"Nobody's making games for the retired people" – The growing yet underserved market for grey gamers
12d 11h ago by lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/themachinestops in technology from www.gamesindustry.biz
I think it's pretty telling that so many of the people they talk to and a lot of the focus of the article isn't really about older gamers, it's about their money.
The opportunity is substantial. The 40+ segment in the US is on track to grow from $19 billion in 2022 to $43 billion by 2030, a 132% expansion at a moment when the rest of the industry is shrinking. These are players with the most disposable income, the longest gaming literacy, and the highest brand loyalty.
I'm in that "40+ segment" and I suspect part of the "problem" these companies face is that older gamers have seen the enshitification of so many of the brands we love. Our tolerance for bullshit is basically gone at this point. Micro transactions, season passes, fucking ads in games, all of that bullshit is a quick way to not get our money.
I also suspect "brand loyalty" is basically gone for the same reason. As a kid, I looked for the Electronic Arts logo. If I saw this logo on a game package, I knew I was looking at a good game. I haven't bought an EA game in years. I don't expect to buy an EA game any time soon and I basically ignore everything they do. Sure, if a trailer for Starflight 3 dropped, I'd sit up and take notice. I'd also expect it to be an enshitified mess wearing the skin of a beloved series to sucker me in, before pouncing on my wallet.
So ya, maybe just make good games and older gamers will inevitably buy them. I mean, Larian can pretty much say, "hi we're making..." and I'll have my wallet out and be pulling bills before they get any further. And maybe that's your "brand loyalty". Game companies who make good games and aren't private equity firms wearing the dead skin suits of brands we used to love.
This sums up my thoughts on it, too.
Before reading it, I was ready to come back here expecting to say I'm glad someone's thinking about older gamers and joke that I feel attacked (being grey and not feeling my age), but then I saw it went down the "but their juicy wallets" angle and... I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
They're not even couching it in more palatable terms. So now I expect it will be just a patronising nostalgia IP reboot fest designed to extract as much cash as possible. And almost certainly subscription-based, because what company doesn't these days.
Good luck with that: older people may have more disposable income, but they also have years of experience with marketing and FOMO tricks, along with the exploitation and butchering of franchises they once loved for a quick buck.
So now I expect it will be just a patronising nostalgia IP reboot fest designed to extract as much cash as possible.
Ya, this is one of the big turn-offs for me. For example, I really liked Prince of Persia: Sands of Time back in the day. I've got exactly zero interest in the remake. Ubisoft's logo now looking like a neat pile of dogshit, viewed from above, is pretty apt.
Prince of Persia is a great example! Did Lemmings ever get a reboot? 😄
I kind of want to see what modern game developers can do with old C64 games like Parallax or Head Over Heels, or Amiga ones like Cannon Fodder or Sensible Soccer, but time has taught me 2 things:
- Be very careful what you wish for. You may get it in the worst way possible.
- Nostalgia is sometimes best left in the past.
I do like that GOG, etc, do their game preservation thing. Seeing games like Hexen, Rise of the Triad and Wing Commander running on modern CPUs is kinda fun, but often confirms point 2 above.
I still break out the old Sierra games (specifically the Quest for Glory series) from time to time. Those are still a lot of fun and ScummVM makes them run damn near perfectly.
I am not quite in that demographic but getting pretty close. I've bought maybe a game a year for a very long time now. Most non-indie stuff is complete and utter trash. If I see a AAA publisher logo, I take it as a sign that it's not worth my time or money.
Most non-indie stuff is complete and utter trash.
Ya, it's telling that some of my favorite games these days all started as indie games. I do worry about them as they get in bed with larger producers, but I also understand the draw. E.g. I still love Valheim, but they were Embracer'd by private equity. And I'm waiting for that relationship to push them to shit all over their players. Though I understand that publisher backing lets them focus more on development and less on the marketing and distribution of the game.
Happy cake day!
There are literally 9000 hidden object games on Steam
Rather retire and play starcraft
Why would older people prefer hidden object games?
My guess is that they're not twitchy and they keep your mind active.
There are so many non-twitchy games, though, and hidden object games are not what they grew up with.
And maybe they like twitchy games. Platformers were among the first games older people played in their youth.
Because they're always forgetting where they left shit, its good practice for them.
Yeah, you have a prejudiced view of older people.
Oh no, are they so old they forgot how to take a joke too?
Fuck off lol I’m over 50 currently playing Saros
What would a game for a retired person look like? Stuff that isn't twitchy is all over the place: puzzlers, sims, casual experiences, and visual novels exist by the truck load. The main character doesn't need to be 80 for it to be a game for the older generation.
Turn based strategy. Anything that doesn't require reaction time and too much fine motor control.
Sid Meier's Civilizations series is a great example.
Boomer and Gen X retired people didn't typically grow up with computers. So, I think part of the challenge is a way to play games that's easy. Probably games on mobile phones are a good approach because the process of finding, installing and launching those games is easy if you're not a "computer person". OTOH, old people's eyes aren't great, and they don't tend to have a lot of dexterity, so while a phone UI might be good, the actual device is maybe too small and fiddly. Games on tablets is probably a much better option.
Steam deck might be ideal, but only if you can bump up the UI font size so that it's more readable if you're older. That would give them access to hundreds of thousands of games. But, the problem is most are probably designed for a PC screen, so they'll have tiny UI elements.
In terms of the games themselves, probably something turn-based would be ideal. I happen to like those kinds of games anyhow. But, as I get older and my reaction speed gets worse, I think I'll play fewer and fewer games that require fast reactions and good aim.
Another consideration would maybe be something social. A lot of older people are still in relationships, and want to be able to do something together. That also means either multiple steam decks so each person can have their own, or maybe couch co-op games.
So, I think it's:
- Turn based strategy, or any other turn-based game -- visual novels might work, trivia quizzes, detective games, just so long as it isn't reaction speed based
- A system that's easy to find, install, and launch games. Even steam for PC is probably intimidating for people who haven't been on PCs for most of their lives.
- Big fonts for people with fading vision.
- Easy controls.
- Maybe couch co-op for couples to play together
Based on that, I can see why Nintendo Wii games were really popular. The system is very easy to use. It runs on the TV so fonts can be nice and huge. A lot of it is couch co-op so couples can play together. They also have a lot of games meant for kids, but those games are also easy for older people to understand and enjoy. They also didn't have sexual / violent themes that old people are sometimes more sensitive about than your typical gamer.
It also shows why Nintendo's follow up consoles didn't work as well. The Wii U had a gamepad. That's more intimidating, and not as easy to use if you have poor vision. Then came the Switch, which was even worse if you have poor vision. Plus the detachable controllers are ideal for kids, but old people now have to fiddle with little almost hidden buttons to detach them. Not good.
My mother used to complain that they didn't make movies for old people. She literally did just want movies with old actors. What, are we gonna watch gamgam go to 6 doctors appointments?
they do make those movies. they don't make any money, because old people don't want to see them either and don't want to look at old people.
And old people don't have $30 for a movie ticket
which old people?
the ones around me have about 50 million in the bank, but yeah would whine a movie ticket is too much. but they have no problem flying to europe every other month.
Damn I guess I don't know millionaire old people
the old people around me don't think they are millionaires, they think they are poor and struggling
Expendables?
I am almost 50, so not quite retired yet. I like slow casual games. Puzzle games, survival games and CRPGs scratch my gaming itch.
Battery theft simulators.
/S
My dad is in his 70s and he spends most of his time playing open world shooters/rpgs. He just finished borderlands whatever is new and started his 5th or so witcher 3 run. He also plays free to play puzzle games on mobile (to my disappointment)
My point being that I think "games for the retired people" is just games....
I'm old and I agree. I play Elden Ring, Dark Souls, and stuff like Overwatch. I do not want games aimed at old people - just good games. No one wants "Shuffleboard: The Game" or "Pickleball: The Game". And if they do want those things, they probably already exist.
Yep. I'm old. I play Wingspan to chill, but also Mech Warrior 5 Mercenaries for some action shooting.
What makes a game "for retired people"?
What a silly premise.
Serious answer? By making a game that targets a vulnerable group that preys on loneliness and declining mental capacity. This speaks less about "what games would old people play and enjoy" and more about "how to leverage abusive techniques to maximize the extraction of wealth".
Oof. I can respect your cynicism though.
Candy crush is already a thing
Wait, but that's also young people!
They don't say this in the article...out loud. But it is mostly about how they have a large disposable income so it is 100% what they mean.
My thoughts as well.
Old people like the same shit as young people when it comes to gaming. Ever played D&D?
I thought that was just CRPGs? I swear half of the modern CRPG fanbase are white hairs.
WTF are games for retired people?
Tony Hawk's Pro Walker 2000
Grand Theft Walker 5
WTF is retiring?
Something the boomers took away from us when they retired
They took it away long before that.
Metal Gear Solid IV duh
Low-APM.
Ok brb making a game about being a self righteous asshole boomer who is always correct and its actually everyone else's fault that he has no friends and his wife and kids dont speak with him.
Call it Boomer Shooter, but its not an FPS, its actually primarily a series of small adventure/puzzle levels with complex branching dialogue options.
You get points for shooting down ideas you either didn't think of first or don't like because they might imply that you aren't perfect.
The rules are made up and the points don't matter beyond a high score at the end of the bad ending.
The good ending happens when you don't get that many points, despite the game constantly handholding you and telling you thats what you should focus on.
There, enjoy your retirement.
EDIT:
The DLC will add the ability to play as a privileged white woman who gets points for morally policing everyone around her but herself, spreading misinformation, and guilt tripping people who trust her.
EDIT 2:
In case I'm not being clear enough, a Boomer that wants a video game for their enfeebled retired ass can fucking make it themselves, and/or possibly think about why it is the case that the industry has enshittified to the extent that it has.
Who is it exactly thats in charge of all these enshittifying gaming companies again? Oh right yeah, its your 401ks, teaching children how to love their gambling addiction, so that you can retire well.
I mean, it can't be that hard, right? To make a toy that satifies Boomers? Just bootstrap it yourselves, I'm sure you'll discover that if you just shake a few hands and burn a few hundred million dollars, it's just about showing up and doing the job well, or something.
... you want a Boomer game?
It already exists, its Candy Crush, its Words with Friends, its Scrabble Go, its Solitaire.
That's not even an insult, that's just literally market research data.
Yeah they have. They're the same fucking games as before. If you're not a gamer by the time you're over 65, odds are good that you're not gonna suddenly become one.
My 76 year old aunt is active in her local veteran's hall. One of the younger vets brought in a gaming pc and demoed some games. My aunt was stoked. She immediately got a discord account and is shopping new laptops so she can play some games.
If the old aren't gamers already, often having someone show them in person can flip that switch. Their meeting hall has a couple pc's available and they're talking about upgrading them for LAN parties.
Games are marketed at the young. But retirees have free time. Marketing games to older folks makes sense.
Yeah but for everyone like that there's one or more like my mother (that's demonic) or dad (what's going on, you keep switching too fast, what is that, etc...?)
what the fuck? isn’t the dark souls for retired people… just dark souls?
"Analysts" are a large part of why I abandoned "AAA" games over the decades. Keep them.
I thought that when you turn 40 they just give you a copy of Tetris The Grand Master and that's all you get to play for the rest of your life?
I still like my 3D Tetris, though. I was just never able to beat my record that i scored in 1995.
Tetris effect and lumines rise are the replacements.
They are making games for retirees
AARP.com has a long list of games, and all the leaderboards resets everyday at midnight.
My grandma, who has dementia, and severe arthritis, has an alarm to get up at midnight to go play the games so she can be #1. Every night. She loves being #1.
She's 82 years old. Just broke her hip for the 3rd time, and she asked if we can bring her laptop so she can play her games.
I'm gonna pwn your grandma no cap
Bet
They're playing MMOs. I am currently playing a game with a group of people and the ages range from 35 to 80. Game has been operating for 24 years at this point. Several retired during that time.
And how has Eve been treating you?
Worse than his boss but that's a given.
FFXI in this case 😆
Why would retired people need their own video games?
As soon as I retire, every single one of the multiple hundred games in my steam library will be a game for at least one retired person... except the ones I don't like and don't play anymore, like PAYDAY 2.
I still care about video games very much but the industry suffers from growing bad incentives. Stop Killing Games is merely the start for me - I want games to catch up with other software and start respecting user's software freedoms.
Games for the unemployed? Have you not heard of MMOs?
Bullshit. Plenty of games oldnpeople can enjoy.
Balatro
Stardew Valley
Peglin
New heroes of might and magic
XCOM
Civilization
Flight Simulator (plus a ton of all the other sim games on the market).
Man I've seen my fair share of old people rocking it to Best Saber and and Synth Riders. Just play on the right difficulty..
(40m) It's funny, I haven't touched any of the versions since 5.0.
It looks so complicated nowadays.
I played version 10 (FSX) back in the days and it had an excellent progressive tutorial. You can also set the realism level and you can select simpler propeller airplanes.
Love how Gustafsson is focused on the money of old gamers.
I'm 47. I would be the prime target for this sort of campaign. Except a I've been boycotting shitty companies for so long any nostalgia I might have felt at the thought buying consoles, or a game published by EA, Activision, or Blizzard has been dead for more than a decade.
The enshitification of triple AAA titles by MBAs has driven me away from the space. Keep fucking slapping surcharges on EVERYTHING; day one dlc, microtransactions, always online DRM, the ability to revoke access to the games we paid for, because we never really owned it.
I will continue to ignore your shitty products and purchase small indie titles on PC that take risks and innovate. Withholding my money and refusing to purchase your shit will provide publishers with a sense of pride and accomplishment for retaining their customer base.
Video game companies are using their product to extract as much profit as possible, mostly young men.
Gambling companies are using their product to extract as much profit as possible, mostly young men.
There isn't enough money to satisfy both of them, so eventually they will literally go to war, and try to genocide the other. Sounds like it might have potential for a screenplay.
Did you manage to retire by 47? Seems like an outlier more than their prime target.
I mean I'm early 50s, so a bit below one of their thresholds, but still in the "older gamers, 40, 50, 60..." bracket used elsewhere in that article.
I'm not sure what's underserved. There are shitloads of games out there that I'm happy to play. Sure, I'll nostaglia myself into a coma playing Infocom games in bed on my laptop. But I'll also sink hours into a good story or walking sim, the single-player campaigns of an FPS, a puzzle game or hell, I'll keep the kids off my lawn in Fortnite and have fun making them cry. How am I underserved?
It's not a good long term market because retirees will be gone in 20-30 years and millennials+ will never be able to retire.
Most games are not lasting longer than 5 years anyway, then the userbase is getting so small that the revenue isn't attractive anymore.
sure there are games for retired people. EVE Online. pretty much everyone who plays that are either middle aged or retired.
Yeah, this seems more like marketers worrying about leaving money behind.
Any game where I can stop and think for a moment will work perfectly fine when I'm retired, from factorio to final fantasy.
I'm not sure having games made for you would be better than having games you can play. There's plenty of shit out there that's not marketed towards me anymore, but I still enjoy it. And yes, it's rarely AAA games. Even more enjoyable AND cheaper.
What about indie games? Lots of good games, also for gray people.
I'm grey (but still working), and old genX, people my age often retire. I play First Person shooters, mainly. About 12h per week on Destiny 2, all PVP, currently. Destiny is nigh-dead so I'm looking for a replacement soon.
Not a lot of indie games doing that genre well, sadly. I was going to play battlefield 6 then looked at ownership... EA was a nasty company from the beginning but is now owned by Jared the Lich Kushner and some Saudi oilymoney. Woof.
I'm 54 in a couple of months... I'm currently playing BF6 to death. Before that it was Apex. I've been playing games since the 8-bit days and just never stopped.
there aremore than enough games in circulation to keep retired people entertained forever
Pretty sure my dad just wants to play Skyrim forever.
Games are overwhelmingly made by and marketed to younger generations, argue analysts, while the older demographic is being ignored
They're busy playing the stuff of their young days.
Any game that relies too much on quick reflexes will usually not be good for older people. Easier difficulties can mitigate that somewhat. Turn based games are perfect for all ages, you can take as long as you want to think your stuff through. You don't need to make these games "for old people". I also remember seeing a video that talked about a 70yo man who began playing Asheron's Call (a 1999 MMORPG) with his grandson and really enjoyed the game, to the point he kept playing until it was shutdown for good.^[Found this massivelyop link, but the video is unavailable https://massivelyop.com/2017/01/11/check-out-one-of-the-oldest-asherons-call-players-in-all-senses-of-the-word/]
The industry has spent 40 years chasing the same narrowly defined audience because it was the safest bet, until everyone was chasing it. Imagine if Hollywood only made movies for 18-year-old men. That's roughly the bet games have been making.
True for big studios, false for indies, who, as always, prove time and time again that you can achieve success with "non standard" formulas, such as Balatro, Stardew Valley, Return of the Obra Dinn, Undertale (some survivorship bias is being applied here, lots of indies, even those that follow "standard formulas" more closely, fail to find success, even with good games)
There is a mismatch between the general investment in tutorials for the first few minutes, relative to where actually the player loss happens,
Make the fucking tutorial OPTIONAL and something you pick as an option in the fucking main menu. This isn't rocket science.
But that brings you down to other categories that have been growing, like cosy[sic] games, casual games, and retro. And retro has an advantage in that audience in that you don't need the latest [computer].
There is an important thing to keep in mind here: most casual games are predatory mobile shit. That market has been an absolute cesspool for something like 12 years now, which is almost as long as they existed. Yes, the games are "enjoyable", because they've been finely tuned to be as addictive as possible.
"Give me those 60 year olds who watched Star Trek the original series," he concludes. "Come on down, play Star Trek Online with me."
STO? Pass. Unless we can kill this dude:
Make the fucking tutorial OPTIONAL and something you pick as an option in the fucking main menu. This isn't rocket science.
The article isn't saying you lose players in the tutorial, you lose the much farther in when the level 9 boss too hard to beat for someone who stepped away from the game for 2 weeks.
A lot of people would probably like an optional tutorial, but it's not the point they are trying to make.
I understand that, but a lot of gamers can figure some games out without a forced tutorial. WASD movement, jump with space, crouch with control, sprint with shift, move camera with mouse, shoot/attack with left click, etc. A lot of designers/developers became so desperate with the possibility that their game might be "someone's first game of that type" that they choose to force everyone to play the tutorial right at the start, even players that finished the game and decided to start again, and leave it at that.
The tutorial as a main menu option fixes both problems.
I don't see how the tutorial as a main menu option fixes the problem of someone who played for a while, then had to walk away for two weeks only to come back and have to deal with the ninth boss with degraded skills.
- "I don't remember how to do that thing, I remember the tutorial showed that"
- Go to tutorial
- Relearn
- Load game back to where you were
The alternative is the tutorial being accessible from within the game, like a manual. In no case the solution is "force the tutorial at the beginning of the game"
The skills learned in the tutorial aren't the ones that are forgotten when you take two weeks off late in the game. Redoing a tutorial wouldn't be the solution.
Uh, every sandbox vehicle construction game?
Every factory optimization game?
I had to quit playing most of them because they each one could count as a second job.
Minecraft, Factorio, Satisfactory, Space Engineers, E.V.E, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Kerb Space Program, Don't Starve (Together), Dragon Quest Builders 1/2, No Man's Sky, Fallout 3/NV/4, Borderlands 3/4, Slay the Spite 1/2.
There are tons to games to last (the remaining) lifetime. Hell I would have enough with solely Factorio
don't forget my summer car
My band plays charity gigs at nursing homes, and they seem to love the Wii! They'll have like Wii Sports nights and stuff.
I'm getting on in years a bit myself. I have no problem with strategy/sim type games, but those where you can't afford to even blink are beginning to test my stamina. Though my wife recently got me into Diablo IV, and I seem to be doing better with that. Maybe because it doesn't use a 1st person perspective?
While they're not to my liking and have exploitative microtransactions, the market is highly served by games like Candy Crush and Wordscapes.
Did not read the article just saw the headline and thought that’s gotta be the dumbest thing ever that’s all.
I got into fortnite with friends over the winter, as I was turning 40. I get my share of zb dubs youngins
EVE Online exists? (sorry! couln't resist, don't pod me!)
also World of Warcraft: Retired housewives
Call of Duty: Almost retired Mall Ninja Dads
Candy Crush: Actual Grandmas
conspiracy Youtube: Grandpas
Is there a WoW - retired housewife connection I’m not aware of?
anecdotal evidence only :D
it's a dead market. once the current crop of retirees die off, there won't be anymore because the rest of us will have to work til we die.
Stardew, Animal Crossing
Perhaps unusually, I plan to take up gaming when I'm older, having never seriously tried it. I'm 48. I work in IT and I'm a nerd for retro computing, but beyond 16-bit platform shooters and Lemmings, I have barely dipped my toe into gaming culture. At work, I feel like an Irishman who's never tried Guinness.
I've avoided it for two reasons. One is a mental block: a strange and unjustified prejudice against gaming culture. In 90s rural Scotland, where I was raised, you had to fight hard for your place in the social pecking order. I enjoyed football, but my friends were nerds, and I preferred their company to that of the jocks, so I chose my tribe early.
When puberty hit hard, I was already at a disadvantage by not being into sports. I loved my Atari ST, but I was socially aware enough to know that that definitely wasn't going to attract girls. Fortunately, I also loved music. Nirvana was getting big, and I was hooked. Drinking, smoking, and playing in bands were my thing, and they held strong social currency for a self-conscious kid.
As a result, an almost pathological fear of being judged kept me from getting involved. I missed the whole GTA thing and, except for a bit of Portal, never bothered with it.
I also know that I'm quite prone to addiction, so if I were into gaming, it would eat my life.
So, when I do finally retire and find I'm unable to do much, that's when I'll jump on. I'll be the oldest noob in town and I'm kind of looking forward to it.
ty for sharing this
The gaming market is so oversaturated that there's something for everyone, even old people. There are so many games that don't require fast reflexes.
They can always go play LoL
Haven't they suffered through life enough?
Can they, though? According to the article their dumb boomer brains can't remember how to play between gaming sessions. Does LoL give them a play tutorial every 15 minutes so they can enjoy gaming?
Wamp wamp
I used to know an elderly gamer, he was very sad he no longer could play FPS and car racing games. He instead mainly played Heroes of Might and Magic and its clones.
Old people games:
You mean like halo?
If i could introduce europa universalis to some old people who like history, it would probably ruin their lives...
Kinda figured we'd just make games for eachother
Sudoku's origin story.
Old School Runescape.
Old people don't make games. Young people make games. When old people start making games about their life experience I'm sure we'll get some games that make boomers happy. Until then, pick yourself up by your bootstrap gramps, and be the change you want to see in the world!
i mean they are mostly played by younger people. old people dont seem to interested in playing games.
They do play when given the opportunity, but they have different tastes and interests from the rest of the market.
The argument is they are played by younger people because they are designed for younger people. Older people, the ones coming into retirement age, grew up playing video games. They enjoy and value video games, but have slower reflexes and less time. Retirement solves the latter issue. From the article (emphasis mine):
"Developers have been ignoring older gamers for the same reason it took them decades to discover women," he says. "The industry has spent 40 years chasing the same narrowly defined audience because it was the safest bet, until everyone was chasing it. Imagine if Hollywood only made movies for 18-year-old men. That's roughly the bet games have been making.
"The opportunity is substantial. The 40+ segment in the US is on track to grow from $19 billion in 2022 to $43 billion by 2030, a 132% expansion at a moment when the rest of the industry is shrinking. These are players with the most disposable income, the longest gaming literacy, and the highest brand loyalty. They are also the least visible in the industry's dashboards because the metrics were built around younger players who compete frequently. Older lifelong gamers don't, but they keep playing, and they keep spending.
"What needs to change is the industry's mindset. An entire generation has now grown up playing video games and is ageing into a life stage where they have time, money, and the desire to keep playing. The first publishers to actually see this player will capture a structural advantage. The rest will arrive 10 years late, exactly like they did with women."