Dessalines, head .ml admin, lead Lemmy dev actively spreading genocide denialism
11d 23h ago by infosec.pub/u/cm0002 in meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works from infosec.pub
This video is by Eric Hovagim an up and coming Tankie "reporter" and in his video he even unironically leans into China is just doing a "combatting terrorism", just like the US gov does, amongs other things to justify chinas various human rights abuses.
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Ah, I already have ml blocked
It keeps getting unblocked for me and I don't know why. They're insufferable.
migrate to Piefed - it works with lemmy instances but doesn't rely on software created by propaganda spreading scumbags. the less people use anything created by dessalines the better
How does one migrate? I’m on lemmy.world
You will want to go to the setting page on Lemmy.world, there should be a section to Export your settings as JSON.
Then you can go to https://redirect.piefed.social/and pick a PieFed instance. Should be very similar to registering a Lemmy account.
Finally, go to the setting of the PieFed instance and there is a Import & Export section. You can upload the JSON file you saved there and all your subscriptions and blocks will be carried over. Post history will not be included though as it’ll be a separate user.
please migrate to the Sahara, leave the water
There are a few instances that have them blocked. The one I'm on is such.
Apart from this particular issue, why? Not a Marxist myself btw.
Argumentative and stupid. They also post propaganda genuinely.
yes, stay in your right-wing bubble
I'm a socialist fyi. Not all socialists are Communists.
In what sense are you using the term socialist?
Someone who wants to redistribute wealth.
That's OK, I misread your comment yesterday.
Was late.
If you push tankies hard enough, they will eventually admit that they are willing murderers themselves and it is about power grab. They call out violence from anyone but their own side. They will cite other revolutions and coups to justify advocating for their own, but simultaneously thinks the same other revolutions they are inspired from are bad while their own is better. They are like the Nazis who gaslight and use hypocrisy to their own advantage. Tankies/Marxist Leninists are rightfully called red fascists after all.
"Rules for thee, not for me"
But they still get butthurt when you compare them to fascists, because they don't understand the difference between ideology and methodology.
Like, I could make that distinction crystal clear in my critique and yet they'll still go "But mah communism! It's a dictatorship of the proletariat, dumbass! Read more theory!" And then proceed to call me "blue fash" while trying to equate horseshoe theory to both-sides-ism 🙄
Read more theory!
I just tell them that the only reason they aren't raging capitalists is that they haven't read enough Milton Friedman or Adam Smith. Read more theory! Not that way! (No, I'm not a believer in the Chicago School of economics.)
I like to quote Marx to them without attribution just to watch it go right over their heads while they call me a "fascist shitlib"
I have some of them tagged for saying things like “people like you are the reason there will be gulags” and “you’ll get the wall too” directly to other Lemmy users.
They’re determined that their superior philosophy will make the world a better place, no matter how many people they have to kill.
I wish I had a proper Chinese source of news I could trust. I feel like everything that comes out of there is filtered through either Western or Chinese propaganda. Is there a Uyghur genocide? Ive heard all kinds of stories and at this point I have zero idea what's happening there at all. All I know, is with extreme authority, comes extreme abuses.
Take your pick:
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/cultural-erasure/
https://thehuman-rights.com/uyghurs-china-systematic-detention-cultural-erasure/
https://apnews.com/article/china-uyghur-banned-songs-xinjiang-f63ad27225ab1fc021c8d8949ca799c4
https://uyghurtimes.com/china-launches-new-wave-of-uyghur-cultural-erasure-after-ethnic-unity-law/
https://www.uygurnews.com/tag/urumqi/
They're doing it in Tibet too:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2026/05/04/china-harmonization-plan-erasing-tibetan-language
https://europeantimes.org/tibets-identity-disappearing-under-chinas-cultural-pogroms/
And in Inner Mongolia:
https://pen.org/report/inner-mongolia-china-repression/
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/china-accused-of-erasing-mongolian-culture-online
It's all part of one overarching strategy they call "Cultural Unification" (pronounced: cultural erasure and forced assimilation).
look at all those definitely not biased western 'sources'
So not a single chinese source, as requested. Just majority NED publications.
Are you lost? .ml is that way 🫵
Also, you misread the previous comment. They said they wished they had a proper Chinese source; i.e., because all Chinese sources are state propaganda. They're not allowed to report on it.
I feel like everything that comes out of there is filtered through either Western or Chinese propaganda. Is there a Uyghur genocide? Ive heard all kinds of stories and at this point I have zero idea what's happening there at all.
I provided them with a variety of reputable sources, including non-western, non-chinese ones.
Are you suggesting the only sources we can acknowledge are the ones sponsored by the PRC?
https://web.archive.org/web/20251210063316/https://www.cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-wordsMarxist-Leninist article, based on Chinese sources
not being able to find the truth is the point.
If you want to find out you could just go there.
It's a popular tourist destination.
THANK YOU! I had a "discussion" with the ladies, gentlemen and non-binary people over at .ml a bit ago and thought that I was going insane.
You are insane. But not wrong.
I mean Taiwanese news exist and they cover stuff from the mainland. Most of them are probably biased as well but at least there's a spectrum since they have freedom of press
Yeah because the Western war on terror was so totally benign and respectful of human rights.
The level of hypocrisy here is so wild.
Two things can be bad.
My point is claiming China is fighting terrorism just like the US should be a criticism, not a defense. And these are people that (rightly) criticized US antiterrorism actions, so it's bizarre to then act like similar things are totally fine and normal when China does them.
Ah I see. My misunderstanding.
I think that's what they're saying, pretty sure they're calling out hypocrisy of the video itself not the post
people who are good in tech, sciences should really just concentrate on their craft instead of spouting something they dont know about, or care to research for validity of thier claims.
Oh, they care to do research. They put a lot of research into confirmation bias, disinformation, and agitprop. It's some of the most thoroughly researched bullshit out there.
Unlike you with your crappy takes, Dessalines possesses a vast knowledge in these matters.
Which should be obvious from his elaborate, detailed and informed answers and comments.
Using the fact that he's also good in other fields to deny him his opinion is another one of your crappy takes.
IDK what you may possibly be good at, geopolitics definitely is not it.
Maybe you sit this one out.
Luckily, I got .ml blocked on my piefed instance. Commenting from my feddit account because I am still working out the bugs on my piefed for example why I cant see posts from cm0002
PieFed has a censor in place specifically for cm0002. Go ask CM directly, he'll confirm it.
No. I am just not seeing this post on my piefed. I can see most of his older posts though.
Question, what keeps it from being defederated at all? I see how much of a problem it is but it's still there.
LOL
Is the genocide in the room with us now Adrian?
There is no genocide
Not every persecution is genocide
In this case tho there are reports of mass forced sterilization. So that is genocide if true.
is there any verfied source saying this
There certainly are verified claims. As to proof, idk.
"The report, by China scholar Adrian Zenz"
LOL, who else but the fanatic deranged religious zealot and rabid Sinophobe.
Is he a sinophobe or just against genocide? Honestly I don't know, but it's hardly the only claim of such things.
Maybe you should look up what this unhinged freak has said himself.
Those are facts, not claims.
Here's a bio.
Unfortunately it misses a lot.
Like his anti-semitism.
From his book:
Yes, he seems rather fucked up. Doesn't mean he's wrong tho. Idk. I suspect there's some truth.
I suspect there’s some truth.
Sorry, I go on facts.
Will some of those terrorists that got caught had a nice time in jail?
Certainly not.
Could China have made some mistakes in dealing with that difficult and dangerous situation?
Probably.
But they don't have Guantanamo.
And there certainly isn't a genocide.
There is simply no reason why they would want that.
Truth is it's they misrepresented the Chinese reaction for western propaganda.
Also the terrorism attempts have stopped and Xinjiang is peaceful again a popular tourist spot.
Yes. But you don't know what the CCP did to kill the dissent. They have a pretty nasty track record. And you don't know they haven't forced sterilization. Obviously it's unfair for me to expect a negative proof. But China has killed and imprisoned many people for peaceful political protesting. So these claims fit their MO. And as you said, what they did 'worked'. Think about that - what do you think it takes to make a group of people who want independence and freedom to give up their religion and go along with authoritarian rule?
You make a lot of wild claims again with zero proof.
At best you offer 'their MO' which is based on the same western slander and baseless BS.
what do you think it takes to make a group of people who want independence and freedom to give up their religion and go along with authoritarian rule?
And there we have it, 'authoritarian rule'.
Looks like you pretended to want to have an open discussion and be neutral but you only faked it so you could spout your Sinophobia.
And they weren't 'people who want independence and freedom'.
They were a small group of Turkic, western and Turkish backed fanatic Islamic terrorists.
A lot of them showing up later in Syria to help another western and Turkish backed POS headchopper islamic terrorist.
You know, the one western governments now shake hands with.
There and in many places the western tactic of proxy terrorists worked, it didn't in China.
And that's all I'm going to say.
I'm sure there are enough other Sinophobes here who will entertain your tired propaganda clichés on MoG, It's the right circle jerk for that.
I'm not one of them.
Are you in China rn? If you are, what happens if you protest anything the government does?
China has terrible human rights and you know it. Yes, there's plenty of bad examples from other countries too, but China is quite clearly one of the worst of the larger countries. You probably even have some sort of rational for the Tianamen Sq massacre; why are you so defending China so hard?
I'm Belgian. Despite being bombarded with anti-China propaganda I have the mental capacity to be sceptical and look up sources and facts.
Unlike you I don't don't regurgitate the known liars of the western media's claims for truth.
And like any other country China has protests.
Amnesty and HRW are biased sources.
The USSA is much worse BTW.
No country has put more of its people in jail.
China has much better rights. You simply don't know about that either.
And what a surprise you drag up the Tiananmen BS.
You've almost have a perfect China bad bingo card.
Please go ahead and explain what you imagine happened, always up for a laugh.
And why are you so defending the China bad BS so hard?
Seriously you need to self reflect on your projection there. I'm not sure what bs you've taken in about china and especially tianamen sq. Some of us watched that play out live. The amount of spin and censorship and throwing people in jail or worse that china has done just to try and hide that should give you pause before swallowing what china has ejactlated on that subject or other similar things.
Did you watch those foreign backed terrorists infiltrate a peaceful pro-communism and anti-corruption protest where they lynched police and burned them alive?
And still none of your explanation for what supposedly happened only baseless accusations. Go on tell me, can't wait.
Who is 'some of us'? Where they part of that anti China movement that had to run?
Like those scummy violent Hong Kong troublemakers?
Wow. You are really lost. I'd say go to China and try some freedom there if you are so sure of how great they are. But I suspect you're actually already there, and you already know all too well.
LOL
you fanatics are so indoctrinated that anyone not parroting your idiotic nonsense must be Chinese or paid.
And again, you have absolutely nothing, you failed miserably.
Not one fact only idiotic accusations and garbage.
Bye loser.
You're the blind CCP supporter. Maybe learn some critical thinking? Or I suppose your handlers don't allow that. Sad.
Mr projection here.
I suppose your handlers don’t allow that.
See, I was right.
Man fuck off, you're pathetic.
Blocking you now since you're annoying.
Stay salty for losing hard. LOOOOSER 😂
¯(ツ)/¯ there's lots of western propaganda here that doesn't get pushback, I say just let all the propaganda flow together and get over it. Everyone is pretty much advocating for "just allow my propaganda only!!!"
Edit: my main point was its all fine or none of its fine, maybe not all of you but many on Lemmy are fine with proganda from one side but not the other.
What is that quote about how the goal of a propagandist is not to get you to believe their lies, but to get you to believe everyone fighting them is just as dishonest?
Anyway, yeah, no, not all sides on every issue are equally dishonest, and any sources found to be deceptive should be pushed back on.
That's basically what the employees from the Russian troll factories were saying as well. Their goal was to sow discord and distrust. It played perfectly well into Putin's politics of essentially saying that democratic countries are chaotic and there needs to be a strong hand to guide people towards order.
That's a very centrist view. When you chose to ignore everything, you miss when anti-human behavior becomes normal.
Anti human behaviour has been the norm for governments in the west and other places for.... Ever..??? I don't ignore everything, my point was many people here ignore one side and push back only the other side.
Because sometimes, facts are just factual.
Crazy, I know...
Sometimes facts are factually facts indeed
You can just be against both types of propaganda?
This view is about on par as bad as the propaganda itself.
Propaganda by definition is something that isn't true. It might be wholly untrue, or partially untrue, or twist facts in a specific way to evoke an emotional response while staying "technically" true - with the singular goal to smear the opponent, lest actual fact be debated.
Political debate should always be about debating facts and adopting one's view to reality, not twisting and churning reality to fit one's agenda. It has to stay objective and factual for it to be worth anything.
This is a mistake a lot of people make when it comes to debate. They take facts (often cherry picked, wilfully ignoring aspects that are contrary), draw conclusions, then treat those conclusions as the facts themselves and are unwilling to budge from those conclusions even when presented with further information that proves those conclusions incorrect.
I have a perfect anecdotal example that happened just a few days ago. A right wing "commentator" published numbers of sexual assault reports in various European countries, comparing early 2000s to 2024-2026. The numbers have obviously increased, and this commentator immediately correlated it with immigration numbers - except for one country, Poland. This is obviously an overly simplified conclusion that disregarded things like reporting guideline changes (which means more cases are treated as sexual assault - e.g. in the early 2000s, an upskirt photo would have you charged with harassment in many countries but today it's considered sexual assault), the improving trend of reporting itself (meaning women are less afraid to report if they're assaulted, as police take it more seriously), and also the addition of spousal rape, which 20 years ago wasn't really codified. The numbers are especially obvious in e.g. the UK, where reporting also includes the offender's race - and the data clearly shows that each racial group tracked, roughly matches the makeup of the population (e.g. Asians make up ~9.3% of the population and around 8% of reported SA cases are committed by an Asian assailant, or ~82-83% are committed by white people and they make up ~82.9% of the population). If the increase in SA numbers was due to an increase of immigration, these percentages wouldn't match up.
But it's incredibly easy to whip up some frenzy by omitting these supporting facts, and people are generally too lazy to look them up themselves. They see a narrative that resonates with them emotionally and go with it regardless if it's the reality.
This is the danger of propaganda. All it does is push people to the extremes and create societal clashes. It doesn't help political debate, it snuffs it out, and leads to an inability to cooperate.
Politics at the end of the day should be about cooperation, the ability to solve problems in a way that leaves everyone happy - or, more likely, the least unhappy. But how can you do that when everyone is frothing at the mouth because of propaganda? How can you have an objective debate when everyone is emotionally charged and unwilling to compromise, when the whole thing goes from supporting a view with facts, to supporting a team no matter what? This isn't sports. Your allegiance isn't to a team regardless what they do, but to a stance, to an ideology that can be debated - and if your team shifts their ideology to the point it doesn't fit YOUR ideology, you should be under I obligation to continue supporting them.
One should only have unfaltering loyalty to a single thing. Truth. Let that be scientific truth, historical truth, or personal truth. Propaganda is contrary to that. Therefore one should combat propaganda, regardless if it's against their personal beliefs or in support of it. In fact one should be against propaganda especially if it's supporting their beliefs. Because how can you say, with a clear heart, that you believe in something when you base that belief on lies?
Propaganda can absolutely be true, it's just that purpose of propaganda is to further an agenda, not promote truth.
Do note that I did say it can be "technically" true.
But it's never the whole truth, because the whole truth is often mundane and uninteresting. The purpose of propaganda is to evoke an emotional response that pushes the observer towards supporting the agenda behind it.
And partial truth, while might be true, isn't truth. In fact omission of contrary facts IS a lie, making the statement ultimately untrue.
That's not the definition of propaganda, no. Propaganda is communication meant to influence. That's it
The point of totalitarian propaganda is not to make you believe it, the point of totalitarian cacophony is to invalidate the notion of truth, so dipshits can shrug and say "Who can say, really? Everyone lies!" when word of fucking genocide comes out.
I didn't say "everyone lies". No shit genocide is bad genious, my only point in that comment was that the vast majority of people on Lemmy are fine with propaganda from the West, but aren't fine with propaganda from other countries.
Maybe that's not you in particular, you may see and call out western propaganda too but most don't.
Its the reason hexbear gets so much hate here, they aren't really anyworse than other communities, the news and narrative they push just isn't from your preferred government's. I don't agree with many of their opinions but it's refreshing to see the other side.
I didn’t say “everyone lies”. No shit genocide is bad genious, my only point in that comment was that the vast majority of people on Lemmy are fine with propaganda from the West, but aren’t fine with propaganda from other countries.
And your reaction to this is "Therefore, seeing more lies is refreshing"?
Fucking lunacy.
Its the reason hexbear gets so much hate here, they aren’t really anyworse than other communities, the news and narrative they push just isn’t from your preferred government’s. I don’t agree with many of their opinions but it’s refreshing to see the other side.
Fucking lmao.
All propaganda should get pushback. Maybe western propaganda should get more but typically pushback is at least allowed.
ML doesn't even allow you to fact-check their propaganda. That makes it so much worse, even if it had an equal level of factual information as western propaganda (it doesn't).
Fair points on ml not allowing criticism, but your last point about how Western propaganda is more truthful sounds sort of like somebody who's been drinking the propaganda, you don't really have evidence to support that claim I think.
Meh I don't really want to get into that debate since we're talking about a wide range of materials that may be more or less truthful depending on the exact source and topic.
Regardless, propaganda is typically extremely misleading.
The levels of disinformation coming out of Russia and China are very different than in the west. In the west, governments tend to try and justify their atrocities, not hide the fact that they ever happened. Even when Western governments do try to deny that something happened, it never seems to work very well. Either journalists get a hold of it, or an opposing faction takes control and releases the information.
Americans who are ignorant of American atrocities have actively chosen ignorance. That's not true in China or Russia, and it's definitely not true in North Korea. There is certainly a movement to try and make America that way though.
The levels arent different the type of propaganda is. It's really impossible to judge from with in the propaganda bubble.
its on you if you are drinking the koolaid of propaganda, propaganda more or less hsould be ignored and heavily fact checked for biases so you can be more informed what you are consuming. You are more or less like conservatives, they drink propagand whole sale without questioning it.
Are you dumb? I don't drink the propaganda, I can see and identify it from all sides most of the time. I just get annoyed with people on Lemmy pushing one side and saying the other is bad. Their both bad.
sockpuppet.