‘Your phone is about to stop being yours': anger brewing among Android fans as major Google app change draws near
1mon 16d ago by lemmy.nz/u/throws_lemy in technology from www.techradar.com
Love that some megacorp can just make decisions like this that affects billions of people.
Really just feeling the fucking freedom. I hate everything.
The megacorps can do anything they want with their product. The chef can change the menu anytime and he can refuse you service - it's his restaurant. Our problem is that it's a duopoly and there's nowhere else to go.
The only way out is open standards and platforms, enabling true competition.
Real quick.
Just imagine you order a plate of pasta. You're only two bites in, and it's DELICIOUS.
Then here comes chef. While making full eye contact, he tips your plate and dumps all of that pasta in the trash.
Chef proceeds to take a giant wet shit onto the plate. He brings a new set of silverware and a fresh napkin right before your server comes back with the check.
You insist that you didn't order a giant wet shit, but they won't take it off the bill.
Let's stop pretending this is an inevitable oopsie. This shit is egregious.
Daddy Googs won't be happy until it's a walled garden just like iOS
"Fascist oligarchy of capitalist dictators continue to implement totalitarian surveillance apparatus. Majority of talking chimps sleepwalking into dystopia."
More like you go to the restaurant every day and eat your favorite meal and one day its just not on the menu anymore.
I am not buying a new phone every day. I have already purchased the phone and now the functionality is being changed.
You could technically stop updating. But thats not feasible since it would put your device security to peril. Until or only if we were to use a FOSS system would we be able to chose which parts of the updates we don't accept. It sucks but google can basically do anything they want to android and if you're on a proprietary vendor you're stuck with that patch
Don't overstretch my analogy like that. How about this:
Google has standardized The Restaurant. The kitchens all have the same tools and ingredients and are open to anyone. Seating and billing is standardized, and you can easily order and pay at your table, and the food is delivered straight to you via pneumatic tubes and nicely packaged. The food might be expensive or cheap, tasty or revolting, but the experience is always the same.
There are a lot of hobby cooks that like to cook in the Google restaurants. If you want to eat their food, you might have to pick it up straight at the kitchen, or nicely ask the hobby waiters. The cooks have been there for years and whipping up nice creations - mostly for free, beacause the ingredients and tools were free, and they really like to cook. Because the food is so good, some people tip the cooks or waiters directly.
Now Google introduced a new rule: everyone has to use their billing and pneumatic delivery system, citing improved food safety. The hobby cooks and waiters are infuriated, and even some of their customers, and they demand that everyone can still come to the kitchen or the waiters. But Google just says: look, my restaurant, my rules. If you don't like it go make your own.
Except that google's "standardized, "packaged" food is just as unsafe or even less safe than the hobby cooks', and they're only using "food safety" as a pretense to capture the market and hold clientele hostage.
And this change has also been preceded by buying out every other restaurant chain in town, except for the "Apple Restaurants," which are already a walled garden, which Google is now trying to emulate even though most of its user base came to it specifically to avoid Apple's business model.
And there are a few other smaller chains based on Google's standards, but they're considered niche and don't all support every feature ("sorry, no ATMS"). Also, since most of their equipment comes from Google, Google likely has a killswitch and can cut off their stoves and refrigerators at any time.
It's clearly an anti-trust issue, but since Apple has already set the precedent and the US is pro-corporation and anti-consumer, everyone is kinda just screwed.
The point is that Google's head chef can come out and shit on your plate, and if you don't like it then it sucks to suck because there aren't really any viable alternatives.
as much as i despise microsoft, at least windows phone was competition.
Ironically, apparently it got shut down for ostensibly being too monopolistic...
But also I had to pay to access the restaurant in the first place, and after I did so Google introduced this new rule.
Android was an open standard and platform, a LONG time ago. Then Google did a rug pull with all new features of android requiring 100% of their services to function.
No, it wasn't ever. It always belonged to Google who benevolently open sourced parts of it and retains control.
Safetynet and PlayIntegrity are under Google's control. The PlayStore is Google's. All of the APIs are Google's! Hardware blobs are closed and belong to the manufacturer.
Just because some of the stuff shows up on GitHub doesn't make it an open platform.
Android was out for at least five years before Safetynet was a thing. I'm surprised people weren't louder in their objections to that then.
You can still install AOSP based distributions on supported devices
It doesn't feel so invisible if we're the ones who have to build and test it.
It's more like:
There are 2 grocery store chains in your city and zero restaurants or other ways to get food not owned by those chains. One already has a supply of only expensive, big-brand products, with nothing organic and very few healthy items The other chain has more independent items that are healthier and more reasonably-priced, as they allowed smaller companies to sell there. Now they are closing the door to these smaller companies, making them appear as a clone to the first chain.
Trouble with this analogy is the pasta they serve you eat for about 2 years and they can change what's on your plate at any time.
And just manage to push it unilaterally too. This shit must be opposed.
this is a reply from further down that is actually correct:
This is being presented as more doom laden than is warranted. Ostensibly it is an effort to stop less technically able users from installing malware, certainly there will be unspoken ulterior motivations but such is the world we have allowed to grow around us. As far as overarching evil plans go this is quite a benign example.
Which is bullshit. You already had to enable external installs this is just them even farther encroaching on our ownership of our devices.
Get that boot out your mouth, you don't know where it's been.
Please consider donating to PostmarketOS to build up a pure mobile Linux alternative that is completely free of Google's influence. It's the best option we have.
What about fairphone? Don’t they run a Ubuntu option?
Hijacking as I've done on other posts. In my country all 3 major tellcos needed to verify phones can call emergency on VoLTE.
FP5 does this. For whatever reason the telcos cant "conform" that (its not sold here but important and DOES work) so the device is blocked at a network level.
Not blocked just for calls but even data.
Phone is now a brick. Double brick once the Android changes roll through.
Damn, that sucks. What country does that? (If it's large enough to not dox yourself, of course)
Sounds like Australia to me.
Damn. The guy just doxed himself.
The issue with Ubuntu Touch is that unfortunately it uses an outdated Android kernel (which is also usually not receiving security updates) and a Halium abstraction layer to access the closed source binary blob Android drivers for the phone’s hardware. It also requires that it be installed on top of an existing Android install, so in all it’s more of Linuxified layer on top of Android, which means it’s not truly escaping the control of the Android/Google ecosystem.
UBPorts also appears to inherit the use of CLA's from Canonical:
I'm very much not a fan of CLA's., which SailfishOS also employs.
The advantage of PostmarketOS (even though it is not ready as a daily driver for the average person), is that it uses the upstream Linux kernel with open-source GPU/hardware drivers, not an Android kernel to access the outdated proprietary GPU/Hardware blobs.
The other problem is that Ubuntu is the "How do you do, fellow kids?" of FOSS operating systems.
It suffers from that less now since Canonical abandoned the project. UBPorts is AFAIK just a community project to keep it alive. I would've assumed they would drop the CLA stuff, but I guess they didn't want to or couldn't for whatever reason?
no they don't. they do have a partnership with Murena, which sells them preinstalled with /e/, which is a degoogled Android ROM. there is a Ubuntu Touch port available for some Fairphone models though.
So that would be a yes. Yes they do.
And Why are we being confrontational about this?
Just signed up to donate 5 euros a month. Took me about 45 seconds.
Legend! :D
I thought graphene was the best daily driver for the moment ?
Graphene is currently the best daily driver for the average person, but as they are a hardened Android fork, they are still somewhat reliant on Google playing ball.
PostmarketOS is not ready for the average person, but it is our best long-term option since it is not based on Android at all.
It's the best option we have.
Wow, that guy is an absolute putz. Like, postmarketOS literally tells you that their shit is not ready for prime time and to be ready for it to be a little bit wonky right now. And this guy is acting like they're advertising it as it is ready for Freddy and it's just garbage or something. Not to mention the way he installed it was just stupid. My 8-year-old niece could do this better than he did.
I think I'll find a video made by somebody more competent.
He's a comedian. His videos aren't meant to be taken seriously.
Comedians really need to stop using that line to justify being putzes, as it ignores the fact that they have a very real influence on people's perceptions, and therefore the decisions they make and the overall trajectory of society.
Every media personality needs to recognize this responsibility, regardless of whether or not their content is intended to be "serious."
"It's just a joke, bro." Yeah, well your "joke" is actively harming the development and adoption of one of our only potential ways out of this duopoly of walled gardens.
The channel description says
SAMTIME is probably the only channel on the internet not smelling the farts of the big tech companies! From Apple to Samsung, Huawei to OnePlus, we make fun of everyone and tell it like it is (aaand maybe exaggerate just a little if it's funny).
and that seems about right from the handful of videos I've watched. He spends a lot more time mocking big tech firms than poking fun at Linux.
If his intention is to mock big tech, then mocking linux and the only viable alternatives to big tech is kinda misplaced.
The intention is to mock everything in tech. He mostly mocks big tech, but nothing is immune.
Is that why Resonosity posted it as a hyperlink questioning whether it's the best option we have at the moment?
People shouldn't joke about Linux phones because somebody might not get the joke?
On the other hand, there's a truth underlying the joke: Linux phones are only really ready for a narrow set of users. I say that as a partial member of that set: I have PostmarketOS installed on a phone. It's fun to play with, but I wouldn't like to use it an my main phone yet. I hope it gets there some day.
Okay, well there's an honest way of saying "it's not quite ready for use as a daily driver yet, but the devs are actively working towards it" (which Postmarket openly admits) and saying "It's a piece of shit, it's unusable" like the guy in the video says.
Imagine there's an election coming up and these are the two candidates in your district: "Yeah, we're going to lock you out of your houses if you don't buy our special keys from us, you can only install appliances that we approve of, and only come and go from your house to go where and when we approve." And the other guy is saying "That's bullshit, no one should have that much power over your personal choices. We're going to make sure that never happens."
And you repost a video of a "comedian" trashing the second candidate because he was a bartender in college, or he wears tan suits, or eats dijon mustard, or laughs funny.
Do you see the issue?
“It’s a piece of shit, it’s unusable” like the guy in the video says.
He doesn't say anything like that. He points out the notice it shows on first use saying it's unfinished and soliciting bug reports, then ends by acknowledging they're working for free and it's a work in progress. Despite the comedic tone, that's an accurate assessment; PostmarketOS is currently suitable for hobbyists and developers only.
In the middle he tries several times to make a phone call and never succeeds. If anybody is treating this as a serious review to decide whether they should use the same setup around the time the video was published, "unusable" might indeed be a reasonable conclusion, assuming they want to make phone calls on their phone.
Ah, well you caught me. I didn't actually watch the video. I was just going off of the comment above that said:
Like, postmarketOS literally tells you that their shit is not ready for prime time and to be ready for it to be a little bit wonky right now. And this guy is acting like they're advertising it as it is ready for Freddy and it's just garbage or something.
Nah fuck that guy. Supposed comedian who roasts big tech apple glazer in reality
Long-term, yes. It isn't ready as a daily driver for the average person (hence why I used the term 'build up'), but there is realistically no other option that can truly be called community owned like PostmarketOS can. It's our best shot at a permanent non-enshittified platform, it just needs our support so it can become polished and support more phones :)
At the end of the day, all you can really do is to start treating your phone more like a phone and stop carrying it everywhere and using it for everything.
The convenience of it has made it way too easy for people to spy on you.
No. You can do a lot more. You can develop alternatives and enforce anti monopoly legislation.
brb enforcing anti monopoly legislation
Stop scrolling, there's nothing but bullshit on the next screen, you're not missing out on anything
Not sure about you, but I actually lookup something useful from time to time, while being "in the field."
That's not what scrolling means in this context. If you are intentionally seeking out specific information, you may need to scroll, but you aren't "scrolling".
Yep. My disdain for the combination of fascist government where everything is surveillance, and sociopathic corporations and billionaires where everything is a cynical cash grab, overcame me excitement for tech "products" a long time ago. I'm in the US so it's especially bad.
I still have a smart phone that's 4-5 years old, and I do of course use it every day, but I consciously avoid using it every hour. I love when I misplace it in my own house, to then not look for it for hours. The only person who is going to message me anything urgent is my wife and she knows where to find me.
Constant phone addiction is one of those situations where when you remove yourself from it you can more easily see it in others. It's like there's a new form of body language where when you see that slight forward tilt of the head you know they are in the Phone Zone without even seeing the rest of their body.
I still have a smart phone that’s 4-5 years old,
Mine is an older model too, thankfully. I never needed the bells and whistles other people are into, which probably helps me stay more secure.
But I also just love that I'm not reaching for my pocket every 30 seconds for another dopamine hit too.
My wife would hate it, if I were no longer reachable.
No. I haven't used Google apps on my phone for years already. That includes Google Play Services and the Play Store. Most apps are open source and I'm self hosting my media.
We gotta claw this shit back.
In case you are looking for Google alternatives to other services, I highly recommend Organic Street Maps or Magic Earth or Kagi Maps instead of Google Maps. Also FreeTube or Yewtu.be instead of YouTube. And mail providers like Proton or Tuta Mail that are end-to-end encrypted. And VPNs like Proton or Mullvlad. And most of all search engines like DuckDuckGo or Ecosia or Kagi or Tor to onionize your search experience. There are many alternatives to Google. I try to recommend for people to move away from Google where they can. I realize Google has worked their way into many websites and can be hard to get around in that sense, but ad blockers and DNS resolvers like uBlock Origin and NextDNS help to prevent tracking from Google.
Do you have a good alternative to drive? Specifically we use it to share files in our household.
If you’re comfortable using a NAS, that is probably the best option, but Proton offers drive storage services that are end-to-end encrypted. For photos Ente Photos is a good option.
Google’s algorithms go through all the files you upload to their servers and check them for anything that might go against their terms of service. I mean you could encrypt yourself prior to uploading, but that’s a lot of work. If their algorithm labels even one file as violating their terms of service, they may lock you out of all your data and your account. Their appeal process is useless and is likely just checked by the same algorithm that closed the account in the first place or rubber stamped by a person who goes through thousands of reports a day. Most appeals are rejected and they just delete lifetimes of data/memories like it’s nothing. Of course backups are recommended. Their AI algorithms were rolled out too soon and should never be used as judge, jury, and executioner for people’s data.
Google reports cartoon images and family photos as well. Forbes for reported on it (https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/12/20/google-scans-gmail-and-drive-for-cartoons-of-child-sexual-abuse/). They closed a biggish profile YouTube channels account for cartoons as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naoki_Saito). Same for family photos/medical photos, of which there are plenty of reports from various news networks, the most prominent were probably the three from the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html, https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/30/technology/google-appeals-change.html, and https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/27/technology/google-youtube-abuse-mistake.html). Plus more from El Pais (https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2022-09-19/google-closed-my-account-over-sexual-content-but-theyre-not-telling-me-what-it-is-and-ive-lost-everything.html), Buisness Insider (https://www.businessinsider.com/google-users-locked-out-after-years-2020-10?op=1), Android Police (https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/03/08/when-google-locks-you-out-of-your-account-begging-the-internet-for-help-is-your-first-and-last-resort/), India Times (https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2022-09-19/google-closed-my-account-over-sexual-content-but-theyre-not-telling-me-what-it-is-and-ive-lost-everything.html), etc. And tons of self reporting (https://piunikaweb.com/2026/02/03/google-photos-false-csam-flags-users-locked-out/).
My point is that it is not black and white or as simple as don’t download it. There are plenty of cases in which a person would not know such as downloading an AI training set (https://www.404media.co/a-developer-accidentally-found-csam-in-ai-data-google-banned-him-for-it/). If they truly wanted to follow the law, it would be knowing possession that should end with a persons account being terminated. All other cases should end with maybe the file reported and deleted. But their system is highly flawed and most appeals are denied, which is nonsense when less then 1% of these reports end up with an arrest and even fewer lead to convictions (https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:pr592kc5483/cybertipline-paper-2024-04-22.pdf).
To be honest, I don’t think this is all a failure of Google or Meta or Microsoft, but the NCMEC and Thorn. They are the real threat to child safety, as they use their platform to claim to want to save children, but have other agendas (https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/08/the-many-reasons-why-ncmecs-board-is-failing-its-mission-from-a-ncmec-insider/ and https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760). Plus, at least Thorn has been found to lie about their numbers of children rescued (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kutcher-software-child-trafficking/).
All Google, and the others, are doing is over reporting and making harder to find actual criminals. It hardly worth celebrating when one is caught while thousands of innocent people are being harmed. There needs to be penalties for false reports or an ability for people to reclaim their data/accounts when cleared of wrongdoing. The number of false positives is absurd and Facebook and LinkedIn researchers have both found it to be highly erroneous (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/08/googles-scans-private-photos-led-false-accusations-child-abuse?language=en).
I think we desperately need data privacy and data protection laws. And the “think of the children” or “I have nothing to hide” arguments against them are just trickle down ideas from these data brokers who profit heavily from invading personal data.
Do you have custom ROM + no gapps? Gets harder and harder if you want a new phone once in a while.
Bought the Fairphone with e/OS.
Problem is many see Android equivalent with Samsung and Samsung is the worst when it comes to customize your HW because they really lock down their shit.
For my phone I just bought a new battery after many years of use and it's back to working as if it's new. Before that I had a Shift phone (with Google, I think) which allowed me to replace the camera module once the autofocus in the camera broke.
Not sure if I'm old fashioned, but I like to own my devices and modify them if I please.
I have thought about trying to get away from shit but it's hard. If I want to stop using my phone regularly I need to purchase a GPS unit, wire up a charger for it on both my bikes (go deep in woods some times so I use gaia on my phone to figure out where I am), I'd need to get an mp3 player for music, and no more scheduling everything on my phone calendar. It's an effort, but the more this convenience starts to cost (both in $ and privacy) the more willing I am to make the effort. Another major gripe I have with phones is their all so goddamn big now too, last comfortable to hold phone I had was a damned s3 now everything is a mini tablet and I have big hands. My SO hates phone shopping cuz her hands are tiny! Can't hold the damn things with one hand anymore lol
If you are going through this much effort you could consider getting an /e/OS or GrapheneOS Phone?
My buddy has a pixel with graphene and loves it. I am not familiar with /e/os how does it compare? I have a not terribly old Moto G (2025) right now as it was the cheapest phone I could get locally after loosing my last one deep in the green mountians so I hate to have to get a new phone again already as this one seems to be unsupprted by either G or E os's
Graphene os gives more options. If your minimalist you can use the phone as-is without a Google account, it has all the basic apps you need. If you need more you can install f-droid and use Foss apps. And finally I'd you still want Google based apps, you can set up sandboxed Google Play and use it as a fully featured android phone, all while keeping granular permissions on the Google Play services, depending on what you need it for.
I don’t know your budget but I got a pixel 9 that I put graphene on, and a year of 10gb monthly cell service for 550 total. The pixel was from eBay, and the cell service is from usmobile. You could go cheaper with a pixel 8 and a different provider
Yea. Also have an old moto g and am sad to find that E and G os are not compatible.
I like to run poverty spec phones because I have a poor track record of breaking them. Shit I shattered a phone screen picking up a tire once, and I run case and screen protector at all times. I can't be having a 600$ device in my pocket lmfao too big a loss when the inevitable happens.
Same here. Neuropathy fucked my hands so I drop shit all the time and phones have become unwieldy as fuck since touchscreens became the norm.
I literally shattered my phone screen dropping it on a skittle once.
But what about D?
I understand.
It's a bummer what we have to consider to avoid people snooping, but it's (at least in my humble opinion), necessary.
A good way to start breaking the habit and only using it when you need it is to just keep it in another area of your home. I keep mine in a bathroom drawer.
A big one is just using a real computer for things that are actually better on a real computer. Don't browse the web or deal with emails on the phone, for example. Make a habit of grabbing a laptop, or even sitting down to a desktop to do those things.
We need go start talking about the year of the GNU/Linux phone
Or the year of free (as in freedom) pocket computers, since the global telephony system goes against the freedoms.
PostmarketOS isn't GNU
Anyways it'd be interesting to see more niche OSes on phones (there's a mobile port of Genode/Sculpt OS for example)
Concerning that this thread is overrun with bots telling me to download some super duper safe LLM
Yeah this whole comment section is weird as fuck.
Naw it happens, usually an instance goes rampant with bot accounts and gets nuked. It's like the early days of Reddit round here.
it's never been your phone, bruh
especially if it's using sim/esim card. Those mobile carriers can literally do whatever the fuck they want to your phone and there's nothing you can do about it.
Google doing this is just the equivalent of what Apple has been doing for a while.
People need to buy more Linux phones. It's the only way for the tech to improve.
I saw a Defcon talk about SIM cards a few years ago, really interesting stuff.
Most people treat SIM cards as just an ID to get on a carrier's network, but they are soo much more.
When SIM cards were developed, they were designed to be the core of your phone, your handset would be just that, handset that would only run the software on the SIM card.
SIM cards are small computers, they have a CPU, RAM and storage, they can run apps on the SIM card itself and only present the UI to the phone.
With my first phones, I remember the contacts being stored on the SIM card itself, it usually took 30-60 sec to load them after a phone restart. But bloody convenient when switching phones, this was way before iCloud and other similar services, and moving your SIM card moved all your contacts as well.
Since SIM cards are controlled by the operator, they can do stuff that might surprise you, they can act as a trusted source for signing/encrypting/storing data, the user does not have direct access to tamper with the chip, so security apps have been developed to run on SIM cards, I don't know the current status on this, but in countries with limited/older infrastructure, this was used for bank security apps, since the SIM is a locked down system, you can use it to securely store a key, and have the SIM use the key to generate a token, sign requests and even encrypt data, all without the key leaving the SIM.
Here is the talk I mentioned:
Also the baseband chip for 4G/5G is yet another self contained computer you don't control. Shit's egregious.
Thanks for the video link.
SIM cards are small computers, they have a CPU, RAM and storage, they can run apps on the SIM card itself and only present the UI to the phone.
Someone once managed to contain a very small webserver in it.
Jolla isn't in the US at least AFAIK. And outside that I'm not really aware of other similar options available here. I'm looking at maybe getting something I can root and wipe to run linux. But that's beyond most people's ability and desire.
I've been eyeing the furi phone. I like the hardware switches for modem/GPS, camera, and microphone.
especially if it's using sim/esim card. Those mobile carriers can literally do whatever the fuck they want to your phone and there's nothing you can do about it.
Wow that's wild, how does my SIM card allow my carrier to do whatever they want to my phone?
On the face of it, that sounds like a gigantic breach of privacy. Can they look at my photos, capture my screen, read my stored app data, intercept outbound Internet traffic before it's encrypted, etc? That's wild.
Not to mention that I bought my phone separately, so it's got nothing to do with them. As one might imagine, I only added a SIM in order to receive traditional telephone calls, it's not otherwise useful to me.
Oh how fun is that the definition of "phone" has changed.
This is all speculation on my side but it can't look into your files or anything. What we call a smartphone today is actually a combination of a very powerful computer and a telephone in the same chassis. The SIM card can do a lot in the phone part of your smartphone: send/receive/process messages, calls, track your location etc. not open and see through your camera though.
Do Linux phones need to run a Kickstarter?
More than that. Proper, real, hardware. And a bit more UI polish. The software is inching closer. But hardware wise there's very little real option. For the time being my existing android devices are going to be demoted to little more than modems for a small Linux portable. I badly want a real good hardware platform to run a mobile linux distro. I have an octo core ARM chromebook tablet running postmarket. It's a great experience apart from too little RAM. KDE Touch is pretty nice. And sits a bit under 500Mb idle. But the moment Firefox or Chrome launch we're swapping hard.
SailfishOS is a (non-Android) Linux phone that may be viable right meow!
SailfishOS runs fine (well?) on the Sony Xperia or the Jolla C2.
I just bought one a few weeks ago, but I haven't had time to fully set it up yet (my house has been falling apart). I'm in the US with Mint Mobile and calls and SMS work. Camera works. Battery life is pretty decent. They have an Android compatibility layer that integrates pretty well into Sailfish. I was able to install F-Droid on it and then Bitwarden and Molly (Signal client) so far.
One of the more trickier apps I may need to install is Tailscale... but I'm thinking maybe I can switch to Netbird and use their reverse proxy and remove the need to install a VPN client on the phone altogether.
I'm not a heavy smartphone user, so for me I'm thinking this might be a viable path to take.
p.d. Yes, you can bring up a terminal. :)
Unfortunately, Sailfish OS uses a proprietary (closed source) android compatibility layer, as well as a closed source UI.
For the parts they have open-sourced, they implementrd a CLA that contributers must sign. It's the HA-CLA-I-ANY license, which specifically allows them a perpetual Copyright and Patent license, and permission to relicense your code contributions to a more restrictive license which enables them sell or package it into a closed-source proprietary app.
Personally I'd be more comfortable supporting the development of PostmarketOS instead, since it is completely open-source with no CLA, meaning no chance of any rug-pulling in the future.
It's unfortunate that it isn't open source. Their AppSupport feature looks so great though. Hopefully it's possible to do something similar in postmarketOS.
PostmarketOS has a similar ability thanks to Waydroid, though I've never used it myself.
I know but what I meant is having the Android compatibility layer integrated into the OS itself so that Android apps are available directly in postmarketOS, like they are in SailfishOS. Waydroid is cumbersome since you have to launch that first to then be able to open the app you want.
#WorthIt
SailfishOS seems to run quite nicely, but has the limitations listed by you.
PostmarketOS seems to run a tad worse, but is fully open source.
Wouldn't it make sense to support both, because otherwise there's some danger of a chicken and egg situation:
people don't use PostmarketOS, because it doesn't work well enough. People don't support PostmarketOS, because they don't use it.
SailfishOS could pave the way for people using Linux phones and developing the need for completely open source ones after they realize the limitations of SailfishOS.
I can see that happening to me at least, because I ordered a Jolla phone with SailfishOS, which will hopefully be delivered in a few months (batch #3). I chose SailfishOS over PostmarketOS because of their Android app compatibility layer being fully aware this part isn't open source and that I will eventually trying to get rid of that situation.
The demand for having a Linux phone soon that may be able to become my daily driver was more pressing than facing the risk of getting frustrated by PostmarketOS.
I would like a little more gurantee of effort/return than the TOS of Kickstarter has, but I would totally invest in a Linux phone. I would drop almost the entire cost of the phone down as deposit if it meant I could have it in a year and be guaranteed one.
TempleOS phone, when?
Hold my lithium
People thinking this isn't a monopoly enforcement action in disguise are the same people who think banning Huawei was justified.
Google's one mistake was that they sold Motorolla to Lenovo, who ran it as low cost shovelware to make the mobile phone market in the US not look like a complete oligopoly. They kept their cost low by using complete stock Google ROMs while every other OEM exited the market.
Until recently when Lenovo properly built up their hardware lineup and started jumping ship to GrapheneOS the moment Google started clamping down.
That and thinking that they won't be sued to oblivion for this. People are looking for ways to do lawsuits and this is a big one
Of course the US won't do jack shit. Google always wins in reality even when they lose in US antitrust courts. But other countries can maybe win. Please do!
"Android fans"
Android Hostages lol, what am I supposed to do use an Iphone?
Yes
Yes, the much more open iPhone.
Not for much longer.
Android will still be more open than iPhone.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Ok, so I might as well buy an iPhone then because this is the only thing android did better lmao. Fuck you google.
Use GrapheneOS. It's degoogled android. Currently you have to install it yourself on a Pixel phone but AFAIK Motorola is working on releasing device with Graphene pre installed
looks like I know what my next phone purchase will. and new, even.
I hate Mussolini, i'll side with that Hitler guy
Sadly Jolla only offers their products in the EU, for those of us in North America we just have to flash old Sony models, or look on with envy, as far as a phone with Sailfish OS goes. The one thing that bothers me is not all of Sailfish is open source though, but overall I think its a cool project.
Do they actually make it better or does their marketing say so?
considering, EU aside, that you can't load software on an iphone outside of the App Store, I'd say yes.
Even in the EU there isn't really an alt store ecosystem apart from the epic game store
It’s made better, especially if you have additional Apple products.
I already feel the angry fanboys, so I’m ready for downvotes.
Love how every comment in this thread is just the same guy spamming some AI bullshit website. They are all 1 day old accounts from Lemmy.cafe instance. Blocked all of them.
I was just getting home picking up my new second hand Pixel 3a to install PostmarketOS on. Wish me luck :)
I got grapheneOS on my phone right now. Go fuck yourself, google.
I will also do my damn best to make sure my older Samsung S23 doesn't fall into that version. I have uses for that phone.
Yea but you had to buy a google phone right or do they support more phones now
You are right to point out that this hardware dependency on Google is bad and obviously this wouldn't work for everyone if everyone were to switch to GrapheneOS, but you can totally buy a used Pixel if you don't want to give more money to Google.
Sadly I had to. But Motorola did support... before I got a Samsung I had a grapheneOS compatible Motorola, but it broke down.
Motorola is starting to offer grapheneOS compatible phones or so they said, on the regular.
Can you explain a bit more? I've had one laying around for 2 years and haven't updated it.
I currently run GraphineOS. I will probably buy one more refurb phone that can run it until Android is dead. Then I am switching to a dumb phone for calls and SMS, and a mobile hotspot connected to a pocket sized cyberdeck. I can still run the apps I want and no longer need Android. With a 3d printer, 25 years of being an electrical and software engineer I can easily make a device that does what I actually want.
Is this practical for the average person? Of course not. But this whole problem is something the average person can fix. STOP BUYING SHIT FROM COMPANIES WHO SCREW YOU!!! Use your power as a consumer and stop giving them money. Make them feel the pain of doing anti-consumer actions. None of this stuff is a requirement for life. If they see a hit in sales, if everyone who makes apps pulls them from the app store, they will change. But it requires everyone to act, and we damn well know most of yall will do nothing but complain.
This problem is a foot gun where we are all buying the gun, loading it, handing it to someone while sticking our foot out and we want to blame them for the bloody hole. Stop it!
-- sincerely Apple users.
About to...?
As a person who uses a few sideloaded apps, this is sad news.
Well, as far as I know the current idea is that you'll have to toggle a setting in developer options and wait 24 hours (once). After that you can sideload unverified stuff as much as you like. So it's not horribly sad, I´d say.
I actually kind of think that's a reasonable change. It improves safety for the clueless majority, but it still gives those that know what they are doing a free reign with a minor initial inconvenience. And I kind of feel like articles still claiming how horrible this all is are mostly just outrage farming. Unless the plans have changed to something more fucked up, that is.
No, it's not reasonable. Fuck the clueless majority. Stupid people should be prevented from hurting others, but they should not be prevented from hurting themselves. If you manage to download malware that's on you, no big brother should ever be controlling what you can and can't install on your personal fuckin devices. I'm a fucking adult and I do not need or want some bullshit fucking kid mode imposed on my personal shit because Google went full fucking nazi. Companies have no business dictating how you use your own purchases property. Imagine your fucking car saying nah you've already driven twenty miles today it's not safe for you to drive more and just shutting the fuck down. Every motherfucker making these decisions in every industry need to be publicly gruesomely executed. The owner class needs to remember who they're accountable to.
I have some bad news for you about cars…
If that's the case, then Google really needs to fix the play store because you can absolutely get malware from there. This change is mostly to start locking down the ecosystem to force users to only be able to pay Google a cut of all revenue on the platform (apple already does this). It's bullshit, and it hopefully backfires for Google.
Google also allowed malware ads, and phishing ads since its existence
This change is the opposite. It makes it possible for a user to install the Epic Games Store from their website without seeing a scary warning, and Google won't get a cut of any of the revenues from that store. The same with any other company. Netflix can now offer their app from their website, and people can install it without any warning, and Netflix won't have to send any revenue to Google for people who subscribe in the app.
Uh, no it's not. Quite literally the opposite actually. You can get apks for your apps outside of the play store currently, just have to install them yourself (yeah, you need to check a box to install third party apps once, but that's it). The proposed change from google is mostly to make that harder, and make most users locked more into the play store ecosystem so that Google gets their cut from everything.
Uh, no it's not.
It is. As a result of the Epic Games v. Google, Android builds with the Play Store are required to allow users to install apps without any warning at all. They obviously can't allow any app to be installed without a warning because this would be a boon to malware authors, so this is now enabled with verification. You can now even share apps you build with your friends without requiring them to go through an unverified apps flow with a scary warning. Additionally, Google is not allowed to take a revenue cut from those installs.
You're confused because the install process for apps that are not verified (a path that didn't exist before at all) or installed from a system app store has changed. This now has to be done with adb, which takes effect immediately, or via an on-phone process that takes a day to complete. Once it is done, this setting is copied to new phones, so the process actually becomes easier for most people who do this because they don't have to go through the process repeatedly.
Publicly traded companies are soulless entities that are legally bound to 1 and only 1 goal, short term profits. Any time you see a company do something stupid, ineffectual, completely pointless, ect., then what you are seeing is step one in a plan. It is costing them money and future profits to make these changes that they know will be wildly unpopular just to maybe, sort of, possibly could, but won't really, protect a very small number of the dumbest people on the planet? No, companies ruin, poison, make homeless, and kill people constantly while being completely aware of what they are doing. They do it and continue to come up with new ways to do it because they have just the 1 goal, profit. So, if this is not altruism then what is it? That's what people are upset about. Because there are a lot of reasons for them not to do this, but the only reasons for them to do it are all bad in addition to violating their 1 goal. And they are still doing it anyway.
It will kill off projects that rely on sideloading. Slowly, but if you need to do the dance, fewer and fewer people will use them.
I'm not sure that's true. Fewer, sure, although not necessarily that much fewer. But "fewer and fewer", I don't think so. It's not big enough of a hurdle to dissuade anyone who has already done it once.
boooooo
If that's the plan that is perfectly reasonable to me. Thank!
This was just inevitable for Google. Google is no longer an open source company. Hasn't been for maybe a decade or more. They abused the good spirit of open source for their corporate benefit and are ending that relationship on their terms. Get used to it Android users.
We must all keep pushing people to go against this and to build up Linux mobile alternatives: PostmarketOS, Ubuntu Touch, JollaOS, and semi by extension, GrapheneOS
The problem is that the most important apps for users aren't on those platforms. Bank apps and identification apps. They need to make apps for those platforms first otherwise a switch makes no sense.
Also I have tried Ubuntu touch and it's a nightmare and dysfunctional. e_OS however works great.
Exactly, consumer choice only works as a force in a functional market. Phone OSs are very much not a functional market. This requires regulators to wake up.
agree, see also official government apps, like medical apps, post office, public transport, etc. i live in europe and those are usually necessary.
gOS is actually pretty good with bank apps
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
You are right, they have the most important banking apps for my home country. However, I wonder if you still have to install them via google play store API, like in /e/OS?
Edit: yepp, it is installed via google API and require spoofing the google certificate. This is as they write not a sustainable long term solution, as this could break at any time. Graphene themselves say that the only solution long term is to get governments to develop apps for graphene diectly.
I can only afford one phone and it has to be a successful daily driver.
That’s going to be the story of 90% of everyone affected right now too.
Running something like lineageos, graphene or e/os all can easily serve as a daily driver.
I would prefer that Alphabet keep Android open, but honestly, how can anybody be surprised? Eventually Google is going to tighten the screws on Android. I haven't looked into it, but hopefully there are some truly free options out there. Graphene?
if apple can profit and survive from a walled garden, google is only now seeing that as a PLUS.
Graphene is Android based. Not sure what it'd mean for them in case Android fully locks down.
The sideloading block will likely be enforced by Play Services, so GrapheneOS won't be affected. Android is also open source, so even if Google implements the block within Android itself, GrapheneOS can just remove it.
So far, yes. But what if they will close stuff down more? My understanding is majority of work on Android is done by Google - so they can decide it will no longer be open source, or just partially.
Google already squeezing grafene. Grafene can no longer use pixel deves, Google won't open new pixels.
Only new device they gonna get is some Motorola device not yet relesed
Source for new Pixels not being supported please?
Not sure if there is a definite confirmation on this, but I do remember there were hints that at some point they might not support new Pixels. No source on hand though, I only have vague recollection on this
Okay, thanks for the reply :)
They haven't said that Pixels won't be supported.
We gotta rush the EU to pass legislation to prevent monopolies like this.
The EU sadly seems to be trying to age restrict us all and to tie that to Android and iOS (with no custom ROM suport): https://leminal.space/post/31858818/21120139
A major hardware and software change is happening in my life too, Google, to excise you from every facet of my life.
I have felt this way about my phone for a long time. This is probably good because it will probably create a viable alternative to the apple-android ecosystem. Maybe Graphene will support more phones and new privacy focused mobile-OS will pop up.
I recently switched from Apple to a De-Googled Fairphone 6 (Murena e/OS), because I do not fully understand Graphine OS and I thought the Fairphone would be the easiest way to detach myself from Apple and Google.
Doin’ god’s work.
What happens to existing side loaded apps on my phone?
I believe nothing, Google still allows side loading via ADB and apparently sideloading is not exactly going anywhere, but when you want to install one, you have to wait 24 hours and reboot your phone, as I said though terminal bypasses these, it's just security stuff all again, I guess Google isn't very happy about society's widespread misinformation that Android is less secure than iOS
Maybe. That is unclear. If your app isn't verified, Google may or may not do something to "warn" you.
And whatever they do now is only the first step. They will soon lock it all down, because monetizing it gets them rich.
I've found it impossible to run apps from APKpure. Google Play gets in the way, stops the app from startup because "it might be malicious" and does not give you the option to run it anyway. I have sideloaded apps and run into the same problem. I'd read you can disable Google Play Services to get around it, but the apps themselves require it. These are just Japanese escape games, nothing sketchy.
Connect to PC, install ADB Platform tools, open up your terminal, "adb install app.apk"
Yes, I've done that.
Are there people who are angry out of principle/ideologically but who don't do sideloading etc? Because, I'd like to think that if you are angry enough at this, then you have the incentive and the will to root you phone (making it an unsupported device and making it NOT locked for sideloading) and go on with your life. I wish Google died like... Yesterday. Don't get me wrong. Am I missing something?
You make it sound like rooting is a simple opt-in. It is not. It is not possible on every phone, requires technical expertise, risks bricking your device, you will likely loose firmware update support, various apps (like banking apps) will stop working. It is a tough choice.
You're right. At the very least, users shouldn't be forced to make this choice. It's absurd how little authority we have over devices we have paid for with our hard earned money. :(
Which just seems stupid. Smartphone is a computer. When you want to run something as administrator on Windows, it's just a Yes/No prompt away, and Windows isn't some small thing either.
It is possible on every Google phone.
not all phones can be rooted nowadays, and when ot can it has other disadvantages too that the current method of avoiding play store does not have
I agree. People that lack the technical expertise or rooting compatible devices shouldn't be forced to even consider this. Once you have paid for a device, you should be allowed to do with it whatever the hell you want, without Google or other big tech shoving unsolicited policies down your throat.
So does this mean FDroid cannot be used with just any Android phone?
Yes.
Edit: Appoxo is right, technically you can still use f-droid on any phone. Check my comment below.
Huh?
They stated that there will be a bypass and to just wait 24 hours until you can install APKs as usual. Permanently without additional cooldowns.
It's another story how long this will stay but for now,your answer is false information.
Ok, technically you're right. You can still install apps from f-droid with any Android phone for now. The issue is more that most Android uses will not perform those steps so f-droid will not be able to reach them. People that are already using f-droid and understand what's going on are fine (for now).
and two years later they're gonna announce that according to their telemetry, not enough people are perfoming all those acrobatics to make maintaining it viable, and will close it off completely.
Exactly what I said.
Authenticate, wait, unlock indefinitely and then have fun.
Like I said. It's only a matter of "how long" that will stay but it's as of right now false information that it's completely impossible to bypass it on stock android.
so - yes, there is a bypass for an indefinitely enabled apk installation with the annoyance of 24 hour wait when you first get the phone.
not great though, I agree.
I am so confused about these changes, I thought I downloaded Jerboa through Fdroid. What does this message mean? The only option to continue using Jerboa is to root my phone?
Is this completely unrelated?
I means that to continue using Jerboa you will have to do what is described in my comment (the 9 step process).
They'll push the update through Google Play Services, so if your phone is Gapps free, you'll probably be able to continue to use F-Droid.
Anyone got any ideas on how to force another OS onto my phone? I'm fed up with it.
The best general resource for instructions on how to unlock your phone's bootloader and flash alternate AOSP ROM's or non-Android OS's is https://xdaforums.com/
Please note that not all carriers and oem's allow you to unlock the bootloader though, so choose your device carefully for this.
You will also most likely need a PC (desktop or laptop) with adb & fastboot on it. These are apps used in the terminal, but you only need to copy and paste a few commands into them to use it.
If you have a Google Pixel then best option is Graphene - https://grapheneos.org/
For other devices you can use a "degoogled" Android ROM and get apps from the open source F-Droid app store - https://f-droid.org/
Some choices for this are:
Lineage - https://lineageos.org/
crDroid - https://crdroid.net/
/e/os - https://e.foundation/e-os/
Iode - https://iode.tech/iodeos/
OR use a a true alternative mobile OS. Options for this are:
Ubuntu Touch - https://www.ubuntu-touch.io/
Sailfish OS - https://sailfishos.org/
Mobian - https://mobian-project.org/
Postmarket OS - https://postmarketos.org/
Plasma Mobile - https://plasma-mobile.org/
Droidian - https://droidian.org/
You can also purchase devices with alternative OS's already preinstalled from:
Volla - https://volla.online/en/devices/
Jolla - https://jolla.com/
Fairphone - https://fairphone.com/
Murena - https://murena.com/
Furilabs - https://furilabs.com/
Brax - https://www.braxtech.net/
In order to load a custom OS you first must be able to unlock the bootloader ofthe device. The list of OEMs allowing that is sadly getting smaller and smaller and vendors are becoming actively hostile towards custom firmware development.
see: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame
Keep in mind, that Brax uses misleading YouTube videos and their devices are as secure as my 2017 Redmi with LineageOS and a non-relockable bootloader (which I use with caution).
Also: mobile linux doesn't even offer the security of Secure boot on laptops (maybe Purism does, as they have a good track record on their laptops).
Please don't be an idiot, use GrapheneOS as it is the only security focused mobile OS.
"Don't be an idiot" - yet the big idiocy I see over & over on the Fediverse are Graphene evangelists that want to knee jerk condemn the multitudes of other mobile libre projects that are doing some good things, with its supposed (and disputable) "perfect".
Graphene is indeed the current best solution towards security hardening for mobile devices, and I would certainly recommend it as first choice especially for anyone working in truly sensitive areas (e.g. journalism, political activism, closed source design, utility maintenance, etc.), or for whom anyone for which security is their primary concern.
However - at this point Graphene is 100% dependent on Google for continuance - both to a large extent the coding of its AOSP base, for the timely security updates Graphene prides itself on, AND in ALL of the hardware it currently supports. As such, given Google's direction, with the next gen Pixel phones likely not to be easily unlockable, and with security updates possibly only provided in a timely way to an insiders list of oem's, until Graphene issues their own devices, or expands beyond only Pixel support, it faces a potential expiry date (similar to what has happened for CalyxOS).
Meanwhile there are TONS of use cases of people with devices from all kinds of oem's, that simply want an experience on these that offers better privacy and more digital sovereignty relative to what Google & Apple offer. As such one can achieve a close to an ad free & data mining free, with much less overall tracking, experience on all of the solutions I listed. And many of these solutions, unlike Graphene, do not depend on Google for their software & hardware. Do some of these solutions have flaws in their security & privacy? Absolutely. For which the thing they need is folks to join in to help fix these flaws. And I've been happy to see increased momentum across lots of these projects to do exactly that recently.
I haven't looked into it much yet but grapheneOS has apparently come a far way and has an easy installer nowadays.
Only reason I've paused is I have to use a private 2fa authenticator for work and not sure if it'd work on the OS, but it looks like they've gotten most major bank apps work on it so that's one less obstacle
Unfortunately they don't support any devices besides Google's Pixel: https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
Supporting at least major Samsung models would help adoption.
GrapheneOS puts 0 compromises on user-security in addition to privacy. They don't really have anything to gain by supporting less secure hardware to drive adoption.
Motorola seems to be cashing in on providing the alternative, though, which is a win for everyone
Unfortunately Samsung is making it more difficult to impossible to unlock the bootloaders of their recent devices, but you can reflash some of their older models at least to ROM's like crDroid - https://crdroid.net/
Had not idea, that really sucks. Guess im in the same boat with samsung..
Buying Samsung is never the solution to anything. Plus, Motorola will have some cutting edge devices supported by GOS in about a year or so.
Or so....
I hope that means under a year, haha.
Saying the year of the Linux phone is the new year of the Linux desktop.
For me it has been the year of the Linux desktop for the last 8 years. I haven't missed anything for this long. I'm looking to get some detachable laptop, Intel 10th gen or newer to install CachyOS + GNOME on it, and make this the year of the Linux tablet for me. For the Linux phone, I'm not holding my breath, but certainly hope it isn't long before we can just choose to get rid of Android as well.
which 2fa do you use for work? microsoft? authy?
Authy doesnt work so I am transferring all to Keepass Not sure about microsoft though
Its their own proprietary one, not sure what runs underneath it.
It's not an easy install if it literally can't be fucking installed on most devices.
Had no idea, no reason to get hostile about it.
Sorry, I've had a lot of assholes telling people to use GrapheneOS like it's super easy for most people to just go out and get a specific phone that is relatively low in market share (making them harder to find second hand too) like it's as easy as running to the store for a loaf of bread and they get super aggressive when called out on it and it has, in turn, been pissing me off.
GrapheneOS is legitimately great IF you have a device that can run it, which most people don't. A lot of it's fans are raging assholes. Sorry for assuming you were one of them.
No worries, I had actually assumed that with all the people suggesting it it was a bit more ubiquitous, but apparently I was mistaken.
You just won the most moronic phrase of the week. That's like saying there's no point to sd cards because there are devices that don't have a way ro use them.
If you were already talking about limited storage on devices that typically can't use SD cards, then yes, you're a fucking idiot if you say "Just use an SD card to increase your storage! It's EASY!" Which is what you're doing when people are talking about Android issues and you say the same fucking thing about GrapheneOS.
TL;DR: There's a moron here, but it isn't me.
Yes, everyone cares enough, they will definitely change that.
As far as I know, people are too stupid to even understand what sideloading is (it is about that, right? Edit: yes.)
E/Os all the way. Fuck Google
How's the security/privacy? I don't expect it to be as good as Graphene, but I'm not interested in buying a Google phone.
Is it good enough that I won't have to worry about it? Any uses I should avoid on e/os?
Just make sure you can relock the bootloader after you install the e/os ROM or anyone with a USB cable can do as they please with your phones OS. AFAIK that feature is limited to pixel phones and some fair phones, so your options are a bit slim.
Definitely this. I have the Fairphone 6 and relocked bootloader afterwards. Installed NetGuard for added security
Was it really ever?
If AluminumOS takes off and overtakes Windows and Mac marketshare, desktops are headed in the same direction as mobiles.
Gross, combining Chrome OS with Android? NO thanks! Another OS to harvest data to the max! "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not apply to Google at this point.
On top of desktops getting turned from the last remotely open platform into existence into locked-down black boxes fully controlled by Google if AluminumOS actually succeeds, and Google's positioning it in a way that it might just succeed, positioning it in between Win10 getting deprecated and Win11's continuing enshittification, Google could just severely undercut the cheapest Win11 PCs and the Macbook Neo and gain marketshare by selling AluminumOS devices as a significantly cheaper option than Win11 PCs or Macs. If that happens, and that tactic actually works and PCs and Macs get overtaken in the desktop market by AluminumOS devices, it's game over for desktops as an open platform.
Keep dreaming! Chrome OS and Chromebooks in general are nearly as expensive as actual windows PCs with 5%the functionality. Just go straight up Linux at that point!! Free, open source, EASY to install or dual boot even. It is far better than anything Google would put out.
If you've never tried it, follow any one of the million guides for Ubuntu or Mint and you'll be amazed. Even Steam OS, CachyOS, ZorinOS, or other gaming oriented systems.
I forget this isn't the privacy thread, but you can't just "hope" Google's going to fix everything wrong with Windows when they're doing the same exact thing as each other. You want to break free, you want functional, you want privacy, get Linux.
I'm calling AluminumOS out as the threat that it potentially is if it actually gains traction. If AluminumOS takes off and overtakes Windows and Mac for desktop marketshare, desktops will be guaranteed to end up being locked down like mobiles. I'm actually scared about AluminumOS and how it's being positioned.
Oh, and I'm on Artix right now.
...you can’t just “hope” Google’s going to fix everything wrong with Windows when they’re doing the same exact thing as each other.
- I'm not, I'm hoping AluminumOS doesn't actually take off and succeed because Google's gonna make things even worse than they already are with Windows. Like, at least you can still uninstall Windows, you can't really uninstall Android anymore, and if AluminumOS takes off and overtakes Windows for marketshare, that same restriction will be applied there too. Like I said, if AluminumOS takes off and becomes the dominant desktop OS, Google is going to lock down desktops like they're about to lock down phones.
Ohhh OK! My bad, I misinterpreted that as excitement not alertedness.
I've been deGoogling things at home already, and. DeMicrosofting as much as one can at home and work too. I've been relying heavily on Non-US tech a lot lately and got to alleviate some additional issues, by migrating away.
It's really worrisome to think about the worsened mass surveillance than what it already is.
That's fine.
As long as you can build a computer from off the shelf parts we are fine in that regard. They can't stop FOSS OSs from working.
tbh the only thing that keeps people from jumping to a full deGoogle phone or an open source Linux phone is app. More specifically, IM and chat apps.
Social media and all those entertainment like Youtube, we can access via a good web browser. But those IM apps? Very hard because you can try to use an alternative, but people around you dont.
Your phone will be the same phone after September as it was beforehand.
On the long-term, I'd make some plans, get a small laptop, or even a linux phone, even as a second device to tether.
Yeah, this isn't going to get "better", this is going to get walked into a walled garden.
Get out or stay put, your call.
Hopefully this pushes Linux on Mobile devices to be a more daily drivable platform at least. Otherwise, guess we're fucked since there's no way Google will give in to the backlash since if memory serves me correctly they NEVER have. It's almost like they're basically a monopoly and can be as anti-consumer as they want or something...
Well, there’s that & whatnot.
Haaa
Does this effect patched apps? Like YouTube Revanced
Yes, you side load it. Even morohious that patches the apps on your phone that are signed. You still need to side load the initial app.
There is Huawei Harmony OS.
Chinese, etc, and I don't know about licenses, but it's mostly compatible with Android apps. I have a Huawei tablet, with awesome hardware, but de googled from the get go. I mainly use it as a media consumption device, though. No mail, banks, etc.
Why has being in a state of constant "information" flow become so important for people? It's not even relevant, important, or interesting information, just a never-ending nerve-jangling assault of slop, ADHD nonsense, and generic crap.
Because emotional maturity requires being comfortable sitting with yourself and your thoughts without any noise. A surprising amount of people can't cope with the lack of noise.
Anyone else thinking this is an anti-piracy measure? Google made similar moves to change web browsers to make aure you see ads. I'm sure they're not happy people keep blocking their ads on android. Ads are their core business model.
Thats the impression that I get.
P. S. I heard somewhere Amazon is moving their fire devices off of android to combat piracy as well.
This isn’t about piracy. This is about forcing you to use their Play Store. It sounds like exactly the same thing but it’s not.
Hot take: This is to stop the slop tsunami.
When any idiot can vibe code some slop app, things are going to get out of hand very fast.
But the play store is already completely filled with slop garbage, AI notwithstanding.
What?
I think I commented on the wrong thread. Someone was talking about removed, this awful website that does awful things to people, and I might have clicked on the wrong topic and shared my thoughts on it. Mis-clicked.
Google said installing apps from unverified developers is still going to be possible, you just have to wait for a 24 hours delay once to unlock the setting: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/03/android-developer-verification.html
What's with all these posts making it sound like sideloading is going to be removed from android?
Because they are manufacturing consent for closing the platform, calling installing apps from other stores "sideloading" and hiding the options behind "SUPERDUPERDANGEROUS" warnings, making you wait 24h for literally just installing software on your own phone. They know 99% of people won't even bother. It's obvious what they want to do, this is a step back because of the outrage, have no doubts that they're gonna keep pushing it
You had to enable the "installing from other sources" setting long before this change, and there are people who did that. How many of those would now stop doing that just because of the one-time wait?
I stopped because the phones now have a 60 second wait time. It's frustrating when all you want to do is install something you have used forever. Fuck google
Samsung has been doing this for ages
Untrue. You can install whatever you want on Samsung's android variant.
This change makes it so you can't install software (such as F-Droid, NewPipe, Google Camera, Samsung Notes, etc.) from APK, unless you install them directly from Google's Play Store [without going through unnecessary hoops and 24-hour delays].
And, pretending "Samsung has been doing this for ages", it doesn't make it right.
[Edit for clarity]
This change makes it so you can't install software (such as F-Droid, NewPipe, Google Camera, Samsung Notes, etc.) from APK, unless you install them directly from Google's Play Store [without going through unnecessary hoops and 24-hour delays].
This change was precipitated by a change that allows you to install an app outside the Play Store without the user seeing a scary warning or going through the existing hoops, as required by the Epic Games v. ruling.
Lot of assumptions here, and you know what they say about that. Samsung absolutely has a wait timer to unlock bootloader, especially from Verizon or T-Mobile.
Don't put words in my mouth
You're right, you are making a lot of assumptions. No one said anything about bootloader. This change doesn't change bootloader. This change is about apk installation. Reading the many available articles regarding this change helps in understanding it.
My man, I brought up bootloader, I was talking about it, if you didn't get that that's on you. Conversations don't just stick to the one thing you want, typically it's a group effort, but don't worry in the future I'll take it slow just for you
Don't assume I'm your man lol. It seems you're responding to the wrong thread, as no one mentioned bootloaders before your comment from an hour ago. Maybe you are, in fact, attempting to fabricate a conversation out of thin air. You lonely? If so, I'd be more than happy to have a genuine, respectful conversation with you, but none of this bullshit.
Once again, it doesn't matter if "noone mentioned it" I mentioned it, since it's time delayed lock is relevant, my man you really need to take a chill pill
Ok
Good man!
What if we locked up Google's store behind some obscure tech menu and make them wait a day? Then everyone would just use the built-in option, right? ... In what other industry would you say this is reasonable? How about waiting a day to buy groceries, or water, or gas for your car? ... Doesn't make sense, does it.
And why believe Google at all? A day now, but why not a week later. There's nothing stopping them from altering the deal. You, my friend, are in Lando's shoes. And you don't quite realize it yet. Tell you what, you're not allowed to reply for 24 hours. Go think about it.
I don't even believe them, but until that update is actually released, the announcement is just the information we have for now.
Tell you what, you're not allowed to reply for 24 hours. Go think about it.
Imho a better comparison would be not being allowed to post within the first 24 hours after signing up. Sure it would be annoying once, but not much of a deal in the long term.
Imho a better comparison would be not being allowed to post within the first 24 hours after signing up. Sure it would be annoying once, but not much of a deal in the long term.
The annoyance for more tech-savvy people is not the point, the issue is that it’s blatant railroading.
If a casual user needs to use, let’s say, a browser, they’re completely oblivious to the difference between them, and you tell them “you can choose between Edge or Firefox, but for Firefox you’ll have to wait 24h” it’s logical that they’ll pick Edge. Then they’ll get used to it and never switch.
It’s hindering the competition, basically market manipulation.
Imagine having to wait 24 hours to use something that you 'own'
Today I can just give a store like droid store permissions.. In future it will require 24h.. Or ot install with adb.. This is a big step backwards.
That said I've concluded the phone is now a device for accessing approved things.. For things I own its Linux PC/laptop/mini laptop acting like a table.. I guess my supernote reader is an android 8 device but its more limited use cases and they are going back to Linux too...
The phone is work access, bank access, and a browser.. I wish this didn't need to be a semi dedicated device but here we are.
This is being presented as more doom laden than is warranted. Ostensibly it is an effort to stop less technically able users from installing malware, certainly there will be unspoken ulterior motivations but such is the world we have allowed to grow around us. As far as overarching evil plans go this is quite a benign example.
This has to be just a first step though.
Yeah this was bound to happen at some point, the state of the App Store currently is just garbage.
Plus it’s not like this can’t be circumvented, you just have to go through a process and wait 24 hours once, not every time.
lol this is the truth and you got downvoted to hell
i thought lemmings actually knew a thing or two about linux
It's not about linux knowledge, but having 21 gullible readers who think google will not further the limitations
Its not true though.
You are catching it now too, but such is the way of it. People do not want levelled counter views and debate they want to scream bloody villainy and evil doings and then disappear into the crowd when everything turns out fine. And do it all in the name of free speech, as long as its only their speech of course.
For all þe memes about Apple fans þrowing money at Apple for minor phone updates every 10mos, on þe Android side þis will infuriate a small minority, but most Android users won't even notice and will continue to buy new Android phones every year, too.
Your comment's got some unreadable corrupted text there.
Nah it’s something they do intentionally for attention. Won’t be too long before you get an “ackchually” reply from them explaining what the character means
They’re not even using it correctly because it should be ðe and ðis as they’re soft voice sounds.
Yes and it's frustrating
To be fair I do the same thing. But come on, shouldn't the popularity of the character be a factor‽
No, they’re just a moron. Block them and move on with life. Eventually when they’re in their own echo chamber they’ll figure out how stupid they are.
It's a thorn, equivalent to a th. Some people get all worked up over them using it like the bloke shat on their mother's grave.
How could someone do something odd on Lemmy, bastion of normalcy?! It's so unusual and offensive!
/s
Weird character = th, it's the only one they replace