Why they always do this?
3d 22h ago by lemmy.world/u/WanderWisley in memes
There's no question that judging women by their appearance is a widespread problem, but doing expensive/unsafe medical things for the sake of appearance is also about personality.
Yes... a personality often built off the unhealthy relationship society has with women's physical appearance. Sure, women can not care, but their lives will often unfortunately be much more difficult for it. Even accounting for the effort put into their appearance. These things are not so easily divorced in reality as they are in online discussions.
I'm not ignoring societal pressures, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your priorities. I assume you wouldn't excuse billionaires as just participating in capitalism and doing what they're "supposed" to do. The harm of invasive medical procedures and medications for aesthetic reasons seems like a good place to draw the line and say "you have a problem"
comparing woman and the societal struggle they are forced through just by existing is not the same as choosing to maintain an evil system of financial oppression on the working class.
this is a poor argument.
But they're pressured into it
This is pretending like it's all women who do this, or even all the ones who care about their appreance. It's usually only the extremely wealthy and/or famous. Most normal women don't see the need for these procedures, but the ones trying to be famous/popular are predisposed to thinking others will look down on them for aging.
Am I supposed to know Ariana Grande on some deep interpersonal level to realize that she looks like a walking corpse?
Oh, wow. I hadn't seen what she looked like in quite a while. I just looked her up, and that's uncanny. I would bet her issue stems from the fact she became famous as a child, and feels the need to keep up that appearance. Most famous women are trying to prevent indications of aging (and failing harder than doing nothing), but that's trying to stay looking 30s, not like a teenager.
A fun fact about opinions is that you can keep that shit to yourself. I dont know you but I'm not gonna offer my opinion cuz no one asked. Just because we all have a soapbox doesn't mean we gotta use it
"That's just like your opinion man..."
No, Ariana is beyond opinion. You can literally count her ribs. I literally cringe every time I see her. It's beyond attractive or unattractive, she simply is not healthy.
Yeah when you can see their ribcage is when I stop thinking they look good and need to get some calories in them.
Same for the "hyper shredded" men who need to drink more fluids.
A fun fact about opinions is that you can keep that shit to yourself
Good thing they didn't offer an opinion.
Ariana Grande looks insanely unhealthy, like a skeleton, and appears to be in a health crisis with either ED or GLP1 abuse.
That isn't an opinion, that's a fact. She's undeniably not naturally that bone thin, nor that inactive during her performances like she's been recently.
Wow she responded to Lemmy
“The body that you’ve been comparing my current body to was the unhealthiest version of my body. I was on a lot of antidepressants and drinking on them and eating poorly,” she said. “[I was] at the lowest point of my life when I looked the way you consider my healthy, but that in fact wasn’t my healthy.”
(Actually April 2023)
OK all done with celebrity stuff for the month then! :) cared enough to quickly search once and accidentally found this^ but not opining
This might be shocking to learn, but someone who's clearly going through a health crisis and is clearly extremely unhealthy due to an ED or GLP1 misuse, may actually lie about being unhealthy to get the scrutiny off of them.
Not to mention Ariana went 30+ years not looking like an actual skeleton. No way in fuck her prior body was less healthy.
But this is your opinion that you are sharing even though nobody asked which kind of invalidates your opinion in a way that is humorous
Not an opinion to state that you can keep your opinion to yourself
It’s my opinion that it is an opinion
I like onions.
YOU CANT DO THAT, JUST STATE THINGS ON THE INTERNET
I think its reasonable to bring attention to the extremely harmful act of women, who are held by society as the beauty standard, are anorexic or abusing weight loss drugs when it isn't necessary.
We have countless studies on the ill effects idolizing women with unrealistic body standards, especially to the point they're harming themselves to achieve them, has on women and young girls. This recent revival of the "heroine chick" beauty standard via eating disorders and GLP1 abuse is a nightmare to the psyche of women and girls, and also does damage the psyche of men and young boys for that matter.
"Heroin chic" is the fashion of looking starved and shadowed as if you're a heroin addict.
"Heroine chick" is Supergirl
"You are my heroine! And by that I mean lady hero. I don't want to inject you and listen to jazz"
Judging people they don't know by their appearance.
I've seen WAY more women tear down other women for their appearance than men. That and the crazy online dating statistics that came out showing women judge people by their appearance way more harshly.
I don't know if its a cultural problem or not, but people in general judge others by their appearance. Beautiful men have pretty privilege just as much as women.
I'm a dude but pretty much all the negative comments I get about my appearance come from women. The most I get from dudes occasionally is something akin to "lol, short" but mostly they compliment the fact that I work out. Women go into details about things they see wrong with me. Like I get that for women complimenting me comes with the risk that I'll be a weirdo about it (not that I actually would) but you can just not say anything...
This is it, right here. It really doesn't matter what women do, there will be a legion of people coming out of the woodwork to disapprove. I'm hardly a transhumanist but when it comes to those small modifications to ourselves to feel more attractive, I'm all for it.
Because the cosmetics industry spends billions of dollars a year yelling at women that they aren't good enough.
They're working the same bullshit on boys too (publicly) for the last 20 years.
I mean, it's been going on far longer than 20 years. It's just been more directly relatable to how women's appearances have been critiqued since 'metrosexuality' was a trend a couple decades ago.
Yes. I specifically mention 20 years because that is roughly where Neutrogena said at a shareholder meeting that their goal was to addict boys and men to their products like they have to girls and women.
the thing is, those ppl have seen others with mar-a-lago face. it's uncanny. still they do it. they are like "i wanna look bad and unnatural". we have to accept that. their body; their choice.
I thought it was relatively well known that you’re mostly only noticing people that either have went too far or didn’t respond well to whatever treatment.
The thing is that the majority mostly fall under two categories; ones that look natural to the person and you don’t notice them or things that the viewer might not find attractive but the person wanted.
Ie a rhinoplasty to change the side profile of your face via straightening your nose, while maintaining a similar frontal profile.
Vs
A rhinoplasty to create a pinched in upturned nose similar to a bratz doll
Both are rhinoplasty, but achieve quite different goals. Im just saying it’s complex.
also, depending on personal preference, "too far" is usually any change. it's hard to top thousands of years of human evolution. even a cute face with a medium size scar often looks good to most ppl; better even, than the outcome of reconstructive surgery.
if you have seen the person before, you will always notice and it will be uncanny. you can even notice just botox as soon as a person speaks and it's weird.
but it's also a matter of taste, like a piercing, for example. some ppl will be like "nooo, what did you do to your perfect face" and others will be like "i'm into that". the question is what ones priorities are. do they want to look well for others and if so, whom? or do they do it for themselves and it doesn't matter if others are weirded out.
That’s not right.
They are yelling at women that they aren’t good enough… unless they are waring their product. Oh if you use that other product you are just as ugly as you feel inside.
Is that why every brodude smells like tea-tree oil to high heaven now? Every nu-male must be drinking the same Faceslop and Instaslop trends
And then that gets hyper magnified through our little pocket black mirrors that most commonly destroy your attention span, thus ability to deeply consider any concept or do deep introspection, and it creates an incentive structure for people to turn themselves into superficial advertisement mascot people, which itself then becomes culturally normalized.
Hot take: advertising doesnt have that much impact on womens views of their own attractiveness or society's beauty standards, unless those women are completely disconnected from the outside world. If it did, women's beauty standards would be completely homogenenized. Instead, we see significantly different standards for what women strive for between cultures and social strata.
Instead, women are picking up cues from their social circles and the broader cultures they participate in.
Okay, then you can see that in many ways advertising creates and reinforces the looks of these subcultures in the first place.
We are not taking strict commercial advertising here, we are talking a coordinated effort across all cultural platforms to ingrain their brands.
Magazines, movies, music, tv, games, the military, higher education, bars, and even books etc; can and do have corporate sponsorships. They are all selling an image inside of each of these subcultures.
With the rise of globalism this has been spread throughout the world.
coordinated effort
This is our point of disagreement. The effort isn't coordinated. In fact, it is competitive. If you believe there is some high council of global beauty standards, disseminating their message to every bar and tv show and school in the world, you are a conspiracy nut.
Instead, these entities look at the subcultures they sell to, observe what people consider beautiful in them, and then sell that image.
If you don’t think there is a coordinated effort to market products globally in the year 2026, you’re just not thinking thoroughly.
If they makes me a nut than okay I guess
Edit: accidentally said 2016, damn I’m getting old
Do you believe there is some high council of global beauty standards, disseminating their message to every bar and tv show and school in the world? That this message is given, unambiguously, from the global beauty standard high council as marching orders, and then that all these institutions follow suit obediently while also remaining quiet about the fact that they were given these instructions?
Because society tells attractive women our value is primarily being attractive and losing that is scary since most people aren’t willing to give up the only thing that makes them valuable
When I got fat, people were assholes to me so much more often. They had no patience for me, it was crazy. I got back in shape and I'm worth courtesy and kindness again, apparently.
I'm afraid of aging in part because I'm scared to lose that basic human decency again.
this reminds me of a story. a friend who who underwent HRT and surgical transition early in life with support of her parents. she started dating someone in her mid 20s. he was kind, patient, and gentle to her for the first months of their relationship. then the topic of kids came up. she was upfront with him. "we'd have to adopt. i'm trans" and it was like a lightswitch turned in him. he screamed at her for tricking him and stormed out sticking her with the restaraunt bill. by all of the things that supposedly matter in society, she had done everything right. she was conventionally attractive by femme standards, her physical appearance was so in alignment with femme standards in fact that this secret chud hadn't even realized she was trans. but still, the moment she couldn't perform the full societal standard for what it means to be femme presenting, she was met with threats of physical violence, abandoned, and left to fulfill a responsibility that it had been pre-agreed on he would cover.
and i ask you: who tricked who? the trans woman who in 2013 didn't want to bring up her transness until she knew she was safe, or the man who said he was an ally up until the moment someone he said he loved turned out to require even basic allyship
It's one of the paradoxes of being trans. You tell you're trans, "why are you making a big deal out of it, who cares, why is everyone pushing trans agenda these days", but if you don't tell, then you're lying and deceiving others and you should always tell about it, everyone you interact with has the right to know!! There are no winning moves with hate
both of those sounds like a grate reason to be upfront about it with a life partner
i’d be pretty pissed if i didn’t know by the time we're seriously talking about kids
and if someone is that dismissive about something and talking about ‘trans agenda’ now you know they are a bigot
In my experience, talking about kids on dates is something you need to get out as soon as other basic compatibility is established. It's an immediate dealbreaker for many, and it's a critical component of a future relationship. If your date doesn't want kids and you do, you basically skip GO and are straight to "okay well guess we're just friends now" or "nice knowing you".
yep the big deal breakers should all probably air out early
vds, religion, kids, trans, politic
You do not need to look a certain way to be worthy of respect, kindness, and love. And it's sick that so many people are such superficial assholes.
Halo effect is real, most people aren't self aware enough to realize that they do in fact bias their judgements of others based on how attractive they find them.
1). Society tells women they need to do things “preventively” to avoid becoming hideous goblins in a few years. That’s why you see 22 year olds getting Botox - they have been told they have to start paying NOW to avoid wrinkles
2). Hollywood and entertainment media have normalized unrealistic standards. And you can’t become a newcomer in that space without conforming to the employable look
3). Gossip media loves to pick apart any millimetre of fat (“Is ______ pregnant? Click to see her baby bump!”) or photo taken in bad lighting (“What is wrong with ______ ‘s health, click to see what our medical specialists have to say”). And then they love to chastise people after they give into plastic surgery (“Click to see ______’s terrible nose job, why DID she do it??”)
Billions of dollars are made making women feel shitty. Nobody is going to let that cash go because morals.
This meme is part of the system here as well.
No one in this thread is complaining about ugly women getting these procedures done. They want women to be attractive, but only on their terms.
Yes it’s irritating that society can celebrate the good qualities of men who aren’t physically attractive (sense of humour, intelligence, kindness, etc.) but has such trouble accepting that a woman who isn’t physically attractive can have worthwhile qualities. We can’t seem to compute when a woman decides that she has other priorities.
Fuck the patriarchy. All my homies hate the patriarchy.
Oh boy a thread about women's bodies, I'm sure this will be a civil and rational discussion and definitely won't have misogynistic views throughout the entire thing.
Why do people keep inventing ways to make people feel insecure about their appearances? Because there is a lot of money in it, comrade.
Yup, the beauty industry and women’s magazines push an unattainable look to make other people, usually male, lots of money.
Dude my gorgeous friend 38 getting filler. Now looks like she's ate some shellfish she's allergic to.
Keeps getting it every 6 months or so.
Just awful.
I can't tell her cause that will make her feel even worse.
God I hope she stops. I'm angry at the advertisement and grifters that convinced her she needed it.
We are both millennials. Aka ageless women. None of us even look our age anyway. And she's thinking she needs to fix her perfect face.
Idk. I just reject all that nonsense. I'm ready to experience this whole life. I want to be an older woman when I'm older. I don't want to be one way forever. Boring.
But culture tells women they are worthless when they are less fuckable. I hate it.
We are both millennials. Aka ageless women. None of us even look our age anyway.
Is this a thing?? I'm a millennial and don't look my age and have noticed the same for plenty of other women around my age. I've always wondered about it, but hadn't heard of it in a broad sense.
Having children takes a huge toll on the body. Millennials tend to have none or a lot fewer children than previous generations. Also, millennials eat way healthier and smoke less than their parents and grandparents.
And even though we grew up without it, we now wear sunscreen.
and sunscreen
edit: plus maybe clean air laws.
Alcohol, too. While I do believe many/most did the whole "social life is at the bar" out of high school, I think millennials were the generation that started breaking the cycle more and started doing more things while drunk (like board game bars, video game bars, escape rooms, etc), and then transitioned to not getting as drunk so they could do the things better and not be as much of a burden on those around them who weren't just trying to get wasted for the night.
Also more options that weren't as destructive as alcohol for those that still wanted to get fucked up. And less judgement about those options.
Yeah it's kind of a running joke but true. I suspect it's because of sunscreen and a lot of us never smoked. Idk. Our generation just seems to look younger.
People can't believe I'm in my 40s now. I also have a baby-face so that just adds to it. And I've always been good about wearing face sunscreen because im pasty and burn easy.
Never smoked.
Also no kids.
I see the generations after us looking older than us. I don't know what changed.
Heavy makeup is a thing for the older generations and the younger generations.
I think I've only worn full face makeup 3x in my life. If/when I ever do put on makeup, it's typically mascara. Every now and then eyeliner and eyeshadow. That's literally it.
That could also be a factor. I too wear no makeup most days. And even when I do it's a little macara or something. Haven't worn full face makeup since a few times as a teenager for like homecoming or something
I suspect many of them overdo skincare, diet, etc.
Ive been washing my face with bar soap since I was a teen. That's my skincare routine. And I grew up eating junk food. Though I do eat better now. 🤷
I'm the same but with moisturizer (I typically make my own out of cocoa butter, coconut oil, and olive oil) and sunscreen. Also I don't wear foundation and only wear makeup for nights out and other occasions. I get the occasional zit, but my face is aging gracefully for now.
My hair on the other hand, I do very little for and is a disaster.
But yeah I think that it's really possible to overdo skincare, especially if you buy into all the propaganda that the beauty industry puts out.
My wife, 38, objectively gorgeous, is fully on the botox train and it breaks my heart. Feels like its so prevalent a sizeable chunk of the population must have full on body dysmorphia.
Insecurity :(
and if you interrogate where that insecurity has its roots, you will often find the answer is a society that constantly subjects women to judgement for their appearance, be that negative or positive judgement. it is simply the experience of being judged. botox, ozempic, plastic surgery, etc all becomes gender affirming care when you are femme in a society that requires femme identifying people to perform the role of disireable sexual object
the original post asks why. the original post also is why
and men have their own experiences with oppositional gaze, too, so we are clear. if you've ever heard the phrase "low t" applied to a man in his 30s or later, you have witnessed it
If I ever heard someone say "low t" unironically, I might laugh so hard I die.
I would not look at billboards around my state, then...
Testosterone supplements and baby wipes for men.
REGROW YOUR HAIR. WORK YOUR MUSCLES LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE 17 EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE 40. EAT STEAK. YOUR VALUE AS A MASCULINE MALE IS TO PERFORM AGGRESSION, NOT IN YOUR ABILITY TO GROW OUT OF THAT BEHAVIOR
They really are out there saying the ideal man is a 17 year old that actually looks 25 with brain damage huh… I guess we shouldn't be too surprised since that's the standard women have been held to for a long time too.
epstein class needs fuckable battle twinks
Baby wipes. For men. So... Just normal wipes then?
MANLY MAN WIPES
They’re mint flavored and come in a black package.
And now we have social media influencers marketing fucking 10 kinds of steroids to children. It's insanity.
the best thing you can do to resist it i think is make sure the people in your life know you value them for them and not for their aesthetic charm. everyone tell a friend right now that you think they're funny, or that you apprecieate their kindness, or that you value their perspective, or anything that's based on their persona and not their physical appearance. and if you are struck by someone's physical charm, pause, and take a moment to notice their outfit and compliment that instead. their outfit required them to make choices about their personal sense of style
This is probably the truth. Probably not root cause(that's society, women being taught to depend on men, shows teaching women their value is in looks and not brains etc) but it's likely the closest cause of this.
Not a woman, so I could be full of shit. It does seem to me that women face much more pressure to be conventionally attractive, especially in image-intensive jobs like acting.
Very true, and already-attractive women started being told how pretty they were while they were younger so it became part of their identity and sense of self-worth. So they're vulnerable to the fear of "losing their looks."
Maybe a bit like kids being told they are "smart" and "gifted" turns a lot of them into workaholics with a fear of skill-based failure.and coping mechanisms around that.
A lot is advertising. Dude im 40F. It's nonstop advertising to get fillers. Botox. Implants. Ozempic.
Constantly bombarded with it.
Firefox + uBlock origin. No more targeted ads.
I get them on Instagram a lot. I already use Firefox and ublock. And have targeted advertising turned off.
Doesn't seem to matter.
Stop using Instagram.
You know originally it was used by artist, right?
You can still use it for art networking.
You don't have to follow "models" . I don't.
There are other places for art networking, places that don't support quite as awful of a corp.
If you must use Instagram, do it from a browser with uBlock origin or other adblocking. Those ads are harmful for your health. If that's not possible and you really want a change, quit using it. The platform's sole purpose is to make you feel like shit by comparing you to "others" so they can sell you useless crap.
Thanks for the tip. I do usually use the app.
Yeah I use Instagram mostly to follow artists. I don't follow Instagram personalities selling stuff. Even the political stuff I follow is from artist and organizations. Not "models".
I'm also not on Instagram every day.
So I'm not really at risk for having body or self esteem issues. Honestly never have problems with those because I'm arrogant and don't think body/looks is very important compared to things like empathy and common decency.
So I'm a hostile defensive "victim". Not sure how else to describe it.
But if I think someone is trying to manipulate me or make me a victim I kinda get really mad really fast.
Not just me but I feel the same if I see someone trying to do it to someone else.
Like one time this guy tried to mug me (sort of) and I cussed him out cause I was so angry he thought I was an easy target. The audacity. Like a full on white trash cussing out. I didn't even know I could come up with creative shit like that on the fly but I guess the magic was in me all along.
He didn't have a weapon. Was just a huge dude trying to say if I didn't give him money he was going to hurt me. A 5ft 2 woman.
How dare he!? Who tf did he think he was?
Who tf did he think I was?
Cause I'm bout to tell him.
He did in fact, walk away after saying something about me needing a leash or something.
Like, I'm pretty pleasant and friendly most of the time but I have some kind of defensive trigger when it comes to predatory people or predatory advertising (most of it is).
Don't forget Pi hole!
I lost about 100lbs on a prescription similar to ozempic. The world is much kinder to me now. I got a promotion, more hours working, society is friendlier and kinder. I would recommend anyone considering it talk to their doctor.
I also lost about 100 pounds by eating one meal a day and walking a lot and using the EC stack.
In the span of seven years, I nearly quintupled my income.
I dunno, I think the tides of public opinion are shifting on ozempic. Mostly because of how absolutely awful being fat is on your body. Though, where it's priced now it's going to remain a designer drug for vain, rich assholes with a touch of sour grapes for everyone else.
In my own opinion I wouldn't even put it in the same category as those others.
A healthy body needs fat. As long as you are healthy, you can have fat. The amount and thresholds can vary strongly from person to person.
I'd bet the comment was referring to obesity and not just a healthy amount of fat
Apparently you're right. I misunderstood it a bit.
hey just wanted to say - thanks for admitting you misunderstood something. such a rare sight on the internet
I agree, but if we look at the CDC: Percent of adults age 20 and older with overweight, including obesity: 72.4% (August 2021-August 2023)
72 point freakin' 4 percent.
With numbers like that, obesity is more like an epedemic and ozempic is a potential treatment.
Trü.
I guess I stumbled upon the wording "how awful being fat is on your body".
Then it should probably be rephrased to say how awful being obese is on your body.
Hey that's obese and overweight. Obese alone is only like half of everyone!
Like most things, Ozempic is fine by itself. But when you put it in the context of a society obsessed with both unrealistic beauty standards and assigning moral weight to any perceived “flaw,” Ozempic is a fast track to returning to the eating disorder epidemic of the 1980s-2000s.
Future historians will also note the coincidence of the meteoric rise of Ozempic with the rise of fascism. Making people feel bad about themselves is how the ruling class and patriarchy exert control. They want you to be unhealthily obsessed with your weight, just as they want you to be addicted to drugs, porn, video games, etc. The radical body acceptance movement was a direct threat to their power, and Ozempic has pretty much removed it from the conversation.
I know a couple people that are on some of those ozembic type drugs for their weight and it's done wonders for them. They were obese though, not already at a good weight, and nothing else they tried worked for them because their food cravings were too much for them to deal with. With the drug they are able to manage their diet and maintain a healthy weight effectively.
Ozempic causes GI issues, such as paralysis, and numerous other issues like fatigue and depression because starving yourself isn't healthy. Just exercise and eat a better diet. Exercise is so good for you that fat people who exercise are actually healthier than people of a healthy weight who are sedentary. No fucking way would I ever go on a weight loss drug.
I'm not sure where you read that, but as far as I know it doesn't cause people to starve themselves. It suppresses hunger so they eat a normal amount of food in an era where calorie-dense, hyperpalatable food is the norm.
Diet and exercise is the gold standard, but some people just can't regulate their diet for whatever reason. Be it discipline or genetics. Ultimately though it doesn't matter because the bottom line is a staggering amount of people are at an unhealthy weight.
Being overweight is so bad for your health that known side effects of a drug like ozempic are negligible in comparison. The ones we know about, anyway.
https://wernerhoffman.com/mass-tort-lawyer/ozempic-stomach-paralysis/
It's like 1/20 patients.
Thanks for coming in with that. From what I've heard from my family members in healthcare I knew it was bad, I just didn't have any actual data.
That’s pretty fucking high
Like with most new drugs it's something to keep an eye on, though I would be weary of using a source with such a significant financial bias.
I didn't read it. I had a doctor tell that to me.
Doctors say all sorts of things.
The fundamental premise of prescribing medication is that the best medication is no medication.
Like if someone's depressed, they should try talking it out before taking anti-depressants.
Once you accept that premise then the doctor's job is to motivate people to try talking to a friend, or exercising, before prescribing any medication.
"A person who's feeling sad is much more likely to make a full recovery just talking to a friend a few times a week than someone who starts anti-depressants"
That doesn't mean that anti-depressants aren't appropriate for someone who's really going through it and has exhausted other forms of therapy.
I know all that. I have a lot of family members in healthcare. I responded to you at like 4 am, but I could have given a better response. Still on like 4 hours of sleep lol.
I'm honestly just waiting to see what kind of new side-effects gets listed in the next 5-10 years with these weightloss drugs. I wouldn't risk anything with this level new medicine, and I'm struggling with losing weight right now.
Self hatred is an industry. The manosphere is one part, and the beauty industry is the other - both trying to make you hate yourself and then sell you the cure. It's emotional and psychological grifting.
Patriarchy
e: Some dudes apparently can't take accountability and they gotta downvote me to prove their point
and misogyny
Honestly I disagree. I rarely see men judge a woman for looks. It's typically women judging other women for looks. I've never seen a man look down on a woman for not having painted nails for example but have seen woman comment on another woman for her nails being chipped.
There was an old joke like "if you ever are about to have sex with a man and he comments about how your panties and bra don't match... RUN! What is wrong with that person? No man cares, hell you're about to remove them anyways."
Edit: men are dangerous for many reasons. Typically the opposite problem, they see a woman as too beautiful to refuse the desire to have sex with them. They rarely have the feeling of" well she would be pretty but seriously, that shirt with those heels?".
Idk if you're a man or a woman, but that's a wild take. I've definitely heard men nitpick a woman's appearance, including chipped nail polish, but above all about weight, which is a big part of the original post.
In my experience, women are more likely to talk trash about things easily changed: judging someone for clothes that don't fit well or makeup that's poorly applied, whereas men will trash women for body type, weight gain, and aging.
And if you think a man is dangerous to a beautiful woman who rejects them, you don't want to meet a man who is mad a woman "below" him has rejected him. That can be violent.
Internalized sexism fam
Sexism against who and by who?
Sexism is the systematic inequitable treatment of girls and women by men and by the society as a whole Its a form of internalized oppression which consists of oppressive practices that continue to make the rounds even when members of the oppressor group are not present
by the society as a whole Its a form of internalized oppression
Why are women excused but men not? This is why people are downvoting you, you're holding a double standard.
Women are free from blame because it's "internalized" by society but men are apparently immune to that same society? No "internalized" excuse for them?
It's pathetic and infantilizes women, it doesn't defend them.
Men aren't a part of society got it
Ok, so they bear no responsibility for their own actions.
Congratulations on completely infantilizing women.
I just want you to know that I'm downvoting you because the way you express your opinion is facile and simplistic, and honestly helps further the division you purport to critique. Not because I necessarily disagree with the general sentiment you believe you're trying to convey.
One word answers to problems are easy, but they rarely accurate enough to actually help solve the issue and generally are used to push people to extreme opinions. It's much less effort to just spout a catchphrase to push people towards your own personal goal rather than get into an actually beneficial discussion about the ins and outs of how life actually works and how to solve real world problems.
Thats fair. You're way better at getting a point across than I am
Women put pressure on other women too. Girls can be bullies in school.
I'm not downvoting you, but I am disputing the assertion that only men uphold unfair standards.
patriarchy ultimately benefits men*, but all people can wield it for at least crumbs of power
when you’re a woman who conforms to patriarchal standards, stepping on the women who don’t helps you look better in the eyes of men*, and so it gives you more power relative to the women you stepped on
* i am talking about men as a social class here, not men as individual people. before someone not-all-men’s me.
Yeah men love the catty bitch stereotype of women, the one who tears down other women over shallow nonsense.
Men tear down women just for the love of the game apparently.
I’m sure some do.
Like OP :)
Internalized misogyny is a thing.
☕
Wait I'm confused, if patriarchy is still a thing then why are all women in media strong independent "need no man" girl bosses now? Somebody please explain.
Because if there wasn't a patriarchy they'd be able to just be people like everyone else.
If we evolved from monkeys why we we still got monkeys
They’re just another marketing arm of the patriarchy.
Insecurity will poison every aspect of your life
Self confidence is attractive
Social media is brain poison. That's why, that's the reason.
I kind of hate that this implies “ugly” women will not be judged here for using the same beauty procedures as already attractive women.
Not to mention that these beauty procedures are also sought out by men.
Wholesome plot twist; the "already attractive women" includes all the women.
On Lemmy?
Haaaaaahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
It’s a nice thought regardless :)
I'm certain that all women are attractive in somebody's eye.
There are definitely some thirsty fuckers out and about.
You don't need to defend OP. There's a reason "already attractive women" is used.
Reverse discrimination, nice.
More like targeted discrimination. OP is a man judging a subset of women.
Changing your looks can help a lot with confidence.
Yeah, this post is just misogynistic.
“You already make my dick hard, why are you still insecure?!”
Yeah it’s gross.
Seems like a lot of the time they're doing it for other women.
There was a study that showed that men prefer natural lips while women preferred the injected lips. It's definitely done for other women.
Femcelmemes wins again! /s
My wife has been getting GLP-1 ads constantly. She weighs 110 lb and has struggled with anorexic tendencies since she was a teenager. Consumerism has no conscience.
body dysmorphia happens
It's her body and she gets to make the choice
I technically agree with this. If it came down to making laws about this or that, body autonomy takes priority. But I don’t think that should preclude discussion about an individual’s motivation for the modification, and whether it is healthy.
Especially since women are under constant pressure to chase unrealistic beauty expectations.
Does she now. Or is it that many women are bombarded with so much bullshit starting from so early an age that for many it is not them exercising their choice, but a bunch of assholes extracting money from them with no regards to consequences?
There's that one Batman: The Animated Series episode when the antagonist was a beautiful actress who thought she was ugly and irredeemable because years of trauma and stress locked her mind to see only the minor imperfections instead of the full picture. That's what I see whenever I see an actually beautiful person does cosmetic surgery.
I just poop and then I weigh less. And then I eat it again and I weigh the same.
You what.
That's English, you inliterate
She has Graves’ disease.
That requires the hideous mods she did to her face?
She was super super pretty, even if not your type, she looked great. Wtf did she do.
She lost a shit ton of weight because of Graves’ disease. Edit: I just remembered, the steroids used to treat Graves’ disease also affect how your face looks.
She also had some work done, but not anything more than any other actress has generally.
People really don't understand how hard thyroid issues will impact your body and appearance.
The most conventionally attractive woman I ever dated, and she had it all, was so incredibly negative about her body but she thought everyone else was beautiful. It actually got kind of exhausting because I would compliment her, not just her looks either, I spent a lot of time trying to learn how to compliment well while dating her. Complimenting her wardrobe choices, hair styles, jewelry; things she actively put effort into is where I’d try to deliver most of my compliments. Anyway, I felt like I was taking crazy pills because she was an absolute bombshell and the most receptive response to any compliment I ever received was “you’re biased”. I didn’t compliment her because I needed her to respond any certain way but I often wonder what happened that kept her from seeing how gorgeous she was. Another behavior I couldn’t figure out is that she almost seemed more drawn to people that would put her down, almost like she expected that treatment or it was a comfort zone for her or something.
I'd suspect either abuse in the past or being a really awkward looking teenager. I know it took me a long time to accept I turned out attractive because I looked just awful during puberty.
There's also masochistic epistemology, ie the thought pattern that truth hurts and so that which hurts is true and that which feels good is a lie (it's very popular in toxic internet spaces for example).
Because bad reaction to shellfish is the in look rn.
You are what you think about, and if you don't control your thoughts, they control you.
I get scared of the botox faces, both seen from a screen and IRL. They speak, but face doesn't move. No emotions. It's just unsettling. And it's hard to take the person seriously, even if they were smart.
Often it looks like that the person would be very pretty, definitely not a mirror breaker, under it all. Even makeup often looks like the person would look better after cleaning the skin with a butter knife. I keep hearing from men that their ladies are most prettiest after waking up or just without makeup, but it's not like they can say that without the lady thinking they're being sarcastic.
Because makeup is for women what bodybuilding is for men. Go tell a bodybuilder that ladies would find him prettier if he was skinnier, and see his reaction
I was thinking of this while writing!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
think of these things like getting a tattoo. -It's not done for you.
If you can't accept how beautiful you are, the way you are, doing stuff in your face won't change it either.
The wrost part is the internet and the Barbie effect, that brainwashes women, same as politics, because she did, you have to do it or follow the trend.
Let me tell you what: you are amazing the way you are, you look different, you look beautiful!
If you have something you are recognized for... you will cling desperately to it. Comedian? Forever chasing their best show. Sports legends hanging around too long. Its pretty human to want recognition... even if part of it is genetics and youth. Time is the great equaliser.
In the end - if the odd rituals, diets, and surgery leaves them feeling happy... let them have it. Being pretty and famous is almost a monkeys paw. Sure, everyone ages - but you get to age on a pedestal. There initially for your broad appeal... and then on public display as everyone gets to get their shots in as that youthful glow fades. Ick. I wouldn't want it to be me.
i think the meme was mostly referring to celebrities. they certainly will cling to thier "ip". ISAIP's ROB mac and kaitlyn olsen, and glenn to a lesser extent is trying to cling to hollywood fame for dear life. they became unrecognizable compared to even season 12, its kinda funny how people younger than milleneals dont even notice them at all(they went on talk shows and what not) nobody cheered or anything it was honestly kinda cringe how he hyped his own image up.
What if being kinda pretty is like the first meth pipe in our society? Like that the rush that complements you get can get you hooked?
Foxycodone
Because patriarchy.
That strikes me as a super cop out. People just like to be noticed and recognized and the more of it you have, the more of it you want, just like wealth.
I don't go to the gym because of unrealistic male body standards, I do it because it feels good to be noticed even after you've got kids and you're happily married. It feels good to win and it feels bad to lose but if you have to lose at least you can crab bucket?
Bruh, its just as simple as that. Apply Occams Razor...
Take me down your line of thought because I don't see how Occam's razor applies. Everyone likes to be perceived as attractive or MORE attractive. It's not just women who take GLP-1s or get plastic surgery. And it's not just ugly people or pretty people, it's everybody. It's nicer to be desirable by popular standards than not. That's not the patriarchy, that's comparative evaluation for mate selection.
And if you're not into that it's fine, but everyone likes to be viewed as attractive.
I find the "bruh it's the patriarchy" to be, frankly, pretty fucking dumb.
Im just gonna give you ine example.
I got to the gym, because it improves my health and abilities, allowing me to do more and do it longer. Because I like experiencing life, so it allows me to experience more.
You do it to get noticed. Why?
Why not?
I increase weight and duration to be able to do more or go longer than than other people which brings feelings of accomplishment. It also brings all the benefits you describe. You don't HAVE to compete, but that doesn't mean that people who do compete are just victims of the patriarchy, that's an absurd take.
It's almost like we can all do things for different reasons and you don't have a monopoly on why people should do a thing.
You don’t HAVE to compete, but that doesn’t mean that people who do compete are just victims of the patriarchy, that’s an absurd take
People who do compete without a set goal (e.g. I win this cup, get the prize money and go do X that I want to do) are victims of bullshit. Was it patriarchy that cooked some particular bullshit up or not is not really the biggest question
People who do compete without a set goal (e.g. I win this cup, get the prize money and go do X that I want to do) are victims of bullshit.
That is a wild take.
To borrow from Daniel Pink's book "Drive" which focuses on motivation theory, external motivators like money or prizes take you nowhere near as far as internal motivators. You are more likely to succeed generally and reach higher levels of performance if your motivation is intrinsic because you give that motivation to yourself and it is self-amplifying. Of course, his bent is more business-meets-academia, but I would struggle to see a world where it doesn't also apply here. Would you just up and start a new hobby because you won the local competition?
It seems to me that by your logic you go take a karate class so you can get a black belt and then quit? Where's the satisfaction in that? I don't think that's a problem of being a "victim of bullshit", it's about the pursuit of excellence for its own sake.
You are conflating competing with enjoying doing something
And you can do both.
Are you confused or just dumb?
It’s nicer to be desirable by popular standards than not. That’s not the patriarchy, that’s comparative evaluation for mate selection
One, you are trying to substitute whole with a part of it (guess what, not for all people it is nicer). Second, that standpoint may not have arisen out of patriarchy alone, but it is bullshit nonetheless. Have a nice day, go get them tiger
You feel the need to compete for attention, because you have been told winning a competition increases your "value"....
Why do you think or feel that competing increases your value, somehow?
You feel its all just "mate selection" and Im telling that is a facet of the patriarchy....
I'm telling you I like to compete and by every metric I'm probably both healthier and more capable than you as a result. I'm glad you're working on it, but the difference between us is not "patriarchy" no matter how you shoehorn it, it is more likely not being in good shape and trying to catch up. I like attention as a motivator sure, but success and improvement are their own rewards. People can just be just more motivated than you. Bodybuilding and powerlifting are both things people enjoy for their own sake.
Society isn't the thing keeping you down, it's the law of averages. Most people suck. At everything. All the time. Welcome.
Ok. Keep fighting for perceived value.
Some day, you'll learn to love yourself, for no reason than just to love yourself.
Btw, I just finished recovering a dump truck with a come along today, and chopped about 3 weeks worth of wood. Ill do similar tomorrow.
Im betting your fitness training for attention has you in better shape than I.
Maybe someday you'll wake up. Until then? Cheers!
The moment someone resorts to insults is the moment you know they’ve lost the argument. 👆
The moment one party resorted to sealioning, the argument was over. 🤷
Or maybe that's also the Occam's razor of patriarchy.
Re: GLP-1s
Surely, health is more important than being attractive.
Every single one of these answers puts the choice on something else, other than the women's own choice
yeah i love it when male feminists talk about women like they’re victims
you know john travolta and jim carey just completely mashed their faces in, no one going around like men have such struggles with society 😓
I think it comes from every possible direction. Family when young with pressure to dress a certain way or present a certain way. Media showing a certain look depending on what is fashionable. Constant beauty and makeup stuff. Peers pick it up and model. People expect it so much that if you even skip one thing you may hear “wow you look tired today”. And these beauty standards are socially enforced and expected behaviors. It’s everywhere from everyone all the time.
there are probably different reasons for many cases.
after i heard about an abusive guy making his partner tattoo his name all over her (news article in German https://www.20min.ch/story/niederlande-ex-zwang-joke-zu-250-hans-tattoos-am-ganzen-koerper-103548055), i think maybe some ppl make their partners do this to make sure they will not find another partner. i also remember cases where ppl fed their partners extra big portions in hopes of making them obese, so they can't find another partner. but it's probably not always the case.
maybe sometimes they are just bored and don't care about their health and looks.
If someone is “attractive,” there’s a fair bit of chance they’ve done stuff to get there already, like exercising, skincare, etc.
The things on the image are just an extension of that. They’re not thinking like OP that they’ve done enough. It’s all the same thing.
This is the thing. There's a spectrum between eschewing Botox and freezing your whole face, or between ignoring your skin and adhering to a 26-step Korean regimen. The problem is that when someone crosses an imaginary line and does something "noticeable" that everybody starts tut-tutting, but the line is not the same for everybody.
Yesterday I saw Disclosure Day and the stiff and botched face of the actress was so off putting
A lot of "insecurity" and "marketing" comments in here.
In the world where we don't shoot from the hip, there are different factors for different things.
For example, Covid, and the mass use of video calls and TikTok that came with it, brought about the "flat features" phenomenon from cameras, which drove a huge increase in lip fillers and other botox to help people stand out.
But things like Ozempic are very different, as they are used much more by those who can truly benefit from them to reduce other medical issues that come with weight.
And to be clear, none of these things are bad. For many they are not needed (in the opinions of others, often myself, too), but that does not make them bad.
Hella fat dudes 🙇♀️
Running over a Gypsy and not saying sorry abt it so her dying curse is simply the word “thinner” 💊
This could be that Harry Potter meme too.
Controversial ngl.
Becouse of you.
"Thanks for your opinion, fuck off" -Women
Blembelemablelelleel ooooajajakkakaka
This