Bad time to be in the US
24d 8h ago by discuss.online/u/VetOfTheSeas in antitrumpalliance from discuss.online
if you are in a ROOM with someone with measles, theres an 80% chance you walk out with measles, 10-20 minutes after the person has LEFT
get your shots
Back in the day, when you got measles as a kid, you needed to be locked in a dark, quiet room, ALONE for WEEKS on end, 8 yo timmy effectively had to endure solitary confinement for going outside
That sounds so nice, but I know it isn't.
Why did the room need to be dark though?
youd get splitting headaches if there was a light in the room
family guy did an episode about measles, i think people should watch that, they ended up quarantining the whole town.
they ended up quarantining the whole town.
Well that's unrealistic. Americans don't believe in quarantines we know that.
There are still two groups of people for whom bullying is still acceptable, and strongly encouraged: MAGAs, and Anti-Vaxxers. Also, Flat Earthers, but they probably belong to one of the first groups.
I understand the anger but with anti-vaxxers specifically I think there's a case to be made that focusing too much on the failure of individuals to make properly informed decisions can distract from the systemic causes of the increase of anti-vax sentiment. There has been a decline of trust in institutions resulting from decades of austerity and exploitative practices. Big pharma, the insurance industry, and the scientific community are conflated by popular figures in the grifter economy so that people turn to them for medical help and knowledge instead of doctors, and our education system - having also been eroded by austerity - does little to prepare people for the abundance of disinformation. Combine this with those same grifters gaining legitimacy by becoming involved in government and I'm honestly surprised the problem isn't worse than it is.
Your anger is justified but it is better directed at the grifters spreading the lies than the marks who believe them.
our education system - having also been eroded by austerity - does little to prepare people for the abundance of disinformation.
You are talking about Critical Thinking Skills, one of my favorite subjects, and you make an excellent point. There are grifters who like to twist our large systems, and connect dots that aren't meant to be connected, and create a picture that doesn't really exist.
But we're all in the same boat, and most of us make the right decisions, so I'm not so willing to let the Anti-Vaxxers off the hook so easily. This is an important issue for all society, and to endanger society because you don't want to employ proper, basic Critical Thinking Skills, is irresponsible to your fellow citizens, especially the youngest ones, who are going to bear the brunt of their Anti-Vaxx adventure.
I get the feeling but bullying is never ok even for people you don't like.
YOU are the problem. It is always permissible to resist evil, destructive people in any and all ways possible. The Democrat obsession with being polite to their enemies is nearly as destructive to society as MAGA.
you don't need to be polite or show respect. thats earned. but bullying. no in that situation you are the problem. that does not mean you also don't challenge them or defend yourself. sure though if you think im the problem go for it.
Bullying, by definition, requires that the oppressor is in a position of power over their victim and punching down. As these people have it in their power to prevent the spread of a painful and deadly disease but chose to ignore their responsibility to the rest of society to do so, we are challenging their mindset and defending ourselves (and others) from their selfishness. Belittling and mocking them isn’t bullying them, it’s insulting them. If we were bullies we’d browbeat and force them to take vax while delivering a swirly ‘cus they’re fucking dorks.
Belittling and mocking them isn’t bullying them, it’s insulting them.
I get where you're coming from. The question is, do you want to help anti-vaxxers change, and stop being anti-vaxxers, or do you just want to feel superior to them?
If you want them to change, I really encourage you to think yourself about times in your own life where someone else successfully encouraged you to change their mind. Did they do so by mocking and belittling you, or did they do it with kindness and by helping you understand your mistakes in a way that didn't make you feel rejected?
do you want to help anti-vaxxers change, and stop being anti-vaxxers, or do you just want to feel superior to them?
Depends on the person and the situation. This isn’t some hypothetical, far reaching discussion about why they should recycle to prevent future global warming. Look at the picture attached to the post. There’s a kid suffering from measles because some adult in their life wouldn’t use the reality of science and reason and put that kid in the position they’re in. If adults with all those tools and learning want to expose themselves to preventable consequences; fine. That’s your choice, and while I think you’re an idiot, by all means, ignore history, logic, and reality and suffer your consequences. Die. I’m not going to save you in the face of all that.
Did they do so by mocking and belittling you, or did they do it with kindness and by helping you understand your mistakes in a way that didn't make you feel rejected?
Both. I’m far from perfect or ideal. I’ve done things that were selfish and had both the rejection of strangers and the support of individuals who same some kernel of personal humanity in spite of my behavior and backed the idea I could change even when it seemed like I couldn’t, had hurt others, and was otherwise not a benefit to society. But I also used that opportunity to self-reflect and try, sometimes unsuccessfully, to grow and change. I will always fight to give people who have a spark of that the opportunity and time to change. There’s people covered in swastika tattoos who’ve realized their error and try to work beyond the people they’ve been. There’s murderers and rapists who grew up in environments of victimization and passed that on once they became adults because it’s the only lesson they got about how one treats others. My beef isn’t with the victims of bad lessons who are struggling but willing to learn from the consequences of their actions. It’s with the ones that continue to use their past as an excuse to justify their current behavior, and especially those who are aware of reality but don’t care because they have the power and ability to dodge the consequences of what they’re doing but have no concern if it affects another.
Right, this is what I'm getting at. Bullying people and treating them like shit will not help them self-reflect and change. To achieve that, we need to extend that support you mentioned, we need to somehow see the kernel of personal humanity within them.
Like you said, this isn't a problem where the consequences are confined to individuals, adults acting poorly is causing innocent children to suffer and die, so we need to focus on solutions. This isn't like these people believe in Flat Earth, if we just sit around mocking and belittling these people, more innocents will die at faster rates.
We need to collectively swallow our (totally justified) anger and find some kind of a way to understand the root reason of why people are anti-vaxx, and help them resolve whatever broken logic or unresolved emotional issues is standing in the way of them doing the right thing.
This isn't like these people believe in Flat Earth,
My local anti-vaxxing, Straight Pride Festival hosting, “free drinks at my bar if you can prove you turned someone in to ICE”, white nationalist just tried to primary our Republican governor, who himself is helluva bigot, and while he lost he still got 30% of the vote. He’s also a flat earther who hosts round tables for fellow believers at his bar. There’s a substantial overlap in the illogical and irrational belief community.
Now, I don’t think he personally is a flat earther. Despite being repugnant, he’s an intelligent and charismatic person, smart enough to recognize gullibility and use it to gather strength of numbers. For a person like that to change they’d have to be willing to abandon the power they hold. It’s the same problem with podcasters, celebrities, snake oil salesmen, and talking heads that push these ideas. Plenty of them aren’t true believers, it’s a means to profit and clout. There comes a point where you have to stop looking at people as victims of their own ignorance and instead intentionally harmful for their own gain at the expense of others.
There’s also the problem of religious beliefs. We allow people a lot of leeway in spirituality because humans do seem to have a need to feel connected to something “greater”. When someone does that in a manner where their belief guides them but has respect for the rights and boundaries of others, fine. When spirituality becomes religion it often ends up becoming another tool of oppression and unaccountability because people begin demanding their to practice their beliefs regardless of how it’s affecting others. Since god is made up, you can put any words you’d like in god’s mouth to justify your behavior, and worst case you disregard the people you love around because “only god can judge me”.
The US created a problematic loophole with its hands off approach to religious beliefs. If people used their liberty to pursue beliefs that nurtured their personal spirituality and self actualization it’d be great. Instead it’s become a breeding ground for hucksters to develop their own cults of “this is what the ancient book really meant”, or sometimes they just write a brand new book. And we do at times come together to quash behaviors of the religious even at the expense of an individual’s right to act on their supposed god endorsed beliefs because that practice violates the right of another. Joe Smith informed people god was chill with dudes marrying multiple teenagers, but that one’s gotten quashed (for the most part, but some sects still do it, they just have to live removed from society). We’re still fighting to quash child marriage loopholes and male genital mutilation. I don’t care if your god impregnated a teenager with your Savior, your prophet married a child, or your god commanded you to cut of the end of a kid’s penis as a sign of devotion. It’s gross. They’re gross and people are gross for abiding it.
Arguments of logic and reason don’t work on people whose core belief is based on the existence of an invisible, all powerful, universal puppet master. It results in people who do not take accountability for why they must be accountable for their actions in the here and now, judged for their behavior by fellow humans instead of some future where god decides. It also creates people who are willfully ignorant of cause and effect, prevention and accident. I’m content to let adults dance around in a church with a handful of rattlesnakes. I could tell you why that’s a bad idea, but if an adult wants to lose an arm or their life engaging in that, welp. Their life to lose. Spreading disease or denying a child access to healthcare because they’re praying over them instead; not their life to lose.
help them resolve whatever broken logic or unresolved emotional issues is standing in the way of them doing the right thing.
Like an addict, who continues to destroy themselves and the lives of those in their circle/community with their addiction, repairing broken logic and unresolved emotional issues can’t be helped by external forces until they make the decision to change for themselves and then accept the help. Otherwise they cycle repeatedly through the consequences of losing their privilege of being a part of society, turn themselves into pariahs as the community shuns them to avoid the collateral damage of their behavior, or kills themselves through their own choices. We don’t have to tolerate the fallout of selfishness while they “work on it”. At what point do we look at the pox ridden, scarred for life, maybe dead body of a child then turn to the adult that helped cause that and say “nah, fuck you, your right to chose is revoked”.
This isn’t the dark ages, people aren’t unaware of the sources of disease. We’ve had a good thousand years to figure out where they come from and our literacy rate, declining as it is, is sufficient that we can demand a baseline understanding of cause and effect out of adults. If they want to put up a fight, fine. I’ll fight them over it. If bullying them to the point their only choice is to live cut-off from society so they can’t spread their disease and die alone, unvaxxed but self-satisfied they clung to their belief to the miserable, painful end, so be it.
That's a lot of words to come around to the conclusion that you believe we should force people to undergo unwanted medical procedures for "the greater good". I'm sorry, but that idea is even more harmful than anti-vaxxers. This exact same sentiment was used to justify unbelievable atrocities in the past, such as sterilizing minority groups and things like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study.
I agree with you that people need to want to change to change, but bullying and belittling them is counterproductive to encouraging people to want to change.
The fact is that you just want to feel justified in treating people badly, because you (totally justifiably) feel that those people are doing bad things. You need to recognize that you need to choose between working towards solving the problem, or just making yourself feel better by shitting on them.
Societal shame and alienation may have worked in a pre-Internet world, but it works no longer. No matter how depraved, destructive, or horrible someone's behavior is, there will be a community on the Internet who supports and encourages it. The ONLY WAY to reach those people, to keep them from falling deeper down rabbit holes, is through compassion.
I’m not implying forced vaccinations from the government, I’m suggesting that when your neighbor is a threat to the most vulnerable members of your community, you, yes, you the person I’m talking to, unite with your likeminded neighbors and do everything in your power to isolate, ostracize, and exclude that person from society until their only choice becomes live in total isolation or complies. Our government is in the hands of the anti-vax enablers, they’re not going to do anything about it. It’s your responsibility to identify the threats to children, the elderly, and the most vulnerable in your community and neutralize them.
They don’t even need to change their minds about it, just like a bigot is free to be a bigot in the privacy of their own home. You can’t force a white supremecist to abandon their mindset because you cannot “make” someone believe what they don’t want to believe. You can only make espousing their beliefs and acting upon them in public a costly endeavor.
Look at what’s happening in Africa with the Ebola outbreak. The demand for access to dangerous corpses due to religious beliefs is fueling the destruction of the facilities trying to protect the public and will result in the disease continuing to spread. Measles and Covid are bad, Ebola is pretty much just death waiting to happen. Would you tolerate “right to deny” and demand we coddle deniers with patience and compassion if they were willfully exposing society to some of our most lethal diseases? If yes, well, there’s nothing left to discuss. If not, why do you demand we tolerate them scarring children for life with something that could have been prevented.
We do already hold people accountable for knowingly spreading disease. If someone knows they’re HIV positive and continues to spread it without informing their partner of the risk, they are penalized for it. HIV isn’t even the death sentence it was 30yrs ago, but it is a lifelong medical burden that can affect quality of life and life expectancy. Why do we allow others to spread diseases that cause suffering, scar, cause long term health issues, and sometimes kill? The responsibility for protecting your community is on you, not the government.
I understand what you're getting at, and I even addressed this exact point in my last comment:
Societal shame and alienation may have worked in a pre-Internet world, but it works no longer. No matter how depraved, destructive, or horrible someone’s behavior is, there will be a community on the Internet who supports and encourages it. The ONLY WAY to reach those people, to keep them from falling deeper down rabbit holes, is through compassion.
Societal ostracization, stigmatization, they just don't work anymore as a means of discouraging negative behaviors. That's why overt white supremacy has made a comeback, despite being the most stigmatized, widely derided and most culturally unacceptable pattern of behavior. Shaming people is no longer effective to change behavior. If it was, Trump never would have been a viable candidate.
The only remaining reason to treat people poorly is to make ourselves feel better. There's no other benefit to doing so anymore. I'd recommend you accept the reality of the world we're living in.
You don’t understand what I’m getting at. The internet is not your community. You have no idea if you’re talking to someone that lives next door or across the planet, someone talking in good faith or deliberately repeating negativity, an actual human or a bot. My suggestion is not about how to waste time arguing with anonymous opinions on social media, it’s about how to deal with a flesh and blood person in real life.
Shaming someone on the internet achieves nothing, they can block, ignore, and go about their lives knowing there’s no possible way you could impose consequences for their actions on how they operate. They can easily call your bluff because neither of us know who the other is and even if we did manage to find out, most of us aren’t going to travel somewhere just to escalate a social media beef.
We’re interconnected globally but most of us only have an impact locally. This is where ostracism and isolation work. You should start with an attempt at dialogue, but have enough sense to recognize when irrationality is not naivety but willfull ignorance fueled by selfishness.
Adults have the right to ignore all the learning and experience they’ve acquired, deny the patterns of history, and refuse the aid of humanity to the point their behavior is self-destructive and kill themselves. You can’t force a change on that behavior, you can only isolate it so that when it does self-destruct its impact is negligible. Their boundary of right to self-destruction is when that process heaps repercussions on another who doesn’t want that, especially the most vulnerable who can’t prevent the recklessly selfish person from hurting them.
That behavior is something you can quarantine in person. I could tell the people burning down Ebola hospitals why they shouldn’t handle corpses, but I can’t stop them. If my neighbor drug a corpse home I could sit a reasonable distance from their front door and tell them “enjoy your misery, but step one foot out that door and it’ll be your last”. I can tell some Zionist foot soldier what a piece of shit I think they are online but I’m personally powerless to stop them. I can however put myself between their ideological kin in my town make them afraid to act on their beliefs.
I might not even win, physically or legally, the current regime is not on my side when it comes to suppressing hateful ideology with the threat of or escalation to force. That’s the risk. I’ve gotten my ass beaten trying to convince neo-Nazis they weren’t welcome in our community spaces and I’ve run them out of town when our force was bigger and better equipped. Sometimes that’s been achieved by raising community awareness of what they were trying to do and denying them a place to rally (the Hammerskins wanted to have a music festival, we made sure no venue would host them), sometimes with threat of force (we armed ourselves, didn’t brandish, but put ourselves in front of truckload of white boys harassing the Hispanic families in our neighborhood and made it clear; get the fuck out), and sometimes you just throw hands with bigots in a back alley. There’s no authority to appeal to, they don’t care and their ranks are currently filled with folks who support the cause of the haters anyway.
Internet shame doesn’t work. Occasionally you might find someone worth the effort of responding to. Like me and you. We might disagree on some points of how to deal with the problem, but at least there’s a conversation here worth having even if we don’t end up on the same page. But we can’t directly affect each other’s ability to do anything, it’s all just words. The power to prevent or reduce harm in your community is offline and in person. Don’t abandon the power of the internet to communicate globally, to have good conversations and maybe shape opinions, but recognize its limits and the situations where you actually become the agent of change/protection/prevention.
Yeah, I was talking about in real life, too - I'm a union rep and I've been very active in my local area's activist groups for almost all my adult life, so I know full well that organizing IRL is absolutely everything and the Internet is just a way to communicate as best we can.
What you described is more like community self-defense, which is absolutely vital - and I applaud you for doing it - but I'm sure you recognize that the neo-nazis you ran out of town didn't change their ways, they just went somewhere else, or went underground.
What I'm really talking about is how you change people, rather than just protecting ourselves from them. Please don't misunderstand me here: for some people (maybe even many people, these days, sadly) there is a point where words can do no more good and force is necessary to mitigate the harm they cause - I think we agree on that. However, where we may disagree (or maybe we've just had a communications breakdown) is that the use of force to protect communities from harmful people/behavior shouldn't include bullying them, because it's just counter-productive - it doesn't help you to protect yourself and it does nothing to change the people you use it against. These people likely already see us as enemies simply because we're acting in opposition to their world view, and any attempts to shame them will only validate the "us-vs-them" narratives common in communities like these.
This isn't an abstract conversation, for me. My dad was really abusive and taught me a lot of really terrible lessons, and I basically was a neo-nazi when I was a teen. It has taken me a long time to get to where I am. I would never have been able to break free from the hateful ideology I was brainwashed into believing if it wasn't for people willing to extend compassion towards me, and demonstrate that not everyone sees the world the way my dad taught me everyone sees it.
People treating me badly, bullying me, shaming me, ostracizing me, all of that just confirmed everything my dad taught me, that there are people who hate me for who I am, and that those people see me as subhuman - and that I should see them as subhuman, too.
I'm not saying that you need to be nice to neo-nazis, far from it - beat them up, push them out of your town, do what you need to do to look after yourself, the people you care about, and your community. But we need to recognize that doing that is only dealing with symptoms of a disease rather than dealing with the actual cause. The only way to actually treat this disease in the long term is compassion for those whose compassion has been cut off. Otherwise, the cycle of violence will just continue forever.
For some perspective on my experience, grew up in an extremely Christian conservative, extremely bigoted and abusive home, it’s just my folks were filthy rich, two-faced pillars of the community in public so they got a pass. Both my brother and I are adopted. I’m white, he’s Hispanic. Despite racist lessons, I grew up watching how the rest of the world treated him, despite being culturally white (and my parents brainwashed his ethnicity out of him while touting how great they were for “rescuing” an impoverished brown child), the community that knew exactly who we were treated him second class compared to me. I was also not surprised when he came out, which resulted in multiple “scared straight” attempts by our parents. Also worth noting I grew up in Idaho, where white nationalism has long been vocal and public.
My history of violence is originally rooted in pure misguided rage marginally channeled into something productive (fighting Nazis), but I did find community building channels in my teens. I was in Seattle in ‘99, lived at Occupy for months, and a lot in between. I’ve volunteered with refugee resettlement (Boise is a major center for placing new Americans) and as a dog rescuer, have been involved with our shelter’s program that pairs pups who need a little extra help before they’re ready with inmate trainers. My thoughts on justice, rehabilitation, and restoration changed greatly because of this experience.
People absolutely can change. Inmate volunteers are heavily prescreened by the prison before acceptance into the program, but the only automatic disqualification is a history of animal abuse. So the volunteers range from druggies, to sex offenders, to murders, to gang bangers. It’s a full spectrum of humanity who has done some heinous shit, held some genius beliefs, and while they are all working on themselves, not all are “redeemed”. Some will get out, some are lifers. My job is not to judge. They had their trials, they’ve been found guilty, their sentence is what it is. I don’t google their stories but I have a good idea of who’s in for what and some, while very capable of being loving and gentle with a dog, I agree that permanent removal from society is the best solution. But they do forever remain human, and capable of change, the onus is on them to do so.
I’ve also known a lot of miscreants in real life. Junkies, abusers, racists, bigots. I’ve met people like you, who went down a bad path but pulled themselves out. And while I never indulged white supremacy, I’ve still been violent, an addict, a womanizer, egotistical, made homophobic/misogynistic/ableist/bigoted jokes, and punched down. Like you, I got friendly support from others who saw potential for change and politely encouraged me to “do better”.
But I can’t deny the times hard boundaries, push back, and ostracism worked on me as well. It’s a hard lesson, when people you know care about you put up the wall of “love ya, don’t like ya right now”. Both can pressure change.
Where I don’t know the right path is America as it is. In the 90’s, in Idaho, we tolerated the “right to free speech” and allowed the Aryan Nations compounders and Dick Butler to file for permits and exercise the free speech and parade around once a year. The rest of the year they retreated to their compound, which eventually got sued out of existence after they Nazi’d too hard. It’s not that version of America anymore.
Our great experiment is failing. After all my teenage and youth aggression I should have grown, mostly kinda did. I shouldn’t be considering show of force to drive bands of emboldened haters out of my neighborhood. The modern world has never seen a “superpower” embrace hate on the level of the US. Even at its worst the Third Reich was 1/3 the territory the US is, didn’t have the resources and infrastructure the US has, and a lot of what it had acquired was subverting it. We’re in uncharted territory and there’s plenty of plebs all in that will enable whatever to get one step ahead, backtrack on the leader when it doesn’t come fast enough, but empower the next best promise at the expense of whoever they consider lesser.
I don't give a fuck about changing their minds, only their behaviour
They can take a vaccine and then whine, or put half a potato on it, or claim to be magnetic now
Just so long as the stupid cunts get vaccinated to protect the most vulnerable people in our society
Okay, so your options there are either to force them to have vaccinations, which would be a violation of their human rights, or to change their minds so that they voluntarily get vaccinations.
Remember, these people are generally just acting out of fear and ignorance. Treating them poorly won't change their behaviour, it'll only alienate them further from the rest of society.
Bullying people is a completely ineffective means of changing behaviour. It's actually likely to make them dig their heels in further and become even more entrenched in their views just out of pure opposition to their perceived enemies.
Exactly. bulling is unacceptable but not bullying is ok.
MAGAs and Anti-Vaxxers are societal evil and deserve nothing but universal condemnation.
If they were being bullied we'd be forcing them to take the vaccine.
Im not sure I would call that bullying. Its a mandate for a public but it becomes muddled because some people legitamately can not get a vaccine and there can be side effects no matter how minor (especially in comparison to the disease). Which is why ultimately its best to make it super prevalent. We should make it free for everyone who wants it every year and have it updated if we want more people to have more up to date resistance.
Dumbass liberal take.
The unwritten rules of society rely on people acting in good faith. If someone just honestly believes that the moon landing was fake or fairies are real or whatever, cool, I don't really give a fuck.
As soon as your dipshit beliefs start negatively impacting other people, especially when they're provably false, you invite any and all criticism. The social contract is broken.
This is just the paradox of tolerance except "bullying is bad"
There's a difference between criticism and bullying. Criticism can be constructive and help people to change. Bullying just isolates and alienates people and tends to calcify their positions.
It's all a matter of what we want. Do we want to feel superior? That's what bullying is for. Do we want to help people change their ways? Then go for constructive criticism.
Another dumbass liberal take.
Fascists are winning everywhere because of tolerant morons like you.
Not all ideas are valid. Again, if you break the social contract by spreading harmful misinformation, all bets are off. You deserve to be alienated and cast out of society. That's how a social contract works.
Okay, let me put this in the language of bullying, so you can understand it.
I'm not a liberal, you fucking dipshit, and I'm not tolerant towards harmful ideologies, I'm just smart enough to recognize the fucking reality: you need a theory of change, to actually change things. Are you seriously fucking stupid enough to believe that calling someone names will change their minds, you fucking moron?
Did that work? Are you convinced? No? Oh well maybe your approach is fucking stupid, then, and you need to learn from someone who actually has deradicalized nazis before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law
It's not my job to debate with morons. It's a waste of time and energy.
You know, there's no shame in admitting you were wrong. If anything, being able to admit when one was wrong is an admirable trait.
They didn't mention just people they don't like though, they mentioned objectively bad people. Same with Nazis, Racists, Pedophiles, Rapists etc. They're bad, it's not a like or dislike thing, just pure truth of shitty people that deserve bullying.
Bully implies a lack of objectivity. Bring them to justice to make a legal decision on wrong which is about the best objective communal take we can get.
No, tolerance of intolerance is a failing strategy
not bullying is not tolerance.
Do you see the fucking picture? Do you understand that this isn't a joke, that they've successfully brought back measles?
Bully them for their beliefs. They should be shamed out of existence.
taking them out of existence permanently is also not ok for some people.
I don't care. You can join them if your answer is to simply let them continue destroying the planet.
thats fine but if you want to make everyone your enemies you will have a tough time of it. I mean go for it. Kill, maime, murder and let me know if you improved the world. I will march and not comply and insist. It may work or not but I won't hurt anyone. that is just not going to happen. I will challenge. I will even mock. But there are limits.
No, dude — I said nothing about killing you, or them for that matter.
These are cultists. They are brainwashed. They will always reject what you think, what you say — all on the simple basis that thay their ignorance is worth more than your knowledge.
These are factors that should be shamed. Shamed so heavily that one of three things happens: the person changes, the person secludes from society (i.e. fucks off and probably dies young), or kills themself.
Ideally the person changes, that would be the best outcome. But when I look at that child and think of all the other children who simply can't get the vaccine, for whatever reason that might be; the only thing I feel is hate.
I no longer care if these people survive. They should all suffer for what they've done, whether they change or not. Children do not deserve to suffer like this.
Edit: This is saying nothing about the man these people undoubtedly support and what he's done. Measles is not the only thing these people have to answer for.
shame is not bullying. I mean unless its relentless. Im sure some would disagree with me on that but I think shame is a relatively good thing and we need more of it in modern society. I mean for things people should be shameful for. Shame is only bad when folks want to shame normal things that are not the way they like it. Like someons sexuality or such. I mean our president should feel constant shame for his actions.
Are you suggesting a bully people I do like because that seems kind of productive.
leopards can tag in the LIONS, CHEETAhs, servals, caracals, wild dogs, and jackals.
Good thing there's no major sporting events being held in the US any time soon 😐
Such a dumb fucking nation
We deserve to fail
Humanity is not worth saving
the rash isnt even the worst part, its the panechepalitis that can lie dormant in younger children, which is more lethal.
panencephalitis*
I did not know what this was, fortunately panechepalitis is not terribly far off lol
I'd love if the US were entirely quarantined, and let's make it forty years
Don't lock me in with these people
Too late. Where's your Bible? Why aren't you carrying it? You know the law. And those don't look like Trump sneakers.
Two hundred, please
American Century of Humiliation
Having the measles sucks.
I had the measles, then chicken pox, and finally strep throat, just for fun, one right after the other when I was a kid. April 1975. I know exactly when it was, because I remember laying on the couch, watching TV and learning that the Vietnam War had ended. I thought to myself, 'I didn't know we were at war.'
Meh, natural selection at its finest... Poor kids, though... forced to be born in a 1700's bubble
This is completely removed from natural selection. We didn’t evolve vaccination, we invented it. Another measles outbreak is just more needlessly sick people.
I meant, selection over mental or social configuration.
Vaccinated people can get the measles.
I didn't know that! Is the intensity of the illness the same?
My point is that it’s extraordinarily cold of you to imply that all contractions of the measles are instances of natural selection.
Oh... well, it was more like a general observation: not all hawks that starve to death have small claws, but it is likely that those with small claws will greatly contribute to the toll. (analogy pulled out of my ass)
Yeah that makes sense. I was kind of taken aback by what initially seemed to be the tunnel vision behind the sentiment.
So? Unvaccinated people get the measles more frequently and suffer worse consequences. The problem is the quantities involved.
Too many stupid people enjoying comforts under the protection of our sciences, while simultaneously selectively rejecting the very thing providing said comforts and protections. I have no more empathy left for them.
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns doctors with syringes. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? Jenny McCarthy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago natural immunity, and you curse the Marines vaccine. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Santiago's death preventable diseases extinction, while tragic necessary, probably saved saves lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
free riders doing their best to wreck the bus
The good thing about this is that it will remind people why we were vaccinating in the first place, complacency, attention span and all that needs a reset now and then.
The blistering on the skin, yikes. I am fortunate to have parents that did not fuck around with vaccines and allowed medicine to do their work.