AOC vows to block future US military aid to Israel, its Iron Dome and defense
2mon 16d ago by sh.itjust.works/u/HellsBelle in news from www.theguardian.com
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a US representative, said on Wednesday that she will oppose any future US military aid to Israel, including for defensive systems.
In a statement on social media, Ocasio-Cortez said that Israel was fully capable of funding “Iron Dome and other defensive systems”, and that “consistent with my voting record to date, I will not support Congress sending more taxpayer dollars and military aid to a government that consistently ignores international law and US law”.
Her remarks on Wednesday follow reports that she pledged to oppose any future military aid to Israel during a New York City Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) forum on Tuesday evening.
“Our allies who need our military aid must understand that we will provide it consistent with the Leahy amendment and the foreign assistance act”, Ocasio-Cortez added, referring to a law which prohibits the US from providing military support to army units that violate human rights.
According to City & State, which obtained a partial recording of the DSA forum, Ocasio-Cortez told members: “I have not once ever voted to authorize funding to Israel, and I will never,” adding that “the Israeli government should be able to finance their own weapons if they seek to arm themselves.”
Go further than that, claw back our tax money to pay for healthcare dammit
Give em a bill and charge interest every year.
If they don't pay, most of the global economy still runs thru NYC, if we sanction their leaders and oligarchs instead of random ass "settlers" who don't even have a bank account, we could apply real pressure for their government to pay.
Yep, let's start playing Hard Ball. Stop giving breaks to economic predators and parasites.
Israel does not owe the US for weapons, because they are gifts. The nominally loans are immediately forgiven by state dept.
Yeah but it is what the US says it is. We could just state otherwise, you owe us, fuck you pay us. Not going to happen as they have our politicians compromised, with the CIA's help it appears. How about some fucking court martials for helping foreign governments compromise our politicians? Death penalty.
forgiving a loan is a permanent contract. You can validly say that everyone who previously cancelled loans were traitorous scum, as a basis for conditions for future sales to Israel, and seizing assets of all "supposed Americans" of those who bribed the traitorous scum as restitution. But cancelled loans themselves are without legal restitution.
I prefer seizing the $10T of Zionazi agents and funding of Zionazi first rule over America to death penalties.
Idk what you are talking about. I said the US officials that helped compromise our citizens for a foreign country are traitors. You have a problem with that?
As far as forgiving loans, Israel wasn't loaned anything, we gave it to them, that's the whole point here. But yes, we have cancelled loans before, including in the Magna Carta
As far as forgiving loans, Israel wasn’t loaned anything, we gave it to them,
The contractual shenanigans of gifting weapons to Israel is that they are sold with a loan. The state department immediately forgives the loan.
the US officials that helped compromise our citizens for a foreign country are traitors.
I agree. I prefer seizing their and their donors wealth instead of death penalty.
Oh is it? Tell that to all the fucking student loans that were forgiven they went back on. No, it’s clearly not fucking permanent. So we are done here.
I love how you watch as potus does whatever the fuck he wants and still thinks “oh we have precedent for this” is something anyone should give one singular fuck about.
How about this: we are going to vote for the people that will claw back every fucking penny from that country we can. They fucking owe us.
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Better late than never, but the left coalition of the party could have done this 75,000 Palestinians ago.
accurate estimate range about 300000 Palestinians. or about 1/6th
Sombody guard her because Mosad already is planing to eliminate her.
Yeah I was about to say damn what a shame she was so young.
Israel should be disarmed.
One genocide (or several) doesn't make another one right...
"Nazi germany should be destroyed"
wow um so you just hate germans?
Israel is literally Germany in this example, cmon, I know you're not this stupid.
Right so why do you object to its destruction?
Destruction of a country? Gee I wonder. Almost like I said no genocide is ever good?
So, why are you pro killing people in Israel?
wanting a country gone =/= wanting its people gone
You understand the difference between genocide and dismantling a state?
State ≠ people
I have my doubts which the person above me meant.
They could have written state... But they haven't. "Destroy the state" isn't something you commonly say now, is it?
Im also not sure what they meant... I actually read it differently the first time... like clippy being a voice of western media, equating not handing arms to Israel with it's destruction. Just like they equate asking for the end of genocide with antisemitism.
Lemmy has some seriously sick fucks on it so I always have my guard up... They had plenty of opportunity to clarify, but haven't.
It would force them to negotiate diplomaticly and lead to much more peace in the middle east
Fuck yeah, hopefully AOC starts a fuck aid to Israel trend
“I have not once ever voted to authorize funding to Israel, and I will never,”
She has though: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2024128,https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023681, https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202428
It's a much better track record than pretty much anyone else but this article and post is a pretty blatant attempt at reputation laundering.
Do y'all really fall for this so easily?
Which one of these you linked is providing funding to Israel?
In order:
H.R.5917
This bill extends the authority of the President to impose sanctions on foreign persons using human shields through 2030 and requires the President to impose such sanctions on each foreign person determined to be a member of Palestine Islamic Jihad and orders, controls, or otherwise directs the use of human shields. Currently, such sanctions are (1) required for users of human shields who are members of Hamas or Hezbollah or supporters of those groups, and (2) authorized for other users of human shields.
The President must also determine if a person named in certain congressional requests meets the criteria for such sanctions and report on whether the President intends to impose sanctions on that person.
Additionally, the Department of Defense must report to Congress on the implications of the use of human shields by Hamas, Hezbollah, and Palestine Islamic Jihad.
H.R.5961
This bill requires the President to impose property-blocking sanctions on foreign financial institutions and international financial institutions that process, participate in, or facilitate a transaction involving certain Iranian funds (namely, the approximately $6 billion of Iranian funds that the Biden administration permitted to be transferred from restricted accounts in South Korea to restricted accounts in Qatar to facilitate the release of five U.S. citizens detained in Iran).
H.R.6679
This bill imposes immigration-related penalties on certain non-U.S. nationals (aliens under federal law) who are involved with terrorism or attacks against Israel.
Under this bill, members of Palestinian Islamic Jihad or Hamas or who participated in or otherwise facilitated the October 7, 2023, attacks on Israel may not be admitted into the United States.
The bill also expands an existing admissions bar against officers, representatives, and spokespersons of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Under this bill, all PLO members are barred from admission into the United States.
The bill also prohibits any non-U.S. national who participated in or otherwise facilitated the October 7, 2023, attacks from seeking any immigration-related relief or protections, including (1) protection from being deported to a country where the individual's life or freedom would be threatened, or (2) asylum in the United States.
Summaries are generally misleading.
Full text for H.R.5917: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/5917/textwhere it outlines the modifications to public law 115-348 which according to Sec. 3.d authorizes usage of the IEEPA to enforce sanctions.
Israel then directly receives defense spending to enforce those sanctions as well as indirectly being funded via any seized assets that are found in violation of those sanctions as "reperations". Here's an example of a $500Mil funding source.
H.R.5961 uses essentially the same mechanism but targets Iran specifically redirecting a large chunk of the $6B mentioned towards Israel.
You are correct that H.R.6679 isn't about funding, but I still felt it was important to include.
Thank you!
Thank you!
And she even called MTG antisemitic for it
Yeah that was really disappointing
Support and protect this person and leaders like them. Fight for them.
I want to VOTE for her! Oh wait, I already do! Now want to vote for her for Senate (don't let the door clobber you in the ass on the way out Schmuckie-boy!), and then President!
I mean... I would vote for her (to be POTUS) too, since I'm very much a democratic socialist. Unfortunately her chances of actually being the Democrat nominee are basically zero. And even if she did get that far, she would lose in the same way Kamala and Hillary did. Fence sitters and centrists seem incapable of voting for a woman. 🤷♂️
I would be elated to be proven wrong! Please, Universe! Prove me wrong on this!
Both were also victims of various forms of election manipulation and fraud, although Hillary's campaign was especially godawful.
USA, for some reason, seems to only prefer conservative fossils as POTUS.
Her continued political career depended on clearing that up.
Problem is all of us on the left will not forget her past record and her choices time and time again to side with the status quo, Israel, and the imperialist, capitalist Democratic Party.
i agree. she has been a let down the past few years. she's mucher better than most liberals, but she still has bent the knee to Israel in the past when her voice mattered
She was going to vote against it originally. Then supposedly Pelosi convinced her to change her vote. So she voted present.
It's a difficult spot to be in, given that much of her support relies on the zionists in New York like Schumer, etc in her party... Donors too...
Im in her district. She doenst need that support. She is perfectly safe here.
Yeah it must be SOOO difficult to sacrifice tens of thousands of innocent civilians so that she can stay in power and not make her colleagues uncomfortable. Give me a break. She's an evil Zio neolib like the rest of the Democratic Party. Crocodile tears
Oh, okay lol
She’s an evil Zio neolib like the rest of the Democratic Party. Crocodile tears
That's literally MAGA speak with different slurs, lol
Call it what you want but it’s still the truth 
How about any aid at all? That country needs a lot of things, democracy, ethics, morals, but it does not need aid for anything
Shoulda done that years ago. We wouldn’t be in this predicament today had that been done. She offered criticism of Israel, but when push came to shove she didn’t rock the boat when voting time came and she changed her vote away from “no” to fund Israel’s Iron Dome.
Hate on the politicians not moving, not on those moving too slow for your liking. This shit is why you have Trumpaloompa now.
slow to improve is still an infinity larger improvement than... nearly every other party official, really
Hate both
Washington is literally occupied by Israeli assets. This should absolutely be the norm but it’s not so we need to keep pressing. If it were up to me we’d start arresting Israeli backed politicians for treason but as it is were in hell so I’ll give credit where credit is due
My favorite Democrat, if only she was the norm.
Come to think of it, she's the only Democrat who I don't find infuriating... the last time I researched one (Maxine Waters) I was revolted
Elizabeth Warren also seems to be speaking sense in a group of nonsensical liberals from what I've seen
I would vote for her over Hillary Clinton certainly, or Harris.
Or Biden for that matter, he was embarrassing, too
Those are establishment candidates. Newsom is the establishment pick. The DNC will sabotage AOC for sure
AOC is not suicidal
would be nice to do palestinian aid and recognize its not a forgone conclusion that it be annexed and if we for some reason do give aid lets at least limit weaponry we might give them and hey lets work to keep aid channels open to palestine. you know. all the stuff we were doing until 2025.
all the stuff we were doing until 2025.
Literally what? This is all stuff Democrats (including AOC herself) were flamed for not doing until 2025.
nope they were flamed for not doing more. we had limits on weapons and getting aid to isreal was a fight even though it got through. there was aid to plestine. we friggen made a dock to get around israel blockading areas. peoples memories are either miniscule or they edit them as it goes by.
This is historical revisionism.
we had limits on weapons
Literally one paused shipment. Big fucking deal.
getting aid to isreal was a fight even though it got through
The overwhelming majority regularly voting yes is not my idea of a fight.
there was aid to plestine.
There was aid during Trump's term too. In both cases it was Israel dictating how much aid got through.
we friggen made a dock to get around israel blockading areas
A useless dock that was criticized for being useless the moment it was announcement and eventually was used by the IDF.
its not revisionist. the limits where on types and size of weapons. your reply shows it exactly. it was not good enough so lets just choose worse. before trump we were trying but now its just israel calling the shots. we friggin attacked iran. jeez just a bit after he took office the plans for the west bank as a vacation destination were thrown up. I just don't get folks that can't tell the difference between better and worse.
the limits where on types and size of weapons.
There were no limits other than a pause on one shipment of 2000 pound bombs. That is almost literally nothing.
before trump we were trying
Your thoughts and prayers don't matter to the Palestinians Israel was starving to death.
Israel was always calling the shots with regards to Palestine; Trump is just more blatant about it. He's also worse on Iran, but that's a completely different conversation.
it was not good enough so lets just choose worse
That doesn't have fucking anything with what we're talking about. You made a claim about Democrats; you don't get to deflect by talking about Republicans.
its completely what we are talking about. perfect being the enemy of good. The use of pause is pretty disengenous. yes it was paused until 2025 when trump took office which is what stopped the pause. your whole middle section again shows you can't tell the difference between better and worse. I would never want you "working" to help me. this reminds me so much of obama care. that half a loaf has made things a bit better for me than the no loaf some people seem to prefer. don't get me wrong I want the whole loaf but refusing to let anyone get the half to make a moral stand is not helping them.
Based
meanwhile tankies are calling her (and me) a Zionist for saying the Iron Dome is not just used for protecting military assets and has protected civilians before 🙄
that's right folks, you're a Zionist if your anti-Zionism doesn't ignore facts enough, I guess 🤷♀️
The problem is protection in this case also means protection from the consequences of their actions. As shit as it may sound there's an active incentive to not causing problems when getting a city block leveled is a potential risk, the same thing can be said for the US which is protected by its relative remoteness from its foes.
So the Iron Dome isn't just a defensive measure, it's an emboldening one since it protects Israel from its consequences.
yes, I agree with this point - maybe not to the point of saying we should dismantle the Iron Dome from protecting civilians, but you are right that the Iron Dome acts as a kind of enabler - providing psychological safety to Israelis that undermines political will to end and avoid conflict.
But I'm not sure the civilians are necessarily the best targets in the first place - there have been massive protests against the current government, and I'm not sure we should really consider Israel a particularly democratic state.
Also, Israel has been genocidal for many decades now, including through decades under which many Israelis had to take cover under bomb shelters, so the Iron Dome is probably not the most relevant factor in whether Israel continues on its path.
I feel that the distinction between then and now is that the first generation of Israelis generally did have a reason to grit it out, a lot of them went through far worse than some bombing raids. But now only the youngest of them remain and even then they're ancient, the majority of modern Israelis would most likely not like having to stick it out in a bunker due to their government being assholes.
But I'll also admit my bias that I don't think Israel should exist, the Arabs should've been allowed to level it decades ago. So my overall prevailing opinion on Israel is a vague sense of fuck it who cares blockade them and let em rot. So my opinion on any interaction with them is pretty much tainted by that constantly, meaning I'd only approve of the Iron Dome if they completely dearmed in totality and even then I may not care.
Point is I don't think the Israelis should be traded with let alone given aid.
I agree the current state of Israel is illegal and shouldn't exist, but political positions like this are separate from my view that most civilians are just normal folks and shouldn't bear the primary burden - generally wars should be fought targeting military targets, not targeting civilians. I understand that's a bit complicated when the conflict is asymmetric and one side is not a military as much as a guerilla resistance, their tactics do rely more on using terror to pressure political solutions in their favor.
But yeah, I agree with not funding Israel ✅ The US doesn't have a special obligation to fund Israel, even if they have been a useful "attack dog" in the Middle East for us, I don't think US intervention in pretty much most cases is helpful - the US is a big part of why Israel gets away with their crimes and is an unchecked genocidal, racist state.
The thing is that the Israelis don't give a fuck about civilians and I am a firm believer in the golden rule even when it does bite me in the ass. So if they don't give a fuck then neither should we, they want to do terroristic bombing campaigns then fine their civilians are valid now as well. You reap what you sow and all that.
But yeah we seem to agree at like 90 percent or so, it's just where we draw the line and what we consider to be morally acceptable. You value civilians and I refuse to due to Israel not valuing them, though I would exterminate every settler community with the vigor of the US army in Vietnam but that's more of a fuck them in particular thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_hostage_deal_protests
I was talking about the massive protests against the gov't handling of the post-October "war" in favor of a ceasefire and accepting a hostage deal
A key part of the protest movement, [Hostages and Missing Families Forum's] demands are;
- Immediate release of all hostages, since their holding is contrary to international law and defined as a war crime and a crime against humanity.
- Immediate opening of a humanitarian corridor to supply medicines and necessary equipment to the chronically ill and injured and examination of all hostages by a doctor.
- Intervention and assistance of the leaders of the neighboring countries in favor of the immediate release of the kidnapped hostages.
right, these protests happened in the past:
On 1 September 2024, following the discovery of six hostages killed in the Gaza Strip, protest organizations declared a nationwide strike and day of demonstrations, with more than 500,000 people participating across Israel and abroad to demand a hostage deal.
A subsequent strike was announced on 17 August 2025, drawing hundreds of thousands of demonstrators.
I don't know what to tell you, being furious with the government and calling for a ceasefire and opening humanitarian corridors doesn't strike me as a citizenry that deserves to be bombed to death. I'm not even sure I feel fully comfortable with the Dresden Fire Bombs, not because I'm sympathetic to Nazism, but because I think civilian targets are not morally defensible targets.
Civilians don't have to be prefect for me to think they shouldn't be military targets.
yeah, I do tend to think overall probably a majority of Israeli citizens have problematic views (racism, defending their colonialism, supportive of Israel's war crimes and genocide, etc.) - I just also tend to think civilians are not morally defensible targets and I'm not too keen on defending targeting civilians (even when they're Nazis, as I mentioned earlier).
Osama bin Laden used this kind of logic - that the US is a democracy, and thus civilians are valid targets because unlike in countries where people don't have a choice, the idea is that the government does what the people choose for it to do. And you could make similar claims about US citizens being racist, defending genocide, etc. (after all, we fund, encourage, and enable Israel) ... yet this reasoning still seems wrong to me, esp. when it's a small minority of the US population that ultimately chose the representatives who run the government (and when satisfaction by voters with their representatives is so low, even hitting historic lows).
So, I don't know - this reasoning just doesn't feel entirely right to me, and it's concerning when it's being used to justify indiscriminate bombing of children, women, the elderly, etc.
By definition, a Zionist is anyone who supports the development and protection of a Jewish nation in Occupied Palestine at the expense of Palestinian lives, land, and sovereignty. Any degree of that is Zionism. You are not an anti-Zionist if you support the development and protection of a Jewish nation on stolen, Palestinian land. Anti-Zionism isn't a big tent kind of club. AOC, Mamdani, Bernie, and anyone else who supports the continued colonization of Occupied Palestine are Zionists.
"my people are safe from your bombs while your people die from my bombs"
Lay off defending this bullshit right now bro.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a US representative, said on Wednesday that she will oppose any future US military aid to Israel, including for defensive systems.
I'm an anti-Zionist, I'm going to continue defending not funding Israel, mostly because they are an illegal occupation with decades of history violating international laws and because they are genocidal and actively promoting racist and illegal settler-colonialism.
So no, I'm not going to stop defending my anti-Zionism, thank you.
You are talking up the iron dome which is what we are talking about and you fucking know it.
in what sense am I "talking up" the Iron Dome? the closest thing to this is that I don't agree with the tankie dogma that the Iron Dome only protects military assets ... the Iron Dome clearly protects Israeli citizens as well, and that fact doesn't necessarily change much - in fact, I also criticized the Iron Dome's role in protecting citizens as a kind of "enabler", the safety it provides undermines political will to end and avoid conflicts (not that I want civilians to be treated as valid targets, but the Iron Dome does have problematic consequences this way).
If you don't want to be thoughtful or read my comments in good faith, and you're primed to conclude I'm defending Israel regardless, I don't really care - you don't have to read my comments, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything and I don't need to convince you of my anti-Zionism; I'm happy to block you and move on with my life.
that's fair enough based on just that one comment (maybe I'm just angry from previous interactions in which I have been accused of being a Zionist, banned, and then having what I felt was a reasonable examination of the facts deleted - not been the comfiest day for me)
maybe I just need to step away, it's been a bad mental health day for me anyway
Thoughtful, ha ha. I have plenty of thoughts I can assure you, and Israel being protected from retribution from their abuses of the others is one of them. Israel is the Devil. Their population is fucked in the head, and as such, is the devil incarnate, metaphorically speaking. Literally they are Nazis.
last time i posted statistical facts about Israel from wikipedia my comments got removed from being pro-Zionist and antisemitic.
i love it.
Seems you'll be waiting a long time for those facts to show up. :/
Good for you. :)
"facts"
I'll hold my breath.
I can see them spending money now to convince morons not to support her.
She’s got my vote for that.
Good for her.
This is a play on some of computer brand logo (I think) that I can't remember. Someone please tell me what this is.
They're an actual company. They make monitors.
Thank you
AOC suddenly jumping out a window in 1,2,3...
Good!
Her path to getting here was stupid, allowing themselves to get outflanked by MTG was utterly unforced, and her response was worse.
Its great she's sharpening this point, but how you get to where you end up matters for what amounts to the best progressive hope for 2028 (at least for now). It showed, frankly, a very clumsy ability to navigate politics, ultimately leaving her pissing off both the anti-zionists and the pro-genocide caucuses. Its not a feather in her cap for demonstrating a great ability to navigate issues or lead caucuses.
And that is my primary concern with AOC. She's one of the best communicators the left has. But she is consistently not a leader on the most important issues we have, and is far too calculating. Genuinely, she reminds me of Pelosi in this manner.
I seriously doubt AOC was ever outflanked by MTG, and frankly I have no idea what you mean by that?
Doing a google search "marjorie tayler greene outflank democrats" turns up nothing.
If you are referring to MTG talking sense about the Epstein files an no to the Iran war and distancing herself from MAGA, how the fuck do you Imagine AOC could do anything about that?
I seriously doubt AOC was ever outflanked by MTG
Its not something you get to doubt. Its just a thing that happened. I guess you don't follow politics.
and frankly I have no idea what you mean by that?
So you don't know what a word/ concept means, and your position on the matter starts by doubting the thing exists. Telling.
Doing a google search “marjorie tayler greene outflank democrats” turns up nothing.
I provided a link. Click it. Its not even text, you can just listen.
I guess you mean because MTG was anti-Israel first? Not because of the genocide, but because she’s a white supremacist anti-Semite? Yay MTG
I honestly don't care why our representatives do what they do, I care about the material impact of the legislation they pass.
Example: If a Quiverfull MAGA crazy decides we need to fund childcare because women are just baby machines and childcare means they have more utilities to fight the "white genocide". Fine. It's fucking gross but let's get childcare in place and move to the next issue. All we have to do is make sure it applies to everyone equally.
This is how you get stuff done.
The difference is I'm not looking to someone like MTG to lead, so the fact that her abhorrent methodology arrived at the correct outcome is a canary in the coal mine compared to AOC who I am looking to lead based on moral convictions to fight difficult fights when needed.
Well she had her come-to-white-Jesus moment at the same time as she was resigning, so she’s not passing any legislation for you
Why are you talking at me like I support her?
True horseshoe conisours.
Stop trying to make fetch happen
Hey I found the blueMaggot
I can't speak for the person you are replying to, but I know that I'm constantly critical of the Democratic party. I get called "BlueMAGA" for saying people are stupid for sitting out in 2024 instead of voting for Kamala. It's bullshit.
It's a thought-terminating cliche. It doesn't have any actual meaning, so they just use it as a cudgel to end discussion whenever anyone pushes back against their vapid bullshit.
Okay that's just a cope. MTG was pro-Israel until 2025 while also being a raging antisemite; tying her current anti-Israel position to her antisemitism rather than political opportunism is, as I said, a cope to distract from AOC's failure to do the same.
AOC included, but overall this criticism best applies to the Democratic party. In the game of politics, despite of what we know about MTG, yes, she outflanked the Democratic party on the genocidal Israel issue.
jfc, like, click the fucking link. Just click the fucking link. Its queued to the time stamp you need to be reminded of what happened regarding these votes. Its right fucking there. Just click it.
I can't help people not knowing or remember what happened during house debates in 2021. I'm sorry if your memory isn't good enough to remember what happened in the house four years ago. She switched her vote from No to Present in a 2021 package for funding Israel's Iron Dome. She also voted for the resolution which redefined criticism of Israel as anti-antisemitism. Even later she voted against an amendment (led by MTG) to defund Israels Iron Dome. That last one specifically was her getting outflanked by MTG, because later, AOC goes on to vote against the entire bill.
This is how AOC justified it at the time:
This ends up being a completely unforced error since she went on to vote against the entire bill. Instead of taking a strong stance and being on the right side of an issue out the gate, she comes out as calculating, both sides, and then ultimately votes against when it wouldn't stop it anyways.
Ilhan Omar, Rashida Talib, Summer lee: They didn't make those mistakes. AOC is pivoting, which is good. AOC was not good in acting as part of a unified front against the funding of a zionist genocide.
That's easy to do when you're full of shit
Feel free to explain how
So are Republicans. So why is AOC responsible for all Dems, but MTG isn't responsible for all Republicans?
No one said shit about who was better between Republicans and Democrats.
I thought the path there mattered, but I guess not when it's your girl MTG. Who gives a shit what someone that believes nothing says? Oh wiw a shit person said something you like to hear. They'll never actually vote for it or try to enact it, but hey you got to hear a comforting lie.
Could you try giving me something other than a nothing answer?
No, it’s not the path that matters, just the timing!
/s
You think the “outflanking” being heralded is spatial?
I can't answer you so I'll just call you sexist instead. Cool.
Oh for fuck sake. So now we've got a bunch of people simultaneously talking down AOC for failing a purity test, and praising MTG? The fuck is wrong with you people?
Its just a thing that happened.
This is so typically you, zero explanation of what you mean, just more bullshit.
So you don’t know what a word/ concept means,
WTF? How was AOC flanked by MTG? That's not a concept. You are absolutely useless to debate, it always leads nowhere with you.
I provided a link. Click it. Its not even text, you can just listen.
This is outright false, there is no link in the post I responded to, also who the fuck would want to listen to an audio link for a simple point? A point you never care to substantiate, apart from some broad statement, that to me seems absolutely false and moronic.
The link is further up. Here it is again: https://youtu.be/pfECtut0STg?t=250
A point you never care to substantiate, apart from some broad statement,
I've done it no fewer than 4 times in this thread. Dig around. AOC's own words validates my claim. Its a good thing she's changed, which is what this article was about, but she had a wrong position to begin with. And yes, MTG did outflank her on this, which is a strike against AOC's ability to read the room. At the time, it came across as calculating and conniving. Even more strongly now.
Its a good thing AOC pivoted to this stance, but its a good pivot, if late and show poor political instincts.
This has zero bearing on your claim that MTG outflanked democrats and AOC, it's like you are switching to a completely different debate.
Yes I agree AOC was late in realizing how bad Israel is, and has been for a long time, like in decades. But at least she and other Democrats are beginning to wake up.
Also to the defense of AOC, what she supported was a defensive system.
Also to the defense of AOC, what she supported was a defensive system.
You shouldn't be defending this act of hers. She was wrong when she supported it, and defending her is wrong now. If you are commenting or engaging in politics just to be a standard bearer or water carrier, you should disengage from the process because you do real damage in doing so.
claim that MTG outflanked democrats and AOC, it’s like you are switching to a completely different debate.
No, it doesn't, because its extremely relevant to AOC's ability to form and execute on a political calculus. AOC getting outflanked by MTG isn't up for debate, its just a thing that happened. Its quite literally the article we're reading, that AOC has now adopted the stance that MTG outflanked her with, the unilateral disarmament of Israel. AOC shouldn't have allowed MTG to get there first; it speaks to AOC's questionable political instincts. If AOC is gunning for the top slot, she needs to get to the right position first, not later than someone like MTG.
It seems the blueMAGA are really hating this one. God it's been a while since I used this word.
This is the first time I've seen the phrase blueMAGA. I can imagine what it means and I'm curious which (democratic) politicians most fit the bill, in yours and others opinions.
So would Bernie Sanders and AOC be considered "liberals" or is there a better term?
Bernie Sanders and AOC
Neither Bernie or AOC are liberals. Both are explicitly either Democratic Socialist or progressive.
It can't apply to Democratic politicians, because the phrase refers to someone who blindly supports the Dem establishment/Democratic politicians in general much like MAGA Republicans blindly support Trump (that's what the MAGA part is about). If a Democratic politician blindly supported the establishment, they'd just be a member of the establishment.
It's not a real thing.
I guess its time I bring this one back:
BlueMAGA considers it a war-crime to be critical of Democrats, even if you support them.
"Vote blue no matter who" folks would earnestly argue in favor of voting for Hitler (D) over Hitler (R). I can't wait to be lectured in 2040 about how it's better to let trans people rot in prison than it is to let them be sent to death camps and that "you can't always get what you want" when I say I don't want trans people harmed at all
She is definitely not strong on foreign policy, this much was apparent when she spoke on complex issues at the Munich Security Conference and struggled to be fully coherent.
But there's still time for her to hone it. What was her path to getting here?
She's trying to create a middle path here where one side is genocide. It's pretty disconcerting overall but Israel is the last great Western colonial settler project and colonialism is prosperity / glory to the West and genocide / displacement to the Global South (or human majority).
Thankfully there are many here that are against it but clearly she feels that a centrist approach will be more expedient for her political aspirations.
She’s trying to create a middle path here where one side is genocide.
How is refusing further involvement with Israel a middle ground? She is absolutely saying NO to Israel.
It's true; she did vote last year, and openly stated, that she for funding Israel's defense, and received a lot of backlash and criticism for it. Thankfully she's started to take the right response to the issue now, but it was super poorly handled at the time because she doubled down not realizing that's about as good being open to funding the defense for Nazi Germany.
I like AOC, and think she's a great fit for the senate, but I often criticise her political instincts at this point in her career.
Something as serious as defending taiwan against the second economic and military power china is not something you can talk about without days of reflection. I find ridiculous to be so hard on her for that specific question
But there's still time for her to hone it.
Their problem isn't with her position per se, but with how she chooses her position. Trying to create a middle path where one side is insert evil thing is too common with AOC, is (how I interpreted) the point.
Exactly. Its the calculating. I find it extremely reminiscent of how Pelosi did buisness.
But there’s still time for her to hone it. What was her path to getting here?
Oh I'm specifically talking about the MTG proposal, and how AOC instead of leading on the issue, got outflanked by MTG, then voted present (basically "supportive" of defensive weapons, because she didn't vote in favor of the MTG proposal, interpreted as acting in favor of Israel), then ultimately voting against the full bill.
Basically, she hit all the wrong beats in all the wrong order. Mike breaks it down in greater detail here.
Among the pack, AOC should have been leading Rashida and Omar. Instead AOC got outflanked on the left during the debate phase, to ultimately vote against the resolution. It just shows an inability to read the moment, an inability to lead, and a kind of calculating nature that I think many Americans, truly can-not-stand. Its that Obama/ Clintonian/ Pelosi/ Schumber type of calculating, where instead of doing the morally right thing, even if unpopular, is an afterthought.
It's like you freak play "fantasy football" with this shit. Is this what activism looks like? Did you update your rankings after this new article?
“fantasy football” with this shit.
It only looks that way to the utterly politically illiterate.
Did you update your rankings after this new article?
Yes. AOC has corrected for a mistake she made in the past. It doesn't make up for how she made the mistake, but it does show she is willing to correct/ is responsive to critisism, both of which are important qualities in a Democratic party Presidential hopeful. She ticked up a bit because she showed the ability to change (not because of the article).
And if you don't like politics or news.. How about just stfu and go cruise other stuff on lemmy? You aren't obligated to read every horse race article/ political beat article if its not interesting to you and not something you follow or try to understand. You dont' have to have an opinion here.
You’re going to vote for Tucker Carlson for president someday.
No, I voted against him while you threw your vote away. Everything that is happening now is your fault.
RemindMe! 31 months
RemindMe! 79 months
If you didn't advocate for a better candidate or for the candidate to adopt better positions, you did the work to get Trump elected.
That’s a big “if” that you don’t know the answer to.
What was your rationale for not voting for Harris on Nov. 5? To teach us all a lesson?
Did you advocate for a better candidate or for the candidate to take a better position? If so, please show the class.
You have no idea what I did or didn't do. But even a cursory view of your comment history shows that you are an avowed blue-Maga zionist, who worked tirelessly to ensure the DNC remained pro-israel.
The state of the country: Its your fault and its how all of history will remember you. You are why Trump won, because you wouldnt demand better. The genocide in Israel the the US funded, Kids in Cages, Totalitarian police states: You are completely fine with all of that as long as the Blue team is winning.
And thats the difference. I oppose those things regardless of which team is promoting them. And this is written at this point. The whole world knows you for what you are now and your side lost any semblance of control of the narrative when your masks slipped in 2024. Your just a fascist in a blue hat.
I don’t know about modlogs. But I do know that if people like me are being labeled “zionist”, then the term has lost as much meaning as “antisemitic” at this point.
Its in the side bar. If you are on desktop its a blue button labeled "Modlog".
Thanks. Yeah I got myself banned from all the tankie communities lol
I mean, you being a fascist apologist, I hope you are banned from far more than just tankie communities.
I’m not and I haven’t been. Go tattle some more.
Go tattle some more.
Who am I tattling to fascist? I'm taking your words and categorizing them based on the things you say.
Calling me a fascist doesn’t make me one. Your accelerationism is what brought us fascism. You’re clearly ashamed of this and you lash out at anyone who reminds you.
I told any one who would listen that Biden needed to be replaced/ not be the candidate in 2023. BlueMAGA insisted he be the candidate. All the polling, all the data said that we were going to lose the election in 24 with Biden as candidate. BlueMAGA refused to let go until it was practically too late, but the candidates brains had already melted out of their ears on a debate stage.
Did you call for Biden to step down as nominee from 23-24? Can you show me some examples of you making this argument?
Because otherwise I would have to assume you supported them as candidate, in which case, you are solely to blame for the outcome we received. This all could have been avoided if Biden would have made the correct decision to not run in 23.
Well the DNC suing only in swing states to keep visible candidates of the ballots also influenced the election. They were on the ballot* in my solidly blood colored state.
I see now. Yeah anyone who sees that will see it was hexbear and know what’s up
Please stop stalking me
US is demanding every last patriot missile for Israel from all other colonies in the world. Trump promised to deplete even more weapons for Gazafication of Iran before handing Iran with regional control over global economy.
There's a $200B secret pending request that was drafted 2 weeks ago, that is likely to be even higher when it is ever presented to congress, for rebuilding. But, the greater destruction Trump does until leaving, the more desperate for US to bankrupt itself fiscally, in order to maintain bankrupting hegemony over the world. Nevermind Iran asking for war reparations for peace, the colonies could ask for war reparations for economic damage from operation epic fuckup.
Not funding $500B US hegemony bill (with Israel getting a large chunk) will be presented as America hating. It's AOC that is reason for America's collapse, not operation epic fuckup.
Only after Ana Kasparian called Lyin' Zion AOC out on her lies on twitter. And love how she is bringing up the Leahy amendment now when she was fucking ride or die for Biden and Kamala despite the fact that they violated the Leahy amendment AND other US laws AND international law🙄 She's a neolib Zio grifter whose sole purpose is to put a cap on leftward movement in the Democratic Party and their base🤮
I of course wish AOC would go further and she's not perfect, but I won't let perfect be the enemy of the good in this situation.
It's good that she's saying this.
If she backs it up with actions maybe. But words are empty and it’s too little too late. Her actions up until now have supported the occupying Zionist entity and its genocide. It’s hard for me and a lot of anti-Zionists to take her seriously when it is very obviously politically expedient for her to say this at this moment (especially right after Ana Kasparian called her out on twitter for her support of Israel). She’s still an opportunist that is part of an imperialist, Zionist party that is complicit in the murder of countless civilians across the globe, and, worst of all, doesn’t seem to understand that. You say “perfect is the enemy of the good” but what good is this for Gaza now when it is decimated and hundreds of thousands have been slaughtered, many still buried under the rubble?
If their plan is to block future US military aid to israel why are they running for a party that vowed to give israel whatever it needs?
Because the reality right now is our system is fundamentally broken, and running as an independent is political suicide due to how the platform works and how people who don't pay attention to politics tend to vote.
I'm definitely an idealist, but over the last few years have to admit that reality doesn't match what if love to see and we have to let individuals in positions to push change work from within the system sometimes.
If a "good" guy running for republicans were to show up everyone would still give him shit for being a member of the red party, the same should apply for the democrats party.
Political suicide doesn't mean shit, you are not going to die running as an independent at worst you are not getting featured in mainstream medias because these are centralized and rigged and only talk and give exposure to certain politicians.
Aoc keep using twitter and doesn't have a mastodon account, to me it looks like this person doesn't have any intention to change the system and it's actually benefiting from it.
If lemmy devs had used the "political suicide" logic they would be working at reddit trying to make it less evil and you wouldn't be here.
Because there is a deep divide in the party. The voters are turning on Israel in massive numbers. The leadership has not changed position.
The solution is new leadership, like AOC, that reflects the will of the voters. That's how democracy is supposed to work, in theory.
The alternative is doubling down for Israel and further fracturing the Democratic base. I'm not voting for Gavin Newsom or Kamala Harris or any other pro-genocide candidate in 2028, "lesser of two evils" be damned.
As a member of the democratic party they run under the leadership of the democrat party.
AOC tends to submit to party politics, but it's important to understand that you don't need to do that to run under a party's name. Parties in America don't get to control their membership and there's on paper at least no mechanism to enforce intraparty compliance. It's more accurate to say that she runs as a Democrat than that she runs for Democrats.
AOC is a member of the democrats, she's not independent, she runs for democrats.
I have not once ever voted to authorize funding to Israel, and I will never
Uh... It's nice that she's finally gotten the memo, but is she gaslighting us?
Uh… It’s nice that she’s finally gotten the memo, but is she gaslighting us?
The downvoters in this thread do not live in reality.
So to clarify, her main viewpoint is essentially "I voted against reducing these munitions deals with Israel, because these munitions are intended for defensive purpose?"
Edit: Thank the both of you, and anyone else who feels willing to contribute, for providing the explaination.
Basically yes, because AOC accepted the framing that there is such a thing as defensive weapons funding. The rest of her cohort, Talib, Omar, Lee, others, did not make this same mistake.
The article this thread is associated with, is AOC's pivot on this issue: AOC no longer accepts the framing that weapons funding can be defensive.
It needs to be clear: AOC no longer supports the position in the above tweet. AOC recognized that her position in 2025 regarding defensive weapons was wrong.
I took it as "I voted against a bill that would cut off defensive munitions funding but not offensive munitions funding."
I forget what this whole bill/amendment was, but defensive protection of civilians, or the illusion thereof, gives genocidal impunity. If Israel had to pay for some portion of "weapons" given to them then that is less support for Israel which has traditionally received full gifted aid.
When you fund body armour and masks for ICE, you empower them to murder traffic that is too slow to clear. (renee good)
All funding for zionazi Israel is used for genocide. The funding of water for Israel is support for genocide. Republicans say that reimbursing medicare expenses of hospitals in California promoted illegal immigration, even though it is a contractual reimbursement, because if California was forced to repay hospitals, it would have less money somehow to support immigrants.
All funding for zionazi Israel is used for genocide. The funding of water for Israel is support for genocide.
Exactly. And in 2021, AOC thought she could have it both ways, and got heat from the anti-zionists on this matter. In 2025, she got her ankles broken by MTG on the issue. Truly an unforced error on her part and not one she should have been making in the first place when Omar, Talib, Lee, others, weren't making the same mistakes. She should have asked her colleagues to educate her.
Now she's getting on the right side of things. Great. But it doesn't speak well to her instincts to be johnny-come-lately to something she should have been a leader on (if she aspires to Senate or Pres).
in general she's not well versed on international issues. her core guiding pricipals are good, but she frequetly misses the forest for the trees
is she gaslighting us?
Yes: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2024128,https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023681, https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202428