google is a prison and the enemy of FOSS, we really need an alternative
2mon 28d ago by lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/not_IO in microblogmemes from lemmy.blahaj.zone
good linux phones can't come soon enough
For anyone reading this, donate to PostmarketOS if you can so we can escape google forever!
Unfortunately, Sailfish OS uses a proprietary (closed source) android compatibility layer, as well as a closed source UI.
For the parts they have open-sourced, they implementrd a CLA that contributers must sign. It's the HA-CLA-I-ANY license, which specifically allows them a perpetual Copyright and Patent license, and permission to relicense your code contributions to a more restrictive license which enables them sell or package it into a closed-source proprietary app.
Personally I'd be more comfortable supporting the development of PostmarketOS instead, since it is completely open-source with no CLA, meaning no chance of any rug-pulling in the future.
Having a CLA like that just screams "Were going to monetize all of this one day" lol
Exactly, it's like a corporate wolf in FLOSS clothing, and huge red flag.
They already do that.
Disclaimer: yes, SFOS is made by a (small) for-profit company. Always has been.
For the parts they have open-sourced, they implementrd a CLA that contributers must sign.
Just to clarify, this applies only to previously closed core components. Not app developers. But thanks for the info.
I love the constant comparison to PMOS, which has exactly 0 daily-driveable devices. SFOS has been usable since 2013, and honestly I don't see a rug-pull coming up. Call me naive.
It's a European company btw.
If you're comfortable with it being a private company that has proprietary software and utilizes a CLA for its own components, then by all means, use them.
Personally I'm at a point where I distrust any essential software that isn't GPL licensed, as that's the only way to ensure that it'll always be in the community's hands. Otherwise, we're just hedging that Sailfish won't someday be sold to a larger publicly traded company, who will then utilize the potential lock-in factor that the proprietary parts of Sailfish and the CLA'd components bring.
PMOS is certainly not in a usable state for the average person yet, which is why I suggest people donate to it so it can become more polished and support more phones.
they dont ship to the us. also the mobile-focused software is still early on linux, but as long as it is daily drivable I can handle that.
they dont ship to the us
You can get your own device and install it for free, globally.
Pre ordered my jolla a couple of days ago. So sick of tech monopolies
If some company did this with computers 20 years ago they would probably go bankrupt the next year. This is what happens when tech oligarchies are allowed.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy comparing this to some of the stuff Microsoft got in trouble for with Internet Explorer back in the '90s.
This is almost what apples infrastructure is....
The main difference is they (Apple) have been clear with their design choice since the beginning and they had their own market. Google is imposing this change on many users who did not want such an ecosystem to start with. But I suppose the market share of people who won't care about this will be large enough that they will survive, because they are a tech monopoly.
De-googled Android ROMs:
- GrapheneOS
- LineageOS
- /e/ OS
- Volla OS
Linux OSes that (allegedly) work on Android hardware (please suggest additions):
- UBPorts
- PostMarketOS
Non-android, non-apple smartphones:
- Pinephone
- Pinephone pro
- Librem 5
- Volla Phone 22
- Jolla Phone
- FuriPhone FLX1s
And pretty much every feature phone out there (way too many to list)
De-googled Android ROMs:
Aren't most of them de-googled? Usually you install gApps separately, unless that's changed
Non-android, non-apple smartphones:
Not non-android out of the box, but just to add to your list: Ubuntu reports that nearly everything except VoLTE works on the Fairphone 4 and 5, but sadly they don't support the 6 yet. PostMarketOS shows more issues
I would guess that most Android ROMs are OEM ones that are not degoogled (and have the added spyware of Cellular Service Providers or phone brands), I'm not familiar enough with AOSP Stock Images to make a judgment on those, and the rest that I know of—which are actively maintained and have been around long enough brand-recognition that I trust them to be non-glitchy and spyware free—comprise the above list.
If you got more suggestions, I will gladly add them to the list though.
Ubuntu reports that nearly everything except VoLTE works on the Fairphone 4 and 5
Oh snap, so is that UBPorts? I'm not sure how to classify that tbh, I might need a 3rd category that's Linux Phone OSes that work on Android-focused phones. Actually, just looking at it rn and it looks like PostMarket claims to support over 700 devices...
I love my Pinetime watch. Really rooting for that company.
I got the Manjaro edition of the PinePhone, but then tried to multi-boot image. I wish it had been better, but the call quality was abysmal; basically required a headset to be tenable. It's a great miniature computer, but a really awful phone. I'm hoping the PinePhone Pro is better, and it looks promising according to the forums, but I won't get to try it for awhile.
FuriLabs mentioned 😲🥹
I absolutely love my FLX1s
I don't have them, they just come up in a search for "Linux-based Phone." Please share your experience if you have the time! People need to know what they're getting into!
Totally degoogled graphene phones can't come soon enough.
you can use a pin instead of biometrics by the way
Still a waiting period, as if half the play store isnt spyware.
Linux or Graphene?
I say Linux.
I read Linux phobe first and got so confused.
Both actually
Graphene if you give a damn about security and privacy.
i have come to love just not owning a smartphone anymore.
World is way more of an adventure when you out and about without internet connection on you.
Wana know how to get somewhere? Find a map or ask someone.
Pay something? There is cash for that.
Wana take a picture? Just take a camera with you, because lets be real 99% of the pics in your smartphones camera roll wont get viewed ever again anyhow.
Wana meet with other people? Well make out a time and spot before u leave the house...
Wana be reachable to others while u out and about? Dont! Its a wonderfull feeling not to be.
Wana pass some time while waiting for someone/something? Bring a book.
Sure it may be inconvinient for others that you are not instantly reachable 24/7. But its a wonderfull feeling not to be. To comunicate on your own terms.
That's life before 2000, or even up to 2005 or like. Was not bad, really. Internet was slow and stuck in computers, astalavista, radium, emule and burning dvds The evolution of cellphones into smartphones was somehow a bad move for humanity
Don't worry bro we got AI now bro that's all that was holding us back
Spoken like someone who isn't responsible for others. My kid is ADHD and autistic. She's high functioning, but that doesn't mean I get to just be unreachable. I'm several people's emergency contacts. I have to travel unknown places all the time and be there exactly to get the help my kid needs.
I'm a single mother. I trade off whatever they are stealing from me for the ability to get cheaper versions of what my kid needs. My job is flexible, so it allows me to take my kid to what she needs with the understanding that I can answer questions when I'm away.
Oh, I also have a deadly neurodegenerate disease that is only kept in check by this specific medication that I need to be places for a while to get. I like my phone reminding me to go get that and also being able to fill out the paperwork on my phone because of my shitty hands.
A lot of people I see who are like, "Just live without a phone!" Are not the people who are actually responsible for people and/or things. I was like that when I was young, but then you know, I became a pillar of my family and friend network. People who are unreachable when needed are dropped from my network. I know several people who when I actually needed them and it was very dire, were unreachable. I left them messages and everything. Nope. Don't think they ever knew the issue. Dropped. Sorry even in the 90s and 00s, you were expected to listen to your voice mails promptly. I shouldn't have to mount a search party to find you, which is actually necessary for some people I know.
you were expected to listen to your voice mails promptly.
i do, when i am back home.
Tell me how many people rely on you? Because being unavailable for hours can actually be deadly to a child you are responsible for.
I have 3 examples I have experienced, one with my own child where if I or the other person was just unavailable while they were outside of the house, irreparable damage would have happened to the child. Or in my in kid's case, she would have just died.
Sorry that you're dealing with a rough situation. But you don't need to get mad and make assumptions just because someone lives differently from you.
Sorry but making kids was your life style choice, and i wont feel sorry for not making any.
Sounds wondeful, though it's not possible in some parts of the world. Here in Sweden you need a phone to use a lot of services, and very few places still accept cash as payment.
At that point would not stripping a smartwatch be better? No need to carry around a phone.
Fair enough.
Luckily I'm still at the point where nothing I need to do absolutely requires a smartphone with either iOS or Google Android but it sure feels like that day is coming.
I have requirements for one too, I think a good middle ground is turning it off for a few hours a couple times a week or a day a week or take a walk/hike away from cell reception when I'm not oncall for work.
I am lucky to life in a place where its my constitutional right to be able to pay with cash everywhere and they have to accept it
Damn, it must be nice not to have any responsibilities or people that count on you for things.
Incredible, huh, that nobody in the pre smartphone era had any responsibilities for the whole of human history...and now with em we all suddenly do.
Its your choice to be reachable on your terms. Everything else is u caving in to peer pressure of a over communicative society.
Oh my, I hadn't accounted for the fact that things hadn't changed at all in the past 40 years, you're absolutely right. Nothing is different, no one has any needs or expectations outside of what happened back then.
It's your choice to live in the 80's. don't let anyone pressure you to become a useful part of society!
that but unironic, have fun tho conforming
A lot of those things are possible, if a bit inconvenient. BUT I am old enough to have lived through the time before GPS and smartphones and navigating without it - especially in an unknown city - is simply terrible.
If you have never experienced having to park your car and walk around, looking for a street name, just to find out where the hell you are... Count yourself lucky.
Listen to an old timer: I never want to go back to that.
Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't drive around a lot or only in well known areas.
There is offline GPS tho.
I'm sorry no one ever calls you or cares about you. It probably doesn't have anything to do with you being an insufferable bloviator.
Are you speaking from personal experience there?
lmao project harder troll
Stolen from elsewhere:
You are not getting screwed on this. Google is just applying lube.
And then after doing all that you still need to confirm a scary warning every single time you install an app. As if it wasn't enough.
Openness was the primary reason I always stuck with android. Without that, fuck them. If I have no options I'm just gonna use Huawei.
Can anyone explain how this isn't an illegal monopoly? I'm genuinely curious
Because there are more iPhones in America.
Ignore that Apple also makes it impossible to side load apps.
I'm not criticizing you because that's the typical term, but we really need to stop calling it side loading. It's just installing. Calling it that makes it sound like something special and different.
Apple was the canary in the coal mine for this behavior in the EU. Apple was forced to allow third party apps, so Apple mandated that everyone had to register with them, and pay them their yearly fee, and then developers had to pay Apple another fee (core technology fee, still double dipping), and governments were completely fine with that. (And developers will happily jump through more hoops to develop on iOS).
Google saw this and decided if they can, so can Google. And this technically is the easier of the two as at least this doesn't require every developer to register with Google this way.
Really good point to illustrate how liberal reform efforts just redirect capitalist control into an increasingly contrived legal system.
Doesn't matter when the CEO sits at the table with the US president. If it's illegal it won't be enforced. Or it'll be made legal. Or it won't be made illegal. And if you want to make it illegal in your country - there's punitive tariffs coming your way from the US president.
The public institutions responsible for tearing apart monopolies would have a field day with google if they were even remotely as powerful and willing as they used to be.
Because there are alternatives. No one is forcing you to use Android.
Confirm with biometrics... WTF?!
People should have the universal right to live a cellphone-free life. In my country, it is assumed that everyone uses an iPhone or a Google Android phone as if it was part of your own self.
I'm confused by this comment. The outrage is that if you want to use your phone, in the modern smartphone sense of the word which uses apps, then you have to do so by Google's rules which excludes a lot of apps you might want to run, or jump through ridiculous hoops apparently including biometrics to do so with your own device. That's terrible, but, this particular outrage is quite separate to one's ability to live a cellphone free life. I'm not going to pretend like that's not increasingly unfeasible, but this issue with identified developers doesn't have much to do with it since it's only an issue for you if you're even using a phone in the first place and then it just makes using it a much shittier time then it ought to be, it doesn't lessen or increase the dependency upon phones in general.
It's about control, in the end. Citizens are now linked by the governments to their phone numbers, as well as companies make it a priority to get your phone number and data.
Somewhere in the middle of not using a mobile at all and having a device that monitors everything you do, non stop, are owning a dumb phone and having some control on the apps you install in your smartphone.
They used to publish a whole book that had your name, and often address linked to your phone. B don't perfect that this fake outrage by you is anything but disingenuous for what phones and any other hundred identifiers of you as a person to the government or anyone else. Your argument is infantile in it's temper tantrum for it's argument.
If you are fine with it, more power to you. You can call me whatever you want, I don't know you and couldn't care less. But when I see older people struggling with bank representatives demanding them to comply with ridiculous policies, well, I'll keep myself damn angry as long as it takes.
Wouldn't that just mean enter your lock code if you don't have thumbprint lock enabled?
I'd be interested in seeing a statistic of how much this reduces the impact of intentionally malicious apps. I know it's not the real motivation, but still.
Given that the official Google Play store has distributed intentionally malicious apps in the past, I'd say it reduces it by approximately none.
I'm sure it's a non-zero effect.
It'll also paint targets on the backs of people who are using newpipe, greyjay, and pipepipe. I'll be interesting to see if they try to coorelate people running adblock as pirates and start dumping google accounts. You could run those apps logged out prior and remain anonymous. It's very likely package installed will rat you out now.
It's possible that part of why those attacks don't really happen is precisely because it's already so controlled. That said, I still think this is BS. Don't mistake me as defending Google here.
Is this actually 100% true?
I know Google/Android/Alphabet sucks but this seems over the top even for them.
Thanks. The xheet and this article are almost identical.
protective waiting period
triggers me. It only protects their business interests, because that's the biggest of the multiple hurdles that are all designed to disincentivize people from doing that.
Also read: security theater
I wouldn't go quite that far. It doesn't only protect their business interest; it definitely does achieve the goals they claim—like helping non-tech-literate users to avoid getting scammed with malware—it's just they're only doing it this way because it also aligns with their business interest.
To that end I'd contest the "Security Theater" label. All security measures are ultimately implemented in a way that defends the interests of the owners. It's just that people have forgotten or aren't aware that Proprietary Software means they're not the owners.
Of course if it was just about users' safety, the most effective way to help people avoid getting scammed is to educate them, but that would make people less dependent on Google and less susceptible to vendor lock-in, and people may even start having dangerous thoughts like "it sure is weird how many identifying traits of a scam are also just standard business practices for large corporations like Google."
All for a scam, that rarely happens...
and worse, scams that are ALL over the play store
Graphene os is a good alternative to android. Its privacy and security focused, and also does not come with google serviced preinstalled. The only problem is that its only supported on google pixels, and porting it to other devices is impossible.
Didn't I hear that they're planning to release graphene on Motorola?
Yes, that will be my next phone provided the price is decent and it has a headphone jack and everything else I need
I'm hoping for a MicroSD card slot. I'm on a Note 20 Ultra which I planned to run for far longer but it got the infamous "random green line out of nowhere" problem. I think Sony is the only one who still puts it in flagships
Shoot I also recently got the freaking green line a few weeks ago. Yeah I also refuse to have a phone without a microsd option, why TF are they doing away with that?
To sell cloud storage.
Pretty much. On a Sony Xperia 1 V and it works great (best phone I've ever had). Downside is that the bootlocker for the US version is locked (AT&T thing) so I can't just put lineageos on it or something, so I've been on the lookout for a replacement recently, and the pickings are pretty sparse.
I'm probably gonna have to ride out the stupid Google bullshit for a few months until there is a decent alternative, as the graphene phone from Motorola probably won't be released this year (and even then it probably won't have a headphone jack and a micro SD card slot) and pretty much all of the Linux phones available now don't really meet my needs (also no headphone jack on something like the jolla phone, which as someone used to Linux for years, I know Bluetooth headphones aren't much of a solid option).
Really hope they'll have an alternative to Google Wallet. One thing I'd miss.
Thats it, planned, and not yet released. But its good that at least in future there will be more options for a smartphone with foss operating system.
Also, while in practice it would propably never happen, i hope that in the future, more smartphone makers will put alternative operating systems on their phones, or at least make it easier to install third party operating systems on their phones, like it is done on googles own pixels.
You never know. For the time being, foss supporters and enthusiasts are the minority. But with the rising surveillance and information restrictions, such as it is happening with ID/age verification checks in many countries, people will start looking for ways to walk around all this pathetic chicken wire. VPNs seem to do the job for now, but I wonder if maybe alternative OS will gain traction in a not so distant future. They would allow for more flexibility and options
I mean, getting verified as a developer is a similar pain in the ass in other ecosystems. I recently got an LG smart TV and the developer mode there automatically runs out and deletes all unofficial apps after 9999h if you don't manually go into the developer app and extend the time.
My hot take is that you shouldn't have to claim that you're a developer to sideload content. It should be allowed for normal users 🤷
I am not 100% clear on this. Is sideloading different from installing an APK from unknown source by simply taping on it?
It should be just called installing, but they call it sideloading to make it sound shady and complicated.
No that is side loading, and they're making it more difficult
If I understood correctly, installing an app from any source that's not GooglePlay or the official app store of the device manufacturer is 'side loading' in that regard. Thus, this also applies to e.g. F-Droid or Aurora.
So what's the user experience like on an alternative OS?
Daily-driving SFOS for 6 years. AMA.
Do you use mostly Android apps?
I heard that the native browser is still some ancient Firefox fork. There is surprisingly little information about native apps anywhere, it strongly feels like they are mostly focusing on Android app compatibility. SailfishOS also has more closed source than I'd like to. Most often it does not end well.
I preordered the new Jolla phone, but after looking around the app side of things for a while, I cancelled. I'm not switching from Android to "sort of Android" -phone. If (or rather when, as I think it will happen) Google kills F-Droid and other ways to get apps, I will take another look on what's available. Ubuntu Touch maybe, but I understand their browser is also quite old, and that's one thing that should be up to date, at least, in my opinion. Or maybe just a dumb phone, and a separate camera. For maps, maybe a "prices-begin-from" Wahoo for finding routes. Sure, this approach will cost more, take more space, but I'm not going to go into the walled garden of Google or Apple.
About Jolla and SailfishOS, I am no expert. I ended up cancelling knowing that if I change my mind I will have to pay a lot of extra. Anyway, for the moment I am happy with my decision.
Do you use mostly Android apps?
No.
ls -1 /usr/share/applications/
Pacpac.desktop
csd.desktop
fingerterm.desktop
google-maps-geo-handler.desktop
harbour-2048.desktop
harbour-allradio2.desktop
harbour-android-offline.desktop
harbour-barcode.desktop
harbour-colortubes.desktop
harbour-crest.desktop
harbour-fbreader.desktop
harbour-file-browser.desktop
harbour-fivinarow.desktop
harbour-heebo.desktop
harbour-ieligimage.desktop
harbour-ieligweb.desktop
harbour-lonewolf.desktop
harbour-meecast.desktop
harbour-molecules.desktop
harbour-org.gpodder.sailfish.desktop
harbour-osmscout.desktop
harbour-ownkeepass.desktop
harbour-paketti.desktop
harbour-patience-deck.desktop
harbour-pipes.desktop
harbour-pure-maps-uri-handler.desktop
harbour-pure-maps.desktop
harbour-qml2048.desktop
harbour-sailpipe.desktop
harbour-sailtrix.desktop
harbour-sailtube-open-url.desktop
harbour-sailtube.desktop
harbour-sailtuner.desktop
harbour-seabass.desktop
harbour-sfos-forum-viewer.desktop
harbour-simplemahjong.desktop
harbour-sshazam.desktop
harbour-storeman.desktop
harbour-stppc.desktop
harbour-talefish.desktop
harbour-taot.desktop
harbour-wireshark.desktop
harbour-wordle.desktop
hosts-block-add-to-blacklist.desktop
hosts-block-add-to-whitelist.desktop
jolla-calculator.desktop
jolla-calendar.desktop
jolla-camera-lockscreen.desktop
jolla-camera-viewfinder.desktop
jolla-camera.desktop
jolla-clock.desktop
jolla-contacts.desktop
jolla-email.desktop
jolla-gallery.desktop
jolla-mediaplayer.desktop
jolla-messages.desktop
jolla-notes.desktop
jolla-settings.desktop
l2tp-import.desktop
mimeinfo.cache
new-mail.desktop
openconnect-import.desktop
openrepos-books.desktop
openstreetmap-geo-handler.desktop
org.kde.angelfish.desktop
ovpn-import.desktop
pptp-import.desktop
qCommand.desktop
qt-runner.desktop
quaeditor.desktop
retroarch.desktop
sailfish-archive.desktop
sailfish-audiorecorder.desktop
sailfish-browser.desktop
sailfish-captiveportal.desktop
sailfish-installationhandler.desktop
sailfish-office.desktop
sailfish-share.desktop
sailfish-tutorial.desktop
sailfishos-chum-gui.desktop
simkit.desktop
store-client.desktop
systemdatascope.desktop
uk.co.piggz.harbour-supersonik.desktop
voicecall-ui.desktop
vpnc-import.desktop
webcal-import.desktop
wheelmap-geo-handler.desktop
wireshark.desktop
None of those is Android (but not all are actual "apps").
I heard that the native browser is still some ancient Firefox fork.
I wouldn't say ancient; it's based on FF ESR98 or so's embedlite. But yeah, this is a topic of much discontent. Natively, it's relatively easy to install Angelfish (KDE) based on a much more timely webkit. Via Android appsupport many current browsers are available.
There is surprisingly little information about native apps anywhere, it strongly feels like they are mostly focusing on Android app compatibility.
It's one of their main selling points, but native apps are definitely abundant. There's the offical store, which does not have a browsable web frontend, and 2 unofficial stores: https://openrepos.net/and https://sailfishos-chum.github.io/.
SailfishOS also has more closed source than I’d like to. Most often it does not end well.
I understand, but it has been going well since 2013. IMO the closed source thing is historical: they are the heirs of Nokia's Linux-based OSs. But slowly they are opensourcing parts of the OS.
Ultimately, this is a European company I can trust. The devs are active on the forum, too.
BTW, it is still and always will be possible to download & install SFOS on your own device, for €0.
Their website has this dishonnest “99€” for their flagship
It’s a trap, you need read the fine print to find out
I wouldn't go quite that far. It says "Sep 26" on the first page - which already points to some sort of preorder - and when you click on it you are immediately told in the sidebar that the full payment is 649€.
But I agree, they could've done it better.
Don't have a question, but I feel I might be joining you, no matter how janky it is.
Graphene has been great for me.
Yeah but what's it like?
Its like using Android.
Oh, neat!
Can you use the play store? Can you install apks from github? Can you use launchers?
Yes.
Can you use banking apps, Google wallet, Google pay (or other NFC payments)?
I could use banking apps yes, there is a resource on the grapheneOS forums.
Wallet, pay are not working, iirc. Don't use graphene anymore since i don't have a pixel anymore
Cool, thanks
The only thing that was not working as well for me was GPS, but that was probably my own fault, i maybe misconfigured something.
You have to configure gps?
No, but it might not be as good as one might expect out of the box. In most implementations of gps, location accuracy and latency is helped with additional methods, like your phone using its distance to various cell towers to figure out where it is. Features like this can come with privacy issues, which for Graphene is a higher priority issue than slightly worse navigation. You can of course go into location settings and enable all that, just make sure to read the added disclaimers as they go into more detail.
Thanks for the explanation!
Seconded. Been rocking GrapheneOS since the Pixel 4 XL (my goat minus the bloated battery issue), the Pixel 6 Pro (which sucked as a phone since it uses Google's shit-tier Tensor modem), then Pixel 8 Pro (which seems to have a better Tensor chip, though still not great in some areas for cell reception).
All the banking apps I use work flawlessly on Graphene. Of course, payment/wallet apps won't work, and I've only had two experiences where that bit me in the ass (attending concerts and needing to open a ticket in a wallet app I couldn't even use).
The added security features are top notch. Being able to set a duress password definitely helps in case I'm ever in a situation where I'm forced by a pig to unlock my phone, and setting multiple profiles on my phone helps so much with compartmentalization.
Would I prefer if Graphene were on a different phone? Fuck yes, which is why as soon as the Motorola partnership produces a phone (with Qualcomm Snapdragon hopefully), I'm jumping the Pixel ship and never looking back. Hoping that's just the beginning for Graphene being ported to other phones, though I feel it's gonna be like pulling teeth with these other phone manufacturers (like FairPhone).
Ok this sucks, but there is something that seems to be not implied. Wait one day, then confirm with biometrics, then decide if you want this only this time, or 1 week, or forever. You have to only deal with this one time if you choose forever (as long as you don't reinstall, I assume).
This is by no means ideal, but I think I'm ok with this. In a way I believe the rhetoric they are framing, to protect the vulnerable populace (e.g. the elderly) from frauds. For your phone, you can get the hurdle over one time, if you are installing for your parent you can do "don't ask me for a week, or ask me again everytime", so they don't install something malicious as part of a guided "tech support". Not saying that will prevent all and any spams but it will add some barrier. Just my opinion though, I could be off base with this.
I do wish that 1 day waiting was a bit shorter.
You're off base with this. Almost unbelievably so.
They know they aren't concerned with scams, why are you pretending? The move is to restrict competition and improve surveillance capacity as much as possible with as much legal protection as possible for Google. "Vulnerable people" don't typically know how to use F-Droid, and scammers would take a week to find out am effective alternative even if this was somehow their main tactic; which it is not and they did fine before it was an option.
I own my phone. I get to pick what is installed on it. The fucking mandatory Google apps were already too far, this is straight up telegraphing intent to commodify as much of my life as they can get access to. Even beyond how fucking bad this is for the overall health of tech development and sovereignty, I dont want a company that is complicit with a fascist state to force me or anyone else who would challenge that state to register our fucking identities with them. For all I fucking know, they'd get me thrown into a camp as readily as they'd cut off my access to pirated media. You think it's a coincidence they're doing this shit at the same time liberals and fascists are desperately trying to seize some kind of control over the internet? It's for grandma's safety? The fuck it is.
I dont want a company that is complicit with a fascist state to force me or anyone else who would challenge that state to register our fucking identities with them.
Now in fairness to google, they're complicit with multiple fascist states.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. I bought my device, I should own it and install whatever the fuck I want. Whatever the fuck google is doing is putting barrier in opening "their market to other stores". This is malicious compliance in google's part that 'oh yeah you can install from whatever source but you gotta do this list of ridiculous thing before you do". I am only surprised the "install from any source" isn't a paid 'DLC'.
I do realize when I wrote what I wrote, I sound like a employee from the marketing department of google. My words "I think I'm ok with this" is probably wrong, more like I kinda understand the notion behind it, (assuming a world where they were doing this in good faith, which they are not).
But. Scams are a thing, and elderly are good targets, something to help against that (which wasn't apparently an issue until now for google) would be great. What they are offering does help a bit, but it's not a good way. I do hope there will be a better solution than this.
This would mean something if the old people google is pretending to give a shit about couldn't already download all sorts of scammy shit from google's official store.
Yes exactly.
The same with "oh we need the app creator/publisher to register so people don't submit random shitty apps". <looks at google's play store populated with bunch of random shitty, scammy apps>
Still worth it for revanced!
Is it just me or do Linux phones not support 5g
The new Jolla phone does support it
I heard they cause aids too
From what I've seen, VoLTE support is also pretty iffy too.
It's just you. I can't really disprove a negative, but e.g. SailfishOS supports 5G.
You can't prove a negative. You can disprove a negative simply by showing an example. Which you just did.
With these steps, you might as well unlock your bootloader. WTF.
Or, just use ADB and be done with it.
They'll come for that next, don't worry
Okay so why not fork android and do everything foss?
Yes
Don't be cartoonishly evil?
You have a very low bar for what evil is apparently.
It seems reasaonable though except the one day wait, but in the end it's still fine.
I welcome this shit as I hate having an app forced on me for every web service available. Use the web. Or another OS
When have you ever had an app that needs to be sideloaded forced on you? This isn't going to affect any of the apps on the play store that big companies try to push you into installing.
I'm with the other guy here. Have you run in to web services that ask you to sideload apps from outside of the play store?? I hate that Google's doing this but even I find that idea an inherently sketchy security nightmare.
Are you sure you're not just referring to apps generally including those from the app store? Because web services redirecting you in to using their unnecessary and unwanted apps on the play store is very much still going to be happening. These new measures just make it so you can only get apps from the play store and not elsewhere.
Psst... [whispers] hey... Use DuckDuckGo.
I don't know if you're kidding but the post is about phone operating systems, so unless DuckDuckGo launched an OS you're talking out of your ass.
Please explain
Android, one of the largest phone operating systems is owned by Google. Android used to be somewhat customizable but lately Google has been putting a stop to this in a lot of ways, like what's described in the post above. This has very little to do with DuckDuckGo.
What's that have to do with non-appstore installs?
I know I'm in the minority, but I find acceptable. I haven't sideloaded anything in a while, but this just means waiting a week when I get a new phone. Usually it takes me longer than that to fully migrate, so it's like a non issue.
It's google's platform, there's nothing to give them. They have shown for the last 2 decades they take decisions based on money and whiny powerusers and tech reviewers are not their main concern. Downvote all you want, obviously it's not what people want to hear, but it's the reality.
Yeah the only thing we can do in this relationship is NOT give them our business. Which I, ironically, say as a Google pixel owner.
It's their restaurant they get to make their food however they want and if we don't like it we just don't eat there.
Personally I'm looking to change os but when it comes time to replace my phone I'll be buying European or Asian. If I can rid myself of American businesses in my life, I'll feel much better.
Yep, I agree. However, the only other viable option is even worse. When I was younger I had time to play with Linux phones, I even dailyed two of them for over a year each. Nowadays I just don't care that much.
Nah fuck that, I'd like to install the apps I use on day one not wait a week, most things I use come from F-Droid.
A non issue for you, but extremely annoying and privacy invasive nonetheless, you're just fine with annoying privacy violations.
It's not an issue for me and for 99.998% of users out there. I know it's hard to believe on lemmy, but the average user doesn't even know what sideloading is, let alone needing it.
Well then why make it harder and more invasive for those who do use it? You work for google or something?
To avoid scams and security problems, pr disasters if it happens, revenue loss... Same reason iOS doesn't allow it.
Whether I work for Google or not shouldn't matter, but glad you think that, I'll take it as a compliment.
I haven’t used Google anything since 2010. What’s your struggle lmfao
banking.
public transport.
government anything.
...
Google banking? Google transport? Google government?
Is this your first day on Earth?
Those apps are all only avaible through the Google Play Store and downloading the banking app from somewhere else is likely causing serious trouble.
Www.your-bank.com
Name a bank without a website lmfao.
When you don't have a real response, responding as if you're a moron doesn't help your point.
what have you used then? the only other option thats really viable as a complete daily driver solution is iphones and iOS and that has all the same issues just without pretending to be open source
Lmao you're never going to get a genuine reply from this
yeah, that was kinda the point. dude was lying out of his ass
I feel like you don't understand what we're taking about here
Oh?
There are two options for mobile phone operating systems and now both of them restrict their users freedoms to install software as they see fit.
So you either don't care about software freedom or don't understand the problem.