Say it ain't so
18d 17h ago by discuss.online/u/VetOfTheSeas in memes from discuss.online
Just showing off, excuse me
Well, username checks out.
Genuinely made me laugh
Homeboy mixed up his username and his password.
I hope autofill did that. That’s for sure a rando password right?
This guy types so much, friction completely erased the prints
it wasn't there in the first place :p
get in touch with their support if you haven't already
I think you misunderstand, i payed 10€ to not have the prints, because not only it's wrong when the layout changes (i do this a lot) but it is also way cooler looking
It's actually good to have the wrong layout printed. You'll get multiple times the confusion, especially with non-touch-typists, who'll just assume they hit all the wrong keys, and will try again and again.
How is that good exactly?
Hard mode on, I see.
aaaaaalright
I had key caps like that in grad school both in my home and school computers. Made it real awkward when friends would come over and try to use my computer for something (e.g. look up some songs to put on a Spotify playlist).
well i have no friends, so am safe
My main keyboard was a blank das keyboard for a while, and I had a Fisher price learning keyboard that I'd pull out for my friends if my keyboard intimidated them.
I had a more sedate keyboard for those I didn't know well enough.
That is very funny trolling and exactly how one should treat their friends
framework spotted! (13 pro? wink wink)
I see another fella 😉
If only, I have a 10 year old Macbook Air lmao
I thought the pro only came in the black/graphite
I can handle most typing by touch but there's no way I'm going to remember the ampersand, carrot, and percentage keys.
Oh, you'd learn if you tried. Sounds way harder than it is.
I'd learn if I practiced.
The problem is that I'm not using those keys very often, so it doesn't stick in my mind.
And there's no way I'm going to practice either. There's basically no point for me.
Start using vim and you’ll learn real quick
Now make it dvorak
Now make it programmer-dvorak
Those keys still have the lines on them
You still need the lines. The lines are there to identify where to put your fingers, not to tell you what key you're on.
Your confidence is intimidating
Wish they offered ortho too.
🥵
I’m with ya
Hehe solid choice 😎 have a nice day/evening
No one makes this for iOS that I can tell
Blank phone keyboards heh :)
They didn't teach typing when I was in school. I guess it's an assumed skill? Anywho, I still knew what those notches/bumps were for :3
Out of curiosity, about when were you in grade school? I learned touch typing in the late 90s in middle school. I remember laminated construction paper taped to each keyboard so we could learn visually first, then had to flip it over and cover our hands to start developing the muscle memory for each set of keys.
Not who you asked but I was in highschool in the 2010s and they had a typing class but it was an elective.
We didn't start IT until 5th grade, which would've been in 2012-2013 :3
80s kid here, we learned on typewriters and the shared apple ii in the library. I was good at it because I knew piano and it just settled easy in my mind.
I made it mandatory for my kids to learn because I just knew this shit would be needed. Also didn’t allow for short words like LOL until they could type it out. Daughter got to a point where her “laugh out loud” was amazingly fast and she begged me to let her “be normal” lmfao.
The best typing training I ever got was IRC. You had to learn to type fast or some idiot wouldn't know how wrong he was.
This definitely prepared me for a career where 90% of my interaction with coworkers is via chat.
Arguing with strangers on the internet taught me more than any teacher ever could.
Nuh uh! :p
JK, me too. XD
I took typing lessons back in the mid ‘90’s, which was VERY uncommon for teens to do. When we got the first online multiplayer games, they only had text chat. I certainly had the fastest, foulest mouth in chat 😂
I had a high school class in the mid-90s that taught you how to type. It was taught on typewriters.
There we go!
I spent more time socializing on World of Warcraft than actually leveling. Had lots of friends, and since been happily married to my best one!
Touch typing skills were essential, especially mid-combat.
...Or being the undiagnosed ADHD socialite I was, keeping like 8 running whisper and guild chats going in the game's single chat window at once... 😂
While I can also say IRC, wasn't anything like proving someone wrong, just keeping up with the speed of the conversation required being able to type without looking at the keyboard.
Yeah, I feel like Discord (ugh) got that way quick, too, in more populated rooms. IIRC, IRC didn't have that "quote for context" either, so if you were hunt-and-pecking the conversation already moved on lol.
Yeah, for me it was all AIM chats, though I had a couple friends who used IRC. But if you wanted to be part of the conversation, you better know how to type. You wanna make a quip? Better be quick, because so does everyone else.
it took me quite some time to learn not to automatically append ":D" at the end of messages in business chat
Lol
My parents had me partake in a touch typing course. Only a few years later, after becoming a wbb2 forum mod, did I truly begin to appreciate and practice that skill.
Also a great way to learn Dvorak. Memorize the key combo to switch between the two depending on how detailed you need to be in telling them they are wrong, but as long as you keep making yourself spend a little more time on the less familiar layout, you'll eventually become fluent and won't have to contort your fingers as much regularly to type quickly.
Though typing games can help, too.
I should start out playing Zork with a Dvorak layout.
Zvorak or something
I just jumped in after a few weeks of typing practice using one of those learn Dvorak sites
IRC and Diablo 2 for me. You had to type fucking quick if you wanted to say something while your character was running to the spot you clicked on because you couldn't click again until you finished and hit enter on that message lol.
I was too late for IRC, but i was just in time for chat websites. Never was interested in 10-finger-typing, until i discovered online chats. After that, i was one of the fastest in my class.
Playing MUDs felt like an advanced typing course to me. Especially before scripts and shit became available in the front end. Running around, going through attacks, spells, changing stances, running back to town, roleplaying with other players, reading description text and needing to figure out if a had to go through or climb something and it would get real fun if someone was fighting a mob in the room you entered. Raids and stuff were just insane. Trying to keep up with everything and typing constantly without using the mouse for anything. I haven’t thought about playing those games for a long time, thanks for the walk down memory lane!
RuneScape
Well... Ill explain for somebody who doesnt know:
Those are four your index finger. For the left and right hand.
So you can always have a base point for your typing without looking
Those are four your index finger.
But I only have two index fingers. Is that why I’m not good at typing?
I mostly type with my index and middle fingers only and type 144+ wpm lol... My wife's always like "wth"
I’ve met a few people like that. Often they don’t go to the gym or do any form of exercise so this is how they choose to exert around 5,000 to 7,000N/cm2 for each of those keystrokes.
With not a millimetre of irony in their face they then tell you they need this brand of mechanical keyboard because the “cheaper ones all break”.
I had to break the nerd cycle that don't touch grass, I gym 2 hours a day every day after work. And, don't you know? The loudest keyboard in the office is the most dominate!! 😂
It's not just typing speed. It's also comfort and strain on your wrists and hand muscles.
Good typing position significantly reduces the risks of carpal tunnel syndrome, among other things.
I strongly disagree. I firmly believe that the "proper form" you and I were taught is why carpal tunnel is so common(I don't think it one size fits all) People should do what's comfortable for them. In fact, I'm pushing mid-30 and when I use proper form I get uncomfortable pain, and if I get a chair that doesn't line up the armrest with my desk perfectly I also get uncomfortable pain. It's possible that growing up with computers like I did I found what just worked for me, but I've never found the proper form comfortable. I've had computer classes up into my adult life.
With a good chair (my Herman) and wrist rest (a wood block) I've had 0 pain and work at my computer 8+ hours a day. I never leave my desk with any strain.
Hell almost every engineer I know doesn't type properly. For me, the real problem is I always tuck a foot under me and sit on it. 😂
Cool.
Yessir the right way to learn to type was to out spam the spammers in world chat on WoW and trade 1 world on RS in 2005.
whoosh
I'll fuckin bite because everyone else missed it.
How are these suppose to help when I have 144+ index fingers??? There's not enough keys, let alone keys with whatever those little lines are
Ooooh. Thanks for the explanation!
cant you tell where your fingers are by just looking at what keys appear on your screen?
Back in the typewriter era it will cost you whiteouts every time you do this.
would looking down to see the key cost too much time?
Well nothing is stopping you from looking down. But this is a neat feature for those who knows to use it.
As a blind computer user I'm shocked at how many people forget touch typing exists. I learned earlier than most, by necessity, and didn't have to take the then-mandatory keyboarding classes in middle school.
you're blind ? using lemmy ? dude please talk more , how ? heck how did you even see the image ?!
Blind doesn't mean they can't see anything. Just that they have impaired vision.
My mother used to work for the Minnesota State Services for the Blind, so I grew up around a bunch of blind people. Most of them could partially see. They were considered "legally blind." But they still needed tools to help them "see" better.
That's what my mother's job did; they provided access to equipment to assist blind people in their day-to-day lives. Converting books into braille or audio recordings, supplying walking canes, tape decks, and access to other resources to help them out.
They also gave out radios tuned to their own station, and they had a broadcasting studio in the office where employees or volunteers would just read newspapers or magazines for blind people to listen to over the radio.
Granted, my memory of all this was back before the Internet was a thing. I'm sure there are more advanced tools for this modern day and age that help with computer access.
Why call them blind then? The definition of blind says 1/10 or less of normal vision. There’s no way you can read text on a phone or computer with that.
I always assumed blind people just used TTS and voice reading.
Blindness comes in many different forms. It's not about your vision being blurred or completely dark. Some blind people can only see clearly through tiny slits or pinholes in their vision.
Imagine a sheet of paper that you poke maybe 2 or 3 small holes in, then hold up a few inches from your face. Those holes are all you can see through in your field of vision; the rest is obscured.
And then there are people who need bottle-lensed glasses just to be able to barely read large 100-pt text in front of their face. They're considered blind, even though they have some vision.
My mother had a Polish friend from her work who was like this. He had insanely thick glasses and walked mostly without a cane in familiar areas, but would have to touch your face to gauge your reaction while talking with you. Or practically press his face up against yours to look you in the eye. He had a laptop that would scan documents and display them in massive font so he could read them on the go.
Also, one of my best friends in high school woke up blind one day. His corneas detached from his eyeballs; a genetic defect from his family. He didn't wake up in a dark room, he could still see shapes and colors. But he couldn't focus on any of them.
I was tasked with walking him to each of his classes in school, because I had experience leading the blind. His greatest annoyance was when people waved their hand in front of his face and asked if he could see it. When he flinched (because a large blurry object came at his head), they accused him of faking blindness because he saw them. But he couldn't make out what was coming at him, he was just reacting to sudden movements near his face.
My friend eventually got corneal transplants, which restored most of his vision. But he can never drive a car because his vision isn't good enough to read road signs, even with corrective lenses. He's considered legally blind.
When you need to split hairs, blind folks will call themselves "legally blind" if they have some limited sight, or "totally/completely blind" if they have no vision whatsoever. But if your optometrist claims you qualify for legally blind, you're generally considered blind amongst their community and qualify for any associated disability benefits that come with blindness.
I see, makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.
I worked with a guy doing tech support that was blind. It was fascinating. He couldn't of course see images. He would often ask me what was on the screen so he could help the caller. He used a Braille keyboard. It was awesome. Basically scroll line by line and the keyboard pops up the line enabling him to read it.
That’s super awesome. Your employer was doing a good thing enabling that
Yeah he was a really crazy interesting guy. At one point in time I actually let him drive my car in the parking lot because he said he had never driven a car before and he was always curious about it. Scariest 10 minutes of my life but it was an awesome blast to do that. He actually did pretty good at taking direction except for when we hit a curb because I told him to turn two sharp going around some of the berms.
Being blind is a spectrum, but even 'fully' blind people can use phones and computers with a screen reader.
Alt-text allows people to describe images, OCR can recognise text in images, and now AI can also describe images.
Blind people aren't helpless, incapable or dependent, like some stereotypes might lead you to believe. Many are able to live relatively normal, independent lives.
Some even play videogames and stream on twitch.
But some find constantly being asked the same questions and needing to inform others that they aren't incapable to be quite annoying. Especially when this sort of info is readily available online.
I looked it up , didn't find that much I didn't call him incapable , I didn't put any thing negative towards him , I was just curious !
I never said you did, and it's perfectly normal to be curious.
It's just that blind people have to answer these same uninformed questions all the time, and it can be tiring.
Saying you did look it up seems worse to me than saying you didn't.
One acknowledges a lack of effort, the other implies notable effort and failure at a relatively simple task.
No judgement intended, I'm just trying to instill some introspection. I'll leave you be now.
Screen readers have gotten pretty good. They can use OCR to read text on an image if it's not too jpeg'd and there's even some that can describe the image a bit.
Many communities also have rules that you have to add captions to your images.
Touch typing means a whole different thing now lol
Born in time to ask shitty questions on Twitter.
Born too late to JUST FUCKING GOOGLE IT.
UST UCKING GOOGLE IT
FTFY
Not to get too technical, but you meant
TY
You're welcome!
I would guess some people like learning being a social experience
This. Some people seem to take the desire to learn from a person as a personal attack, too.
They don’t teach much of anything anymore. Schools are babysitters that give grades.
"just ask AI"
tbf i loved computers when they first became common cuz i could do tutorials on them and tutorials arent emotional and grow impatient and say it doesnt have time for all my questions.
which just goes to show just how there is lots of bad teachers out there.
so i get it. especially for neuro divergent peeps who are legitimately curious and are trying but scared to take up anyone's time, i really get it. Personally i think its good OP brings a question and people who do have time do answer.
this is the way.
I read something yesterday about influencers posting about history and inserting themselves in historical locations/events using ai.
They place themselves in-between survivors on a boat, while the Titanic sinks, for example. Making themselves look as miserable as the others.
Their motivation is that they think that teaching using textbooks is incompatible with many students and just plain boring.
Not just influencers. EdTech, including Khan Academy, is pushing AI to make virtual versions of historical figures to engage students.
Hi Lisa! I'm Gehngis Khan. You'll go where I go! Defile what I defile! Eat who I eat!
I mean history shows always have done reenactments. It’s just the current iteration of that.
30 Years ago
F J F J F J .... G H G H G H ....
all lads had a sad lass
Look, I hadn't learned what to do with girls yet ok? I got better.
Hopefully this is helpful.
I came in here ready to say home keys. Then I thought that might be confusing without an explanation given the actual “home” key. Then no one was calling them that even though the lemmy demographic skews older.
I wish home row mods were people's default on top of touch typing. It's just peak comfort when combined with a layout that isn't QW***Y.
What layouts do you suggest?
I don't have much to recommend since I dove straight into enthium but qwerty is just such a bad unhealthy (aka unergonomic) layout that choosing any of the mainstream alt layouts will be objectively better for you and any system shold have them. Here are some general pointers though: https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/alt-layouts/#which-alt-keyboard-layout-should-i-learnand https://cyanophage.github.io/index.html
The most low hanging fruit would be having the more common characters on home row. After that the improvements become exponentionally harder to get and more opinioniated since everything is a tradeoff of sorts and preferences come into play as well.
< rant> I may know significantly more on the topic in a few months since I'm trying to design my own 1-handed layout/layers for one split keyboard half for convenience and/through independency from needing to use two hands to do anything on the system. I find it super hard to find keyboard layouts meant for one hand and even those I find are overwhelmingly lowballed garbage that simply split existing layouts like qwerty and slap a mirror layer key on it completely disregarding any and all unique needs for such a workflow. Like, ~1/3rd of your key presses should not be spent on shifting between mirror layer in a situation where efficiency is more important than ever since you are already giving up 1 hand and half the keys when opting into such a layout. There are many people that actually have only one hand and don't do it just for convenience so I'd have assumed that there would be something well designed and battletested like enthium (which is 2 handed for clarification) simply because it would be an accessibility thing but apparently not. So now I will have to study ergonomics of keyboard layouts from start to finish and then some to cover the additional unique contraints of one handed layouts. As far as my initial research went it doesn't seem like there are good layout analysers taking layers and layer switching into account which makes it even more complicated to work on such a layout. ;-;
Regarding typing there also doesn't seem to be any controller centric virtual keyboards (or remappers) that optimise for text input speed and ergonomy on a controller. I use a basic system-level remapper to make the thumbsticks act as cursor and scrolling with the other keys be bound to given keys depending on a given workflow since sometimes I just want to relax and do something in a comfortable position but it's not apparengly a thing either. And those are just 2 of my multiple issues that are in my way of making my system feel juuuuuuust right to use. 🤬 </rant>
I know nothing about this stuff, but i guess it's very hard to make a layout for single hand use, maybe you can add some keys that toggle a layer only for the top half or bottom half of the keyboard and they will leave the layer on until another keypres
Maybe the bottom layer could have all the punctuation stuff and the top one all the parentesis, symbols etc etc?
Okay, before I knew it I had wrote a whole essay going over my plans and whatnot but deleted it after realising I went off the rails and that I'm not even close to finishing.
The relevant tldr is that it wouldn't work in practice and layer shifting is not the issue but the frequency of it is.
Also yeah, simbol layers are a thing. And because it's just for convenience I don't plan to adapt the layout to work with all keyboards as glove80 does the job with it's thumb cluster (which only half of is comfortable enough to reach with my hands).
Is anybody gonna tell this oblivious 30 year old who's not particularly bad at typing what the lines are for?
So you can place your index fingers on the correct key without looking at the keyboard.
Huh, the more you know. Cheers!
I don't see how one wouldn't naturally get that, no offense. I mean, if one didn't paticularly really ever use a keyboard and typed like gen-x or olders, with index fingers, sure.
But surely if you're 30 and used a keyboard all your life you don't need to look at the keyboard while typing..?
No offense. I may just be way overusing one since I was a teenager idk.
I've seen an incredible number of people who were never taught to properly touchtype and where each finger goes and developed bizarre techniques to type with 4, 6, or 8 fingers that may be almost as fast as the proper one but horrendously non-ergonomic. Ubiquity of staggered layouts (instead of proper ortholinear) does not help — it's almost like it's begging to type Z with ring finger and X with middle one.
I’m deep into my 40s, and I’m one of those. I can get up to 70 words per minute for short stretches, but it’s still a weird dance that combines muscle memory and hand-eye coordination.
I did learn just enough to know to hover my hands and keep my arms at a good posture, so I’ve never had any RSI from typing. That also may be partly because that I’m so inconsistent that I don’t get enough of the R for RSI, LOL.
I touch type , and yes I figured out what the lines were for... But I definitely don't use them as reference points when I'm typing.
Doesn't really have to do whether youre good or bad. When they teach you officially, they show you that the j and f are the home row where your index fingers go. If you're self taught you might not know that and that's totally fine as long as you can still type.
I'm self-taught as well, and someone knowing the "proper" way to type could probably have a stroke looking at my hands on the keyboard lmao. But yeah since I don't need to look at the keys when I'm typing, and I still type pretty fast and without mistakes, who cares? If it works it works, even if it looks insane
Wow, they really don't teach you kids typing anymore, huh.
They don't teach typing anymore. Which is like. Makes zero sense.
I see college kids typing out essays with two index fingers.
No one learns typing unless forced. It's super boring.
They need to make it mandatory in public schools. Or future generations will be unable to type properly.
I learned it back in like 8th grade or something.
When I was a kid they taught us how to type in school. But they taught everybody how to type wrong: with your hands parallel to each other, instead of wrists straight. I nearly got carpal tunnel syndrome and had to learn how to type a second time!
We were taught the same. With a paper over our hands so we couldn’t cheat. My hands naturally moved off home row because it felt awkward to have my wrists bent. I hate the “natural” keyboards but my hands rest like they’re designed
I learned to keep my hands like that thanks to a really weird looking A4Tech ergonomic keyboard, then I realized I could just keep my wrists like that on any keyboard.
I used to have one of those ergonomic keyboards at my last job. Took a week probably to get fully used to (I typed all day). But I recall liking it.
I have small hands but even I feel like most keyboards are cramped. Especially laptop ones.
the egonomic one felt more open and relaxed. But it was wonky to use at first.
Was something like this one.
Split keyboards for the win! Mine and my wife's Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 is the epitome of "perfect keyboard". We both dread the day they die since they're no longer available.
8th grade? I had typing lessons in 4th!
Really depends on your age. I self-taught with my mom's typewriter when I was like 8 or 9 and then wasn't officially taught until 8th grade when computers became more commonplace in schools. Then I had to relearn when I went to school for transcription in my 20s because apparently my 8th grade teacher did a bad job.
Love typing though, my first video game was a typing game on a floppy disk on our windows 97.
That's actually so cool. I'm just a bit too young to have done so, but I would have loved to have learned on a typewriter. I've only ever touched one as a fun relic of the past, never for actual use.
I grew up with a computer in the 80s and for years i would stare at the keyboard while mentally keeping track of what I was typing.
I took keyboarding in middle school and learned to touch type but it took years of practice to break the habits I formed as a child.
Now I'll be typing something and my husband will walk in so I'll pause and look over to see what he needs. One time he said "don't stop on my account" so I started typing again while staring at him.
I can hold a full conversation while doing this but have to slow down to around 60wpm to avoid transcribing the conversation.
I took typing (on a typewriter) in eighth grade for the same reason I took Home Ec--that's where the girls were. I didn't know I'd actually be using the skill just a couple of years later.
My kid grew up in front of a computer, before such things were rightfully frowned upon. He taught himself to type, I've watched him do it. He uses the first two fingers of each hand and a thumb for the space bar. He types as fast as I do, which is to say, I've never been a particularly fast typist, but I get by okay.
What I never learned to do, because I don't do it much, is type with two thumbs on a phone.
Home ec was awesome. The girls didn't like me, but I can cook like a motherfucker.
I remember we cooked an omelette, but instead of flipping the egg, the teacher told us to just lift the edge and let the uncooked egg run underneath. I already knew how to cook an omelette, my dad taught me, so I flipped the egg by tossing the pan. The teacher didn't like that because then other kids tried it, and... I'm sure you can guess what happened.
While we're at it: Fuck those ASUS designers that decided to put those nubbins on W key. Republic of gamers my ass, ⇥a21` you.
People look at me like I'm taking crazy pills when I bring up The Typing of the Dead. Literally House of the Dead with a keyboard. You type or you die. It brings that Dark Souls energy to Mavis Beacon's doorstep.
First played it on my Sega Dreamcast. Probably the only way I could still play now since I don't have a CRT anymore for light guns.
They're referring to touch typing, which is a formal skill. The lines signify where your index fingers should rest when not used. All fingers are supposed to live in the middle row, and only go for their immediate neighbors up and down. It is not quite the same as just learning to type on your own.
We learned 10-key (number pad/big calculators) in the same "keyboarding" class. It's definitely a formal skill and there are specific methods used.
I know what they're referring to. And I'm saying that if you use keyboards enough, you will naturally develop the muscle memory required for touch typing.
As someone who developed muscle memory on keyboards from 4-6, and then had to unlearn that muscle memory when I was doing touch typing classes, it is just not true that you naturally acquire the muscle memory for touch typing through typing practice.
It's a formal skill that has to be practiced deliberately to develop.
Hybrid typists can definitely hit high WPM but unless they're learning to type using the 8 horizontal homerow keys it's not touch typing. It really is a specific technique.
(I did not downvote you, just adding to the conversation.)
There is no significant difference in WPM or accuracy between people who were self-taught, and those who had formal education. Refusing to call it touch typing, simply because it isn't using a specific technique, is pedantic at best.
The term "touch typing" is not a generic term for typing at any particular speed, or for typing with or without looking at the keys. It refers to a specific typing technique in which specific fingers are used for specific keys. Referring to the term correctly is not pedantry or elitism. I don't think anyone is arguing that another technique is inferior, or that it is in any way not typing, only that it is, in fact, different from the specific typing technique referred to as "touch typing".
In a similar vein, a self-taught fighter could potentially be more skilled than one with some training in Taekwondo. That doesn't mean that the self-taught fighter is using Taekwondo, and pointing out that difference is not "pedantic at best"; it's simply correct.
it is generic
it is clearly descriptive
find a better term to call it
We all voted on it, did you miss election day?
Language doesn't work like that. In professional and educational contexts? Yeah, it'll likely refer to a specific technique. But in general? Absolutely not. I'm calling it pedantic because the technique is just that - a technique. I'm not claiming that it has anything to do with skill, WPM, or accuracy, just that they're the same in those regards. On that point, your analogy doesn't really work for me, since we have very different views on the topic. You think touch typing is only a specific technique, whereas I think it has a less restrictive definition, certainly in everyday use. To use the same analogy, for me it's like you're saying only it's only Taekwondo if it's a specific style of Taekwondo.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're coming upon others who agree with my assertion that the term "touch typing" refers to a specific technique for typing, and using the term to refer to that specific technique, and your response is to call them pedantic because you think the term should be defined more broadly than they (or I) understand it to be defined. Is that correct?
As for the issue you point out with my analogy, I think one of us is confused, and I'm not attempting to imply that I know which one. I used the analogy because touch typing is a specific technique for typing, just as Taekwondo is a specific type of martial arts. A self-taught fighter would be analogous to a self-taught typist. If you believe the term "touch typing" absolutely cannot refer to a specific typing technique, then I would ask for the term you believe is correct to refer to that specific technique to which the rest of us are referring. I'm fine with using a different term to refer to the technique to which I am attempting to refer, but "touch typing" is the only one I know. If you know another, please provide it, and I'll use that.
I'm not the one who started this discussion on what touch typing means, I've just given my view on it. Perhaps I could've phrased it more softly, but I won't deny it's what I think. And again, I agree with your assertion, but only when specificity is actually required. Otherwise, if you're going to claim, outside of those contexts, that touch typing only refers to a specific technique, then yes, I think you are being pedantic.
EDIT: Since I replied to your initial comment, I'll update this one too. There definitely is some confusion with regard to your analogy. The point I was trying to make is that while Taekwondo is a type of martial art, it has different styles. From my point of view, you think only a specific style meets the definition of Taekwondo, and all others are something else entirely. If I were to choose a different name, I'd say something like 10-finger, or the home row technique. But I'm not going to try and force you to use any term other than what you want to use. I just have my own opinion on when it's appropriate to be strict and precise in its definition.
The point is that I and others are clearly attempting to refer to a specific technique, even if we're doing so using a term with which you disagree. If you dislike us using the term we're using, then please provide an alternate term that we can use to refer to the specific technique. Otherwise, how are we to discuss said specific technique without giving offense?
I edited my reply after I saw your edit.
LOL
Your typing is inferior.
How does that make you feel?
It makes me feel sorry for your apparent idiocy.
You seem a little insecure about it.
My man, I'm not insecure at all. Why would I be? I don't think one technique is any better, or worse, than another, and I'm happy enough with my typing ability. What I don't like, is people being childish and resorting to mockery when people are trying to have a discussion.
You just seem unreasonably vociferous about this particular "discussion".
So some people think typing is a special learned skill. Who cares? You aparently.
It's a topic I have a lot of interest in, so of course I'm going to discuss it if the opportunity presents itself, especially if I disagree with what's been said. If you yourself don't care about the discussion, why did you bother joining it? And I've tried being civil, can you say the same about your childish message?
I dont think thats necessarily true.
If you type enough you will certainly be able to do so without looking, but its surely undeniable that someone who has practiced a specific technique will be faster, and more accurate, particularly with punctuation and special characters.
No, they won't. The specific technique is just a standardised way of educating people. It isn't inherently better than a technique that an individual has developed on their own. Might the specific technique be more efficient in terms of movement? Perhaps. But if someone has found a technique that works for them, it might also be what's most efficient for them. But in terms of speed and accuracy? They're the same.
I learnt to "type" when I was at school, programming a Commodore Vic-20. I thought I was quite fast, but what I had really learnt was just the key combos for common words. It's what most people who have never learnt properly before do, and it's called "point and poke". You don't realise the extra effort you're putting in, and the mistakes you're making (overuse of the backspace key) and so on.
When I went to college at 16 (UK) to study computer science, we had the option of learning touch typing. We all thought we were pretty good at typing, but afterwards, we'd all doubled our typing speed (or more) and increased our accuracy by 10x. We learnt on proper electric golfball typewriters, and as we got better, we all noticed that code entry got a lot faster. The thing that is affected most, though, is typing up from notes or printed copy - because you don't have to keep looking away from the source, back to the keyboard and screen, you can be much quicker. Also, typing your thoughts is much faster as you are not having to split your attention between the thoughts and the keyboard - what you think just appears on the screen without having to spend mental effort on typing.
I feel like we're talking about two different things. Touch typing, regardless of the technique used, only implies looking away from the keyboard. If you've got the muscle memory, and instinctively know where keys are, whether that's through technique or reinforced familarity, you can look wherever you want.
Yeah, you and all the people you’re responding to are talking about different things.
They’re talking about touch typing, a noun with a specific definition and meaning referring to a technique, instructional method and practice and you’re talking about what you think words should mean.
34 year old american. Same. I learned to type by commenting on reddit.
Same age, but I had typing classes from grade 4. Oddly enough, I grew up in small town Canada, so kinda surprising lol.
I used to go to this secondary school where there were four classes (4x~35 students) each year: two for economics, one for marketing and one for IT. I chose the IT one. They taught basic typing for all four, but speed typing was only required in three. Guess where it wasn't...
Seemed to become a rarer skill in the late 80s early 90s. It’s now at the point where I’m surprised if a co-op or younger coworker knows how to touch type. So strange with how “everything is computer” for so many jobs. How it is not a prerequisite for computer science courses blows my mind. I don’t think I could manage it.
I had a typing class in early high school on a regular old typewriter. We had computers, but not enough for a whole class to learn typing.
We had computers and the typing software made a beep with the PC speaker each time you made a mistake. The beeping summoned the evil teacher to torture you even more, e g. by covering hands and keyboard with a box.
Later in high school when we got computers, someone discovered that if you shuffle your feet on the carpet to build up static then touched the lock (remember when computers came with a set of keys?!) the computer would reset.
"It's not my fault Miss, the computer has reset! Can you help?". (This particular teacher was young, attractive, and sometimes didn't wear a bra).
In the early 90s, we had little keyboard trainers with a row of LED lines at the top (like calculator screen) that would be carted into the classroom and we'd do lessons as a class.
They're speed lines, they make you type faster.
Even if they would teach it, people are forgetting so much of what they learned at school.
One of my friends from High School posted that meme about how school didn't prepare him properly for life, because he doesn't know how to do taxes, but at least he knows that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
I had to comment: "I sat next to you in civics class, where we literally filled out fake tax forms to prepare us for doing taxes.".
It's ridiculous.
I can't forget it. The evil teacher put a box over our hands and keyboard so we couldn't see our fingers. The typing software made a beep every time we made a mistake and summoned the teacher. The exams where timed and every mistake you made in the final copy (you basically had to copy a paper document) cost you a grade.
I still fuck up sometimes today due to sometimes using keyboards with US, DE or Apple layouts but in general I'm quite fast and never need to look at my hands.
I hated software like this. It caused me to make two errors immediately: knowing I missed the correct key and then immediately back spacing, causing the second error.
I remember we did it. Though not that strictly. Just some program and eventually got a grade for it based on usually grading system. I would have never passed so strict requirements, well i never have passed so strict requirements anyway.
Our native language teacher had similar strict requirements. I didn't pass a single exam that year, regardless of how many times i tried or for how long i studied.
So I'm completely with you, screw that type of teachers. Making mistakes is human.
I hated that box. It was red and we'd just slump down in our chairs to look under it.
The thing that really helped my touch typing was playing MUDS: nothing like a textual goblin attacking you to encourage you to quickly type "kill goblin".
I took typing in high school decades ago and it was probably the most useful thing I ever learned there
Having a booth for a PC game at conventions used to be difficult because people were not familiar with keyboard and mouse controls. If you weren't prepared for this you basically had to quickly add controller support somehow and send someone from your team to the next electric store and to buy a bunch of controllers.
Nowadays, though? Game convention visitors these days barely know how to hold a controller. They keep poking at the screens, hoping something happens. It's a frustrating experience for indie devs sometimes.
So yeah I'm not surprised when people look at keyboards like they're some kind of ancient slate.
Reminds me of the video game reviewer who couldn't get past the Cuphead tutorial.
Who the fuck are these people??
To make it really easy to know where U and H are, because you never want to be unable to type uhhhhh without looking at the keyboard
This comment has been brought to you by Dvorak, it would be great if it were more supported
Why would we need dvorak?
I found it to resolve the problem of my wrists hurting when I type too much.
But the lack of support is basically that for some reason games tend to use it as my keyboard layout (it's my default) even when I switch to qwerty before starting it up, forcing me to respec the controls. Still worth not being in pain after typing up something, and definitely lower priority than left handed controls, but it is a minor annoyance.
Fyi, typing games are weirdly making a comeback on steam and I'm here for it
I played Typing of the Dead a month ago after not playing it since I was a kid. Holds up. I love typing games.
A lot of schools don't because there isn't a standardized program for teaching it. I know we used a very tough typing game for when we were taught. Not sure if I was slower on the uptake but I worked real hard to get good at touch typing.
As Mavis Beacon gently weeps...
I only learned a few years ago, she was not a real person. Just an actress that was used to create a persona. It did help me type tho.
If the dishonesty bothers you, I recommend a more realistic tutor for learning to type: Typing of the Dead.
Turning in her fictional grave.
Carriage returns from the grave.
The bumps exist so you can have an existential doubt of when will they wear out. Apparently my current keyboard was a better choice than I thought at first.
Why would then wearing out be so terrible?
theyre basically required for touch typing (without looking at the keyboard)
They aren't required at all for touch typing, they are just convenient.
Source:i touch type over 100wpm and forgot they existed
I don't look at the keyboard. I don't do home row either, though. I just put my hands on the table and magically know where the keys are.
The English Wikipedia:
Although the phrase refers to typing without using the sense of sight to find the keys—specifically, a touch typist will know their location on the keyboard through muscle memory—the term is often used to refer to a specific form of touch typing that involves placing the eight fingers in a horizontal row along the middle of the keyboard (the home row) and having them reach for specific other keys. (Under this usage, typists who do not look at the keyboard but do not use home row either are referred to as hybrid typists.) Both two-handed touch typing and one-handed touch typing are possible.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you break both your hands at the same time? Sounds painful and difficult.
I'm in my mid-20s, and I taught myself to type using only my index and middle fingers (plus thumb for space bar). Had about 80 wpm, but made quite a few errors.
A few years ago, I swapped to Colemak and took that opportunity to finally learn to touch-type. Now I'm at 95 wpm with much better accuracy, and I don't need to look anymore. Feels way more comfortable to type too.
On mobile, I still use QWERTY and type with my thumbs. I can do that reasonably well with my eyes closed, considering the complete lack of tactile feedback.
Turner orr ep3ll chk3cker and typed this sentence with my eyrs floser. ("Turned off spell checker and typed this sentence with my eyes closed.")
Dude you're not hitting 80 WPM with pokey-poke
I worked with a dude that insisted his speed was insane and when we tested him and took errors into account, the actual WPM was more like 15.
E: anybody who doubts this, please recall that a word is five character average, so 80 words per minute, including shift, capitals, punctuation, numerals, means this person is hitting over 400+ Keys a minute... 7 Keys a second. Ain't going to happen with two fingers lmao... You can put your fingers on a desk, no keyboard, and you wouldn't be able to strike the desk 400+ times a minute with your fingertips. Pure delusion.
Idk exactly how the wpm calculation worked or if/how it accounted for errors. I just used those typing speed test websites, but I don't remember which. I know it would've been all lowercase, no numbers, and no punctuation, in a short, 30-60s burst. So I'm sure if you tested me under stricter conditions, my real speed would've been much lower.
And I used both my hands, so 4 fingers, making it less than 2 presses per finger per second which seems reasonable.
For my 95wpm, I tested my speed using the same conditions on monkeytype. But I did it again just now (30s, capitalization, punctuation, numbers) and got 73. I never bothered to learning numbers or symbols. Sorry, didn't mean to mislead lol.
It's at the upper end of what is physically possible, but it is possible. It would look pretty weird watching someone do it, I imagine. This is basically what high end Starcraft players are doing, except with a mouse added in.
StarCraft players have tons of different input styles, but most of them use almost every single finger. They're also not typing words, they're spamming the keyboard equivalent of arpeggios.
It's not possible, period.
Your index finger isn't what you use to point?
Maybe his Index is on the left hand and his pointer on the right
👨🍳🤌🫴
Mb, pointer and middle finger. I've corrected it.
No need for a correction. I was genuinely curious.
Lmao yhat was a pretty good attempt to be fair.
Whoa, only one error
80 wpm with index fingers is pure fantasy. At least you admitted it was "with errors".
I can use my big toe to type 10,000 wpm with errors by holding the key down.
As my 13yo would say, "why? I can just voice to text"
For when you need to do an assignment due the next day but your roommate keeps yelling at you to shut the fuck up already because they are trying to sleep while you slowly dictate the introduction to your 5 page essay, which then gets you kicked out of your class because you missed removing a few of the "SHUT THE FUCK UP!"s that your voice to text helpfully added for you.
I need a new keyboard. Those little nubs are worn off mine and I'm constantly putting my fingers on the wrong keys unless I keep looking down at it.
Put a small dot of clear nail polish or glue on the key to recreate the bump.
Hot glue applied via toothpick, problem solved.
Tried clear nail polish, now it's well dry and works like a dream!
Something tells me that even if they taught typing, whoever's asking that question wouldn't have paid attention in that class anyway.
... or they know perfectly well and this is just another shitty clickbait post to generate engagement.
I was never told, but I always assumed it was to orient yourself without looking, and that's where the index fingers go when hands are resting on the keyboard.
Smart cookie, you assumed correctly! :)
It was a hard habit to form if you were taught that way, but it does wonders once you learn it.
Yes that's what they're for
Why learn typing? Just let the Ai do it! Pfft!
/s
That's the nipples. You rub em and the keyboards like 'hey fj r over here!'
Tbf, I very rarely type with perfect form like that. Maybe for short bursts when I'm doing an assignment but in like every other case I keep my right hand on the mouse and do any hot keys with just my left hand. Granted thats mainly a gaming thing but also in like GIMP or blender
Blender's workflow of "One hand never leaves the mouse" is brilliantly underrated. They've made the UI more newbie accessible but I always encourage new folks to learn the hotkeys from the start, because you can get SO FAST!!
I tried learning how to type properly but my hand joints have always been shitty so I do what I can. I also grew up PC gaming and that influenced how I type. My boss asked me if I learned to type after I started gaming and I was like "yeah." And he said, "I can tell"
"Home row?"
Whatever, wasd and mouse is my home row.
Thumb on the spacebar and left pinky pulling double duty between CTRL and Shift! :p
The last keyboard I built, I went with blank keycaps to force myself to learn to fully use the keyboard without looking.
I also can't spell
Or they are really old. I have an old PS2 keyboard that doesn't have them.
They were a feature on typewriter keyboards back before personal computers were even a thing, so I think it's probably just that Sony didn't bother to put them on that specific keyboard.
PS/2 was the standard connection type for mice and keyboards for a pretty long time.
maybe yours were shaped differently compared to the other keys.
You know the episode of Bobs Burgers where Tina takes a typing class and does the hunt and peck but she can do it faster than the teacher can using the home row? It me.
Also if you want to type fast a keyboard layout that wasn't chosen based on its ability to prevent mechanical jams by slowing the typist is probably the way to go. eg Dvorac
FYI there are much better layouts than even Dvorak.
During Covid a ton of work was done on key layouts. Whole new statistical analysis tools were written from scratch. If you are looking for a new key layout I would focus on post Covid ones.
Personally I like Graphite, Gallium, and Engrammer.
https://github.com/rdavison/graphite-layout
Thank you these are fully awesome! I had no idea there had been a quiet layout enlightenment was underway.
Tons of fun once you get past the first week of misery in switching. Full support here. :)
I run a small variant of Arno's engram on my Kyria v3 and I can heartily recommend it. After a few weeks adjustment period this feels way more natural to type on
I personally use Engrammer. This being said I know the symbol locations can be a shock, thus the other recommendations too. :)
That's the main adjustment I made actually, I rearranged all the symbols to be more to my liking ^^
Dvorak or colemak
I was required to take typing classes in middle school, and the teach put cardboard over our hands
That must've been really uncomfortable with the cardboard bouncing up & down on your knuckles while you're typing 🤔
sad Mavis Beacon sounds
It's for locating your index fingers without looking when you do ten-finger typing.
I remember learning this about 40 years ago on a fully mechanical typewriter in school...
Me, haha
As a gamer I always wanted one of these on the W.
searches
These are awesome! Thanks for letting me know about them.
Cheap clear nail polish.
I taught myself a personal typing style, because I found touch typing to be awkward, unpleasant and quite frankly shitty to follow.
So yeah, not okay with the implications that not knowing those lines means not knowing how to type.
It's not about not knowing how to type it's about not being /taught/ to type. Touch typing and the home row or whatever is what is formally taught.
I also don’t formally touch type but it’s just a meme.
Whether you touch type per the formal method or not, if you don't know what the lines are for, ot means you weren't taught (or weren't paying attention) typing.
I was taught it in school in typing class, so the meme is accurate, but could be rephrased to something like: What do you mean you don't know that the lines are for? Are they not teaching that in school anymore?
They're not just lines, they're bumps. Haptic feedback as the kids say.
Shifting of focus (eyes to keyboard then back to screen) can slow you down a lot. With computers I just stare at the keyboard and type. Problem with this is when something happens on the screen and the cursor is no longer where I think it is.
What I hate is the forced use of the mouse. Either make it all mouse or all keyboard navigable. In fact, with people having to use screen readers, all forms need to be keyboard navigable.
I never learned to type. I have my own inefficient style
I had a PC/Typing class in school. I never ended up using it. I basically learned the way I type from playing WoW and other online games with text chats. I mostly use my left hand for typing and occasionally use my right for some keys briefly.
I’m sure if I took a typing speed test I wouldn’t be as fast as someone using the home keys, but it’s worked well enough for me.
I grew up in an era of sneaking into the living room to use the family desktop in the middle of the night to talk to random strangers in yahoo chat rooms.
I also learned how to type with just my left hand....
I learnt to use these... Completely without instruction. I move my hands as I type and alternate my fingers by default.
I've tried touch typing tutorials, where I'm meant to keep my fingers within a 'zone', however it was causing my hands to cramp once I reached 90 WPM.
These little indicators are lovely for touch typing though, even if I'm not doing it 'properly'. No repetitive strain injury in my weird way of typing without looking though!
Same here. The lines let me know where my fingers are in relation to the keyboard. Mavis Beacon would scream if she saw how I type, but I can do it at around 90wpm without looking.
You can avoid pain with the proper layout though, try workman or dvorak
I had to take "keyboarding" my freshman year of high school ( mid 90s), they had an option to opt out if you could type something like 30 words a minute, which I could, from all my messing around on my home PC.
I will say though, I have long fingers and it's extremely uncomfortable to type in the "proper" position using 8 fingers across the rows. I ended up making my own hybrid 6 finger system that has served me very well to this day, typically I can average around 50 WPM this way.
Anyways, bypassing keyboarding allowed me to take Basic Programming it its place, and each year after our awesome teacher created a new programming class for us, Pascal, C++, Visual Basic and Java by the time we graduated.
I learned touch typing as a result of MSN messenger, in the dark, with a keyboard that would slide under the desk. I think phone contracts have resulted in a lot of people younger than me not being able to touch type.
My cousin types far faster than me, and he credits Typing of the Dead for that skill.
Yeah I learned how to type in high school in the year 1990. Since the existence of cell phones I have hardly touched a keyboard, maybe once a year when I pull out my laptop to do my taxes. But I was amazed when I learned how to type and amazed how quickly I became a high-speed touch typist and it is a thrill to me that it's a skill I have because it was a little bit hard to learn at first but so proud that I got it and it feels like magic to be a touch typist!
"They don't teach typing anymore"... for what, a job in the typing pool?? 😅
People still do data entry. Mostly in India, but it still happens.
I always saw it as "speed-braille".
It's so you know if the keyboard is upside down or not.
Those are for people who can type without looking ;)
It’s how I quit vi
I'm in my 50s. I don't know anyone who has ever been taught to type.
30's, and we definately had typing lessons and practice in Information Technology classes.
30s and me, my parents, and grandparents all were taught to touch type in school
In the warm computer labs that smelled of burning dust and ozone
Maybe people older than me had typing classes and people younger had IT classes then - my age group didn't have anything like that.
I’m 52 and took a semester of typing in high school.
/r/teachers is a horror show.
Are questions memes now?