I'd rather use Edge than Chrome.
But basically screw everything except Firefox at this point!
Edge gets some points for having a horizontal to vertical tab layout switching button. It’s still no Tree Style Tabs on FF, but better than whatever Chrome ships with.
Do you find it annoying that Tree Style Tabs does not hide the "regular" tabs? My only problem with it.
I use userChrome.css to hide that. However, if Mozilla wants to focus on customisability, like that one WIRED article said they were focusing on, simple stuff like this should be toggleable, either by the user or an extension. Apps that replicate Vivaldi's Workspaces feature (like Simple Tab Groups, or Sidebery with its panels) already have the ability to hide/show tabs with your permission, can't see why they can't just hide the tab bar...
It used to be so easy to hide the top tab a few years ago. There are clever some ways to do it still, but I like the flexibility of being able to hide the tree tabs and use top tabs if I do a split screen view. Maybe there is a new CSS hack to toggle them on and off that I’m not aware of.
Pretty sure I used to have a tree style tab view, using a plugin. Is that what you meant or is a plugin a privacy issue?
There was a plugin for Chrome that was in a separate pop-up window.
Exactly. The only point it wins from me is AD identity integration in a work environment. Other than that edge and chrome are the same garbage.
Edge at work, FF everywhere else.
AD based SSO works in Firefox and is configurable via their GPO plugin templates
winget install Mozilla.Firefox
No need to even open Edge or Chrome
Seems a little extreme for a browser switch
Micro$oft enshitifying Windows was extreme enough for me. Should've done it years ago.
Huh!? I’ll be! Learn something new every day.
Is that limited to what’s in the Windows App Store, or is it using some other backend?
winget has a community repository of installer and utility-zip urls and checksums. It's not limited to win store.
Windows has a package manager now?
It's been around for a while and is exactly what you'd expect from Microsoft. Chocolatey is better, but not built in.
Man I feel bad for the developers at Microsoft who have to implement this shit
I wanna be in one of those brainstorming meeting where people thought this was a good idea
Ah, you're looking for the product managers.
I don’t have a dog in this fight since I’m a longtime Firefox/Linux (or Apple if I have to sell out) user but I hope people keep doing whatever they’re doing now just to see how far Microsoft goes with the begging.
If anyone is wondering, the reason I don’t use either is: I’m a longtime web developer and I know the value of an open web built on open standards. It’s more valuable than Microsoft or Google. Firefox (and the Mozilla Foundation) basically exist to shame the corporate browser vendors when they get greedy and stray from open standards.
I don't download chrome using it. I think Edge is actually better than chrome, but I use neither. Firefox is where it's at. I hate this assumption that everyone loves chrome.
Edge is actually really efficient. Over the years I've gone back and forth between the browsers as each seems to go through periods of inefficiency.
I agree with you. I really prefer Edge to Chrome, just the fact I can have vertical tabs directly in the browser is awesome. But I still prefer Firefox over both of them even if I believe (conspiracy theory) it lags behind Chrome on features because Google pays Mozilla and it is probably in their agreement that Firefox must lag behind in some features.
It’s really sad because edge is actually not a terrible browser. There are some questionable features that have been tacked on but nothing that makes it particularly terrible. The real issue with edge is the marketing, and Microsoft’s force-you-to-use-it-until-you-like-it approach. It just really sours an otherwise perfectly acceptable browser. Even Apple lets you set a default browser and doesn’t try to trick you back into Safari if that’s not your preference.
This was about chrome not being as good, not about edge ^^
Because IE was shit so people may assume Edge is just like IE.
Besides, Edge is just a customized Chromium, so it barely brings nothing new the table.
Seriosly, what mess is Edge! Had to use it once, so many useless buttons and double features!
Gnome web is not usable. It crashes.
Yeah I never gave edge a fair shake. Yeah partly because of IE, but also because I’m not going to use a Microsoft operating system to open a Microsoft browser and search with a Microsoft search engine. Especially after Microsoft has had trouble with anti trust in the web browser realm, as well as because they pushed it so fucking hard I got spiteful.
Anyways my spite blossomed into me being a Garuda, Firefox, duck duck go user
A few times I used a jump host to search something with edge and got so frustrated and overwhelmed with the search results. It's then, that I realized, I was using bing. Boxes of shit here and there, 2 search results, some more beyond a box. Fuck me. Just gimme a god damned list.
I loved Edge when it was a browser.
Now it's a trojan to make you use Microsoft services that you don't want to use.
Crazy ex vibes from that browser.
I can't believe people are still actively choosing chrome over Firefox
Yeah, not using edge and then going to chrome is a little weird, as it's essentially the same browser, just a different company that gets your data.
Why bother downloading Google chrome when you're already on Microsoft chrome?
Because "microsoft browser bad" is how it's always been. It's like the story (afaik it's made up) about the five monkey punishment lab test, at this point most people don't have a clue why anymore.
What a ragebait article. Shit journalism.
When users open and wait for the Chrome download to begin, Microsoft opens a sidebar and presents users with a poll that interrogates users on why they think they need another browser.
An optional survey in a sidebar that doesn't block anything is not an interogation or demand. It's a question, a request for information.
Their aggressive wording is disingenuous sensationalism.
A good article or criticism would be fair in wording and criticize Microsofts activity for what they do, not lie to bait.
Can I please have access to your computer so I can open sidebars on websites that I deem appropriate? If not, why?
Besides the point.
The article doesn't talk about that.
Just shows how deeply edge analyzes the users traffic.
Deeply??? It's as simple as "If url = chrome download, show survey" it's not decrypting or digging or searching. It's literally right there. It's the thing showing you the website. Of course it's going to know what site that is.
Why the fuck is it detecting the download at all?
It has zero business doing anything like that. It's monitoring a "competitor" via your fucking computer.
That's the fucking problem, not the fucking size of the sidebar. It's the fact that it exists at all
Dunno what you're addressing. Neither me nor the article talked about the size of the sidebar nor the evident user behavior condition.
As a general thing, yes, that's something the article could have fairly criticized but didn't.
The last time I downloaded chrome, I got two of three separate little "no, wait, pls, I'm a desperate, thirsty data slut and I need your data from as many places as possible, don't give it to Google instead!" alerts.
That's not what the article is about though. Nothing like that is mentioned in the article.
Edge is chromium based. So asking why you prefer chrome instead is a valid question for them to ask.
Since never has it been valid for software to disobey the user’s instructions and interrogate them.
I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
"disobey and interrogate" 🙄
Refusing the user and issuing a challenge? It's not for the user's benefit, so not sure why you're defending it.
It doesn't refuse anything...
It does exactly what you ask it to, and opens up an optional survey to the side.
No need to make things up. You can try just reading the article first.
Market research yes, baking advertising begging into your os, no
Edge is actually better than Chrome, but I wouldn't recommend either.
Edge has way more useful features, while both browsers are bloated messes with tons of spyware.
great response you've typed there.
https://kinsta.com/blog/microsoft-edge-vs-chrome/
Microsoft claimed that Edge was 112% faster than Chrome when it first came out. It’s hard to pin down how accurate this exact stat is, but plenty of users around the web have run their own tests and come to the same conclusion: Edge is faster than Chrome.
For example, Avast tested many browsers and found Edge to run faster than Chrome, Firefox, Opera, and Vivaldi.
Chrome also has a reputation for heavy resource consumption.
Tom’s Guide ran a test on this and found that Chrome used more RAM on various tests. For example, with 60 tabs open, Chrome used 3.7 GB, while Edge only used 2.9.
Spite! Spite is the word of your undoing!
Actually at this moment I spite Google more than I spite Microsoft. Like if there were only two browsers in universe and my Firefox was gone. I'd use edge as I hate Google more atm.
Edge is basically Chrome with a Microsoft skin, btw.
Never owned a Windows computer and never will. I have no idea why anyone puts up with bullshit like this. On Linux, I tell it to install something and it just fucking does what I say. Don't even need an account.
Unless it requires a different version of node.js that cannot be upgraded as it requires an older version of some other software, but cannot be upgraded because that other software needs just that particular version and will stop working if you dare upgrade, so you choose to upgrade anyway, so your package manager refuses to upgrade anything now because you broke something just to get that new software to work.
I love linux, and until recently used it exclusively on my own computers, I know all/most of these are solvable, but as a long time novice who's sick of fixing these things, it's a real life scenario.
I currently choose between upgrading my browser (which refuses to load several accounts as long as it's not upgraded) and software I use as a hobby which won't work if I let synaptic package manager fix whatever it deems broken.
Currently using windows almost exclusively for day to day work, and dual booting mint for one single purpose. Hating windows with a passion while doing so but life is too short to fix dependencies...
I have an anecdote with some long-ish accompanying rambling nonsense that boils down to agreeing with you.
I've had Linux systems on and off for years. I think I started on Slackware (it's been too long to remember). I just installed EndeavourOS on a laptop with good compatibility the other day.
First, systemd-boot problems. Fine. Live USB, command line. Fixed. Then Bluetooth problems. Edit config file. Fixed. Wouldn't connect my third monitor. Another config file, apparently. Fixed. Wouldn't switch to my dGPU. Still not fixed, but at this point I have lost interest in fixing. So no gaming on Linux on that system because I can't be bothered.
I also loaded Windows because I prefer a fresh install to removing bloatware. Installed. That's it. It worked. Bluetooth, third monitor, GPU switching, the works.
Once it's running, assuming I don't run into the same problem you're running into, Linux is fairly bulletproof. But your average person has no interest in editing config files and playing around in the terminal. They want to buy a computer, maybe install a browser they're comfortable with, and get on the Internet to do whatever internety things they do. They don't need to spend time getting things just right because they live in a web browser and possibly Office (although that number is pretty small for home users).
People don't care. You're right, life is too short. I want to go to a concert, go sing karaoke, ride a motorcycle, build a cabinet, play a game, or go have a drink. Others may want to go watch sports, go hiking, go rock climbing, go to a wine tasting, or go out with coworkers. Grandpa wants to whittle on the back porch and maybe cook some ribs. College kids have school, parties, social clubs, and activities.
When Linux is someone's hobby, that's great! It means they like something and I'm all for people enjoying themselves. But I think a lot of those folks forget that most people just can't care about how they get to the Internet as long as they can get there. Because all a laptop is to most people is an Internet machine.
It would be like someone who is into woodworking as a hobby wondering why these Linux guys aren't building their own desks from scratch. They're sturdier and could last a lifetime if properly done. It's super easy to build too! Way easier than those wobbly things from Amazon and made of real wood.
Love it! Exactly my sentiment.
Linux was definitely my hobby twenty years ago, loved solving problems, getting everything to work exactly as I want it to. I actually found some great solutions to problems arising from using old hardware (will never forget the many hours/days/weekends I've spent without ever managing to get ir remote to work).
It was exciting and interesting and fulfilling.
Twenty years later, I still meddle with things, I would have loved to have that sort of time on my hands, but I don't. I did find a distro that was absolutely perfect for me out of the box, it used debian as a base, which is what I know, very light and works great with older hardware (bunsenlabs in case you're interested).
After a few years of bliss, It didn't like the versions I needed for software I wanted to use for my hobby - which no 'regular' user would be interested in by the way. There was no update for a while, I got fed up, and blamed myself for not managing to use some solutions that manage installing multiple versions of the same software for use by different programs. Gave up and installed Mint - the most vanilla distro, no street-cred, but should just work, right? Well, not really. I'm sure npm and other three letter tools can help, I just don't know how to use them.
I still love bunsenlabs, the perfectly intuitive shortcuts. I miss openbox and i3, and miss using keyboard-only 98% of the time. I even miss my old 13ish year old x220 and x230 which run fast enough to be my main laptops, only to be replaced recently for some reasonable battery life. I hope I'll manage to get things working again (will only try in a few months, after accomplishing something I've been trying to do for a couple of years now but couldn't because I couldn't get the software to work up until now). I also hope bunsenlabs come out with a new version for me to install by then, it was bliss, something that just worked perfectly (including bluetooth, dual screens, sleep, wake up, audio, everything a windows computer is expected to do.
This is too long for not saying much, but one last thing : New laptop t14 Installed linux mint - everything seems to be working fine. Installed windows 10 - had to connect to wired network to download lenovo drivers for WiFi!
Have you considered installing the browser as a flatpak or something if you have a specific dependency clash between the browser and your other software?
Thanks! I might try it, it's not urgent, will find some time to deal with it eventually. I really do prefer linux, mint was supposed to be stable, well maintained, and progressive. I actually installed it after giving up on a lighter but not as well maintained distro, hoping it'll solve everything.
You are best served by NixOS.
Normally Arch or Debian is a great option, but not this time.
Haven't read anything about it. Will look it up, thanks!
Right now? Mainly just used to it and haven't felt like messing with my computer to that degree in a while. In the past it was because of a lot of programs that only work on windows, also games.
I’d rather deal with windows and this than to use Linux. Apparently a survey is doing too much
It's more about it being the needle that breaks the camel's back. Windows does tons of small shitty things, and they keep adding more.
I’m just saying none of those are worth the switch to Linux. Not if you use applications that only work or work best on windows and to a certain extent Mac. Chrome and Microsoft do it to each other , it’s nothing new. Download your browser and move on.
Well, I personally disagree. Windows just keeps getting worse meanwhile Linux just does what I tell it to do. It feels much nicer to me.
You see how that works though. They express windows is apparently worse than Linux because of a survey. But I could say the same thing about I have no idea why anyone would want to use Linux and restrict themselves to an inferior product.
One survey in a browser that’s made by the os developer is fine and people just like to over react if it’s not their precious open source software. Putting up with using Linux seems like even more bullshit if you use any application that doesn’t support Linux.
Either way , they’re free services so who care.
That's right, the only complaint about Windows is this one survey. 🙄
We could make a list of complaints about either but most people would still use windows before touching Linux. It’s that simple. Of Linux was that good , why isn’t everyone just flocking to use and develop for it. 🙄
If Linux Mint was the default operating system on 99% of PCs, guess what most people would be using.
I mean you probably don't care but try running anything Adobe or commercial 3D software on Linux. It's still pretty shit for casual gamers that don't wanna get into the technical stuff. I'm sure there are a lot more industries that need to rely on Windows because of specialized software that either isn't available on Linux natively or just runs like crap through wine.
Fair point with Adobe but I was pleasantly surprised when I tried gaming on Linux. Stuff just works, zero technical knowledge required. Run Steam, launch the game.
Not sure how long ago you tried gaming but Valve has done an amazing work for gaming in Linux.
Linux famously doesn't play nice with game anticheats like EAC
The slow adoption of functional Linux anticheats in a couple of games I play is the exact reason I use a customized windows and not Linux. At least for now
Steam deck and Proton hopefully will force this issue to be solved faster in future though, here's hoping
Microsoft shareholders are demanding more and thus they are getting desperate.
Microsoft needs to be broken up for being a monopoly.
We have so many monopolies, has this even ever happened in recent history? It's a joke.
Because fuck you that's why
I just can’t stand being pushed on something constantly. I don’t use Edge out of spite. I can be honest about that.
Eeeeevvvry damn post about browsers I see the same garbage posts about using Firefox. You have become the vegans of the browser wars.
You mean the ones on the right side of history?
Then don't use it, but don't complain when your experience inevitably gets worse.
I don't get why people have such a need to be contrarians for stuff that is in their own best interest.
That’s an annoying, albeit admittedly accurate comparison.
So what are you using?
Always have been
Hurry hurr MS bad. Edge is great. Google bitches like an insecure former partner every time you open Google shit on edge.
Why defend one company’s monopolistic abuse over another’s?
I literally cannot conceive of what life choices must have led you to publicly simping for MS. You appear to do it a lot...
Yes, MS is bad. Google too.
Yes, life by edgy meme is definitely the way to live.
Saying Microsoft is a shitty company isn't an edgy meme.
If you find criticism of $2.5tn tech companies to be too edgy for your tastes then perhaps a public forum where we discuss tech isn't the best place for you.
You don't deserve these downvotes. Google indeed wines like a little bitch if you open it in Edge
I'm a moderate on lemmy. I know what I'm getting into.