AI Art
2y 9mon ago by lemmy.world/u/ReadyUser31 in dontyouknowwhoiam
common furry L
Furries are like one of the main customers of artists
they are also one of the main driving forces of custom trained generative image models tho.
You are the main customer of 3rd grade school yard insults
Lmao that comeback
Damn, y'all just blow in from 2005?
You think he's wrong about the mental illness aspect? Genuinely curious.
Yeah, I mean what about being a furry indicates mental illness? (ignoring for a moment the negative connotation associated with mental illness by the original comment)
People with sensory issues don't like being touched, loud noises, bright lights, and extreme smells. In what situation could they cover themselves with padding and a giant mask/ sound attenuator that doesn't touch their face that much? Fur suiting!
It doesn't?
All I see is unhealthy mental thought patterns. It screams mental illness. Many things attempting to be normalized these days seem like obvious mental illness.
unhealthy mental thought patterns.
By that metric, pretty much everyone is mentally ill.
I'm curious what you mean by unhealthy mental thoughts and what kind of things you think shouldn't be normalized
What patterns are you referring to?
I don't think it's relevant and i think they said it because they think something is, like, morally wrong with people with mental illnesses.
I promise you that you are not more normal.
Takes out popcorn from the microwave
The greatest DYKWIA I've ever seen
Don't you know what I am
Did You Keelhaul Will I Am?
Wonderful.
This burn is far too much for the likes of Neosporin. This Atsuhiko needs a hospital.
WHOA! I used to post in a forum with Jessie over 20 years ago. I didn't know she worked on Invincible! That's awesome.
Destroyed in seconds.
Abominable Intelligence
The characters in the meme are literally on the cover of the first pictured show in her credit roll.
The meme was pulled from a show that SHE animated
That's literally her art.
But isn't the reply is right?
What's the relation between using other people art and the user credentials? Should the AI art okay as long as the one published it already has good credentials?
Public education has gone down hill. Reading comprehension is at an all time low
sorry, meme recognition wasn't taught in here
Meme recognition? It's just reading the fucking text that's right there, dork.
There's no mention of Invincible in left side picture, how am I supposed to know that?
Okay, so now I get it, you're just trolling.
It is indeed possible to not know what show the meme on the left is from...
That's 100% possible, yeah, but that's not the point and that's not why I accused then of trolling.
It goes back to reading comprehension. This user is either incapable of seeing the context supplied, or being dense on purpose. All they had to do was see they're an animator who has a list of shows avaliable, and even if they don't know what that one show is is, the implication of the two images being supplied together is it IS their art. That's pretty straight forward context clues involved. This sub is "Don't you know who I am", which isn't even subtext, that's a direct message to the meaning of the material presented.
They however couldn't possibly grasp this very simple idea and instead took to arguing when it was pointed out.
Yes, you rightfully pointed out that they lack deduction skills. That doesn't mean they're trolling, in fact they immediately admitted their fault after it being pointed out.
I consider myself not lacking in deduction skills and it took me a while to figure out. I was just browsing and didn't even notice what community it was in. Only after I went to the comments where all this discussion already happened did I get it.
This user is either incapable of seeing the context supplied, or being dense on purpose
Or the user speaks English as their second language. What may be obvious to you may not be for someone who's still learning and needs a little extra mental overhead to understand. I'm not sure why the only two options you give are stupidity or trolling
They said in their reply that there is no mention of invincible on the left. They clearly know the show and are trolling.
It's possible. I didn't know. Now I do, and now I get it. Hell, there might be stuff even you didn't know. Knowing is that way.
This isn't about "good credentials", the person making the post was actually an animator for Invincible (where the image is from).
So it's the artist posting a meme with their own art from a series, someone accusing them of stealing the art (saying they are as bad as AI) while the artist was actually part of the team that made the series. What is there not to get?
And aside, memes are memes, that specific image conveys a concept in a way that another, custom made, image wouldn't.
I had no idea until you explained it. I'm not familiar with any of that content. So thank you.
But couldn't it be easily inferred from the right-side of the image?
I explained that in another comment. I thought the humour was supposed to be that he could do art but choose to use someone else's art.
I'm not good with riddles.
That the image is from anime called Invincible, sorry not knowing that
I didn't know that either. It was more than obvious from the context.
Check it out if you have a chance, it's pretty good, and I'm not usually into animated stuff.
Lmao Invincible isn't an anime
By the japanese definition it is. It isnt by the bastardized western definition of it.
It’s not “bastardized”, it’s what “Anime” means in English (and arguably every non-Japanese language). It’s a way to differentiate them, like here in Italy we call US cartoons “cartoons” instead of the Italian word for it.
Because people decide to colloqiually change what it means in context, but the problem is, most people cant even agree on a definition of what is and isnt anime because there usually exist some counter example to show that that focused definition is incorrect.
For example, if someone defined it by being animated in japan, Batman the animated series, would be considered anime due to it being animated by Sunrise (which shares the same art style to The Big O, an Anime). Its a borrowed word whose definition was changed from the original definition because people are too lazy to say japanese animation. You them go through the rabbit hole of what would you call animation studios that are purely outsourced.
While other countries animated studios already have their own word for their animation (Aeni for Korea, Donghua for China), the choice for japans is breaking its original meaning.
I think most of the anime community agrees on more or less MAL’s definition: “An animated work created in Japan for the Japanese market”.
Sure, there’s animation studios that outsource a lot, but it’s usually just inbetweens, rarely Key Animation. Directors, screenwriters and other positions are almost always Japanese.
Has exceptions, where some anime like Cyberpunk Edgerunners is primarily designed for westerners, and published on a western companies streaming service(netflix). Is Edgerunners not anime?. Like i said, there are always exceptions to more strict definitions that arent the japanese one. Keep in mind, thr average japanese person hasnt even remotely played or heard of cyberpunk 2077. Japans pc business isa growing market by still severely smaller than other asian countries, and home console adoption in japan is low. (And abysmally low if you count xbox in japan) Cp2077 is also not on the switch.
Then you have examples that are not as favorable in japan and run because they are extremely popular outside of japan like Vinland Saga. Is Vinland not anime because the target audience is mostly people outside of japan at this point.
CP2077 even won GOTY in IGN Japan. And yes, Pc and Xbox aren’t that common, but PS4 is extremely widespread. It was definitely a success in Japan as well.
And both Edgerunners and Vinland Saga launched with a Japanese Dub on Japanese platforms. They might’ve bet more on the oversea market to get the budget back, but they were still made as products to be watched in Japan, unlike Batman, My Last Day or other “borderline” cases.
Ps4 adoption in japan is lower than the vita(around the time where marketing was relevant) vita is at 6m sales, ps4 is at 9m now, but at the time of marketing, was about the same.
Let alone, the experience of 2077 on the base ps4/xbox to be abysmal. The practical size of the userbase that would be even able to play the game is extremely low.
Theres a HUGE reason why the head of playstation decisions is from the American branch and not the japanese one.
That’s because Japan is pretty much the only country where the Vita sold well. More than a third of its sales are in Japan.
And they even mention in that article that despite the launch issues on ps4, the game was well-received.
Plus it doesn’t even really matter since Edgerunners has been announced 5/6 months before the game was even released, so the actual reception in Japan was probably not a factor in distribution.
Its not a factor... because it wasnt the target audience. It has dubs because thats what they have access to on hand and that some people would enjoy it in japanese. But the target audience was definitely western.
But that other stuff didn’t get dubbed. Dubbing is a choice, and not a cheap one, especially in Japan. They even got KENN and Aoi Yuuki for the lead roles, it wasn’t some second-thought dub “just because”.
The MAL definition has been tested for years and has proven to be pretty effective (most other sites have a similar one afaik), the biggest detractors are the ones who think stuff like ATLA or RWBY (main series) should be considered anime just because of the style, but they’re generally ignored in database matters.
having a dub is just a choice, like having any american cartoon having a japanese dub is a choice (e.g if you've ever heard japanese dub of spongebob or king of the hill for example). It's a choice that trigger made because they were targetting people who watch anime, but not necessarily for japanese people. as the end target regardless was westerners.
Studio Trigger has history of targeting the western audience for its random projects. Take for example Little witch academia main and side projects were all kickstarters(over japanese alternatives). One of the side projects was a VR game, something a lot of Japanese people do not have their hands on.
KENN is barely known outside Japan because his most famous anime work was on Yugioh GX (which everyone watched dubbed) and the rest of his fame was mostly live-action musical performances. He’s not a seiyuu you pick if you want to appeal to westerners.
And yes, they do stuff on Kickstarter because it’s more known in the rest of the world, but that doesn’t mean they’re only targeting the rest of the world. They just wanted as much budget as possible.
LWA having a VR game is also barely relevant since even Kaiji has a VR game and the amount of people who know Kaiji outside of Japan is probably less than the Japanese people with an Xbox.
The Kaiji VR game had a switch port, as well as has a mobile port, both which would have much larger japanese audiences, something the LWA vr game lacks.
But, as you said, those were ports. The game was made to be a PSVR exclusive, and was funded according to that. I don’t think they’d do that if they didn’t know it was worth even without the ports.
Anyway, I wanted some clear stats for Edgerunners so I dug up Netflix. This is its third week, and at the bottom you can see only 7 countries had it in the top 10 for 3 weeks, most of them being asian. It went pretty damn well there too.
other countries in asia is different than japan because virtually all other countries in Asia are very PC centric. Japan is the extreme outlier in asia.
That doesn’t change that, at least in relation to Netflix viewership percentage, it went better in Japan than in most western countries. It didn’t even get Top 10 on launch week in the US.
its better in japan, because its essentially a netflix exclusive, where usually other anime is watched via their local networks. it's induced popularity through exclusivity.
It’s a Netflix exclusive everywhere, but it still worked better in Japan. It was undeniably a success, and I think that’s enough to qualify it as a product made (also) for the Japanese market.
Keep in mind, at everywhere else, they also have to compete against netflixs definition of anime (which is a step below japans definition of it) which also has marketing tied to it.
Prime video in japan is more popular than Netflix (which is BY FAR not thr case in the west for the most part)
Sorry, I didn’t really understand the first paragraph (I just woke up so that might be a factor), what’s Netflix’s definition of anime and why does it matter for marketing?
Also yes, Prime Video is more popular than Netflix in Japan, but that’s also the case in the US, which has around a third of the streaming service userbase, so it’s not really that much of an outlier.
Netflix definition of anime includes shows like Castlevania, which some people do not consider anime. Its only a step back from japans definiton as it doesnt include all other kinds of animated work as to a japanese, Spongebob for example would be considered anime.
Yeah, now that I see what’s included in the catalog it is pretty weird, but how is that relevant in Edgerunners’s reception in Japan and/or outside?
How people consume media on said platform and all platform affects rankings. The average japanes person watches anime off local network like ATX, Tokyo MX and such, which devalues some anime on atreaming aites in japan, unless they are exclusive. This is not the case for other regions where having a channel with a lot of anime options is not really a thing, so everyone is primarily watching it via streaming. This then gives more viewership to mainstream anime because the tv option is no longer/was never viable, thus mainstrean anime float up rankings in outside media. But sink in japan because theyre watching it elsewhere.
But none of the series in the US top 10 for those three weeks were anime (or animated at all).
Meanwhile in Japan, LycoReco and Spy x Family still went well on streaming services even if they already passed on TV (even there, a lot of people prefer watching stuff on streaming to having to schedule your day in order to watch tv programs at a specific hour).
In particular with Spy x Family, it had a broader appeal, and was not limited to just anime fans. Its of the few shows that were watched universally by japanese audiences. So habits of watching it on tv werent necessarily done by those users. Very very few shows reach that benchmark
That’s true… but I still don’t get how this would support the fact that Edgerunners didn’t do well in Japan. Because it did, even in relation to other, more Japanese-tailored Netflix exclusives like Kotaro lives Alone or Romantic Killer.
Its not that edrunners didnt do well in japan, its just that the shows target audience wasnt initially japanese or pitched in a way that they were expecting a lot of japanese people to watch it. Having japanese is something tagged on due to the game supporting several languages, and it being worked on by studio trigger, who already has a history of working with western companies who do projects like these.
Studio trigger on its own brings a lot of specific people to watch their show, regardless of target audience. Its of the few studios to get people who "hate mecha, but actually has almost never gave mecha a shot in the first place" to watch mecha (via indirectly with TTGL, or Directly via Darling in the Franx, or Promare). Its this audience on why they had also included japanese dub because some of that audience has some pretty strong opinions on dub vs sub, even though realistically speaking, japanese dub would only make sense if all the characters were from the Westbrook district of Night City.
And they were expecting Japanese people to watch it exactly because Trigger is a popular name in Japan too (and because CP2077 was eagerly awaited there as well).
I think the difference between Edgerunners and stuff like BTAS is pretty clear (not to mention Sunrise and TMS only worked on a small selection of BTAS episodes from what I’m reading, the large majority was produced in the US)
Its the time period. Various 90s and some early 2000s shows used japanese animators to animate the show. Xmen Evolution used Japanese/Korean talent to animate it.
Mook animation was one of the major studios who were japanese and animated several shows in the 90s/early 2000s.
But again, one thing is using Japanese animators in an American production, and another is an entirely Japanese production that just has a distinct western influence. Most of those shows didn’t even get broadcast in Japan later. I think the difference with Edgerunners is still pretty clear.
The definiton never states that the producers had to be japanese, and is rarely what people say about what constitutes what is and isnt anime. That's why the western definition is a super bastardized term, as there is no concensus about the definition, even between companies, and the ONLY consistent definition is the japanese one
Arguing wether production matters is the argument of which is more inportant for item production, who designed it who produced said object (e.g Apple is an american company, but not all people agree that an iphone is "made in america")
“Created in Japan” means that the production company (or at least one of the leading production companies if multiple) is Japanese.
And yes, the definition is muddy around the web, but when it really matters for stuff that needs to be definite (like databases), there is one, pretty much universal definition. Outside of that, if people like to call Castlevania an Anime in casual discussions it doesn’t really hurt anyone.
Invincible (where the image is from).
Are we all expected to just know that?
Not at all, but this is how this sub works. It usually goes:
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Person A posts something
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Person B tells them they stole it or have no clue about the topic
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Someone brings up that Person A is actually the owner of the thing, or a leading expert in the field (see the right side of the the meme in this case)
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(optional) Person B finds out they are dumb and apologize
And at no point does OP actually explain what the fuck is going on, just act smug when we don't immediately know what they're on about.
No... that's why they added the part on the right.
Could have just told us outright.
They did - out right
But it still doesn't help someone unless they start researching the movies shown.
I first took it as, he used someone else's art, even though he could do his own art. shrug
I took it like that at first but used my deductive reasoning to see who posted the tweet, why they would include two pictures, what it all meant.
Inductive, but yeah
How does an electrician know if a circuit is live?
He uses conductive reasoning
thanks
Yeah I didn't find it interesting enough to do that, but it is an obvious solution
You're expected to infer that it's from one of the shows listed on the right, both because the creator's name is listed there and because the community's name is "Don't You Know Who I Am?"
Wouldn't it have been easier to just say that?
The picture provides proof, so it makes more sense to do it that way.
Doesn't stop OP from actually using a title that helps explain literally anything
If you need literally everything explained, that's okay, but you have to understand that it's not on everyone else to cater to your level of intelligence.
I mean, why share the joke when you can act smug towards people who don't get it, right?
Context. Are we still doing that?
Evidently not, when you could just explain nothing and act smug.
Fair enough, but it was also a reference to Archer, a joke if you will.
On the OP. I went from top left, than down, then to the right. Saw the meme template (I didn't know what was it from), and read the replies. I saw the imdb page and thought "Oh, this meme must be from that show and he wrote it. Burn! Hah. That's funny."
And that was it. A fairly certain conclusion given the context.
I literally had never heard of Jessie Lam, or seen or heard of the invincibles before this post. I inferred that they were one of the artists for that show based on the words and context in the images in the 12 seconds it took me to read it.
You're just dumb, sorry buddy.
When the "good credentials" are "drew the art"...
The original poster (Jessie Lam) worked on Invincible as an animator, so they did use their own art for that meme, which is a screenshot from Invincible.
On the other hand... animators usually sell their work to the studio... so "technically" it is no longer "theirs", they have no right to use a copy without the studio's permission... 🤷
They aren't really talking about the copyright in this context. Also artists can usually still claim the work they did with a studio as their own and show it to others at their discretion, they in fact usually put their work in their portfolio to show to potential future employers, or other animators, or even just an online following. Spencer Wan for example likes to post the line tests/animation tests/keyframes/storyboards/etc for some of his animation sequences on twitter, and has done so for Castlevania, The Owl House, Spider-verse, etc. Animators just can't sell the same work for profit or provide the completed project in its entirety, at least not without permission. There may be restrictions on how early they can show their work publicly depending on the contract, but that's usually to prevent major spoilers or leaks, and varies between studios/projects. Also, they still get credited for their work in the project they worked on in the credits, so it's not like they would be completely divorced from it even if they weren't allowed to share it separately. It's still classified as "their" work.
Yet the original characters Invincible and Omni-man were created by Robert Kirkman, who did not illustrate the original comicbooks (I think). Man, this thing goes deeeep.
The picture in the meme is a screenshot from the show. It's not about who created the characters or drew the original comics, it's about who drew that screenshot.
Only one person draws for most animation studios.
This specific person drew for this specific animation studio which created the screenshot in the meme.
It was a joke about ownership and the complications of working with other peoples IP. Something AI-enthusiasts could probably relate to.
It isn't as deep as you think it is
That's what she said.
He said, in a not uncommon self burn
The point being?
Did that person draw that specific frame all by themselves? If no then it's still using others' copyrighted work + own input.
It's absolutely incredible that people are such bootlickers for billionaire projects that they'll see this tremendous slam dunk and then go to the comments trying to defend the person who just got dunked. Like, seriously, you really think that's going to convince people?!
Yeah the ball went in the hoop, but this is also essentially trashing the entirety of meme and edit culture.
Funny how Luddite paint pigs were perfectly fine when Microsoft's dalle was the only player in the game and didn't start screeching about ai until after open source image generation software got released. And yet you conservatives still call people bootlickers.
What the fuck are you talking about?
I'm probably more liberal than you, and you're a moron.
They also were inspired by other creations. Like Superman's strength and flight ability.
Everything is inspired by something.
It shouldn't be. That'd stealing work from others and I doubt most are paying the original artist
So what you’re tell me all artists in history should be sending residuals to the first caveman to draw on a wall?
You know what, sure, let’s go with that. Maybe copyright enforcement is the way to discovering time travel in this reality.
I will issue you a challenge: create art inspired by absolutely nothing and 100% orginal.
Why would I agree to a challenge that I know is impossible?
I thought the implications of my sarcastic comment about the first cave painting was that there is no 100% original or inspiration-free work of art at this point in human history. However, there is a difference between plagiarism and transformative work.
Dante’s Inferno is based off the Bible. Does that mean Dante should have given all credit and proceeds of his sales to the Church? Jesus? God? That’s what my cave painting joke was trying to highlight.
Dude, I'm sorry.
I wasn't drunk or hungover yet posted a reply to the wrong person. That was meant for the touching grass user.
I totally agree with you.
Don't be silly, residuals only last until 70 years after the artist's death... that caveman died thousands of years ago. /s
Absolutely. If you create a piece of art. Its precious and anyone who ever looked at that piece owes the artist something. This debt should be paid for life and beyond for all time. End of story
You're delusional.
That's sarcasm, right? It's hard to tell some days
Rule of thumb: no "/s", no sarcasm.
You sound like someone who cannot or does not make art.
I'm demanding eternal payments for shit nobody wanted while putting it out on every platform to market it like an ebusker
What's the point of shared open spaces if I cant monetize them and take everyone else's shit down with DMCA claims.
I'm 100% artist baby
Okay, so you've confirmed it.
Sorry you can't make art. Some day you'll find joy. But not today because you sound like a miserable cunt, but someday surely.
Yes artists are miserable cunts.
You're an idiot.
Don't worry. I can understand sarcasm without markdown.
Bruh
The only true artist is Ooonga Baloonga, who invented art when he drew something roughly resembling an animal on a random cave wall 6 bajillion years ago. Everything since then is derivative bullshit, lifeless imitations of his unique vision.
I bet the first painting wasn't of an animal, it was probably porn a fertility deity.
That's the argument they're making against people who think LLMs are inherently theft.
Nope, I think you should try to listen again.
That's the point. It's supposed to be a facsimile of s man. The whole plot of the show is a critique of comic book tropes and the consequences of idolizing superheroes etc
Exactly. It's like Elon pointing at a SpaceX rocket and saying that he made it.