Do people realize you can go out and vote while recognizing the system is rigged? Like what do you lose from casting a vote?
Hours of your time in areas where voter suppression is in full swing.
That is where it is very worth the time!
My state expanded mail-in voting during the pandemic and it’s so nice to just fill out a ballot at home. The Republicans have been fighting against it and now I have to include a color photocopy of my ID with it due to their fuckery.
I'm probably not going to trust a mail in ballot this year.
Of course there's also danger if only magats use mail in voting, so there's a balance.
Everywhere I lived that had mail in voting had local ballot drop boxes and would update your ballot status the same day. You would get an email if it was accepted or not which was pretty cool. But I also haven’t lived in those crappy vOtEr iD 4 iTeGrItY states
So you're against tegridy, ey?
Man i think we all could use a little tegridy.
My state implemented mail in during the pandemic, then yanked it away and made mail in even more difficult than before in time for the '22 election
Yeah they really do make the effort to ensure you don't vote don't they? I wonder why?
Bring headphones and water
Hmmm... I bet I could build a little battery operated chair with an umbrella, cooler, and fan... Like a small tailgating rig that inches forward on its own.
Then I could set up outside the poling place and rent them to people.
We had a district in Houston with a seven hour long voting line. The last person to vote was in the news, even, because of how much we laud voting for voting's sake.
Our AG, Ken Paxton, seized on the story and had the guy in the story prosecuted for election fraud.
Yeah your soon-to-be Senator is a real peach.
So nothing lose if it is worth it
I cant be smug on the internet.
I believe in you
a feeling of superiority born from inaction and excuses is very powerful feeling.
why exercise/eat right? you will die anyway, etc.
I'm very smug about how the people who chose not to vote are the reason for this administration.
I vote to show it doesn’t help and I haven’t been proven wrong.
But it doesn't hurt is my point
True, and my upside is being right so I keep voting.
If things change I might stop
If your vote starts making a difference you might stop voting?
Yeah it’ll take the fun out of it
Aight go off, monarch (idk your gender)
Haha same, if it worked then why do the parties I vote on always lose!?
Literally the only person who I voted for in a primary who won the general election was fucking Fetterman.
'Voting is so dumb. I cast a vote and the thing I wanted to happen didn't happen, that proves it does nothing! "
That's quite a take.
But what if the thing I want never happens?
hey hey hey...
you're only allowed to engage in ONE side of this argument..
And we wonder why people hate politics…
I just don't know what to do with the ABWD/ Blue MAGA/ Thirdway/ "Vote harder-er" crowd. Like, at no point are you allowed to recognize the fact that the system of elections and reforms is not-functioning: that voting has no practical impact on outcomes in US Democracy.
And there answer is always just some lazy version of pascals wager, but it totally fails to account for the other half of the equation, which is that there absolutely are negative consequences to giving your consent for nothing in return.
It might not and you can choose to be defeatist about that but I'd rather keep trying, both by voting and by organizing within my community
If I had hope it would have been destroyed already.
Defeatism is the only thing that keeps me voting. (And my mom.)
Then you must vote every day!
I like this idea. I’ll scan my blank ballot and fill one out every day until it starts working.
It's to most Lemmy ahh take imaginable.
"WAHH I'm a big smart special snowflake, why isn't my vote the only one that matters"
If it makes you feel better he's at least 3% better the Dr. Oz would have been. What a fucked timeline.
task failed successfully
So voting could only matter if yours is the deciding vote. Makes perfect sense.
Voting only matters if the guy I want wins. And even then only a little.
You realize that is terrible logic, right? That's literally just saying you should never have tried to do anything good unless it worked out the way you wanted in the end.
Our government is built on terrible logic. I’m just trying to adapt to it.
"Hey they were stupid first!"
They’re still stupid and it’s their stupid system with stupid rules I have to deal with.
If they stop being stupid I won’t have to be stupid.
I think your problem is you still take this clown show seriously.
If only it were only casting the vote. But people chose to do canvasing, helping in electoral campaigns and arguing online that's actually taking away the energy.
Vote, if you want. Pray, if you want. Curse capitalists, if you want. But don't expect it to change anything.
Voting doesn't have to include putting all your faith in the system is my point.
I'm not against it if you don't have faith in the system. I'm against the propaganda.
Totally fair! I'm not pretending voting works in a fascist system, but the numbers are more likely to make change at the lower levels of government, and there are many reasons (even statistics) that voting has a net positive effect rather than a net negative, even if the government will be corrupt either way.
they tricked me into tacitly supporting Fetterman because the other option was Dr. Oz and now they're both massively influential in government
whenever i see someone wearing americana, i assume they are a dangerous racist
I thought Fetterman was the leftist Candidate. Isn't that why Hassan, Vaush, and the rest of the lefty boys all supported him?
Bonus: Fetterman was important evidence that brain damage results in conservatism.
Edit: Yeah if you just google like Hassan supporting Fetterman it's just littered with clips. He was the lefty candidate. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zr0O0eiIhEE
unless you are going to go put a stake through Lurch's heart, please shut the fuck up with your youtube drama
fucking keyboard warriors fuck off
Why is the guy covered in fascist iconography the good puppy here?
Because liberals think they can be pro-empire and still antifascist
We’re obligated to use every tool at our disposal in the fight. No one tool will fix everything.
Voting is one of our many tools
We’re obligated to use every tool at our disposal in the fight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_boycott
Voting is one of our many tools
You need someone to vote for.
You need someone to vote for.
Easy. I will vote for the person who will do the least harm to my country as it is a fact that someone will be elected.
vote for the person who will do the least harm
Republicans say they're doing this every election cycle.
Democrats say they're doing this every election cycle.
It does not appear to be a working strategy, when your "least harm" candidates are all dictated by their advertising budgets and national media relationships
Who would you vote for in an election between Mussolini and Franco? Because that is where your country is headed
ah yes, because there are only two candidates on every ballot.
There are two candidates with any realistic chance of winning. Third party won't work in the current system
There are plenty of things besides the president on ballots though. In fact, I would argue those are even more impactful to your life than any of the federal candidates.
Don't tell this to the "pro-voting" crowd cause they despise anyone who looks outside the uniparty.
I was talking about all the state and local candidates on elections, not to mention judges and other things. Everyone should vote. It's the bare minimum. Not to mention the primaries.
Election boycotts require a mass movement to work, not just general disenfranchisement and non participation. Catalonia comes to mind, as controversial as that was by the "just vote" crowd when the referendums were making headlines. I can't think of many places in the US where that sort of coordinated non-participation is even floated as an idea in the public consciousness. If you have any examples I'd be interested to hear though
Election boycotts require a mass movement to work
Absolutely. And that's what we saw during the '24 primary in Michigan. Tens of thousands of spoiled ballots from residents disgusted with the Gaza Genocide.
Voting is one of our many tools
It's only a tool if there's a non-fascist candidate available. Name one such person in the US.
"All candidates are fascist." - Smooth Brain
I never said they are. It was more of a clarification that voting isn't always a tool, but usually.
As for specific candidates - highly depends on the country. There's countries like USA, North Korea or Eritrea, where there isn't a single non-sociopathic soul in politics, effectively making elections pointless.
And there's other countries, where most candidates are horrible, but a handful of somewhat decent ones also exist, so at the very least there are options. We can argue about their viability, but them existing is in itself a step up.
You? are are you not in the USA?
If not, then your opinion is irrelevant, no?
this is why your country will not learn from this experience, to many of you are still far to proud.
I've never been to the USA, and I thank God every day for that.
Why though? Are we only allowed to have opinions about the countries we currently live in?
Well, my point stands regardless of country. If all the parties and their candidates are fascists - voting is pretty much pointless.
Luckily, that's usually not the case in most countries, so voting may have some sort of impact. Even if the party you vote for only gets 3% of votes.
You're apparently getting downvoted for not being an American but
As an American (or my preference, a future citizen of the New California Republic), I agree with you when it comes to federal-level and upper-state-level politics. Local politics can have actual human candidates, but it's only fascist reptiles higher up - yes, even Bernie, who is a liberal Zionist.
Ilhan Omar is maybe the only exception.
I find many anarchists are against electoralism but still vote because they recognize it's easy and can make a tiny difference. They just focue their efforts on direct action rather than electoral politics. The ones who say "don't vote" are idiots
Anarchism isn't strictly about being against electoralism. It's more about the justification of power.
If a hierarchical system can't morally justify why some should command and others should obey then it should be dismantled.
There are valid reasons to vote and there are valid reasons not to vote.
As an example: many indigenous people living on land the US claims to own were made certain promises by the US government. These promises were made to their people as a nation, not to them as individuals. By accepting US citizenship and voting in US elections, they would be tacitly legitimizing the occupation of their land and also surrendering any claim to the land they were promised. In fact, the US government often attempted to force citizenship upon indigenous people whether they wanted it or not.
As a white person, I suppose I may as well vote, but voting is part of the corrupt imperialist system and therefore part of the problem, and I won't disparage anyone who has a conviction against participating.
That's a good point, although I would still argue that not voting in that case is a useful form of resistance. Like have governments ever felt threatened by nonvoters? Especially the US?
Yeah, but how do you feel about people who don't care about any of that? is that a valid reason to vote?
Voting doesn't hurt anything but saying its gonna solve all this is wishful thinking.
Of course liberals portray themselves as the nationalist/fascist.
Libs honestly believe that playing the nationalists makes them look like the good guys.
Seeing how they justify war crimes when they're in office, they probably do.
Damn commie liberal pinkos!
Politicians aren't your friends. Voting is your choice to choose your adversary.
Man so many people want to change the world and won't do a single thing to actually do anything huh?
yeah, because day-dreaming is easy and never fails. changing things, is hard, and fails often.
Yep. People want their bespoke utopiae, and don't want to do any little thing to push society in that direction. They want it to magically appear.
Voting is useful. But it is not enough.
voting is fine, but your vote can't change how other people vote. this is where a lot of folks seem to throw up their hands, like if they don't win, there was no point.
and it can change who is on the ballot... if you vote in the primaries. which were just yesterday... and how many people voted in those? 22% in CA, compared to 62% who voted in 2024 general.
the problem with voting, and in life in general, is most folks want everyone else to do the work for them, and then they want to complain about the result not being what they wanted.... while they never participated. and if you call them out, they call you a jerk or make excuses.
You don't have to vote in every election, sure, but there is a major difference between being aware/active and not trying at all.
I voted.
Was pretty easy. I started by removing all Republicans from consideration. Then I used the internet to do some looking into the remaining candidates and made my selections. Remember to do a little extra research on anyone listed as "independent" or "no party" as they might be wolves in sheep's clothing. I found two Republicans who ran as not Republican to try to get more votes.
Took me roughly an hour and there were a lot of positions/candidates on this ballot.
Not that hard, folks.
I voted too!
Anti-incumbent for the most part, and voted for a lot of third party and independent candidates locally.
If your apathy was so damn important it would have accomplished something, ANYTHING by now…
Meanwhile other people keep taking advantage of said apathy every fucking day while you claim arrogance and apathy every day you shitty moron…
You’re just lying to my face about how much you love others using you…
other people keep taking advantage of said apathy
Screaming "vote harder" at all the folks getting dragged into ICE detention centers
The system is rigged. But sometimes they don't rig it hard enough and usually harm reduction is possible, so it's worth voting anyways. This post is a strawman.
This post is a very realistic reflection of a sentiment I see several times a week
There is bias in what you routinely see. What one person says cannot be taken as an entire group's opinion.
This is a meme with photoshopped dogs. Not an academic study
I didn't say it was an academic study. And regardless of the form there is still a message here.
Let's take a breath and analyze the message. The community we are in is me_irl. Someone experienced a thing and made a meme of it.
Most click, go "hahaha, I've experienced that, Upvote"
You decided to say this was a strawman.
I said nah I've experienced it.
Then you decided to go off about biases, when this community is definitely about going "haha I've experienced that"
And yet you are responding to it seriously.
Is stating I've experienced what the meme is saying all that serious?
The people enjoying this meme aren't interested in finding the reasonable synthesis of electoralism vs. anti-electoralism, they just want to dunk on anti-electoralists on the left to make them feel good about having the "correct" opinion.
Both sides of the electoralism argument have good points. It is true that voting can meaningfully reduce the harm caused by our corrupt institutions. It is also true that the system has been rigged in such a way as to make certain radical transformations of society impossible by electoral means. The synthesis of these two perspectives is that those whose goal is to stop the harm caused by our corrupt institutions and radically transform society should engage in both electoralism and direct action.
they just want to dunk on anti-electoralists on the left to make them feel good about having the “correct” opinion.
And that's fine, right up until the point where that dunk is directed towards anarchists, as per the shirt with the anarchist A.
The synthesis of these two perspectives is that those whose goal is to stop the harm caused by our corrupt institutions and radically transform society should engage in both electoralism and direct action.
I fully agree with you here.
I agree the meme flanderizes anarchists. Oddly enough it also flanderizes electoralists as patriotic to the point of absurdity, and it's strange that a liberal would want to portray themselves that way.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. Liberals are fine with the warcrimes, fine with all the evils of the empire and of capitalism until it starts to come home to roost.
It is also true that the system has been rigged in such a way as to make certain radical transformations of society impossible by electoral means.
Radical transformations of society are difficult. Usually very difficult for many reasons, but the governmental structure allows for it. It is by design not impossible.
I didn't say radical transformations are impossible, I said they are impossible to do through electoral means alone. It is a naive view that our democratic processes and institutions are the dominant power in society, such that the people can - by simply electing someone or multiple someones to the right office(s) - radically transform the way that society is structured. Doing so requires that powerful institutions (most of which are entirely undemocratic) are either dissolved or forced to capitulate to the will of the people, which cannot be done without a critical mass of people utilizing whatever leverage they have to make it happen.
Radical transformations that have already occurred in American society (abolition of slavery, civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights, etc.) were only made possible by people acting of their own accord outside of electoral politics before the establishment - in order to preserve itself against an existential threat - conceded and allowed these changes to be made electorally. Any candidate promising any kind of radical transformation has every possible tactic used against them to ensure they do not succeed - up to and including assassinations - and this kind of establishment power can only be (and only ever has been) countered by a mass movement that is willing to engage in direct action.
Radical transformations that have already occurred in American society (abolition of slavery, civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights, etc.) were only made possible by people acting of their own accord outside of electoral politics
You mean all changes were made by “the people” before any legislative change? And so whatever governmental changes were made were effectively moot, or mere window dressing?
Any candidate promising any kind of radical transformation has every possible tactic used against them to ensure they do not succeed - up to and including assassinations - and this kind of establishment power can only be (and only ever has been) countered by a mass movement that is willing to engage in direct action.
Well I don’t think you’re wrong, but I don’t think it works like that either. It’s certainly an arguable take. But I feel like it’s both an old take and a limited one. I could be wrong.
Looks like you may have missed the massive wave of russian bots "leftists" that couldn't get enough of shitting on Harris, democrats, liberals, democracy, or any other aspect of the political landscape other than Jill Stein and the lunatic assertion that third parties could win presidential races. Also that the means of production would soon be seized by the workers, probably any day now.
See elsewhere in this thread for some similar examples.
voting is not harm reduction
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It depends on the candidates.
2024-Now disagrees with you.
The Hungarian flag might be a better choice here instead of the US flag.
Have fun voting for the people they pre-select for you. https://calmatters.org/politics/2026/03/green-party-candidate-governor/
To anyone who doesn't read the link, they gave the most likely candidate to actually beat the corporate-owned Democrats 10 minutes to support updated paperwork, and disqualified him when he didn't respond within 10 minutes.
Now Bacerra is virtually guaranteed to be governor. He is, to no one's surprise, owned by corporations. He allegedly said "what Israel did is not within international norms and it should not be part of the community of nations", but being a corporate-owned Democrat, I'd be surprised if he actually does... anything at all to facilitate Pissrael's expulsion from civilization.
Happy Votey Day!!
They try hard to stop people from the groups they know don't support them, because that makes the cost of fraud more, as the competition will have an easier time doing it themselves.
yup, only reason they do it is because its a bigger pain in the ass later to rewrite for the history books if they don't manage decent.
anyone feel that the sub late stage capitalism on reddit and maybe even lemmy are republican controlled pysops to influence left people to act more anti democrat
It’s hilarious to me that you think it’s more likely there’s some psyop conspiracy instead of the DNC just having really shit policy.
people would rather invent a magical villain than admit they fucked up.
Not here to talk about the DNC. Just here to point out that he is partially correct.
The Late Stage Capitalism sub on Lemmy is run by a single mod who spam posts doomer content and regularly deletes comments and bans users who disagree with him.
It is not a community sub. It's a single loser's safe space.
Holy shit this is a stupid take… Oh Yes it’s the dnc with a masterful control… they got you or you’re just so fucking smart you’re too good!
Or you’re too stupid to participate…
I don’t think you read what I wrote correctly because that’s the opposite of what I said.
I might have but honestly is this a matter of the dnc or the average joe mistaking personal action?
The dnc is made of people, how many of them are making the same mistakes?
What mistakes? You’re still talking completely past me. Are you sober?
PSA
The Late Stage Capitalism sub on Lemmy is operated by a single individual who happens to be a giant piece of shit coward who constantly posts doomer content and will delete comments and ban people who disagree with him.
It's a trash sub and doesn't have much to do with Late Stage Capitalism due to it being the designated safe space for this cretin loser who I don't actually think is a psyop, just a low IQ scumbucket doing their work for them.
That's hardly necessary. The DNC has been doing more than enough to justify that all by themselves.
For the Cali governor race, I was actually pretty excited to vote. Then I looked into candidates and literally none of the top 8 candidates could even answer "yes" when asked if they would call what's happening in Gaza a genocide. I know it's not super relevant from the perspective of a state, but it really took the wind out of my sails.
Also the state then proceeded to vote for some millionaires that don't actually give a fuck about us lol! Yay!!!
I love how the same people who say voting is pointless because both sides are bad are the same people who complain about people saying both sides are bad.
karmawhores
Anyone can make a cool-sounding quip. One I've heard a lot is "If voting could change anything, they wouldn't let us do it."
Why is the dog wearing an anarchism T shirt? That it not what anarchism is at all.
you clearly don't own a dog.
Maybe. That is, though, what people who wear anarchism t-shirts are.
I see a lot less trying and a lot more doing....
Inside you there are 2 wolves
Voting exist to give the veneer of legitimacy to oligarchy. All of the systems around voting to make sure the results come out "right" are apart of the same system. If you want to participate in that system, you should have a solid understanding of how it works to undermine the populous and participate in ways that undermine the oligarchy.
For example, rather than registering with whatever party more closely aligns to your ideals, register with whatever party has gerrymandered your district then vote in their primaries for candidates that actually support systemic reform. Similarly, your vote means nothing in almost every district of general elections. Assuming you don't know for certain your in a competitive district, you shouldn't bother voting for a main party candidate. The more votes third party candidates get, the more funding they get and thus the greater opportunity for systemic reform.
The entire system is built to convince you to give up your agency by insisting that you have to choose the lesser of two evils then insisting that you consented to be governed by that evil. Consent cannot involve coercion. Consent requires the ability to say no.
Most nations are governed by an electoral oligarchy. As fa as I know, an Electoral Democracy has never existed.
The Republicans want you to only vote Republican. Democrats are the same. Neither wants you to cast a vote for progressive politics.
Yeah we’re not interested in healthcare, the environment, taxing the rich or any of those things just . . Y’know, Democrat things. Uh, like, mmm tennis?
Things like ratchet effect and gosh darn it these things take time even though the Republicans show no it doesn't.
You prefer the Democrats break all laws and standard protocols too, eh.
Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
I'd like them to not lie about things taking time when they get a trifecta again. As for norms or protocols, that's used as a manipulation tool by bad actors to force opponents to play by the rules while they ignore them.
You don’t think national legislation takes time? Radical national legislation? Hell, 2¢ per-gallon legislation?
Well then you must support an autocrat, just one you like. Because that doesn’t take much time. Look at ICE - an untrained violent mob with 75 billion dollars in their pocket and no oversight is gettin ‘er done!
And norms and protocols are why people don’t [analogy] kick open your door, eat your last remaining piece of pizza and leave. [/analogy]. That’s not a manipulation tool, that’s simple common decency. Sometimes common sense. Without it everything takes even longer.
They could defund ICE immediately, but won't. In fact they have voted for fund it for a long time, as well as police. Thanks for playing "spot the apologist" you're today's latest winner of title APOLOGIST.
They could defund ICE immediately, but won't.
Could they! Explain how.
Thanks for playing "spot the apologist" you're today's latest winner of title APOLOGIST.
Easy, pass a bill that says "All ICE personnel are hearby fired, all assets are to be immediately seized to pend future investigations. All funding is pulled to pay for future investigations and relocation efforts of prisoners back to where they were taken from. All high level personnel are not to leave the country pending investigations." Upon passing the document from congress to president's desk should take all of a day at most. Unless you're going to argue we need to consider the economic ramifications of closing out the Nazi concentration camps so quickly. As well such abhorrent practices should be ended immediately to prevent further harm.
But then I don't know you and you may be okay with the continued rape of children by ICE agents, the barbarism going on in the camps and increasing body count. You seem predisposed to not ending it immediately.
Easy, pass a bill that says
Oohhhh 
Yeah sorry no that's incorrect. You see, there's this constraint we're facing called "losing every branch of government" which means no bills that we want are going to be passed. Some bills will have bits and pieces we need, we can have those, but something like you're suggesting is not going to happen. Sorry. But don't worry you'll receive a link to the Wikipedia article on How Anything At All Fucking Works, plus a copy of the home game to play on your way out.
But then I don't know you and you may be okay with the continued rape of children by ICE agents, the barbarism going on in the camps and increasing body count.
Well I don't know you either but you seem like you're fine with sexually abusing produce in front of everyone at the grocery store and cruelly murdering children while dressed as a clown for no reason save your own overwhelming evil, an unfortunate schizoaffective disorder, and halitosis.
You seem predisposed to not ending it immediately.
Aaaaaand yer out!
More Apologia. Thanks for making it an easy choice!
What do you think “Apologia” is?
Weird, then why do they never pass legislation that improves any of that stuff? even when they have power?
and then they let the republicans roll it all back, without a fight, when they don't.
almost as if they don't actually give a fuck about any of that... and mostly just care about making themselves rich, and then maybe passing some peanuts/bandaid legislation that is 'progressive'.
meanwhile they write blank checks for war, deporting people, corporate/rich tax breaks, etc. whether or not they are in power...
Kamala was more of the same. So is there entire party platform. Sure, there are a few 'radical' dems who want legit reform, but don't hold much influence or power.
the only place there are legit progressive politicians are at the state or local level.
Weird, then why do they never pass legislation that improves any of that stuff? even when they have power?
The simple, one-sentence reply answer is: when have they had power?
The second sentence reply, which has to be the last because we’re already losing viewers, is that the reasons are legion and a shocking amount of them have litte-to-nothing to do with them being fascist.
and then they let the republicans roll it all back, without a fight, when they don't.
Define a fight. And explain how you’d fight against all three branches of government as an elected official. Akido? Capoeria? Howitzer? The people gonna rise up? Spittle-inflected YouTube channel?
almost as if they don't actually give a fuck about any of that... and mostly just care about making themselves rich, and then maybe passing some peanuts/bandaid legislation that is 'progressive'.
That is how most college freshmen see it, yes.
meanwhile they write blank checks for war, deporting people, corporate/rich tax breaks, etc. whether or not they are in power...
They write blank checks without being in power? Huh. Well, I guess that’s on the people cashing them then, innit.
Kamala was more of the same. So is there entire party platform.
Name three planks of the platform without looking. . . . Two? . . . One? Okay nvm. Go ahead and look it up. Is it the same? Bonus fun, look up the RNC platform.
Sure, there are a few 'radical' dems who want legit reform, but don't hold much influence or power.
? So you’re mad about them too? Geez, you don’t seem fired up or ready to go.
https://www.indigenousaction.org/voting-is-not-harm-reduction-an-indigenous-perspective/thanks to anarchist @PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus for showing it to me
fundamentally misunderstands why people don't vote before all of this, dems also suck and also bleed the country dry and get up to under handed behavior as well without punishing offenders. only dif is that they're not actively attacking people. a cold comfort in reality, i would suggest to those people moving to a dif country if they can tho. nothing for them in the states or any place in a similar situation since even if they win they'll be right back where they started before with a bigger bill.
Fun fact: North Korea and Russia also do voting.
Clearly then there's a chance for things to change in those countries via voting, according to this meme!
You didn't understand the meme.
I ain't voting for fascist lite and that's the only options I get going against full on fascists in my deep red state including in primaries. When an actual progressive runs here then I'll go stand in line for a few hours to at the very least show support even knowing they'll lose in a landslide.
I get how frustrating it is to just have 2 awful options (or in local elections, sometimes no options at all), but you're practically saying:
"I'm willing to sacrifice the rights and lives many of my peers AND keep giving actual fascists more power because the other candidate hasn't promised to destroy capitalism"
At least that's what it sounds like, specially seeing what's been happening since January.
Politicians love "apathy", apathy from the opposition gets them elected; apathy from their voters allows them to do the bare minimum at their jobs, and not have to fulfill their promises.
Think how MAGA cultists got the things they wanted: they went full Karen mode, they got angry, they yelled at their establishment politicians, and they got scary.
And they started to reliably vote. So now their wants and "needs" are being acted upon.
These are the people I have to work with. You think any of them would give a flying fuck if I and others raised hell?
"Oh but you can vote them out and get better options!!"
Yeah man the "better options" are just this. Enjoy this trip back to the 90s with the website design.
People get caught up in Red vs Blue, and since the Conservative Propaganda Machine is the loudest voice in American politics, they've convinced many Dems that their votes are worthless, and they shouldn't bother to vote. Don't listen to your enemy's propaganda, or at least don't believe it. In 18 states, it's not even Rs or Ds, Independents are the biggest voting group.
If all you lazy non-voters out there actually voted, you might unexpectedly flip a few seats. And you don't have to stand in line for a few hours, most (perhaps all) states have early voting or mail in voting. I always do early voting at the library. I haven't stood in line to vote in decades. The last half dozen times I went in, I was the only one there besides the lady checking me in.
Voting is easy, there is no excuse not to. Besides, the endorphin rush I get while walking out after voting is makes it totally worth it. I never feel more powerful, like I literally just kicked Trump in the nuts. Try it.
While I fully agree that everyone should vote, the "voting is easy" bit you're saying is complete BS. Every single early voting day in both the 2016 and 2020 election still involved 2-4 hour lines. Not just for the November election, but even the primaries. In one of the elections, I had to stand in line outside in 90° F heat for 4 hours. A huge number of people in front of me gave up after standing in line for hours, either because they had to pick up their kids or go to work. There was no way around the long lines, otherwise I would have taken the steps to avoid it.
Not only that, but it's hard for a lot of people to register to vote. If you don't have a driver's license, getting an appointment for a photo ID takes MONTHS. To put things into perspective, I have a friend that lives in San Antonio that needed one. We looked, and there was a single location for the entire metropolitan area of over 2.6 million people. The earliest opening for an appointment was 3 months out. Then, after getting an ID, it's still necessary to register to vote at least a month before an election. Don't think for a minute that voter suppression isn't a thing. Just because you live in an area where it's easy to vote and there are no lines doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.
I personally will stand in line for over 6 hours if that's what it takes. But a lot of people simply can't. It frustrates me, but I don't really blame them. A lot of people have multiple jobs and can't afford to miss work or get fired. These methods of suppression are used because they are very effective.
See I'd believe what you said if you actually have a fuck about me voting the way I wanted instead of only caring if I voted for who you wanted. In 2024 I actually saw a candidate worth voting for so I stood in that line to show support. They were a third party candidate tho so I can almost bet you and other "pro-voters" will tell me that was the wrong choice and tell me off which only makes people like me even less likely to vote.
You are making big assumptions and generalizations, with no evidence at all, to rationalize your decision to not vote. Don't blame everybody else, and especially don't blame the system, if you refuse to vote "on principal." The biggest problem with our system is the lack of participation.
I don't care who you vote for. I'm a lifelong Independent, I've voted third party many times in my life. I just think that the best outcome is going to come from EVERYONE voting. It should be legally mandatory, like in Australia.
Who's stopping anyone from voting? Every single politician around the world is doing whatever they can to encourage as many people as possible to vote.
The current US president isn't stopping people from voting. He's trying to stop people who have already voted for the other side, or who are guaranteed to vote for the other side in the future, from voting (and from performing a bunch of other activities). All while collecting personal data on who votes for which party. It's more about persecuting political enemies than it is about just voting.
Don't forget he's already won two elections. Why on earth would he be against voting? It's like Palpatine said. He did genuinely love democracy. I'm sure Donald does as well.
what?
Your comment contradicts itself.
Voting doesn't matter when Israel remains in charge
"If the Super Bowl meant nothing, teams wouldn't try so hard to win it."
Of course the Super Bowl means something ($$$), but not any benefit to your daily life or mine.
I get my healthcare through the ACA (Obama) and I got 30% of my solar PV system paid for by the IRA (Biden), so every single day my daily life benefits from the last two times we had Democratic presidents.
Right, but it's not like the last democrat in office literally sent you money.
I mean, they kinda did. It'll take 15 years, but I'll see that money. And I get to be self sufficient and green in the meantime.
I thought the Republicans were all about self-sufficiency? Or is that only when you can't pay? When you can pay the oligarchs, they need you to be dependent.
Oh, so you admit that they're paying you to be a crisis actor for [whatever bullshit conspiracy conservatives are on right now]??? Checkmate atheists.
I was supposed to get money sent to me, literally, until the demented rapist in office killed the program to pocket more bribes. Then Democrat Joe Biden won election, restored the program, and I was literally sent money because of the last Democrat in office. That money has allowed me to change careers and it wouldn’t have happened if there wasn’t a Democrat in office, period.
So I dunno what the hell you’re talking about.
The joke is that Americans literally got stimulus checks last time a Democrat was in office, yes. It's only joke, why you heff to be mad?
? Some people got a ‘sorry the government was so incompetent the entire economy was disrupted by an infectious disease they chose not to control’ check.
But jokes on you because trump is totally sending everyone $2,000 to pay back his illegal tariff disaster in May of 2026. Its all over the intertubes. I’m gonna buy a tricked out Camaro with mag wheels when i get mine.
And it only cost laying the groundwork for the current regime. We wouldn't have this without their efforts.
How many tanks could a tankie tank if a tankie could tank tanks?
Call me what you will, the facts remain the facts.
You're spitting opinions and calling them facts