White House to host mass prayer event to promote Christian origins of the US
1mon 1d ago by reddthat.com/u/throws_lemy in news from www.france24.com
Top Trump administration officials will address a mass prayer meeting in the heart of Washington Sunday – an event organisers bill as reclaiming the country's religious foundations, but critics say is a quasi-official rally for Christian nationalism.
American Taliban
Y'all Qaeda
Talibrand
Yokel Haram/Broke-o Haram
ICEis
WhyDF
President of MAGAstan
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" -John Adams
"If God truly does exist, then he more so loves the atheist who questions the world around him than the Christian who blindly follows." -Thomas Jefferson
More than half of the Founding Fathers were atheists or agnostic.
And the rest were deists
Anybody that thinks Trump is a Christian or has Christian values is a moron.
Most people in the US who self identify as Christian are in fact morons. There's a reason there are so many grifters promoting Christianity, it's practically free real estate.
If you say you're religious you're
- incapable of distinguishing reality from fairy-tales,
- a liar,
- or both.
Oo, "beleif iz 4 dums" such a bold and controversial take on Lemmy. 🙄
I hesitate to post this because I really don't intend to start a flame-chain but...
This is why we collectively struggle to fight these fascist bastards, because so many on "our side" can't see past the establishment's glaringly obvious false-flag bullshit, and are so ready to throw many of their friends and allies away, unable to see past their own arrogance.
If you leave no room to reconcile with those of differing experiences or beliefs, you will quickly find yourself isolated, bitter, and surrounded by enemies.
As a Christian who holds utmost love for friends and allies of a plethora of backgrounds and belief systems (or professed lack thereof), and who will resist this "Murica-brand xtian fascism" with all our might, I implore you and others who behave this way:
Please, leave this bigoted edgy pseudo-intellectual Hitchens/Dawkins-esque nonsense to rot, back on Facebook in 2006. Seeing it repeated so often on every stupid thread where this stupid government does a pathetic imitation of Christianity does not help the resistance. It plays right into their hands.
It's the same reason the "manosphere" and other toxic movements have taken root: It tells certain groups of people who would have taken your side that they are not welcome because of who they are, and yet we're surprised when they end up clustering with those who exploit them as pawns with claims of acceptance.
We need them, and WE NEED YOU.
Take care out there...
The problem is that at least in the US you are very much in the minority. The overwhelming majority of Christians in the US use their faith primarily as a justification for their racism (or xenophobia but that really just boils down to racism), misogyny, and homophobia (or transphobia). I could count on one hand with fingers left over the number of people I've talked to who call themselves Christians and who didn't at some point shortly there after make a disparaging remark about some kind of minority group. It's practically guaranteed if you see someone wearing a cross or praying at a meal some racist or homophobic shit is going to be coming out of their mouth sooner or later.
If those who claim to be Christian actually followed things in the new testament most people wouldn't have a problem with them, but they don't. They cherry pick, mostly from the old testament, and then act like that excuses them blatantly acting counter to all the things Jesus supposedly stands for.
EDIT: Apologies for the reply length!!
The overwhelming majority of Christians in the US
I respectfully, sincerely, beg to differ.
Yes, that's definitely a picture we get when seen through the lens of headlines. We see the loudest and most obnoxious, hateful, and arrogant. We see 'megachurches' dodging taxes and preaching patriotism and idolatry to a flag and empire. We see crosses paired with those stupid red hats. We see gospel music "rockstars" at Turning Point rallies.
Raised hackles mean clicks! And clicks mean money. Our enemies boost this coverage to rile up their fanbase and demoralize their opponents.
We don't see the number of faith based initiatives and charities desperately filling holes left by a gutted social system. We don't see the everyday believers and even churches who are trying their best to stay sane and love their neighbors (and enemies!) as Jesus instructed.
I'm not even Catholic but kudos to the Pope for calling out the US goons' nonsense!
Heck, look how long it took for the Guardian to actually report on Christians who are vocal against this stolen identity the Republican fascists are waving around. Ministers and other believers of a multitude of faiths are at protests, getting maced in the face by jackbooted govvie thugs. Churches are delivering food and supplies to families hunkering down trying to avoid capture by ICE.
And keyboard warriors want to lump them as enemies because they have belief?! How about all the people of differing queer identities that believe? Yeah, there's lots of them too. God bless them, that's got to be rough.
I'd argue the "vast majority" of Christians are pretty neutral: They could be doing a lot better. They just want to stay out of it, but they'll try to help other human beings if they can, but they don't read their Bible too deeply and are easy to lead astray.
The republifascists want to recruit these neutrals by taking over their church's narratives, by equating faith with patriotism, and that gets easier when these poor (often self inflicted) ignorant neutrals keep getting bombarded with "ReLiGiOuS pPl SuK" messaging. It makes the bad guys look like friends. Then those neutrals become radicals.
A LOT of money has gone into this narrative that Christianity is simply "conservative by default." Why? Because Christians used to be a leftist thorn in the side of capitalists! (Highly recommend "Behind the Bastards: How the Rich Stole. Christianity"
We're harder to see. I definitely could do a better job, but we're there.
The hard-right lean on pretending to be Christian because it serves two purposes: It galvanizes their radicalized blind fanbase, and attempts to snuff out the followers of Jesus that still remain. Letting them win is a net negative.
Thanks for listening to my ramble and for your thoughtful reply. I have to get back to work hahaha. XD
While it's true that's the impression the headlines give, unfortunately at least in my experience it's also the reality. In my multiple decades (I'll say I'm middle aged) I've met a grand total of about 4 people who are Christian and also decent people. The remaining 60 or so Christians I've personally met are of the conservative variety that are exactly the kind depicted in the media (I'm sure I've met more Christians than that, but they didn't identify themselves as such nor did they act in any fashion that would allow them to be identified as such so it's impossible to tell).
There's a great quote from someone or another that goes something like "there's no hate quite like Christian love" and that rings very much true. Some of the absolute most vile and vitriolic statements I've heard have come from those that spend the most time ranting about Jesus. I once saw a woman have a full blown panic attack because a black person dared to show up at her yard sale and then she went into a rant about how some bible verse meant "good Christians" should practice racial segregation.
I've seen relatives and friends subjected to hate and terrible treatment by their own families because they were gay all in the name of Jesus and being "good Christians".
There may very well be plenty of these good and caring Christians you're talking about out there, but much like the police, Christians have a major image problem right now and they need to be doing more if they don't want to be lumped in with the MAGA Christians. It's not enough to just say "but we're not all like that", they need to be seen to actively be disowning and denouncing those terrible behaviors by those claiming to represent them. Because right now what most people see are the conservative Christians, and if there are non-conservative Christians out there they're not being visible in any meaningful fashion.
I've met a grand total of about 4 people who are Christian and also decent people.
Hope if I'm not in that figure, I can be #5. :) 👋
But, yeah, all I can say is, I very much agree.
Unfortunately I'm not "John Christian" who can change the image of an entire people, but...
they need to be seen to actively be disowning and denouncing those terrible behaviors by those claiming to represent them.
...Yep, that's what I'm trying to do, at least. :) That's what gets me to write paragraphs and correct misconceptions and try to build bridges out in the wild wherever I can and just...try to be good. I want to do more I just... don't really know how.
I truly believe there is a distinct and tangible evil working in this world, and the nationalization of the Church is its most diabolical weapon. It disgusts me and breaks my heart.
The biggest obstacle is simply organizing the true followers and seekers. (I know "true" is often loaded. Are they actively trying their best to follow Christ and His teachings? Then let's rock, I say. Theology can be endlessly debated over coffee if they like lol.)
We are often disparate and isolated, and unfortunately easily cowed into silence by both sides of these culture clashes. Those "maybe Christians but you wouldn't even know it" types you spoke of.
We're up against "principalities and powers and forces of darkness" here. There's so much NOISE created by these ultra-massive organizations backed by rich, evil people, that shuffle their true intentions under layers of facade and funnel money into politics, pretending to be righteous while exploiting and robbing and abusing to further enrich themselves.
Then there's us: We have the Word, we have the Spirit, and we have love. These are enough, but we have to use it and amplify it...and not enough are doing that right now.
Just like trying to start a union at work: lots are content to just keep their heads down and hope it shakes out. And the news definitely isn't going to cover the strike!
Maybe I respond like this because I hope that speaking out will encourage more believers to make themselves known, to disown the regime, to call out the false teachers, to loudly rebuke the all-around jerkwads attempting to poison the well and keep people from reaching the living water.
I actually see it! Here on Lemmy even, I see tons of posts calling out this regime's bullshit every time they try and claim they're Christian, or that the country is, or that their actions are remotely so.
Loads of posts of unmistakable Bible verses refuting every word and action of these monsters. I try to join that chorus.
We have so much noise to overcome, and sadly one of our biggest problems can be a lack of coordination and a lack of fire.
But if I didn't believe we God could change this through us, one little bit, one changed mind at a time, I would probably be keeping my mouth shut too...
I appreciate your thoughtful responses and the conversation. I hope I haven't taken too much of your time. Thanks for hearing me out and sharing your experiences as well. ❤️
I don't need liars like Trump and I don't need liars like religious people. Narcissistic, sociopathic civilizations need liars.
I mean Trump is a perfect representation of Christianity his voters, just fake posturing to look like a good person. If Jesus was alive today and lived in America the vast majority of Trumpist Christians would outright hate him for being a hardcore commie bastard. And that's assuming the police won't just shoot him.
My mother is a great person. She's caring, she helps the sick and the poor, she acts with integrity... And she prays every day for Donald Trump to drop dead. That's a real Christian...
What’s with the “quasi?” It’s an explicit endorsement of Christianity as the national religion they’re not supposed to have. It’s literally the first amendment to the constitution they love to rub all over their sweaty white bodies.
"Christian"
Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward! But whenever you pray, go into your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:5-7
Yeah, they should just own it and call themselves who Jesus was addressing: Pharisees, liars and hypocrites.
Nothing less in the path of true scripture than this administration.
TST should bring their Baphomet statue.
Prayer explicitly as PR, rather than a personal relationship with God.
These people never seem to have read Matthew 6:5-6.
Can you blame them? That shit works. Religious people aren't the smartest tools in the shed, so no one ever wonders why people like donnie don't know shit about their religion or how it comea that he's never in church. All they see is performative stunts, and they love that.
They haven't read a lot of things. One of the things that amuse me is seeing xtians tattoo various xtian things on their body, like Hegseth, for example:
Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
They cherry pick from the OT whatever suits them. I'm fine if they ignore such rules from the OT with the argument that, like the food rules, it's not relevant anymore thanks to Jesus. Cherry picking just the stuff you can use to justify hurting people, while ignoring anything that doesn't suit your taste, is hypocrisy.
And then they invent stuff that's not even in the Bible, like their stupid abortion ban.
There is no God. There is no karma. There is no universal justice.
There's only what we do on Earth that matters.
Well, there is dialectic. It ain't karma, but sometimes it comes close.
But yeah, justice is something people do, not something the universe serves up.
We're gonna have to fight these bozos at some point, aren't we...
Yep
the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion
Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11
“Hamanda acka acka racka deda backa sanda acka ambo osa cacka reeté eké banda acka riki dibi asha daaah”
- Paula White Cain, Senior Advisor to the White House Faith Office
reclaiming the country's religious foundations
Thomas Jefferson wrote specifically about the first Amenment in 1802, stating that the adopted amendment created a “wall of separation between the church and state.”
Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both strongly opposed the state supporting one specific religion. Per their beliefs, it is a violation of a natural right to religious liberty when you compel a citizen to support a specific faith.
Oh, good! I was afraid the lack Christian leadership over the years might have created a vacuum.
We've only had Christian presidents for 250 years, after all.
I would love to run as a third party pagan animist just to break the trend.
I'll try to douse the flames if it comes to it.
May the Sun and Earth bless you!
The current president is not. He's made it pretty clear he's only pretending for the votes.
Maybe they will say a word of prayer for the Epstein child rape victims as well, being Christian and all.
/s
More like praying for the Epstein perpetrators/ruling class
Is this really a good time for the US to potentially violate the Treaty of Tripoli and risk the rise of piracy against US vessels in the Mediterranean / Middle East region?
Aren't they already pillaging the middle east?
Pretty sure they'd get burned and killed by the original Pelgrims whom were considered the ISIS of their time in Europe... Which was hardcore religious as it was already... So imagine those ppl going like 'wtf dudes, chill!!!'
That rotten core lives on up to this day - and will keep festering as it's part of their cultural DNA.
From the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. Ratified by the Senate which had just recently approved the Bill of Rights, and signed by President John Adams.
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religious or tranquility of Musselmen, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
You know, Christianity was used for the left during the New Deal among other times, in fact the New Deal was put together on a coalition that included a broad base of Christians who believed it was essentially Jesus's work to do so.
Today the left has so much spiritual trauma we dump on religion and want it gone, but really we need to embrace it and have a strong faith based arm that can speak this language to people. If America is a Christian nation than some immediate changes need to happen - universal healthcare being top priority. Also homelessness, poverty, food insecurity, war, etc. Amen.
It doesn't help that immediately after the gospels are Paul's angry, regressive, and authoritarian letters to all the congregations he was trying to dominate, followed by the late-first century anti-Roman millenarian fever dream of Revelations.
Despite some of it being in the Bible, socialism and humanitarianism isn't on the agenda for the major Christian players. There are absolutely some churches that do great work in their communities, but that's tarnished by the bigger groups who use the power of religion to control the masses and are not interested in considering the softer sides of messages from Jesus.
And the US was founded by a mix of believers, with the intention of being secular for the protection of all beliefs. They knew first hand from history and their current situation what mixing religion and politics does, and also what drawing a line for some beliefs and not others does. Fighting about religion was often between sects of Christianity, and a secular protection helped everyone. It was idealistic, never was 100% and drifted a lot away from that goal, and how far it is seems to correlate with the problems we have.
The point is though, Christianity has influenced and given credence to progressive viewpoints at several junctures throughout American history, so we can sit here and wish upon a star that Jefferson's vision for a secular America truly emerged, or we can acknowledge that it's never been quite that simple and that we too can use Christianity for our purposes now just as we have historically. Religion is a weapon and a tool the left has simply given up, and now we're like "I can't believe the other side is successfully using this to hurt us." Find the progressive faith communities, empower them, let them go do spiritual battle for us, see if we make more progress in winning hearts and minds - I bet we do.
I wish the better sides of religion would take arms against the ones using it for their own gain. I think they have that responsibility. They aren't.
I get what you're saying, use the same tools but for a greater good. I'd just like us to do things because they're the right thing to do, and not because some book said or implied it. Because in the end even if you take the broad idea of loving and helping each other from a book, that doesn't get into how to do that, and often times people with similar goals end up fighting over the details and undoing any progress simply because they can't agree on the HOW.
There isn't a better side of religion, there is religious or not. The left hasn't given up on religion as a tool, they simply aren't religious. We need less religion dominating peoples lives, not more.
The left does not want religion gone. Some athiests do and another chunk would not mind if it did but that is not the entirety of athiests or the left. Now The large majority want freedom from religion which means it keeps its things with its followers at their private places and does not throw it into the public square (which ironically goes with some of jesus's teaching and should be supported by christians) . That is about god exists believe X, Y, Z, and not about preferential ways of govenoring or how how society works.. As you say working toward a society with robust social safety nets and common sense social welfare is just something non hypocrite christians should be doing.
The left does not want religion gone.
I'd be fine with that, if some other form of homicidal, life-denying mass delusion didn't replace it.
its doubtful that religion of some sort goes away completely. I would like it if humanity could stop making up reasons to be dicks though.
Ban organized religion and a lot of it goes away. Having personal beliefs or distributing your flavor of holy book is fine, but religion should be something practiced in private at home, not in large crowds and certainly not in public. Espousing religious beliefs in public should be treated the same way you'd treat someone taking a shit in public.
Thats kinda redic. Are you banning all group gatherings. Is it the clubhouses we ban or are we just banning it if it fits some definition of religion. I mean we all know banning alchohol caused the human race to stop doing that. Its well known christianity itself was banned at one point in rome and I believe various countries have banned various religions. Banning is not as a good a solution as people think it is because they someone think it will of course get 100% compliance and everyone will wake up and believe like the banee thinkgs they will. It never happens like that.
The problem is the churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques. Buildings that exist to be dedicated spaces for people to gather to share their religion with each other and that provide a position of authority for religious leaders. If a group of say Christians wants to meet at somebody's house to talk about the bible that's fine, but talking about your religion in public shouldn't be acceptable. What people do in private is their business, so it's not a ban in that sense, but by shutting down the churches you starve them of the vast majority of their power. Ironically doing so would align much closer with Jesus teachings than anything the modern churches engage in.
Those buildings are private. They are not public structures. Some of them are not xstian so the teachings of jc don't matter to them and the majority of other xstians just pick and choose what they like anyway. My point is banning is one not so easy especially since you are basically saying if you social group meets a vague criteria we will go after you and two generally does not work at stopping the thing you want to stop. There is all sorts of things we could do that very much falls short of that. No special tax status, not allowing it in public places like public schools and city halls and libraries and such.
You're missing the point of removing the dedicated structure. They are public spaces even if they're private property because they're open to the public. I could right now look up a local church and go visit it. By removing the public spaces it becomes much harder for the religious leadership to shape and control narratives.
A significant reason why religion in the US has become so problematic is that the religious structures are easy to find and easy for large groups to regularly attend at and therefore make very convenient locations to distribute propaganda from. By removing the central structure you force things into a distributed system that's much harder to weaponize. You also eliminate nearly all of the power of the religious leaders as without the regular services their authority is diminished to almost nothing.
As for the criteria being vague, no it really isn't. You just define it as religious and there is already ample legal precedent on exactly that topic. There have been laws, regulations, and rules about religion in the US pretty much since the founding of the country, mostly in an attempt to prevent exactly what's been happening lately which is Christianity being written into US law.
It doesn't have to be perfect, people will definitely find loopholes, it just needs to make it hard enough that most people won't bother. Religion is already dying out, it just needs a little push. Remove the tax exempt status, remove the dedicated religious structures, and the rest will take care of itself. When people have to make an effort to attend religious gatherings, most won't bother.
Yeah im sorry but I just can't condone laws that say you can't do something if your reason is X but if its Y its fine. Its not a public space its a private space open to the public. That is a vastly different thing. Its not federally funded (directly). Again I am totally fine with taking away the tax breaks and have they run as any other charity and following the same rules. honestly im not sure we should even have tax breaks for charity. Tax should be progressive for businesses the same as individuals (welll we actually need that to be more progressive to) with making larger amounts putting them into blocks that have a higher rate. Again though I really don't think its so easy to say something is a religion. Yoga has all sorts of religious roots and philosphy spawned from it. Illegal? What about shriners? Or everyones favorite masons? Are religions that are not open to the public ok then? Its just not something I would like to see in a society. If people want to be religious I think they should be able to do anything someone can do in a non religious way. ie clubs and such.
Religions not open to the public would be fine, although it's not about the religion it's the buildings. Masons are an interesting one. The lodges would maybe be illegal, but I don't think those are open to the public. I don't know enough about how they operate to say. I'm also not familiar enough with shriners to say one way or another on that one. I think I remember seeing some kind of building labeled as belonging to the shriners, which that might have to go depending on whether it's public or not.
Yoga is very obviously not a religion, but even if it was there generally aren't buildings dedicated to practicing yoga that are open to the public. You generally need to pay and book time at yoga companies that do it commercially.
Basically places that charge an entry fee or where you need to pay for a membership to get inside would be legal. Places that you can enter for free as a member of the general public and that exist primarily or exclusively for the purpose of religion would be illegal.
Also there's a difference between public property and public spaces. There are plenty of public spaces that are on private property, most stores are examples of such. Spaces that any random person off the street is able to freely enter and exit are public spaces which most churches and other religious buildings are as well, as they're generally open to the public.
Yeah I just disagree here and would not want it. Part of it is hey its great your making calls from the hip but the fact is its all debateable. Most buddhist temples could easily reshingle as yoga or tai chi studios and just lean heavily on the philosophy. I mean if you meet someone really into either. To the point they teach. Its almost impossible to not take on the philosophy around it and talk about it in classes. Honestly even in most martial arts you have a lot of this. Not to mention im not going to hamstring their ability to do good works. soup kitchens and such. im not going to have them shutdown because they are run by a church and have a prayer before a meal. The whole thing is kinda creepy to me. I invite some friends over and now I might run fowl of some public space law even though its my property. Yeah I mean you could give me all sorts of examples but I just disagree its such and easy clear cut thing to do and even it if it was I don't think I agree its a good thing to do. If such a thing where being pushed in societ despite being athiest now I would stand with the church group to protect their right to have their houses of worship. Again tax wise I can see getting rid of special privlege, not allowing it in public property sure, but some sort of state erradication is to orwellian for me.
If America is a Christian nation than some immediate changes need to happen
It's not though.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..
Kinda right there in the bill of rights actually.
To promote bullshit
so I'm catching up on The Boys and I'm having trouble which inspired which, reality or fiction
Democratic church of America
Diabolical
Why should non Christians keep obeying their laws they don't really have power to stop many of us
Meanwhile religious extremists run iran
Yep and we put them there. Operation Apex 1953.
Who. The fuck would this administration pray to!? Their idol is right there!
I knew these fuckers didn’t know any history.
Nuke it
From orbit.
It’s the only way to be sure.
christ a’mighty!
Wakan Tanka would be more accurate. The europeans brought their imaginary white genocide god to American shores.
"mass" prayer event.
The article doesn't load. I'm confused; when they say "mass" do they mean a whole bunch of people will be praying, or that it's a Catholic service?
Trump Humpers are generally evangelical, so I'm going to assume they mean a massive gathering.
Or a cancerous mass, which is what I'd consider them to be. 😂
Why not both?
Protestant services are also called "mass".
In almost no Protestant demonination, except perhaps the Anglo-Catholic faction within the Church of England (called in the US the Episcopalians).
Sounds like you have never been a churchgoer in the US.
Or maybe you are thinking of evangelicals.
As discussed in another thread https://piefed.social/comment/11369485
Funny if the FSM smites them all al dente.