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Lemmy Developer AMA and Dev Update, 2024-01-26, 1500 CEDT

2y 4mon ago by lemmy.ml/u/dessalines in announcements@lemmy.ml

This is a chance for any users, admins, or developers to ask anything they'd like to myself, @nutomic@lemmy.ml , SleeplessOne , or @phiresky@lemmy.world about Lemmy, its future, and wider issues about the social media landscape today.

NLNet Funding

First of all some good news: We are currently applying for new funding from NLnet and have reached the second round. If it gets approved then @phiresky@lemmy.world and SleeplessOne will work on the paid milestones, while dessalines and nutomic will keep being funded by direct user donations. This will increase the number of paid Lemmy developers to four and allow for faster development.

You can see a preliminary draft for the milestones. This can give you a general idea what the development priorities will be over the next year or so. However the exact details will almost certainly change until the application process is finalized.

Development Update

ismailkarsli added a community statistic for number of local subscribers.

jmcharter added a view for denied Registration Applications.

dullbananas made various improvements to database code, like batching insertions for better performance, SQL comments and support for backwards pagination.

SleeplessOne1917 made a change that besides admins also allows community moderators to see who voted on posts. Additionally he made improvements to the 2FA modal and made it more obvious when a community is locked.

nutomic completed the implementation of local only communities, which don't federate and can only be seen by authenticated users. Additionally he finished the image proxy feature, which user IPs being exposed to external servers via embedded images. Admin purges of content are now federated. He also made a change which reduces the problem of instances being marked as dead.

dessalines has been adding moderation abilities to Jerboa, including bans, locks, removes, featured posts, and vote viewing.

In other news there will soon be a security audit of the Lemmy federation code, thanks to Radically Open Security and NLnet.

Support development

dessalines and nutomic are working full-time on Lemmy to integrate community contributions, fix bugs, optimize performance and much more. This work is funded exclusively through donations.

If you like using Lemmy, and want to make sure that we will always be available to work full time building it, consider donating to support its development. Recurring donations are ideal because they allow for long-term planning. But also one-time donations of any amount help us.

Is there a public roadmap of some sort?

Maybe a blog post like "a year in review and what's up for this year"

I'm not talking about bugs or minor tweaks. Just a general where are we, where are we coming from and where are we going to? What are important milestones?

I've just updated the post body with some updates about this, but if we get approved for another year of funding from NLNet, the the two new devs will be working on these milestones in 2024 (still a draft at this point).

Being an open source project, we can afford to be less strict about a roadmap, as anyone (including ourselves) can take on any of the open issues on the issue tracker. Part of the fun of these is getting to pick which things you'd like to work on, and that you personally think are important.

Outside of maintenance-related tasks and merging PRs (which does take a significant chunk of our time) of course @nutomic@lemmy.ml and I both have things we'd like to prioritize this year. My main priorities are:

  • Getting Jerboa as fully functional as lemmy-ui.
  • Notifications (Unified push).
  • Working on lemmy-ui-leptos, our proposed replacement web UI for lemmy-ui written in Rust.
  • Performance improvements (DB, federation code)
  • Stabilizing the API
  • Becoming fully funded by donations, and growing our dev co-op.

Thx! Goodluck and enjoy the path

I think a lemmy roadmap for the next year is hard, because scope and even individual features depend on funding (for example, nlnet funds specific features).

Maybe something like Mastodon's roadmap would be possible though (with no specific timeline)? https://joinmastodon.org/roadmap

I wouldn't put a timeline to it. Just a list of features, broad and specific. As time goes on, they can be marked as "in progress" or "included". New things can be added over time, or made more specific. All without timetables. For now call it a wishlist.

That would actually be nice.

Check the NLnet milestones in updated OP.

The AMA is upcoming on Friday, it's not this thread

Edit: Leaving this here

It's OK to post questions here:

Feel free to post and upvote questions beforehand in this post, as it will turn into the AMA tomorrow.

I stand corrected!

"Feel free to post and upvote questions beforehand in this post, as it will turn into the AMA tomorrow."

:)

I stand corrected!

Something tells me you're gonna be pasting this a lot šŸ˜„

Has Lemmy.ml been contacted by law enforcement yet to hand over user data? If yes, when was it, and what did you hand over?

Nope, never.

whats that thing where a company has a 'we have never been contacted by law enforement or have been forced to disclose data' sign on their website that theyll take down to implicitly inform users theyve received a request and a silencing order

Warrant canary. I doubt those really work because law enforcement could easily require you to keep updating it.

could you try regardless?

I'm pretty sure all user data is public already.
PMs might be the only thing not everyone can see.

IPs and access logs, plus email addresses aren't public and are the kind of thing law enforcement wants.

So many apps die before getting any users. For Lemmy however, when was the first time you really thought "Damn, this thing really might actually take off"?

For me it was long before the reddit migration (which was ~7 months or so ago). I noticed lemmy slowly but surely gaining traction. It felt more dead than it does now, but the trend was slow and steady growth, which is always a great sign. People were using lemmy, liking it, and sticking around.

At the same time, it was clear that we weren't making the mistake of all the other reddit alternatives, by promising to be a free speech haven for bigoted communities. Those people actively did our work for us by warning their communities to stay away from Lemmy and its tankie devs, thereby making Lemmy a much more enjoyable place from the very beginning. That was a crucial test: we were not willing to sacrifice our values for growth's sake.

It's great to see that positivity confirmed by a researcher who did a qualitative and quantitative analysis about Lemmy migration, and finding that >90% of people saw themselves using Lemmy in the long term. We can all be very proud of that, and it means we have a bright future.

Lemmy was meant to be a Reddit replacement from the beginning, so it was always supposed to take off. Even in the early days the tech was working quite smoothly and users were happy so there was no real doubt about it. The only thing missing were more users. However I had no idea how a real migration would actually look like, so it was really overwhelming when last year people started to flood in and everything got overloaded and broke down.

What could be done to improve interoperability between federated platforms?
mainly talking about Mastodon since it is the biggest one.

I have seen the Peertube dev is quite nice and approachable. And willing to improve the experience cross-platform.

Have you tried to approach @Gargron@mastodon.social? Is he willing to contribute? How could we get Mastodon to improve the user experience with federated content, eg. communities and article posts?

What about @dansup@lemmy.ml / @dansup@mastodon.social and Pixelfed?

There have been lots of compatibility improvements with Mastodon from our side. However Mastodon seems to have almost no interest to make improvements from their side. I dont think there is much we can do about that, in the end project maintainers always care about their own users most.

With dansup there was some communication years ago, but it seems he lost interest in Lemmy.

Mastodon's main dev isn't really open. Have a look at the "Ego" part of this article: https://cassolotl.medium.com/i-left-mastodon-yesterday-4c5796b0f548

Misskey forks, whatever their names are today, seem more interesting

While I agree with the content of that article I don't know if we should give up on Eugen just yet. The Mastodon team has not disclosed what their plan is regarding the groups rework currently on the mastodon roadmap. There is an old proposal here, but I think we have good reason to believe that implementation will be revisited. To that end, it is very important to advocate for the adoption of FEP-1b12 which is the standard that Lemmy uses.

It may also be a good idea to advocate for the adoption of FEP-d36d both here and on lemmy. This is a standard for group-to-group following. Effectively allowing communities to subscribe to other communities.

Here's a slightly older but fairly comprehensive write-up of the situation: https://blog.erlend.sh/group-convergence

I think there's a risk of lacking a coherent direction if decision-making is outsourced too much to the community. Furthermore, core developers might lose ownership of the project and then lose interest. As long as it's open source, I'm pretty happy to have the core maintainers develop projects according to their own vision, and the community fork it should this vision differ too much from their own. :)

As long as it’s open source, I’m pretty happy to have the core maintainers develop projects according to their own vision

The problem is, after we as users helped Mastodon to grow strong the dev thinks it is better to do stuff outside of the standards so nothing works for other fediverse platforms. He has too much power and most people are mindless.

the community fork it should this vision differ too much from their own. :)

Definitely :)

Mastodon’s main dev isn’t really open. Have a look at the ā€œEgoā€ part of this article

That article was over 5 years ago now. I would expect that there has been massive change now that Mastodon is way more popular, and the project is way more involved. Also, blocks and mutes do work now.

Quote posts are still not there, they are on Misskey forks

https://fedi.tips/why-cant-i-quote-other-posts-in-mastodon/

They are on the roadmap, but that doesn't say much.

Also something to be said about how a thing or two has happened in the last five years. Whatever Mastodon is doing seems to be working for a large number of users.

It's not for everyone, and that's fine. The freedom of choice is why we're in the fediverse in the first place. But the fact is that quite a few people want what Madison is offering. :)

Interoperability is great, but sadly there isn't really any organized group effort to standardize more aspects / extensions of ActivityPub. AP is really "thin" in that it barely prescribes anything. There's not even a test suite to test whether software complies to the spec of AP.

So everyone kind of does their own thing, and fixes interoperability on a case-by-case basis. This makes it kinda frustrating to spend time on - lemmy already has special cases for many different softwares (peertube, mastodon, ...) and every one increases the complexity.

There are such efforts on SocialHub and on a W3C mailing list. However devs of major Fediverse projects are rarely active there, because they are all busy working on their own software.

Very interesting question since mastodon introduced groups very recently which are a direct competitor to lemmy

TIL, I'll have to have a look

https://fedi.tips/how-to-use-groups-on-the-fediverse/

Of course not mature but mastodon can have groups without lemmy

This is not native Mastodon groups, but a third party group functionality (a.gup.pe).

Mastodon has group support high up on its roadmap (MAS-15), but it's not implemented yet. :)

Worth noting, we are not totally sure the upcoming groups rework will actually improve federation with Lemmy. To that end, we should all be advocating for the adoption of FEP-1b12 which is the standard that Lemmy uses.

Not a question, just wanted to let you know I how much we appreciate and love you all for making Lemmy happen 🄰🄰

Thank you! Its great that you have been around all these years.

Thx a ton!

Do you think Lemmy is decentralized enough right now, or are you worried about some of the bigger instances growing too much?

Its definitely a concern. IMO the lemmyverse is far too centralized at the moment. The big questions are:

  1. Is there a trend toward centralization, or away from it?
  2. How are people being introduced / onboarded onto lemmy?
  3. What can we do to combat centralization?

(1) I'm honestly unsure, and I'd def appreciate if anyone has done a study of it. We've seen a big growth in single person / smaller topic-focused instances, which is a great thing, but if their communities aren't growing, we need to figure out how to reverse that trend. I'd have no problem with the current large instances, including this one, as long as the long-term-trend is away from them.

(2) Is mostly word-of-mouth, join-lemmy.org, and apps / web-ui's which show an instance by default.

We've made the sort for the join-lemmy.org instances page be by random active users, and tried to emphasize on that page that it doesn't matter which instance you join, since most federate, and can subscribe / connect to any community. I hope that helps, and we need to replicate that wherever we can.

Apps and webUI's mostly just show lemmy.world rn, where they should show random instances. I'm guilty of this in Jerboa as well (showing lemmy.ml by default), and I've just opened up an issue that it should be showing a random server for anonymous users.

But I think we need to do more, and I'd def appreciate yours and anyone else's ideas on how we can combat centralization. We need to get ahead of this problem before it gets worse.

But I think we need to do more, and I’d def appreciate yours and anyone else’s ideas on how we can combat centralization.

I am admin of the biggest Brazilian instance, but I am welcoming more local instances and talking to the admins we should spread the load. But what I notice is the users are concerned they will miss out if they are not in an instance that already have everything.

Could we have an easier way to auto-federate every new communities from a given instance? Even an "auto-federate everything possible" option. as @nutomic@lemmy.ml said lemmy DB isn't too big, most instance owners could have it on their servers. And making it opt-in won't hurt the small instances.

It would be relatively easy to write a script/bot which fetches the list of communities from a given instance, and then subscribes to all of them from another instance. In fact I heard something like this already exists, but dont know the name.

Lemmy Community Feeder? https://github.com/Fmstrat/lcs

I think it's worth bringing a solution in house. A recommended migration route. If you want people to feel confident to pick any instance, you have to give them the confidence to move easily and not fear picking a small instance that might die when their owner gets bored. A simple setting option to migrate from, then you select the account and either (through communities accessible, or through automated request, pull that data and subscribe to communities. Maybe blocks etc also.

boost.lemy.lol?

Maybe not auto-federate / auto-subscribe, but we do have an issue to federate a lightweight list of communities among servers, that could help with this.

Its true that the disk space required isn't too big a deal, but it would unecessarily increase the CPU and network requests by auto-federating the entire lemmyverse, rather than using explicit subscribes.

I know lemmings.world has a bot that subscribes to the most popular communities to make sure those are federated

Is there a trend toward centralization, or away from it?

Writing a script that calculates metrics similar to those used for measuring income inequality should be fairly easy.

I think its totally normal that instance sizes follow a power law distribution. Its similar to many other things, for example there are few large cities, some medium cities and lots of small cities. The wiki article lists many other examples. So I think its fine as long as there are no intentional attempts to lock in users into large instances or limit federation.

The big instances are bad enough but big communities are absolute killer of decentralisation

When you go to /c/books on your server, you don't see an agglomeration of all /c/books on all servers of the fediverse. You only see that server's /c/books, if it even has one.

This is a fatal flaw of lemmy which concentrates power enormously into the hands of the owners.

The default view should be all /c/books on all federated servers, with an easy way to filter only local posts.

Lemmy will turn into reddit if this is not quickly rectified.

I kind of get where you're coming from, but to me it sounds like you're looking for a different experience than what Lemmy is designed for. It seems you are more interested in aggergating all posts about specific topics (like "books"), and strongly limiting the effect of moderation (as nobody would have final say about how to moderate an entire topic). If I correctly understood the experience you're interested in, then for sure the design of Lemmy will not match that.

I don't think it's fair to describe this as a fatal flaw, though. Lemmy is not built around the idea of generic, "ownerless" topics, instead, it's built around communities with clear owners. We have decentralization at the admin and infrastructure level (as in, a single admin does not control the entire network), but this does not really mean we also need to have it at individual community level.

IMO it's totally fine that different people create different communities with extremely similar purposes. The entire internet as a whole also works like this - the internet itself is decentralized, but at the same time people can create different websites with very similar purposes (and even domains!), and it works out fine. For example, it's totally possible for there to exist a news.com, news.co.uk, news.ee, news.fi, etc. Imagine if whenever you navigated to news.fi with your browser, it would also automatically insert content from all the other news websites of all possible domains - it doesn't really seem like a useful feature, but that's kind of analogous to what you're suggesting for Lemmy at the moment.

Thst makes lemmy , a reddit with many /u/spez , but in practice it will end up like the actual internet of today, where only 5-10 sites control everything.

This process is already far along on lemmy, already very centralized and all the incentives are in place to make it even more centralized.

I expect the settlement of the defederation war, will create 2-3 cliques of the largest servers that each silence the rest of the lemmyverse on their property.

Give it a little time and they'll probably make themselves fully private cliques.

When you go to /c/books on your server, you don’t see an agglomeration of all /c/books on all servers of the fediverse. You only see that server’s /c/books, if it even has one.

What prevents from visiting /c/books@anotherserver?

Genuinely asking, because this is one of the core concepts of Lemmy and federation

Doesn't books@lemmy.ml and books@lemmy.world direct you to yourinstance.org/c/books@lemmy.ml and yourinstance.org/c/books@lemmy.world respectively?

Yes, syntax link like /c/community@server is incompatible with http.

I already posted to anotherserver/c/books and no one ever saw it.

Posting anywhere but biggestinstance/c/biggestcommunity is functionally the same as not posting at all.

And of course, the owners of biggestinstance/c/biggestcommunity believe in everything you don't believe in and they really don't like you in particular.

Welcome to new reddit, same as old reddit

I already posted to anotherserver/c/books and no one ever saw it.

Did you promote that community on newcommunities@lemmy.world and other promotion communities? Did you actively post on your new community, to attract users to your new one?

I'm going to take two examples I personally had

  • I'm not a fan of having all discussions on LW, so even if movies@lemmy.world was the most active one, we decided with a few others to start animating moviesandtv@lemm.ee. It is now the most active community on that topic.
  • I like the show "the Office". dundermifflin@lemmy.ml is the historical community, but as some people are not fans of lemmy.ml, we moved to dundermifflin@lemm.ee, which is now the most active community on this topic.

I guess that shows that community takeover is possible, and does not need additional tools, just some time and dedication.

No, that defeats the entire point.

What point ?

The point of becoming a moderator that decide what everyone can and can't say ?

The point of "making another reddit but I'm /u/spez" ?

The point of me having my own control over my instance. The bad moderator thing will always be a problem.

I don't see how agglomerating vuew of all same name communities for the user impact you as a server owner ?

You still have totalitarian control over everything happening on your server.

You can still

Delete all post and comments

Change any text in any post or comment even if made by other users and without their notice

Ban any user

Ban any community

Even ban all users and all communities (whilte only model)

I must’ve read your comment wrong. Sounds like you just want a multi Reddit type feature? I agree that that should be implemented some apps have already did it. I don’t agree that the same word community should be lumped together universally and automatically.

No multireddit cannot solve this problem.

They are not a default agglomeration view so they will never make a difference as most users never change their defaults.

Covered in more details here

https://lemmy.ml/comment/7734804

A community cannot escape the stranglehold of moderators with a multireddit, because most users will simply not have it the backup community setup in their multireddit. They will never see dissenters posting in the backuos. And that makes multireddit largely useless

Who are the moderators in this scenario you’re talking about?

It's an hypothetical community, so they're hypothetical moderators/owners. I'm not sure how to respond to "who are they".

They're some bad hombrƩs..

Your argument through all of this is bad moderators controlling the largest communities so I’m wondering how what you’re saying fixes any of that.

Makes communities other than the one big one visible to nonlogged and default users without extra steps.

In effect this makes all communities global by default.

maybe communities should be able to flag that they're the same community as one on another server, and if they mutually do so be combined into one metacommunity that people can search for

If it requires the owner's consent, it defeats the purposeof my proposal.

It is expressly to disempower the owners in favour of the users.

I really don't hate this idea from a lemmy centric UX perspective but how do you handle federation with other platforms?

As someone who is on a medium sized instance, I can say its a little awkward when Lemmy[.]world goes down

Firstly, thank you so much for providing the means for me to cut Reddit out of my life, I feel like I'm engaging with content in a much more deliberate way since, and honestly it's been a massive improvement to my mental health in a way that I was completely oblivious to there even being a problem before.

Anyway, the question—regarding things happening entirely out of your control, what would be the best and worst things that could happen to lemmy from your perspectives? And as an extension, what are your goals for it?

Thx! Its pretty wild to me how much these algorithms, and formats, affect our mental well-being. Those giant US tech companies employing Psychology PhDs to figure out how to keep people angry, engaged, and watching ads, is doing so much harm to so many people, not just in the US, but the whole world, and unfortunately very few countries are doing enough to protect their people from these companies (who also act as surveillance arms of the US state) by blocking facebook and the rest.

I've seen two professors I respected turn into angry children on twitter, in a way that would never happen in real life. Reddit, twitter, and Youtube platform reactionary rage-bait to get people trapped in a downward spiral of negativity. These companies do not care how much damage they do; all that matters to them is their profits.

We don't have those same incentive structures, so we can and should be doing everything we can to make this a positive and enjoyable experience, not about arguing constantly, but about learning, laughing, and understanding.

what would be the best and worst things that could happen to lemmy from your perspectives? And as an extension, what are your goals for it?

The best thing would be that we continue our slow and steady growth. Every user that migrates away from big tech to the fediverse is victory, so while we shouldn't emphasize growth at any cost, its still a good thing when we can get people away from all that negativity.

The biggest concern for me about Lemmy, would be a centralization onto one big server, that tries to replicate all the worst things and behaviors about reddit: its combativeness, xenophobia, bigotry, pro-US-foreign policy agendas, and advertising. There is a noticeable chunk of Lemmy's users who don't really see any problem with those things, they just want a reddit that lets them use 3rd party apps again.

The best thing would be if Reddit goes the way of Digg. Seems that will happen sooner or later. The worst thing, maybe if funding stops and we are unable to keep working on Lemmy. But even then admins could still host Lemmy instances.

The best thing would be if Reddit goes the way of Digg.

Well, it has already. The only reason it hasn't fully imploded & all the users deserted for another site, is because there wasn't an equivalent place to go to.

They were sort of parallel in development but digg blew up and Reddit didn't then Digg took a quick hard turn towards enshitification.

Reddit has done the enshitification but like a parasitic infected spider, it's wandering about and most of the users haven't realised yet that it's an empty shell.

It's slow demise would be better in the long run than a quick collapse like Diggs so it's now putrid culture is not transmitted with an enmass exodus.

Couldn't agree more. I'm still hopelessly addicted to the format but at leat now I'm sticking it to the man at the same time lol.

Were you ever approached by any kind of organization making some weird proposal regarding lemmy?

Some company (dont know which) wanted to make a one-time donation of 500 Euros to get listed as donor on join-lemmy.org. Rejected because thats only for recurring donors. Does this count as weird?

A few, mostly harmless tho, just about working on pet features they'd like to see in Lemmy. None panned out.

I imagine the more parasitic companies avoid us as soon as they see the AGPLv3 license.

People, avoid to ask repeated questions and keeping it one question per comment is generally better.

Yes thank you. Sometimes it feels a bit overwhelming when there are 10+ questions in a single comment, and each of them requires a little essay.

also people should search the issues on github, a few of these questions already have issues filed with discussions in them, put a thumbs up on a github issue if it's something you want

Back when the first Reddit exodus happened, there was a group heavily DDOSing many of the popular Lemmy instances. While it was a great opportunity to optimize Lemmy, did you ever find out who that attacker was?

I don't think we found any specific groups of people attacking Lemmy. I personally just saw one or two what looked like individuals trying (and succeeding) to take Lemmy down with a few very simple requests that forced Lemmy to do lots of compute (something like fetching the next million posts from page 10000). The fixes for those were simple because it was just missing limits checking.

I'm not sure if there actually was a larger organized attack. Lots of performance issues in Lemmy simply appeared simultaneously and compunded each other with a rapidly growing number of active users and posts.

What happened with the domain Lemmy.ml when Mali took back controls over its domains and some sites went offline? Are you confident that the .ml domain will be reliable in the future?

We're paid up on our current registrar for a few more years, but I honestly don't know how much that can be trusted. Its pretty difficult to get clear information on which ones are safe, and which ones aren't.

If lemmy.ml goes down, it will be a major annoyance as we migrate domains, and will likely have a day or two of downtime. Even outside of DNS yanks, we do daily DB backups, and have our pictures backed up locally as well, so a full restore is possible, but federation would definitely have issues, and would probably need to do a lot of re-subscribes. Overall tho, it wouldn't destroy the lemmy project or anything, and if people migrate to smaller servers in the process, that would give us a lot more time to code šŸ˜„ .

I apologize for that tho , it was something I didn't forsee and wasn't even thought of many years ago when I registered.

Have you considered migrating while you still have control of the domain? You could at least make the domain redirect in that case. Though not sure if federation could somehow pick up that lemmy.ml has moved elsewhere.

Seems a bit too risky, because there's always the possibility that our current registrar will be fine, and just make whatever agreements they want with Mali's government.

If lemmy.ml goes down, it will be a major annoyance as we migrate domains

I recommend lemmy.su for obvious reasons if that ever happens lol

I'd be very curious how you guys migrate to a new domain if you ever need to, maybe there will be an open source tool to help with it, and maybe some improvements inside Lemmy's code, like api calls from both domains to initiate the migration

There's some instructions here, but I haven't tested them recently: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/backup_and_restore.html?highlight=backup#backup-and-restore-guide

We might be able to make something inside lemmy's code that could do a lot of that for you, but someone would need to open an issue and work on it.

I meant stuff like other instances updating your domain name for all its users/communities, fixing their subscriptions and stuff

First, I want to say thank you for the incredible job you already have done in this area. However, do you have any thoughts on further improving some fundamental Lemmy UX painpoints? Examples such as:

  • Migrating accounts between instances
  • Tagging users across instances
  • Linking communities across instances
  • Finding communities across instances

Migrating accounts between instances

Isn't that implemented in the 19.2 and later versions? I just migrated using that feature a few days back, worked quite well

That would be awesome if true. It's progressing faster than I thought. I'm still just learning about the scaled sort and enjoying that new feature lol.

I'm pretty sure it is there, you can export and import your subscriptions in the settings

It's only subscriptions, blocks, and user settings iirc. Your posts and comments don't migrate for example.

Importing posts and comments could cause a security risk if someone would to abuse that function.

Even Mastodon doesn't support it

Mastodon currently does not support importing posts or media due to technical limitations, but your archive can be viewed by any software that understands how to parse Activity Streams 2.0 documents.

https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/

More importantly it would make exports extremely large and would cause a lot of server load to import/export. Plus you would end up with duplicate posts and comments which seems like a bad idea.

Yes, that's what I meant by security risk, that's like a DoS feature.

Still that's not bad. Wish they could get saved posts to transfer, too. That would be useful.

As @phiresky@lemmy.world mentioned we have improvements coming down the pipe for linking content across instances.

Community linking and user linking do work currently (for example I just linked phiresky above), and a community example would be risa@startrek.website , but we could improve this by extending it to posts and comments, as well as creating a url link standard that would work across apps.

For migration we recently added a feature to export your user data. But "real" migrating accounts is something I put on our "todo" list, though it probably also first needs a proposal to define how it should work exactly (should it still work when the original instance is down?) As soon as we start giving users more control over their private key issues start appearing like not having any infrastructure for key rotation / revocation. Without that it will only work when the original instance still exists.

I'm not sure if by tagging users you mean linking / mentioning them? Or adding tags to them like you can tag posts / users on other platform. For tagging in general there's a pending proposal https://github.com/LemmyNet/rfcs/pull/4. So far it focuses on post tagging though to reduce the scope. I think the goal is going to be to start with one kind of tagging and add more kinds of tagging later.

For improving cross-instance linking (both communities, posts, and users) we also have a open milestone. There's a few spitballing issues about it, but no real concrete proposal on how to build it yet.

Can you add one to your list? Linking posts across instances? Like you can do !community@instance and the community will open viewed through your instance. But for linking posts there is no such equivalent. Like if I make an HTTP link it will be through my instance or possibly the one the community is hosted on which would be annoying for users of other instances.

Also, linking communities across instances is possible already, but you can leave it up since it's confusing. I still see a lot of folks try to do the reddit approach if c/community

Really like your protocol handlers contribution here. Seems tough to square with multiple accounts though.

Turning the fediverse button into an "open on my instance" with similar functionality to subscribing may also be a solution here. Bonus points if it'll also open a comment on mastodon.

What are the plans around admin tools?

Instance owners currently gets notified when someone has reported a user for spamming or trolling, but frequently it's a user that is not on his instance, so he can't do anything about it. Wouldn't it be better if instance owners got notified only when they can take actual action (like the user being registered on their instance)?

If you've been following our code commits / PRs, we've been adding a lot of mod tools improvements not just lately, but over lemmy's entire life. I would even go so far as to say we have the strongest mod tools of any project in the fediverse, all the more necessary for us because of the community-focus.

The upcoming roadmap for 2024 includes some mod additions, such as mod warnings, attaching report counts to items, viewing mod actions for items, etc.

Instance owners currently gets notified when someone has reported a user for spamming or trolling, but frequently it’s a user that is not on his instance, so he can’t do anything about it. Wouldn’t it be better if instance owners got notified only when they can take actual action (like the user being registered on their instance)?

Instance admins are responsible for what content their users see, so if a troll is visible to their users and ruining their day, then it should be taken care of everywhere necessary.

I have seen this first hand. I think when someone hits report it needs to go to the moderator of the community. From there the mod should be able to forward it to where it needs to go.

Instance admins should be able to intersect this process.

There's some more context for this in this issue, and we each have different views on it, because there are tradeoffs no matter what.

My personal view (based on experience modding and admin'ing), is that we should prioritize handling a report ASAP, by the first eyeballs that see it, rather than whose jurisdiction it is. On all but the largest communities, admins are generally more active, and more likely to see the report and take action on it.

Maybe make it go to everyone?

That's what we currently do ( as in the report goes to both mods of that community, and instance admins).

The AMA is upcoming on Friday, it’s not this thread

Edit: Leaving this here cause why not

But it says in the OP that this thread should be used for posting questions for the AMA?

I stand corrected!

No worries :)

Is there an official roadmap for Lemmy?

What are the current needs of the project, if any? For instance, are you currently looking for skilled or financial contributions?

Thank you! Lemmy is a tremendous contribution to the wider Fediverse, and no amount of "thank yous" is ever enough for people like you writing free software and giving freely to the public domain.

I have been on Lemmy, and around the Fediverse on various accounts since ~2021, and a suggestion I have seen promoted countless times is for communities which federate across instances. e.g. posts to Linux@lemmy.ml will show on Linux@lemmy.world as long as lemmy.ml and lemmy.world federate with one another. If I remember correctly, each of you have previously opposed this idea for multiple reasons. If you do still oppose such a feature, will you please reiterate why you think this is the wrong direction for Lemmy? Also, have you considered adding a multi-community feature similar to Reddit's multi-reddit feature which allows end-users to combine multiple federated communities into a single page just for them?

Thx!

I see why people think that's a problem, but in reality, its more of a feature. For example, take communities named !news, that pertain to completely different topics, or locations, based on their instance:

or

These are all news communities, yet should stand on their own: each with their own creators, moderators, users, rules, posts, comments, culture, and topics. It makes no sense to combine or "merge" them given all these differences, in the same way that it makes no sense to "merge" two completely different users because they have the same name.

Also, have you considered adding a multi-community feature similar to Reddit’s multi-reddit feature which allows end-users to combine multiple federated communities into a single page just for them?

Sure! Multi-Communities are an open issue, that I'm sure someone will take on eventually.

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: news@startrek.website

Thank you for making it clear this is a conscious design decision. I very much disagree with it. Multicommunities, like multireddit do not adress this terrible problem. I think lemmy is now doomed to repeat reddit's mistake. Hopefully in 10-15 years the lemmy successor will see the light about this problem.

There's also FEP-d36d which is a standard for group-to-group following. In Lemmy terms, a community could subscribe to another community.

I think FEP-2100 is a much more promising approach because it makes communities more resilient in case an instance goes down.

In Lemmy terms, a community could subscribe to another community.

In this case, why not merge?

I think the major advantage with this model is that it gives those local communities a little more flavor while allowing the same functionality as the large communities (probably a good place to apply scaled sort). It also allows for a sort of curated multi-reddit functionality. Most importantly, it seems flexible and generalizable enough to allow for building advanced group features on all platforms, while still advancing the goal of inter-operability. A more straightforward multi-community functionality or the OP solution would have a lot of unanswered questions regarding federation. I'd be curious to see how kbin does it and whether that federates well. All that said, I think a lot of communities probably should be looking at negotiating a merge.

I always like there are basically two types of topics (because after all, communities are focused on a topic)

  • either you have enough of a userbase to have your own flavour on the topic, for instance all the gaming communities that exist on different instances, which all co-exist next to each other, and it wouldn't really make sense to merge them all
  • or you don't have enough people, and in this case you should just agree on one instance where to host the community and be done with it

I know there is the political aspect to take into account, but for me that comes back to the first point: if enough people of the same political side want to talk about something between them, that's good. If not, they might have to put that aside and go for the second option.

All that said, I think a lot of communities probably should be looking at negotiating a merge.

Strong agree

ooooh I like it!

I'm not aware of philosophical disagreements with that feature, I can just think of logical and technical issues. Like how moderation would federate, etc. If all the mods come to an agreement then the mods on one instance could lock their community and link to the other one. If the mods disagree, then moderation is going to be chaos in any case, no?

I think multi-community views would be a great idea.

What are some cool "Lemmy Adjacent" projects you know of and want to share? (Things like LemmySchedule or Toast.ooo's Canvas)

One that I can think of rn, is @CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 's lemmy-bot, as well as ridoukousage's TLDR bot.

With the web being so ad-infested and completely owned by google, people have noted how the TLDR bot means they often don't have to leave their lemmy app at all, and can stay behind its privacy shield.

While of course I do think we can code a lot of functionality directly in to lemmy in a way that we couldn't with reddit, there's undeniably a lot of potential with bots that can do different things for us.

Please stop using time zone abbreviations. Everyone can read an offset (UTC +02:00 in this case). But almost everyone has to look up the abbreviation

Will Lemmy ever have another source of income like official merch or will it rely on donations for the foreseeable future?

Would people really pay for Lemmy merch?

I think they would, it would be super cool to do art competitions and have the community pick the designs, could do it once a quarter to help boost funding.

Personally maybe with some better art, not with the plain mouse logo

There might need to be a revamp of the logo to make it a bit more appealing.

What I could definitely see happening would be instance-based merch, especially if the community feeling is strong.

May canvas event posters?

To add, recurring donations, no matter how small, help us plan for the future, as we can then reliably estimate how many developers we can support off them. One-offs donations and merch sales wouldn't help us out in that regard.

There was a big time gap between 0.18.5 and 0.19. Have you considered adopting a release train model, similar to what Rust does? The Bevy game engine has also adopted the idea.

More frequent but smaller releases would probably cause less friction and make upgrading less of a "big thing" and "big things" are always where things go wrong.

0.19 was a bit of a special case because there was a set of breaking updates that had to be done at some point, and trickle releasing breaking changes isn't really great either. Usually hopefully the breaking changes are rare, so releases can be more frequent.

Yes once we reach 1.0 there will be way fewer breaking changes and then it will be easier to do more frequent releases.

For sure. Releasing breaking changes frequently would be much worse for stability than increased time between releases.

They normally do have smaller releases (18.1, 18.2, 18.3, 18.4, 18.5) but going from 18 to 19 was a big update that also required a database upgrade. Rust releases don't have database upgrades or anything that is not backwards compatible, so it's not really comparable.

How did you feel when everyone was coming from Reddit to Lemmy?

How's development going? Do you have enough funds to pay your salaries? Did the EU fund run out? What's your workload? Is the amount of full-time developers enough to work on new features? Or is it barely enough to keep up?

How do you like Lemmy and the people on it? (As of now)

Do you have any estimate of how much storage (in GB) all the posts ever posted across Lemmy have taken up, to date? (Excluding media)

Something tells me lemmynsfw has the largest disks. :)

I was told it’s not about the size of the disk but how it’s used that really matters.

Yeah we are told a lot... :)

I should donate to them. I mean... lemmynsfw, what's that?

The porn instance

I'm just playing dumb. I know what it is lol

*A porn instance

I think they have the smallest dopamine receptors

The SQL table for posts is 1.6 GB on lemmy.ml, and 5.7 GB for comments. That probably accounts for a majority of content on the Lemmyverse.

To add, lemmy.ml's entire DB compressed as a xz with -0 strength is about 3.7 GB. But that also includes the activity tables which aren't vital.

1.6GB is impressively small for anything by modern internet standards

I don't think it's that large. Text is very small and compressible compared to images. Well it depends on if you mean the actual database storage (uncompressed, with indexes) or a compressed copy of all the posts. You can see the post number in the URL, which on lemmy.world for this post is 11169622. That means there's around 11 million posts total in lemmy.world's database. If you assume each of them takes 0.5kB of storage that would be only ~ 5 GB of posts.

... is 11169622 ...

Maybe 9 post out of 10 are deleted by the few checks I made manually ...or am I missing something ?

Looking forward to it. Hopefully people will stay respectful.

Any words for Zuck and Threads?

Edit: on a more serious note, has Meta reached out to the Lemmy developers at all?

No, I guess they only care about Mastodon. I will just wait and see how that goes.

We also blocked threats here already, and encourage other servers to do the same. FB is a rabid wolf that would love to be let inside the fediverse.

So far it doesn't seem like any company actually wants to compete in this space (longer-form somewhat text-focused communities). Even reddit is trying to become more twitter and less reddit.

I think Lemmy is a tiny blip size wise.

Will private messages ever be displayed in a threaded or grouped manner?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the current web interface is just a reverse chronological list of all sent and received messages. This can be confusing to follow if one is messaging multiple users over an extended period of time. I think the ability to group messages by user would be useful.

There can definitely be improvements, but I agree that they're low priority. I'm hesitant to put too much work into Lemmy's private messages or its interface, as they're inherently insecure and not E2EE (we even have warnings in the lemmy-ui interface about this).

Its best to rely on messaging apps like matrix and xmpp that were made for that job, which you can add to your profile. We also added a specific matrix_id field to your user settings, which enables a "Send secure message" button.

This is already possible in many Lemmy apps. I built the Quiblr web app and messages are more similar to a messaging app. Many Lemmy apps probably do similar as it's just a front-end change.

Cool! I haven't tried out web apps, but many mobile apps have this feature as well. Would be nice to see this feature merged into the native web interface.

Maybe, if someone implements it. Basically the same answer as all other low-priority feature requests.

A long time ago, Dessalines@lemmy.ml made Jerboa as an Android Native client for Lemmy as an alternative to Boost for Reddit. How happy are you that the OG Boost developer came and made a Lemmy client?

Its a great thing, and its exciting to have @rmayayo@lemmy.world creating an app for Lemmy.

He did? That's awesome. I've been using Jerboa and Sync mostly. How does the Boost app compare to those? Sorry if too unrelated lol.

Feel free to have a look at all the others: https://lemmyapps.netlify.app/

In your opinion, what are the top strengths and weaknesses of Lemmy at this point in time?

Strengths are federation, comment threads, mod tools, app ecosystem.

Weaknesses are lack of notifications, DB code, and lack of funding / donations. We need to support much more that just one or two devs if we want to take on reddit, which is a multi-billion dollar company with hundreds of employees.

I discuss more things I'm going to work on this year in this comment

Strengths: Its open source, decentralized and working quite reliably

Weaknesses: Theres not enough funding/developers to keep up with all the issues

I post a fair amount of video edits. I've had quite a few people say that video playback is far from ideal for not just Lemmy, but the Fediverse as a whole. Is this mostly a 3rd party app thing, or a backend issue? I haven't had much issue myself, but enough people have mentioned it that there is likely an issue somewhere down the line.

It works pretty well on Peertube, only lacks users and quality content.

I'm sure. However, I am not in a position to self host and videos are huge unless you post them as webm which some people might even report you for.

I have ambitious plans about how to turn lemmy into a true Youtube / Spotify killer. But that might not be what you're asking, which might just be simple browser / app video support (IE mp4s, webm, etc).

If that app / web UI has trouble with videos, you might need to open up an issue there.

but the Fediverse as a whole.

FWIW video playback on Mastodon has been seamless for me.

What is currently in the works to help admins locate spammers and problematic users on their instance?

Right now I believe it relies heavily on users reporting and admins looking through a users history however I think that is really inefficient.

Are there any better visualization tools that could be made to aid admins?

Since I read a few comments here... What is your oppinion on more democratic platforms? I mean something like electing moderators. (Or dropping them in a democratic process.) Or voting for other things in a community.

(This is more a hypothetical question. I guess with the architecture as is, it can easily be exploited. And there is no way to implement this properly without severe changes and consequences.)

Seeing my PR here made me feel good. 3 months and ~60 commits for only one lil field was too much šŸ˜…

It's very nice and reassuring that all the commits are audited subtly though.

As developers, what can we do (or not do) to best support Lemmy’s vision and goals right now?

Go through the issue tracker for lemmy or lemmy-ui and look for some simple bug or minor feature that you care about. Then look for the relevant part of the code and try to fix it. You can also make a comment or post in the dev chat on matrix if you need help. Honestly there are so many issues which could be solved in less than an hour, especially in lemmy-ui. That way you can make Lemmy better and also get familiar with the code to make larger changes in the future.

First, thx for working on LemmyNade! The ecosystem of apps growing up around lemmy, learning from and benefitting each other, is really great to see.

The main thing would be to get involved with lemmy's back-end code. Even if you're not a back-end developer, its still useful to us to learn from devs about wanted features, API improvements, and bugs. Many app devs have suggested features that I've tried to implement based on their usefulness, because it used to be just myself who was the one requesting and adding things on both sides.

Is there any new p2p/decentral technology that is trying to advance beyond federation?

It would be cool to have a generic framework to make web resources that are inherently decentralized without the need for sponsor and hosting.

Like IPFS but as a social site. Everyone helps partially host content in exchange for access to all the content.

Sorry for taking up all the space :) But please skip the ones you wish.

  1. How old are you guys? Can be a range if you want e.g. 10-15, 15-20 :)
  2. Do you know each other IRL?
  3. Which region do you live in? Like America, Europe, Asia etc.
  4. If Lemmy had 100 million users, would you still try to remain anonymous?
  5. Is there an instance admin you hate but can't say?
  6. What percentage of users should ideally be in the largest Lemmy instance do you believe?
  7. If you had the chance to change the name Lemmy, would you?
  1. Im 31
  2. Not yet, hopefully that will change in the future
  3. North of Spain
  4. Im not really anonymous, it would just feel weird to post here with my full name
  5. No
  6. Maybe less than 50%
  7. Im terrible with names so no

I'd hope that they are at least 18

What other ideas do you have to increasing funding for Lemmy development?

Wait for Reddit to implode, more users to migrate and donations to increase. It worked last year :D

lol

We could definitely use some help with ideas there. Lemmy currently has ~40k active users, and it should be able to support more than ~1 average dev salary, especially if we want to take on a multi-billion dollar company with hundreds of employees like reddit.

I think short event or campaign with push for donations with a pop up that you actually can dismiss. An ad like banner. The biggest problem would be community organization as Lemmy isn't only decentralized horizontally but also vertically. Different front ends, different apps different instances. Most of them wouldn't want to implement an ad that wouldn't benefit them directly. They also have costs with running their piece of lemmy. So some cut for them should be included.

I think a dedicated trustworthy person should be responsible for organizing this campaign as developer time is best spent elsewhere.

Wikipedia, about once a year, has those donation pledge boxes at the top of every article ...they must be somewhat effective since they come back year after year ...better keep them small though to avoid disheartening users. Maybe start small like this trending community line at the top of the user feed.
P.S. : Since we don't want the user to get habituated it's better if it's just a few days once a year.

First of thanks a lot for the effort that you put into creating lemmy. You have created a really friendly and welcoming place!

I have a question regarding licenses. When you started developing lemmy, what were the reasons for your choice of the AGPL? As you are marxist-leninists, did you also look into other licenses like the the Anti-Capitalist Software License?

Will the source code ever move off of proprietary Microsoft GitHub where users need to have an account to contribute & search code—or certain users are blocked due to US sanctions? If the idea is wanting to stand up against centralized US-corpo-controlled social media for forums, why use that US-megacorpate-controlled code forge / social media platform?

How do you feel about extreme right-wing instances like the late Wolfballs using Lemmy to promote and spread hate?

They were posting spicy memes but thats how the internet works. If you dont like it then dont visit there, just like you wouldnt visit 4chan. Lemmy is open source so anyone can use it for any purpose.

I very much dislike it obviously, and I'm happy that one shut down. There have been others, but for the most part they've stayed away from Lemmy as "that software made by tankies."

Outside of making sure that we don't platform them anywhere, there isn't much we can do. Lemmy is open-source software after all, and a tool can be used for good or ill. As @CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml mentioned, coordinating on adding them to our blocklists and isolating them is the best option.

I hope they're not too against it. I know they're extremely left wing, which scared a lot of the centrists on Reddit. If they allow even right wing instances, then it emphasizes the project's lakc of political bent, and encourages more mainstream people to join. The politics can be up to each individual instance to decide whether to defederate with those other instances or not.

But that's just my opinion, I'm also curious how the devs will answer.

I'm sure they're probably not okay with it but also there's not much they can do about it other than defederate .ml - such is the nature of open source software.

Not that I'm suggesting it, but they could hardcode the defederation of those instances on the code and most admins wouldn't bother to fork lemmy to remove it. Like in the past they had a hardcoded slur filter, but I think they disabled it because many slurs in English were regular words in other languages

Yeah that's a very slippery slope

I think you should be careful with political hate. Its a slippery slope and should not be handled by a developer.

Maybe we could simply focus on having clear rules for each community.

Wolfballs? Was it straight up hate or just run of the mill GOP talking points?

Wasn't here back when it happened, but from what I know, it was straight up white supremacy shit. It got defed to death.

Hi again,

1 - Now that there are multiple apps for lemmy, wouldn't be better to handover jerboa to someone else and focus more on core lemmy?

2 - How was the inception moment for lemmy? When and how did you decided to leave reddit and create something new and how was the first couple months?

Thanks and come to Brazil ;)

Have you put measures into place to assure the quality of future updates? In the past several updates have caused issues. And recently 0.19.x broke federation for the most of us. And it took weeks to fix it and make Lemmy usable again.

Are there any plans on adding features that enable easier interaction with other federated platforms like mastodon and peertube (for example being able to comment/interact with peertube videos and mastodon posts)?

You can already interact with Peertube videos and follow their channels. Thats possible because Peertube also federates groups (communities). With Mastodon thats not possible because it doesnt have groups, and Lemmy doesnt support content outside of communities. At least not without a full rewrite, which doesnt make sense considering that KBin and dozens of different microblogging platforms already exist.

What has been the most rewarding part of working on Lemmy for you guys?

The fact that there is no boss telling me what to work on. Instead I get to decide myself whats most important. Last year before the Reddit migration I was temporarily working for a company, and it was extremely demotivating to be told how to do every little thing as if I were a junior developer.

As a software dev, mainly that people enjoy using it.

99% of the proprietary software work I did for companies was work that was societally useless, and eventually thrown in the trash. Here I get to make software that improves peoples lives in a tiny way, and is a form of social media that hopefully šŸ¤ž doesn't destroy people's mental well-being: is easy to put down, and enjoyable to use.

If you haven't read the book "bullshit jobs" yet, I really recommend it. Encapsulates this mentality very well

When and how are you going to address the thousands of open issues in the Github repository, that contain UI bugs, missing error messages (something looks as if it was sent for example if you send a direct message with too many characters, but actually isn't), backend issues and other assorted bugs?

Where is the best place to propose new features for Lemmy?

Edit: And as potential follow-up, where is the best place on Lemmy to propose new features for Lemmy? (Not every Lemmy user has or wants a GitHub account)

I'm not sur eif it's bad form to answer these questions but for this one I think the github issue page is the answer.

This is correct, its our issue tracker and its what we work from to close issues.

if you don't want to make a github account, then probably lemmy@lemmy.ml

but you can still search and read the github issues without making an account, so you could check if it already exists, or link the issue if you're starting a lemmy discussion about it

Will Lemmy ever become more of an organization? I'm slightly concerned about hostile take overs and or major changes that could be driven by personal views or bias.

Also a organization could facilitate cooperation and organize events.

Regarding funding - Can you give a detailed breakdown of what you've gotten per year and from which sources since you started Lemmy?

I think most of that can be taken from here: join-lemmy.org/donate. If you click through each donation method they each list goals/monthly intake.

EDIT - Minus crypto of course!

It also doesn't have historical data on i.e. how much NLNet contributed (which iirc, was a lot*)

*(a lot in terms of donations - Lemmy devs are living below poverty line. Please donate)

From NLnet we had three funding rounds with 50.000 Euros each.

Regarding server architecture - How many users can the Lemmy network, or the fediverse as a total scale to, assuming the average person posts once per day and reads ~50 comments/posts a day?

The ActivityPub protocol lemmy uses is (in my opinion) really bad wrt scalability. For example, if you press one upvote, your instance has to make 3000 HTTP requests (one to every instance that cares).

But on the other hand, I recently rewrote the federation queue. Looking at reddit, it has around 100 actions per second. The new queue should be able to handle that amount of requests, and PostgreSQL can handle it (the incoming side) as well.

The problem right now is more that people running instances don't have infinite money, so even if you could in theory host hundreds of millions of users most instances are limited by having a budget of 10-100$ per month.

In the future it could make sense to make a protocol extension to send multiple activities in a single HTTP connection. But for now its probably not worth the effort, considering that it would break compatibility with other Fediverse platforms.

Lemmy supports horizontal scaling, so in theory it is only limited by the amount of servers you can afford. Of course there are always unpredictable bottlenecks which need to be fixed, but no inherent limitation.

What does lemmy v1 look like?

This is for all Lemmy devs:

Talk a bit about yourself, likes and dislikes.

Musical taste, movies, whatever, just willing to know a lil more about you as persons

I mainly like Hip-hop, but also good music from other genres. I like all sorts of movies if they are well made, but especially adventure and comedy. Since the quality of Hollywood movies has gone steeply downhill, I mainly watch movies from different countries across the world, and older movies from the 70s or so. I also like video games, at the moment Im playing Baldurs Gate 3 as everyone was praising it on Lemmy (and they were right its a great game).

Is federated authentication being considered for the future? The federated model of the fediverse is great, but it runs into problems when instances ā€œdieā€, you want to access different servers as they federate with different things, etc. leading to the need of having multiple accounts. If there were a decentralized network of auth servers, could use the same credentials everywhere.

Bomber, Ace of Spades or Overkill?

Overkill for me, but to me Motorhead's also one of those singles-type bands where the songs kind of stand individually great on their own, rather than the album. So I usually just relisten to a ~40 song greatest hits of theirs.

Cool which more bands do you like?

Looking at my most playeds: Radiohead, Bjork, NIN, Sigur Ros, GYBE, the War on Drugs, Soundgarden, Smiths / Morrissey, Blondie, Calexico, Talk Talk, Aimee Mann, Public Enemy, RATM, M83, Pavement, Explosions in the Sky, Sufjan, Pumpkins, Tallest Man on Earth, Andrew Bird, Massive attack, Soda Stereo, Yes.

U?

What's coming in the Lemmy 0.20 release?

Any breaking changes which get implemented in the meantime. There are no specific plans.

Cool! I had some personal questions in mind, apart from Lemmy. These won’t be a problem right?

No problem, thats why its called AMA. Of course its possible that your questions wont get answered.

Sure

What is your take on right wing subs like conservative@lemm.ee ?

Should they get the boot? Good for growth? What do you think?

Lemmy is licensed under AGPL which states that everyone can use it, there are no restrictions based on politics. Besides, "right wing" is not the same as "evil", the real world is much more complicated than that. If you ask me, the whole right-left classification is way too simplistic and doesnt make sense anymore (if it ever did).

I'm not a Lemmy dev but I'm interested in this question so I'm commenting so I remember to check up on this one.

I subscribe to that sub because I feel like it's important to engage with people that I don't agree with. Even though the two main contributors to that sub are peculiar in their views, I haven't seen them break any rules of lemm.ee or post outright hate to any group but democrats.

I know sh.it.justworks had their own drama with a the_donald popup community which led to calls for defederation before the community was banned but if people are posting within the rules and properly moderate their own; we ought to let them post their politics even if we don't agree.

I think the instance admins should handle that. Lemmy itself should be a open and agnostic platform. Admins should use defederation and block specific communities.

(My oppinion, I'm not associated with Lemmy development.)

I would hope we aren't going to start kicking people out because of there political views.

Perhaps you are not aware that some instances already do, and that some—for example hexbear & lemmygrad—have done so since their inception.

What's wrong with a "right-wing" community? I'm not right wing but I'm definitely not afraid of them. Anything can be solved with education. Why would you censor based on what side of the political spectrum you're on?

When do we get advanced moderation features? And for example the ability to block all users from a single instance to prevent for example brigading? I mean for the user, so we don't have to rely on defederation so much.

Are you planning to revamp defederation? I mean it's rather complicated the way it works and the triangle that is the user's instance, the other user's instance and the instance the community is located.

What about features like automatically kicking of moderators / revoking their ownership. In the early days of the Reddit exodus, some people reserved lots of communities just so they'd be the owner of the community, but they don't do anything with it. I think admins mostly already dealt with that. But there are ideas floating around to migitate for things like that and other common annoyances. I think good moderation is key (and the tools that go with that and the whole architecture of the platform should favor a good atmosphere.)

When will there be default view agglomeration of posts sent to identically named communities. For example /c/books. The current setup cntralizes power into the hands of whoever gets traction first on the platform. If I go to /c/books on any server, all posts of all federated servers' /c/books should be visible. This way no server owner gets the stranglehold on the community that they host.

Then who would moderate this? And what if lemmygrad.ml/c/books wants to have different discussions from lemmy.world/c/books?

Lemmygrad still can send all the kulaks to the gulags. But only when the discussion happening inside their hard drive. Aka "I take my ball and go home"

They do not get to silence the rest of the fediverse/c/books

As I understand your suggestion this would mean one super community might get moderated from 5 different instances and 5 rule sets. It is definitely the right direction but not that easy to design..

Posts are moderated by the delegates of the owner of the hard drive who stores them.

Rule sets are irrelevent make belief justifucation for censors.

I just had a comment deleted "bevayse if rule 3".

I hope you can see with this farcical example that rules do not matter , never have mattered and will never matter. It just the powerful telling you "because I told you so" with extra steps and while giving them the feeling that they are not a bad person.

I think this is interesting but should not be an automatic feature.

If it is not the default and automatic, then lemmy is a pointless reddit clone.

You have to filter out what you don't want because it is not possible to undelete what has already been deleted.

Users will just circulate ready made blacklists of spammer and thoughtcriminal communities to automatically remove them all from their feed.

The alternative is that only the biggest instance and the biggest community will matter and writing everywhere else is just a exercise in pointlessness

The current setup cntralizes power into the hands of whoever gets traction first on the platform.

There are other factors at hand, such as the moderation and the instance politics

Which is another centralization incentive.

Don't want to be ostracized because your user is registered on the wrong politic instance ? Join biggest instance instead.

Going to the biggest local community of the biggest instance is always the way of least resistance.

And that's how you make a worse reddit with extra steps.

Don’t want to be ostracized because your user is registered on the wrong politic instance ? Join biggest instance instead.

There are plenty of politically neutral instance. Most of them are, actually, the only ones that come to mind as politically oriented are hexbear, lemmygrad and to an extend, lemmy.ml.

That leaves lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, all the feddit.country, discuss.tchncs.de, sopuli.xyz, reddthat.com, lemmy.zip as neutral alternatives

Another option here is FEP-d36d which is a standard for group-to-group following. This looks to me like a slightly more organic and opt-in approach.

Any opt-in approach will be irrelevant. Most user never change the defaults.

Example are "multireddit" feature. Statistically speaking, nobody used them and they never mattered.

Imagine a combination of /r/books /r/books2 and /r/books3

Owner of /r/books goes mad with power (as tgey all do) abd sells out the community.

So you post in /r/books2 because you use the multireddit, and if everyone else did, the defective owner would be transparently bypassed.

But what actually happens ?

To 99% if users in /r/books, you have simply ceased to exist. New users still to biggest /r/books and never know of the alternatives.

Multireddits are socially irrelevant.

The default MUST whole fediverse aggloneration which the users filters out what they don't like out of

By manual removal of individual communities

By including or subscribing to circulating blacklists of communities (think spamfilter lists)

And by the owner of their instance defederating from other servers.

I think one thing you're missing here is that under such a system the defaults would likely become your locally hosted /c/books rather than the largest one. Even still you'd probably see posts from the largest books communities because /c/books@your_instance follows multiple /c/books@big_instance. Community blocking would likely still work as it currently does so any books communities that you were not fond of could still be blocked.

There is still the issue of where do you post and I think the answer looks something like:

  • Post in /c/books@your_instance if you want to talk to your neighbors
  • Post in /c/books@big_instances if you want to talk to everybody

Which is more or less how most people would decide where to post book stuff anyway.

Yes, the majority of content would still come from bigcommunity/c/books, the crucial difference in that system is that posting in otherserver/c/books would get the same probabibility of being viewed by random and non logged users.

I cannot emphasize enough how important that is. It is the only way to break the stranglehold that bigcommunity/c/books will always have over almist every lemmy users.

Without this, this is just reddit all over again. Meet the new boss, same as old boss.

Meet the new boss, same as old boss.

Who's Lemmy's spez?

The main difference of Lemmy compared to Reddit is the ability that communities have to walk away, as I explained in another comment: https://discuss.online/comment/5393546

The problem is communities could just as easily walk away from reddit as they do lemmy. Yet they don't. Lemmy has the same issue with critical mass of users.

The communities should be fediverse wide, not under the grips on one mod team.

I just had an issue that might be interesting in your case. You can read it up on newcommunities@lemmy.world, but long story short, the mod of a community wasn't happy with the way I wanted to bring some meta discussion into the community.

The main difference in this kind of situation between Lemmy and Reddit is that

  • the modlog (https://lemm.ee/modlog/408863) is public, allowing everyone to see what the mod did
  • it's very easy to open another community, explain what went wrong with the other one, and keep things going.

I'd like that. I think some other platforms/projects have features like this. And on Lemmy some instances duplicate everything. For example beehaw.

And on Lemmy some instances duplicate everything. For example beehaw

Are they not allowed to?

Beehaw exists for people who wanted a heavily-moderated space, and they seem to be doing well activity-wise. Do you want to force them with the rest of the instances?

Sure, that's not the point at all. But wouldn't it be great if the knitting community (for example) on beehaw.org, lemmy.ml, lemmy.world and feddit.de would be merged for me into one entity for a better browsing experience? And people wouldn't post the same breaking news 3 times and the cross-posts always showed up 3 times in my timeline? (And sometimes it's the same 30 people anyways that are subscribed to all of them so the cross-posting doesn't add anything?)

I currently don't have a good idea for a UI design for that. But I think a feature like that would add to federated platforms (if done right.) But nobody said you're not allowed or it's bad to open a dozen communities with the same name and topic on different servers. That's perfectly alright. In the real world we also sometimes discuss the same topic with different people at different locations.

But wouldn’t it be great if the knitting community (for example) on beehaw.org, lemmy.ml, lemmy.world and feddit.de would be merged for me into one entity for a better browsing experience?

Why wouldn't they merge on one instance? Seems easier, and can be done today compared to having to ask the developers to implement a complex feature.

Is there a client that does that? Sorry I lost track of the different clients. But I'd like to try. I know Eternity (which I use on my Android phone) and the default webui can't do that. But I haven't tried all the options.

I don't quite get your wording. If you mean similar communities should be merged in all cases, I think I'd disagree. People might want to subscribe to a specific community. And it'd be complex to figure out moderation etc, since the root of the platform is a federated architecture and this somewhat goes against that. I think it'd be more a UI / client feature, tied into a cross-posting mechanism.

Thank you for your work or this reply. However I do not believe a multireddit analog can solve this issue. As it would not be the default, anyone "escaping" with a multireddit would still find themselves invisible to the larger community who does not use it or even know multicommunities exist or remember to use it for that specific community.

Only a system that shows it all, that user then filter out with shared blacklists, can break the tyranny of moderators.

It becomes a much more acceptable tyranny of the majority, which is only optionnally followed by members.

What happened to the fedlink?

No longer appears in the topic

I see it on 19.3, your server is still on 19.2, maybe that's why?

Yep that was a regression which was recently fixed.

Can there be an option to view deleted/removed comments? (this setting a user could configure in settings)

I can understand why mods want to remove comments, but being able to see the text that was removed could be very useful. At the moment, the only way to do this would be having each post uploaded to internet archive, and hope many other lemmy users do the same thing.

I don't think Lemmy is succeeding, it more that Reddit is really failing.

Super excited! Will you be answering all questions, including hard ones?

Are you incentivized by the burning smell of Reddit like I am?