This is what happens when you let the oil industry and their lobbyists have unfettered control of the narrative and legislation .You get a huge number of politicians falling into their pockets, and progress is stymied at every turn.
It's actually kind of surprising America has made the limited progress on EVs that we have. But it's nowhere near enough. And now we are paying the piper.
American voters are doing their part to "help," crying about "high" fuel prices (less than half of what they are here) when one of the big issues is that undertaxation of petrol has led to underinvestment in alternatives.
I mean, what do you want us to do? Index tax taxes or make them percentage based so they don't go 33 years being eaten away by inflation? Create a system that actually pays for the roads it needs to exist instead of saddling the future with massive debt? Not make it legally difficult to impossible for any alternative forms of transport to exist or at least be usable by sane people? That all sounds impossible. /s
Tesla is American.
Lemmy has lots of opinions about vehicles with no actual knowledge. All US companies went in on EVs but you guys bought >3M pickup trucks instead, then you blame US industry for not making the cars you won't buy.
This is some low effort trolling, do better.
Perverse fuel economy legislation and optimizing for high profit luxury vehicles meant consumers were choosing between a $20-30k ICE truck/suv or a $40k stripped trim EV.
In 2024 (when automakers were finally getting off their asses), only 10 BEV models were under $40k, most with pitiful range and only 2 just under $30k.
For comparison with ICE, there were 18 compact cars under $30k and 13 trucks under $40k. You could buy TWO Ford Mavericks for the price of an Ioniq 5 or a mid-trim Ford Mach-E.
This has very little to do with oil industry lobbyists, and a whole lot to do with the whole world outsourcing their production and labor to a country with no worker protections.
That would explain Chinese dominance in vehicles in general, not EVs in particular.
Do ya see a bunch of Chinese ICE vehicles running around?
Also, Chinese EV manufacturing facilities are so efficient precisely because they're so incredibly highly automated
They're efficient because they have no concept of workers' rights or IP. Not because they're a country full of geniuses, and not because Big Oil is keeping them down, regardless of your opinion on China.
That China has terrible workers rights is a fact. That China also has a lot of automation is an unrelated fact that is also true.
Mostly. Price is a complex problem. Cost is a floor factor and automation affects that somehow. It is hard to know when automation lower prices as this depends on relative labor costs which have been going up in China.
Its unrelated to a conversation about the oil industry and lobbyists, obviously, yes.
Chinese EVs are cheaper because the control the supply chain from mining to battery production. It has nothing to do with automation or cheaper labor, US plants are all automated. Chinese cars need to cost more for transport.
It is impossible to build lower cost cars in the US with healthcare costs, and Trump has only made that worse. US is the only country that ties healthcare to employment.
The degree of automation is not relevant to a discussion about why they're being kept out of other countries, or anything to do with Big Oil.
There are plenty of Chinese ICE vehicles, what on earth are you talking about ? MG got rolling here in the UK with ICE before releasing hybrids and EVs, Chery only have ICE and hybrids here etc etc Same in Australia with BYD and the rest.
You're poorly informed.
I guess American workers are treated too well and enjoy too much protection?
They enjoy many many protections that don't exist in China. Denying this is just ignorant. Its how China became a superpower. Its why the US offshored all of their production to a country on the other side of the planet.
The Chinese can open a factory in the US anytime, but they won't because its too expensive, and undermines the CCP's goal of dominating emerging markets.
The headline suggests it’s a problem that the USA is working on. Evidence suggests that in fact the approach being taken is to imitate an ostrich, and bury the collective head in oil and gas money.
While the government might be doing that, the US auto manufactures are taking a different approach. GM makes some nice EVs.
Genuinely, have they? All the EV news I hear from the US is projects stalling or getting cancelled.
Those are what make the news. GM has a lot of EVs that look just like the ICE of the same name and they don't get much news.
Equinox and Cadillac lyriq are everywhere, you just don't recognize them as EVs.
I drive a Blazer EV. Another one that you won't recognize as an EV. The only obvious difference is the lack of exhaust pipes in the bumper. (and possibly the lines where the charging port opens/lock of lines for gas filler.)
Any sedans and hatchback, or only more gigantic trucks?
I don't want an electric "vehicle", I want an electric car.
Does GM make any of those? Sadly in the US market, selling real cars is almost impossible and so no one makes them. I too would prefer a sedan. However, I have to face the reality that in the current fad world I'm a tiny minority that's not worth serving and so I have to take what I can get., I'm a tiny minority that's not worth serving and so I have to take what I can get.
Chevy Bolt.
Discontinued next year.
I guess that's Chevy's answer lol.
The Ford Mustang Mach-E seems very nice as well
Love my Mach E.
Sounds like a better plan that what Europe is doing. Laxing Chinese imports and Chinese owned factories on EU soil while also opening more doors for more "Overseas Police Service Stations" that everyone apparently forgot about.
Do you have a better idea?
I've been Flintstoning it for years, best move I ever made.
While your idea is very good and I support it, that's a "ban smoking" solution to "how do we stop vaper imports from China"
Renault is making several affordable EVs in France. Germany only came up with overpriced, unreliable EVs from Mercedes, BMW and VW/AUDI.
Italian auto industry is all but dead, they can only screw customers for so long.
I got an answer, give up and let the Chinese EVs in. or just reinvent public transportation for the future and stop wasting ungodly amount of resources for Ford F-150s everywhere
If we let the Chinese evs in they would out sell too many ice or hybrid cars and reduce our consumption of oil, as well as bring too much competition to our "free" market. We can't have that, think of all the money spent in lobbying to keep us dependent on oil! And people might not buy electric cars from their favourite eccentric Nazi if there's an alternative and that absolutely cannot fly! Ugh it's the same story over and over again with American companies. Perform like dog shit, piss and moan that sales are tough because of those pesky foreign doing it better, tarrifs the competition out of competition and beg big govt for a nice bail out. Been happening over and over since at least the 60s in at least automotive industry. People who use USA as an example of capitalism = bad are totally missing the point that USA is socialism for rich people at the expense of capitalism, as a real capitalist would love to buy BYD in USA. Capitalism needs to be constrained with regulation sure, but not in a way that benefits your "representatives" favourite private corpo
Amen to all of that.
US won't have an answer. Obama invested in battery research, Trump shut it down, Biden invested in battery manufacture, Trump shut it down. During this time, Chinese industry secured a supply chain from raw ore mining to making batteries with patents. US has no IP in batteries.
Same thing is happening with drug discovery, it's all China for the next decade.
The answer continues to be: do everything it can to ignore China exists, and insulate the industry from having to compete.
How very free market of them. Seems like it would be so shitty to be a real republican - their party has totally abandoned those ideals.
I'm sure his answer will be tariffs because he's not about to invade China for their oil.
Make decent vehicles that don't spy on people or track them.....fucking morons
Seems like the simple solution is to buy their cars and focus on producing something else.
The US government is falling all over itself to fellate the oil and gas industry to protect their profits. They have blocked EVs in every way possible.
China doesn't give a fuck about the US Church of Profits and is building renewable energy and EVs faster than the rest of the world combined.
The west has already lost. China won. China will be in charge in the very near future.
Fuck it, at this point lets give China a shot. They have issues, lots of them, but Europe isn't going to compete any time soon, and at least China doesn't switch between telling you you're friends, and stabbing you in the back every 4-8 years.
They are just as profit-driven as US corporations are. They are also leading the world in coal mining.
And I remember people singing the same song about Japan in the late 70s as they do about China now. Extrapolation works perfectly in a world with no limiting factors.
They are also leading the world in coal mining.
I see this ridiculous comment all the time. Yes, they are mining coal because their need for energy outstrips their ability to build and bring online renewables but that doesn't change the fact that they are building renewables faster than the rest of the world combined and at some point cleap, clean renewables will meet their energy needs.
Energy cost makes up between 10% and 80% of the cost of everythin you buy. When energy is cheaper the products are cheaper or the profits are higher. When China is run on all those cheap, clean renewables, and when the US has burned all the oil and all the gas and all the coal and the wealthy have run away to their slave islands to sit on their bags of money everyone else will be fucked.
But, by all means, keep Whatabouting those stupid little "gotcha" comments.
And I remember people singing the same song about Japan in the late 70s as they do about China now. Extrapolation works perfectly in a world with no limiting factors.
Really? People were saying that Japan was building so much cheap, clean renewable energy that they were going to have cheaper products and beat the west? I don't remember anyone saying that.
I got to ride in a Li Auotmotive i9 Ultra the other day and it was amazing. Ridiculously luxurious and far ahead of tesla. Cheaper too. It had a fridge and microwave, and big screens everywhere. Its Lidar view of everything around the car was vastly superior to Tesla's, and it has about 15x the computing power of my model 3.
Guess what, fuck off with fridges and microwaves in cars.
nothing wrong with them if they're optional
What if I really want a fridge in my car?
No, our answer is that EVs are dumb and that oil is the only energy source that matters in this century and every century to come.
Are we even looking for an answer?
The USA isn't exactly known for their cars. But even Germany has trouble making good cars nowadays.
Was a loyal Ford (european) customer but I don't want an SUV version of the mustang, a massive truck or whatever the new 'Capri' is (its not a Capri).
And why are they all so ugly??
Wtf happened to Ford??
Ford seems to be taking from Tesla's design language and trying to mix it with their own and the results are really fucking ugly
Its awful. Its like they cut their design team and got AI to do the work instead.
Now I think about it I wouldn't be surprised if thats actually what happened. But instead of just car design it was their whole product strategy.
Of course they “have an answer to EVs”. It’s to crush them or make them so outrageously expensive only the very wealthy will afford them.
And you know why? Because that’s how we voted.
I want those Chinese EVs so bad 😭
They sell them in my country.
What I'd love to see is some multi-year reliabiity data on them. Initial product quality looks pretty good.
I want European and Asians models of cars to be available in North America
They are coming or all ready in Mexico and Canada so it is just the US.
Oh It does... They prevent China EV makers from partaking in their "free market" and force you domestic suckers to keep slurping up the status-quo.
The US also has huge trade deficits in mangoes and sports shoes. So what?
Only idiots like Trump think all bilateral trade flows should balance.
SHOCKING REVELATION: US lacks clue
Of course not, the current US government is actively hostile toward EVs and green energy. Why do all these headlines frame this as if it's so surprising?
US: shoots itself in the foot "WHY ISN'T CHINA LIMPING AS HARD AS I AM?!?!?!?"
The solution is putting their fingers in their ears, screaming "No one wants EVs anyway" "America no1!" "USA! USA! USA!".
You know, same solution they've always used.
If by "the U.S." you mean Bonespurs, not having answers goes without saying. But that aberration won't keep wasting oxygen forever.
Of course they do:
- Ban Chinese cars period
- Add an additional $130/year tax on EVs, in case one of those heathen cars actually gets sold here
- Ignore the rest of the world and taut how well the US makers are doing in the US
- ???
- Profit
The US has actively worked against EVs for over 100 years….
Sure they do. It’s double down on ICE and block the import of foreign EV.
Whenever the US car industry seems to be moving towards EVs a major correction takes place and more huge vehicles appear instead. They obviously aren’t serious and will go the way of the buggy whip if they can’t replace management with people who can plan for the long term.
Are owners want us to use oil
Greed, bad organization, bad design, too costly, invasive of owner's data, friends in the oil biz. Those are some answers, but not all.
Mostly greed. All other answers flow from that.
Well, we've artificially inflated the price of steel, electronics and consumable resources like fuel and electricity required to build cars in the US. I can't imagine that we would even be competitive building anything right now.
Don't forget years of short sighted manufacturing enabled by the insane dealership system.
And, I guess enough research and development to realize that you're a decade or so behind the competition.
The answer for what? Is clear that the current policy is short term gains in selling huge overpowered gas trucks that are impossible to sell in the rest of the world, leave door open for Chinese EV, disappear into irrelevance in long term
Setting aside fascism, the solution is expanded train infrastructure.
People in here are talking about battery IP but that's not as important as simple BEV production capacity. An EV is dead simple mechanically but you've gotta have the raw resources and factories to keep up. Even then, the US would need to do some major infrastructure upgrades to support a bunch of heavy and plug-hungry EVs.
Trains are a big investment but getting track laid and a few hundred thousand running is much more manageable than trying to replace ~280 million ICE vehicles (97.9% of all US vehicles in 2023).
I predict China is going to feel the same car dependence pain in a few decades if they continue to ramp production and climb the cars-per-capita leader board. It's crazy expensive to keep millions of people puttering around in multi-ton metal boxes.
I predict China is going to feel the same car dependence pain in a few decades if they continue to ramp production and climb the cars-per-capita leader board. It's crazy expensive to keep millions of people puttering around in multi-ton metal boxes.
Ahh I don't think they're going the way of the US in that regards:
Wikipedia data is a little old, but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_China
"China's railways are the busiest in the world. In 2019, railways in China delivered 3.660 billion passenger trips, generating 1,470.66 billion passenger-kilometres and carried 4.389 billion tonnes of freight, generating 3,018 billion cargo tonne-kilometres.[1] Freight traffic turnover has increased more than fivefold over the period 1980–2013 and passenger traffic turnover has increased more than sevenfold over the same period.[10] During the five years 2016–2020, China's railway network handled 14.9 billion passenger trips, 9 billion of which were completed by bullet trains, the remaining 5.9 billion by conventional rail. "
This is the Chinese govt site
https://english.www.gov.cn/archive/statistics/202506/06/content_WS6842d8f6c6d0868f4e8f31d9.html
"China's railway system transported more than 4.31 billion passengers in 2024, up 11.9 percent year on year, according to the National Railway Administration.
Railway cargo transportation volume approached 5.18 billion tonnes last year, reflecting a 2.8-percent growth compared to the previous year.
In terms of investment, China's railway sector saw fixed-asset investment amount to 850.6 billion yuan (around 118.39 billion U.S. dollars) in 2024. During the same period, 3,113 km of new railway lines were inaugurated, about 79 percent of which are high-speed railways.
As the modern railway network continued to expand, China's total operational length of lines reached 162,000 km in 2024, including over 48,000 km of high-speed railway lines.
Furthermore, railway transportation remained safe, stable, and orderly throughout 2024, with no severe railway traffic accidents in China, the administration added."
TL;DR They're doing plenty of rail
And it never will!
sure it does.
shitting your pants has worked out well so far, just keep doing that.
This article wont go away
Grey now? No more orange? :-(
I don't see what that answer could be even hypothetically and if Trump wasn't a moron.
USA is not the world leader in production anymore, that ship has sailed. Now China is the leader in production, and USA is mostly a service based economy.
So cars isn't even the major problem, technology is.
Before the Japanese entered the market, and put a serious dent in US car manufacturing, American automakers were the biggest in the world, now the biggest American car manufacturer is GM at no. 5 internationally down from no. 4 in 2024.
Most likely USA will decline further because of the Chinese makers, that have not entered top 5 on production yet, but almost definitely will very soon.
USA is still significant with Ford following directly after GM. But the current home market GM and Ford are operating in, could make it even harder for them to compete internationally, as USA is somewhat held out of international trade by the Trump Tariffs, and those tariffs make production in USA more expensive.
So international competition by GM and Ford will be from factories outside of USA. But still disadvantaged because they can't make international deals to cover all their factories.
Be careful of those numbers - while the US isn't world leader in production, the US has continuously gone up in production, just that others have gone up even more. You don't see this because employment in manufacturing is way down, but production is still up. It no longer looks like we make anything, but the numbers show we make more than when we were world leaders.