Error

Lemmigrad.ml ≠ lemmy.ml

Normally when people refer to ".ml" they mean the dev instance, lemmy.ml, not lemmigrad.ml.

I'm not commenting on the substance of your post, just pointing out the mismatch.

You not posting this in context makes you super untrustworthy in my book.

Cry more, bigot. I see the comments you've had removed by mods.

The only difference between a tankie and a fascist is the name they give themselves.

The only difference between a tankie and a fascist is the name they give themselves.

Don't you think the racism of one of them has a bit more of a consequence than of the other?

I completely agree.

And now, when writing this... Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that's quite some consequence.

I still would not write an equal sign between fascists and tankies, though.

In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad. But you don't really become a fascist in order to do good. You become a fascist because you think you are worth more than others.

I think being a tankie is about the goal being more important than the means – all the way to an extent where the means completely obliterate the goal. And being a fascist is about deciding that being limitlessly selfish is okay. One is at least trying to have a good goal. The other one is just... "Everything for ME and MY TRIBE, all others should DIE!" But in the end, what's being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.

And now, when writing this... Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that's quite some consequence.

You could also compare it to things "democratic" countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.

If we are using that to tell how much like Nazis a nation is plenty of democratic countries are a lot closer to Nazi Germany than China.

In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad.

I'm not claiming that China has never done anything that I don't agree with, however if we are measuring their results, it's hard to conclude that it's ill advised. In the last 40 years China has lifted nearly a billion people out of extreme poverty and has done so with out endless cycles of wars.

Meanwhile democratic nations in the West have seen more of their citizens slide into to poverty while killing millions of people in forever wars.

But in the end, what's being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.

Again, I don't agree with a lot of the CCP policies. That being said, I do think there are some exaggerations when it comes to the Uyghur people, though based on their own information I would say there is a pattern of ethnic prejudice

That being said, even if we use the most inflammatory information from western media and utilize the high estimate of 1.8 million ethnic minorities being put into reeducation camps. That's less than 1/6th of the Uyghur population in China. Less than the 2 million people currently incarcerated in the US, of those whom nearly 40% are from an ethnic minority who only make up around 10% of the total population.

This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.

You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.

Yes, you can. Generally, any country where an ideology goes over individuals' well-being tends to do this shit. China does, USA does as well. Not terribly surprising.

1/6 on camps is a LOT. It does fulfill the definition of genocide.

What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.

This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.

Show me a democratic country where this happens. You're giving me China and USA. And there's also the Russia. But is there actually a democratic country where people are handled they way countries such as USA and China do?

What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.

My point was that any specific economic policy or government style does not necessarily dictate the outcomes of the people it is in charge of. If this is similar to your belief, then I would question why you elected to make a statement that seemed to limit itself to a binary of fascist/"tankies".

1/6 on camps is a LOT. It does fulfill the definition of genocide.

Again, that is using the most hyperbolic estimate. Also, I do not think temporarily holding a percent of an ethnicity in an internment camp is enough to call something a genocide. It's definitely not great, and is systemic ethnic prejudice, but I don't know if that would qualify as a genocide.

The US put 80% of Japanese Americans in interment camps during ww2 and I've never heard that referenced as a genocide.

What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.

I think I explained in the last paragraph of my original argument that it was to provide relevant comparison of similar examples that were not fascist nor "tankies".

In your claim you said that you shouldn't be a tankie because it led to bad/evil results. Would you also claim you shouldn't be a liberal democracy because it leads to bad/evil results?

Show me a democratic country where this happens. You're giving me China and USA. And there's also the Russia.

First of all.....how is the US not a democratic country? It may not be a great one, but it still has free and fair elections. If the US is not a liberal democracy..... What is it?

Secondly, there have been plenty examples of democratic countries having unjustifiable foreign and domestic policies.

Just off the top of my head Canada has a brutal history of suppressing their native inhabitants that endures to the modern age. Both france and the UK also had interment camps during ww2. The UK committed a genocidal famine against ireland and Bengal as a democratic nation. Most of the worst aspects of colonialism were conducted after European powers transitioned out of absolute monarchies into democracies. South Africa and Israel both conducted an apartheid state in modern times, one going further into a genocide of Palestinians.

And more than likely the nation you currently live in has materially or militarily aided the US in one of their unjustifiable wars in the middle East.

Ok, you're giving me the US, Canada, the UK and France, but can you give me one REALLY democratic country??? /s

His actual response was just as bad

No idea of what's been going on in Canada. POW camps don't really count. Nor any camps where the goal is not the removal of an ethnicity or nationality from from a region. The question about Israel's democracy is an interesting one that I need to ponded more!

So your honor, my defense is an appeal to ignorance with a healthy side of "Nu-uh".

Also, the US is totally not a democratic government, but Israel......

Also, I do not think temporarily holding a percent of an ethnicity in an internment camp is enough to call something a genocide.

Do you really want to defend holding any percentage of people in an internment camp based on their ethnicity? And this applies to USA too. Holding anyone on an internment camp is bad enough, but because of ethnicity?! That's not only racism, that's fast track to genocide if it's not already happening

Do you really want to defend holding any percentage of people in an internment camp based on their ethnicity?

Did I say I was defending that...... Or did I just say it wasn't considered a genocide? Pretty sure I started the argument by saying i didn't agree with all CCP policy, and that the treatment of the Uyghur people would be systemic ethnic prejudice, which is self evidently bad.

Again, my point isn't to nullify all criticism, just to point out that there seems to be a double standard when people speak about the same crimes carried by both democratic and socialist governments.

Or did I just say it wasn’t considered a genocide?

If part of (be it sixth or less) a cultural minority is put into internment camps, such a big portion of one ethnicity to be criminals in any common means is so unlikely it's clearly a state approved genocide. You denying it to be one is intentionally downplaying to make the issue seem less important and direct the discussion towards something else. I do not care what is the government structure or whatever it prefers to be called if they're putting minorities into camps. There's nothing to be defended in that, be it USA, China, or whoever.

why you elected to make a statement that seemed to limit itself to a binary of fascist/"tankies”.

Because that is the subject we are talking about. We are talking about to what extent tankies are similar to fascists.

Also, I do not think temporarily holding a percent of an ethnicity in an internment camp is enough to call something a genocide.

Temporarily, not. But anything that forces people to have to lose their national or thnic identity is genocide. We are not talking about any temporary internment camps here. (I'm not sure if temporary internment camps based on ethnicity have ever even existed...)

to provide relevant comparison of similar examples that were not fascist nor “tankies”.

If they do not support using a country's military against its own population nor are fascists, how are they relevant to this discussion that is intentionally limited to those two groups?

First of all…..how is the US not a democratic country?

Uh... Read the news maybe? WTF kind of question is this? How is it a democratic country?

Just off the top of my head Canada has a brutal history of suppressing their native inhabitants that endures to the modern age. Both france and the UK also had interment camps during ww2.

No idea of what's been going on in Canada. POW camps don't really count. Nor any camps where the goal is not the removal of an ethnicity or nationality from from a region.
The question about Israel's democracy is an interesting one that I need to ponded more!

The vast majority of muslim nations on earth got together to send delegates to investigate in person and they declared the accusations to be baseless.

My experiences with Uyghurs differ from yours. I was backpacking in Kazakstan and China and the repression was easy to notice with bare eyes. The Uyghurs wouldn't be that scared of a 7-year-old Han-girl if there was no repression.

How was your visit to East Türkestan?

Oh, and Uyghurs are not Arabs, BTW! They are a Turkic nation.

My experiences with Uyghurs differ from yours.

Cool story bro.

The vast majority of muslim nations on earth got together to send delegates to investigate in person and they declared the accusations to be baseless.

Oh, and Uyghurs are not Arabs, BTW! They are a Turkic nation.

Oh, and not all Muslims are Arabs, BTW!

repression was easy to notice with bare eyes

Did you try talking to anyone? Its difficult because google translate doesn't do Uhygur speech-to-text, but does translate Uhygur as Kazakh kind of.

That's not to say there's not serious issues, but it seemed plainly obvious to my bare eyes that the bulk of the claims of genocide are outright fabrications.

Some knew some English, partially I used the rudimentary Turkish I know, partially I used a Mandarin to English translator tool. Mostly I ended up being hosted by people who knew some English.

It ended up being a mix of Turkish, Chinese and English in the end.

Listen, FUCK the IAEA you could see those Iraqi chemical weapons factories with your bare eyes

Where did I get this red fish from?? Got an answer for that??

Listen, FUCK the IAEA you could see those Iraqi chemical weapons factories with your bare eyes

Hehe, and how many were actually found after Iraq had been succesfully invaded? Correct.

my point was calling you stupid and you agreed with me

Your experiences are worthless, try shutting the fuck up and listening

Well, your source is shit.

And so is the video linked. You can also use your own logic to notice its fallacies. You don't get just anyone invited to a soccer match. It's an important situation for propaganda, so you only allow people there who know what truth to say if anyone asks. And what kind of face to show. Ones that know what will happen to them and their relatives if they fall off the line.

I don't know why you believe the "dude trust me" guy on the video. Nor why I should trust you, dude.

State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China | Colum Lynch, Foreign Policy. (2021)

The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." (See: World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China)

Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter (A/HRC/41/G/17) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang.

The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States in 2019 which:

  1. Welcomes the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; commends the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and looks forward to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China.

Books, Articles, or Essays:

This is like red scare orientalist bingo. You have

-Public events are actually a propagands show for whitey

-Showing face

-Everyone there is only pretending to be happy because Something Bad will happen to their families (how many generations?) if they don't.

At what point does believing all of these conventient copes to get around having to engage with the concept of an actually popular government start to take on the qualities of a cult's belief structure?

Man i fucking hate The Interview

Yes, because China is well known to assasinate diplomats and family members of political opponents in dozens of countries around the world....

Please link some reference to this.

You were the implying that bad things would happen to the diplomatic observers from the Arab League if they didn't parrot the required Chinese propaganda.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that.

But yeah, I would imagine that their countries were pressured into this by some kind of a trade deal. Just like a Christian country can help undermine another Christian country for personal profit, a Muslim country can help undermine another Muslim country for personal profit.

I would imagine

some kind of

A truly ironclad case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Arab_League

22 countries? All of them? Including countries like Libya, UAE, and Saudi Arabia? No. That's a really big claim and you're going to have to provide evidence for it. I highly doubt all of them could be convinced to not break rank just because of some trade deals when Europe and the US and UN are deeply invested in pushing the narrative.

Have you considered the possibility that basing your assessments of anything at all on shit you imagined is actually a bad idea?

Yes, and that's precisely the reason many instances have defederated from lemmy.ml.

Lol no, y'all defederate because you're spineless

I didn't post a link to any videos dumbass, my source is the verifiable fact that the majority of muslim nations on earth investigated in person and are calling bullshit on us. They have far more credibility than the US and our lackeys and our media, there is no actual evidence to contradict their findings, it's the same sort of atrocity propaganda we used to justify invading Iraq & Afghanistan.

US is a shithole country. I wouldn't go there if they paid me to. I do not care of what US is or is not. For your US-centric, well, you: USA and China are two wholly separate countries. US doing something does not mean that China is automatically good/bad as a result of whatever dumb thing the US government decides to do.

And "we" did not justify invading Iraq and Afghanistan. The rally against the war in Iraq was probably the largest rally there has ever been in Finland, for crying out loud!

Finland? Lol fuck off, your protests are worthless and your government is as much a US lackey as the rest of Europe has been for most of a century now. Your info on China is overwhelmingly US sponsored propaganda, your government and media are owned by the same billionaires as the rest of the western world.

thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments

Man it's so cool that red scare propaganda in the current age has a kind of SCP collaborative fiction vibe to it, where you can just Say Shit and riff on it to adjust reality to "your" (the state department's) specifications.

It's hard to see tankies ever have that good goal. They really really defend the oppression they achieve

i recommend this recent video by Eric Hovagim to learn more about the Uyghur topic (but i guess you'll probably skip it based on its title?)

Who has time for videos? Reading is much faster.

(I generally skip all video links, nothing personal)

Here and here are two texts on the subject which cover some of the same things as that video (albeit not from a first-hand person-from-the-US-traveling-in-Xinjiang perspective like the video does).

I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.

"Why?"
Well, for the same reason Soviet Union was doing the same to its colonies. Or why France was doing the same to its.

Blargh, the guy's eaten the hook with bait and floater.

colonies

If you think China colonized Xinjiang, well... yeah, they did. But that was 22 centuries ago, a millennium before the [people now known as] Uyghurs had even arrived there. The demographics and ruling empires unsurprisingly changed a few times in the ensuing millennia, but since the Qing dynasty committed the Dzungar genocide there (from 1755–1758, with help of several peoples including Han and Uyghur) it has mostly remained a part of China.

The ancient history is interesting, but more recent events (eg Al-Qaeda-affiliated groups the US has been funding there) are more relevant to the present situation.

I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.

What specifically is he full of shit about? I recommend watching more than three minutes of it.

Well, for the same reason Soviet Union was doing the same to its colonies. Or why France was doing the same to its.

Ok, can you tell the reason why? What is the thing that China wants that can only be achieved by mass murder and genocide of its working population?

I don't think there's anything that can only be achieved by that.

But generally in China the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country. Being religious is one of the things that are against the official template of how a person should be. Any religion is a problem, but a nation as religious as Uyghurs is considered a problem.

And of course: Just look at the clocks. Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time. Only clocks at railway stations, police stations and such show the Beijing time. The people there are far too independent for Beijing's liking. Or yours.

the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country

The CPC has 100 million members, it's their job to represent the people. This is like saying "the government decides what happens"

Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time

I spent 3 months in Xinjiang, I didn't notice this, but can't remember the last time I looked at a clock that wasn't on a phone.

Any religion is a problem

You're recycling anti-soviet propaganda. China isn't atheist. For China, they officially support religion, but in practice recognize religious organizations as potential problems due to history, from the boxer rebellion to Fulong gong to ETIM terrorist attacks. They reconcile this by providing funding and official support to religious institutions, but exert pressure (I'm unclear how exactly) to promote less radical factions and don't provide as many special privileges in areas where there's risks of extremism, for example there's religious schools in Xi'an, but not Urumqi. Personally I think the situation with private schools and hukou is a mess that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn't ration education by income and zip code, but as an outsider, I don't have the nuanced understanding how to do this in a way that doesn't impinge on the rights of minorities and helps to preserve their culture, but the Chinese I've asked about this seem less concerned about losing aspects of their own unique cultures than having a common language and understanding, which IMO is a god-awful take, discarding the work of millennia of human development.

nation as religious as Uyghurs

How do you measure how religious a group of people are?

The Soviet Union had no colonies. This was always projection on the part of colonial and neocolonial countries for the USSR's unwavering support for national liberation struggles, which earned them incredible amounts of sanctions.

Do you think the current colonies of the Russia somehow appeared out of thin air? All of the Russia's current territory has been Soviet territory in the past. All of the Russia's colonies were of course also Soviet colonies.

What are you referencing when you say current Russian colonies? Pretty much all Russian colonization happened in the 16th century in Siberia and central asia under imperial Russia. The only colonization other than that was in Alaska and in parts of northern California in the 18th century, while still under the imperial regime.

Precisely the colonies that were gradually colonized in the 16th to 20th century.

Just like French and British colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago, Russian colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago.

The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.

Precisely the colonies that were gradually colonized in the 16th to 20th century.

Those were colonized by Imperial Russia.... You know the government that the Soviet union overthrew.

Just like French and British colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago, Russian colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago.

The difference being that the British and French governments were continuations of the same government that took those colonial holdings. Also the colonies taken in the 20th century now belong to the US.

The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.

The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.

I mean that's just factually incorrect. The Imperial Russian expansion east started in the late 15th century and had colonies at the pacific by the mid 16th century, and had nearly a million exiles alone heading east by the mid 17th century.

The Trans-Siberian railway wasn't completed until 1904, the same year of the Russo Japanese war where they had a battle over control of Manchuria with millions of combatants. Nothing you are claiming is historically correct in the slightest.

Modern Russia had no colonies to inherit, it has no colonies. The Soviet Union liberated the Tsar's colonies and thus modern Russia had none to inherit.

They are sure trying to re colonize all the old soviet countries though. Give them credit for that at least!

Not really, there's a major schism due to western plundering of the former Soviet countries and installation of compradors.

Or, in reality, russia is trying to re colonialize these countries. Frame it how you will

I think even if someone were to be generous and agreed with your view of current events, it would be considered annexation rather than colonization. It's an important delineation as colonization requires a conquest in the aims of material extraction without benefit to the native populace.

Nah, they aren't attempting to set up colonies.

Just anex? But I was sure colonialism was more than just taking over territory based on all the othet times I've spoken to .ml lol

Colonialism is more than just taking over territory, it involves setting up colonial governments and running the economy based on strategic gain or resource extraction for the parent country.

If russia isn't doing that I have a bridge to sell you ahahaha

Amazing rebuttal.

I cant logic you out of a place you didn't logic yourself into

I haven't seen any logic from you thus far.

If youre not used to seeing logic, im not surprised

No I'm plenty used to that.

Strange, so you decided on purpose not to use logic then? Interesting

No I use logic, just haven't seen any from you.

Oooh what a rebuttal. Ooooh buuuurn lol

Amazing.

Just giving what I am getting

Same.

Lol

Amazing.

Right? I know i am. Thanks!

Disagree.

Ok

This was ... quite stupid. I didn't expand 22 replies to see this sort of a fight.

Incredibly stupid yes.

You lost

That was quite informative, thanks for sharing!

I skipped it based on your instance.

Seems like a stupid thing to do and an even stupider thing to voluntarily admit

Anti-intellectualism truly is on the rise.

The tankies have descended upon the thread I see.

Anti-intellectualism exists anywhere you're peddling your authoritarian, genocide-denial sophistry, so kindly (or unkindly, I literally don't give a fuck), fuck off.

Edit to anyone reading this thread: note that (especially in the case of Cowbee) not engaging is the only way to deal with tankies, regardless of how much engagement bait they throw in their comments!

They're self-admittedly only here to propagandize/whitewash their authoritarian views in the first place, their arguments are based on a completely different set of facts from the reality that you live in, and no matter how reasonable they make themselves sound, they aren't here to argue in good faith. YOU WILL NOT WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH THEM HERE BECAUSE THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY ENGAGING WITH YOUR POINTS - YOU WILL ONLY MAKE THEIR CAREFULLY SANITIZED POSITIONS SEEM MORE REASONABLE TO OTHERS READING THE THREAD.

So don't give them the satisfaction.

"Plugging your ears and running away is the only way to deal with people who have unanswerable critiques of my way of thinking. For your own safety, you must terminate critical thought immediately."

Dude you would have to waterboard me for six business days to get me to admit to that kind of ideological weakness

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Tankie chuds fuck off!

1

What a weird statement. I replied to you saying you reflexively ignored information purely because the person posting it has a Lemmy.ml account, this is just blatant anti intellectualism and forcing yourself into an echo chamber. Not sure what you mean by "authoritarian, genocide-denial sophistry" either.

Edit for your edit:

This is just mental gymnastics to justify your own echo-chamber.

wHaT a WeIrD sTaTeMeNt

It's certainly easier to levy a claim against someone than actually back up that claim, I suppose.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Nice to meet you, McCarthy.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

I wonder when you'll stop your crusade against leftists.

No, again. Feminist dogma is holding back minority and women's struggles just as much if not more than men's struggles. If the goal is to eliminate sexism, the movement must acknowledge the harmful and outdated ideas that are holding the push for gender equality back, which means "patriarchy".

Lmao, even feminism is too much for you?

Tankie chuds fuck off!

That's not a magic spell, it doesn't make the spooky scary communists go away. We'll still be here, organizing to create a better world where production and distribution are run for the benefit of all, rather than the private few.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

What even is a "tankie chud?" "Tankie" is a pejorative for those who support socialist states, "chud" is a pejorative for right-wingers, like yourself. That's like saying "woke MAGA" or something.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

I replied to your edit, by the way. Aren't you concerned that your inability to directly answer anything from your left is going to backfire, lending more legitimacy to what I have to say? Even from the perspective of vulgar rhetoric, you'd do better to follow your own advice and simply not reply to me at all than whatever this display is supposed to do.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Amazing. Well, for anyone viewing, I support the Palestinian resistance in opposing Zionist genocide, and I support the rights of women, LGBTQIA+ communities, the struggle for indigenous liberation, and a better world for the working classes where we control the direction society moves in, not capitalists. This makes me a "tankie."

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Guess you oppose that, then?

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Amazing. Guess this is a good thing to show people who wonder why the far-right hate "tankies" so much.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

For anyone still following along, this is what our dear cold warrior has to say about women's rights:

No. This myopic, religious dogma of "feminism is the only way, truth, and life" is only going to continue to hold back movements for gender equality, and the sooner we grow beyond feminism, the better.

This is who hates us "tankies."

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Feminists too, apparently, are too much for you. All is well in the world, don't change anything at all, because hakase in particular fears social progress.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Here's an open platform for you to take back your crusade against feminists, go ahead:

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Oof, guess feminists are still a bad thing in your view.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

I will say, you've been very helpful in displaying the depth of anticommunism. All anticommunism is is a prayer to oneself repeated again and again.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

So according to you, feminists are "tankies," Palestinians are "tankies," those pushing for indigenous rights are "tankies," the LGBTQIA+ communities are "tankies," and communists are "tankies." Seems odd to label yourself that way, as in opposition to these groups.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Every accusation ends up being a confession from anti-communists.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Anything else you'd like to add for the class?

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Excellent, so no attempt to clear your name or perhaps apologize to the women you've hurt.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

I wonder what caused you to act this way.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Have you done anything productive lately?

Tankie chuds fuck off!

Didn't think so.

Tankie chuds fuck off!

This would assume the tankie-fascist isn't also racist

"Let us assume that my political opponent is a racist because it makes my job easier" lol fuck off clown

Why? The way I phrased it, racism was included for both sides.

I guess I missed that. My mistake.

Myth: Communism and Fascism are the Same

Fascism upholds capitalist hierarchies (race, class, gender); communism seeks to abolish them

Fascism arises from capitalist decay to protect ruling-class interests, while communism opposes capitalism.

Historical examples (Franco, Hitler) show fascists collaborating with capitalists, not communists, who were among the first to be jailed/killed.

That must be why capitalists and the CIA love one, but hate and fear the other, right? Because they're the same?

Never cracked a book-ass comment

Communists and fascists are diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive. Communists fight for the working classes, to collectivize all production and distribution to suit the needs of all. Fascists apply the methods of colonialism domestically in order to entrench capitalists and kill off labor organizers. Equating the two originated as a form of Holocaust trivialization called Double Genocide Theory.

Horseshoe theory on lemmy. This website really isn’t much different than Reddit lol, makes sense cause it was mostly Reddit refugees to begin with.

or a conservative and left-wing tankie, mirrors images.

You went into a community which defines itself as Tankies, compared them to Fascists, and now you come here whining about it?

I'm banned from a bunch of random places cuz I made a joke about Jack Ma disappearing for "re-education". Loud critic of the CCP. Goes missing unexpectedly for a bit. Returns and suddenly sings the praises of the CCP. Definitely not fishy at all and you can't joke about it.

A bullshit false equivalence that only serves to amplify alt-right messaging? Yeah, I'd downvote that garbage, too.

Blocking an entire instance seemed extreme at first, but with the level of crazy in .ml I finally just ripped off that bandaid and did it. It remains the only one.

The fediverse has been a much better experience ever since!

Last week highly-upvoted comment on reddit claimed that environmentalism is nothing more than russian-bot fueled fad.

Totes.

I was banned from socialism on Lemmy.ml the other day.

For providing a detailed post with scientific references demonstrating how the Tibetan language is disappearing (and how the infographic posted was likely propaganda/misinformation).

I had many users respond calling me slurs and none really responding to the body of my post in any way. Then, instead of moderating the bullying, the mod called me a shithead, provided his own references and banned me to prevent me from responding.

The kicker? The references he linked to supported exactly what I was saying! He hadn't read them.

Also funnily, the mod log states that I infringed "Rule 1". I checked. Socialism's rules are still TBD (after 7 years).

That's lemmygrad (THE tankie instance, with Hexbear), not lemmy.ml (the dev's instance). Please do not conflate them together. And I say this as a dbzero user.

I'll downvote that too.

It seems to #bothsides an issue via a lot of hyperbole, and risks straw-manning one side just for a favourable comparison.

I don't colour myself a tankie, but I do live in a more socialist country than America - low bar, such as it is. I sense I'm not in a position to properly understand how your argument can make sense, but the kneejerk comparison I feel needs some explanation before just throwing that smelly fish out there.

It's not cut-and-dried, but presented as such. It's not helpful and relevant by itself. Thus, downvote.

Your screenshot says "memes@lemmygrad.ml", not "lemmy.ml".

I swear, for the people who've yet to experience getting caught in .ml crossfire these constant stories verge on some Jason Voorhees Boogieman shit for me ahaha

Does everyone who finds themselves on lemmygrad just show up to start debates? I've never just accidentally wandered into an .ml instance and then felt compelled to start throwing hands about Tiananmen Square lol

This stuff has got to be some of my all time favorite Lemmy lore and I look forward to the day I find a reason to be banned from there too.

Genocide is bad, wether it's the Holocaust or the Very Real White Genocide in South Africa. If you have a problem with this statement, it's because you think genocide is good.

or a do-nothing centrist who'd rather let the fascists win in order to keep the left down, right?

But dont forget to vote blue no matter who, leftists!

And those 40 down votes probably came from 4 different people.

Don't down vote those people though, you'll get a ban.

Its a CCP propaganda machine.

Comments are wild here

Holy shit can you keep this dogshit on meanwhileongrad?? Like we get it there are crazy soviets on the internet, get over it you don't need to turn every server into meanwhile

Have you tried engaging in a good-faith discussion instead of whatever half-witted rage-bait you attempted the first time?

While I don't disagree with you, if you didn't subscribe to the fact that authoritarians have coopted far left movements to consolidate power, it does look like you are doing a false equivalency to make a "both sides" argument. And "both sides" arguments frequently get downvoted.

Not necessarily the best example in this post, but in general, I find I get downvoted a lot when I make a good faith comment in .ml posts where I think I’m agreeing and am trying to understand the topic further. Getting 20 downvotes kind of kills my motivation to engage any further, though, so I usually just delete my comment , shrug, and move on. I’ve gotten to the point where I try to avoid wasting my time and energy commenting on .ml posts in the first place.

Maybe it’s just a different perspective on what a downvote means? To me, I’m generous with upvotes and withholding an upvote means I don’t find it interesting or disagree. I use downvotes sparingly for spam, trolling, comments made in bad faith, etc.

A downvote in my mind roughly translates to “fuck off”, so if a group gangs up and tells everyone with a slightly different worldview to fuck off, then they eventually will and said group will be all by themselves in their own echo chamber. If that’s the goal, then fair enough.

Don't do the mistake I did posting a meme, don't even bother going in this instance, don't bother at all.

Me: googles tankie

So, I've been exploring these comments for the past 30 mins. They honestly make me wonder; are we seeing an echo chamber effect by instance?

Does Lemmy have any tools to count upvote/downvote by user instances, especially by comment layer. I think I want to dive into this rabbit hole.

The lack of context... also were you talking about China by any chance ?

Definitely not the only place, but certainly one of the more predictable.

this has got to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen here, who the fuck gives a shit

I'd say it's because the bar for "tankie" is "anyone who had a problem with selling weapons for genocide."

Your comment sounds like you are not replying to the meme, but are calling someone (idk who, the meme isn't about an individual?) a tankie. My instance doesn't have down votes but this is what I understand then to be for: identifying posts and replies that are off topic or do not contribute to the discussion.

🤦‍♂️ Obviously never been involved in any left wing activism, because oh boy oh boy you'd quickly realise just how authoritarian our liberal democracies are.

😐 Banning harmless things because a dictator doesn't like them

😃️ Banning harmless things because a dictator doesn't like them, People's Republic of China/Union of Soviet Socialist Republics/any other "leftist" dictatorship

.ml is Lemmy's The_Donald or /r/Conservative. Obviously different ideologies, but the behavior is the same. Bunch of petulant children.

"tankie leftist" is a meaningless term and "tankie" is only used as a pejorative against socialists/communists.. It's ignorant and combative language. I'm completely unsurprised that you are downvoted for that.

What was the context?

Serves you right for having a reasonable opinion.

Getting banned from a .ml instance is a fediverse right of passage

And then they ask for donations

Saying the Soviet Union, Khmer Rogue and Mao were examples of bad leftist authoritarianism will get you banned from stuff there too.

You'd probably also get downvoted IRL for saying this out loud south of the mason-dixon line, too

The Internets got to be worse thing to happen to the European and American civilian psyche. It's like constant surprise that genocide and slavery spanned over 600 years of colonialism and imperialism may have a great deal more to do with our wealthy lifestyles rather than the last 50 years of relatively not so over the top slavery. Muh scandanavian democratic socialism built off centuries of violent oppression of labor and theft around the world. Modern day Israel does the dirty work while Europeans try to act like they haven't been benefactors all this time and now the same with countries like Rwanda and their neighbors

.ml W

You are just a typical liberal who is equating fascist society and socialist society just because they are "authoritarian", you are ignoring what they achieved and what were their ideas. By this logic liberalism and fascism are same because they both are capitalism.

Congrats, you get fascist rightoids then 🤷‍♂️

idk bro im in america and i gotta say id take a tankie authoritarian just to have a little revenge on the right wing authoritarians, then hopefully society will have had enough strongmen for the rest of my life.

Ah, hardcore commies. The level of density is incredible.

Their mentality is like:

Mao starved 10x the holocaust number of people but it's okay, because it was unintentional!

I meant they block so much but actually fully allow everything by allowing vpn without any punishment. Seems like a huge waste of money to maintain a firewall that they no longer want to enforce.

Is there an image in this post?

Fixed

Yeah, any instance which is still federated with Hexbear is wack af.

One of the reasons I'm on lemmy.zip is that they defed with as few instances as possible.

I'm a big boy - I can handle my own feed moderation.

Lmao, okay pal, enjoy your CCP sponsored AI slop.

Oh no, not an opinion that's... gasp... different from mine!

More like 100 AI-assisted opinions from 1 guy who wishes you direct and immediate harm, but as I said already: go right ahead.

That's because they do.

.ml deleted yet another comment I made on a normal news article pretty much saying something similar about authoritarians. And the mod had the balls to chastise me after deleting my comment and butwhatabout-ing “American imperialism” or some BS.

I would have never even commented had I realized it was .ml. What a bullshit place that is, their private little Pravda and Memory Hole.

No context and the thread itself seems deleted? Or this is from weeks ago? Weird sub for this as well. This feels sus.

Lemmy.ml has gotten so much worse lately. Anytime one of my comments gets a hateful reply, it’s almost always from .ml or one of the similar instances.

I want to block the whole thing but too many people sign up for .ml thinking it’s fine and not realizing it’s a propaganda machine.

I got banned in a hard way from a lot of those sub and not on purpose. A simple comment here or there would set off an attack storm from people who sort all comments by new and look for it.

These people are no different than the militant PETA types.

some of you think Trump or Cuomk would be a better leader than someone like Mamdani, who’s probably too radical even for you because you’d rather have a rapist capitalist than someone who’s even slightly more anti-capitalist than Reagan. Seriously. Mamdani isn’t even a leftist really and I bet yall would have called him a tankie before he beat the mainstream DNC candidate

Well, yeah, that's like going into a German sub and saying how you detest the way of doing things of both Germans and French.

You're criticizing their way of doing things and just because you're criticizing somebody else, doesn't make it any better (in fact, mentioning them like side by side makes it sound you think they're equivalent, which will piss of a few more people).

Not that think the point you made in that post you listed here is incorrect, rather I'm criticizing your "surprise" at the reaction to what you did in the context you did it: I mean if you walked into a Nazi bar and called Hitler a cunt it would be both be true that "You're correct" and "You set yourself up to be assaulted by Nazis".

Equivocating Fascism and Communism is a standard Nazi tactic to make their ideology look less extreme. You got moderated because you emanate Hitler particles. You're not the innocent little poster you think you are, and some circles are clever enough to see that with haste.

any ml instance is a blight.

I think you have to look at this the right way.

Downvotes can be a good thing. You know what they upvote, yeah?

If I'm on an index that hates dogs, and I post something complimentary to dogs, I know I'll get a lot of downvotes. GOOD. I don't want cat upvotes, cats are mean.

Lol no you're just living in a bubble

They have very predictable trigger points. Also I am starting to believe that there is a bot which automatically downvotes anything that contains the word tankie.

Meh, they don't like to be called tankies so you are already being deregatory. I am also guilty of saying similar things and I am never surprised when I get down voted. Even if you go with campism and campist, which is more accurate, they don't like that either. Truth hurts I guess.

They are always coming from, "this is all western imperialists propaganda." First of all, most people know this and every bit of propaganda has some truth to it. When the CIA or some other propaganda machine picks up on what China or Russia is doing and then projects it, it is not always a lie. It is often built on some truth.

This is also true for Russian and Chinese propaganda. Being able to sort what is true and what is conjecture is important to understanding propaganda. ML cannot do this with Western Propaganda, they can only suss out their teams propaganda and they usually do a horrible job at it.

my experience on this app has been way better since I set up an instance block for the tankie triad.

A lot of nonsense apologia in these comments. Motivated reasoning and carefully cherry-picked sources. A fixation on the long history of western imperialist propaganda. Edgy contrarianism, ultimately.

What you won’t see much of:

Direct and lengthy criticism of China (the kind that isn’t just damage control)

Citations from respectable research journals

Admissions that Marxist / socialist / etc nations have their own propaganda machines

Teens and Chinese agents, it is late, go to bed, you’ve got TikTok tomorrow.

China, Iran or DPRK?

Because your ignorance doesn't understand a dictatorship of the proletariat under communism isn't the same as a dictatorship under fascism

Fork and defederate.

this post is mildly infuriating.

theres no dictators on the left. this is bullshit.

Marxist-Leninist ideology explicitly calls for the dictatorship of the proletariat. I wouldn't want it either, but this is basically like going to a religious forum and advocating atheism (i.e. pointless).

So what. What is your problem. What is the goal of this platform if is just Reddit

It's because what you meant is accurately understood as a false dichotomy coming from decades of Western propaganda and completely useless to whatever discussion you were having. Remember: tankie is the new commie, and you're (most likely) just the new generation of imperialist Westerners because the show has to go on, they just changed the words a little while keeping the same narrative dynamics.

And I'm too monotheistic and grounded in reality regarding current idpol Western nonsense for .ml, they downvote and ban me often so it's not like I'm part of the in-group, I'm just a bit more aware than you, ig.

Who are "they" that changed the words? Because "tankie" didn't come from a Western Imperialist state, and it is not remotely the "new commie". I'm proud to call myself a communist, but I would never call myself a tankie, because I don't believe in authoritarianism, no matter who is in charge.

You seem like a good person with their priorities straight, I don't believe you deserve to have a master

The term "tankie" originated in the UK in regard to opposing responses to the Hungarian uprising, which has since been declassified as yet another US backed coup attempt. Authoritarian communists are the only ones who don't get fucked by the CIA, simple as.

The CIA had interests in seeing the weakening of the USSR, obviously, but you don't seriously believe that the CIA was able to convince hundreds of thousands of Hungarian citizens as well as virtually every socialist party in Hungary to fight against their own better interests, do you? And even if true, how does that in any way take away from the thousands of Hungarian civilians killed or maimed?

And that doesn't remotely touch on the Prague Spring

Hundreds of thousands? Be serious

At least 200,000 people were exiled as a direct result, so yes, hundreds of thousands participated

Okay...

http://mek.oszk.hu/01200/01274/01274.pdf

Pages 19, 39, 148, 195 fyi

Edit: And honestly, I don't understand why that seems like the hang up to you

You don't understand why I'm skeptical of a ridiculously large number of "victims" attributed to the biggest force for international socialism on the planet at the time, substantiated exclusively by a nested series of "trust me bro" documents provided by the single largest political and economic rival of the country in question, a country which just happens to have a long and extremely well documented history of making shit up to justify our foreign policy? Tbh I don't believe you, even a complete fucking moron would have no trouble wrapping their head around that.

I never said anything about "victims". If that was your assumption, that's on you. I said there were hundreds of thousands of people who participated in the uprising. Whatever assumptions you're making are based on a conversation you are having with yourself

It's not an assumption, you used words and phrases synonymous with the word victim and now you're backpedalling and resorting to dishonest semantic fuckery because you know goddamn well that I'm right and that's the best you've got.

I did not. If that is what you took out of it, then that's one you. I was specifically referring to the number of people who participated, and you challenged the "hundreds of thousands" part ( I suspect because you couldn't t challenge anything else of a actual substance?)

I literally said

you don't seriously believe that the CIA was able to convince hundreds of thousands of Hungarian citizens as well as virtually every socialist party in Hungary to fight against their own better interests, do you?

Which is apparently the part that you're hung up on

That is separate from when I said

And even if true, how does that in any way take away from the thousands of Hungarian civilians killed or maimed?

Which, I suppose could imply some victimhood if you literally didn't know what an uprising was, but that wasn't the part about "hundreds of thousands", so I'm assuming you were talking about the first part, which again, doesn't contain any "words or phrases synonymous with the word victim" so I'm just confused, I guess, as to exactly where you got that from if it wasn't from the conversation you're having with yourself.

Jesus fucking christ grow a spine

You're embarrassed, aren't you?

Embarassed of what? Basic historical and political literacy? The US spent most of a century spamming atrocity propaganda and overthrowing democratically elected governments around the world while the UN cosigned all of it, now they have no credibility so nobody with a working brain is buying it. You're either an incurable moron or a langley psyop intern on the fast track to reassignment, either way you should be embarassed.

Again, it's like you're having a conversation with yourself. You reduce your self to ad hominem and don't actually reply to anything that I've said. That's why I said it seems like you're embarrassed

So you're a deeply unserious person, then, and this has been a waste of time? That checks out

I'm right, cry about it

Right about what, exactly? Again it's like you're having a conversation with yourself. Like seriously, point me to the point that I made that you refuted and were right about. You've just been going on some long rant over several messages not even replying. So you're right about what exactly?

Learn to read loser

You can't even answer that you were right about? I'm sorry, I just feel sorry for you. So sorry

Ignore the loser, he has no arguments and just posts the same memes.

Thank you

Already did, learn to read halfwit

Yeah, wonder why the CIA leaves the violent extremists alone when it continually targets the ma and pa movements, instead?

Almost like one of those is a true threat to the world order and the other is just a different coat of paint. But don't think about it too much, might lose your tankie cred

The CIA has absolutely not at any point in living memory left anyone alone unless they allowed their resources and markets to be exploited by the US like good little vassals. You are historically and politically illiterate.

I have one already but it's not a person, ofc. And I don't know who they is/are, but what I do know is that the claim that people who are anti-Western imperialism and reject Western narratives are just misguided/the enemy is the same as before and whatever name they give it, the narrative dynamics stay the same. It's a ghost they fight, I haven't seen anyone post positively or allude to supporting oppressive, imperialist, "commie/socialist" policies. Basically, I haven't seen actual tankies, if the term means anything.

I guess we just disagree on what we consider to be oppressive. The term "tankie" was invented by UK leftists to criticize other leftists for their support of the USSR's use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution and later in the Prague Spring as well. Therefore, any communists that defend the use of oppressive tactics are tankies, it's really not that hard, and it's not anti-leftist.

I don't know what to say about how you haven't seen it yourself, since it's prevalent in essentially every online leftist space. Maybe you choose not to see what you don't want to?

Because "tankie" didn't come from a Western imperialist state

The term "tankie" was invented by UK leftists to criticize other leftists for their support of the USSR's use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution and later in the Prague Spring as well

If you believe that the UK isn't a Western imperialist state, I've got a bridge I'd like to see if you're interested in buying

I do, but "the UK" didn't come up with that. Leftist living in the UK did. So that's kind of irrelevant

Okay, fair and good definition but I really don't think whatever .ml-vibed post or narrative that gains any traction, to the point of it being an integral part of the community's ideology, upholds those tankie values. And, therefore, the reputation is unearned. And they may exist but I don't interact much with those people because I'm a lil banned so I guess I don't see all of their content, idk.

And, circling back to OP's case, I think the downvotes are a reaction to the narrative that ".ml is tankie" when they're just anti-Western (like most of the world but that's a different convo, they're just anti-Western in Western online spaces), discarding the whole comment instead of "taking a side" because that would just give more weight to the narrative.

But they're just... Not only anti-western. They are specifically pro-authoritarian and label anyone who criticizes that point of view as a "liberal" (even if that label makes no sense except in their own personal special definition). And then in other posts, the very same people call for the eventual violent removal of liberals. It doesn't take a genius to see one thing is connected to the other.

I understand what they're trying to do, and I'm sympathetic to the idea of wanting a well-intentioned authoritarian after decades of failing capitalist democracies, but freedom and individual rights are so hard to gain and so easy to lose and I believe they're worth fighting for.

a well-intentioned authoritarian

Thats not at all what communists are talking about when they say "dictatorship of the proletariat"; we mean a state where the working class has total control as opposed to the capitalist class. Cuba is more democratic than any western country; its actions are the result of the will of the people as evidenced by its constitutional referendums passing with overwhelming support or the governments actions always favor the working class as opposed to the capitalists.

If anyone doubts this, ask people living in AES states about democracy some time. There's plenty of Chinese on Rednote, traveling to Vietnam, Cuba, or Laos is a taller order, but it will show you infinitely more than you can learn within the western propaganda bubble.

Perhaps I could agree with you if that were what was being discussed, but I really don't think that's the take over there, I think they think you're fighting strawmen.

So, they're delusional.

Learn to read

Maybe, I don't know, I don't speak for .ml. Cool username btw. ✌️

Yeah? Look around you.

no you don't. no one here wants a "friendly authoritarian"

we are not democrats.

The ussr has had almost 70 years to implement their eutopia and move away from authorianism, but they never did. Either they didn't want to, or their whole system failed.

And in those 70 years, at the height of the GULAG population, they still didn't come close to the USA's domestic use of authority. The USA, just considering prison population, imprisons more people per capita than nearly any other country in the world, and more than the USSR did. But that's just prison population. The USA is also the only country in the world that charges prisoners hundreds of dollars per day just to be in prison. At least in the GULAG system every prisoner made minimum wage for the labor they did and they came out of prison with a savings account. The US also uses prison slave labor to produce over $11B annually in profits for the state and private corporations.

But again, that's JUST prison population. The US also has the largest parole system in the world and it's 2x bigger than the US prison system. People on parole are monitored, surveilled, and controlled by the state. They have to work to pay back their prison debts and the state "garnishes their wages" or, said another, way steals their money. The US has the worst recidivism rates in the world as well.

So when you say the USSR was authoritarian for 70 years, are you also willing to say that the US has been authoritarian for decades as well? Or is it different because people get to vote for whoever will preside over the expansion of the prison system?

Not to mention police budgets. If you combined all the local police budgets across the country it would be the third largest military in the world. The NYC police budget is larger than the DPRK's military budget including their nuclear program. The ICE budget expansion makes federal police another military-equivalent putting them in the top 10 largest militaries. So the the US holds number 1, number 3, and number 7ish of the largest militaries in the world, 2 of whom it uses domestically and it's not authoritarian?

Black people and indigenous people have been trying to tell the rest of the world just how authoritian the USA is. Maybe the issue here is that you're part of the privileged group of people who just don't experience the authoritarianism all around you.

Yes, the US was also bad. That doesn't mean the ussr didn't fail and always was a dictatorship.

So when the CIA said that Stalin wasn't a dictator but rather a captain of a team, and when the entire constitution of the USSR allowed for recalling of politicians, and when they built very complex voting systems that dwarfed anything the West has ever done? And when Stalin tendered his resignation 3 times and the bureaucracy rejected it three times? And when he died owning almost nothing and as a national hero? And when Kruschev took office despite being deeply opposed to Stalin and leading a faction that opposed Stalin's faction?

Remember that Kruschev was appointed the same way every prime minister is appointed, by election from all the other ministers in the central committee.

The central committee was in turn elected by delegates who in turn were elected by the people.

So no, the USSR was not always a dictatorship. But more to the point, it was less authoritarian than the USA

70 years under siege. We've seen what happens when counterrevolutionaries win, it looks like modern Russia.

If that was a siege then every country in the world was under siege by either the US or the USSR at that time.

There's a fundamental difference between the side supporting democratic movements all over the world and the side arming dictators and terrorists to suppress any democratic movements and overthrow democratic governments.

Capitalism necessitates imperialism to maintain the rate of profit.

Nice strawman, but all the non-capitalist countries are still stick with dictators.

non-capitalist countries

So that's Cuba, China, Vietnam, or Laos? Some might argue Venezuela's democratic socialism isn't exactly capitalism because the capitalist class nominally isn't in power.

And you're saying they have dictators because what exactly? They're certainly more representative of the people than the average western country given that they've largely resisted neoliberal austerity (mostly, I have some criticisms of vietnam's national insurance policy) so it can't be that. Is it because they're not white or because their governments don't work to help western capitalists exploit their labor and resources?

Half right

they went through a major world war with a big part of the victims and were hostilized by the us for the next decades, just like every other socialist country that dares.

china succeeded and is a more democratic country than the us will ever be.

The USSR was not free to implement anything dumbass

I'm too monotheistic

Cringest shit I've read lately

Yeah, because Lemmy in general and .ml like/have a good opinion of religious folk...

Not many people have a high opinion of religious people, and for good reason. But being cringy does not mean "you are wrong", it means that people cringe when they have an experience you gave them. Whining about "religious persecution" is pretty pathetic and unnecessary. I have noticed you several times on this platform bringing up religion when it is completely irrelevant, exactly as you did here. Also, sidenote, given that almost no one who speaks english anyhow is worshipping many deities, it's weird you always have to specify "monotheism" as if that's a needed or relevant thing to specify. That's like me claiming someone is anti-human because they are racist against me. It's just a weird thing to focus on. In any case, maybe if you stopped randomly bringing up religion, people, tankie or not, would stop shitting on you for it. Just a thought.

I know they have their reasons, especially if they're American because most big Trinitarian denominations would give Jesus an aneurysm, but that's not me nor most people in the world who claim to be religious. And it is necessary, because Trinitarians think Jesus, a man, is also the Creator, and there's also the Holy Spirit somewhere and that makes up their pantheon. And I just mentioned it because it's true, because just by saying things like "oh thank God" people start getting uppity at times, nvm pointing things out while quoting the Qur'an or the Bible. It's like you've forgotten where we are. You can tell me "just take the negativity and unnecessary hostility or leave, it is what it is, this is a Western space" and that's inhumane but fair, but you can't tell me it isn't a thing.

Because US Christians usually think that or "GD" is taking the name in vain, when it's really outwardly saying the right things and going to church while also lying, cheating, stealing from, human trafficking, selling poison to their neighbors is what that means. Fwiw, I'm well aware that according to the scriptures, Ismael's seed was also blessed. Besides that, if you believe in a Creator/Creatrix, S/he created all or didn't. That means if your sibling demonstrably desires to live in peace as your neighbor, then you are to live in peace.

saying things like “oh thank God” people start getting uppity at times

That is just not common. But even on the rare occasion where that were to happen, it's weird to take it personally.

I mean, I am a person and it happens to me. But regardless, all I said was "I'm too monotheistic and... for .ml", which is true, and it was a single phrase in a long-ass post so I don't think I was being too whiney or idk.

The truth is "I bring up religion constantly and people are annoyed by it". Like you did here.

You've spent more words than me talking about it here... And monotheism is the framework through which I understand existence, it's at the core of my moral beliefs and otherwise and not just decoration, so it makes sense it would come up a lot.

I certainly didn't and typically wouldn't bring up religion. You did.

it's at the core of my moral beliefs

Not really. You don't believe it's wrong to kill people because a book or an entity told you so. You believe it because it's obvious. Atheists probably hold 98% of the same morals. So no, there's rarely a reason to bring it up. Yet I've observed you do so repeatedly. You even put it in your username. This is insufferable behavior tbh.

You're triggered by something that's as common as saying "hello" in my circles. I would recommend you block me so you don't have to suffer more.

I'm telling you because most everyone else feels this way too. Self awareness is good to have.

I know how the short-sighted, amoral, hedonistic and overall godless Westerners feel, I speak here because of it more than in spite of it. If I was here for the upvotes or to fit in I'd just post Roman empire and only "Trump bad" memes (he is, ofc, but that's where I'd limit my expression of dissatisfaction with American politics and society as a whole if I wanted the e-praise), or antinatalist takes, or horny ones. But if they cannot handle even some mention of the Creator here and there, the block option is always available. For the rest, who tolerate it because maybe they find something worthwhile there despite feeling annoyed, I'm more than willing to engage.

Yeah nobody needs the condescending moralizing or judgement that is so accurately associated with your ilk. Guarantee you half the people you judge are better people than you.

The people I "judge" (and I'm actually critical of ideas and values, and those can change and I'm all for that) don't even care about morality or being a "good person" in general, as evidenced by my many convos here with some particular specimens, lol. Come on, man, if the glove doesn't fit no one's forcing you to wear it so what's going on?

don't even care about morality or being a "good person" in general, as evidenced by my many convos here with some particular specimens

Yeah you definitely don't judge. They're all the problem, they even confessed it. They said "I'm a godless heathen and I hate morals".

You're delusional and so is your death cult.

Okay, so, are you gonna block me now or do you just want to continue getting whatever anger you have out of your system, safely against someone that's not part of the in-group? 🤔

Do you want to stop being an arrogant and judgy douche who crams religion down people's throats?

I really don't feel like I'm cramming anything down anyone's throat.

Your username says otherwise

I guess we have different definitions of "cramming down someone's throat".