Don't ever forget Epstein
2mon 1d ago by reddthat.com/u/LadyButterfly in politicalmemes from reddthat.com
I don't think anyone is arguing gender inequality doesn't exist. Also this is class/power issue not a gender issue.
Yeah the women in the epstein files are also getting away scott free. And maxwell absolutely is compared to the punishment she should be getting.
Were they deleted or something? I don't see them.
You're making it sound like people are saying left and right that gender equality doesn't exist, when literally no one here is saying that. The comments you're referring to say the Epstein case isn't a gender issue, which is very different from what you're incorrectly perceiving
This was posted two days ago and I was in this conversation from the beginning. Still waiting for an example of someone saying that issues of gender equality don't exist
People definitely do that. You just aren't talking to the right people.
How do you even separate gender issues from class and power issues?
You control for gender by class...? Are you OK?
Was about to post exactly this and am glad this is on the top.
While there are gender disparity, Epstein isn't really about gender it is about ruling class having separate justice system than rest of us.
There might be gender issues like less women being as rich and powerful, but that's secondary.
It can be both. Both things can exist simultaneously. They are not mutually exclusive. I hope you understand that
A whole sex trafficking ring of little girls and people are saying it's not a gender issue. Lol okay
Who did that though
The person I responded to said:
Also this is class/power issue not a gender issue.
Self reflection
There are women in the Epstein files too, nothing happen to them either.
I mean maxwell is the only person associated with Epstein in jail right now......
They also had Epstein killed
Another Trump employee thrown under the bus. Convince me I'm wrong.
The Norwegian Crown Princess is in deep shit though.
Wait what, really? A quick search doesn't return anything relevant. What did I miss?
A scandal isn't jail time though. Formerly known as prince andrew lost a couple houses and a title, but he's still free too.
Damn, that's crazy. This shit runs deep.
FYI: Epstein was also in jail. Saying that only women were punished is not correct.
When did I say that?
This is a class problem not a sex problem
That's right it goes in the "class issue" hole lol.
I get why people see it as a sex issue since most of the rich people in positions of power that seemingly don't face consequences are men.
most of the rich people in positions of power that seemingly don’t face consequences are men.
which is just pure coincidence, right? in a world where genders are split 50:50, it is just the men who have skills necessary to reach these positions. no gender bias here at all...
Two things can be true at the same time... but yeah, stay distracted from the class issue it's ONLY a gender thing for sure 100% no way it's anything else make sure it's only about men and gender and definitely NOT class. Lol
Yes. I guess I should've made that clear on my first comment. I was more commenting on how people seem to see that men are in these positions, so therefore it's a gendered issue, and then they stop cuz they think they already understand the nature of the problem but there's actually more going on than what might seem obvious on the surface.
I'm just sick of people getting distracted from class issues.
Not being dismissed but you clearly want to take it that way.
Ok, I read through other comments and you're right. There are people in here commenting that's in not a gender issue at all which is kind of wild. I wasn't very clear in my first comment that it's both issues. Some people see the gender issue and think that's all there is to it but you can also fit it through the "class issue" hole.
Two things can be true at the same time
Exactly. So time for you and the other clowns who came with false dichotomy of "it is not gender issue, it is a class one" to shut up.
You are literally arguing against yourself and you don't even realize it. It would be funny if it wasn't sad.
I read through other comments and I didn't realize the sentiment some people had in this thread.
It absolutely is a gender issue and it's wild to try and say that it's only a class one.
Stop trying to make everything a gender issue and misreading everything. Clearly it's both, but trying to pretend it's not a class issue is just a complete misdiagnosis.
You guys are sooo dumb I cant.
there are no bad woman and all man are bad i guess
i don't see many rich/ceo women raping 13 year old boys.
Oh well you didn't see. Okay then no 14th_cyclon see no crime, rules are the rules
A lot of them come from old wealth.
oh. well that explains it, because i am sure they don't have daughters in the old wealth, so the gender issue is off the table. hurrah!
Plans to remake the square hole video but each shape is a civil struggle painted to make the people fight among themselves
Exactly. The fappening did not end any careers of celebrities
It's a bit of both, but the gender problem is at least partially derived from the fact that the larger portion of assholes at the top are men.
Getting rid of them or clipping their wings would likely be overall better for women. Replacing them with a billionaire-class of women would not.
Sex doesn't matter. It is sad that people are blind fighting each other and getting fooled by assholes
I don't understand people who dismiss an entire gender's lived experience. How can you be so patronizing
Op just baiting to get upvotes. Sadly there are too many comments agreeing with her. Fortunately top comments are the correct ones
I think the men on this platform struggle with any topic relating to the other gender. Case in point: needing to frame every problem exclusively through the lens of class struggle, even if it means demeaning the strugge of women or minorities. It's weird
This post is stupid and I am surprised many people here like yeaa drueee
Why am I not surprised about your attitude towards women.
Por Que no los dos!?
You don't think Epstein's homeys had any sex problem?
/s
I think they had a whole fucking lot of sex problems.
Why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I hate Lemmy sometimes. So incredibly myopic and laser focused one particular perspective.
They aren't. The Epstein class didn't exclusively harm women. But nobody likes to mention the male victims it seems.
You didn't disprove anything though. The perpetrators were predominantly male. Before you start screeching Gisslaine stop and reflect
M.H. Allegation: A 2021 lawsuit filed in Queens, New York, claimed that the "M.H." individual was under 17 and working as a high school intern when Epstein "induced" him into sexual acts, causing lasting mental anguish.
Whistleblower Reports: Some individuals have come forward identifying as male survivors associated with Epstein's network, including connections to other high-profile figures and trafficking rings.
Context of Abuse: While the majority of widely reported victims were young females, testimonies and legal filings suggest Epstein targeted young, vulnerable individuals regardless of gender to facilitate his trafficking ring.
I don't contest any of this. It doesn't negate the main point I was making. You're really invested in digging down
What's your point?
It's both. Both things can be true. Gender issues are still real in 2026.
.... says the one screeching...
This one is an issue of class, not gender.
Mmm, there are still gender stratifications within class, as well as class stratifications within gender. The existence of the Epstein class is a class issue; the misogyny of that class is a gender issue; the structural prevention of women to enter that class is both a class issue and a gender issue. And I'm not even getting into race. Like, Oprah dropping nudes is going to be taken differently than Kendal Kardashian, but both are still billionaires, and both would face more blowback than Epstein's friends within the same eschelon of the owning class.
Yeah, agree. Im just talking about the issue as it applies to meme. There absolutely is room for both things
Epstein didn’t kill himself.
Sure but class inequality is what exacerbates gender inequality. Under capitalism anyone who is working class is forced to sell their labor to survive. Women are inherently disadvantaged here because their labor is required for social reproduction. Even assuming an equal distribution of housework and raising kids women have to do the unpaid work of pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, etc. Capitalists will therefore discount the value of a women’s labor regardless of her individual capabilities or productive output. As a result women are often forced to depend on the men in their lives for financial stability.
Conservatives are hell bent on normalizing this unnatural inequality between the sexes because doing so protects the underlying class inequality between owners and workers. This is what helps to create a sexist culture that even wealthy women have to endure. However, a woman who can live off of the growth of her investments is not facing the full weight of gender inequality that a working class woman must contend with. She does not have to deal with the threat of homelessness, hunger, and poverty that keeps many working class women dependent on men. Her financial stability is already assured because of her class position and the exploitation of the working class. That gives her far more freedoms than even most working class men.
The obvious solution to the problem is to upend capitalism which is what reinforces class. That creates the possibility of actually valuing reproductive labor and giving universal financial independence to all women. If you just try to address gender inequality alone without upending capitalism you won’t be able to succeed. Even if somehow you did, the vast majority of inequality would remain because most inequality can be explained by class alone. So while its true that gender and class issues are interrelated, abolishing class creates the conditions necessary to abolish gender inequality.
If you just try to address gender inequality alone without upending capitalism you won’t be able to succeed.
This but in reverse! If you just try to crush capitalism without eradicating gender inequality you will probably fail. If the working class isn't even united and equal between its genders how could you muster the strength to abolish the upper class?
There’s a difference between rejecting sexism within a movement and trying to abolish gender inequality. I agree that the former is important for building solidarity. However the latter is likely impossible under capitalism.
Idk sort of agree, systemically.
If you are of high enough class, gender aint a problem.
Either way, its the class that I have a problem with regardless whether one gender or another.
I promise I wont discriminate here, believe me.
Depends who’s richer
You’re not making an argument that I don’t understand or have an opposing view for.
Im saying its of secondary importance. And if you want an equal proportion of B$ out there, I still want them all at the bottom of the ocean.
I’m not sure that’s really a foregone conclusion or what evidence you have to say we can’t all be against billionaires without having gender equality.
I am for gender equality, but it really isn’t required for class solidarity.
At least I understand why you are so tenaciously stuck to this perspective now. So please tell my why it is we need the gender issues to be solved simultaneously.
Maybe we can’t have gender equality until we solve the class one, that makes sense to me.. the ruling class are mainly responsible for sustaining the culture divide.
Asking me the question (and you’re repeating yourself at this point) isn’t helping me see how this is so. Im not saying you’re wrong, but the gender issue isn’t a barrier to the class issue.
Here is an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution
Choosing the larger battle of class issues isn't saying you support the Patriarchy, it's correctly identifying one of the major support structure for the patriarchy that must be dismantled for gender equality to even be a realistic possibility.
My bad, I mistook you for a serious adult. If I'd read the rest of the thread before replying I'd have realized you're an IdPol wokescold with a serious case of "liking pancakes means hating waffles" kind of thinking.
Have a nice life.
I’m smoking a fat fucking joint in your honor tonight 💚
I don't know how many different ways I can say that I am agreeing with you, fundamentally, that is something worth solving. You continue to frame it as if I'm against if I'm not fully agreeing that these things need to be of absolutely equal priority.
Again, you're not supporting your argument by asking me this. And I've already given an example. It can be done entirely without balancing all the other conflicting cultural humors, and has been in the past.
How will we achieve it? I don't suggest we start reinventing the wheel. Same ol' same ol'.
All of the other cultural stratification issues we deal with are extensibly maintained by the power that is held by the rulers. If we are going to talk about gender, then we should also talk about race, and also ableism, and political alignment and all the other juxtapositions of cultural conflict that make up the many-headed hydra of inequality.
You want the egalitarian life, and so do i. But I think you can't beat a hydra by cutting off one of it's heads. You cut out its heart and you burn it.
Not entirely? Like class is important but the fact is that women get punished more often for having their sex lives leaked than predatory men do.
You mean kim?
Okay Cesar Chavez
Just stopping by to drop off some ad hominem?
Yeah, maybe I misunderstood the reference. I guess there's a bit of a joke in there? It's not really where my thinking is at for the discussion, but probably there is another conversation the have there fo sure.
Horrible.
Would it not be reasonable to think he ignored gender equality because of his values towards women?
But you're right, they are tied together, as are all the other cultural class divisions rooted back to the core issue of economic class. That is the problem to solve, not to the exclusion of others, but because the other problems also must be solved.
If you listen to the victims they say they didn't want to speak out and undermine the movement. So at the very least the victims were encouraged to ignore gender issues and soley focus on class issues. Something to consider. I could not care less what the pedophile valued.
I think there is something to be done about finding the means to screen out psychopaths from getting into positions of power. It's a whole other issue to tackle and exists regardless of most ideological positions.
I don't think you know what that word means
in adressing the implication it's appropriate.
Oh well as long as it's appropriate
Im not sure this is the double standard you think it is. Women who are in the epstein files also seem to be getting off pretty easily.
Not as easily as they would with fresh slave children to rape, but easily.
I find that, just as some people don't think trans men exist, some people don't think woman can be rapists or paedophiles.
I dont think the men in the files are getting it any worse. I think our culture just reveres the rape of children, no matter whos doing it.
Same people who think black people are mostly the source of crimes.
Yeah it has always been the billionaires vs the rest of us
Ownership class vs labor class
The only person serving time for a global conspiracy to rape children is a woman.
She's a terrible woman who deserves it, but it's still telling.
TBH, there was another guy but he is either dead or disappeared now.
But the factor of whether people get tried for their crimes is much more about wealth and connection than gender IMO. Even in jail she's given preferential treatment, and I'm sure there are other women who have been involved with Epstein's Island of evil in additional to the rich men.
...I'm pretty sure alot of the victims became perpetrators by helping Epstein recruit new victims. If you look into their testimony, they conveniently don't provide evidence about acts that occured after their 18th birthdays.
There is no connection to gender, only wealth and networking
you mean maxwell in probably a 5 star hotel of a prison?
And she's allowed to leave that prison. Doesn't sound like a prison huh?
this is not about sex. it is about money.
This is not about money. This is about might and machine.
i remember the 2016 race when identity politics were used as a wedge issue to break up class consciousness
Gender equality is inseparable from class consciousness. The amount of leftist on this platform who are dismissive of feminism is kinda insane. If our class can't support and aid the most endangered minorities within our own body, why have any hope that any of this is actually about solidarity.
Feminism is foundational in creating class consciousness in western society, you start from the bottom up. If you don't upset the social economic hierarchy then there is no reason for disenfranchised minorities to believe a revolution would be anything but a civil dispute within the current hegemony.
I think intersectional feminism had a great shot at lighting issues that different types of folk encounter. Somehow socioeconomic status was disregarded and focus was put mainly on race, sex and sexuality. Which is why poor, white, straight men felt were left out and quite understandably so. It wasn’t a problem with intersectional feminism though.
Somehow socioeconomic status was disregarded and focus was put mainly on race, sex and sexuality.
I mean it's not that big of a mystery when considering the American higher education system. Feminist education being dominated by professors from Ivy League universities made it inevitable that it would be learned through the lens of liberal economics.
Though that's not really an excuse for self proposed leftist to conflate all aspects of feminism with "blue hair, hate men" that's so common nowadays.
I don't really understand why kyriarchy isn't talked about more by feminists. I think kyriarchy does a much better job of conceptualizing modern systems of oppression vs patriarchy. Multi-dimensional (kyriarchy) vs one dimensional (patriarchy).
Because it will shift the focus from regular men who usually mind their own business to the real problem - deceptive rich parasites
This is the idea behind Jineology if anyone wants to read about it.
As a feminist, i wasn’t being dismissive of feminism. i was referring to the propaganda used to push apolitical disenfranchised straight white men further to the right by creating a “radical” boogie monster version of feminism that made it feel anti male and not about equality.
a similar thing happened with the whole “misogynistic bernie bro” smearing during the dem primary.
Yeah, this isn't so much about men/women, as it is about money. Like there was a story on here recently about the connection to Ariane Rothschild, and how she basically introduced him to all the power people / helped establish his honey trap -- story claimed her name showed up like 12k times in the files, but little/nothing's happened. Her name is basically verboten in all media.... because she's stupid rich. And Ghislaine is currently alive in a min security prison, with a dog -- while Epstein was killed. So, like in terms of the 'main people' perpetrating the crime, the guy in the couple got killed, the woman got a dog.
At least the rich men are getting named and semi shamed, like Gates needing to eat crow for fuckin on the island and passing an STD to his then wife.
It's not about men/women because women are helping men make victims of little girls and are getting awayt with it. Did I get that right?
Yes there's a class element, they prey on girls without the material means to fight back - but that doesn't negate the sexism, it just reinforces it
The image that was posted is literally arguing that "Women who have their photos leaked lose careers", but "Powerful men who can be linked to epstein get to stay in power", as the grounds for declaring "inequality! sexism!".
I pointed out that in the Epstein case, looking at people who are named in the files (so same general control group), there are women like the Rothschild chick, who are getting off scott-free. I also pointed out that looking at two people who committed the same crimes (Ghislaine and Epstein were partners in all this afterall), the guy got killed, the woman got a dog, to highlight that the 'inequality' often favours women -- particularly when they, too, have money. Really, Ariane Rothschild getting off scott free, just like every other Epstein named collaborator, is enough of a counter to the 'attempted' point from the image -- as it shows that the getting off scott free isn't necessarily happening because they are 'men', since 'women' too are without accountability.
I agree that inequalities exist, but I don't agree that it's as rampant as the left seems to think, nor do I think "ALL" inequalities boil down to gender shit. And I don't agree that looking at the accountability for those named in the epstein files is a good place to try and highlight gender inequalities (the actual crimes committed were generally against women, but that's not what the image is highlighting -- and if we want to look at that sort of thing, through a gender lens, then it'd be fair to bring up the lopsided casualties in things like war and drafts, where men's deaths far outnumber women, and basically no one in the epstein class/rich gives a shit. It's sorta like politicians arguing "Those who suffer most are the wives and children left behind" when a guy gets killed in a war - as though the guy dying isn't sorta a bad result from the POV of the individual, one that's a bit worse than not having a husband/dad around.
Besides, if you want to talk about careers ruined by phone leaks/images on devices -- there are plenty of men who've had careers ruined by a dick pick, or even just an accusation of sexually inappropriate behaviours - though these consequences generally fall on the poors/commoners. So even the "Women who have their photos leaked lose careers!" is sorta bullshit. Hell, Kim Kardashian is practically famous because her private shit got "leaked". Name a dude who's made a billion off of a leaked dick pick. Heck, even that Coldplay cheating scandal -- the guy lost his job, the HR lady he was cheating with kept hers.
That's like saying slavery wasn't about race but economics because you had black slave owners
Scoping and context matter -- I'm not saying sexism doesn't exist, nor am I saying that the crimes committed weren't based on sexually predatory men exploiting vulnerable women. But the argument the image is making is just shit, and conflating different topics, botching the framing and diminishing the statements ability to persuade me as a reader/consumer.
Using your own response to highlight it: "slavery wasn't about race but economics because you had black slave owners".
You didn't properly frame that as American slavery, you're presuming the context is just known to your reader, and that they'll inherently agree with your point as you view it as politically correct -- you're being intentionally lazy with your word choice, but that makes the statement easily challenged/ignored. It's sorta like virtue signalling -- you don't need to "prove" something will benefit an individual, if you can convince them its for some nebulous greater good. To your lazily framed statement, one could ask: What about Rome? What about Korea, one of the areas with the longest history of slavery? How about the First Nation groups in the PNW, who prior to "colonization" ruining their culture, were known as prolific slave traders with about 25% of their band being slaves from other FN bands? "Slavery" itself isn't about black and white, nor is it specifically about race. America's racism, is America's racism -- slavery or no, as many non-whites have found out in the years since slavery was "abolished" in that country.
The image is leaning on virtue signalling, saying "sexism is bad"/"women are disadvantaged" to present a disjointed argument about gender inequality. The examples they provide are shit: in the two 'things' they put forward, having photos leaked online and being named in the Epstein files, if you look for cases with the two genders, there are differences but it's not a solid ground to stake a position. There are both men and women in the Epstein files, as conspirators/contributors/victimizers, who are all getting off nearly scott free (gotta quantify that a bit, as it's mostly US people getting off totally scott free, the US people in power specifically). And if you look at photo leaks/mis-sent photos, there's lots of examples of men getting shafted, and there are examples of women turning huge profits off it/gaining careers from it.
Like if the base argument is "men got off scott free in epstein, women lose careers in photo leaks". Then pointing out women got off scott free in the epstein files, and that men lose careers over photo leaks, you could accurately rebut that argument simply by saying "women got off scott free in epstein, men lose careers in photo leaks -- they are equally avoiding accountability in the files, and both losing careers to photo leaks, so where's the inequality?".
The image isn't arguing that "the epstein files was a giant multi-nation syndicate setup to exploit vulnerable women for the benefit of sexually predatory rich men, while also gaining blackmail material on those men". It's arguing "Men have no accountability from Epstein stuff, while women lose careers for a photo leak, therefore sexual inequality!". It's a shitty argument, even if you agree that sexual inequality exists.
There are high society women involved with Epstein too and none of them have been held accountable. In fact the only woman to receive a punishment just got moved to a min security prison and was given a puppy. Stop using heinous shit to push your agenda
This isn't a gender inequality issue. The problem is the Epstein class, not the Epstein gender.
There's proof Matt Gaetz paid a teenager for sex, and literally nothing was done.
I used to write cheeky notes in the memos of checks to friends and family (eg "for: eye hole widening" or some shit like that) until I learned the bank and your accountant read that shit and if it looked or smelled funny they were professionally and ethically obligated to report it.
Now I make sure it's embarrassing just not reportable. (eg "for: butthole removal, 2nd attempt")
It’s crazy how accountability seems to depend on who you are, not what you did.
How much money you have, that's all that matters.
I don't think many people deny it's existence. Right-wingers usually justify it by appealing to nature.
I, personally don't think that introducing girl-bosses and cancel-culture will help with the systemic issue that creates this gender inequality.
I think we could start with killing the rich. See if that one works.
Unfortunately sexist people will continue to generalize. Same as if I call most brown, black people criminals. Glad there are people with brain capacity like you, though the major movement is "some men bad thats why I will call all men bad"
The Metoo movement didn't even scratch the surface. Every single grown women I have had the privilege to talk to has been sexually assaulted in their lifetime. My wife, my mother, and now my daughters.
The backlash from the Metoo movement has been insane. Cops, prosecutors, and judges have ensured that there will be no justice. The President is a damn child rapist for Christ's sake. We are absolutely fucked when it comes to gender inequality.
Still waiting for the Equal Rights Amendment to be ratified.
Thanks for having women's back ❤️
It's always enlightening to see every time a post about sexism make the front page of Lemmy how many people in the comments argue that sexism isn't an actual problem.
Looks more to me like people arguing sexism isn't the problem on this specific case, because it's not. This is a class issue, not a gender issue. Men and women alike see consequences for CSA, as long as they aren't wealthy or connected enough to have at least a couple Senators on speed dial.
Yep you can play misogyny bingo with it
Or misandry
Honestly, it kind of fucking breaks my heart. I usually love the climate and culture on Lemmy. But every time this shit comes up, there is an overwhelming outcry to try and downplay the role of sexism, to highlight outliers in the data while ignoring the obvious trends, and a fuck ton of lemmings do their best Tucker Carlson impression and "just ask questions" that coincidentally reinforce a misogynistic world view.
Once again, Lemmy proving that tunnel vision and framing Every.Single.Issue through class struggle exclusively betrays a fundamental sense of empathy and understanding of any other topic whatsoever
I get it. You guys are experts on leninist theory. There are other issues happening concurrently. We can work to solve class inequality without dismissing the struggle of women or those faced by minorities. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Tin hat on: I am starting to think this dismissive strategy is intentional. There feels like an undercurrent of self sabotage intended to dilute the efforts of building a movement around class consciousness by deliberately undermining others struggles. The intended goal of this self sabotage is to never have to address concrete issues. It seems that as long as we remain in the realm of the abstract, we can keep the discourse aloof and disconnected from the real effects of what si happening through action. I can't prove this of course. The more likely reality is Lemmy is overwhelmingly men, and men in tech. Their frame of reference is... Not the greatest when it comes gender issues
Tin hat contd: in other words, by keeping the discourse in the abstract birds eye view of theory and never addressing concrete issues (such as gender inequality), the conversation can self replicate endlessly without an exit path towards actionable items.
Tin hat off
my personal lifehack is posting my own nudes publicly on mastodon so there's nothing to leak 😎
Mine is posting them in a medical textbook so people pay to see them
Even the fact that the only associate behind bars is a woman should tell you something
Exactly. She deserves jail but so do a lot of other people
Well the other one who was behind bars was a Jew who either committed suicide very suspiciously, after an attempted strangulation by a corrupt cop who was his cell mate on murder charges, or got suicided whenit was inconvenient for him to exist for the pedo in chief among many others. So of the two arrests both were the procurers and monsters (as well as the most disposable on a social level), but the clients conveniently never knew the guy and the files are lying.
Yup, post is 100% correct, gender inequality is all around us. It's even in the thread with us right now.
I'm tired boss
If you have time to be tired you have time to stuff envelopes with crickets.
Do not paint the whole world with an American brush.
America allows criminals to exist and abuse the world so long as they have money. Why do you think the worst kinds of people go to the United States in order to get rich?
See also treatment of female pedos vs male pedos, or how well men make out in divorce or family law proceedings, or how quickly people are to assume a man has committed a sex crime when accused.
No one is arguing that gender inequality doesn't exist, except maybe the Ben Shapiros of the world.
We're well aware.
What women are losing their careers from leaks in 2026? Maybe in the stone age (early 2000s) it happened? But it made the Kardashians
Also nurse practictioner Susan Gibson lost a VA run for office after adult material of her and her husband was discovered on-line:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/09/susanna-gibson-virginia-digital-privacy-00130883
Oh yeah I'm sure there's more examples.
The two I linked to are the ones I remember most. When I fiist read about them I was like WTF.
Also Brianna Coppage fired for having an onlyfans:
Well that's fucked up
I believe you, it's just not making the news I see anymore, I guess. And I am chronically online
At this point it'll end up in the hands of the people...
Kinda ironic incels online were arguing it was the other way around too >:(
I hate to defend incels on any point....,. you know what, as much as I feel compelled to play devil's advocate, this time I'm not gonna.
Can we just add to sexist posts a keyword so that i can ban it?
Or racism. The most they will give you as a black man is a hip hop star career. White people can be presidents.
You're seriously claiming the lack of accountability during an ongoing fascist takeover proves women have it worse...
Look, we live in a complex world where there are 2 sexes for human beings, with some people having traits of both to varying degrees, that leads to physiological, hormonal, genetic, and neurological differences that make every person unique and therefore we will not have a world that treats everyone fairly or equally as that would be close to impossible. What we do have is the mental capacity to cooperate and learn and trying to blame sex or gender for differences when there is a more obvious cause for the issue, wealth disparity, then that is the problem. In gender terms male, female or other, sexual orientation, or whatever we have seen time and time again that rich assholes get away with things for a very long time, in recent times you've had Ellen degeneres (abusing employees), Trump (need I elaborate?), Epstein (see trump), Harvey Weinstein, almost every politician above a certain level, and all sorts of people with social standing, power, or money able to get away with small things at first then escalating until the foundation of their reputation collapses, and maybe they are able to come back from that or maybe not. If you look on the lowest rungs of the pay scale I would assume there is sexual harassment or holding of pay raises from managers against their poorest employees but the poorest still make the same. Are there societal or biological incentives that means a woman makes more in tips as a waitress then a waiter I'd say yes and those factors also play into men probably grouping together to help move up in corporate jobs historically. I can tell you right here and now though that the richest people on earth do not need you to help some of them get pay parity with others when they both make millions or times more than you will in your life, or neither of the men or women at the top will likely ever spend time in anything other than a low security prison after bilking people of their retirement savings if they see jail time at all, and going into war of the sexes or race war territory is the easiest way they can divide us. Yes finding ways of making inequality lesser is a good thing, just don't let it be a tool of separation and division against ourselves when unity is most needed.
Lots of girls make career exactly by selling nudes lol. Pretty funny
Are you saying that you don't understand the concept of "consent", or that you find it ironic that while erotica/porn exists, some women's lives can be ruined by their nudes being leaked?
Are you pretending or do you really think that some mens lives can not be ruined by nude leaks? There is a long list of women whos nudes got leaked without consent and nothing happened to them.
Is there an example of a woman having photos leaked and having it negatively impact her career? Maybe I am out of the loop.
So women from lower classes have problems, but not the wealthy celebrity women whose leaked photos just lead to more job offers. Sounds an awful lot like this is also a class issue.
So, I ask a question and you downvote me. Well, you’re not bringing people to your side with that behavior. Also, I do not see these examples posted anywhere else in the comments and I did skim for it. So, you should try to be less of an asshole to people asking to understand something. Do you scold everyone who asks a question?
If these cases are true, it’s absolutely ridiculous that these women were fired. It should not be legal.
We live in a world of 8+ billion people, in an era where everybody is getting lamblasted with media vying for their attention at every avenue, every hour of the day. You listed 7 examples. Chill the fuck out. There's completely valid reasons why somebody may not have heard of those events.
Why not tell favoredponcho to “chill the fuck out” for being so upset over a downvote? Why tell a woman who is being aggressively scolded to be more considerate?
Like, I get that folks might not have heard of those instances. That’s fine. I just find it weird that a woman listed names of women who were victims of revenge porn is the one who is being scolded and not the man who didn’t do the most basic internet search to find the information, then got aggressive and whined about a downvote.
When I have a very easily researched question, I go to https://noai.duckduckgo.com/ and look it up myself. I don’t whine about downvotes and then scold someone for downvoting me.
And please read this with no aggression, it just boggles my mind that sneakypersimmon is the bad guy in this instance.
To be clear, I'm responding to these statements.
It's the sheer fact that men can be so disconnected from the struggles women face that you can even ASK that question that pisses me off.
How do you not realize that many, many women have faced negative consequences for having their nudes leaked?
Acting like you had no idea women are negatively impacted when their nudes are leaked just makes you look real dumb honestly.
It's either that or feigned ignorance because you don't want to admit that gender inequality still exists.
My comments were never meant to defend the statements of that one commenter, just the idea that there are legitimate reasons that people may not be aware of this particular issue. No hard feelings.
I didn't attack you, but regardless, those statements don't magically carry more weight because you got into an argument online with an asshole.
I get it, I really do. I just also understand why sneakypersimmon is so upset. She replied to a guy’s question with a simple answer and he became very aggressive….over a downvote. He berated her in multiple comments and said he no longer cared about women’s equality because of a downvote. When I mentioned that he could have easily searched it online, he became aggressive towards me. In his own words, he became aggressive because of a downvote. He said he no longer cares about women’s equality because of a downvote, but later calls his question “an act of love”.
I have absolutely nothing against you, I just hope you understand that tensions were already running high and instead of saying something to the aggressor, you replied to the one who was being targeted. It just seems a bit backwards to me.
Women are constantly pushed to the edge about things like this. We are harassed, berated, and assaulted when we do the most every day simple things like stick up for ourselves (not saying any of that applies you specifically). We are told our equality does not matter, we are talked down to, we are told we need to “be nice” to men who are aggressive towards us. It pushes us to our limits at times and this was one of those times.
Edit: All of this could have been avoided if favoredponcho said “I was unaware, thank you for informing me”. But he got pissy and threw a fit…because of a downvote.
Yeah, re-reading through the thread, it's clear everybody is getting heated and saying dumb shit, myself included. I should have done a better job taking into consideration the context and toned down my language in my comment. I don't have any ill will towards sneakypersimmon, and I understand why she's upset, and for good reason. Me calling out one aspect of her post was never meant to be an endorsement of everything leading up to it. Crossed wires in a tense subject I guess. Thank you for being understanding.
No worries dude. Consider it growth from messing up. I’ve done, we all do it. We will probably do it again and learn again. It’s just a good lesson in life.
Have yourself a good weekend and have a good smoke/drink/vice of your choice tonight :)
I didn't say they weren't? You're getting pissy all over the thread because people haven't heard of this happening. I'm saying there are perfectly valid reasons why people may not be aware of it. Its not because everyone is a porn-brained asshole who hates women.
No, those aren't the only comments you're responding with that reaction to. There's multiple examples of people in this thread trying to broaden their awareness and you are being hostile for absolutely no fucking reason.
Acting like everybody is capable of being aware of every single issue when, again, we are all being lamblasted for our attention at every avenue, every hour of the day AND we as a society are becoming increasingly more and more aware of countless issues in the imperialist, capitalist hellscape that we live in, issues that MANY people had no idea existed, that just makes you look completely out of touch with reality.
Nobody can possibly be informed on every single issue. Yell at the assholes who say its not a real issue, absolutely, but when people are genuinely not aware, either help them or shut up and let someone else. Attacking potential allies just makes people hostile to your ideas.
To be clear, I'm responding to these statements.
It's the sheer fact that men can be so disconnected from the struggles women face that you can even ASK that question that pisses me off.
How do you not realize that many, many women have faced negative consequences for having their nudes leaked?
Acting like you had no idea women are negatively impacted when their nudes are leaked just makes you look real dumb honestly.
It's either that or feigned ignorance because you don't want to admit that gender inequality still exists.
My comments were never meant to defend the statements of that one commenter, just the idea that there are legitimate reasons that people may not be aware of this particular issue. No hard feelings.
Why do you feel like women are being hostile just by participating in discussion?
Why are you leading the question? Hostility is defined by the way you respond, it has nothing to do with your gender identity. And for no reason? Come on. I never claimed your initial comment was hostile, but your later comments disparaging anyone who wasn't aware of this are absolutely hostile. That has nothing to do with favoredponcho getting butthurt about downvotes. I apologize for coming on strong, that wasn't necessary, but the statements I called out are were valid criticisms. You're all over this thread calling out people's bad behavior, and again, I apologize for mine, but can you at least acknowledge that some of those statements were uncalled for?
I didn't single you out, or I should say intend to single you out, but you already called out his bullshit. You did so though by throwing in your own bullshit (that nobody could possibly be unaware of one of the literally millions of issues in our hellish existence unless there was something wrong with them or they were lying).
He doubled down on his bullshit, and you continued in addressing that. I addressed your bullshit because I thought it should be addressed, admittedly by throwing in my own bullshit. I fucked up, I can admit that, but his bullshit doesn't excuse your bullshit, and your bullshit doesn't excuse my bullshit, and vice versa.
Everybody in this thread is getting heated and being shits in different ways. I've made my two cents, I apologize again for how I went about it, and I'm resigning myself from this thread. Have a good rest of your day.
And I ask you to please consider that not everything has to do with your gender identity and just because somebody disagrees with you on something, that doesn't mean they endorse every other shitty idea put forth by every other asshole in the thread. Thank you!
This is why you lose people. Because you’re a scold. You could’ve brought me along and been nice. Good luck with your cause. It’s not something I need to care about and since the people advocating for change are assholes I’ll just ignore them, regardless of the merits of the issue. See how that works? I think this is political advocacy 101.
I’ve also blocked you, so you’re really reducing your audience size here. Great comms skills.
This comment here shows you never really cared anyway. You could have done some self reflecting and tried to understand, but since someone was “mean” to you, it’s not your problem anymore.
This is why I prefer bugs and rabbits
Not true. I never understood the issue. I’m trying to understand it and that alone seems to offend you. I will not participate in helping people who are angry at me for being curious and trying to be empathetic.
There are a lot of causes in the world to care about. This one is now at the bottom of my list.
You asked someone else to do the work for you and when she did, you got butthurt that you were downvoted, so you decided to scold her. You were the scold first.
You never really cared in the first place because you didn’t even try to do the most basic internet search to try to understand.
She downvoted me for asking. I did say I searched the thread for examples. Do we make friends by downvoting and aggressively scolding everyone who doesn’t understand our personal crusades and doesn’t immediately invest in a thorough internet quest to understand it?
Again, whatever. I’m out on this thread. You’re all blocked. Good luck.
Ok. I wasn’t even being a dick to you, just trying to show that you could have done the work yourself very easily instead of whining about downvotes.
Enjoy being butthurt.
Edit since you edited your comment: Again, you scolded first when you whined about being downvoted. You were aggressive first. If a single downvote is all it takes to lose you as a supporter of equal rights, you were never supportive of equal rights in the first place.
And we definitely don't make friends by responding in the aggressive way you did when someone answers your easily available question.
To tack on to Velma's answer below about why you were insta-downvoted, your question is the sort that can be answered much quicker and more comprehensively by just doing a google search instead of asking a small crowd of strangers in a comment thread to essentially be your research committee, a fact considered so readily intuitive that to opt for the latter anyway is to almost certainly appear as disingenuous to said crowd. If they can all find this info so easily, certainly you can too.
The point of Lemmy is to have discussions. Can people look things up on the internet? Yes. Does that add to the discussion? No.
If people should just google all things at all times to avoid discussing them, why even have Lemmy in the first place.
With my comment, I’m inviting someone more knowledgeable about the subject to share their perspective here in the thread where the post is. It’s actually an act of love and it’s conversation 101, but you’re all so blinded by rage that you bite even those who try to meet you where you’re at. You must all be insufferable to speak with in real life.
No I'm pretty pleasant most of the time, I joke and smile a lot. We've got nothing to argue about, I'm just offering an extra explanation about why your comment wasn't well received.
Asking people to provide case examples of something so basic is not "having a discussion". It's a deliberate attempt to put the onus - again- on women to defend their position. Because you can't extend any grace to their point of view. Some self reflection is warranted