I can't look down on people who use the military to get pass the paywall.
You would if they killed your daughter while she was at school
Fuck em. They can read, they know what this leadership is.
What if they signed up before the current regime came to power?
You think the US military was out there distributing flowers before Trump came along? They're all scum.
If you want to debate foreign policy, great. But “othering” and dehumanizing an entire group of people isn’t a serious argument. It’s the Russia/GOP playbook.
And the fact this is so heavily upvoted says more about the state of lemmy than it does about the people you’ve never met, yet seemingly hate so much.
If you want to debate foreign policy
The fuck you want me to debate? There's no room for debating the morality of US foreign policy (which is 99% evil), which should be clear to anyone not willfully ignorant. Therefore, there's only one non-scum course of action to take, and that is to get the hell out. Their ongoing cooperation with the US war machine makes them scum.
But “othering” and dehumanizing an entire group of people isn’t a serious argument.
I never dehumanized US soldiers; I simply called them scum, for the same reason most people would agree WWII Wehrmacht soldiers were scum.
the people you’ve never met, yet seemingly hate so much.
Do I need to have met Hitler to hate him? What about Netanyahu? Maybe Putin is actually a good person under all the death and destruction?
When Dick Cheney was making the world safe for Halliburton? Yeah, there's no comfort there.
This goes way before the "current" regime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Only possible valid defense.
I'll cut a tiny bit of slack to the 9/11 sign-ups, it was harder to fact-check the various lies coming from the feds.
Then again, these are the same trolls killing migrants for trying to pursue a better life.
Not only that but if it wasnt for the US military then Russia would control Ukraine and would be advancing into Europe.
Or China would have already invaded Taiwan.
Or North Korea would control South Korea.
The problem here isn’t the US military. It’s the leadership.
But the foreign bots brigading lemmy want the US military weaker so those nations can advance their geopolitical goals.
What exactly did the US military do to prevent Russia from progressing their invasion in Ukraine? If anything, this administration has done anything possible to allow Russia to progress, which despite their effort, they don't seem to be able to on a larger scale.
Supply weapons, labor and funding and got European nations to do the same. This was before Trump became president.
You're aware that this was not the military, but the USA as a country? The military does not get to decide how to spend money, or where to deliver weapons.
The existence of the US military is a prerequisite for the development and manufacturing of those weapons. The US military trained Ukrainians on weapons use and tactics and shared intel. Some even became contractors to join the fight.
Other than that it sounds like you agree with me that this is a leadership problem.
It is 100% a leadership problem, I am just not agreeing on the "US military helped Ukraine fight off Russia" part, because the US military was not involved in any of this conflict, beside some training they probably provided for the tanks the US delivered.
To avoid the accusation of “joining the war” soldiers have become legal citizens of Ukraine to help fight. Not only US soldiers but soldiers from other European nations as well.
The same thing has been done in Russia using Chinese, North Korean and Brazilian citizens just to name a few.
But the US military has definitely been sharing intel with Ukraine. Ukraine doesn’t have the ability to spot their targets deep inside of Russia alone.
Not only that but if it wasnt for the US military then Russia would control Ukraine and would be advancing into Europe.
Ah yes, tell us more about the USA soldiers fighting in Ukraine. Oh wait, there are none. Not a soldier, not a plane, not a ship. Well, not anything manned by any 'murican, but lots of USA arms sold to them, as well as lots of European arms.
Or China would have already invaded Taiwan.
The current war against Iran can give China a golden opportunity to invade, since USA can get bogged down significantly in the Middle East again. Go USA!
Not to mention that Taiwan is strategically important to a lot of other countries due to its "silicon shield", being the single largest manufacturer of processors in the world. For a number of years now, an invasion could trigger an actual global conflict, even if, for all intents and purposes, such invasion came as another step in a "civil war".
Or North Korea would control South Korea.
Nah, they may have a larger standing army and can definitely destroy Seoul within minutes due to the capital being less than 40km away from the DMZ, but they know that, without big help on their side, they can't actually "win". I doubt China would help them, since South Korea is an important market for them.
The problem here isn’t the US military. It’s the leadership.
Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Nicaragua, Colombia, Philippines, Iran and other countries would like a word with the "leadership".
But the foreign bots brigading lemmy want the US military weaker so those nations can advance their geopolitical goals.
Oh no, why would people dislike the evil empire that has done a lot of evil and see it crumble? Clearly it must be bots working for the other countries!
That’s a leadership problem just like I said.
Every country has a military.
I heard a commentator describe it as "victory disease".
Trump is in control of the largest and most sophisticated military in the world. He had a couple of one and done victories, its easy to see how he might start to feel over confident.
It was almost inevitable they would eventually pick a fight they couldn't win.
That said, going in with absolutely no plan-b was really, really stupid.
They didn't even have a plan A!
They had a plan A: put the fear of god (aka USA) in Iran. This technique doesn't work on most teenagers (as well as most countries)
They went straight for plan T
What victories have they had????
Venezuela and the last strike on Iran.
Venezuela wasn’t a victory. And what strike in Iran is a victory? They killed 160+ children.
The stealth bomber hitting the nuclear lab under a mountain through the vent tunnels.
Did it? Obliterated their nuclear facilities I heard. But I also heard from the leaked DIA assessment that "the strikes damaged above-ground structures and sealed the entrances to two targets, but did not destroy the associated underground facilities and the centrifuges".
Every time they bomb Iran they make the claim that they obliterated it. This current war was started with the same excuse as their objective, so the previous obliteration of their nuclear program must not have been very throughout.
You mean the claimed destruction, just like all the others times?
Im sure they destroyed something, a nuclear base or a few meters of sand i cannot say
It doesn't matter whether you think Venezuela was a victory. Trump certainly does.
He thinks everything he does is a victory. The comment you made doesn’t matter at all, he literally thinks that he can’t make mistakes.
Nah, im pretty fucking certain he thinks hes made an epic mistake.
The most ironic thing is if they had bothered to set up a practical plan and stated war goal, the US could have invaded and captured Iran in a matter of weeks.
It just that the largest and most sophisticated military in the world is completely useless if you don't spin up and use its full potential, which you can't really do without troops on the ground and congressional approval (not the literal declare war sense, just public support).
Of course they can't actually justify a proper invasion (or a draft) without causing insane fallout in the US, so they used everything except ground troops which will accomplish nothing and get the US stuck in a forever war like Vietnam.
Even though China is facing eventual oil supply issues, they're probably looking at this thing like prime cinema as the US expends its military global dominance on Iran, which will solve their Taiwan plans for them.
Germany in 1939: Poland has capitulated in a month. The Reich grows larger.
Germany in 1940: France has capitulated in a month. Our invincible troops march from victory to victory!
Germany in 1942: We've been fighting over this grain silo for a week now
It takes a group of really ignorant, egotistical, and foolhardy leaders to melt through the layers of decision making that underlie such a course of action.
Don't worry. They asked ChatGPT Grok if it was a good idea, and it said "You're absolutely right". And if the magical computer box that our entire economy now rests upon says so, it must be right.
Their president has started this war and one of his first moves was to bomb a school full of girls.
Then he goes saying that they will hit them even harder and allows the nazi jews of israhell to bomb targets that are causing hell to the civilian population.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't share the thought that what you describe will be "unfortunate".
one of his first moves was to bomb a school full of girls.
a double tap, to kill the girls and then the first responders who came to save the survivors. Thats some straight up israeli level war criminality, but we did it directly this time. I think that is what Israel wanted-- us doing war crimes like they do so the world will have a hard time coming after them for it, and they can blame it all on the US from the start.
You want civilians to die?
No. But this is not unfortunate, this is another consequence of having elected him.
By now, a president must come with a disclaimer. Just like with medicine. "May cause wars. May cause economic collapse. Read full program before voting. Discuss this with your representative."
We had that. For fuck's sake, even The Economist, that capitalist tabloid rag, ran a cover story describing how Trump would ruin the economy, alongside an entire opposing campaign built around how he would ruin everything else that used the Republicans' own literature as reference. People were warned, people knew, they don't have any excuses.
can you back that up?
Personally I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Unfortunately? You guys voted that shitbag
So the middle east countries paid top dollar to get the US 'president' to do all the things they wanted, and he ended up screwing every single one of them. When you get in bed with trump, he will eventually shit the bed, and you will have to lie in it with him. You deserve the stupid choice you made.
What a creepy image.
Rules for Being an Evil Overlord, #22: "No matter how tempted I am with the prospect of unlimited power, I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head."
I love touching glowing balls...
Shahak Shapira already corrected the image.
They got in bed with a rational USA, and the USA shat out Trump and ruined the world.
Didn't they give him a plane or something?
No they got into bed with Trump. He has mucho dinero from the Gulf nations.
Those countries have been directly funding Donald Trump and are all littered with American bases. They are absolutely involved.
I met several US Navy servicemen when I was living there.
Maybe stop allowing America to use your country as bases to terrorize and control your neighbors?
They fucking love America. How do you think they can move $100 million cargo ships full of oil around on a daily basis!
You were talking about a bunch of dictatorships that use their Neighbor slave labor to suck oil out of the ground and concentrate trillions of dollars in the hands of a few people
They should make the pertinent conclusion that US bases don't protect them, that US is only standing by Israel.
Those bases were originally built to protect them from soviet imperialism
Now its being used to forward Israeli imperialism.
The irony.
Those bases were built to protect oligarchs economic interests, nothing more.
originally built to protect them from soviet imperialism
Uhh, citation needed? Maybe a little bit during the cold war but I think it was the Gulf War that did the trick. Everyone looks at it through the hindsight of a seal clubbing victory but that's not how it looked going in. Saddam's military was legitimately terrifying and the US wasn't sure how Desert Storm would shake out.
After '91, you clearly wanted to be on the US' good side. They decided if you were safe or if you were a target. If you stayed in power or if the opposition-of-the-day (Arab Spring, ISIS, CIA, regional enemy) toppled your government.
The US started building bases in the region starting in 1946.
But the thing with bases is they are useful in many ways. There are rarely single purpose.
I hate to say this but as a former US military officer I am 100% behind Iran. The Mango Mussolini started Operation Epstein Fury as a distraction and the buzzards need to come home to roost. I am sorry people are getting killed but Iran is not going to stop now that their leader and 180 little girls have been killed.
These "Epstein Files" are just a distraction from the real intent of what's going on over there.
You lie down with dogs, you get fleas.
If you don't like being a target, get the US bases out.
As someone who grew up in Dubai I want to tell them to go fuck themselves. They made their bed, now sleep on it.
I'd submit their beds were made using slaves.
And I hope they require a cloud connection and it is severed, meaning they will overheat and their angle will be uncomfortable.
Are the Europeans learning the lesson?
Europa has been disentangling and decoupling for about a year. Cloud infrastructure, software, payment systems, defense, ... But it takes time.
Not relying on the US is only part of the solution, they have to stamp out their populist nationalism movements while they still can.
right and when are they going to say "thank you".
Protection for Petro dollar oil dies here. Trump is destroying American dominance on the world stage, it's wild to see.
Petro dollar is worthless.
It's been replaced with the pedo dollar, do try to keep up.
Australia needs to cancel our leases of American bases in Australia. Even if you think we should be aligned with the US only having Australian bases on Australian soil is in our best interests. This war has shown that any host country of American bases will be subject to attacks not only on those bases but on the host country's own military and civilian infrastructure.
Yanks out!
Let's not forget the last prime minister who tried that was Whitlam, and what then happened to him is no coincidence. The CIA reaches far and wide unfortunately.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again. Unironically who would they even put in charge if they were to try it today. Labors position now is unassailable compared to what it was in whitlams time. A snap election right now would just be a labor victory, probably greater than the one it just had, the total annihilation of the coalition and the ascendence of one nation to opposition status before it immediately implodes along with the liberals and nationals.
Pauline, perhaps? Seriously though, I get infuriated every time I think of Pine Gap and wish the government had the guts to shut it down, especially as it makes us complicit in many of the US's attacks around the world.
How are the bribes to the child rapist paying out? I see you are recieving bombs in exchange to the "payments" you made to Mango Hitler. I suppose it was the expected result? Bombs for money, isn't it?
Good. You need to keep getting bombs.
The Zionists paid more.
The Gulf states and the Saudis didn't start the war, but they have long been lobbying for an attack on Iran. They just didn't want their military personnel in the line of fire. They're either useless or, in the case of Saudi, too busy committing genocide against Yemenis.
Also in the case of the Saudis also useless. I think the only competent Arab states are Oman and Jordan. As I understand it Yemen is too fractured to really be counted one way or another, even I am tempted to add them to the list.
Seriously tho 🤣 Iran bombed the fuck out of them and now they can’t sell oil. Sorry I can’t find my compassion for the petrostate dictators. May they lose all their ill gotten gains.
I think Trump's best course of action is to take the loss, pull out and try to sell it as a "mission accomplished" at home, which might just work for the redhats.
Then he still has to hope that the mullahs take the win and leave it at that, not trying to avenge the old Khameini any further.
And he still has to hope that he hasn't permanently damaged the alliances with the Gulf states.
And he still has to hope that the economic chaos he's started doesn't escalate and it doesn't take too long to return to normal.
Etc.
I.e. the US is very likely fucked in the long term. But all other options seem even worse.
And he still has to hope that he hasn’t permanently damaged the alliances with the Gulf states.
And he still has to hope that the economic chaos he’s started doesn’t escalate and it doesn’t take too long to return to normal.
Unless those were his marching orders in the first place. Trump is a chaos agent, and he uses the disorder he causes to commit more acts of corruption and more power grabs. Every self-created crisis is a pretext to commit the next crime.
It isn't revenge for khameini.
The Iranians have tried to negotiate in good faith for decades. Now they need to inflict as much pain and violence on the global economy so people know not to fuck with them any more. The only reason to come to the table for them is if they think they can't maintain drone/missile launches.
Yeah, taking the L would be best for everyone in the short term, but the Iranians must seek nuclear arms now, at any cost, because it’s the only thing that makes other countries take each other seriously so it seems. So the options of the US all suck:
- Allow Iran to gain nuclear capability, and deal with the consequences (which I think may include a nuclear detonation on US soil). Israel and the US won’t let that happen.
- Invade, get all fissile material out of Iran, and engage in nation building activities (again) which has never ended badly /s. I think this is the most likely option.
- Declare victory and leave Israel to do their worst.
I really don’t see any other option here. The market will tank, energy prices go trough the roof, we hit another depression, and everyone the world over feels the pain. 30% of Americans will still back this play because of “freedom” or because “Kamala would have done the same thing” (I disagree, but guess who did do this? NOT KAMALA).
This die was cast when Trump tore up the nuclear deal which met be the biggest strategic blunder since Bush The Lesser invaded Iraq for no reason other than to “get even”.
My entire life we’ve been at war and I can’t believe we’re here again…
Hmm. Maybe he can put a tariff on Iran? Or maybe build a wall around it?
He'll probably just start nuking Iran instead.
He is incapable of that.
Let me cry crocodile tears and play the worlds smallest violin for the poor lil ole petrol states
had diplomatically tried to prevent.
Saudi Arabia: Yeah right...
Did they thank the orange felon/rapist/liar though?
This is possibly the one thing that will get Cheeto to pay attention. OPEC oil boys getting mad
Not after he declares himself Acting President of Iran
Nah, they're learning the lesson that they should have learned the first time he was president. He will stab EVERYONE in the back. No one is safe from him backstabbing if he thinks it'll get him something better.
As a thought exercise, I was considering what the other countries in the middle east could have done to avoid this conflict.
I ended up with nothing reliable. They did not have sufficient power to address the problems in the Iranian regime. And even if they could, the US would likely just be attacking the next state on Israel's hit list and cause similar problems.
The only thing that might have gotten close, is to outspend the Zionists in their interference in US politics.
They could have not funded him. They could have not propped him and his family up.
They thought they had a useful idiot.
They did, but he was still an idiot.
It's complicated, right? On the one hand, those Arab states couldn't have predicted this crazy US administration and had no say in the US people voting in somebody like Trump.
On the other hand, however, they are totally involved. First of all, they funneled a lot of money into Trump's election campaign and therefore are now reaping what they sowed. If you fund somebody like Trump, you get somebody like Trump. And all those conflicts in the regions are also fueled by Saudi, Qatari and Emirate money. You know who is also hosting and funding Hamas? Qatar. Who is funding all those extremist mosques? Saudi Arabia. So if they wanted peace in the region they had a lot of leverage to bring it, and they didn't.
There was saudi money behind the twitter takeover wasnt there?
Theyve actually contributed to this happening. But perhaps in a dumb way that doesnt give them any control.
It is conplicated agreed.
They certainly have enough agency to deal with the minor powers in the region. But Iran and Israel are too powerful to deal with, without some outside superpower.
Back in the second Bush Era the Saudi's heavily influenced the US and were able to convince them to deal with Saddam
But this time round it was the Zionists that contributed more. The Arab powers were also a lot more fragmented in terms of their strategy. They are rivals after all.
As a thought exercise, I was considering what the other countries in the middle east could have done to avoid this conflict
They could have closed down the American bases that Trump is using to attack Iran. That would have done the job.
Trump would have attacked from the sea. Though it would have prevented incoming attacks on their soil, their ships would still be caught in the middle.
USS Abraham Lincoln has to stay away from Iran because they keep attacking it with drones. Without bases in Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia, USA would not be able to sustain this war.
then they should have let that happen
If your running that thought experiment it's not just the Arab states funding trump and America.
Those same states could also have curtailed Iran's influence in the region as well including removing funding for the various military and terrorist groups they all have a hand in.
Frankly they have raked in the money while others suffer and now they are suffering because of it.
Meanwhile the orange toad is using the money they gave him to further his own agenda and using their countries as pawns.
As a thought experiment, what do you think would have happened if they wound down their involvement with the u.s., and actually tried to come to their own arrangement with Iran? Maybe a united front of the OPEC countries would have been enough to give the middle finger to any country that supplied Israel with weapons...
Get in bed with china, make their own deals with African nations and india to get industrial capabilities up and running, and we'd see a very large and sudden swelling of the global south.
what do you think would have happened if they wound down their involvement with the u.s., and actually tried to come to their own arrangement with Iran?
Then the US would have bombed them too. The petrodollar is the core of US economic power; it won't give it up without a fight.
This has nothing to do with what they could have done to Iran. Iran didn't start this war, Trump (and Israel) did, and every single one of those countries has financially supported Trump.
They got the US leader they wanted. Now they have to accept that they are living in his demented reality.
This is what happens when you outsource defence to a nation that has never acted altruisticly towards an ally (except Israel).
Was it Kissinger who said something along the line of "USA has no permanent allies or enemies, only interests."
KSA: "Yeah I defnitley didn't do nothing just like Israel over there. I don't even know what an Iran is"
Whole world suffering because Americans can't handle their pedophiles.
We're never going to be respected like before. We're never going to have the same soft power.
Thanks conservatives.
MBS and other Gulf dictators were begging Trump and Israel to attack Iran. They are now being served a good example of FAFO. In particular, I hope MBS and MBZ go down in flames. They are the worst of this inhuman scum.
They should start adding convenience fees to US oil.
The US is absolutely defenseless against hidden fees and surcharges.
Every single one of you were buddy buddy with Trump to America's detriment. I don't give a single shit what happens to you.
The beatings will continue until America is great again. Apparently the strategy is to lower the bar on what “great” means by dragging the entire rest of then world down.
Fuck. Them.
They didn’t start it because they’re cowards who have America and Israel do their dirty work.