Mormons outraged after Hegseth military policy no longer counts LDS as Christian
10d 8h ago by lemmy.world/u/MicroWave in news from www.independent.co.uk
Mormon leaders, military veterans and elected officials reacted with anger to a new Department of Defense policy that does not consider The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be a Christian religion as part of a wider effort to cut down the U.S. military’s list of recognized faiths.
“The Pentagon’s decision to list The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints apart from other Christian faiths is wrong and needs to be corrected,” Republican Rep. Mike Kennedy, of heavily Mormon Utah, wrote on X on Sunday.
The in-group just got a little bit smaller
There's plenty of great videos on how this works in fascist circles by people, such as Innuendo Studios:
https://youtu.be/5Luu1Beb8ng?is=YM8DFDYAOYQRNjrn
He has a whole series on the alt-right. Wonderful analysis.
One of my favorite YouTube series. If you’ve got some time, do yourself a favor and watch all of them. There is a playlist on the channel.
Are they YouTube only?
They're also on Nebula (paid though)
Thank you! I have nebula. I get in the habit of only going to the four or so things I watch, I need to browse around some more.
Not sure, but that’s the only place I’ve seen those videos.
Someone else noted that they're on Nebula.
That's how it always goes with fascist and bigots. The in-group gets smaller with each victory until the in-group has no allies anymore.
Well you gotta have heirarchies, otherwise somebody might be promoted for being good at their job
This isn't even a hierarchy at this point. Not when the goal is to completely exclude the out-group.
A lot a bit. Remember the huge data centers in Utah for spying and government data storage? That's all staffed by strait laced mormons who can pass a drug test.
First they came for...
my funky underwear?
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Damn, came here to say the same thing.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Edit: Aaaand the gif didn't work. Great.
Your edit made me laugh, so task failed successfully? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Haha, I'll take it!
But just imagine that it actually shows the gif from George of the Jungle where they throw their heads back and laugh 😉
You mean like this?
Edit: it worked!!!
Aaaaah, for fucks sake 🫠 What's your secret...?
Fascists shocked to find themselves on the wrong end of the stick.
shocked that they are not right wing enough. if you are not evangelical enough you arnt invited.
Guess what, self-described "good Christian"s of America, you're going to get kicked out of the in-group as soon as it's convenient for the MAGA Republican party.
Your space unicorn isn't the true space unicorn.
The true space unicorn was foretold by reading tales of it off golden tablets in a hat
The true space unicorn was hailed as a leopluridon
Charlie!
No, you can't see the gold tablets, they were taken back to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow by the unicorn's messenger leprechaun. Trust me bro, they were definitely there.
Did you know that Mormons are actually preferentially given security clearances, since the United States Constitution is one of the foundational documents of their faith? Do you realize how many people with positions near nuclear sites, NSA datacenters, and CIA operations these bumblefucks are aggravating?
Did you know that Mormons are actually preferentially given security clearances, since the United States Constitution is one of the foundational documents of their faith?
I didn't know that about LDS folks. Being a founding document of their faith, they must really be in support of the Constitution and would oppose all who would desecrate the document and its principles of law and liberty.
"According to Fox News’ 2024 election exit poll, among the Latter-day Saints surveyed 64% supported Trump and 32% supported Vice President Kamala Harris." source
...oh, nevermind.
Religious zealots are not exactly known for their reading comprehension when it comes to their holy texts.
Or anything else
I mean zealots are known precisely for their lack of comprehension, nuance, etc. They're mostly emotion driven creatures.
They understand it in the same regard as the people handing out the clearances, nothing to worry about.
For several years, ending ~2005, the guy in charge of security clearances was literally rubber stamping them. Literally anyone who got the paperwork on his desk got one.
Every journalist should be trying at all times.
This is because most Mormons go on missions to other countries and know a second language from doing so. Its an asset to the government to have traveled people who speak multiple languages after all especially those from a religious background who fall in line easily and are usually conservative.
Yep, and they don't tend to be addicted to any substances or gambling. There are many reasons. The point being that, for one reason or another, many of the intelligence services and highest-clearance positions are filled with Mormons, and the government just told them that they aren't part of the club anymore.
I am sure that after some suitable donations to dear leader Trump, this obvious erroneous matter will be sorted.
They have more than enough money. Actually I wonder which church is the wealthiest. My money is on either Scientology or Mormonism.
I'd guess the catholic church has significantly more wealth than either of those.
It's Mormons. There's also a ton of them at the federal level too.
I dunno, this list shows multiple organizations that fall under the Catholic church with wealth in the 10s to 100s of billions.
If you're talking monetary/liquid wealth then it is probably the Mormons, but the catholic church is much larger and older. They have been amassing wealth for a very long time. Though, functionally it is irrelevant. They both have the ability to wield massive political influence.
The Vatican claims to have more gold in its vaults than has ever officially been mined out of the earth, and considering how much they stole from the Aztecs, it's possible they aren't even lying.
Mormons also own an insane amount of real estate.
it's not just all the gold, jewels, real estate and all the holy relics. the Catholic church also owns tonnes of priceless art. True masterworks that would fetch hundreds of millions at auction. the Mormons dont even know where they misplaced the golden tablets that joseph smith received from God.
Hundreds of milions? They need hundreds of bilions
yeah they have a massive collection of "priceless art amd artifacts", if they were to sell everything they would net 100s of billions. some artworks alone would fetch over 100 million.
Mormons became the richest church around 15 years ago.
The catholics are far far behind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_religious_organizations
I already linked that list. And according to it just the catholic church of Germany may be as nearly wealthy as the entire Mormon church.
It was the fuck aroundest of times.
It was the find outest of times.
yeah we're like three quarters of the way through that Niemöller poem now
I wish Mormons would be outraged over something that mattered, like the sexual abuse in their church, or the fact their church supporting mormon thieves and scammers across the country, who have stolen over a billion dollars from their fellow Americans.
While sexual abuse does occur in the church, the trick of having the church operate as it does is to catch predators. Similar to how Donald Trump is the orange cop-in-chief, because God and the FBI knows who offered him what.
Forgive and move on like a good Mormon.
Dum-dum-dumdum-dum
They're not Christian, lol. Too funny.
I mean they literally aren't, it's like saying Muslims are Christian because they view Jesus as a prophet along with Muhammed.
They made up their own fan fiction for Christianity. Someone needs to let them know their fanfic isn't canon.
They literally are Christian, which is the belief in Jesus as the son of God. Full stop. Any other definition is intentionally designed by certain Christians to delegitimize other versions of Christianity.
The biblical canon was determined by several committees hundreds of years after Christianity was founded, and only explicitly formalized for Catholics in 1545! Heck the canon is STILL not fully agreed upon in Christian denominations. It’s clearly a terrible indicator for what defines a Christian.
Moreover, just because one religion decided to add to that canon does not inherently stop them from being Christian. It’s ALL made up, a little extra bullshit doesn’t make it any different.
I mean, in their canon, Jesus visited America right? Is it the same Jesus, fundamentally?
Yes, Jesus, son of God, born to the Virgin Mary, died on the cross, resurrected. Then only AFTER his resurrection he was supposed to have visited the Americas very briefly.
It’s basically equivalent to Jesus appearing to Saul rather than his secret vacation in America.
I mean, not that there’s any evidence at all for anything in the Book of Mormon (quite the contrary) but that’s not the part that would be incompatible canonically.
i vaguely remember him. played outfield for the giants and astros, right?
No, no…he’s the one who came back and kept a low profile as a record sales clerk, only to be eventually recognized then subsequently whisked up in his sudden stardom.
Christians arguing about definitions and who should have the power to impose their pet view 🍿
The Son of God who is fully one with God Himself, the second person of the Trinity, which is one God in three persons.
A ton of the earliest writings in the church were dealing with explaining the Trinity, and nearly every time for the first several hundred years that the Christian church found it important enough to get together and publicly denounce someone as a heretic, it was because of denying some part of that equation (either the Trinity itself, or Jesus as fully God, or Jesus as fully God and one with God the Father). The LDS chucks it out in favor of their own weird "nah, actually everyone's kinda a god, that's what's up with Jesus." A history dive on "begotten, not made" and the Nicene Creed is helpful here, comparing it with LDS doctrine on the nature of Jesus and on the end times.
That makes them heretics to orthodox Christianity (for denying that Jesus is not "one with the Father", all homousia) for a similar reason to why Islam views Christians as heretics (because Islam views the Trinity as an assertion of multiple gods, counter to "Allah is one").
A lot of people see a sort of "X derived from Y" and assume based on lack of any further digging that X and Y are interchangeable, when the very derivation from should call to attention that there was a fork in the road where beliefs diverged. Some of those forks are more divergent from one another than others; Presbyterians and Baptists have more in common than Presbyterians and Catholics, and those two groups themselves have more in common than Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, and still Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have much more in common than LDS and any Christian denomination you could pick from a hat.
You cannot pretend orthodox Christianity is all of Christianity. That’s ridiculous.
I don't have to. The Christian church formalized it in 325AD. Joey Smith just wasn't creative enough to come up with a new heresy. He moved too quick to "okay so let's do multiple wives and also since my wife is objecting to that God says she's no longer a prophet and is actually a false shepherd" when he should've been doing his homework to make his con more credible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
EDIT: I think maybe you're confused? I'm not asserting that the uppercase-O Orthodox Church is all of Christianity. I'm using the normal plain meaning of "orthodox", which is "adhering to the fundamental principles held to be true by a religious group." All Christians believe that Jesus is part of the Trinity and is fully God, because that's what Christian means, in the same way that I can assert that all watercraft are things that can travel in water. The LDS faith is not Christian because their cult leader prophet decided stupidly to pick the defining trait of Christianity as a thing he wanted to change.
The Nicene Creed is NOT the definition of Christianity.
There have always (and I mean always) been sects of Christianity that reject core points in that. Even the most cursory delves into religious history makes that painfully obvious.
If the best you've got is "the globally-accepted definition of Christianity that was agreed upon immediately after its founding millennia ago by the closest adherents of Christianity, and was formally codified within the first couple hundred years only so as to explicitly name disagreement with this definition as specifically not being Christianity, and which was only ever disputed in mid-1800s Utah by a random dude who wanted to legitimize his brand-new polygamy cult by pretending it's part of Christianity is not the definition of Christianity"
...I don't think you're in as strong a position as you seem to think.
Please, even a brief cursory search proves that Mormons aren’t the only Christians that denounce the Nicene Creed. If you aren’t even willing to do a simple Wikipedia search to verify your facts, this conversation isn’t worth continuing. Have a good day!
So you mean eastern orthodox?
Because the roman catholic changed the nicene creed around 1000 AD
That's an additive change, not a conflicting one.
What you're saying is like "the US amended its Constitution to give women the right to vote, so you can't claim they grant the right to free speech." The fact that the 19th amendment came after the 1st amendment does not mean the 19th amendment disagrees with the 1st amendment; rather, they address two different subjects, both of which independently needed fixing by addressing them in a foundational document.
If anything, the Filioque, as I understand it, strengthens what I'm saying, because it was a change to say that the Holy Spirit proceeds not just from the Father, but from the Father and the Son (Jesus), since they're one.
That contradicts Mormon teaching even harder, since Mormon teaching is that Jesus is a distinct, separate god, and is not "one" with the Father (Yahweh) in the way that Jesus himself said he was ("I and my Father are one" in John 10; "whoever has seen me has seen the Father" in John 14) or that the rest of the Christian New Testament teach (as distinct from the Mormon editions, which have been changed based on Joseph Smith's "visions" that all existing manuscripts were somehow secretly corrupted from some hypothetical original text that has never been found nor referenced in any writings prior to Smith coming up with the idea).
Ok, thanks
Nope. I mean the name is there, but this is so easily traced to the grift that one has to really do some mental gymnastics to say it's even a religion much less a Christian one.
How often did Jesus teach about how dark skin was a curse from God?
The bible was a building block to the grift of Smith, that is all.
You’re twisting definitions. “Religion” is a widely applicable term, and just because somebody is doing something bad with a religion doesn’t invalidate its taxonomy.
No I am not twisting definitions. I am saying it's easy to see that this one has nothing to do with the religious premise it jumped on and everything to do with grift.
They might all be grifts, but this one is explicitly easy to see that they just jumped someone else's train. And therefore it is nothing to do with the other various sects.
How often did Jesus teach about how dark skin was a curse from God?
Way more often than mainstream Christianity wants to admit. It’s literally the root of white supremacy…but that’s not a popular subject among the modern Christians.
I would love for you to quote some scripture backing that up
Start here and scroll down to the Christianity subtitle. It starts with the curse of Cain. I was taught this growing up, and it’s the basis of white Christians sidelining brown and black people within the church. Also, remembering that Christianity is a white religion that was pushed on slaves in America…and then sidelined outside of it by the same damn people!
Yeah, so did I. Jesus never said anything about the mark of cain.
Correct. It’s in Genesis. The common mistake a lot of Christian apologists make is to simply dismiss the Old Testament unless it serves them (gay references).
How often did Jesus teach about how dark skin was a curse from God?
That's what you responded to and you just admitted your original answer was bullshit. They didn't say "Christianity" they said "Jesus."
People dismiss a lot of the Old Testament because it's largely irrelevant since Jesus "died for our sins" and we stopped paying attention to a lot of the laws from back then like wearing clothes of many different types of fibers or men shaving their beards.
As someone who was raised Christian but is an atheist now, but even with all the crazy bullshit I dealt with in the sect I was raised in, the mark of Cain was never connected to race.
But it's dismissed because a lot of the Old Testament literally doesn't matter now. Modern Christian's don't sacrifice lambs to God, because Jesus was the sacrifice for everyone. It's not dismissed by apologists, it's also dismissed by many mainline Christian sects (Catholicism respects the Old Testament more than protestant churches). The Old Testament is the history, and is similar to the Jewish texts it was pulled from, so only the New Testament really matters in the larger picture of Christianity.
I’m not trying to deceive anyone here. I’m also an atheist after being raised evangelical. I allow carry it further in that I’m anti-religion.
I dismiss the entire Bible, not just the OT.
Look man if you want to reddit atheist this shit so you can feel like the most atheist atheist that ever atheist'd, find someone else to act superior to.
You literally lied when you answer the question (the teachings of jesus isn't the same as the whole bible and you fucking know it), and now you're doubling down your answer even though now you're saying you dismiss it all... but earlier it was Christian apologists who dismissed it? Make up your fucking mind and stop jerking yourself off.
The reason I hate other atheists is they do the same shit Christians do by putting themselves on a pedestal for being clever enough to figure out there isn't a god like there aren't fucking millions of us who figured out throughout fucking human history you're not fucking special. We're no better than animals, we're just a bunch of monkeys flinging shit at each other, and we're not more "rational" or "logical" than Christians we're beasts of emotion as well.
So take the attitude and toss it.
What the fuck are you even talking about?! Fuck off.
Girls! You're BOTH going to hell!
Eyyo. Drink some water and have a lie down buddy. You are getting way too worked up over some text on a screen.
You seem to be confusing Jesus and Christianity
The scripture itself does not in any way imply that the mark of Cain was dark skin and your link doesn't argue otherwise.
It is/was a commonly held belief among Christians for quite some time, and the link explains that and which scripture it derived from.
I'm ex-mormon. They firmly consider themselves christian. They believe in Christ as a savior who died for our sins, etc etc, where a lot of sects considered non-christian see him as a prophet, not a savior/divine entity. There are a lot of arguments about the trinity and if considering christ a separate being still counts, but in the simplest sense, they kinda are christian. The bar shifts depending on who you ask though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity The section on the trinity is an interesting read.
Though I should make it clear, I don't believe in any god. It's all wishful thinking to me.
Personally, I think the whole heavenly father and heavenly mother being Mormons from a different planet as well as the lack of belief in the Trinity thing makes mormonism fundamentally different then "old and new testament only" Christianity.
But on the other hand, they can call themselves what ever they want, it doesn't make their cult correct or their god real.
Tell Disney. Jesus is a Marvel property, he’s met Howard the Duck. The Mouse takes IP infringement very seriously.
They believe in salvation through Christ though so…
They believe that Jesus was God Himself (not another god, or a dude who became a god, but the one God Himself) who came down to die so that humanity could, depending on Christus Victor or Penal Substitutionary Atonement, either be saved from the cursing effects of death or else have their sins atoned?
Or do they instead believe that Jesus, an entirely-separate god that the God and some other "Divine Mother" gave birth to, died to pave a path to becoming a god yourself?
Mormons don't believe in the Trinity doctrine.
Neither do Unitarians.
Both got cut by Evangelical Pete.
He almost certainly holds them to be heretics.
Its probably not all the extra fan fiction... its probably the heresy... vast majority of self identified Christians in the world belong to some kind of a Church or Sect or Denomination that holds to the Trinity.
I mean, I want to hold Trinity, too
They made up their own fan fiction for Christianity. Someone needs to let them know their fanfic isn't canon.
Not defending Mormonism here, but is Christianity not just Judaism fanfic? And is Judaism not a fanfic of earlier religions?
No point in talking about "canon" regarding religion, it's just stories
But the Islamic religion is not derived from Christianity, while re LSD is
Actually LSD is derived from lysergic acid. LDS is derived from Christianity though.
LSD was derived by Albert Hoffmann and has nothing to do with an imaginary sky daddy,
LSD is derived from an obvious scam. And very stupid one at that.
Like every religion. How is LDS somehow worse than your regular “satan told me” or “I am going to heaven” christian nonsense? It’s a completely arbitrary distinction. If those folks consider themselves christians, or followers of Christ, who is entitled to deny their identity as such?
Like every religion. How is LDS somehow worse than your regular “satan told me” or “I am going to heaven” christian nonsense?
It's not, they are all equally ridiculous, some more so.
It’s a completely arbitrary distinction.
Sure
If those folks consider themselves christians, or followers of Christ, who is entitled to deny their identity as such?
Literally everyone else on the planet has that right. You could even say it is a God given right if you wish.
And why is that?
Huh... No. Literally no.
They took an already silly thing, which at least had the benefit of being so far removed in time it leaves space for doubt about what it claims, and then piled a bunch of complete utter nonsense on top of it.
And worse of all, utter nonsense created by a con artist who couldn't even keep his own story straight, like when the original "translation" of the text only he could translate (lol) was hidden from him, he just made up a completely different one because of course he did, he was a con artist.
How is believing jesus christ is the only son of god and dying for mans sins not Christian? I have never understood the ignorance behind LDS not being Christian. Literally every version of Christianity has it's own fanfic bullshit built in, that's why there're hundreds of denominations and not one
As if Christianity itself wasn't a hugely retconned Jewish fic
Who copied their homework from the Phoenicians.
isn't each abrahamic religion just a sequel to the previous one that's been written by new authors?
Like I can accept that the bible is kind of a mess due to it being written so long ago that historical record of the whole thing is fractured, but generally, it's accepted that a figure named Jesus probably did exist, even if he wasn't really the son of God. Through all the translations and lost languages and lost history, mainline Christianity has a pretty good excuse that even if the stories aren't actually true, they're rooted in social folktales that were generally accepted as true in early Christian theology, in a time period that was much much much much more superstitious than the modern era.
Whereas, come the fuck on, Jesus visiting America is made up whole cloth in a semi-modern era by a guy who should have known the fuck better. That's not a social folktale, that's just one single motherfucker making shit up on his own and calling it good.
lol, I see. you're willing to entertain the whole zombie jesus story but the book of mormon is ridiculous and impossible.
honestly who even cares? I'm sure this will get corrected by hegseth because the lds have been loyal and obedient to trump and the republicans in power are only pretending to be christians.
I'm not willing to entertain the zombie jesus story, I just recognize that one has actual history behind it and that early human civilization history helps explain it and that nothing explains this dumbfuck just making shit up.
Do you think Christ is your imaginary friend?
If so, you are a Christmas.
so brave of you to save merry christmas i cried
They notably did not say "merry". ;-)
Why are they WAGING WAR on christianity by NOT SAYING THE THING CORRECTLY???
Pete gets his theology from Chick tracts.
"HAW HAW HAW!" 😈
Mormons should use their wealth and connections to sue the DOD into reversing Hegseth's policies, and do so alongside other injured parties.
And as soon as Catholics cease to be useful, they’re out, too
The evangelicals already hate Catholics and say they’re not “true” Christians because they worship Mary.
Which is, quite frankly, an argument that holds some weight if you're concerned about splitting hairs regarding religious purity (and it's an argument that's been going on for a very long time). I won't be surprised if we wind up with a schism and official American Christian Church out of all this.
The lord saviour himself Jesus Homelander Donald will lead you all to the promised land.
Eats popcorn as one camp of fairy tale believers questions the legitimacy of the other.
I'm honestly more surprised that JWs and Christian Scientists are listed under "Christian" than that Mormons aren't. All of those are considered cults, rather than legitimate denominations, by mainstream Christianity (Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant).
I mean they are all cults, just ones society finds acceptable for some reason.
Wasn’t it the Mormons whose founder got some glasses from an angel, which allowed him to read the bible? Well, that is what I call a fairytale.
And what do you call the Bible then?
If you read the Bible and take everything literally, I cannot help you. I assume, however, that you are well aware that certain parts were intended for different audiences or types of believers. Some passages convey a different message than, for example, the Quran or the Torah. As for the meaning of secularisation and the distinction between „religia“ and „ecclesia“, I'll leave it to you to look it up on Wikipedia or another reliable source.
Nah I'm good, I'd rather spend my time learning about shit that's actually real
No prob with that. Keep just in mind that the Bible, especially the New Testament, is to a certain part a parable.
The parables are the stories that Jesus tells in order to make a point or to teach people about something.
It's very clear when something happening in the Bible is a parable or not.
If I recall the original definition of the modern cult vs religion division is just what ever the British crown recognized as legitimate. Lol
Pepsi is a cult. America is a cult. A cult is just a type of network structure around a centralized cultural mission.
Mormonism is definitely a cult, zero bones about it. But the emotional attachment--and the subsequent damage--is very very real.
Lmao. I love fascist infighting
Ha trump administration showing favoritism. That not new btw.
Mormons thought they were white lmao
.. as you sow, so shall you reap ..
What does it mean when a religion is officially recognised by the military? Do they get extra time for prayers or something?
It's actually primarily for counseling and emotional care purposes, lifestyle accommodations, as well as planning for the worst in the event that someone is killed in action.
If you get shot and die, they need to be able to know how to treat your body after death.
They really just want to stop service members from putting "Jedi Knight" on their dog tag under the religion section. Not joking lol
As a deployment manager that made dog tags for a few years, we didn't care. Jedi, Pastafarian, Dudist, whatever. You are doing your country a service that most people can't really comprehend. I'll put whatever you want in that section as long as the other stuff that actually matters is correct.
Literally everyone but the youngest of children can comprehend it. War and service is about as old and traditional to humanity as you can fucking get.
Not a soul on this planet has grown up not being taught endlessly about war and duty. Even if it's sanitized out the fucking ass. The majority have also been directly effected by it one way or another. Loss of life, mental well being, home, food, or even mass displacement. For themselves or their loved ones.
Short of bread and beer you don't get fucking anything more ubiquitous than military service to the human experience.
Its a fucking insult to even consider someone out side of the youngest children might not be able to comprehend how far reaching and devastating. Military service can be.
If you think the average person can understand what it is like to give up ultimate control of your life in 6-year chunks, I have some bad news for you.
People in the military are bound by law to do whatever is necessary for the mission regardless of the cost to them. For over 20 years, I lived moment to moment assuming that with no notice, I could be sent to the other side of the globe without my immediate family. During my time in, I was deployed to a remote country, in a war zone, with no notice, while my wife dealt with the consequences. During that time, I had very limited contact with my spouse, and what time I did have was regularly interrupted with literal attacks that could have killed me.
Beyond my experience there, my spouse had to deal with the fact that I would occasionally just leave in the middle of a call, because rocket attack.
So, pardon me if I am skeptical of your claim that most people can understand that I now drive past litter on the side of the road cautiously because it might be a bomb. And that is just the start of the weird differences I have experienced transitioning from military life into being a civilian.
Soon they'll be calling them Lessmons.
honestly a bit surprised he'd start a fight with the FBI like that
Both the LDS and Scientology put a ton of work into getting their members into federal service for... reasons.
I never heard that about Scientologists, but I definitely heard that about Mormons. Those foreign languages come in handy in the foreign service, FBI, etc.
And the CIA!
And the NSA!
When you accept that others rights can be taken away, you must also accept that your own rights can be taken away.
If you accept that groups can be excluded from society, you must also accept that your group may one day be excluded.
If you accept that might makes right, you must accept that one mightier than yourself will one day come along.
If you live by the sword, you will likely die by the sword.
Idk how many times this has to happen throughout history before people act learn from it.
Not just that, their society is fiercely hierarchical, so by its very nature there is already always someone directly above them, and this particular movement has already shown that they don't see them as equals.
In the wise words of Jello Biafra:
In the real Fourth Reich you'll be the first to go
Dum-da-dum-dum-dum!
LDS is Christian the way a pineapple is an apple. Petey can go fuck himself though.
One just has golden plates and the other doesn't. Pretty much the same thing.
It really isn't. The amount of control they exercise over their congregants and money they require to stay in good standing is astronomical compared to lost other christian denominations. Their propaganda, investment and political arms make them the biggest existential threat to North American democracy and culture as a centralized religious organization.
Not to mention the basis of the faith is that Jesus came to America and your skin color determines if your ancestors were sinners. That's cuckoo bananas even by christian standards.
Yes well I was really just trying to be funny (poorly) I must admit, good points I'm glad you stated though.
The amount of control they exercise over their congregants and money they require to stay in good standing is astronomical compared to lost other christian denominations.
Wait til you hear about how greedy the Catholic Church was before & during the Reformation. New denomination, same religion. This is just how faiths inevitably evolve.
Also Mormonism—though I hate using this aphorism because it’s not even true—is as American as apple pie, there’s really no threat to be spoken of here in the usual sense of the word. It’s existed for more or less 200 years now, subsisting along with every other facet of its surrounding culture. Mormonism is American society, it wouldn’t have become so widespread without it.
This could impact a lot of Trump votes if not corrected too. I don't think even he's so dumb to alienate such a large voter base.
I wish! I feel like they'll vote Republican until one of their "prophets" tells them heavenly father told them otherwise.
I wonder what the officially recognized denomination of Christian will be when they keep cutting.
Southern Baptist probably. They kinda seem to be the root of stereotypical American Evangelicalism, and each church is self governing with no central authority.
if only trump knew, tell comrade trump there's been a mistake, good president bad secdef etc
That's probably going to be the reaponse:
Love to see a military leader who self-inflicts more wounds than the enemy. Dipshit.
Populist leopard administration purity tests everyone leaving their voters realizing that the administration doesn't consider them fit to be part of their society except as tasty tasty face treats. More at 11.
than the
enemyvictims
oh I did not realize they were out to. uniatrians, bahai, and lds. I mean a lot more including wiccans
By Catholic Doctrine, LDS are not considered Christian for several reasons. Many Protestant denominations also require Mormons to be re-baptized if they convert because Mormons do not believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity.
Christianity is an inherently monotheistic religion that acknowledges one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so for those who don't practice Trinitarian baptism, it is pretty difficult to square that circle.
It would be more accurate to describe Mormonism as "Christian-derived". LDS even acknowledge they consider revelation to be ongoing (as in, there could be other Gospels that appear at any moment).
The best analogy is "Christianity fanfic", but its difficult to state that without being more pejorative than intended.
Not recognizing the trinity is a thing a variety of sabbatarian type of protestants.
The obvious flaw in Christian Nationalism - what kind of Christian? It's such an easy way to turn MAGA in on itself. ention the Pope and they'll fight among themselves. Billboards in Salt Lake City informing them of this decision. Every time Trump wheels out some spiritual con artist be sure to mention their denomination. This isn't hard.
what kind of Christian?
Sort of, except they're holding the guns and will shoot each other for praising God slightly differently.
What did they think would happen?
I mean, they voted for this. A massive amount of Mormons vote R.
I can ask them, remember how we literally had this conversation a few years ago? I don't expect to get an honest answer though.
LDS is one of the richest organized religions in the US, they are also one of the biggest sources of insane right wing propaganda online. They are almost singularly responsible for purity culture and the Maha movement. They fund a massive amount of influencers online who don't explicitly identify themselves as Mormon, but push people towards their cult and other Mormons recognize the dog whistles.
Yeah, dumbasses, what did you think was going to happen when you vote for a theocracy where your version of the religion isn't the main one that the fascists in power worship?
First they came for others but now you're next and honestly I don't care if they come for you guys because overall your religion has been dog shit awful and your awfulness spread to the rest of us sane Americans who don't worship a the alter of the golden obese cow.
Ahh, Christian infighting.
Mor(m)ons.
Smith claimed that he was contacted by an angel called Moroni - if he was the scammer most people claim him to be, this is the most daring stealth reference to his group being a bunch of moron(i)s
The word moron didn’t exist in English until ~80 years later though
And now I wonder if "moron" began as a despective distortion of the word "Mormon", hunh
NGL, I read the title as morons as well
Can't believe a guy with so many wives would do this
He's just mad at the cia. Its fine.
Lol mormons aren't christian tho. They believe in like Jesus 2.0. So mormonism should be filed under the sequel Christianity 2.0
Ex-mormon here.
Technically Mormons can be considered Christian simply because they worship Jesus Christ.
But back in reality, they're a cult. Go check out the Mormon Stories podcast and on youtube. No affiliation, I just have a lot of respect for John Dehlin.
So mormonism should be filed under the sequel Christianity 2.0
lul
Ok but if jesus flew over the seas to another place and got an extra story how much extra fanfic before its essentially a new guy. Imo once you add chapters you've invented Jesus 2.0
I mean you're not wrong. Just playing devil's advocate since I spent 30+ years in it as a faithful member.
I do not miss it one bit.
But back in reality, they're a cult.
Are you for real? They are all cults
Yes.
Mormon is fanfic
Christianity 2.0
Isn't it Islam?
Idk I think Islam sees Jesus as like Moses II? There's a bit of retconning there.
I'd love if there was some type of religious git hub that tracked religions like they were code bases being patched by religious figureheads and noting what code was emphasized on each branch.
If I recall correctly, they think he was wise, and that he brought a message from God that superceded the old rules, but that he wasn't the son of God or a part of some divine Trinity.
They then believe that Mohammed was likewise a messenger who brought a new set of rules that obsoleted the ones Jesus brought.
So if I recall correctly, Judaism is to Christianity as Christianity is to Islam. It's just disagreement over which PR to accept.
"Just" seems a weak word to use for the scope of the conflict, but I think that's the heart of it.
And they'll still vote Republican. See the problem?
Haaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaa!
You fucking schmucks. One of the best things about T2 is how nothing is shocking any more. They've turned outrage into comedy.
That's funny, I no longer count Israel worshiping evangelical Zionists as Christian.
I wish my mother was still alive so I could show this and laugh at her for subjecting me to Mormon shit.
Of course, the Kluxer bastard wants "true Christians" and not "pretenders", and I bet he is also doing this to send a message. Only a matter of time he also gets started on non-Christian religions in the US military, including Wiccan.
I live by the location that Mormons believe Jesus will be when he returns. They built a church with a steeple that looks like a massive space ship on that location.
But also fuck Pete Hegseth. They have a right to their beliefs as long as it’s not harming anyone else.
The purity shit they spend massive amounts of money pushing on social media alone is harmful as fuck.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, that particular building is owned by the Community of Christ (formerly the "RLDS" church) which split from the "official" Mormon organization shortly after Smith was killed. It's a wild design. I remember learning about it as a kid and being told that it was a "perversion" or whatever.
Either way, it's all culty bullshit.
Yes! That’s the one! My bf lives by that one and I live by the other monument they built. This one is right in downtown Independence MO, which is also a very low-income area with a lot of homeless people. It’s jarring to see that sticking up amongst it all.
For those of you who don’t know, there are a lot of Mormons in the KC area because some of them believe the Garden of Eden is a short drive north of KC and that Jesus will return to Independence, MO.
I see more Mormon churches in the KC metro than any other religion, although, I don’t know any practicing Mormons myself.
although, I don’t know any practicing Mormons myself.
They tend to be a bit quieter about their religion when not in a predominantly Mormon area like Utah.
That’s what is kinda weird to me. Kansas City has a surprisingly high population of them here. That’s why it’s weird that I don’t know any. From where I sit right this very second I can see a Community of Christ church. And, their headquarters is here.
Interesting. Hilariously, the CoC (heh, cock) is much closer to the original Mormon church in terms of practices than the far larger mainstream sect.
LDS are Smithians
Brighamites, technically. Because the main organization decided to follow Brigham Young after Joseph Smith was killed. The Community of Christ is the one that broke off and reorganized themselves under one of Smith's kids. The whole history of Mormonism is insane, but morbidly fascinating.
How it is with these guys. Its just a matter of time before they get around to screwing you.
Likely what he is thinking.
Dum dum dum dum 🎶
Headset may just lose Utah for Trump. Whoops!
mahhh aside from perhaps the Quakers, the rest if 'em. can all go fuck themselves.
I hate to agree with him, but isn't what he said true? Isn't Mormonism more like Islam where they both have a new prophet after Jesus but worship the same Allah? They're both Abrahamic religions, but neither is Christianity.
Ironically when it comes to the nature of God Muslims and Mormons couldn't be farther apart. Like Christians, Mormons believe in the divinity of Christ, i.e. that he is the Son of God (or "Heavenly Father"), but they reject the Trinity, i.e. that God is one substance in three parts*. Mormons instead believe that God is three separate beings of one purpose and will. Muslims are more like Jews in that they don't think he was the Son of God, but where Muslims think he was a prophet and the Messiah, Jews are... indifferent? Maybe they think he was some smart guy, or maybe he didn't exist. Nice story, who cares basically. Muslims reject the Divinity of Christ because they reject the Trinity because the oneness of God is a core of their beliefs.
*the Trinity gets complicated when you start asking different denominations or even different congregations about it. it is a divine mystery, you're not actually supposed to get it. i didn't make that up, that is what a lot of christian doctrine actually teaches. but they still argue about it. religion is wild
**i'm also not a theologian so notes will be accepted
I don't know Islam enough to speak about it when it comes to this type of distinction. LDS however, worship Jesus, and God the Father. The modern prophets are there only to clarify doctrine, perform ordinances, and help direct the members toward Jesus. They don't supercede Jesus.
This whole thing really just depends on the definition you come up with. You could write a definition that Catholicism is the only Christian religion, because it is the direct decendant of the church Christ built. All other worshipers are offshoots. In practice, that isn't a great definition, because Catholicism isn't close to a majority of people that worship Christ. So you need to expand to include those offshoot religions. You don't want to go too far though, otherwise you get people making their own Christian church, but doing whatever they want in the name of it.
So it is all pedantic talk. I think LDS should be included in Christianity, but I can understand why someone would argue against it, in the name of trying to keep to the core Christian religions.
I thought in Christianity everyone is Christian in the Lord's eyes?
That's only true in a small number of Christian denominations.
Seriously go look up the abrahamic faith family tree. There's a truely staggering number of splits. And the belief interpretation of the scriptures and how outsiders view each wild differ to the point that if you didn't know better you wouldn't even realize 70% of them are related beyond Jesus being involved.
They came for the Lefties, and the Mormons did nothing.
They came for the Transgenders, and the Mormons did nothing.
They came for the immigrants, and the Mormons did nothing.
Now they're coming for the Mormons, and...yeah, we could help, but fuck those treasonous pedophile weirdos.
I'm pretty sure the correct spelling is "morons".
Fuck around ...
You mean the guys who loudly proclaim that splinter sects like the FLDS aren't really Mormons?
Weird.
Weird indeed.
Source: am ex-mormon.
Most Mormons in the USA are Republicans...
Well duh. Democrats don't get to go to Kolob!
Not even if they wear the magic underwear?! What about if they give 10% of everything they earn towards tricking more gullible idiots and brainwashing children? Maybe if they dedicate two years of their lives going door-to-door recruiting more morons, and pay for the privelege out of their own pockets?
The female version of those things is a pain to get off of someone.
Just...you're going to have to trust me on that one.
Rare Pete W
Less W and more "never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake".
Based
Unsurprising.
Weird, since Mormons inhale a lot of desert cock.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_Mormonism
Guess they'll be counted as Jewish?