Great to meet you, ya piece of scum!
2mon 26d ago by piefed.ca/u/MyBrainHurts in fedimemes@feddit.uk from media.piefed.ca
I'm working on it. Maybe. Well, one day. Like when other Left of centre, anti trump, anti corpo type folks oppose the things I oppose in correct manner and degree, duh.
One of the most interesting things I noticed about the fediverse is that while I disagree very heartily on politics with a number of people I rarely disagree with them on everything, even most things really. There's few enough users that you're going to see people you have tagged, after they've said crazy or insane shit, who then go on to make points you agree with 100%. It's very odd. I guess it's why the fediverse feels more genuine to me.
Maybe the other place was just more absolute bots trying to push specific agendas. Cause it seemed way different there.
I have had a very similar observation based on a feature of Voyager that shows you the total upvotes you have given a user, net of downvotes, next to their name.
In addition to what you observe, I’ve also saved myself from being too dismissive or reading a comment more carefully based on that number at least being an indication that I’ve had good interactions with this person in the past.
God that's such a cool feature. Jerboa was by far the best app when I joined lemmy but it's really been surpassed.
You are +6 for me, by the way, so we must have had some good interaction
Ooooh that's a neat metric to help! I've been using an ever expanding system of notes but it's much more labour intensive than that!
If you have multiple accounts, which most of us probably do for stability reasons, it also aggregates everything across them so vote counts and user tags still show up on brand new accounts.
It’s very very nice.
I didn’t know that, that is sick.
But some just go to such an extreme I find it difficult to not have the insults that were hurled at me in the back of my head, even on takes where I do agree with them. Like, yeah, I agree with you, but you did call me an imperial pig and a fascist so fuck you anyway.
Nice name
i mean part of why i exist is to say crazy shit. i am not entirely here let's be honest.
TIL about tagging users. thanks.
It's not odd. They are people.
What's odd is your expectation that you can have nothing in common with someone you disagree with over one thing.
NEW USER: "I came to Lemmy because Reddit permabanned me for saying puppies and kittens are cute."
Then I find myself looking at their comment/post history because that doesn't really sound like a normal thing anybody would get banned for. And after seeing what they post/comment here, I think to myself "I disagree with permabanning people, but I think I understand why it might've been done."
Ahahaha, yeah I'm instantly a little suspicious when someone says they got permabanned for "nothing, absolutely nothing!"
Just admit you got permabanned for saying we should normalize punching nazis, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's why we're all here.
Lol I got a temp once for referencing milkshake in a certain context. Advocating violent moo juice
That wasn't site-wide, was it? That doesn't sound like reddit admins, more like subreddit-specific mods.
That was a sub.
That's funny, because I originally wrote "hunting nazis" but revised it to "punching nazis" to make it more palatable to the non-violent. Although either statement would get you banned on reddit...
the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
💀
Gentryfried@feddit.uk, is there something you disagree with my statement?
do you think that Nazi's should live in the same world as the rest of us?
As far as I knew all Nazis have been dead for a long time...if there are living Nazi's, shouldn't they be dead?
I can only hope the downvote was because even dead nazis are bad.
Fwiw, I automatically downvote this childish shit because almost everyone online seems to call anyone they dislike a Nazi.
If you're using pop history's biggest bad guys to refer to everyone with whom you disagree, oknbut you don't also get to claim the moral high ground that comes with punching aforementioned popular history's worst bad guys.
You're just saying you want to punch those with whom you disagree, minus the intellectual justification.
The part where you're wrong is when you assume I'm using "nazi" to refer to anyone I disagree with. Maybe some people do that, and that would be both childish and incorrect. Similar to some people using "communist" the same way.
However, that's not how I use the terms. I have more than a surface-deep level of understanding pertaining to fascism, and I'm capable of recognizing the signs and symptoms. Are you?
Anyone who's been paying attention can see the resurgence of fascism happening plain as day. People openly praising hitler should not be normal. People doing nazi salutes or parading nazi flags should not be normal. Government officials instituting nazi-esque policies, with nazi-style tactics, for professed reasons that are reminiscent of nazi-like worldviews, should not be normal.
Your comment is no different from when tankies get upset when I call them tankies, and they claim that I'm only calling them that because I disagree with them. No, I only call people tankies if they're behaving like tankies. There are specific argumentative styles that distinguish them.
I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing with someone without calling them a nazi or a tankie, if they're not behaving like a nazi or a tankie. If they are, then their behavior needs to be corrected. If they refuse to correct their behavior, then they should be rejected, shunned, and removed from polite society.
Society cannot tolerate intolerance, or else it will become an intolerant society. And the only people arguing otherwise do so only to try to justify their own intolerance.
So it's pretty sus that you come here trying to obfuscate things by claiming it's childish to call out nazism (or if you prefer more generally, for technical accuracy, fascism; although literal neonazis have also made a resurgence).
I have more than a surface-deep level of understanding pertaining to fascism, and I’m capable of recognizing the signs and symptoms.
Watching Andor or some youtuber doesn't count as a significant understanding of fascism.
If you'd actually learned about fascism, you'd know that the Brownshirts and Blackshirts both were itching for street level fights and that the resulting chaos in the streets fueled perceptions of mayhem which helped enable both fascist movements to enact more sweeping laws etc.
The reason trump sent ICE into Democratic cities with smaller immigrant communities was precisely because he was hoping people would be dumb enough to start throwing punches or better/worse yet, kill an officer.
You beat nascent fascism movements by convincing people. You don't win by punching randoms. As my friend had to explain to her young son, "you might be right but the moment you throw a punch, you've lost. Doesn't matter if you're in the right, you've lost."
Honestly, if I were one of the digital overlords of social media and I wanted to help the trump administration, I can think of few things more effective than promoting this idea of punching "nazis". If enough idiots listen and we start throwing serious punches, we'll lose.
If you want to learn, it's a bit of a slog but I can think of few books better than Shirers Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
Watching Andor or some youtuber doesn't count as a significant understanding of fascism.
That's a pretty big fucking assumption that you're making about me and the background of my knowledge. If you won't take this conversation seriously, then neither will I. Bye.
It's based on what you wrote.
No one who has read anything serious about fascism suggests punching people is anything but helpful to the regime.
You might read Timothy Snyder's "On Tyranny". It's very short and quite well written.
I've read it. I've also read Hannah Arendt, Umberto Eco, and other scholars of fascism.
But if you're just going to assume my criticism of fascism is based on a fiction series made by Disney of all fucking companies, then I'm not going to waste my time discussing these things with you.
When I got banned from reddit for saying we should normalize punching nazis, it was from before this regime took hold, when it was still a foreboding storm cloud on the horizon. It was maybe 2023 or 2024, when an innocent black man was beaten to death by cops, and a photograph circulated of a dude who wore a nazi armband to the man's funeral.
I'm sorry, but if you think the appropriate response to that is anything other than to use physical force to chase him away and teach him never to pull that shit again out of fear for what will happen to him, then I just can't agree with you.
The Allies in WWII didn't defeat the nazis by being nice. I recognize the situation isn't comparable, because there's no coalition of global superpowers capable and willing to depose the current regime in the US, and no ragtag band of rebels has the resources or backing, let alone the organization or the experience, that it would take to stand against the government, and any escalation would spell disaster for the last remnants of hope there are for an electoral offramp from this madness. But that's simply not the context that I was posting in.
Feel free keep handling fascists with kiddie gloves, but that treatment is what enabled them to seize power in the first place. Not because people were treating them too harshly. Neville Chamberlain would like a word...
I’ve read it. I’ve also read Hannah Arendt, Umberto Eco, and other scholars of fascism.
And you're still comparing where we are now with WWII... And missing the entirety of how these movements get from where we are now to full on authoritarianism. Violence in the streets has been an essential part of fascist regimes. Both the Brownshirts and Blackshirts revelled in the street fights and their political masters used them to point out disorder etc. There's a reason Eco's essay is fourteen ways to look at a Blackshirt.
I dunno, to have seriously read about fascism and advocating throwing punches nowadays is a mind boggling contradiction unless you want more fascism, which I presume is not your goal.
Again, it's why trump has almost exclusively sent ICE to Democratic cities and why DHS was super ready to claim Good and Pretti were domestic terrorists. The trump administration is itching for people to follow your advice so that they can point to violent disorder in the streets and give themselves more powers etc. It's textbook shit.
It's as if someone was talking about how they'd just seen Sound of Music but thought it was weird to make a movie about singing nazis. The pieces are sort of there I guess for that but it takes a wild interpretation to get there. At that point, my first 8 guesses would not be that you've seen the movie. Similarly, if you're advocating things that fascists crave, well, I'm not sure how much of that reading has sunk in?
"Apes don't read philosophy!"
"They do Otto, they just don't understand it."
Edit: a format
And you're still comparing where we are now with WWII... And missing the entirety of how these movements get from where we are now to full on authoritarianism.
You're contradicting yourself in your first two sentences. We don't have to be in full swing WWII/Holocaust conditions to point out when fascism is making a resurgence. It didn't all happen in a day. It took years to build up the the worst of it.
People writing it off now because "It's not as bad as the holocaust" need to realize that even Nazi Germany "wasn't as bad" as the worst of the Holocaust, until it reached the point when it was.
Burying our heads in the sand now and opting for appeasement is not a solution. I'm not saying we should all go out and get in brawls with ICE because that would obviously be pointless suicide, and it would give them the PR that they want.
You're ignoring that this whole conversation started from the part where I referenced something that happened years ago, before the fascists were in power but when they were just starting to feel more comfortable coming out into the open. We should have never let them get that comfortable.
Anyone wearing a fucking nazi armband to the funeral of someone who had just been bludgeoned to death by cops, should have been run out of town at the very least. Better if they had been made a public example out of.
Similarly, if you're advocating things that fascists crave
Fascists crave war, but if the Allies didn't give it to them, then we'd all be speaking German! Appeasement is not the answer. Do you suggest that a tolerant society should tolerate intolerance?
It didn’t all happen in a day. It took years to build up the the worst of it.
That's literally the point.
You deal with nascent/rising fascism through different means than when it is full blown. Public opinion still matters at this stage, unlike when fascism has taken hold.
and it would give them the PR that they want.
You even seem to understand that the violence is exactly what they want.
should have been run out of town at the very least.
Doxxed, fired, jeered etc. Yes, nazi clad fucks shouldn't be comfortable. But once you throw that punch, you've lost. And the ones wearing the nazi regalia want you to throw that punch. It's the same thing as brawling with ICE, in both cases you are acting exactly how the fascist wants, and arguably requires, you to act.
By throwing those punches, or encouraging others to, you are helping the fascists win.
the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
💀
can you point out where I called anyone a Nazi?
If you feel personally attacked by the statement, I have some bad news for you...
I believe I got perma banned for posting Luigi gifs and guillotines after the UHC guy got euthanized.
The real reason Reddit gave was something about using another account to avoid a ban ... but I only had one account. Reddit was just weird, had to be an AI thing.
I managed to gain one and I have no idea whether I was misunderstood or just managed to meet the worst admin ever.
Basically, it was the recent story about girl guides. Someone asked what the hell transphobes are thinking when pushing for stuff like this.
My reply was 'children are predators'. As in ascribing that thought, in a tongue-in-cheek manner, to transphobes. Banned.
I have no idea if they thought I was seriously suggesting that trans children, or indeed any children, are predators, or if transphobes are now a protected minority. It's the UK, it really could go either way.
But anyway, here I am in my new non-reddit home.
Were you permabanned from Reddit or just banned from a specific subreddit? Those are two entirely different things, and sometimes people don't seem to understand or don't care to admit it.
Sucks to be permabanned from the whole site over that comment if that's what happened, but hopefully you took that as an experience to learn and grow (and not just as a reason to reinforce your discontent with Reddit itself) so that you don't necessarily bring that same energy to other spaces.
Honestly, that's a problem for a lot of ex-Redditors in my strictly subjective opinion. They claim to hate the place, but then bring the same exact energy here. I'm fine with a diversity of opinion and antics, but if I wanted to interact with Redditor behavior, I'd just go to Reddit.
Anyway, I myself LOATHE having to use "/s" to denote when I'm being sarcastic or deploying a bit of mockery/parody. However, I recognize that my intent does not obligate others to abide, nor is my intent and its effect on others guaranteed to align. I would say in the context that you describe, I probably wouldn't make that kind of comment or if I did I would at least do the thing I hate so much and just use a "/s" or sPonGE CAsE, perhaps.
In your new non-reddit home, the bad Reddit-like moderator behavior is alive and thriving here as well. It's not all fairy farts and unicorn blow around here. You probably already knew that, but just in case, figured I'd give you a heads up.
I got permabanned from instances because I hurt a snowflake admins feelings by arguing against them.
shit made my day because I was still able to call them idiots, just not on their instance.
not just disagree, disagree SLIGHTLY YOU DIRTY FUCKERS WHY ARE YOU NOT MY POLITICAL MIRROR
Look if you losers just accept that I am actually right about everything and no one has any grounds to challenge my beliefs things will be much better for all of us /s
Most of my friends don’t share the exact beliefs I do in regards to pretty much anything, doesn’t mean we can’t get together and yell at each other about it over a few beers around the campfire.
Oh absolutely. Heck, a good number of my friends are conservative.
I think maybe a lot of the nuance and consideration doesn't translate well to strangers online, so instead of seeking to understand we flip to fighting and without the context of a good friendship, we don't really know how to navigate those arguments online.
(Also, we don't have that filter of "oh, just don't get into X with Janet, you know she'll start yelling" for folks. Sp double whammy.)
Whatever your side is, it's the wrong one.
I hate Trump but think democrats are the only party that are in a position to save us from him.
Thoughts?
I disagree with political parties entirely. We must unite and fight, but I guess we gotta start somewhere, and that may be with the Democrats.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
I think on the Left we're our own worst enemy. Our far Left folks want to reject everything when it's imperfect/centrist etc whereas thr Far Right seem fine working with government etc and end up advancing their aims.
Personally, I'm also not sure how widely embraced our more socialist tendencies would get us. In a pretty Left leaning city like NY, Mamdami ran pretty much as our wet dream candidate and still couldn't hit 50% of the votes. And I think that our inability to see that a majority of the country may not agree with us really skews our perceptions.
I always say that if leftists could ever learn the lesson "perfect is the enemy of good" then we could actually radically change the world.
In my more conspiratorial moments, I do wonder if part of the point of social media was to keep us infighting so hard on incredibly niche issues.
If I were rich and in charge, I would be on my knees thanking heavens that of all the things the Left and Right are fighting over, transgender sports is a bizzarely major issue instead of, yknow, almost anything else that would seriously change things.
With you 100%. The way niche (note I didn't say unimportant, keyboard warriors) issues are propped up as focal points in political discourse has all the markings of manipulated discourse, imo.
Right? In what rational universe is "some people got angry on twitter" a legit angle to a news story unless your point is to prop up aforementioned keyboard warriors.
I agree, but only because the media is so tightly controlled by the ruling class.
If a new media platform broke out that they did not have control over, and a reasonable left third party took control of that platform, and many people ran to it, basically if, you know, you could win the lottery twice while being struck by lightning and getting hit by a falling meteorite, then a third party could actually emerge and win.
But with them owning Twitter and Facebook and Reddit and Instagram and WhatsApp and every single news station on the planet, there's just no way to communicate what the world could be like to the people who would vote for the better world.
UK also has winner takes all elections, yet "third parties" have substantially more traction over there.
I don't think democrats are even all that interested in preventing fascism. Establishment liberals don't have a good track record of beating fascism and I don't think we should keep making the mistake of expecting them to do so.
They’re more interested than Jill Stein and get more votes the Rachelle Fruit so I’d say they can be worked with.
I guess I am just not expecting to defeat fascism through electoral politics. It didn't really work before and I don't see any reason for it to work now.
It didn’t work because we voted the dictator in.
Sure but fascism isn't just one dude. Them not getting elected doesn't end fascism. We already have fascist in our government. They're in our police force, military, local administrations, legislature, and judicial system. Many of them own significant portions of our national economy, some of them even have international capital. Fascists are willing to cheat, lie, and kill for power. You can't stop that with a single election or even a series of them. If you think that you can then you have vastly underestimated our enemy.
The nazis lost elections before they won them. They didn't go away after losing, they got stronger.
Fascists need to be identified and purged fron official positions, the financial assets of bourgeois fascists should be seized, and most importantly the material conditions (poverty mostly) that made fascism appealing to millions of people need to be resolved. I don't think democrats are willing to do this.
Biden and Obama were making life better while Trump is speedrunning everything you’re saying about everyone else.
I honestly don't understand how either of those people are relevant to what I said and idk what you mean by "everything you're saying about everyone else". I wasn't referring to any specific people or any actions those unspecified people are currently taking.
My comment was regarding the current level of fascist power, the inadequacy of elections to eliminate them as a threat, the historical effectiveness of elections in regard to the nazis, and actions that could be effective at stopping fascism.
Biden and Obama were democrats while Trump is a fascist.
I can understand it being confusing if you’re wondering how it’s relevant to what you’re saying instead try reading what I’m saying and you’ll see how it fits.
Are you genuinely implying that biden and obama not be fascists makes them inherently good and effective at stopping fascism? I read what you were saying and it didn't make any sense to me so I asked and I think it'd be cool if you explained things instead of adding obstacles to communication
Not being a fascist is much better than being one if you’re trying to stop it.
Sure but normally fascists seize power from liberals or have it handed to them so being liberals doesn't make them an inherently effective obstacle to fascism. I feel you are being purposefully obtuse and will be disengaging.
Fascists seize power from liberals because those are the two parties in the two party system.
If you don’t have an argument for that I understand why you’d disengage.
A friend of mine designed this for me to reflect my taste in politics. I've had them made into stickers 💚
the battle of underinformed takes! what's not to like?
Isn't that what the internet is for?
it is. at least it should.
Dangit, I love the emojis but we don't have a saluting one yet!
i blame capitalism for that.
Meh, I don't do politics as a joke or as a hobby. I do it because its serious shit that effects peoples lives. And I arrive at my conclusions based of solid evidence, and am willing to change my views to better fit existing evidence. So, that being said....
yeah, if you disagree with me majorly, you are instantly a piece of shit. I am always exclusively pro humanitarian and anti capitalist. If you are arguing against me, you are arguing against human rights and you are arguing for exploitation, and I will not and should not tolerate that. Dont be a piece of shit and i wont treat you you like one, my policies are what they are for a reason and if id seen a better policy then IT would be my policy instead.
Tl;dr Basically, we all have access to the internet. I am educated. You("some person", not actually you) are evidently not. Why would you come into a comment thread and knowingly start spreading false information about something you know nothing about?
Humans are born uninformed and the monkey part of our brains tells us that we are right and there is no deeper layer to "obvious" things. I'm just as mad when peoples default state is confidently incorrect but I try not to say anything mean, because hey maybe that was me at some point.
It's still you today, and will you be in the future.
It just find it hilarious how people take these absolutist stances on issues, as if they are God-like, when they have limited information on them. And if you present them with information that shows their view is limited, they just hate you for it.
The issue is people's egotistical need to feel superior/correct. And they will not give that up. What's interesting about actual experts, is they don't take that approach. They openly discuss the limits of their knowledge and capability... laymen do the exact opposite and emotionally insist that their lack of knowledge makes their understanding more honest... or something.
Hence people will read one comment you make, and make that totally determinate of your entire personality and belief system. Because, they KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE. Based on a sentence you randomly typed once on a website...
and will you be in the future.
I mean this with all kindness but the fact that nobody has banned you is probably the reason the fediverse won't catch on.
What's the point of avoiding corporate social media if the human powered kind is adopting their same tolerance for toxicity.
Politics is always the great divider, but on Reddit it was enough to get a full pile-on going to the point that the human was lost and the only thing that mattered was winning the point.
Here? Yeah you get pile-ons, but markedly less so, and it's easier to not take personally 10 people disagreeing with you instead of 100. Perhaps this will change with time as Lemmy gets more popular
Oooof, I'm going to hope that's based in general on the meme!
If that is based on past experience, happy to learn more etc. I generally try to act as a reasonably conscientious fedizen, and basically try to stay in my own lane (though my lane does include memes etc I make...)
Lol yes based on the meme!
Phew!
I mean yes, you're welcome to visit my home unless you're a hateful piece of shit.
You're welcome to visit the bar unless you come in acting like a belligerent asshole.
You're implying some contradiction as if this isn't how this has always worked.
A welcoming person does not welcome Nazis into a space where people are welcome.
My only problem are the authoritarian types, namely tankies and fascists. Anyone who are pro-democracy are okay in my book.
But as an anarchist, 'democracy' has a number of meanings in different contexts to me.
Do I believe a team of people with a common interest should vote on tactics and/or a spokesperson to represent themselves? Yes
Do I believe a country of millions of completely different people should vote on whose boot they're going to be under for the next several years? No
My problem isn't the choice, it's the idea that there should be a boot in the first place, but the result is the same. I'm anti-democratic in the sense most people are talking about when they invoke democracy.