Repository > individual .exe
10d 4h ago by lemmy.world/u/cannedtuna in linuxmemes
Update first, then upgrade
Good catch. Haven’t been using apt in some time.
sudo pacman -Syu
yay
which yay
yay: aliased to paru
Is it even apt-get still? thought they changed over to apt long ago and apt-get is just a symlink for legacy reasons.
At least that's what I last read... (speaking as someone also loving candy) .
apt is a wrapper over the apt- binaries (apt-search apt-cache etc).
apt is meant more for user interaction and apt-get is more stable and more for scripting. But apt-get is often used in online tutorials because it doesn't really change.
I think it wasn't for APT but I once worked for a business with a lot of RHEL, the script that was updating hundreds of servers was using the user wrapper instead of the binaries. A warning was displayed in the script to warn not to use the wrapper for scripts.
I warned my team leader of the issue and was completely ignored and was said that it was an issue for the team that made the script in the first place.
I gave up.
A few weeks later, the poorly designed script botched a major update on hundred of servers because the wrapper had a tiny change and the update script didn't handle it well.
It's insane to me how much money a business can waste for stupid shit like that. The devs warned us not to use their wrapper to script on, the linux team did it anyway, my warning was ignored, many hours of engineers work was wasted fixing the chaos that ensued.
paru
It runs so much faster if you do upgrade first \s
Update before upgrade you nonce
C’mon, it’s Debian! Obsolete anyway. Update today, upgrade in a week, not like things gonna change. Perhaps the man forgot the upgrade a week ago, upgraded, and then decided to double-check there’s nothing new anyway. Right?
No, no. You gotta update last to let them marinate for a while before you upgrade. If you upgrade too fast it just doesn't taste the same.
i agree not as tender
Isn't this how Non-Torvalds Linus bricked his install
I just want to share that last semester, the Windows podium computer we used decided randomly to update during a student presentation. It did not help their nerves, but I did turn it into a chance to evangelize Linux.
And no, they can't use their own laptop, the connections to the podium computer, and thus the projector, use VGA...
Not that it matters much but isn't there cheap adapters to/from VGA?
Yes but it's generally easier and less prone to issues to just open their PowerPoint (or really, Google sheets) on the podium since I'm already using it. I'm sure the admin uses adapters as their excuse not to update the hardware though... (even if they are still using Win 11 on decades old computers).
Honestly, I would prefer if a video projector wasn't tossed as garbage if you can just buy a cheap adapter and put it in a box next to the podium.
We have enough electronic waste as it is!
Yes, same; the real solution is Linux podium with an adapter in every room by default. But that's not happening anytime soon, lol.
Technically it's not the projector with the issue either, the podium is more or less a very fancy hub with a monitor built in. I feel like the adapter could just be built in if necessary, lol.
I have had windows users tell me that a projector needs a usb adapter. While HDMI worked perfectly fine and I even got crazy high resolution (after configuring it myself in KDE)
Vga-hdmi adapters are trivial
Linux noob here. Just upgraded hardware and reinstalled Windows and Linux on the gaming computers and even though I'm a complete Linux beginner, 9 out of 10 software issues were with windows! I couldn't believe a gazzilion dollar company with thousands of employees still couldn't get it right?
I reinstalled Windows 11 a while ago because of a software I struggled to get working on Linux (the adobe installer patches for WINE have since resolved that) and I had no idea how annoying the installation process is. You had to babysit it, and tell it your life's story. Not to mention the amount of times it asked me to sign up for MS 365 and OneDrive. In the end, it enabled OneDrive anyway, despite me telling it to sod off at least half a dozen times.
And that's just the install process. Using it is another beast entirely. Why do I need to accept a UAC prompt just to open a browser? Why does the browser need to update itself every time I boot the OS?
Why do I have to hunt all over the internet for basic stuff that should come with the OS itself? Even when I used an NVidia card I didn't have to faff around with some stupid third party software to handle drivers, it was just there. Sure it broke all the time because NVidia is a garbage company, but it was right there!
This is what happens when app devs make the installer instead of system doing via package manager
"Fun" fact: Windows is finally just now, in the year of our lord 2026, trying to release some updates as "live". As in not requiring reboot.
It's going better than you'd expect, but still far worse than they have any excuse for.
thats only if it actually downloads and installs. our enterprise windows installs like to take 5-10 attempts to actually get the software onto the computer. "Install failed. retry?"
Odd, most companies don’t have problems with them.
Cause the companies don’t install the updates, IT experts do. They do have problems with windows updates.
Also, not true.
Not exactly correct. They are releasing their hot patch service more broadly. These are updates that would normally require a restart no longer need to be restarted.
Just like Linux though, if you didn’t want to restart after updating you never really were forced to.
Didn't know we were still doing apt-get
I have a lot to learn
iirc, apt-get is the version to use in scripts. They keep the input & output consistent so that it won't break things.
Regular old apt is for humans to use at the command prompt, and that's what I use all the time.
How is apt better for humans?
Less options and it expects user input, so when you update and there's a changelog or warning, it shows it to you and you can read it. It doesn't continue because it thinks you're there reading it. The options and output are subject to change, so you don't want it in a script. Apt-get will always have the same options and expected output for automation purposes.
Apart from letting you read the changelog, I would call it less of a "good for humans" but "bad for scripting". Maybe it's just me, but less options was never a good quality in my books
Yeah why do I still see this everywhere
haven't used linux in decades but used to use aptitude over apt-get
Or if you're me, yay -Syu and wait 4 fucking hours (Because you barely ever remember to do it).
Just yay would suffice
I do update my Arch each time it boots. Like a tiny tradition to me.
Doing yay -Syu --noconfirm & shutdown whenever I turn my machine off has been the solution for me
You turn your machine off???
Once a month or so yes!
I kid. I reboot every couple weeks to save myself a bunch of headaches.
I reboot every time an update triggers mkinitcpio. Otherwise som kernel modules stop working.
Wait but that means your computer will stay on if the update fails, right?
It doesn't deserve the rest if it fails.
Wait but that means your computer will stay on if the update fails, right?
If it was && then the second command would only run if the first command was successful.
But @vodka@feddit.org wrote only one & which instead means the first command will run in the background and the second will execute at the same time... which does not seem like a good idea in this case 😅
Oh damn, yeah it was supposed to be &&, probably messed it up when arguing with the stupid phone keyboard adding spaces after symbols
Thank you!
Order wrong.
they need to make apt get upgrate that does both in the right order...
You are in luck because you can make this an alias (custom command) in your .bashrc file:
alias update='sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade'
You misspelled pacman -Syu
No, you misspelled zypper dup. But with enough time, you'll get there.
I kneel
That's a corporate propaganda that I can't stand for
Take my angry upvote
The only true answer
KDE Plasma recommends applying updates at reboot like Windows for stability. In fact, that is how it does them by default
KDE Plasma does what I tell it to
Sure, what I'm saying is the "windows way" of applying updates isn't bad and there's a reason why they do it
Feels aggressive sometimes
It can be configured but out of the boxes users need to have updates forced on them. Otherwise they never update.
Bah!!
Except that stability isn't the reason windows does its updates on restart, its a software limitation.
Windows doesn't have the ability to edit running files, it quite literally can't update the system without shutting everything down.
And what he's saying is it's his life. It's now or never. No one's gonna live forever. He just wants to live while he's alive. It's. His. Life!
jesse, what the fuck are you talking about
Someone who gets it 🥲
Wait, plasma does your system updates? I don't think it's an appropriate chain of commands
Discover is integrated with the rest of Plasma, so if you run your upgrades via Discover on Plasma, it'll use Plasma settings. The same goes if you update with the little button in Plasma's taskbar
Petty nitpick on my part, really, but I don't think of Discover as a part of Plasma.
Good call, very little is "part of" plasma strictly speaking
genini update my machine
Because I'm apparently a raging masochist
sorry, usage of this tool has been discontinued, please use [WORSE TOOL WITH DIFFERENT NAME]
(joking but not really, gemini-cli is going to the google graveyard, replaced by antigravity-cli that's basically the same, but in google's tradition it launches with less features and also it's not FOSS)
sudo zypper dup
This is the correct answer.
There's dozens of us!
A few dozens at least!!
[happy zypper noises]
For those who are confident in their system setup
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y && sudo apt autoremove -y
First thing I do on a new system using apt is aliasing this to "UpdateSystem" in .bashrc
sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt full-upgrade && sudo apt autopurge
You forgot -y
... && apt-get moo
I thought it was dist-upgrade
dist-upgrade has essentially been replaced by full-upgrade in the recent years.
It's the other way around, but yes, very much yes
As someone who works on Windows daily... this is so true. One of the things that really annoys me with Windows is being able to reliably do updates. Running any of the update stuff, seems more like a suggestion and if Windows deems your request worthy, it might SLOWLY do something.
Aaaand... you're on Debian, so Blender 4.0 just got added to the testing branch. (Blender 4.0 still haven't been tested for 168 hours of continuous running without touching it)
It's a good thing system packages (which should follow a conservative update approach if possible to guarantee system stability, unless hardware demands newer packages) and user applications (which you'd usually want to be most up-to-date) are increasingly isolated from each other and mostly able to follow their own schedules. Also improves security and such.
On Fedora live update is turned of by default with a warning saying updating without rebooting is not recommended. As a cautious noob, I left it as is. Too cautious?
Yeah, rebooting just makes sure that everything is using the new updated packages, so if you update then reboot you'll be golden
No. Fedora sometimes updates configs or packages (e.g. kernel) that require a reboot to take advantage of. If you're a linux veteran you can decide by yourself if or if not you need to reboot. But fedora wants to have a stable and smooth experience for all its users.
It would be nice if they could do the update with a single reboot. It is annoying to type LUKS password multiple times.
dnf update
apt has the added irk of being split into update/upgrade plus apt-get for scripts.
And the default apt search sucks lol
Every single time I’ve run upgrade on Debian, I’ve bricked my install. I’m sure I’m doing something wrong 😆
I'm probably a big newb, but on my headless Debian machines, major updates screw me up sometimes too.
- "Ah! All my updates can't be found on the server? Oh we're done with "Bo-Peep" and moving to "PotatoHead" now? Maybe I should be on the newsletter or something..."
- Change some sources in that one text file I gotta look up every time...
apt update && apt dist-upgrade"Oh, that's a lot of errors..."
I'm sure it's not that bad and I'm being dramatic but I do kinda appreciate my rolling OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for this reason lol. I feel like newbies would struggle with that major release upgrade process...
Watch out! People in here looove Debian for some reason
I love Debian ha!
Yeah, you better watch what you say; Debian Gang got eyes on you.
Yeah don't mess with the Debian gang. They'll take forever to reach you but when they eventually do, they'll be ready. XD
Haha Debian is really cool and I'm glad it's there! Definitely rock solid! Don't wanna throw any shade at their very important work. :)
...I'm just too goofy to update it properly sometimes. 😅 Skill issue lol.
Ironically I had numerous discussions with people claiming updates often break rolling distros like Arch, and I'm in the same boat as you - only ever had issues with major upgrades on Debian
Haha, I'm seriously wondering if there's not some kind of script we're supposed to run first that's like "Okay, new stable release now. Fetch and replace the latest repos!" Maybe in the desktop environment?
At least like with most things, Linux Mint I remember being so easy to upgrade to a whole new release right there in that universal update program. I don't have to worry about that tangling up anyone I set up with it. It actually feels exciting hahaha.
All that being said: Rolling or point release or whatever -- SET UP SNAPSHOTS. YOU'RE WELCOME. o_o hahaha
This (actually Ubuntu when it was still mostly Debian) is why I am using Tumbleweed now.
Small upgrades often seems to work more reliably for me.
In Windows it would be
winget upgrade -all
I'm pretty sure.
Winget update --all
But yes, this updates any packages distributed by Ms store and winget repos. As an IT professional, I love winget.
Winget is a step in the right direction... but man it is SO SLOW. If PowerBI Desktop has an update, it is actually taking me 20+ minutes to update a handful of apps.
I just like that it can be scripted and run during off hours.
My first introduction to winget as a sysadmin was horrible. Why Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make winget reliant on the user environment still baffles me. Why on earth would they require admin rights for some commands if you need to have logged into the system once?! Even the user created for LAPS does not have that requirement!
Even getting it to run through a service on system level requires you to find the nondescript directory of the executable (which may or may not he the same on other devices!) To get basic functionality going. But even with the --ignore-unknown flag (because it is not able to determine the version of packages when run through a service) winget will refuse to update without a user environment.
Which will try to update all 3 apps that are available via winget. It will break one of them. It has 50% chance of bonking some drivers.
More than 3 apps. https://winget.run/
But Window's software incompatibility doesn't change anything.
4315 packages
It's not nothing, and the effort is commendable. Def more than three. Dare I say it's even more than five.
Yet, in a grand scheme of things, it's indistinguishable from three.
If NT is given as much time as the Linux kernel has had to mature then I'm sure they'll have more packages built for it over the years.
What does this even mean? Windows as an operating system has existed since 1985, and NT has been around since 1993. Linux initial release was 1991.
Microsoft has had all the time in the world.
If people use it then eventually it’ll have more than 4k packages for it.
Install-Module PSWindowsUpdate
That will install the module required for Windows Update command line
Still doesnt update the system
choco upgrade all
Not a built-in, of course, but chocolatey gets you Linux-like package manager behavior on Windows. With it you can run headless software installs and automatically update software. It's great for remote/VM management.
winget upgrade --all
scoop update
I used chocolatey for a while on windows. I did like it, but due to some of the fussiness with it I found it was just better to put up with crappy .exe files
Apt-get is unnecessary nowadays, just use apt, especially for simple commands like this.
Yay
paru
sudo apt upgrade -U -y
I autorun paru -Syyu while my computer is in the process of booting up /S
nixos-rebuild switch
going to nix from another distro like the leap from going from windows to linux
I'd rather switch back to Windows than try NixOS again. The immutable structure was far too rigid for me.
I run an Ubuntu server and I make the history keep a lot of entries so I remember which files I changed
It shouldn't have to be like this
It’s all fun and games until you one day you see:
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
And it’s complaining about packages you’ve never heard of before.
sudo apt autoremove && sudo apt autopurge -y
..and while it's running I'll check my email and post something on lemmy!
edit: literally just did this to make sure it would work. Tbh it was a little balky.
sudo guix system reconfigure /etc/config.scm
Then you don’t even have to worry about what happens when an evil monkey unplugs your computer in the middle of an update.
I have no artistic skills so freebie: Arch is like Russian roulette where the odds are good but there is still a non-zero chance some update is going to shit the bed. I don't even know how to convey that in meme form either.
he ran it in the wrong order 💔✌️
Plus he couldbhave just used 'apt' one command.
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y && flatpak update -y
topgrade
It's clear why many Windows users won't switch to Linux, when people show them they'd need to use strange IT tools to use it. While, annoying, Windows doesnt need you to be an IT nerd. Linux doesn't either, but to people outside of the Linux bubble, this is how it gets presented. That Windows update sure looks easier than some manual hack.
apt is NOT a manual hack
To a non IT person who hasn't heard of apt, needing to start the update manually, and needing type some magic words in precisely, is the worst it can get.
Then windows says "Undoing Changes" because its shit software doesn't work
You've heard of archinstall, now get ready for
archupdate
(it's an alias I made for "pacman -Syu")
topgrade -y
You're welcome.
The user interface on the left and the command prompt on the right does kinda highlight a barrier to mass Linux adoption.
if we want more people on Linux let's normalize not having to use the command line for everything.
The left side says "Updates are happening, whether you want to or not" and the right side says "'Give me some updates, please"
agreed, but this does not address what I said
That is not the barrier. Most people stick to defaults and don't know how to install an OS. When any person switches, they will try to learn an adapt. If it is a shitty experience, they will switch back to defaults. Updating your system through command line is not a shitty experience.
Some of the gen zers I come across can't even double click an icon on PC.
There's no reason not to have an update button somewhere.
Absolutely but it is not easy. It needs to have several layers of abstraction by hiding what packages are being updated and auto approving themselves without prompting for password. There should be an automatic rollback mechanism in place in case an update goes bad. Some programs will need to auto-update themselves as users would expect like google chrome, firefox — which I don’t think we currently have other than steam. Otherwise if a person skips an update, they will leave their system vulnerable to the security bugs in browsers.
That is not the barrier.
who said there is only one barrier?
they will try to learn an[d] adapt
you will, sure, but no not everyone will. think less on tech savvy people and more on those that know that "the Internet is the big blue e when I turn on the computer (their monitor)"
those people outnumber us tech savvy individuals at least two-to-one and they deserve an OS that is easier to use then memorizing command line commands
Only tech savvy people will actually install an OS. Unless you put a “Install OS” button on the keyboard most people will never switch. So they will probably never use Linux because the idea of switching defaults is scary because it is not “officially supported” by the manufacturer. Using the terminal is not a big deal. Most people can learn and adapt very easily, it’s not rocket science. The official defaults mindset is a barrier.
If we want Linux to grow, we need it to be installed by default on major hardware.
deserve an OS that is easier to use
Mint, Zorin, Ubuntu. They exist and have existed for a long time. They simply are not the default OS on any major piece of hardware.
pacman "See you"
I just post memes bud. Occasionally make them, but more often just repost them.
🤦♂️
apt-get dist-upgrade
sudo apt full-upgrade -U -y
Should be all you need.
Does nothing - Bootc based/nixos
Another low-effort, inaccurate meme. A true comparison would be if you replaced the first screenshot with an image of someone clicking the update button.
I don’t mind criticising Windows but go after the genuine reasons for moving to Linux. No spyware, no AI forced on you etc.
The true comparison is someone getting into work at 7am to work on a project due for a meeting at 10am and two of those hours are waiting for a mandatory Windows update to install.
I think they got rid of the mandatory updates, tho, largely because the updates were breaking the OS...
but anyway, I think the meme might be pointing at the issue of consent.
why cant people type anymore?
Not everybody feels like memorizing undiscoverable magic phrases that might not be in a language they speak.
you will remember an entire language that has a spelling system so bad, that spelling words correctly is a BROASCASTED competition
Then you'd also be pressed to show the same for Linux.
The only two reasons Linux updates are represented as terminal commands are that:
- Most distros have several DEs that come with different app managing software, so you naturally don't have a universal "update Linux" button
- Typing a command is simply faster
But in principle, app stores coming with most major Linux DEs can absolutely update your system at the push of a button.
Some distros, like Fedora, even allow you to update your UEFI straight from the app store. How's that to you, Windows?
I prefer Sudo Nala upgrade. It pulls updates before upgrading and does parallel downloads, saturating my 2GB download.
"why won't the screen turn on?"
Why is the screen black after the login screen for multiple minutes, after which it continues to function as expected and shows the DE like everything is fine??
transactional-update :)
Ew
sudo apt install --only-upgrade --no-install-recommends "^vivaldi" "^firefox ^nano"
Until Google neglects to update Google Earth and your entire system update gets hung on a no-digest error so you have to either uninstall Google Earth or run a custom update command that skips it every single time. 😩
sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
sudo zypper dup
Apt is the wrong example here.
Me: update && upgrade
Apt: ##### 25%
Apt: dialogue with kernel news
Apt: ###### 30%
Apt: dialogue for reconfiguring abc
Apt: dialogue for reconfiguring xyz
Apt: want me to overwrite your critical config? yes/no/show differences
Apt: ################## 100%
Me: reboot
PC: No Display Manager, no wifi, emergency shell
Honestly, the only troubles I have had beside non-working Nvidia drivers was the dependency-resolver taking forever before aborting due to too many unresolved dependencies. full-resolver takes care of that.
Dialogues? Yes to inform you that some services won't work until a restart & you are currently using them (e.g. X)
Warning about overwriting config files? Only if you are an advanced enough user to have modified them by hand, and if the update requires a new base configuration.
never happenwd to me
It can happen to others too. When I used Raspbian, two times (iirc) the upgrade process to the new major version broke while installing libc and so the system was bricked afterwards.
I think I read somewhere that the recomended upgrade process is to reinstall the system. How bad must updates be implemented in this case?
This never happens to me when running distros based on Debian stable or Ubuntu, unless it's time for the major version update every 0.5-3 years. Even then, these days everything just keeps working after the reboot. Issues only really arise when you start messing with Debian sid, testing or frankendebian/frankenubuntu.
only an issue if you CANNOT READ PAST A FIFTH GRADE LEVEL
The irony that your comment will never reach its intended audience
So Debian/Ubuntu still can't into auto update?
Lol, apt changes your system in place and is pretty likely to break it.
Atomic upgrades are fast and reliable.
But windows updates break FAR less than a messy package based distro does, especially if you actually have package changes (i.e. not a stable distro, or a version upgrade)
boiling water burns me but I still use it to cook
You use a water cooker or an electric stove I guess, also you probably use a pot and dont heat it up in your hands
Or something, that metaphor makes no sense