an_angerous_engineer

We Are the Envy of Our Ancestors

1mon 7d ago in collapse@lemmy.zip from www.collapse2050.com

While people living in past civilizations at their lowest points might be willing to trade places with us, the vast majority of humans for the vast majority of human history would not be. When offered to join the ranks of the civilized world, "uncivilized" indigenous people consistently turn down the offer. They think that we're all insane.

The past 20,000 years are not all of human history. Prior to the development of civilization, life was actually pretty good for most people. They also didn't have to worry about most of the things in that article. The only significant material differences were higher infant mortality, and lower overall material wealth (but this lower material wealth did not mean a lower quality of life, in general, as people's lifestyles and culture were adapted to that level of wealth). The lack of medical care was largely a non-issue, because those people did not suffer from the diseases of civilization, were typically naturally resistant to bacterial infections due to diet, and what infectious diseases did plague them were generally unable to spread very far or very fast because the different groups were not constantly forced to intermingle in tight indoor spaces at large scales.

This whole article reinforces a false narrative known as the "Myth of Progress". This is a very dangerous and toxic myth that undermines a lot of people's reasoning about what the future should look like. This is intentional - the myth of progress is propaganda pushed by the state via school curriculum and academic publication bias (though this latter mechanism is starting to fail - most academics now reject the myth of progress) to warp people's sense of what life could be like.

I would recommend that people read books like "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston A. Price, "Civilized to Death" by Christopher Ryan, or "Goliath's Curse" by Luke Kemp to get an overall better picture of the relationship between living conditions in the past versus the modern day.

To clarify, I am not suggesting that life in the stone age (or prior) is the human ideal and that we should go back to that. I am not a primtivist (though I am aware that the collapse of global civilization may limit our options, realistically). I am merely suggesting that we can't assume that life in modern civilization is as much better than life in the past as so many people claim. We should be looking at all of human history and taking the best ideas from all parts of it to inform a model of how we should be doing things going forward. In order to do that, we can't let myths cloud our perception of what the past was actually like.

I think that others have done a sufficient job of answering the main question. I have things to say about the secondary questions:

how badly damaged is it?

I am wondering how it would be possible to reverse or remove that opinion of so many.

I've actually put quite a bit of thought into this problem. Countering the intentional destruction of language in general seems to be basically impossible to do directly because of how many people there are who have no particular interest in figuring out what the word really means, and who just perpetuate the current zeitgeist via sheer inertia. It also doesn't help that there are a great many who claim to be anarchists who actually want the term to be misunderstood. The nihilistic version of anarchism that you're calling out is perfect for sociopathic individuals who want a world without accountability.

My conclusion is that the word itself has become effectively destroyed and unusable (except in contexts where you know that your audience is made of the small subset of people who actually understand what it is supposed to mean) and needs to be replaced. However, attempting to just invent a new term for the same ideas won't quite work either, because it will just be equated to the old one, and destroyed by the very same actors as before. We may be able to buy some time, but we need to do something about the forces that work to destroy the language itself if we want a lasting solution.

We need to learn how to protect ourselves from the actors that consistently sabotage our efforts to communicate, form communities and institutions, and actually accomplish objectives. We need to learn how to recognize those actors reliably, and keep them out of our spaces. Feds and such aren't really the main issue here - it's the people that claim to be our allies but instead subvert our rhetoric and activity to their own selfish ends that we need to be most wary of.

Once we can keep our spaces clean, we'll have control over our language again, and we can use a new term or the old one. Those who are actually interested in doing good can be kept safe from the interference of bad-faith actors as long as they are able to find their way into these spaces.

The pathology of compliance.

4mon 13d ago in anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com

You want to learn about narcissism, narcissistic abuse, and, in particular, what happens to the victims of sustained narcissistic abuse. The victims end up suffering from 'codependency' or 'self-love deficit disorder' depending on who you talk to. Your mention of 'pathologically stable attachment' is pretty close to talking about one real aspect of codependency. There are attachment disorders (like anxious attachment disorder) that will cause people to hyper-attach to others (especially abusers).

I do not say this to name-call, per se - but rather to give you some keywords that you can use to learn more about what's going on. I will also recommend this youtuber, and in particular her Glossary of Narcissistic Relationships playlist. She's also written books if you would prefer that format instead. Most information on this topic focuses on interpersonal relationships (intimate ones, especially), but it is trivially applicable to other (larger) contexts.

One of the best things you can do for someone who is suffering from codependency is to help them learn about narcissistic abuse, so that they are even able to recognize what is being done to them. A big part of the apathy that you are observing in people is just plain normalization. They literally don't even recognize that they are being abused. Once you get past this barrier, helping them heal from the trauma and develop far healthier responses to abusive situations becomes a whole lot easier.

Permanently Deleted

8mon 16d ago in anarchism@lemmy.ml

Goliath's Curse by Luke Kemp

Not directly about anarchism, but instead about anthropology. I find that a lot of discussions about anarchism end up going awry as soon as people start injecting some common myths about anthropology into the mix. False assumptions about history and human nature will lead to ineffective conclusions about how to deal with it.

‘Self-termination is most likely’: the history and future of societal collapse

10mon 19d ago in collapse@lemmy.zip from www.theguardian.com

It's not like it was never alluded to:

"Then as elites extract more wealth from the people and the land, they make societies more fragile, leading to infighting, corruption, immiseration of the masses, less healthy people, overexpansion, environmental degradation and poor decision making by a small oligarchy. The hollowed-out shell of a society is eventually cracked asunder by shocks such as disease, war or climate change."

(bold added to highlight indirect mention of overshoot by other names)

The reason that overshoot isn't really a focus in this article is because the author has recognized (correctly, IMO) that overshoot is just a symptom of a much deeper problem - large-scale domination by narcissistic/psychopathic individuals.

When I am talking about narcissism, I am talking about something much broader than NPD. The ICD 11 revised the whole section on personality disorders so that they are no longer separated into clusters (A, B, and C) and are now characterized on a per-individual basis by a combination of atomized descriptors. One of the major reasons for doing this was because there is a lot more overlap between them than the categorization of discrete disorders implied. The lack of empathy that characterizes narcissism was present in basically all of cluster B and frequently occurred with several disorders in clusters A and C.

Narcissism is way more common than you think. I estimate that they make up at least 1/3 of the population, and probably more like 1/2 (and exactly how I've arrived at these numbers is something I'd want to write about). Those "regular" people who are "pushed" into egotistic behavior? They're actually low-grade or covert narcs who are being given permission to be narcissistic by our culture.

The capitalist system does work as intended, but the reason that it is intended to work the way that it does is because it was designed by narcissists from the very beginning (another topic we'd be discussing, with sources), and it serves them very well. They weren't a hidden cabal, though, and the emergence of modern capitalism didn't happen overnight. The system gradually emerged piece by piece as various people tried to solve various problems (and it probably all started with the issue of distributing portions of tribute to one's lackeys).

If you’re going to vilify an entire group of people, do so based on their actual behaviours and not on the personality trait(s) that they share.

We are villifying them based on their actual behaviors. It just so happens that when you look at the reasons for those behaviors, you see that it is caused by a personality type/disorder, and as such, naming the group that behaves badly in this way also essentially names the personality type/disorder. You simply cannot separate the two concepts, because they are causally/definitionally linked. As such, it is paradoxical to simultaneously condone discriminating against the behaviors and condemn discriminating against the personality type.

So yeah, I know what you are talking about, but what is that new community exactly supposed to achive?

The central thesis or hypothesis, if you will, is that all of the issues that we are dealing with today (authoritarianism, late-stage capitalism, fascism, sexism, racism, systemic ecological destruction, the destruction of the concept of truth, etc...) are fundamentally rooted in narcissism. The point of the community is to explore this relationship, and take advantage of that perspective to discuss effective strategies for dealing with these problems (generally via dealing with the underlying cause - the narcissism itself). When you start casting the polycrisis through the lens of narcissism, a lot of the conventional ideas about how to address those issues fall apart (including many ideas that are common in anarchist circles).

I expect that the bulk of the content would be focused on analyzing the connection between the psychology of narcissism and various aspects of politics/economics in both historical and contemporary contexts. For example, one thing I expect that we would spend a lot of time discussing is exactly how authoritarian societies emerged from the egalitarian ones that were ubiquitous prior to the development of agriculture. We would also discuss things like how the dynamics of capitalism map really nicely to the transactional nature of narcissistic relationships, or how various elements of modern social etiquette practically seem to be designed to enable narcissistic abuse (e.g. Gossiping would pretty thoroughly defeat a lot of narcissistic "splitting behaviors", and yet it is often taboo).

Besides analysis, we would also discuss effective strategies for dealing with common problems in a way that is narcissistically-aware. Moderating communities, both real and virtual, would probably be one of the most common topics of discussion in this regard. Maintaining a space so that it is inclusive, especially one that is public, while also preventing abusive behavior is really challenging, and there are lots of subtle ways that things can go wrong that a lot of people overlook because they don't realize just how insidious bad actors can actually be. We can talk about more conventional direct-action strategy stuff too, and in a lot of ways I would expect those discussions to look a lot like similar discussions between anarchists that you've seen elsewhere. It's just that we'll be taking into account the fact that we have an actual psychological model for how the bad actors will really behave, and so we will be able to adapt our strategies accordingly.

I hope this helps you understand what I'm going for here. I'm not trying to make a hate-club or anything. I think there's genuine insight to be had here that could be very helpful for a lot of people.

What happens when you stop paying taxes or rent? What happens when you stop working for the money to do those things? It won't take all that long for you to end up an the receiving end of state-endorsed violence. Being a wage slave is not really that different from being a prisoner. The cage is just a little nicer, and a little more subtle.

What you seem to fail to understand is the amount of suffering that is caused by these bad actors on a daily basis for the vast majority of people alive. Until you really understand coercion and the subtle but pervasive violence of the state, you will probably never be able to see where I am coming from. Nevermind that I've already explained on other comments that the steady-state would be about 1% of the population that needs to be coerced. The current state of things is temporary, due to the fact that we live in a culture that is doing its very best to create as many of these bad actors as it possibly can. In the long run, even by the same metrics and standards you are using now, the scheme I propose would come out way ahead.