Ditch SUV's
2mon 7d ago by programming.dev/u/chasteinsect in fuckcars from programming.dev
A thousand times this.
You used to look through the car in front of you to see the traffic in front of that car
To be fair, those cars with huge windows and great visibility handled rollover accidents by crushing the heads and necks of everyone in them.
Everyone driving SUVs to get to the office is dumb, but we don't want to go back to the days where the passenger cabin is the primary crumple zone either.
I remember being annoyed by a noticeable increase in the diameter of the cabin pillars of new cars that happened in the mid-late 00’s until I found out it’s because before then rollover protection was akin to prayer and new standards were the culprit for the change. Never complained about the reduced visibility since.
A young lady I worked with for a while was in a wreck years ago, before I met her, that resulted in a rollover in an older vehicle. It absolutely flattened the top of the cabin and pinned her inside with a badly shattered femur. From memory she said it was 4 hours before someone found her. Frankly; fuck that. Give me a new car with a bunch of safety considerations, thanks.
It's finally reasonable now that the cars are also watching for crossing vehicles. I have been a passenger in two different cars where the driver couldn't see a car they had to give way to at a roundabout as the A pillar completely blocked their view. Both would have collided had I not warned them
I don't get unhappy at people who stop unnecessarily at a roundabout, they might not have been able to see enough to be sure their way was clear
The factory window tint that's now standard is also incredible for making getting into a parked car on a hot day so much more bearable
Hey how stupid are the companies that make SUVs and the stupid people who built the office they work in. Actually, the idea of mechanized transport in general is sub human right!
Sure, driving to work in a city in an SUV is perfectly sensible, there's no other way.
I'm reading this sentence over and over. I'm beginning to think that the whole idea expressed is not particularly the sum of the words. I am an empath, btw
I hate the huge SUVs you see all over the roads, I have a 2021 Seat Leon FR PHEV hatchback, and around here the Kia EV9 is really popular.
While not as large as the stupid Ford F-150s, the EV9 is fucking huge.
The bonnet of an EV9 reaches almost up to my Leon's roof:
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/seat-leon-2020-5-door-hatchback-vs-kia-ev9-2023-suv/
It should be illegal to have a car with the headlight at the eye level of a driver of a standard WV Golf type car.
Bonnet height for private vehicles should be tightly regulated, they are a key contributer to lethality in car accidents yet increasing every year. I could imagine some steep increase in taxes (at least at purchase if nothing else) the further you deviate from a defined reasonable height. People do care about money, make lethal asocial choices more expensive.
I recently inherited an older Toyota Sienna and it's made me realize the current crop of 3 row SUVs and gigantic trucks is mostly sold to people who would absolutely love a minivan but just don't know it.
- I've got more cargo space than any truck I pass on the road made in this century
- I can fit my entire family plus drag along multiple friends and still have space for everyone's bags
- I can stand and walk through the interior if desired, even climbing to the far back from the front seat
- the sliding doors mean you can get in and out of the vehicle from any parking spot without a door in the way
- it's got a turn radius so short that I can do a full U-turn without reversing on any road or parking lot
- the high seat+low nose means I can nussle up within inches of a vehicle in front of me and still see the bumper
- the engine is has enough power to be comparable to some small locomotives.
I would never have bought a minivan on account of the gas milage (~20mpg just ain't great, and filling up the 25 gallon tank every week hurts the pocket book way more than my crossover that I got before I knew snow tires were a thing) but holy crap having this much space for people/stuff is incredible and I thoroughly enjoy playing bus/truck with it for all of my friends and family. For anyone who's considered a truck/3-row SUV to be a requirement, they need to do themselves a favor and try out a minivan
Trouble is, trucks are considered cool. Vans aren’t.
my work have a Hilux, it’s horrible to drive, it’s like being on a boat.
The commercials I see for Ram trucks make me cringe so hard I want to escape my skin. The fact that that marketing strategy must work is absolutely bananas to me.
Have you got a link to the one you’re talking about?
https://youtu.be/RJ1qV0izPw8like this
It's exactly why I just don't understand how these trucks are getting so fucking popular in Europe including in Germany! There's been a culture for many decades of the multifunction vans, Volkswagen multivan but also mercedes Sprinter, that one fiat model etc. They are incredibly versatile yet manageable vehicles. You need a bed to go camping : sure. Need to move a couch: no problem. Need to go somewhere with up to 7 people: gotcha! Park in tight spot in underground garage: mostly no issue... Compare with the stupid RAM etc trucks any of those vans on anything except "coolness" and the vans will always come out on top! They need an extra trailer to move a bicycle for gods sake. RAM and similar are just an enormous waste of space and fuel by comparison. These damn trucks need to be forbidden in EU asap. Minimum bonnet height/angle/visibility would be a good way to get there.
Like I said, I got the crossover before I understood what actually gets you safely across unplowed roads and unpaved farm driveways in the winter, but I at least knew just enough that I went for a crossover and not some disgusting oversized SUV or truck like plenty of other folks around me go for.
Now that it's been totaled (cosmetically) by hail damage it's simply not fiscally reasonable to replace it until it's entirely worn out so that's just a past decision that I'm going to have to live with for the next decade or so
Oh I see what you're saying! Does make me wonder how long until it cycles around again (assuming vehicle opinions do cycle around over time like fashion/design language preferences tend to)
WV
Ah, the Wolksvagen.
I drive a 2001 Toyota MR2. My 7 yo step daughter is taller than the entire car. When I'm next to most vehicles, the top of my car is below their windows.
Even drive thrus I'm usually lower than the window.
I love my little car, it's more capable than people think. I can easily get all the groceries I need, I've picked people up from the airport with their luggage in it. (I have a luggage rack on the back.) But I am concerned about people seeing me and am wary of it.
station wagon superiority
i need an electric station wagon goshdarnit!!
I really want a large electric station vagon, or even better an electric camper with decent range.
Hopefully its just a few years away.
Convertibles and coupes are also a dying breed.
this is the only new car I would consider buying. Of course, if they did offer it in my market, it would be full of touch screens and spyware, so I still wouldn't buy it
tbh this is why i am still following that "Slate" EV Truck
A truly minimalist vehicle that not only doesn't have a touch screen, it also doesn't have a stereo system, a cellular data uplink, gps navigation, or even power windows (you can technically get power windows if you want to opt for them but the others are Bring Your Own Tech)
of course, i'm not putting any money down until the day i can actually get in and drive one off the lot MYSELF... been too burned by vaporware products -_-
this thing though, at the very least, feels like it might still be LIKELY because it's a minimum viable product single purpose tool:
It is a MACHINE
that turns ELECTRICITY
into GOIN' SOMEWHERE
And That's It.
NO MORE, NO LESS!
I've been tempted by a FordRanger/MazdaB2000 over the years. still am
I have a wagon. It's rusted to shit. I should have taken better care of it, but I didn't realize how difficult it would be to replace when I bought it nearly 10 years ago. I just bought a slightly smaller wagon, with a little less towing and hauling capacity (both power and space and capability). a little pickup would be a good way for me to still be able to tow some slightly heavier loads safely, and have some of the "this is a just work vehicle" capability. but until then, we'll see how the smaller wagon handles the utility trailer. mostly just worried about braking, I'll have to lighten the max load a bit. this new car is a 2012 and basically rust free on the frame. I'm hoping to make it last until cars are inoffensive again. or at least far less offensive
I love mt Subaru Levorg (aside from its fuel consumption), I wish they made a new version with an electric drivetrain, instead they made the fuckin Solterra
I wish we got those in the US. I would trade my Outback for one in a heartbeat.
A 2000 outback as an ev would be amazing. I love the old Outbacks.
The Outback is cool too
I do love mine with the H6
Here in Australia there's the new Deepal E07 which is a weird and interesting concept. Looks like a sedan / truck / station wagon all in one.
It doesn't look like a wagon. There is no d pillar
VW ID7 was advertised as the new Passat stationwagen.
It ended up just being a standard sedan with more tacky LEDs on the outside starting at like € 70k
Yes! Me too. I think the only option at the moment is the MG5 here in Europe.
There’s also the Opel/Vauxhall Astra electric.
In the interim, the Toyota Corolla Touring Sports Hybrid is an excellent alternative. Versatile, spacious, fuel efficient, reliable, and dare I say quite attractive as well. The Toyota Prius V / α also deserves a shout out
Taycan Cross Turismo or Sport Turismo is incredible. It had better be for its sticker price tho. But they're probably great on the used market.
Back before any good electric vehicles I drove a station wagon and I was following all the EV news in the hope of converting it to electric (the V6 ecotech was thirsty).
There was an Australian consortium of car industry companies proposing that the Australian car industry could continue, specialising in electric muscle cars, and their demo was the sedan version of the same model as mine
That came to nothing
Then there was the US company AC Propulsion which was producing kits for converting a car to electric, but the lead acid batteries of then would prevent the car carrying a load
That got funded by Musk and became Tesla. Tesla has never made a wagon
I think Chinese Volvo sells a wagon, but I don't really need one anymore
My contribution - 1990 Volkswagen Vanagon. It is pretty large, but hilariously it's still smaller than a Chevy Tahoe lol.
And it probably fits more stuff!
Hi, it's me your long lost cousin!
The solution to cars being shit isn't old cars. It's bicycles and trains. Lots and lots and lots of trains and bicycles.
Not everyone can ride a bicycle. I propose a shitton of tricycles, too, maybe some powered by solar-battery assist for those that have other physical issue with pedaling.
It can probably be assumed that by "bicycle", they meant the full array of pedal-powered vehicles including variants with all the kinds of accessibility options.
Correct!
bicycle cars! best of both worlds... oh wait///
Velomobiles!
VeloSUV
Well that's not going to work either. Am I going to take a train to the grocery store? I'm not going to ride a bicycle to the grocery store I have to go up and down no less than three hills to get there. And these aren't small hills these are cardiac arrest inducing hills. So we do need cars we just need better ways to power them. And I don't mean batteries or gas.
We also need cities rebuilt so you can live close to what you need
I don't think we'll ever get rid of cars entirely but better city planning and better laws (depending on country) would help the reduction of cars in towns and cities. Make it more inviting for people to use alternative transport.
Most of my food shopping I do on my ebike. Little and often, but I happen to be in a town with nearby shops and quite good cycle route options. If we do use our car we usually do shopping at the end of a longer trip while returning home.
S-Pedelec, cargo bike, also, delivery services
I'm not doing a Costco run with a cargo bike and I'm not letting a delivery service pick out my produce.
That is of course your choice.
What I do is have heavy, bulky and durable stuff delivered in bulk. Cleaning supplies, toilet paper, tins and pickles, pasta, grains, legumes, things like that, you get the idea. This way the delivery cost amortises nicely.
Fresh things like vegetables and fruits I then buy myself using an ebike. Since it makes no sense to buy a lot of that at once (it'd only spoil) everything fits into a backpack.
Not the 90s, return to most people not owning a car
Make cars a choice again. Not a necessity!
And watch car ownership rates plummet. Turns out most people would gladly save their car money for something else if they could.
Hell yeah, I want to have a horse and a wagon
Proper public transportation and maybe a bicycle would mostly do it
I agree completely, I forgot to add a “/j” to the my other comment XD
Streetcars and tram lines everywhere!
I want rural people to have cars, and people who live in cities to not need one
Yes please!
Imagine a wagon with suspensions, it would be so sick (and i wouldn't get car wagon sick!)
Yes!
Finally a nuanced take in this community.
Cars wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t so oversized
“Fuck cars”, like “ACAB”, is often a quick tagline to a problem people understand is more nuanced. I don’t think so many people here would literally like all cars in existence to be crushed in a heap.
Literally most though. And I agree.
Public transport is the way to go.
Exceptions for delivery and trucks for construction, emergency services etc.
I left reddit because I was apparently too anti car for /r/fuckcars. If this community becomes like the reddit diluted sub where people were making car apology and justifying their use, I'm going to be very disappointed.
I would really love that all cars in existence be crushed into a heap. It's a fantasy and I know it won't happen. I can compromise. But if most could be crushed in a heap, that would be very great too.
people were making car apology and justifying
Lmfaooo, car apologists... can't stop picturing them as sentient things now, like Lightning McQueen at a press conference commenting on his recent scandal
I'd like that. Take however much chaos or inefficiency you think that day would cause, now imagine centuries of climate change.
Cars wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t so oversized
And if there weren't so many of them.
And if they didn't pollute so much
Edit: oh and the traffic accidents of course! But aside from their size, the required infrastructure, their number, the pollution, and the traffic accidents, cars are totally fine!
Edit 2: And the noise! But other than those things...
And noise
Speaking as an American: And if there were realistic options to driving.
And if Americans could drive. Majority limply hold the steering wheel with one hand, more concerned with looking cool than being in control of their 5 ton truck of entitlement.
We suffer from decades of society built up around the assumption that Cars Are The Way, and infrastructure/systems built around supporting cars. Zoning laws that separate business from homes, funding for supporting car infrastructure but not public transit, etc.
What we have, we have because people profited from ensuring cars were the solution most people moved to, then spending that money lobbying for numerous initiatives to ensure life was extremely inconvenient if you didn't have a car.
The solution is neither "accusing anti-car people of having so sense of what's going on", nor "accusing car people of blindly feeding into a bad system". It's gonna take holding industries and lobbyists to account, and sustained action by many concerned citizens across multiple venues.
Smaller cars will continue to kill a few billion animals yearly. They will also continue to kill around a million of humans every year, or about one human every 30 seconds.
The area covered by parking lots is mostly impervious and contributes to flooding as well as heat islands. Cars and parking lots make cities hotter and are worsening climate change. They also contribute to noise pollution. And no, electric cars are not better for noise because at highway speed they are as noisy as fossil fuel cars, and at low speed, their pedestrian warning system is also louder than fossil fuel cars.
I can be nuanced and understand that some people will always need a car, but most people in the world live in a town, a suburb, or a city, and the existence of the vast majority of those cars cannot be justified, whatever their size. Of course smaller cars are desirable. Electric cars are desirable A mix of electric and smaller would be better than status quo. But fewer cars is even more desirable.
The ugliest urban environments were designed around older cars, long before SUVs were the norm. Like you said, it's not just the car, but also the infrastructure it requires.
I'd honestly argue the infrastructure is the bigger issue because of all the other shit it influences as well. The poor infrastructure is a massive factor in both pedestrian and occupant safety, it makes cities spread out and inefficient, which causes all the buildings to also be leff effecient (more walls exposed rather than shared with other buildings etc).
The scale and lack of established alternatives makes it very difficult for even a small city to make minor changes without extreme push back (speed cameras and bike lanes were made illegal on province wide scale in my area, making it hard for a city to make improvements to cycling and speeding).
This hasn't even touched on the environmental factors, road noise, or maintaince budgets. The infrastructure is the biggest part of the problem, it has gone on long enough to let the SUV become so wide spread.
their pedestrian warning system is also louder than fossil fuel cars.
Hasn't been my experience, not that I disagree with your overall argument. Might differ by country and regulations etc.
It does vary depending on the manufacturer. Some are pretty quiet. I can't hear any Tesla "honking at low volume" when they pass by, but they probably just don't comply with new regulations. I find Hyundai to be the worst.
I live in a tower at the intersection of a busy street with traffic lights and I can hear the Hyundai EVs while sitting in my couch when the windows are open. In fact, they're open right now and I can clearly hear a Chevrolet EV decelerating before coming to a stop at the traffic light while I'm typing this. Toyota EVs are also pretty loud. Granted I can also hear loud and modified fossil fuel engines but most of them usually blend into a white noise.
When walking around the smaller streets of my neighbourhood, cars are going pretty slow and the noises of Hyundai, Chevrolet and Toyota EVs definitely stand out. It's weird because I'm a pedestrian. I don't have a car. I hate them. And I want them to be secure for pedestrians. But some of those warning systems are so loud and annoying that I wish they would just be quiet.
While I agree with your points, those of us in non metropolises need cars. Could we change to smaller cars and motorcycles and outlaw large trucks except for work? Yes.
I literally couldn't live without my cars. Because I have a house out of town. And towns here are an hour apart
I suspect you and I are saying "fuck cars" for very different reasons
Does it involve dragons?
Sight. Unzip.
No. Fuck cars.
Cars also have become bigger because of safety standards and regulations. Like even small cars like a Volkswagen Polo have become larger than their 80’s/90’s counterparts while the interior space didn’t increase that much.
Mazda MX-5/Miata current generation is about the same size (i think 5cm or so longer) as the original with modern safety features, it's possible to keep the footprint small
Still they could be smaller than they are now even with higher security requirements. Almost nobody needs a jeep, suv and van. Get some small cars that meet your requirements (besides compensating your erectile disfunction).
That doesn't explain ever expanding legroom and cabin space though. Why is every new generation of car an inch larger in each direction? The human body isn't on average getting taller at anywhere near the scale that cars are (though maybe we are getting a bit wider...)
My humble contribution
I mean this clearly shows how rectangular cars were back then, which is not great for collisions. They should at least stay round.
Also i read a discussion recently about how EVs are heavier due to their battery (and that's supposedly bad for pedestrians when they get into a crash with the car), and i immediately had to think of how enormously overweight SUV vehicles are today, and people don't complain enough about how enormously overweight SUVs are. In fact some people praise it and say that the heavy mass is good for the car-driver of the SUV because when they get into a crash, they'll take less damage (while everyone around them takes more, btw).
Really shows how arguments are twisted and turned around when it's the oil lobby that stands to profit from it.
In the case of SUVs, it's not primarily the oil lobby, it's car manufacturers. Put simply, they get to charge way more than the extra materials costs, for a "premium" vehicle. They're making bank out of this shit.
Yeah, "cost plus" pricing strategy (link) means that you make a fixed percentage of profit. When you sell a vehicle for $200, you make $20 in profit (at a 10% markup rate); But if you sell a $400 vehicle, you can make $40 in profit. It's crazy to me that they're not just selling the same $200 vehicle for $220 to make $40 profit ($180 manufacturing cost), but that's apparently the world we live in: People accept that companies can make more profit on higher-cost items.
It's worse than that actually.
It's not the same markup rate for a higher priced product. It's a higher markup rate. Crossovers in particular aren't much bigger than sedans and wagons. It's only actual SUVs with off-road equipment (lockable diffs, 2 speed transfer case, etc) that cost significantly more to manufacture than regular cars.
In a surprising reversal, the meme got it right (SUVs, 90s) and the title did not (SUV's).
Even when dealing with acronyms and numbers, " 's " indicates possession.
I don't see SUV's much, but I frequently see 90's (or other decades).
I do like my crumple zones, but would like modern cars to downsize like they did in the malaise era.
You'll never convince me that SUVs don't exist solely to sell what is effectively a minivan to deeply insecure men.
Deeply insecure men buy pickup trucks with hoods I can barely see over. SUVs and their perception of "safety", storage space, and ride height are why women are the primary purchasers.
AFAIK, they only sell full-size minivans in the US. I don't think I've seen any smaller ones since the Mazda 5 was discontinued.
The availability of crossovers in every size category means you can get the size you want.
SUVs exist because they cost roughly $1,000 more to make but consumers are willing to pay $3-4,000 for an SUV than a car. That's it. As always. The answer is our Lord, and savior - Money.
Ditch cars
I mean, it might be small but it got worse gas mileage, was heavier and would kill you in a fender Bender.
Turning a corner was like opening a submarine hatch. The brakes locked up causing more accidents and deaths. The suspension allowed the cars to roll easier. And if you were hit by one of them, you had a much higher chance of severe injury or death due to the lack of crumple zone.
People really need to stop looking for solutions to modern problems by looking to the past at the things that were the reason we ended up with the modern problems.
you're thinking 60s maybe, 90s cars had servos, crumple zones, even abs and tcs. maybe not the bottom tier ones, but it was def available
i was skimming the wiki page for crumple zone and they had simulations for the '86 vw polo
you're prolly right on the fuel efficiency though
Are you trying to say:
Wrong. 2005 was peak for cars.
It was always an american disease from my perspective. But it slowly infected Europe. Now every goddamn household drives a fucking huge ass minibus/truck/Fucking Hummer sized family wagon to work.
The worst part is when they take up so much parking space that the lots next to them are practically unusable because they fuck you, I needed this bigass milonstertruck for casual commotion.
Imagine if speed limits were variable based on a car's weight and lethality. Only small cars are allowed to go fast.
It'd be a difficult calculation to make. Bigger cars usually have better brakes and wider tires and in sporty trim levels of premium cars those can even help them stop faster than smaller cars.
Audi RS4 with it's sporty brakes, stops 1800 KG down from 140 km/h to 0 in 65 meters. Corolla 1.8 hybrid will do 130 to 0 in 66. Weighs about 1400 KG. Yes I cherrypicked it, but that's the point.
The extra weight actually helps grip so that cancels it out somewhat.
And yes, you'll be hurt more if you're hit by a bigger car at the same speed - but speed matters more (energy equals mass times velocity squared after all) and if the bigger car is able to stop faster, that means it's more survivable, assuming the driver or some driver aid system does indeed try and slow down the car - if not, then the heavier car is for sure more dangerous.
Bigger cars do WAY more damage. To pedestrians, the impact is higher on the body and far more lethal; and to other vehicles, well that's obvious.
I think you're right though, with simplified physics the additional traction does cancel out the additional momentum.
But wider tyres and expensive brakes actually don't make a difference. More contact with the ground just reduces the traction per area, total traction hasn't changed (assuming a smooth road). As for brakes, as long as they're strong enough to lock the wheel, that's enough. ABS helps a little, but expensive designs are only useful if you're in a race.
Yet, performance cars with wider tires and bigger brakes (that don't overheat and fade quickly) stop quicker than economy cars.
If they do that's probably softer tyres and aerodynamics. Maybe suspension and weight distribution. Many factors anyway.
Montana does this actually. Cars can do 60 for example, semis must go 50. Granted its not divided up for bro trucks and huge SUVs like it should be. Every state should. And speed limits slow down at night!
The proper big brodozers (F350 at least, not sure about 250) are legally limited to 90 km/h in my country because if total weight (that includes the legally allowed cargo + passenger capacity, but not towing capacity) is over 3500 KG, it's considered a heavy truck and same regulations apply as for a big ass lorry lol
Thats good at least. They should be illegal for normal joes IMO. Or have to be used for work once a week.
I do have a truck myself. Only used for work. 8 ft bed. No ac or radio. A real work truck, not some fluffy bullshit Cadillac mom truck. And, my "truck" is still smaller than any of those pavement queens.
Bring back wagons!!!!
This is a nice thought, but if that older car hit a wall at the same rapid speed as any of those modern cars, everyone in it dies while the people in the modern car walk.
Well, not so much walk, but crawl on a pool of their blood racking up $$$$ cost to be paid by their families over the various future years of the rest of their lives.....have a crash? Surprise! You're a slave now! No need to thank me for saving your ass! Oh by the way, that left nipple is gone, and well, we removed the entire thing, but we did re attach your penis and your vagina..... Oh...what do you mean passenger? Ah that does explain the extra legs. You know what, you need to rest, well talk later, again, no need to thank, K bye!
...Huh? I was talking about the crumple zones and modern safety features.
Yes me too. Those allow you to survive as a slave.... High insurance, ambulance, hospital stay, meds,therapy... the other guy's Chevy Malibu convertible super charged turbo powered rear window cleaning system with real live 2D naked Lady decal.
If you just die, that's it, nothing to pay. Your quarter is over and daddy has no more quarters, but you owe nothing. If you survive, you're screwed.
People in modern 5 star cars can expect to walk away from collisions that will kill everyone in a 1980s car
And I mean walk. They will have no injuries worse than bruising
Though the trucks often have the same tech, so they don't suffer much more
Oh, that Ford Escort model was truly Fix Or Repair Daily.
God, how bad it was. The shittiest and most unreliable car I ever had.
My grandad had one, a 1.4 "Eclipse". Granted he was a mechanic and very handy at fixing his own cars but that thing was super reliable. Now the Orion he got it to replace was another story, utterly useless hunk of crap. Technically the same car but still...
I enjoy my small shitbox (2007 KIA Rio5 hatchback) and wish I had a smaller shitbox to commute in
One of the biggest perks is the fact that my little shitbox is FIXABLE by sane people with standard tools! No special tools, parts are literally everywhere, and all the parts are DIRT CHEAP. The engine is in Hyundais and KIAs from 1989 to 2011. If it's a 1.6L 4 cylinder made by those 2 companies it's the same engine between ALL OF THEM.
EDIT: The biggest difference is the exhaust routing. The midpipe on the Hyundais is straight, the KIAs it's got a bump.
I saw a 1980s Honda Civic on the road the other day and it made me so happy. I don't even love that model — the Prelude was the better small car, but I loved the Accord. Still, seeing something from the mid-to-late 1980s (I think they all got a little chonkier in 1988, so this would have been older than that) made me smile. Those cars were good on gas, too.
I mean they were built for the 70's gas crunch, it makes sense they were good on gas. The SUVslop and TruckSlop we see today is largely emissions control dodging, feature carcinization, alongside a healthy dose of Jevons Paradox. Reject modern car design, demand smaller cars.
This is part of why I was hoping the conflict in Iran would keep ballooning gas prices, we got so many small cars and creative approaches to save gas out of the 1970s oil crisis, and a new oil crisis could absolutely do the same thing again, except now a lot of that technology that companies were experimenting with in the 70s is far more viable, so just that small push of a couple of years of oil crisis (honestly just needs to be >$4/gallon from what I've seen) could easily push oversized vehicles off a cliff and usher in the bike revolution that New York, London and Paris have been experiencing across the entire US
Friend of mine always buys Honda, starting in the 1980’s. At the time it was an Accord and civics were tiny, but the consistent choice made it easy to watch it grow. At some point, I think early 2000’s, he switched to Civics, because they were bigger than his original Accord
Meanwhile me back in University:
Sooo... Minivans?
Minivans/MPVs are so much better family cars in practice it isn't even funny.
They are comfier. Less ground clearance drives better and is more economical. They are actually effective at occasional cargo hauling. And so on. Luckily they seem on the uptick, SUVs are a devolution in practical aspects.
Not with those crash safety test results. I’ll take a modern sedan if I’m going to have a car
Yeah around here the little 90s car would look even more out of place since most people are driving lifted pickups that they are too out of shape to even lift anything into to haul. Guess what country I live in! :D
I hate them, I miss med-hatches and saloons. But they are hard to get hold of now, it feels like its the middle between tiny streetcars or ugly ute/wagons. I have even considered an estate car recently.
The days of flying around feeling like you were in a superpowered go cart so close to the ground
As a full time walker and bicyclist, what I have learned is that virtually no one is up to the responsibilities of operating a car or truck. Humans do not deserve to drive, and the sheer volume of traffic accident deaths every year is a reminder of that (let alone the far greater volume of traffic related animal deaths).
When I was a kid, me and some buddies went to a monster truck show. We all were desperate to drive one someday.
Well, I guess that day has come for most of us but me. I hate them now.
Here just aren't any smaller cars to purchase anymore, there are a few french ones but thats basically it. Like please make decent sized cars that drive electric.
I have a company car that I drive privately too. It's more of a lifted station than an SUV need the space for the kids.
It's just weird to me how people that don't need all of that actually buy huge cars. As soon as I am able I'll go back to small and low. Range rovers per example are just crazy, and everyone where I come from drives one.
What if I want something I don't have to squat down to get into? I like small trucks and small SUVs because I can just lift my leg and slide in. I'm getting older, my knees ain't what they used to be, I don't want to feel like I have to squat to get into a car and have to feel like my arse is dragging on the pavement like I'm in Mario Kart. But I don't love the gas mileage of those bigger vehicles.
I'd prefer a bus (and I'd prefer it to be electric) if I lived in a city that supported either, and if public transportation went to my job (it doesn't). Cars are necessary where I live, and I'm here because I dream of a better world, but, I also gotta pay bills, and wishes don't do that.
Yeah, completely agree. For a lot of years I could never understand why people wanted such top-heavy vehicles, then my knees started getting bad. When my wife suggested looking at a Subaru forester, I was offended. Then I got in and out a few times, and the difference was huge. So much easier
I just got a newer car and I gotta say the height was up there in priority as my knees keep getting worse- yep, another suv. Not monster sized but enough to be easy to get in and out and my adult kids to be comfortable if they’re in the back seat
I don’t love the gas mileage of those bigger vehicles
- When my forester was new, it hit near 30 mpg- not bad for such a big car
- my current suv is an EV, rated at 120 mpgE
It is so hard to tell how big those american cars are, because all the other cars around them are huge too, so everything is in proportion.
This really puts in perspective though. Seriously WTF
I don't understand what American cars have to do with this photo. The only American vehicle in that UK parking lot is the white Tesla in the background to the right.
I used to drive an early 90s Nissan Sentra. Great small car. Recently had a rental for a few days that's was a new Nissan Sentra. The new one is absolutely huge compared the old car.
These are British. Cars in the US are bigger still
These are neither American cars nor is this parking lot in the US so Idk what you're talking about
Please make minivans cool again so I can be cool.
It's cool if you have a large family & own a minivan. If you're single with no kids/gf & own a minivan, you're a problem to the environment.
tbf all cars are bad for the environment. And minivans can carry way more stuff like a 4x4 truck but while still being enclosed if you fold the 2nd and 3rd rows making them very versatile even if you’re single
Minivan makes an excellent work van for certain industries. I see a lot of painters use them. Cheaper and more effecient than a truck or work van.
I know a guy, single, who has a regular passenger minivan. When working he folds the back seat, cover the space with a black tarp he had made, and slaps some magnetic signs on.
I'd be pretty good with a smaller minivan. Something like a Mazda 5 would be nice.
Ya full family. Still not cool.
Wagons!
Just get a Toyota Sienna and lift it. > Adventure van
https://www.jalopnik.com/this-lifted-toyota-sienna-might-be-the-perfect-adventur-1849932407/
Im in love with cars in Bud Spencer movies. Small, neat. The Beatle and Bully of VW. So cute and compact
And don't forget Herbie, the love bug.
I used to own a tiny little turbo Sprint (roughly 1600lbs), absolutely loved that car... reliable, amazing on fuel, fit virtually anywhere, but it felt so dangerous driving around when everything else on the road was at minimum two to three times its size.
Smart fortwo is all most need. 4door is for afyer kids
I prefer the Previa.
Sell me a Station Wagon with third row seating, or damn-near-anything that seats three in the front row today. You can't.
Can't find it right now, but this reminds me of that one video about the Citroën C15 (or a similar car) basically asking "Do you really need a car bigger than this?" and showing off how the C15 can transport multiple cows and go cross country and such.
As a person who lives in upstate New York / the rust belt, this would be catastrophic for traffic in the winter. And actually the CUVs on each side are more fuel efficient, have less emissions, and are significantly safer than the 90s car. Looks can be deceiving.
A lot of that is just 30-40 years of progress. A car built to be a similar size and performance as that 90's car using the current state of the art would be significantly more fuel efficient, have less emissions, and would be just as safe as those SUVs.
I drive a 27 year old car that gets 5l/100km. (47 mpg). ABS, dual airbags, beautiful handling, fairly ample ...
Gen 1 Honda Insight?
Skoda Octavia Mk1 with the legendary diesel TDI 1.9 engine.
Good thing OP is talking about SUVs and not crossovers (CUVs). Crossovers are really just cars anyway.
Who cares about safety, and things like that. They want smaller cars! Also I had a couple large cars in the 90s. Including 2 massive suburbans. So there's are only certain cars that are small. This is the same things about older appliances apparently working forever, which they did not, bias by a few is all. I would never give up a modern car for anything from the 90s. Most of those cars just sucked
suv's where big in the 90's so I don't get this.
I had an suv for most of the 90s.
But was it that big? I don't think so.
The early 90s 4 Runner wasn't exactly small. By far and away the largest vehicle I've ever owned.
I wish!!!
I first read "Dutch SUV's" and thought aww that's a cute SUV
The Nethercar
Thats not a car from the 90s.
Just ran the reg on the dvla website, this dirty old escort was first registered in October 1990. Considering the next gen ford escort started production a month prior, this has to be one of the last mk4 escorts built and registered for the UK market
Yeah I'd say it's 80's. This is the Mk4 Escort which was based on the shell of a Mk3 which was released in 1980.
My very first car was Mk4. Then in 2017 I got nostalgic and bought one again.
or just climb a tree and chill there like the real og's
These 90s may have to be in north ireland if you want this accomplished.
Ya full family. Still not cool.
I was hit by a car a few years ago. I actually died and needed CPR to keep my heart going a few times. If it had been an SUV, there'd have been nothing to do. I would have just been gone.
I say that, but, at the same time, I think being tall requires an SUV. Little sedans are too close to the ground, and they're too hard to get out of them. The whole world is designed around someone who is 5'5". Its a struggle to fit into that as someone who is almost a foot taller than that. Getting off of short furniture is difficult on my knees (especially as I'm getting older), so I could only imagine getting out of a sedan that is so close to the ground like the one in the picture. The SUV (even for all its environmental wastes in its usage) is something that a tall person can easily fit into and get in/out of.
It's almost like the world was designed backwards: we need taller furniture (something I use more often than a car) but more efficient cars.
Oh well . . ..
it's not very Fuck Cars, but you can find smaller cars that handle taller people in the front. I'm 5 11, Chevy cruise isn't too bad. You really need to find stuff that has manual seats with height adjustment, they usually go a couple inches lower.
Also stay away from anything where the headliner has an indent on the drivers side to "make room" that already lets you know it was designed too small and made concessions.
I drive a volt (same as the cruise) and it does fine, my wife drives a monster 2010 Pilot whenver i'm in the thing, I wish it has a front facing camera so i could see what's below the hood.
Also if just looking to get a lower and lighter car without necessarily wanting a shorter car, full-size sedans can fit people much taller than you or I. I could sleep in my Chrysler 300M when I had it because the seat could recline all the way back.
Currently I have an A6 Allroad (C6 generation, I like 'em well depreciated) and it fits me just fine. If we're doing imperial units here, I'm 5'10 and 280 lbs. I could still move the seat much further back and lower the backrest further if I was taller or heavier. I have no trouble climbing from the driver's seat to the passenger seat and back when I park myself into my small garage with the driver's door blocked in due to doing some work on the other side of the car.
I guess what I was trying to say was: as much as I hate cars (and I hate cars a lot because I needed CPR and to be airlifted because of one), I more dislike getting into sedans because its painful to get in and out of one on a daily basis, especially as I'm getting older.
I will try out your point about full sized sedans.
For trucks I'm with you 100%, but my knees hurt just thinking about climbing out of that low-ass car.
We're getting there, Dual Income no Kids make that pretty easy.
Even having one kid isn't too bad.
It's that road-tripping with 2 kids to distant destinations that makes it hard to go in a sedan.
Sedans and wagons can handle 2 kids on a roadtrip no problem, especially once you're past the stroller age (until then a sedan might have trouble but a decent wagon won't). The driving part and the fitting things in the car part, anyway. Wagon cargo space is so OP, they're comparable to their equivalent SUVs. The BMW 5 series Touring has 570 liters with all the seats up, the X5 has 650. Not too different honestly. The X5 also costs more, requires more fuel and is less engaging to drive due to its extra weight and worse aerodynamics (so probably nice enough floating at 90 km/h, but less awesome on curvy roads or high speeds like on the autobahn).
But I have a toddler that's not quite able to climb into the car seat and do up the belts yet and there have been many times I've wished for an SUV. Still driving my trusty old wagon, but... A nice SUV would be the same width x length and be nicer to my back and knees. There are actually pretty nice ones that are shorter than my old A6 Allroad. The Porsche Cayenne is technically smaller though I haven't noticed it being smaller inside. 300 kilos heavier (for the second gen; first gen is even worse since it has a proper 2 speed transfer case) and poorer visibility though, compared to my current car. So those are not things I'm a huge fan of.
We packed my 4dr chevy to the roof to do a 12hr 1 way week long trip
4 suitcases and a cooler in the trunk. By the time we bought a few things for the kids we were nesting in our things on the way back. Wagons are slowly becoming slightly longer hatchbacks. :(
Maybe this is real, I'm no expert, but it does have a whiff of the photoshop to me.
If that is a 2013 nissan micra on the left it'd be smaller in all but height than what looks to be a 1990 ford escort.
Thats no nissan micra, its a nissan quashquai
"I'm no expert"
Opinion terminated.
😭
Isn't that a dualis on the left?
Perhaps I should weigh in here instead. 🤔
Is it possible to restrict communities geographically? This allergy to anything that fits more than two people is very US-focused. There are people with families that need more than just a coupe.
The small car has 5 seats, you can fit a family in it
Congratulations, you can read the brochure. Spoken like a true single person.
Ha I wish. Currently rocking a crying newborn's pram with my foot. We don't need a yank tank either
Same. I don't mean tank. Just something that has three rows. When both kids are in the car - mom can't fit in between them. And when the littelin starts crying - mom's going crazy, cuz she can't help him.
So. Four of us, front passenger seat is useless, mid rear seat is useless. Need a third row.
You need 3 rows of seating for 4 people?
Wild.
Most people in the US hate each other and their children, so they need a huge house and a huge car to be "with" them while also staying as far apart as possible.
I do admit my house is huge by most standards but I run a basement studio/jam space out of it. My hobbies take up a lot of space...music recording, retro gaming etc
Some of my best memories of my siblings are from being crammed in the back seat of a car during a road trip with our Gameboys, trading pokemon and playing through Zelda : Legend of Time/Seasons and swapping catridges on the way back.
Again - this is not US. I really wish you stopped making shit up.
I realize the pic is not US. large vehicles in European countries are really quite stupid. I'm surprised they're legal.
There really aren't large vehicles - in american sense - in Europe. We've got x7, gls, older gl, maybe a few more; but they're nothing against escalades, navigators and whatever lorries ford has on offer.
Right, no kidding.
I see ford excursions on the daily. Usually driven by 1 40 ish year old mom. 30 ft vehicle, probs about 7k lbs.
We need to limit these people from owning these dangers to society.
The issue is, car makers killed the wagon. Literally the best "american" family road trip type vehicle, and you literally cannot buy one.
If subaru brought back the wagon wrx right now I'd buy it. But they won't. Also it would be loaded with spyware and bullshit tech no one wants so yeah. I'll be fixing up old cars until i die because all new cars are basically corpo shit. I just want a fucking manual 99 civic thats brand new. I'll pay full cash, carmakers.
Only really addressing your last sentence.
For that kind of money - you can literally build one yourself using and old chassis. Might even end up cheaper. I'm a BMW guy myself, so I have realoem.com to help me, but Subaru has a massive following as well - I'm sure there's some sort of equivalent.
Did I stutter? Is something in my write up not clear?
The writing was clear. The logic is questionable at best.
You are somehow doing this wrong. I have a small hatchback and can fit two kids and two tall adults just fine. I think this is a matter or perspective. MOST of the world does not use giant SUVs.
I have the 3 door variant of the car in this picture and it was just fine using it when my son was born. My wife would always forget to turn the headlights off because there's no audible alert when getting out so would get a flat battery often.
Maybe. But I'm 197cm - I think that's about 6'5 or 6'6. We've got a 5 series and when I drive there's very little space behind me. The 4 yo does not fit without me moving forwards quite a bit, while the reverse newborn seat makes me barely able to drive. I also think you've conveniently ignored half of my post.