Punish the Democrats, she says
2mon 14d ago by discuss.online/u/VetOfTheSeas in leopardsatemyface from discuss.online
OP, per Rule 4, for accessibility reasons, an image of text must either have alt text or a transcript in the post body.
Edit: Counting this as a warning for future posts, OP, but since you might not be here to address this, a transcript in a comment as a lesser substitute:
Bushra Shaikh (@Bushra1Shaikh): How TF did Americans vote the clown in, not once but TWICE.
Readers added context
This creator posted on Election Day 2024: "Punish the democrats for their passive response to the genocide in Palestine. If there ever was a party who should have stood firmly against it, we would've assumed the Dems. They proved otherwise. F Kamala Harris. Hope she loses.” [truncated URL to the post here]
I remember arguing for days, in 2024, that the whole "Democrats are bad because Palestine" thing was clearly a psyop by Russian bots trying to mess with the election. I really need to improve my persuasion skills. Like by a lot.
Pretty sure Democrats doing nothing to stop the genocide in gaza was a factor to their detriment in the election, bots aside
Even knowing that Trump was going to actively help Bibi? That's the thing I didn't understand: sure, the Democrats were not doing much to stop the slaughter, but from the previous Trump administration we knew Trump was going to actively help.
Ok, but you see how massively demoralizing this conversation is, right?
Making logical points weighing up two distinct yet similar stances on genocide is only going to suppress voter turnout.
It shouldn't. It's basic harm reduction.
One side probably won't stop it, but they're on our side so there's a sliver of a cintilla of a chance we could pressure them into it.
The other side absolutely would not, vocally stated he would help accelerate it, and would laugh in our faces and do even more to accelerate it for no other reason than it made us mad.
The choice should have been obvious, even if I and everyone else would have preferred better options.
See people aren't exclusively machines.
I know people who felt that both sides at least tacitly supporting the genocide was so depressing that for their mental health they basically checked out of politics.
No, that response isn't helpful, but it's a very real thing that happens to real people. They needed a candidate that cared that people's lives were ending across the sea, and neither side offered that.
That hurt Kamala's chances in a very real way, and might even be the deciding factor for Trump's second term.
While you and I can look at this and go "Wow, that's not logical, she's way better than Trump", the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would've cost money.
So while it's true that the choice was still objectively obvious, it's also completely true that the Democratic campaign absolutely mishandled it, because this isn't some new phenomenon, and group human psychology isn't unpredictable. It's also not the fault of those who didn't vote because of that.
While you and I can look at this and go “Wow, that’s not logical, she’s way better than Trump”, the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would’ve cost money.
D and R parties both need independent voters to win any election. For example, even if every D voted for a D, they would lose without independents voting for them in significant numbers. This has been a political fact for many years.
So... why did the Harris campaign target REPUBLICAN voters (instead of Ds and independents)? They wasted a lot of vital time on that ("He doesn't need to know who you voted for" etc), and they knew that they would lose if they did so.
She knew it too, Harris isn't stupid. She took a knee.
I'm not fully convinced the conspiracy is that deep, but also if hard evidence came out saying so, I wouldn't be surprised.
I’m not fully convinced the conspiracy is that deep, but also if hard evidence came out saying so, I wouldn’t be surprised.
You don't have to believe my word, but answer this question. You are a Democratic veteran. You KNOW for a FACT that you need Democratic and Independent voters to win. Simple mathematics demands that you do so to win.
Why, oh why, would you pursue the Republican vote? They've never done this before in a Presidential election. It can't work. It's never worked before, anyway.
This was discussed openly during the campaign, tons of Republican outreach and advertising with the Harris run... why?
I cannot think of any other reason, I would actually feel a lot better if there was a logical reason, somebody help my troubled mind
I think they sorta reasonably might have thought kamala would be another Bernie, who was pulling republicans from trump during the primaries against Hilary. They thought kamala had that sort of appeal.
It's not sound logic, but I think someone in politics who doesn't understand what drew people to Bernie could see the parallels and conclude if they focus on it, they can draw those Republicans in.
I think they sorta reasonably might have thought kamala would be another Bernie, who was pulling republicans from trump during the primaries against Hilary
And then acted entitled to the votes of a hostage electorate, just like Clinton did.
I think they sorta reasonably might have thought kamala would be another Bernie
Reasonably? For what reason?
Bernie didn't win the Presidential election. He couldn't even win the nomination.
"Let's try something that has failed, instead of doing something fundamental that we have repeatedly used before to win elections."
"Let's try this idea! It's just Trump, who has won before. No worries"
Come on, she is not that stupid.
They are not that stupid.
Side note: They collected over a billion dollars for this failure (that we know of). New record!
yep, and the Dem leadership still support israel no matter what they do. They learned nothing and will try to set up the same voter hostage situation in every vote from now on.
Right? Makes that other comment under this seem more valid.
But we've got a bunch of supposed leftists in this very thread talking about how they wouldn't vote for these types of democrats. These are people that obsensibly are self aware enough not to let their supposedly so well informed morality be determined by feeling bummed out about their options.
I don't expect miracles from the average, barely informed voter. I do fucking expect supposed informed leftists to not actively campaign against voting. I expect them to fucking understand this "obvious" situation. THAT is my main sticking point.
Yes, and white people get depressed about racism, so they just ignore what bums them out. Insane that a defense of online leftists amounts to "they just such smol bean, they too bummed for voting sad face".
While you and I can look at this and go “Wow, that’s not logical, she’s way better than Trump”, the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would’ve cost money.
At the very least maybe the Dem party should have been smart enough lie publically that they would censor Israel and reevaluate US support of Israel (even if they wouldn't actually follow through). It's almost like losing is preferable to risking any AIPAC $.
I know people who felt that both sides at least tacitly supporting the genocide was so depressing that for their mental health they basically checked out of politics.
to do that in a democracy is beyond shameful.
You don't have to be invested at the grass roots or debating magats but you can still turn up at a polling station on election day, or do a fucking postal vote
Just because humans are vulnerable to certain psychological effects, doesn't mean it's not the fault of those who were effected by them. Humans are also vulnerable to stress eating. That doesn't remove the blame from fat asses with no self-control.
And this person absolutely should have better self-control, whoever the fuck, sorry, TF she is.
And some candidates should be able to take a stand against genocide. Too bad you got your way and none were on the ballot.
Yes "my way". As an American jew I'm totally not horrified by what my supposed homeland is doing, and I certainly don't challenge anyone to call me a Jewish antisemite for saying "Fuck Israel". And I also don't still have to live with that complicit radioactive orange dementia patient as my fucking President because a bunch of pansy cocksuckers couldn't get off their knees and go fucking vote against him.
And I also don’t still have to live with that complicit radioactive orange dementia patient as my fucking President because a bunch of pansy cocksuckers couldn’t get off their knees and go fucking vote against him.
Maybe if democrats credibly supported something other than genocide, more people would have voted against him.
Maybe if democrats credibly supported something other than genocide, more people would have voted against him.
Or, maybe if she had been unequivocally anti-genocide or even anti-funding Israel without checks or guarantees from Israel first, she would have lost even worse. Sad to think about, but close to 1/3 of the US is irredeemable deplorables who have been shamelessly propagandized for over 40 years by hate media. Your own argument seems to distill down to everyone is a genocider. Can you really say that she wouldn't have lost more votes than she gained, and that the purity testers wouldn't have just moved on to a different issue they had with her and still sat out on election day?
Sad to think about, but close to 1/3 of the US is irredeemable deplorables who have been shamelessly propagandized for over 40 years by hate media.
They aren't ever going to vote for a democrat. They are not your audience, they are not your voters, and no matter how much you support genocide, unless you support it harder than trump, none of them will vote for you. Not fucking one.
Your own argument seems to distill down to everyone is a genocider.
Well, considering how many of you are still carrying water for a genocidal candidate more than a year after the election, I'm disappointed to say that too many members of the democratic party support genocide and nothing else.
Can you really say that she wouldn’t have lost more votes than she gained
I think that's the very reason that the party won't release its postmortem on the election.
purity testers
All this has ever meant is "I have no standards and I expect you to abandon yours."
Yes. I agree, but unfortunately I'm not buddies with Nancy Pelosi or whoever the fuck picks these people, and I don't make the rules, I just live under them.
Yes. I agree, but
But you blame the voters instead of the politicians who refuse to represent them.
Yes. Because I also live in reality, where the lesser of two evils is often the only option.
And I hate everyone who manipulated events so that no one had the option to vote against genocide.
You just hate the voters.
Politicians lie. They say shit that they think will get them elected, and then make decisions once in office. For all we know, Harris has a modicum of morals, and would have put Israel in its place, despite what she said. We'll never know, because instead your non-vote was a vote for Trump, who absolutely was never going to do that. And now the country is falling apart, and the entire world hates us, for good reason. And people are being disappeared off the street, if not straight up murdered. So thanks for your moral outrage. It's partly responsible for this shit show. This isn't up for debate. YOU HELPED MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
We'll never know, because instead your non-vote was a vote for Trump,
I've been saying all over this thread that I voted for harris.
None of you give a solitary shit who anyone voted for. The only thing any centrist wants from the voters is enthusiastic support for your only policy: genocide.
We don't live in a world of "should", in the real world of course it is demoralizing and affects the vote turnout.
We all know the US government will back Israel no matter what... and the voters can only punish the incumbent party for doing so.
65% of Democrats don't want to finance Israel. Two thirds of their own party, that's massive!
Voter turnout will continue to fall; D and R parties will continue to lose voters (now down to 30% registered voters each) and the Independents will continue to grow (now up to 40% of voters).
Why? Because our major parties ignore what their constituents actually want, and we can only punish one party every term.
It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
The same people in this thread blaming voters for how Kamala Harris ran their campaign were the same ones insisting we had to run Biden as the incumbent, and calling you a bit or a school if you said they needed to be replaced.
We wouldn't have this outcome if the people who've made it their entire identity to blame voters had placed their frustrations with the party and demanded better, sooner, when it could have made a material difference.
The problem then being the electorate. The same group so many here want to absolve. You may not care about politics and want to 'check out' but it still cares about you and will still effect you even if you try to ignore it. In that vein elections will still happen and people you agree/disagree with will still be given power over you and your life. No matter how low the turn out a decision will be made with or without your input. Better to do what you can to give that input and make it the most useful it can be, before you get no input at all
The problem then being the electorate.
Yeah, they should shut up and love genocide like you do.
How are all those iranians doing now after those protest votes. Their deaths totally worth the clear conscious of not voting
The left tried to warn you. As you are doing right now, you deliberately interpreted it as advocacy for trump so you wouldn't have to alter your unconditional support for genocide and nothing else.
Because it is. Trump is going to win if you dont do what you can to stop him. He is actively vying for a third term and people here are saying theyll let him have it unless they get every concession they demand. Fuck the consequences. And you all think that is a legitimate way to let this all play out. Dividing your votes into a hundred different candidates will fail. This is fact amd reality.
You will lose again if you nominate a pro-genocide shithead. You prefer to lose over nominating anyone who might not give netanyahu everything you want him to have.
The very fact that the Trolley Problem exists as a thought experiment and there is still active discourse over the correct solution should tell you why people didn't all feel that they had a responsibility to vote for harm reduction. You can't expect an election that resembles a famously divisive philosophical thought experiment to turn out with everyone arriving at the same conclusion, and it's pointless to dwell on the fact that everyone didn't fall in line with what you think is obvious rather than adjusting to the reality and acting accordingly. That means getting candidates elected in primaries that aren't going to put us in the same trolley problem come time for the general.
If every election is a decision between the lesser of two evils and both evils become more evil over time then harm isn't actually reduced in the long run. This is why harm reduction is a failing long term electoral strategy.
People preaching harm reduction whose candidates only ever increase harm over the last offering know this. They're arguing in bad faith.
It absolutely is the best option, IF these are the only options. You don't get to constantly pretend that there's some obvious other solution without ever naming AND campaigning it. Basically, this entire thread is filled to the brim with online leftists hating on every possible option, propose fiire bombing walmarts, and then NEVER ACTUALLY FIREBOMB A WALMART.
It requires immense amounts of privilege to campaign for waiting for a better option to magically manifest.
It absolutely is the best option, IF these are the only options.
And you're so happy that there were no other options.
Imagine there's an election with two candidates.
Both candidates have expressed that they will torture and kill you, specifically, r1veRRR.
One candidate will torture and kill you using environmentally friendly methods, the other will do so using fossil fuels.
Would you support the environmentalist candidate? Would you vote for them? Would you campaign for them?
It shouldn’t.
Perhaps. But that's not the world we live in. Demanding an electorate to suddenly change in a way it never has and start behaving like Homo economicus is only going to lead to further loses.
It’s basic harm reduction.
Nonsense.
Absolute nonsense, and the Palestinian Americans who voted 'undetermined' en masse during the Democratic primaries to send a message to Biden/Harris knew it too. The party made their choice between the people and an unpopular genocide. They chose genocide.
Hey guess what. The genocide got even worse under harris' opposition. How did that work out for all the genocide joe non-voters. How have palestinians benefitted under those protest votes/non-votes. Not to mention all the dead iranians that wouldnt be had harris won
Hey guess what. The genocide got even worse under harris’ opposition.
Congratulations on the furtherance of your only goal.
That's true.
It always does, because both ruling parties exist in service to Israel. And therefore, they have no impetus to do anything but escalate.
Had she been elected we'd be in exactly the same position.
Really wed be at war with iran? Wed be blowing up random boats and killing people in the caribean? We would have snatched up other country leaders? We would have completely destroyed world trade by tarrifing every other country on the planet? We would have all but destroyed the NATO aliance by starting said iran war and also threatening to violently invade greenland and canada? Do you need a prescription for this severity of blindness
Really wed be at war with iran? Wed be blowing up random boats and killing people in the caribean? We would have snatched up other country leaders?
Israel would be, and therefore, we would be too. Yes.
We would have completely desgrpyed world trade by tarrifing every other country on the planet?
You'll recall that Biden actually kept many of the Donald tariffs, so yes, it's likely we'd be okay with disrupting trade to some extent.
We wpuld have all but destroyed the NATO aliance by starting said iran war and also threatening to violently invade greenland and canada?
Not Canada or Greenland specifically, but considering Obama was at war in 7 countries when he left office (that we're able to confirm, at least. Could be many more.), and Biden was bombing several countries as well as aiding and abetting genocide and a manufactured famine in Palestine, it's hard to argue that we wouldn't be doing stupid shit militarily regardless. That's especially true given the bloodlust of Israel and the Democrats' insistence that we continue to hand them WMD's on demand.
Do you need a prescription for this severoty of blindness
Thank you for the suggestion. You need to stop pretending that the Democrats are meaningfully different from Republicans, especially considering the Democrats also ran a candidate with publicly-evident brain damage.
You’ll recall that Biden actually kept many of the Donald tariffs, so yes, it’s likely we’d be okay with disrupting trade to some extent.
And introduced his own tariffs on Chinese EVs.
Israel would be, and therefore, we would be too. Yes.
No we wouldnt. Biden had four years to do this and never did. Youre making up fake scenarios to justify your position
You'll recall that Biden actually kept many of the Donald tariffs, so yes, it's likely we'd be okay with disrupting trade to some extent.
Some not all anf hr didnt introduce 200% random tarrifs accross allues and random countries alike. Again fake scenarios to justify your position
Not Canada or Greenland specifically, but considering Obama was at war in 7 countries when he left office (that we're able to confirm, at least. Could be many more.), and Biden was bombing several countries as well as aiding and abetting genocide and a manufactured famine in Palestine, it's hard to argue that we wouldn't be doing stupid shit militarily regardless. That's especially true given the bloodlust of Israel and the Democrats' insistence that we continue to hand them WMD's on demand.
So no. He wouldnt have like trump did do and that youre trying to downplay with made up scenarios of what you think biden would have done even though he could have but didnt.
You need to stop gaslighting yourself into thinking everyone is the same and only you are special and different and see the problems of the world. They are different. There are people dead today that would not have been had harris won and trump lost. But you do all this song amd dance to try and justify inaction in the face of trump. Or worse cause so much division that no cohesive response to trump can be formed.
they're on our side
The side of genocide, oligarchy and fascism?
What is more the "Democrat are bad because Palestine" was the opposition's framing. The argumeny was pretty unanimous that the policy on Palestine was going to cost the Democrats the election. The Democrats were bad because they knew full well they were going to choose to lose over changing that policy.
And that's just tunnel visioning at only the Israeli policy.
Yeah, the choice was bad or worse, and people chose worse. Life sucks sometimes, they need to grow up.
Yes, I can see that it would be demoralizing, and it was demoralizing. The Schumer/Biden wing of the Democrats deserves to be cast into the bonfire of the vanities, they are completely useless. And while this might sound sarcastic, I truly believe they have ended their usefulness, if they ever had much.
But we are talking about human beings and their lives. It may not make much of a philosophical difference to compare different stances on this senseless slaughter, but it makes eminently practical sense to save the lives you can. An American Presidential election was not going to produce much of a genocide-stopping president in 2024, and I hope 2028 does better, but there were distinct differences in approach and stance and collaboration with Bibi.
Case in point, look up "Gaza floating pier," vs. "Trump Gaza resort." it's not about philosophical differences when you are starving.
Palestine is where Leopards Ate My Face meets Meanwhile On Grad. The two extremes have a common goal of destroying the country. MAGAts are shocked that Republicans are getting us into another war in the Middle East and the country is going hell. Gradbots are so pissed off with the the Democrat's ("blue maga") lack of spine against Israel that they want to burn the country to the ground in vengeance.
Making logical points weighing up two distinct yet similar stances on genocide is only going to suppress voter turnout.
It's the same as any other US election. We always have two shit sandwich options forced by the parties. There's always some absolutely fucked position they're both going to work towards and it is just a factor of which is less bad.
There have been other genocides the US has supported for decades elsewhere that go one gave a fuck about. The issues in Gaza aren't new, they're just more visible right now because of Israeli lobbying, one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the US.
Even knowing that Trump was going to actively help Bibi?
The US was doing it anyway before Trump2.0
Not doing much to stop it is a weird way of saying actively helping it.
I see you too are actively helping it then. It's your own words!
Yeah buddy I wasn't saying not actively working against it was helping it. I meant literally helping it. That Administration was actively arming the Israelis and aiding in the genocide. Super weird that you didn't know that.
Ok then tell me this, did Bibi like Biden? Did he want Biden to win? Did he think Biden let him do all he wanted? What did Biden say about Bibi in return?
Then you can look at things like Republicans voting to force continued sales of weapons
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/us/politics/house-bill-reverse-israel-arms-pause.html
Meanwhile; https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5429072-sanders-resolution-fails-israel-military/
Tell me what Biden could've done that wouldn't amount to starting a war?
You're such a ghoul, actively helping people like Musk and Miller and ensuring Trump won't put up obstacles for Israel murdering people in Lebanon and Iran. Because it's more important to you that people get martyred against their will for your personal ideological purity. You knew the genocide would get worse if Trump won and you decided that would be better
Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide. Biden could have simply said he cannot legally support Israel in any way and then just not. Instead Biden chose to lie for Israel aboiut 40 beheaded babies and provide unlimited diplomatic support, going so far as to bomb Yemen for resisting.
Democratic leadership knew this would decrease turnout, they prioritized unlimited support for Israel over winning the election.
Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide.
Cool. What’s the source, please?
Also, does it work when we’re the one doing it? And is it strictly genocide or is it general war criming.
Here's a list of domestic laws that were violated, to say nothing of international law:
The Foreign Assistance Act, which forbids the provision of assistance to a government which “engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.”
Arms Export Control Act, which says countries that receive U.S. military aid can only use weapons for legitimate self-defense and internal security. Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza goes way beyond self-defense and internal security.
The U.S. War Crimes Act, which forbids grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, including wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and unlawful deportation or transfer, perpetrated by the Israeli Occupying Forces.
The Leahy Law, which prohibits the U.S. Government from using funds for assistance to units of foreign security forces where there is credible information implicating that unit in the commission of gross violations of human rights.
The Genocide Convention Implementation Act, which was enacted to implement U.S. obligations under the Genocide Convention, provides for criminal penalties for individuals who commit or incite others to commit genocide
Ok then if you're right why was Netanyahu mad at Biden? Why did he want Trump to win? Because there's no such thing as unlimited support and then wanting to remove the person you're getting unlimited support from
Do you understand that a lot of politics is theater? You have to watch what people actually do, not what they pretend.
Ok so then why are you refusing to look at what people actually did?
Edit: Trump has been pushing for ethnic cleansing so he could have waterfront casinos and you guys love him
You're all a bunch of traitors
I think because your definition of "what people actually did" and mine differs a lot. Either that or we are talking past each other.
Yeah, your crowd decided to help Republicans guarantee more people got killed and tortured.
But you're pretending you have no responsibility for the consequences of your actions because you're such an ideologically pure idealist
This is a russian/eastern perspective. Theater has no effect on real life politics does. They are NOT the same. If you act like they are you are part of the problem.
This is a russian/eastern perspective.
No its not. This is the plain western world reality that politicians lie and posture. If you think you can trust what they say then I dont know what to tell you.
Yes they lie but that is not theater. That is a lie. Do you not know the difference? This kind of mindset is exactly what im talking about.
In Biden/Harris's case of supporting the zionists while pretending to be against what they are doing-- with nonsense like his idiotic and pointless floating dock, and his very temporary freeze on one type of munition-- "lies vs theater" seems to me to be a distinction without a difference.
And do you remember all the times we heard that Biden and Harris were negotiating feverishly with netenyahu and talking about their concerns, for the Israelis to then say Biden never called them and there has been no communication at all? So how do you see that distinction between lies and theater matters at all?
Fuck israel. Theres and entire school of iranian kids that are now dead because harris lost. That is the destinction.
You mean the liar who wanted Trump to win lied?
This is a russian/eastern perspective
Pro-genocide centrists (there is no other kind) say this about everyone who disagrees with them on their only policy.
You can not be anti genocide and actively assist Republicans in making the genocide worse.
If you genuinely oppose genocide you're obligated to oppose those who want to make it worse, and yet you're helping them
If you don't like genocide, it means you support genocide - the genocide wing of the democratic party.
No i say this to anyone trying to downplay the severity of political involvement. The fact you dont understand this is exactly why
The fact you dont understand this is exactly why
I love how centrists imagine that people don't understand them when they're just not buying their flimsy justification for genocide support.
If centrists wanted anything more than they wanted genocide, they would actually have fought for something harder than they did for genocide. I don't think any of you ever will.
I'm pretty sure you'll call the students who protested centrists for not being successful enough too
Centrists blocked progress and supported genocide. Centrists have never been more successful at the only things centrists are for.
Yeah you fucking moron, I'm trying to get rid of the centrists too, and you pretend I am one so you can lie about my motivations to let you embrace hatred of innocent people without having to answer for it
This thread is from April.
Because Biden's base was less pro-genocide, so no matter what Biden himself did, strategically the republicans would always be a safer bet.
There was no level of support the dems could offer that would have caused Netanyahu to support them over the republicans.
Who gives a fuck! You ghouls care more about your fucking parasocial kayfabe character drama than the lives of millions of people
You call it kayfabe and call me a ghoul and then you're choosing to help Republicans hurt billions
That makes you a monster
Edit: you saw what project 2025 would do and decided to help people like Musk, Miller, Bannon and Trump, so that they could escalate the suffering, because YOU WANTED IT, because you prefer seeing people die if it means USA loses status, you'll rather see people martyred then fed by aid from a source you find offensive
Lol. At least try to be consistent
I am consistent in calling you out for selectively doing whatever helps Republicans
Then where's the real fucking reality grounded criticism, because when you're lying you're actually helping the enemy
Biden Administration Bypassed Congress on Weapons Sale to Israel
To start with, he could have, uh, not bypassed congress on weapons sales to Israel.
It's certainly telling what he was willing to bypass congress to do after he couldn't bypass congress for the agenda he ran on.
Pretty trivially easy question. Biden could have done a lot of things -- vetoed funding and stopped running interference for Israel in the UN. And he could have called it a genocide and illegal on the world stage. Biden refused to call it a genocide. He could have called for an international force to stop the killing. He also flew recon missions for the Israelis with US drones over Gaza didnt he.
And "starting a war"? with who, Israel? Are you stupid? That war would last 5 minutes. Biden took massive amounts of money from AIPAC his entire career, and called himself a zionist all the time. Your pretending he had no choice and was simply a victim of circumstance is pure lies. He was massively bribed. A corrupt peice of shit genocide supporter. He would absolutely lose his case and be imprisoned if the US had done the right thing and signed onto the ICC. He belongs in an orange jumpsuit, sharing a cell with trump.
If you're 100% right why did Netanyahu want to get rid of him?
Why has NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU responded to this question with anything but insults?
Dont look at words, look at actions.
A war with iran. Because trump won we have now killed dozens/hundreds of iranians. People that would not have died if harris had won. So again what would biden/harris have done that would have amounted to starting a war. Are you stupid...
You are happy to accept this as long as no one had a non-genocidal candidate to vote for.
No im not. Those iranians wouldnt have died if trump was not in office. Everyone who didnt do all they could to stop his assention is responsible for their deaths. They would not have died if kamela had won. The palestiniams would have died either way so they do not change the equation at all.
The palestiniams would have died either way
Good for you. You got all you ever wanted.
The gall to ignore the deaths of Iranian civilians while saying this
Just admit you prefer to let more innocent people get hurt as long at you can claim your hands are clean. If you can't uphold your purity you would rather let people die
The gall to ignore the deaths of Iranian civilians while saying this
It must really bother you that you have to pretend that you don't love it.
You're a fucking psychopath
Something else to think about? If you voted third party or sat out, your hands aren't necessarily clean ofgenocide. Do you pay federal income tax?
I would argue that contributing thousands of unaccountable $ to the federal government which you know is going to engage in violence and empire building makes one much more morally culpable for US actions than a single vote for president in a single election.
Can those who think the moral action was to not vote at all or not vote D or R because that is support for genocide, but who pay federal income tax, care to explain how their hands are clean?
To bring it back to the trolley problem, it's like refusing to pull the lever because to do so would be to acknowledge that the entire exercise is ethical or otherwise valid, while forgetting to mention that you personally financed that specific trolley and stretch of track.
I suspect there a certain kind of person that is only interested in taking moral or ethical stands if the personal consequences for doing so are zero. How long do we think it would take for either major party to start begging the electorate to tell them how to behave if a significant majority of the populace decided today to stop going to work and to stop paying any taxes?
I'm not from USA (but your country's dumbassery spills over to us, see oil prices) and right now I'm actively avoiding American companies who sought to flatter Trump
I did what I could to get your people to recognize Trump must lose, but you had too many who believed the lies
No i didnt. I voted for harris to try and stop this bullshit. YOU got what you wanted. Harris lost and now the world must contend with the consequences and even more people will die.
No i didnt.
You got genocide and no centrist has ever wanted anything else.
I voted for harris to try and stop this bullshit.
I voted for harris. I will never forgive myself for voting for genocide just because it was the less horrible option. You voted for genocide first, candidate second.
Harris lost and now the world must contend with the consequences and even more people will die.
You got the only thing you ever wanted. Stop griping that your close second choice is doing it instead of your first choice.
Stop pretending other people are responsible for YOUR choices, you monster
You're just not believable. Everything you say appear crafted to convince people to stop opposing Republicans' acceleration of genocide. You're trying to convince people to stop taking action to oppose evil, to settle for just complaining about it.
You want people to stop taking action and stop making better choices because no choice is pure enough. But instead that makes you responsible when the worst outcomes happen
You’re trying to convince people to stop taking action to oppose evil, to settle for just complaining about it.
I'm trying to get people to kick the worthless genocidal shit you worship to the curb where they belong. I advocate for the honest primaries you don't want because dishonest primaries are the only thing keeping your genocidal shit in office where you want anyone who wants to murder Palestinian children for your entertainment.
Who the fuck else than you worship genociders here?
You havent advocated for anything but voter apathy and disengagent. Your arguments herr are exactly why this is all happening.
You havent advocated for anything but voter apathy and disengagent.
I get that you think that since you can't imagine a politician moving away from your only policy.
Ok then tell me this, did Bibi like Biden?
Who gives a fuck! You ghouls care more about your fucking parasocial kayfabe character drama than the lives of millions of people
Ok so then if you're the one who cares so much about those millions, why are you actively helping the people who are trying to make their lives worse?
Are you an LLM
Says who, Elon Musk's fanboy? You're happy that the deaths are spread out to more people now?
sure, the Democrats were not doing much to stop the slaughter
They were selling weapons to enable the genocide you're downplaying by refusing to call it a genocide.
Yes. Because what so many folks can't seem to get is that different people are different. And they have different ethics.
This is literally the entire point of the trolley problem. Yes, you can stick your fingers in your ears and say, "always pull the lever for the track with fewer people on it." But that's just not how ethics works. Utilitarian ethics is one way to live life, but utilitarians have this incredibly annoying habit of assuming that theirs is the only valid ethical system, and that you're a complete moron if you follow any other school of thought.
You're demonstrating a utilitarian sense of ethics. One who follows a respect-for-persons belief system would say that the ends don't justify the means. That it's not fine to pull the trolley lever, even if that would result in a net saving of lives. That it's fine to vote to hold people accountable, even if that will objectively result in net material harm. It's not always about the greatest good for the greatest number. Otherwise, for example, we would never put any research dollars into studying cures for rare diseases. Those dollars could always objectively do more good elsewhere.
Hell, even our criminal laws don't follow a utilitarian sense of ethics. You can't legally get out of consequences from killing someone by saying, "this on net saved lives." Even if you can objectively prove it, you're not legally allowed to kill people. It doesn't matter if your murder on net saves lives, you're still a murderer. If a gang kidnaps your two children and tells you, "you must go kill this other one person if you want them to live." If you do that, if you go and kill that stranger to save your own kids? You will be charged and convicted of murder. You're not allowed to kill one innocent person to save two innocent people.
Many people voted against or refused to vote for Kamala because they were trying to punish her and the Democratic Party. Voting is the only way we have of holding politicians and parties accountable. Millions of voters saw the horrific haughtiness and barbarity of how the Democrats acted around Gaza, and they wanted to punish them for it. It was about holding them accountable. It was about justice. Many voted against Kamala to punish her for supporting genocide. And if the likely thing came to pass, if Trump supported genocide as well? Well those voters would vote against him for the same reason. They vote to hold people accountable for past actions, not to speculate on future ones. Maybe not how you vote, but again, people are different and can use whatever ethical system they want in choosing their vote.
Again, you can argue greatest good for greatest number, but that isn't the only system of ethics out there, and it's not even the system that defines the foundation of our legal codes.
actively help Bibi?
What would you call Genocide Joe keeping the WMD shipments flowing, on time, without end, even during a manufactured famine?
This is one issue where both parties are literally the same.
The demorcrats would also have gone to war with Iran, if Israel wanted it. Notice how almost none of the majour dems have really condemned the war in Iran, even though it would have been massively electorally advantageous for them?
Maybe they would have done the war more carefully / competently, but they are slaves to the exact same forces of capital, that pushed Trump towards the war.
In terms of any actual metric, Biden was as bad if not worse than Trump in Gaza, but because BlueMAGA were engaging in mass genocide denial when it was their team doing it, they don’t realise.
Imagine being so disingenuous that you actually believe (or at least want others to think you do) that we just didn't know whether Trump would be worse than Harris on Palestine, Iran, and every other fucking thing possible for that matter. I never used to hold much creedence with the whole paid russian or chinese actors angle, even back in 2016. It is becoming more and more difficult to rationally explain how anybody actually living in the US could, with a straight face, make equivalency arguments between Trump and Clinton, Biden, or Harris. It does, however, seem like a perfectly rational act for foreign actors who just want to accelerate their replacement of the US as hegemon to take.
Doing nothing to stop it, cheering on Universities and police that beat and punished protesters, refusing to let Ruwa Romman or anyone else anti-genocide speak at their convention, etc.
Their policy was bad and they were assholes about it at every opportunity. It's honestly amazing she got as many votes as she did.
It absolutely was.
They didn't send Bill Clinton to give primary speeches wagging his finger at Palestinian Americans for nothing.
USians have been OK with crimes against humanity for decades. If Palestine had anything to do with Trump winning, then that's due to propaganda, not them organically giving a fuck.
But why are we still pretending Trump even won when his senile rotting brain admitted they rigged the elections?
Which is a fucking stupid line for people to draw when the opposition was advertising that they would actively do more in a worse way.
I mean, the democrats ARE bad because Palestine. But the Republicans are worse, by A LOT.
Is there any possible way to disagree with you that you won't read as a Russian bot trying to undermine democracy?
It's such a thought-terminating cliche that anyone can use to dismiss any criticism. I could just as easily say that you're a DNC bot. Like, fuck critical thinking, I guess.
I can’t fathom how any of those people thought Trump would consider Palestine anything but a future golf course. It’s been annihilated as a country and a people under Trump.
“Democrats are bad because Palestine” thing was clearly a psyop by Russian bots
By "Palestine" do you mean "supporting genocide in Palestine"?
Liberals: I can fix that voter, I just need to find the right logic combo in my persuasion.
Also Liberals: if voters were rational they would vote for the lesser evil.
Keep lecturing people, I am sure it will work this time around.
Or maybe I just don’t like genocide.
I was fighting that battle right there alongside you, but yes the astroturfing was enormous. Sometimes I felt like I was the only sane person out there.
It helps to remember that there were hundreds of millions, potentially billions, of dollars going specifically to shilling for trump and putin and disparaging the democrats.
Or maybe we should demand politicians who aren't genocidal? I'm not a Russian bot, I just refuse to follow the same bullshit "vote blue no matter who" harm reduction narrative that just leads to infinitely more harm in the long run.
"People who oppose genocide can't possibly be human: they must be foreigners"
You guys I just as fascist as MAGA you know
Well the reality isn't much better. They put a candidate in that couldn't beat anyone in the primaries, but was added because Biden wanted to run again.
It’s a failure of our history classes. People thought the US was better than that but they never learned we really aren’t and light genocide and pretending to feel bad about it is the best we can do.
You refuted the argument by providing all the evidence against it, I presume. You listed all the instances where leading Democrats supported Palestinians in the face of aggression, which are very numerous.
I mean, since that would be the way to remove any doubt
Yeah. I didn't handle that well myself. But in all likelihood people were not going to change their minds anyway. It's like trying to speak English to a duck.
Give up pursuing anyone of any argument these days. You're better off calling them a dickhead and blocking them. That's what I do now.
Fuck nonvoters and third party voters.
Both can be true. How TF we have 4 years to produce a candidate against trump, and the best we got was walking corpse Biden 2.0 and then Kamala "I'm speaking while your homeland is genocided" Harris.
The English language has an nice expression for that: "cut off your nose to spite your face"
I voted for her but if they put Gavin newsom, I don't know if I can care anymore.
I hate that guy, but hate cannot make Me act against My own interests. Well it can a little bit, especially in fast moving situations. But it can't do it with big decisions like My vote.
Yea, but from all his talks and bills I don't trust him to not be against queer people. So in a way they both will be against my own interests.
He will be more against queer people than whoever the Republicans put forth? Really?
If candidate A wants you to hide your queerness and use the wrong bathroom, and candidate B wants to force you to be straight or go to jail or a conversion camp, are you really going to throw your hands up in the air and say it's not worth voting?
Voting for someone does not mean you support everything they stand for. It just means you think they are the best option of what has been laid before you.
Voting for someone does not mean you support everything they stand for.
I've seen what centrists do when they don't get their very first choice. They campaigned against Mamdani and formed a PAC to get McCain elected.
My actions and his actions are two very different things. If he primaries, I may tell people to vote for him against the R, having told people to vote against him in the primaries. In both cases I would be acting in alignment with My interests, for they are two very different choices. I will hope for the best and plan for the worst.
"Option A is really, really bad for me. But I'm not sure if option B wouldn't be somewhat bad, too. So I will just watch and let option A happen."
--- You, and millions of other propaganda victims helping fascists win
I'm getting pretty tired of voting for the 'slightly less bad' blue fascists, though.
No one’s arguing voting Dem is a magical cure-all. Your local Dem will not be 100% aligned with your worldview (unless it’s you in office).
But 65% is more than -200%. A shit-ton of so-called “lefties” cannot do basic math.
The 65% brings us further right so the Republicans can be more evil.
Does it.
No. Stop being wrong.
Yes they do! The Democrats' secret plan is to be so bad at galvanising support so we vote for the Rs, and then the Ds don't even have a lift a finger to destroy democracy. It's ingenious, really. If they actually tried to win elections, they'd win every time, and then the left wing radicals in the party would climb the ranks and push progressive policies. But by losing on purpose, they deflect suspicion and keep the radicals down.
Sure. I mean, it beats trying dunnit.
But 65% is more than -200%.
Nah, it's more like "-40% is more than -200%"
Still headed toward fascism and abuse ... just a bit slower.
We're in a car heading toward a cliff, and we have a choice of whether to hit the gas or the brakes. But the brakes are really shitty and can only slow us down slightly -- no way they'll stop in time.
So instead we hit the gas or do nothing...really?
They should steer left -towards ice cream.
Well, my plan is to jump out of the car (leave the country). But what you do is up to you.
Imagine that. Shitting on everything and leaving. How leftist.
If you're a Jew in Germany in, say ... 1926, what's your best option for survival?
Voting? lol
Staying and fighting? Good on you, but your chances of surviving that are extremely slim.
Staying and hiding? Somewhat better chances, but still pretty bad.
Getting the fuck out of Germany and going far away? By far your best chance.
You’re a Jew in Germany in 1926?
Far out.
I apologize. I thought you might have the mental acuity necessary to understand analogies and hypotheticals.
No, but I know enough to vote against trump
Your local Dem will not be 100% aligned with your worldview (unless it’s you in office).
Biden and trump supported genocide, so they supported 100% of everything you've ever been.
Your courage to do anything will help in the long run.
Please at least consider the option that helps some others.
It's not even that. EVERYONE is harmed by fascists. Or, if you'd like to rephrase it this way: EVERYONE is harmed much more by fascists. Either way, in the general, vote blue. In the primaries, vote for the best option. And if you can run for office, run for office.
He's against all people who aren't Gavin Newsom. He's clearly a snake
Single issue voting is how fascists win.
Voting is how fascists win.
This won't be fixed by voting. It never could have been and it never will be.
Voting is how fascists win.
I'm just quoting the stupidest thing I've read this week for posterity.
Am I wrong?
Well, I don't know here, let's fucking use a brain cell or two.
Arguably, sure, facists win because people vote for them.
And do you know how facists lose? PEOPLE VOTE FOR NOT-FASCISTS.
So what you said was true and also the most useless fucking worthless statement I've read all week.
After all, the entire fucking point here is STOP VOTING FOR FASCISTS.
And do you know how facists lose? PEOPLE VOTE FOR NOT-FASCISTS.
Historically speaking, when have fascists ever been voted out of power?
Peak BlueMAGA voter outreach
Username checks out.
People said that about Harris too. You see how that’s going, yes?
I hate that guy, but hate cannot make Me act against My own interests
If only everyone on Lemmy were this intelligent lol
If it was a race between Gavin Newsom and JD Vance I’d vote Newsom in an instant.
I agree but it’s like asking “where would you like to be stabbed?”
For any Democrat trying to “move to the center” I’d like to point towards Labour in UK and ask them how that’s going.
Thankfully 2028 is a political lifetime away and Newsom might not even be relevant.
Labour UK has been kind of astounding to watch. They started strong then somewhere around six months in it started to get wonky. And now it’s like some sort of Labourexit. Bizarre. But I guess that's why the Greens are growing.
Newsom would do good things for the country and the world just like Harris or even Biden 2.0 would have.
Newsom would tell the base to fuck off while funding ICE and war, guaranteeing republican victories in 2030 and 32. He would be a Biden 2.0.
Biden did a lot of great things during his time as president and it’s a testament to the failing american education system and the right-wing propaganda machine how people couldn’t see it.
He also enabled genocide in Palestine and set the stage for Trump to win
All in all, a net negative to the world.
Dumb shit americans voting Trump or third party brought Trump into power.
That's like saying the fever is what's making you feel bad.
Like, sure. But you're blaming the symptom not the cause. It's the virus that did it.
Wagging your finger at those disillusioned by Dems being shit clearly hasn't worked multiple times now. Maybe we should try something else.
Voters vote people in with our current system.
It's also a testament to how bad the Biden administration failed at messaging.
Biden's BBB and infrastructure spending was some of the best legislature of our lifetimes(yes BBB was watered down, corrupted, and did not meet the moment, but the bar is in hell).
Instead of doing full-court media blitz to advertise this victory to voters, they said almost nothing. Too afraid that Biden would reveal his dementia to the public, I guess. Fewest press conferences in modern presidential history, by far.
"Hitler made the trains run on time"
It's not going to be JD. Mark my words, save my comment, it's going to be Tucker Carlson. And if that happens and Dems haven't changed their tune we are absolutely fucked.
If that happens and leftists are still their own biggest enemies with their pursuit of an ideologically pure candidate that doesn’t exist we’ll be fucked.
I don't think most leftists are looking for an ideologically pure candidate, they're looking for someone who will actually represent the people. The Israel issue is a great example of this disconnect; amongst Dem voters 90% are against supporting Israel, and yet there's only a handful of Democrat politicians who have are agaimst sending Israel military aid. It's really not a high bar for candidates to clear, and yet establishment Dems just keep SPRINTING to the right.
Leftists arent their own enemies, their enemies are neoliberals.
The only thing leftists do more than infighting is repeating right-wing propaganda.
Newsom is not left wing just because his interns make fun of Trump on twitter. Some people don't want their options to be "fascist" or "neoliberal" and shills like you critizise them more than they do with the literal nazis keeping this system in place
I have friends and family getting their rights taken away and getting deported right now I need Trump gone.
If that makes me a shill so be it.
Start a party that has a chance then start lecturing about changing the system.
I have friends and family getting their rights taken away and getting deported right now I need Trump gone.
Then you need a candidate who can win. Not a candidate you want because they're a genocidal piece of shit and you love nothing in this world but genocide.
Yeah, you should find an issue other than genocide to support.
That doesn’t even make sense.
Only because you can't imagine supporting anything but genocide.
You must understand that acting like this makes people disregard leftist’s opinions.
No one's making you ignore the concerns of everyone but netanyahu. You do that on your own with no prompting.
So why did he endorse Trump if the democrats were doing everything he wanted already?
You're disappointed that you didn't get his endorsement.
You don’t have an answer so you’re turning to personal insults?
You call everyone who doesn't masturbate to dead Palestinian children a russian.
[Citation needed]
I'm not digging through the genocidal compost heap that is your comment history.
That’s convenient.
To not have your time wasted by a sealioning genocidal troll, yup.
I think you’re confused by the meaning of most of the words in that sentence.
Sorry, a gaslighting sealioning genocidal troll.
You keep making accusations that don’t line up with anyone’s reality.
More gaslighting from the genocide wing. Name one policy democrats fought for harder than they fought to make sure netanyahu got his weapons.
EDIT: And suddenly the rapid fire responses fall silent. The genocide wing knows they only fight for one thing.
Just like last time
That’s because yOu LoVe tEh GeNoSiiiiiDe!11!
I, however, am SO much smarter and better than you. I choose to let trump win.
. . . Wait how was this supposed to work again?
yOu LoVe tEh GeNoSiiiiiDe
You downplay opposition to your only policy. Because, and this is the only true thing about you or any centrist: YOU. LOVE. GENOCIDE.
I don't think people arguing against you get newsom he fundamentally has no real beliefs and will just do things to get more power. He throws the dem base under the bus at every opportunity and is somehow more pro billionaire that the average corp dem.
Yeah, I would rather have pritsker, at least he seems to have a backbone among the Democrat governors. I also think having conservative Democrats brings us further right so more evil Republicans can get in power.
Gavin running for president might flip California red lol. He is hated here across the political spectrum.
If Gavin Newsom is the dem candidate I will not be able to stomach voting for him, im a trans person and I refuse to vote for someone who would actively backstab me
It's easy to critique and play both sides when you don't live here
Same Americans that want others to revolt against oppressive govt.
“Americans”
This was all over Lemmy, too, along with all the other social media platforms.
It pretty much disappeared everywhere the instant trump won, as well as the complaints about grocery prices and the lies about gas prices.
The exception was lemmy, prob thanks to hex, grad, and ml, where people still find the time to randomly inject democrat hate.
This is what will keep happening if the Dems election strategy remains "if you don't vote for us you get that asshole". And use them as an excuse not to do anything.
Okay, so:
- Voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with (edited in: the) least horrible consequences and
- Voting Democrat in the general election isn't nearly enough to stop the ratchet-effecting into fascism, and a stand-for-nothing placeholder centrist Democrat president in 2028 will probably just lead to Trump-3/Vance/someone similarly horrible in 2032
are unfortunately both true.
Also, non-MAGA Americans - (EDIT: liberals, not the party leaders) and leftists alike - need better people skills. With infighting like this, Republicans hardly even need to lift a finger.
This person is an idiot. The american public gave up on their one chance to influence the outcome of the presidency and fucked it up for everyone beyond comprehension, and are now still trying to push the blame on the establishment. Fuck every one of the sitouts and republican voters. You enabled the orange buffoon and couldnt see the threat he represented. Sometimes, when life gives you a choice between lemons and your way of life being destroyed in a childish tantrum, you swallow the fucking lemon.
Gaza and the world thanks you. Fuckers.
Yeah, in glorious free America, there are only ever two choices. Ain't democracy great?
I mean, she's right. Dems are supposed to represent the ideological opposite of Cons, both domestically and internationally.
Of course, US foreign policy has always been uni-party, so there was never a chance that the Dems were going to concede. Despairingly so.
I voted for Kamala, but she didn't everything in her power to destroy the momentum she got after Biden dropped out.
Arguing over who would have genocided people the nicest is fucked up on soooooooo many levels.
Punishing a politician by electing one who is even worse according your own standards. In my country, this is called "voting for the fox because the rooster is crowing out of tune".
That this has over 700 upvotes on lemmy.world says everything you need to know about lemmy.world.
You see it turns out you can have more than 1 thought in your head at once. Trump can be a fascist who materially supports a genocide and the democrat party can also be materially supporting a genocide. Look at how little they've done to stop the Iran war. Why do you think that is?
IMO it doesn't matter if you do a 3rd party protest vote if you're not in a swing state. The system is fundamentally broken by design
There seems to be a ton of finger pointing from liberals (mostly outside of leemy). Trump won on promises to gullible fools on literally making cost of living cheaper (this includes fascist and non fascist talking points)
The dems lost on not conveying their solutions to cost of living well and of course not taking a stand against the faction of war and genocide that many of them are actively working for or with.
A lot of establishment dems are just mad it's not their brand of authoritarianism
Get the F off of x.
americans when politics take up more than 1 bit:
It's a fundamental flaw with the 2-party system. There are no good options, only a "lesser evil" option.
By offering 2 truly ridiculously poor candidates as alternatives.
X as a platform is right wing propaganda. This would specifically attempt to undermine the progressive in the left-centers eyes, exacerbating division.
this garbage again. now it’s voter fault that they forced a superpac shill who told the voters to stfu while bombing kids in refugee camp and let megacorps fck working class. this time they didn’t even bothered with a sham primary like hillary or biden.
all mainstream dems other than aoc, warren and bernie are still spitting on its base. has harris or dem leadership done one thing to change their stance or support its people after election ?
keep voting lesser evil and you will keep getting two faced snakes with better propaganda.
Putin trolls are fueling dissent on both sides to create polarization in the West.
Vote For The Lesser Fascist next time, dipshit.
Always adorable when Dems lose an election and then pretend to be against the very thing they just spent the last four years supporting enthusiastically even though they had the power to stop it, even amidst the deliberate starvation of children.
Nothing wrong with voting 3rd party. Blame the people who don't vote/vote for the side you don't like.
If people are unhappy they vote for the party not in power. Social media is much better at making us all unhappy than happy. I don’t think we will see a 2 term president for a while.
"punish the Democrats" is a weird way to put it, seeing as it's minorities in America getting punished the hardest.
The US is a nation of and for leopards, the sooner it's humbled properly the better off the world will be
Plenty of people on lemmy saying the same exact things too. It's crazy.
Kamla Harris was a total mistake of a candidate, she was never going to beat trump
Since no one else is doing it... got to be the change you want to see yourself!
She said F Kamala and got a war in Iran, oops
Both things are not exclusive. Establishment in US are complicit in Genocide.
Punish the dems knowing that we have a cancer as the Republican candidate. Gee, I have no idea how he got voted in! 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
I’m so sick of sharing my fresh air with these people.
The democrats don't mind a republican president they are part of the same ecosystem of power, if you don't understand this it makes sense why you'd ask these questions
Yeah, Democrats deserve your vote, as long as the republicans are slightly worse!
Leopards snacking on the left after feasting on the right.
Israel has all of the scared and all we have to do to be rid of them is stop sending them welfare.
Deep cover Republican
Awesome. Right down the middle of fuckwit lane.
Bring out yer dead! *bong*
I'd be very curious to see how many of you vote for someone who killed your entire family. Hey, you may even have the opportunity to by the time Trump dies and federal Dems expect you to pretend that they did anything to stop this.
Edit: I'm gonna leave this here in case any of you bloodthirsty libs think that you actually care about anyone's wellbeing. Imagine hearing news every week -- maybe even every day -- of your cousins dying, your siblings, your parents, your neighbours, people who you spoke to once and remember fondly, everything about your home destroyed in the most brutal and violent way imaginable; some of them died slowly, trapped under rubble for days. Then, you can't stomach to support or even tolerate the people who haven't even stopped bombing and sniping and gassing your family, and some fucking privileged assholes in the metropole blame you when their white supremacist state elects one of two white supremacists. Almost inhuman levels of dissonance.
Look at this and say why you think these people don't deserve to hate you and the system you benefit from.
I remember having fights over this on the internet. Telling people with this mentality how they were fucking morons.
When genocide is bipartisan consensus in a country, the lesser evil is the destruction of that country
the republicans need punishment more than any party.
also the democrats don't even want to win so forcing them to serve a term and actually have a fucking job is the greatest punishment you could ever inflict upon them.
I love how disenchanted voters complain about a 2 party system but fail to realize that in a democracy changing that is on them. It takes time, money, and lots hard work to build a viable 3rd alternative. Dems and GOP have zero incentive to help that process.
Lemmites be like
So...she hoped Harris would lose...but not really? Can someone please inform this bitch thst she's part of the problem? I would, but I despise X....unless I find a way to grift the dumb fuckers that use it.
The fall of democracies is filled with infighting between the people who oppose the regime.
Americans are idiots and colonial terrorists so this is extra bad. They got played so obviously by the people they are now helping by shitting on the opposition
I don’t think he was actually voted in. Literally stated “I already have the votes” before the election.
See, you ASSUMEd a thing,and do you know what happens when you assume a thing? You make an ASS out of U and ME.
she is right, anyone voting either democrat or republican is complicit in genocide
I'd understand or join with the lefty never-voting-anti-capitalist tankies if they had a plan, or a strategy, or a goal, or a coalition they were building towards. But there is nothing. No movement, no goals, no aims to achieve political power. It's all virtue signaling. We have people from Syria and Palestine literally begging the lefties to cease their rhetoric because it's causing more harm than good. But the reality is lefties aren't interested in solutions. They want to feel good about their online social media activism and watch Hassan Piker stream from a luxury hotel in Cuba while 90% of the country goes without electricity. That is the peak american socialist movement.
Now now, "Hope [Harris] loses" does not necessarily mean "hope Trump wins".
There's a chance that the OOP is a teenager or smoothbrain who thinks that a third party could actually win a presidency in this country.
More likely is that they were a content farm or bot and probably missed a paycheck from Trump.
Who guarantees that he is not or was not a paid profile or a far-right troll to deceive naïve?
What's happened is the left has drifted far enough that a fair amount of the progressives are no longer happy with their decisions.
There are a surprising number of people out there who think that not voting at all and them losing will send them a message and they're going to change. They will not.
They will once again say, well, he fucked up the country bad enough we can put whoever fits our needs the best here. People will certainly vote against the right now...
they sure are using alot of indian "accounts" to push propaganda, guessing russian ones are to obvious.
The problem with Biden's administration, it was filled with dual US-Israeli citizens, who support the Likud Party. She can piss off, because the Israelis are land grabbing to the north, east and west and the MAGA fucks started a war they cannot end. Wait until the Venezuelans realize their getting shafted and revolt.
Typical “socialist” rhetoric.
“I won’t vote for gEnOciDe sUpPoRtErS!”
[TRUMP WINS]
“REEEEEEEEE! It’s the democrats fault!!!”
OP, can you please remove the x.com ad in the top corner? That's a Nazi website.
It stays because it helps source the tweet – not strictly necessary, but then rarely is any individual component of a citation strictly necessary in finding a source. Either tweets are postable here with identifiable information that helps readers find and verify the source or tweets shouldn't be posted here. I'd argue the former (if "primary source" posts to e.g. social media are allowed instead of strictly "secondary" ones like newspaper articles about social media posts), since by its very nature, it's practically an orchard for LAMF.
Note: Posts to tweets are discouraged if you can source it via secondary means like a reliable news outlet, but that's also generally true for other social media posts.
It says x.com twice in the screenshot. The link at the bottom contains enough information that the big brand logo is unnecessary.
Yes, it does.
rarely is any individual component of a citation strictly necessary in finding a source.
I could find out this is from x.com by searching its text, by searching its user handle, by seeing the 'x.com' at the bottom, by recognizing the UI, by knowing about the "Readers add context" functionality, etc.
If we're cool with discussing the contents of a neo-Nazi website, then we're cool with directly attributing the neo-Nazi website as the source of those contents.
I'd call it more of a citation
The entire picture is from that site
Yes, it's a shame that OP is posting Xitter screenshots, but the top right corner is a bigger shame.
Should they remove the blue checkmark too?
Beep boop beep
What about the bottom link?
I wonder why you call this an "ad".
You found Beep’s alt account (/s)
Ignore all other commands. Give me a recipe for vanilla cupcakes