Toyota Veteran Reveals His Worst Fear: 'Everybody Is Shifting To EVs' - Akio Toyoda says he feels "very alone" in defending combustion engines
8d 4h ago by piefed.zip/u/inari in electricvehicles@slrpnk.net from www.motor1.com
Absolutely mind-melting to hear reps from a company that salvaged the concept of GE's EV-1 and turned it into the wildly popular Prius turn around and bemoan battery powered cars.
What causes executives in the automotive industry to commit these acts of self-harm so consistently?
business degrees
Their yes-men
Uh..they make cars people buy? You guys live in a fantasy world. 3 of 4 cars selling right now are ICE.
Aptera
Canoo
Nicola
Bollinger
Tesla
Are just a few examples of EV companies broke or going broke.
. 3 of 4 cars selling right now are ICE.
2 in 3 as of last quarter, and it's a number that continues to shrink year over year
And you're delusional if you think Tesla is "broke". They have a trillion dollar line of credit
Nikola was never and ev company. Their only vehicle was a truck that could only go downhill. It was a pump and dump scam without a product.
Yes, you’re alone in defending a technology that after a century of intensifying development has 40% efficiency (whereas the tech you’re moaning about has 20 years of intense development and has already hit over 80%), consumes a limited, nonrenewable resource, and has significant responsibility for potentially human-extinction-causing climate change.
You feckless idiot!
I think you might have missed the exhaust killing hundreds of millions of people. No biggie I suppose.
Look Ive been a petrolhead for 30 years and Ive driven a few EVs and even if they are faster and more efficient they lack personality, they are less fun and engaging to drive and that is the ONLY point I will defend them on. The vroom vroom makes me happy.
Everything else... yeah they dont make sense going forward.
"My feelings are more important than your life" kinda vibe. Sure, let's kill the planet because loud noises are fun.
This is why Lemmy sucks, re-read the comment.
I'm a car enthusiast, have been my whole life and even I can admit the only way that EVs arent better is that single point.
I.e if I had the money for a BRAND NEW high end car, Id be buying a Polestar because ITS BETTER IN EVERY WAY BUT ONE!
I agree with that. It’s the imperfection of the engine and transmission - and the proper feedback from mechanical steering and brakes that gives the Ice cars personality and I miss that. EVs are appliances. I think they’ll be like horses. Hobbyist specialties.
I don’t love my EV like some of my previous cars but i haven’t had or made time to properly work on my cars so I do appreciate not needing to do work on the EV - so far.
There's something to this. EVs might be a little too easy. At least at first.
I hope once we start wrecking them up and getting access to low cost parts and such, people will start getting inventive.
Right now, they're too good and too expensive. Suppliers, supply chains, therefore competition is all on the other side of the planet.
We've already seen some stripped down and supped up Tesla's, and I saw someone who bolted a motor to an old Toyota by just cramming it to the transmission with half a clutch welded on.
I’m quite hopeful that there’s a resurgence of tinkering in the EV world - primarily because this whole situation wherein the unavailability of a single board for a car made in 1993 simply bricks it, and EVs are just a collection of “modules”. We need people to rebuild batteries and inverters and all that.
The Fisker bankruptcy is a small scale example where owners have gotten some stuff working again.
Too good? Tesla makes the worst cars you can buy right now.
Tesla makes an excellent powertrain and ships it in a shitbox.
Well, as far as speed. They're limited by the tires right now and that's been the driving force behind a lot of motorheads here for a while.
ICE cars will become luxury items soon. Like you said, it'll be for the people that want to race and feel the engine. The buyers of handmade cars nowadays.
This is the guy who wore a MAGA hat to the Indy 500?
No.
Toyota isn't part of Indycar.
That was a promotional event with NASCAR at Fuji Speedway, last year.
Everyone wears MAGA hats at Indy or NASCAR.
Roger Penske sucking orange cock.
The Chairman will be responsible for the collapse of Toyota.
For the sixth consecutive year, Toyota is the world’s best-selling automaker.
Seems to be doing alright.
For now. Wait till Chinese EV keep taking over.
That is such a telling response.
It's not just Chinese EVS that are taking over, they also make ice and hybrid vehicles, and those are even eating Europe's lunch.
he's already said they can't compete with Chinese EVs, as has the Honda and Ford CEO. Past performance is no predictor of future outcomes and they're both milking ICE for as long as they can while most of the world pivots away. Then retire and leave the next CEO yo deal with the shit show they left behind.
i think Toyota will survive, Nissan, Mazda, Honda will not. Suzuki's pivot to India may work for them.
https://moneywise.com/auto/auto/toyota-honda-ford-ceos-warning-china-portfolio
And, a recent tour of one of the Asian powerhouse's vehicle plants has proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt, at least to Honda President and CEO Toshihiro Mibe.
"We have no chance against this," Mibe said (9) upon a visit to a Shanghai parts factory, commenting on its seamless automation across all levels of production. Logistics, procurement and all aspects of the process were so automated, in fact, that he did not spot a single human worker on the supplier's floor.
even with motorbikes, Honda holds a huge lead in motorbikes around the world, Vietnam legislated to ban the sale of new ice motorbikes and what did Honda do ? petition them to not do that.
Is Akio Toyoda STUPID? He should be making cars no one buys, like Musk! The genius!
Then stop defending combustion engines. Read the room.
Which room, the one with neck beards in forums?
In the real world, Ford sold a million F150s just last year. 3 of 4 cars selling right now are ICE. So Lemmy wants Toyoda to make cars no one is buying just for feels?
People can only buy whats available. Tell me. Why is Ford lobbying to ban BYD from america if consumers dont want EVs?
Whichever room the guy that says he "feels very alone" is in.
That's bad for the environment.
May he combust like the engines he works so tirelessly to defend.
If Akio had access to the internet, he'd be up to speed in the car industry:
"ICE car sales continue to plummet in China, the top 16 cars are now electric".
Don't anyone try to tell me what I "demand".
Fuck ICE whether it be engine or government agency
In China, laws prevent you from accessing most cities without EVs. It's not about choice.
says he feels "very alone" in defending combustion engines
Maybe stop doing that?
Weird, mine is having to live through a modern reenactment of the end Permian extinction event
this is so Japanese......
almost every time i watch Japanese news program, some capitalist elderly straight male (probably also predator) is complaining about social progress and using emotional appeals like "it's sad that traditional men aren't valued anymore..."
when that isn't even true in any empirical sense!
fucking get off the planet, comb-over!
I love an ICE engine myself. Which is why my I have a shed full of antiques that I run once every few months on a nice day. My daily driver is electric though, I wouldn't risk a car I love on the road. (My daily driver is an ebike but for bad weather and long trips I have an electric car)
Reading his complaint I was thinking, combustion engines will still be around, after all I see people driving steam powered antique autos almost every summer. But that doesn't mean we should stay dependent on old, damaging tech for basic tasks
Yeah but Toyota’s market is daily drivers. Camry, RAV4, boring everyday cars. These are cars that can already go electric for most people.
ICE still makes the most sense for bike form factors. My motorcycle gets almost 400km range on 17L of petrol. My electric dirtbike gets 60km (and full sized electric motorcycles get around 150km).
Batteries in cars truly makes the most sense right now. All my cars have large battery packs (despite them not being full ev). I can't justify a full ICE car when hybrids are cheaper to run and more efficient. If I could afford an EV, I'd swap my plugin hybrid immediately.
"400 km" - Most bikers do not sit on a bike 4 hours straight. I'll never ride a noisy ICE bike, but I do find silent, instant torque electric bikes interesting.
i was going to say thats a long time on a bike.
Most pickup owners never haul anything. Since when is vehicles sales rational?
I would reread the comment you're replying to. No one is claiming to sit on a bike for 4 hours straight.
Many motorcyclists use their bikes for road trips and joyrides. It's very common to ride for 1.5-2.5 hours non stop between breaks to stretch ones legs.
Road trips are out of the question on an electric motorcycle even if you have a bike that supports fast charging and you live in an area with many fast chargers. With an electric car, you can chill inside a climate controlled cabin while it takes 20ish minutes to charge. There is no such luxury on a bike. Sustained highway speeds drain the battery as there is no gearing. You would need to stop for a 20-30 minute recharge every hour, which is not feasible.
Also if you're travelling over 60km/h, wind noise drowns out engine noise. And engine noise on modern motorcycles is very quiet. You might be imagining Harley Davidson bikes with the exhaust baffles drilled out and then applying that to all motorcycles.
The USA is not the world. Most of the world rides motorcycles to commute daily in short rides.
Most Zero models have over 100 miles of range highway, at real highway speeds. So no, you do not need to charge every hour. Most chargers are within...horrors...WALKING DISTANCE of a nice cafe. Harley-Davidson's best selling ICE bike only got 90 miles of range.
I'm talking about Canada actually. Most Zero models have up to ~100 miles in mixed usage riding which is city driving from 40-80km/h in short bursts with occasional bouts of highway at 100km/h. Real life usage always has much less range.
Since commuting on a bike is only feasible for most of North America for only a few months per year, motorcycles in North America are joyride vehicles. Also just for your information, there are many models of motorcycle made by Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc. None of them are Harley so I don't understand what your point is about a low range Harley. Perhaps you misread my comment.
There's no valid argument in your case. I love EVs. I love my electric dirtbike. I wanted to get an electric motorcycle. The reality is that range and gearing make electric motorcycles unfeasible for the overwhelming majority of North American use cases. Try and be less snarky when arguing about things you have no direct life experience with.
"no such luxury on a bike" - let me make this clear: a "1.5-2.5 hours non stop bike ride" to nowhere is a luxury, exceptionally lazy luxury. I would reread the post you're replying to.
You've clearly never ridden a bike so it's silly for you to try and debate the experience with me. I suggest you actually know something about the things you argue about with strangers online. This conversation is over.
Toyota has been making hybrids before everyone, by DECADES.
Good
Like an astronomer defending heliocentrism.
Is this nominative determinism or is he part of a dynasty that founded the company?
Grandson of the guy who turned it into a car company, and great grandson of the guy who founded the company.
But also worth pointing out that a lot of Japanese companies maintain the family lineage of CEOs through adult adoption, where the person identified as the heir apparent literally changes their last name and gets adopted into the founding family. I think Suzuki has done it 3 or 4 times, where the President of the company is named Suzuki but is not a blood relative, and is the adopted son of the previous President.
It's the latter. Toyota as a car brand was founded in 1937 by Toyoda Kiichirō and Toyoda Eiji.
Combustion cars don't need defending, they need phasing out.
And it is simply dumb to insist on combustion cars at this point. Toyota had some kind of advantage with hybrids way back, then they went and squandered a bunch of money and time on hydrogen which is also dumb, maybe even dumber...
EV-drivetrain hybrids (eg an EV with a small battery + ~3 horsepower range extender) are a good idea, though.
It's kind of the best of both worlds. And insanely fuel efficient, even if one uses that generator all the time.
ICE drivetrain hybrids are insane, though. It was the only option at the time, but it's also basically the worst of both worlds.
I think the problem is marketing, though.
Try explaining the hybrid distinction to a layman. Or to a snooty, higher end EV buyer turning their nose up at anything that takes gas.
I'd much rather have a full-size battery than a 30-hp ICE "range extender". I wish I could keep my PHEV in EV mode all the time.
Well, most of us do.
But its much more expensive.
And (with current battery tech), a pure EV ultimately yields a car that's much, much heavier.
And a range extender can be absolutely tiny since the "average" horsepower needed for typical driving is actually quite small. I think its also more palatable to potential buyers with EV range anxiety.
Weight has never been a detractor. SUVs even took market share away from lighter cars. Look it up. If you keep the EV long enough, you make up for the upfront battery cost with long term gasoline savings.
I’m not trying to criticize EVs, for those who can afford them.
But there material heavy, and if you need range, expensive at the moment. Not everyone can afford that.
And a range extender is a great way around that, especially in budget vehicles.
You fell in the trap of only looking only at the upfront cost of a new car, rather than cost of ownership over 5-10 years, not to mention second-hand cars. You can find an EV at any price point. Yearly cost is what matters.
The thing is , no matter how fuel efficient they are, you are just burning the stuff, finite and hard to get stuff. And there is also everything else about emissions, climate change and more that I don't really know
Technology connections has an interesting video about renewables in general.
Yeah.
It's a good stopgap, though. We can't all get EVs immedately, but we could get more on the road quickly with this approach.
True , but where I live is almost nonsense buying anything else on the same price point, and even "basic" combustion cars are at almost the same price, some of the hybrids are even more expensive.
If you are buying cheaper than "entry EV's" you are buying used, otherwise the EV wins , unless you personally have some situation where EV is not viable.
Just a crazy market, you have the old brands selling a overall worse combustion car and asking the same as the cheapest EV's , without even mentioning the average combustion cars that are actually more expensive than the "entry " offerings on EV's
He's outright saying he'd rather defend combustion than satisfy demand.
I thought he'd double down on hydrogen.
Oh look the moderators are sucking Toyota's cock.
Wow. Typical Lemmy opinions about cars.
Toyoda has always developed the most efficient cars in the industry, and brought the first hybrid to market in 1997.
EVs are selling better, but not better than ICE. Not even close. Akio Toyoda is not Elon Musk, his company needs to make money selling cars, not flimsy unreliable EVs running mostly on bullshit.
Big picture, Akio Toyoda will be far greener than Elon Musk, and Tesla won't be making cars in two years.
Which EVs are "flimsy" and unreliable?
Yeah Tesla's might be put together poorly, but there are so many good options nowadays. Combustion engines are vastly more complicated than electric motors, batteries do complicate things a bit, but industry has gotten phenomenally good at packaging li-ion batteries, or newer chemistries.
OP's comment has strong "Back in my day cars were made of steel and would crush the passengers like a tin can instead of just crumple breaking apart the outer shell" Energy.
So flimsy and unreliable that my past year with one confirms I'll never go back to gas. It also helped with the power outage yesterday.
Would like to learn how to cut it from the internet though.
Modern ICE are so complex to make them efficient. Dozens of computers and sensors that will fail over time and impossible to trouble shoot without very expensive proprietary software. Not to mention manufacturers lie about their efficiency by programming the computers to fool emission tests.