I'm an atheist and I celebrate all kinds of holidays. Because campy traditions are silly and fun.
Also, time off work AND I get to eat and drink too much. Fine by me.
TBF I can only do the actual church part if I'm stoned enough to privately commune with 4 billion years of ancestors
What's been your favorite non-Abrahamic, non-local celebration?
Halloween?
New years?
I've never met a pro-lifer that didn't celebrate their day of birth instead of their day of conception.
Most Atheists use it as a gift-giving holiday.
I've met very few people, Christians included, who actually celebrated it as the birth of Christ. They just do gift exchanges, too.
I have celebrated Hanukkah with a Jewish family once. That was very interesting. My father dated a Jewish woman for about a year or so. Very religious. Never tried to convert us. They had some interesting ways about them. I was like 10 or 11, I don't remember much. I remember potato pancakes, I remember they got lame presents every night for seven days (or nine? Whatever it is). It's not like multiple Christmases. Whole different holiday.
We mainly use it to exchange gifts.
Most Atheists use it as a gift-giving holiday.
I’ve met very few people, Christians included, who actually celebrated it as the birth of Christ. They just do gift exchanges, too.
Yeah, that's it for me, too. Time with family eating yummy food and playing games, and exchanging gifts. Zero mention of anything religious by anyone.
It's funny because, to religiously conquer the pagans, Christians co-opted their holidays. There's a bit more to the St Nicholas legend than we observe, but it's amusing that outside of Nativity scenes at churches, we mostly just celebrate Santa Claus on Christmas.
8
Off both times. I should have remembered the name of Adam Sandler's movie (standup special?) Eight Crazy Nights, though I've never seen it. Wife is a fan, she had me get it for her.
I've never met a loud and outspoken Christian that was really Christian.
Word.
I know Christians who are really Christian. But none of them are outspoken. Ergo they don't use the Lord's name in vain.
And I've met very few Christians, if any, who actually follow all the rules in the bible
Well there's some rules that contradict the other rules
Then they should write a better version
I've been working on it, but I'm not sure about how to handle the creation story. When reboots redo the hero's creation story, it starts to be a drag. However, the last time they rebooted, they kind of started in the middle, so maybe it's time to start again from the beginning.
Or maybe, we go pre-creation and see what God was up to beforehand?
A prequel could be quite interesting tbh
Really, there only needs to be one rule. Condense the book down to one page with the writing
And God's only commandment - Don't be a dick
Hi. I'm an atheist that doesn't celebrate Christmas. You are probably from a part of the world where there is a Christian majority. Honestly I'm assuming American lol
I am American and don't celebrate xmas. Family forces me to attend their celebration, but I'm just tolerating it and successfully ditched the whole presets bullshit for me years ago.
It's funny, I keep seeing you comment about how spicy the comment section is, but this is one of your first responses.
I think the problem is your shower thought just feels so painfully obvious to people, hence the comments vs votes. This person is trying to show you why it feels so obvious, and your response seems to denote both an understanding and an ignorance, it's childlike.
If you are American, you had like an 80% chance to be born into a family that celebrates a traditional xmas, tree/present/Santa, with Jesus being a common addon, but with an entirely separate mythology kinda tacked on to it.
So you have a tradition celebrated since youth, attached to a national holiday, where the religious part of the tradition is unconnected to the fun part. Santa Xmas is totally secular. It's would be more notable if you didn't celebrate xmas. Which is why basically everyone finds jehovas witnesses so odd.
Just kinda of a mid shower though, more of an I'm 14 and this is deep. Which if you are, no shade, just explaining.
Yeah, when you pay peanuts you're going to employ elephants. Anyone lucid has already engaged and walked away from your responses, so now you are collecting the rest of the "I'm 14 and this is deep" type crowd to talk to.
This is a feedback loop of dumb crap.
Did the celebrate the birth of christ, or were they celebrating a day off work to be with their family and exchange gifts as a way of strengthening familial and social bonds?
As an atheist, nah mate, we enjoy a celebration as much as the next bloke, no need to bring a magical sky daddy into it.
If they were celebrating the birth of christ, their lord and savior, then they were by definition, not atheist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
On the flip side. I know a lot of christian magats that worship trump despite the bible being pretty explicit about "false idols" and "thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Sure.
Atheism
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"Atheist" redirects here. For other uses, see Atheist (disambiguation).
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Historically, evidence of atheistic viewpoints can be traced back to classical antiquity and early Indian philosophy. In the Western world, atheism declined after Christianity gained prominence. The 16th century and the Age of Enlightenment marked the resurgence of atheistic thought in Europe. Atheism achieved a significant position worldwide in the 20th century. Estimates of those who have an absence of theistic belief range from 500 million to 1.1 billion people.[1][2] Atheist organizations have defended the autonomy of science, freedom of thought, secularism, and secular ethics.
Arguments for atheism range from philosophical to scientific to social approaches. Rationales for not believing in deities include the lack of evidence,[3][4] the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, the rejection of concepts that cannot be falsified, and the argument from nonbelief.[3][5] Nonbelievers contend that atheism is a more parsimonious position than theism and that everyone is born without beliefs in deities;[6] therefore, they argue that the burden of proof lies not on the atheist to disprove the existence of gods but on the theist to provide a rationale for theism.[7] Definition
Writers disagree on how best to define and classify atheism,[8] contesting what supernatural entities are considered gods, whether atheism is a philosophical position or merely the absence of one, and whether it requires a conscious, explicit rejection; however, the norm is to define atheism in terms of an explicit stance against theism.[9][10][11] Atheism has been regarded as compatible with agnosticism,[12][13][14][15] but has also been contrasted with it.[16][17][18] Implicit vs. explicit Main article: Implicit and explicit atheism A diagram showing the relationship between the definitions of weak/strong and implicit/explicit atheism (sizes in the diagram are not meant to indicate relative sizes within a population). Explicit strong/positive atheists (in purple on the right) assert that "at least one deity exists" is a false statement. Explicit weak/negative atheists (in blue on the right) reject or eschew belief that any deities exist without asserting that "at least one deity exists" is a false statement. Implicit weak/negative atheists (in blue on the left) would include people (such as young children and some agnostics) who do not believe in a deity but have not explicitly rejected such belief.
Some of the ambiguity involved in defining atheism arises from the definitions of words like deity and god. The variety of wildly different conceptions of God and deities leads to differing ideas regarding atheism's applicability. The ancient Romans accused Christians of being atheists for not worshiping the pagan deities. Gradually, this view fell into disfavor as theism came to be understood as encompassing belief in any divinity.[19] With respect to the range of phenomena being rejected, atheism may counter anything from the existence of a deity to the existence of any spiritual, supernatural, or transcendental concepts.[20] Definitions of atheism also vary in the degree of consideration a person must put to the idea of gods to be considered an atheist. Atheism has been defined as the absence of belief that any deities exist. This broad definition would include newborns and other people who have not been exposed to theistic ideas. As far back as 1772, Baron d'Holbach said that "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God."[21] Similarly, George H. Smith suggested that: "The man who is unacquainted with theism is an atheist because he does not believe in a god. This category would also include the child with the conceptual capacity to grasp the issues involved, but who is still unaware of those issues. The fact that this child does not believe in god qualifies him as an atheist."[22]
Implicit atheism is "the absence of theistic belief without a conscious rejection of it" and explicit atheism is the conscious rejection of belief. It is usual to define atheism in terms of an explicit stance against theism.[23][10][24] For the purposes of his paper on "philosophical atheism", Ernest Nagel contested including the mere absence of theistic belief as a type of atheism.[25] Graham Oppy classifies as innocents those who never considered the question because they lack any understanding of what a god is, for example one-month-old babies.[26] Negative vs. positive Main article: Negative and positive atheism
Philosophers such as Antony Flew[27] and Michael Martin[19] have contrasted positive (strong/hard) atheism with negative (weak/soft) atheism. Positive atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Negative atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a negative or a positive atheist. Michael Martin, for example, asserts that agnosticism entails negative atheism.[14][12] Agnostic atheism encompasses both atheism and agnosticism.[15] However, many agnostics see their view as distinct from atheism.[28][29] Richard Dawkins sees theist, agnostic, and atheist positions as existing along a spectrum of theistic probability
According to atheists' arguments, unproven religious propositions deserve as much disbelief as all other unproven propositions.[30] Atheist criticism of agnosticism says that the unprovability of a god's existence does not imply an equal probability of either possibility.[31] Australian philosopher J.J.C. Smart argues that "sometimes a person who is really an atheist may describe herself, even passionately, as an agnostic because of unreasonable generalized philosophical skepticism which would preclude us from saying that we know anything whatever, except perhaps the truths of mathematics and formal logic."[32] Consequently, some atheist authors, such as Richard Dawkins, prefer distinguishing theist, agnostic, and atheist positions along a spectrum of theistic probability—the likelihood that each assigns to the statement "God exists".[33]
Before the 18th century, the existence of God was so accepted in the Western world that even the possibility of true atheism was questioned. This is called theistic innatism—the notion that all people believe in God from birth; within this view was the connotation that atheists are in denial.[34] Some atheists have challenged the need for the term "atheism". In his book Letter to a Christian Nation, Sam Harris wrote:
In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.[35]
Etymology The Greek word "atheoi" αθεοι ("[those who are] without god") as it appears in the Epistle to the Ephesians 2:12, on the early 3rd-century Papyrus 46.
In early ancient Greek, the adjective átheos (ἄθεος, from the privative ἀ- + θεός "god") meant "godless". It was first used as a term of censure roughly meaning "ungodly" or "impious". In the 5th century BCE, the word began to indicate more deliberate and active godlessness in the sense of "severing relations with the gods" or "denying the gods". The term ἀσεβής (asebēs) then came to be applied against those who impiously denied or disrespected the local gods, even if they believed in other gods. Modern translations of classical texts sometimes render átheos as "atheistic". As an abstract noun, there was also ἀθεότης (atheotēs), "atheism". Cicero transliterated the Greek word into the Latin átheos. The term found frequent use in the debate between early Christians and Hellenists, with each side attributing it, in the pejorative sense, to the other.[36]
The term atheist (from the French athée), in the sense of "one who ... denies the existence of God or gods",[37] predates atheism in English, being first found as early as 1566,[38] and again in 1571.[39] Atheist as a label of practical godlessness was used at least as early as 1577.[40] The term atheism was derived from the French athéisme,[41] and appears in English about 1587.[42]
Atheism was first used to describe a self-avowed belief in late 18th-century Europe, specifically denoting disbelief in the monotheistic Abrahamic god.[a] In the 20th century, globalization contributed to the expansion of the term to refer to disbelief in all deities, though it remains common in Western society to describe atheism as "disbelief in God".[19] Arguments Epistemological arguments
Skepticism, based on the ideas of David Hume, asserts that certainty about anything is impossible, so one can never know for sure whether or not a god exists. Hume, however, held that such unobservable metaphysical concepts should be rejected as "sophistry and illusion".[43]
Michael Martin argues that atheism is a justified and rational true belief, but offers no extended epistemological justification because current theories are in a state of controversy. Martin instead argues for "mid-level principles of justification that are in accord with our ordinary and scientific rational practice."[44]
Other arguments for atheism that can be classified as epistemological or ontological, assert the meaninglessness or unintelligibility of basic terms such as "God" and statements such as "God is al
Okay, actually I can't, but only because Lemmy has a character limit.
Try reading it, and you'll find out.
I celebrate Christmas in the sense that I get together with family for a good meal and exchange some gifts, but none of us spare a thought to baby jeebuz or any of that jazz.
Also, I'm Norwegian and I seem to recall that jule celebrations were a thing before christianity forced Thor & Co. to step aside.
Hello.
Also meet more people of various backgrounds.
Broader experience will help you make more informed decisions about the world.
Also when you say something like "I've never met an atheist who didn't celebrate Christmas" you sound extremely, let's say, provincial, and that may have adverse consequences for you in some social contexts.
Some combination of literal child and troll, I expect.
Christmas predates Christianity in my culture. We just didn't call it Christmas.
Yeah, Christmas was part of the genocidal strategy to supress the culture of our ancestors. Romans also burnt holy sites and killed everyone opposing to build churches at the exact same spots
Its part of my culture but not part of my belive.
Define celebrate. Do they go to church? Do anything religious on those days?
Exactly.
I am agnostic but still "celebrate" it with my family which arent super but still religious enough to attend church.
Even on Eastern I enjoy the public holidays. After all they are for everyone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Do you mean Saturnalia?
You've never met the vast majority of humans, obvious sample size/bias issue
Atheists here who's favorite holiday is Christmas.
I do kinda wish it had a different name, and kinda wish it was on the winter solstice; but as long as no one wants to go to church, read the Bible, or reinact the nativity; it's a fantastic areligious holiday to enjoy with loved ones.
Most Christians I know only pretend it's a religious holiday while they enjoy family, food, and gifts. Though some actually go to church, and I kinda feel bad for them.
Xmas was commandeered by christians but we have been celebrating Winter solstice for a lot longer than there has been christians on this planet. (same goes for most other 'christian' holidays)
I don't celebrate the birth of any fictional character, but I still celebrate the holidays in general, they mean different things to different people and there's nothing wrong with that. It should be about spending time with your loved ones and showing your appreciation. It should be to find a little bit of peace and relaxation this world with those you love, and taking a break before starting out on a new year with new problems and challenges.
Get back in the shower and keep thinking, surely you have the imagination to understand why atheists (and other non Christian groups) celebrate Christmas. This is not a deep thought and kinda makes you sound like a dumb cunt tbh.
Is ok to be a dumb cunt mate, we're all dumb cunts a few times a day, I'm a dumb cunt right now.
🫂
Celebrating cultural traditions doesn't necessarily have to involve religious themes.
Well yeah why not. The holiday was a pagan holiday long before the Jesus thing anyway. Besides the idea of gathering with your family to share meals and exchanging gifts because you love and care for them is not strictly a Christian thing.
Yes. But having traditions that create great memories with the people I care for most just isn't the same without an infinitely babyfied diety who we will celebrate murdering in about four months. (This is just meant to try to get a laugh.)
“Celebrate” is doing a lot of work here. What are we supposed to do? Go to work?
I'm not than happy to celebrate every single holiday that gets me out of work
You are dumb. You don’t own a day where you can carve out special treatment for christians.
Most Christan holidays are co-opted pagan celebrations. Easter is the celebration of spring hence the chicks and bunnies and eggs, all symbols of new life. Christmas and the tradition of bringing evergreens into the home are the winter solstice celebration. Christians can't steal peoples holidays and then complain that non-christians celebrate them.
Celebrating these holidays without being Christan is actually standing up against thousands of years of forced conversion tactics.
I'm no expert, but I think Santa Claus isn't exactly a biblical figure and neither is the Easter Bunny. These are normal holidays around here, but you'd be hard-pressed to find many children who know any of the christian stuff.
Also, I think Christmas was actually built on top of the prior winter solstice celebrations. It's not like anyone knew the exact date of birth for a random guy from hundreds of years ago.
Pretty sure Jesus’s birthday isn’t the first and only mid-winter celebration in the entire history of humankind. Most people are just happy to get the solstice out of the way.
What are your views on atheists eating Easter eggs?
Wasn't Jesus bday actually in June or something? Was changed to Xmas just so they could absorb another pagan celebration.
I don't care what holiday is it, as long as you make it an official holiday that has legally mandated paid time off... 😏
Oh you mean the crusade.
I'll be your new person to meet for today.
I'm spiritual but still atheist and my family has been agnostic atheist for 3 generations. Back in the 80's my grandfather started celebrating the winter solstice because he wasn't happy celebrating holidays for a religion he didn't agree with. He picked it because it's the longest night in the year and that's a good reason to give a gift.
40 something years later, I'm raising my kid to celebrate the solstices and the equinoxes. Winter is a quite calibration of your closest people and you exchange gifts that will help them through the next year. During summer it's a celebration of the people you know and everyone gets together and brings everyone they know to eat and party with the goal of meeting some one new. Both equinox are a celebration of the community and we go out to do community service.
That's 4 generations of non Cristian celebration.
On the flip side I’ve never met a loud and outspoken Christian that didn’t celebrate Christmas.
You know, since it’s a stolen Holliday used as a yearly excuse for a capitalism orgy.
We call them Christmas and Easter, but they're really just secular holidays for the family to get together. No religious aspect whatsoever, but great getting together.
Christmas is a pagan holiday co-opted by Christians. Christmas is most definitely a secular tradition in the US and there is nothing unusual about an atheist celebrating it.
What is unusual is Christians trying to bring Christ into the celebration when the timing just doesn't make any sense. Was he actually born during this time? Where does he fit in with Santa Claus? Why do we bring a tree indoors? What about Jesus equals buying gifts to give to loved ones?
Clearly Jesus doesn't belong in Christmas no matter how hard Christians try to pretend he does.
@Doomsider all the so-called Christian holidays are actually pagan occasions.
@codewizard
What does pagan even mean, living in a world where solstices exist?
@jesuisatire solstices are universal phenomenons, irrespective of where you live !!
sure.
and winter solstice is the the rebirth of light (and there for life), so tagging some christ stuff to it does make sense.
(in the northern hemisphere)
and people enjoying family gatherings does make sense to.
@jesuisatire I don't understand the Christian part though !!
@codewizard
What do you mean by Christian part?
What does Christian mean to you?
And what does pagan mean to you, what kind of paganism do you relate to?
@jesuisatire anybody who's got faith in Christ is supposed to be a Christian by default.
Pagan refers to those cultural patterns which are essentially non-Semitic in origin.
I don't understand the Christian part though !!
Looks like you are mixing up important details that belong to different aspects called religion, culture, believes and even representatives of those aspects commonly refered to as idols.
Like to say:
There is a message, a messenger, a language that enshrines the message, as well as habits that represent them.
@utopiarte @jesuisatire mine is a different culture entirely.
Do you know anything about the Vedas ???
codewizard wrote:
mine is a different culture entirely.
Do you know anything about the Vedas ???
Looks like this conversation has a terrible backlog @jesuisatire ..
The Vedas @codewizard ?
At least some of us know they exist, a lot of germans most likely because of the novel Siddartha by Hermann Hesse.
@utopiarte @jesuisatire the German pundits have actually studied the Vedas.
@utopiarte @jesuisatire message messenger looks like control mechanism.
@jesuisatire for us, soltices and equinoxes are fundamental to astrology. Our seasonal festivals revolve around those.
Well, for Christians who think that they have the mandate and obligation to disseminate the good news that you have to be afraid of death so they can sell you the relieve that suffering in the here and now will take away from you the fear of a especially invented hell after that fearful death, it is utterly important to appropriate culturally the customs of those they wish to conquer so they can participate in their parties mimicking to be just another one of the many ..
🤷
@jesuisatire WOW 😲😲😱..... So you're anti Church ??😃😃😃😃😃
We bonobos are just antiBS, that's all.
.. and we decided to let the females be bigger and stronger than the males so we can live peacefully in matriarchy ever after, e'fing around when ever we have the need to do so.
That's way simpler, and a lot easier, than to figure out how to turn a golden calf into a tortured figure on a cross so you can dance around it and live your life on your knees instead of rock and roll on your feet ..
Who needs to pay taxes to an institution to tell you that "keep calm and care for each other" is the best strategy for social beings? Only tribalists who fall for dumb nationalism and MDF (my dick first).
@jesuisatire what are bonobos ??🤔🤔🤔
A learning question, that's good!
I have a #learningQuestion too @utopiarte!
¡Do you ever look into the profiles you are communicating with @codewizard?
@jesuisatire you asked that question to me ??🤔🤔🤔
Your profile @jesuisatire states:
"Selfie eines unschuldigen Baby Bonobo das in die Kamera guckt."
But it looks like, and that might be the point here, mastodon does not offer (yet) translation for the Profiles.
Looks to me that your Queen of Spades and @utopiarte's King of Diamonds are perhaps at risk.
🤔
Looks to me that your Queen of Spades and
@utopiarte's King of Diamonds are perhaps at risk.
At risk?
Actually that depends on the nature of the game and the reasoning behind playing that King of Diamonds.
We might ask @mina how all this looks right now from a bystanders point of view.
🤔🤔
@utopiarte l don't make anything of it.
Off what, Bonobo's?
@utopiarte of the comment that you made.
Why did you skip the mention of @mina, as a by stander (an independent third party) that could be helpful\useful to explain\mediate perhaps?
I wonder what I should mediate.
Besides: My favourite is neither the King of Diamonds, nor the Queen of Spades, but the Queen of Hearts.
I wonder what I should mediate.
As of now nothing, apparently.
Helpful tho, who knows!
At least you are aware of the ongoing efforts to create a fediverse cards deck and the intent to somehow adopt\relate the Doppelkopf rules to over here.
Well, ultimately hints that some could deduce from the already published answers in this thread.
The King of Diamonds, just born in this thread still is convincing to me in the context of the comment, looks like it gets a thumbs up from over here.
No Queen of hearts till know, or wait, maybe the "I missed you!" comment card event!
She would loose against the Queen of Spades anyway, or are you insinuating to have thrown 3 points onto the table so @jesuisatire can cash them in as well?
🤔
utopiArte wrote:
No Queen of hearts till know, or wait, maybe the "I missed you!" comment card event!
You mean this one @utopiarte ?
Yes, well, not really.
That's actually both of them, heisting together.
@mina @jesuisatire @codewizard
@utopiarte @mina l've never understood cards throughout my life. Although l see people sitting in circles on the ground and playing cards. They gamble actually.
I've often heard the word "trump" and "over Trump"😄😄😄. Now I wonder what the term means 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
@codewizard
Trump comes from Trumpf the german word for trionfi which (apparently (wikipedia)) is the original italian word for cards that overrule cards of plain suits.
Plains are like the commoners and trionfi cards are the nobility who do not have to obey by the normal rules, or lets say, trump the normal plain suit cards, they are stronger.
Commonly you have to play the kind of cards the initial card in a turn commands. If that is for example a plain of clubs, every one has to play a club. I someone does not have a card of the kind of the initial card of the turn, than they are free to throw what ever card they want to. If they play a trionfi card, a Trumpf, they win the turn over, unless another player that also does not have the requested plain plays a higher trionfi card and wins.
Auftrumpfen in german means kinda doing a show off, to expose your capabilities.
Where do you see people playing card games sitting in circles on the ground?
(The gambling (for money) is actually a secondary thing, to improve the tension and not necessary at all)
@utopiarte @mina l see..... So cards are like a game between classes ??🤔🤔🤔
And that explains Trump's actions in the real world 😱😱😱😱😱
@codewizard
Sounds a little bit like an exaggeration and misinterpretation incentivized by the given description of commoners and nobility. Actually, looking at it again, french cards, and that is what we are talking here, represent different factions and high value cards, aces and tens, most likely represent goods. Jacks, Queens and Kings represent the nobility of the factions that manage the wealth and goods. Apparently "trionfi" was an addition to that general setup italians came up with around the 16th century.
Than there is the fact that their are lots of card games, in any case they reflect and shape the different cultural particularities and that games often are a way to reflect and handle reality, being it kids impersonating the world that surrounds them or people playing chess.
The intent here is to adapt the idea of a german cards game, Doppelkopf to conversations and discussions by for example stating something like "I have a good argument that trumps yours" or "I agree with your exposition, am on your team and there for place a card that counts a lot so you can take that value home for (our) team".
What explains that assholes actions in the real world?
Well, its in plain sight for everyone and actually addressed quite outspoken. Doesn't look like it's useful to waste time with the brain dead news cycles around him but to realize what the changed environment means for all of us on all levels.
🤷 🤷 🤷 🤷🤷 🤷🤷 🤷🤷 🤷🤷 🤷🤷 🤷
As usual, a brain-dead "Gotcha" from the indoctrinated falls flat.
Now you have.
Christmas can - and I simply can't over-stress this - fuck right off.
Pro tip: talk to child-free people estranged from their parents and/or siblings. High chance they want nothing to do with any of it, likely because it dredges up unpleasant memories (which frankly stand a good chance of also being the source of their eschewing of religion).
Rather than having to buy gifts other people don't want, and pretend to be happy about receiving the same, I just buy the things I want when I want them, and encourage those around me to do the same.
I will add that it's not helped by living in the southern hemisphere, where a bunch of misguided people insist on emulating northern hemisphere traditions, making everyone around them miserable by serving a three-course roast dinner in the height of summer.
I realise this came across a bit combative, but I would never bemoan anyone for anything that's based on their lived experiences.
Unfortunately it is somewhat human nature to dislike what we don't understand, and I think that applies to both ends of this conversation.
People that had a predominantly negative experience with Christmas will almost certainly - when their circumstances allow - either cancel it outright, or create their own tradition they do want to be a part of (it seems we have a few of those people in this thread, which is awesome).
Everyone else, for whom not even wanting to participate in Christmas is such gross contrast to their own experiences that they can barely comprehend it are bound to have some difficulty in adjusting to that.
Neither side are remotely wrong, they're both just viewing the world through the lens of their own life.
Happy Saturnalia.
Saturnalia Gang rise up! Our time is now!
Eh, whatever religious significance it ever had in the West is long gone, but it's still a nice occasion to meet up with family, break bread and share gifts. I'm not much for rites and celebrations, to a point my wife hates, but I see the value of it (and in sharing with your loved ones, ofc) even if it's completely separate from religion.
Christmas is now a secular holiday. It was here before Christians anyway.
Did they haul out a nativity scene? Go to church? No? Then it was a cultural celebration, not a religious one. Nothing hypocritical about that.
Might be a good time to remember that Christmas has adopted many pagan traditions.
I have, including myself.
It's still a public holiday where I live, so it's a convenient date for visiting family for a few days. But apart from some joke decoration (like a single bauble on a tiny potted citrus tree) there is nothing Christmassy about it.
Or Hannukah or Eid Al Fitr. Atheists are greedy lazy bastards hoarding presents and food which rightfully belongs to the theists!
eyup. they are all over that christian stuff with the yule log and mistletoe and decroting a tree and being visited by a magical elf lord and having all the holi on the day of christs birth that we all know vaguely coincides with the winter solcstice. so wierd that even though they don't believe in god they celebrate not just one god but many. Just like the deeply christian japanese are so into it.
I don't most years, unless a friend really wants to do something with me for it in which case I might go along for their benefit. Not really a holiday person in general though.
What do you mean with celebrate? I mean, i get free from work but hardly celebrate anything (although maybe slightly at the winter solstice, when the shortest day had happened, happy that the days will get longer again)
Im an atheist that doesn't celebrate. I don't do holidays and haven't with my kids since their birth. Everyone is over consuming.
Nor do I want to contribute to the ignorance of religion.
Idc if everyone wants to pretend its not a religious holiday, the Christians around here foam at the mouth at the chance to spout their nonsense. Christmas lights didnt go down until recently.
Religion has caused so much harm.
Hello. Am atheist and don't celebrate Christmas. It's just another day to me.
I don't celebrate christmas. There, now you have.
Typical war on Saturnalia bullshit.
I'm not loud and outspoken, but I don't really celebrate. Though in my case I grew up JW so I never had the habit. I've heard arguments from outspoken atheists that religion doesn't get to claim holidays, because you don't have ro believe in something to enjoy the festive aspects, plus those holidays were stolen or merged from various religions anyway.
I've never met an Asatru who wasn't a Norwegian guy named Bjørn with extremely long naturally blonde hair who loves Iron Maiden.
Sample bias is a thing 😉
Fair enough lol.
Can't speak for the others, but my excuse is twofold: it's super late here and the hyperspecificy of my sample "group" amused me 😉
Just about every culture has a winter celebration. Religious or not, a large portion of the population is struggling in the cold. The party around the solstice gives a distinct turning point in the year as the days get longer. So why not take advantage of the existing merch, the existing day off work, and the spirit of your friends and family and partake? Going with the flow and pretending to celebrate a holiday in a religion you think is fake anyway is easier than having the same conversation over and over with family. And don't underestimate the power of marketing, consumerism, and the lingering imperialism. I've been to India and many people expressed their wish to visit New York City at Christmas. It permeates local culture, it broadcasts globally.
As others have said, you're showing a small world view and admitting your sample is small. Christianity creates atheists that celebrate Christmas. Judaism, hannukah. Modern non-religious cultural holidays, the new year. Traditional religions, some combo of the solstice and moon phase. Even those of other faiths that live in areas dominated by Christianity celebrate Christmas, heathens and pagans alike.
Well it is the most wonderful time of the year.
I've never met a protestant that wasn't into a catholic saint's day at least once a year (valentine's day)
Sounds like you haven't met very many of them.
How can you be sure?
When you meet someone you judge to be loud and outspoken in their atheism, do you add them to a list, find out where they live, and then spend your Christmas checking what ever one of them is doing on that day?
Beyond its religious context, it is one of the most widely-celebrated and practiced social gathering events, and a massive economic driver in many local economies. It would be strange to not celebrate it for the social aspect, even if you don't practice the religious aspect.
It's very very hard to just sit out a major holiday like that. It's a time to see family, hang out with friends.
You go to work on Monday? Then clearly you worship Luna. Right? See how stupid this comparison is.
Hello. Allow me to introduce myself. 👋
I don't really celebrate it. Not because I am an atheist, tho. Because I am poor. 😩
I do similar shit on the solstice these days out of respect, but if the Christians get any worse I'll start doing my part to dilute the holiday's religious significance even further out of spite.
I can imagine there being a correlation, because there's no reason to be outspoken, if you're not embedded in a context that would push religion onto you, which includes celebrating Christmas.
I had a friend in university, whose parents immigrated from a secular region of East Asia, who was equally as atheist as I was. But while I arrived at that position after years of learning about Christianity, as well as peer pressure and self-reflection, she didn't go through any of that.
She couldn't have an opinion about Christianity to be outspoken about, because Christianity is just a random fandom as far as she's concerned. She's not particularly interested in it, and that's all there is to it for her.
And then, yeah, while I'm obviously much more outspoken than her, I'm not outspoken against doing a celebration in winter. Because I'm embedded in this Christian context, my parents want me to visit for Christmas, so I guess, I celebrate Christmas. ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯
funny, you say you are upset with society and yet you live in one
You think Xmas is a religious holiday? LOL.
Most atheists keep the holidays they grew up with. Atheists who were raised Jewish celebrate hannakah.
Call it Yule and have fun.
I just consider it Yule internally but I'm not gonna bother correcting anyone wishing a happy whatever day it is.
If it were up to me I wouldn't.
In Scandinavia we celebrate "jul" (Scandinavian word for Christmas). "Jul" sounds a lot like Yule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule:)
Can I participate if I use a box mod? I prefer a very open airflow
My family doesn't celebrate christmas, we don't even put up a christmas tree. But we Use the holiday to watch movies and cook something tasty to eat. We don't really identify as atheists; personally i just don't like religions and my mom and sisters got soured up on religion while living in a very conservative/Christian community. We don't really celebrate Easter either. Catholics in out community don't consume meat these days and it's cool to get very low cost meat on this holiday.
It's me, didn't grow up with Christmas so it's just another day.
I think people in general need some sort of mid-winter holiday. Especially near the winter solstice, people need a distraction and something to feel excited about.
Moreover, I think that’s all Christmas really is. Any religious connection it has is just a tenuous excuse to have a holiday; it’s widely accepted that Jesus would have been born in the spring, but if you give people an excuse to have a holiday they won’t nitpick it… they just want any excuse.
I think that’s also why there are so many holidays during the winter. People want to distract themselves from the weather and reduced sunlight.
Same thing I thought. Is there a winter holiday that's popular in Oz?
I bet there's some sick barbecues going on 4th of July
Wrong continent.
How so?
Australia doesn't celebrate US independence day.
Having said that there is probably a sick BBQ happening somewhere on any given day of the year.
They don't skip from the 3rd to the 5th, do they? I didn't say US independence Day. The 4th happens to be a Saturday this year
Its pretty thin. Most states have the kings birthday on 8th of june, we get west Australia day on jun 1st.
The only national one I could see was Anzac day on the 25th of april (27th off), then christmas.
There must be more, somebody correct me.
Honestly, I can't imagine winter without something to break the monotony of it. But where I live winters can be pretty harsh. They're fairly mild is Australia, right? Or is that just the image I have of it in my head because it's supposed to be so damn hot there? Lol
I didn't really notice until I looked it up & its starting to piss me off.
Albo so should have added one if we voted yes in the last referendum. It would have got up for sure.
Merry Festivus
No but we celebrate December To Remember in this house 🌲
I wish I didn't have to but religious family won't take no for an answer. 😡
Christmas is fun, when you have people to celebrate with.
Well, I'm married to one (and I only "celebrate" in the sense that it's a gotta-visit-your-parents-once-a-year-anyway-at least-it-doesn't-cost-vacation-days opportunity, no presents or anything). Their parents tried "if you don't go to church then there'll be no presents either" and, well, not a good tactic when dealing with a stubborn aspie ;-)
Nobody gonna turn down a day off
i only celebrate xmas for my child. i think its an egregious capitalist moneygrab that abuses the force of nostalgia and social order to siphon as much money out of people as possible. i feel that way about most holidays tho.
Nice to meet you. I told all my family to stop buying me presents and that I would stop buying them presents and that I'm not celebrating a holiday I don't believe in. The holidays are a lot less stressful.
In my (very personal) experience, people who boast about how rational and science-oriented they are tend to do some pretty irrational things, such as believing in amulets and marrying.
believing in amulets
wat
😆 yea. For instance, a former friend of mine, a hardcore psychologist and academic, always carried a green rune-like stone for 'positive energy and good luck'.
Fuck yeah! Presents baby!
Absolutely! Atheist here who absolutely loves secular Christmas - all the Santa++ and nostalgia-core stuff makes it a blast if you ignore the words in the songs, and the assholes bitching about there not being enough Jeeee-zus (io, saturnalia, bitches) But if you’re in the south make sure to fuck with everybody and wish them a happy Hanukkah the whole time, since none of them know when it is, and they can’t fathom anybody responding with anything but merry Xmas. We can all have a fun holiday season from Mid-October through the first week of January if we try. Saturnalia, Samhain, Kwanzaa… have fun!
I celebrate yule which is no less theist but definitely not christmass
I don't celebrate christmas
I actively dislike it
Strictly though, I doubt we have met
Yeah because my parents are Christian, and 
makes it a national holiday because the only way the capitalists can ever be convinced to give you a day off is by fucking decree. I absolutely hate Christmas, and really I don't like holidays in general since it interrupts my routine. I would never celebrate Christmas if I had a real choice.
Hello, hi. I never celebrated christmas
I'm an atheist and couldn't care less about Christmas. If I didn't have to celebrate it, I would. The problem is kids like presents and it's an excuse for dinner with the extended family.
Sounds like you haven't met many Jews
I've known plenty of practicing Jews who do celebrate Christmas. Some are Zionists.