What's something you used to do/see/say but don't anymore because you don't feel it's right?
2y 11mon ago by lemmy.world/u/T0rrent01 in asklemmy
Me personally? I've become much less tolerant of sexist humor. Back in the day, cracking a joke at women's expense was pretty common when I was a teen. As I've matured and become aware to the horrific extent of toxicity and bigotry pervading all tiers of our individualistic society, I've come to see how exclusionarly and objectifying that sort of 'humor' really is, and I regret it deeply.
As a millennial, we grew up with the phrases "that's gay" and "that's retarded" (which meant the same thing) and obviously we had to learn to phase those out.
While I never once meant "that's disabled" or "that's homosexual"... We obviously don't say that stuff anymore.
I witnessed something at work a few weeks ago, that caught me off guard. One of the managers was asking for a favour off one of the lads in work, it's a blue collar job so it's never been PC, "Carl, need a favour, can you do such and such" "Can't sorry Steve" "Go on lad don't be gay" "Steve, I've been taking cock for the last 25 years and you asking me to stop for an extra hours work won't stop me"
Everyone around just creased up laughing.
Now THAT sounds like a friendly work environment lol
That's not funny at all. I would report Steve to HR immediately.
Steve is the HR manager
You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole.
I learned these real quick in the workplace as a young adult, around a coworker with a mentally disabled child, and with a coworker who was gay. The abstraction is what made using such crude language easy. As soon as I knew someone affected by the words, I snapped out of it.
Abstraction, come to think of it, is what permits a lot of bad behavior.
See, this is why we need more diverse representation in the media now. Manchildren always whine about "diversity ruining everything" when it's really a truer reflection of America's evolving demographics.
People don’t complain about diversity usually, they complain about bad writing. It needs to be part of a story and not just a checkbox
If hollywood could figure out how to make well-written diverse stories it'd remove the ability for bigots to obfuscate by lumping themselves in with people who just don't like the writing
On it.
Huh
I still say "That's pretty gay" but only for things like rainbows or LGBT bumper stickers.
Yep we used to use "that's gay" all the time. Never meant other than that is stupid.
Once upon a brighter time, gay was only colloquially used to convey happiness, unrelated to the sexual connotations there is today.
Such a sad time we live in where everything becomes a sensitive topic that can insult and hurt.
To clarify before I get cancelled to oblivion 😂 - you want your diversity, fine with me, good for you, but please there is no need to be a touchy one and reserve a swathe of labels to get insulted by when it can clearly be decided upon context if it was meant to be insulting or not.
I think you're applying very limited and anecdotal definitions that most people don't/didn't strictly adhere to.
Oh god I've got so many.
My latest one is remembering that you can't really fight fire with fire, unless you're being extraordinarily strategic about it. Attacking bigotry for instance, simply makes it stronger, as it feeds off strife and fear themselves. Remembering why Michelle Obama said when they go low, we go high. Not out of any great preference, but out of a lack of viable alternatives in her situation.
You can't actually "fight" it. You can exclude it. You can corral it. You can trick it into running itself off a cliff. But you can't actually destroy it by combating it directly, because it feeds off the combat, just like Trump does. You have to outmaneuver it.
Like the black musician who befriended all those kkk members and got them to retire their hoods and leave the kkk. It wasn’t by been mean and condescending he was very nice to them.
There's a WBC member that was being groomed for politics and he was turned by two Jewish guys while he was in university. They killed him with kindness. He wrote a book about it and there's a great NPR interview with him and he talks about it.
... now that I've gotta google... lol
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I routinely attack bigots on social media. I enjoy writing and their shitty views are basically writing prompts for me.
At no point have I ever expected to change the bigots mind. They're not going to read a social media comment and wake up a new person -- they'd lose their bigot friends and bigot family.
But I have changed the minds of spectators, and thats important. Which is why assholes should never be left unchallenged when they're being assholes, especially on the safety of the internet.
I don't think there's that many spectators wandering around in true states of neutrality wondering whether their various conspiracies are true. Most people lean already, they've been already influenced. Thus, if not approached very strategically, you're actually recruiting for both sides.
Remember, they've attacked rationality and logic themselves. The people who still put faith in rationality and logic, and thus can be convinced with it, were not particularly vulnerable in the first place.
"Conventional wisdom" is a thing. There are people who have adopted propaganda and misinformation as opinions simply because it never crossed their mind to challenge it.
Pride started as a riot. Women's Lib started as a riot. Peaceful demonstrations achieve nothing.
I was totally headed down the alt right pipeline. Throughout highschool I was depressed and lonely. I lost my faith which sent me to the online atheist community which ran out of content, so they started attacking feminists/sjws. I also just distrusted women because I got molested as a child by one and no one took it seriously. This had primed me to just eat up all the content from the MRA/antifeminist crowd. The youtube algorithm, which at the time was absolutely unhinged, pushed me to racist content which I just parroted because I didn't know any better. I didn't understand why things were the way things were, but I was taught who to blame.
What saved me was getting friends. These friends shattered my preconceptions, which sent me to the library, which got me talking to more people, which got me reading more. By the time I finished high school I just became utterly incompatible with the person I used to be. I couldn't take back the things I said to people, but I could join their protests and speak up for them when I heard some heinous shit being said.
I no longer describe anything as 'lame' or 'retarded' or 'spaz' or their variants. It makes me sad ableism is so ingrained in even the most inclusive spaces even though the same argument has removed the use of 'gay' for the same reasons.
I also avoid dark or dry humour unless I'm confident the people I am talking to know it's absurdist and not a serious opinion. I don't always succeed at this.
I honestly don't think it's ableism. Languages evolve and retarded doesn't mean a mental condition it literally means "dumb". Most people don't even know "lame" is related to a movement conditions and if you did a statistical analysis 99% of use cases are not related to the "original meaning". People are just ignorant of how language works, especially since English is a global language.
Yeah, people made the same arguments about 'gay' and 'fag'.
Retarded was the word of choice medically in the 60's - 80's for people with developmental disabilities. It derives from the Latin word Tardus which means slow or late.
Languages evolve, but the euphemistic treadmill is ongoing. The word 'cretin' derived from the word 'Christian', the person who coined it intended it to mean that people with cognitive impairments were still people worthy of respect. And now it's just a straight up insult. Similar with 'idiot' and 'moron'.
And these days you can look at wojaks which use physical differences like drooling or missing half a head or being physically unattractive in unconventional ways to indicate ignorance or stupidity.
Every word that people use to try to describe people with disabilities respectfully becomes a slur. That's because of ableism. It's just not talked about much.
More on this topic for anyone interested in the euphemism treadmill: https://humanparts.medium.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-mentally-retarded-e3b9eea23018
Would you then advocate that no one should ever use the words "idiot", "moron", or "cretin" ever again? What about "dumb", or "stupid"?
(edit) - People are fun. They actually believe that no human should ever want to throw insults at another human ever again. Fascinating.
I think they have more historical distance from their original intent, but I still try not to use them. I favour more targetted and creative insults, or at least more accurate descriptions of the problem.
What others do is not up to me. But I do encourage thinking about the context of the words we use and how our world view is shaped by the development of language. There are a lot of cultural eccentricities buried in etymology, and many of them are no complimentary.
I try not to use any of those words, but it is hard as they are so prevalent in society, even in my progressive and inclusive circle.
I decided a while ago to substitute all those with the word "Turnip" - as in the vegetable. I doubt anyone could be genuinely offended by that and it sounds good when said - Don't be a Turnip! try it out, its a fun word to use and people seem to be tickled by it.
I mean it really comes down to context and just not being a dick to those around you, seems like a pretty easy ask to just be decent to people as best as you can idk
Im really trying hard to stop calling shit retarded. im 40 dammit its just what we always said :(
I have managed to stop calling things gay. managed that one a long time ago so yeah ill give myself that. But retard slips out so much still.
Same, even now I've been making an effort not to for years, it still sometimes pops up in my internal monologue. Over-writing preprogrammed habits is hard, I am right there with you.
Is lame ableist? I knew about the other 2, and I think anyone else growing up in the 2000s used them at some point (myself included, don't anymore though), but I've never heard of lame as being a slur.
Lame is kind of an old word for someone or something with a bad leg or legs.
Like how a horse is lame if its leg is broken.
Huh TIL. Tbh lame seems more disconnected than the other two. Looking at the etymology on Google it seems it was last used in that way commonly in the late 1800s, so maybe that is why.
We still use it in English for the original purpose. If I told a native UK/AU/NZ English speaker the horse was shot after a race because it was lame, people wouldn't assume it was because the horse was uncool.
I think lame might get more of a pass because it's very rarely used to describe people any more, so there is a bigger disconnect.
You're right that I have more frequently been described as crippled rather than lame, but I have still experienced some 'fun' double entendre with lame.
That sucks, I'm sorry. Not sure why I'm surprised that people would use the more archaic definition just for cruelty's sake
The interesting part is that it was never intended with malice, it was just a lighthearted bit of a joke. I guess if I had my disability as a kid, I think that would be different. And you laugh along the first few times with them because you know they don't mean harm, but eventually it gets very old and it sinks in that this is how people perceive you - even if unintentionally. It becomes your defining feature and just a constant reminder of how you can't do certain things you want to, and it's worse if your condition is also physically painful it becomes a reminder that you're in pain, even if you've managed to forget for a few happy seconds. It makes it just that little bit more difficult to not think about, when the same word that has been used to describe you just pops up casually in its slang form.
But, for people who have the additional baggage of having how people perceive you as being disabled, when the word has a dual meaning with 'unintelligent' like 'retarded' or 'spaz', its an even more painful sort of othering. It's not one I've experienced personally, but this is why I've tried to stop using words which have a medical + bad thing association... which, as it turned out, was most of the words historically used to describe people with disabilities. It runs deep. Even if I aim the words correctly and precisely, I don't want to make other people feel sad as collateral damage.
I think it actually says something about 'lame' that we mostly only use it to refer to animals now. When you hear it used about yourself or others in the original form, it even has a flavour of dehumanisation that it didn't entirely have before.
Language is a weird thing like that.
Technically yes but I'm disabled and it's literally never seemed ableist to me. I've never heard anyone use it as anything other than "that's a bummer" or "you're ruining the vibe"
I think that specific word has been reformed
You can pry “lame” and “spaz” outta my cold, dead tongue!
You can do as you wish, but I prefer not to join. I don't think it's fair to people with spasticity symptoms, an often very painful condition, to be associated with someone who is just a greedy selfish arrogant waste of skin. They suffer enough without being insulted too.
Yep, an ADHD diagnosis made me realize how ableist society is, stuff that looks easy for some is insurmountable for others.
The dry absurdist humour being taken seriously is real. Too many times lately I've been getting strange looks to what I thought were obviously absurd jokes/opinions. I've probably been spending too much time online
I think it's partly a symptom of our world being super-connected. There are some loud people out there with some really poorly founded ideas, and opinions which most people would consider absurd. Previously that might be only one or two people in a community, but the internet has changed that for good.
I also try not to do it anymore to help people with disabilities which prevent them from readily picking up on sarcasm like autism. I don't need to accidentally influence someone who has taken me at face value. It's so hard not to revert back to old habits though.
Crap, it never occurred to me that "lame" was even related to disability. I mean, obviously it is - though in my mind that aspect of the word was almost exclusively related to animals. Is lame rude now too?
Seems pretty simple to replace spaz with spez now...
Gay is one of the most useful words. There isn't and never was a replacement for that word. It just fits a certain description of a certain something that no other word quite fits.
Gay used to mean happy, then it meant homosexual, then it meant some annoying, uncomfortable, awkward thing. We have words for the first two definitions but we don't have an alternative to the third. It just made sense in some many different contexts nothing could replace it.
Gay (the three letter word) for the third definition was a thing of beauty and I wish it would come back. Let's just go back to calls gays homosexuals and we can use gay for a better untapped market.
Cringe seem to have become popular to describe all kinds of annoying, uncomfortable, or awkward things lately. Maybe use that instead since the other two uses of gay were pretty well established when people started using it as the third definition.
Cringe?
In the 90s, anything bad was "retarded" or "gay". Those don't really fly anymore.
Gay people. When I was much much younger I remember telling a friend that while I didn't have a problem with people doing their own thing, I still didn't like gay people. My friend said I hope when you have kids they're gay. Guess what happened and how I feel about it now. I was such a dumb ass. When my kid came out to me I wept for joy at their bravery. I don't take hard stances on my opinions now and try to remember that my perspective isn't ultimate or necessarily right. There's always a chance that I'm wrong.
Did you tell them your name? Because I think that might have led them to make some assumptions.
It took one of those meat market experiences to make me self-reflect about how I treated women as a straight man.
Thankfully I was relatively young when it happened, but I'll always regret how I treated women before then.
It's crazy to me now that there wasn't a single (open) trans or gay person in my high school in the 90s. I sometimes wonder who actually was, but wasn't able to be themselves.
My high school class was in mid-'00s, and there was one girl who very much had that butch/tomboy vibe going on. I drifted away from the class, so only heard rumours after graduation, but I think she never actually came out as anything. On the other hand three others of us (two of whom, including myself, I never would have guessed back in high school) eventually came out as various shades of queer :D
I was in high school in the late 70s and early 80s. Nobody was out. But people kind of knew. One time I was on a train into the city (San Francisco), and I saw two students along with one of our teachers headed there. I thought that was kind of cool, but seemed also a bit dangerous and ill-advised at the time. I am fairly certain that our very popular senior class president was gay. Very sadly, he took his own life.
You really tempted fate, there!
I was raised in a fundamental christian extremest environment and stuck with it for 30 years. I'm now a card carrying atheist.
I was raised Baptist, with all the shitty bells and whistles. I'm now an agnostic theist. Part of me is still fond of Christianity, but definitely not the more eyebrow-raising stuff nor the church.
I am proud of my new theistic beliefs now, as they remain rational and embrace how little we really can know. And now I validate atheism as rational and normal too. At least in principle— some atheists can be as cultish and angry as some Christians or some vegans or any other community that focuses on world-scale beliefs and issues. But I digress.
Congrats on getting away from extremists and forming your own beliefs, fam.
If you're carrying a card you're still in a cult.
TIL my local library is a cult
The cult of the shhhs
Church of Satan
I always call those people anti-theists, as opposed to atheists. The ones who almost have their lack of religion as a religion in itself and criticise (and let's be honest, demean) anyone with a faith.
By all means, criticise the church, and the structures, which harm people. Criticise the willfully misinterpreted doctrine. The religions themselves, people's beliefs? Leave them alone.
Criticise the willfully misinterpreted doctrine
Do you think there is something inherently good or harmless in religion and that harmful practice is always the result of misinterpretation?
Most of the time yes. A really simple example is the Bible line "thou shall not lie with men as women", the original text says boys not men. The Jewish peoples saw the Greeks fucking kids and said "hey, uh no, let's make that a law, that you shouldn't do that". Boy became men, and that's been used to claim the Bible forbids homosexuality.
I don't think there's anything ultimately wrong with religion as such. People always try to find meaning and purpose in life. If religion gives them a way of doing that, then excellent; if religion plays no part, then also excellent. The goal is to be a good person, regardless of why you do it. Is a Christian who follows the tenent "love thy neighbour" worse than someone who loves their neighbour? A Jew who helps Muslims despite the tensions between their faiths, and they help because YHWH says to? Are they worse than an atheist who chooses to not help? Religion isn't the problem. People are, people are always the problem.
FYI, people's beliefs can be wrong. If someone's religion says the Earth is 6000 years old, then that religion is harmful and we should not tolerate that belief.
Obviously there is nuance here. It's not ok to be prejudiced against religious people, but we shouldn't let people get away with nonsense by calling it religion.
Oh absolutely, criticise the beliefs that don't make sense, and are tolerated. But pretty much everyone of most major faiths believe in science. There's the fundamentalists, who are extremely loud in their ignorance, but the majority of people aren't that.
And the 99% of people who don't loudly practice extreme beliefs which have been coopted for nefarious purposes?
In 2016, nearly 80% of Ireland identified as Catholic, and that was a low point for the country. Yet in 2015, we voted for same sex marriage; in 2018, we voted to legalise abortion; in 1995, we voted to legalise divorce; in 2018, we voted to stop treating blasphemy as an offence; in 1973, we voted to recognise other religions and stop putting Catholicism on a pedestal.
There's plenty to criticise mass religion, and especially institutions for, but don't conflate the powerful, and the extremists, who choose bigotry and hate over love and compassion, with the everyday person who just wants something to provide them with peace.
Used to use the word 'retarded' to describe people doing dumb things. Then I realized that not only was it hurtful to people with Down Syndrome - it was inaccurate ... as a person with Down Syndrome would not do the things I was attributing to the phrase.
I take my coffee black, like my men. A line from the movie Airplane. My wife made me quit saying it, that servers today don't know the movie, and so it's just creepy instead of funny now. :(
Surely they know it's a joke
Don't call me Shirley
Thanks, you two... I needed that. :)
I will say 'I like my coffee like I like my women, black and strong'. My wife is a tiny white girl so I tend to get funny looks when I say it.
My go-to is that I take my coffee like my soul, dark and bitter.
I would probably not say it if it was true though 😊
Growing up in the 90s, we would always say things were 'gay' even though we had nothing against homosexuals. It was just the thing to say. Yeah, definitely should not have been saying that.
I used to be a full on incel, it's an easy hole to fall into if you hate yourself. I had to take a good look at myself and realize that I was the problem, and now I'm a far happier person
I don't have any regrets about making dead baby jokes when I was much younger, but definitely won't be making them now with an 8 month old daughter.
My 17yo thought I was bullshitting him when we were talking about these jokes. He googled it and was speechless. I was kinda young when they were popular but remember vividly my uncle's telling them often.
Wow, I always thought this was just like a middle school humour thing. Didn't realize it was short lived (that's probably a good thing though lol)
They're very dark, but often quite surreal at the same time.
when's the cutover from baby to toddler?
I've done ny best to shake out ableist, racist, and other harmful speech.
We may be able to speak freely but we are all held accountable for the words we say
Yeah, I hit my teens at the turn of the millennium. Saying "gay," and all it's synonyms, was just an everyday thing. I watched the movie Waiting the other day and was surprised at how they dropped the word faggot almost immediately and repeatedly, until I remembered that's how people talked 20 years ago. It definitely made me think about how if you dial the clock back 60, 70 years, the N word was probably just as commonplace, and society has done a great job of getting rid of that. So I suppose I have hope that we can continue to wipe out hateful speech, we just need a minute.
I feel this is one of the big concerns around cancel culture. I said all types of stuff growing up as a millennial that was fine then, but probably wildly offensive in the future and not great now.
I practice meditation quite seriously, but I stopped telling people I'm spiritual. I really am not interested in ghost stories, gods and angels at all.
I used to use “gay “ or “ retarded “ as negative adjectives, I no longer do because using someone’s being in a negative light is really mean, and I try not to be mean.
I used to play extreme music some 15 years ago and by God 80% of our humour was variations of calling each other f*gs. It's quite sad cause we didn't have an ounce of préjudice in us we were just wankers with dead end jobs and shit guitars. We met up with the boys a couple months ago and reminisced there was a lot of cringing...
Racism.
While I was never into it myself thankfully, I let it pass a lot in my family. Being in university changed that though, it just feels too uncomfortable to have my family say racist shit in front of me while I have so many people of color as friends. I still struggle to call out their transphobia though but that is due to my own identity issues.
In my early life I was raised in Kansas fundie hell. I graduated to 4chan. To call me racist would have been an understatement; "proud white supremacist", more like. (LOL I used the term "race nationalist" then)
Perhaps my proudest personal achievement has been unraveling that disgusting tapestry of who I was.
Good on ya.
Something rather cringe and obnoxious in hindsight was the over use of the word "ocd" It was quite common in media and in my circles for somebody to say "I'm so ocd" when referring to some perfectly normal thing they do like tidying bookcases and organising things.
It's pretty cringy now and I'd never say it now. I feel bad for saying it... but hey personal growth I guess. I was in school/college at the time too so it was a long time ago. There were a lot of things that were common at school that I used to say that are definitely not pc nowadays and I accept that. I don't pretend to be a perfect and morally righteous invidual. I have flaws as much as the next person
People still throw OCD around like they're the world's quirkiest person "oh that's just my OCD lol"
Holy shit, thank you for bringing this one up. I'm not OCD, but I care a lot about mental health and neurodiversity (two things I deal with a lot). I sometimes rant about the misuse of "OCD" at random. And people still misuse it a lot.
Grew up in the 80s and 90s. As progressive and openminded as I thought I was then...holy shit there are a lot of words and phrases I won't touch any more because they sound archaic, racist, mysoginistic, or hateful today. Back then they were perfectly acceptable everyday things no one would bat an eye at. It does make me happy that at least in this small arena we seem to have made progress as a society.
(Should add that this is from a US perspective)
I was rewatching some Buffy the vampire Slayer and Buffy asks herself if she's "mentally challenged" in the second episode.
It's kind of crazy to me how I didn't bat an eye at that just 10 years ago when I was watching the show in high school.
Society and language evolve at a truly spectacular rate
Wtf no one complained about that.
Nah you're full of shit lol maybe you saw one loser complain on the Buffy forum or something, but I can assure you as a conservative myself no one gave a fuck about that lmao
If we could just stop regressives from taking us back every time we think we've moved forward.
I worked with someone who takes care of their older brother.
I don’t use the word “ret*rd” as a dig at someone anymore.
I honestly never used it as anything but playful banter but that word invokes a lot more meaning than I ever intended.
I know that now.
I worked for years with developmentally disabled adults. Saying that word even once was automatic termination.
The word does have medical/mechanical relevance but is so offensive nowadays that it's worth not using it at all.
Nothing. Everything is still funny in the right or wrong context.
smoking. growing up in the 80s, everyone was smoking - in bars, restaurants, airplanes, even hospitals.
everyone I knew, their parents smoked tobacco or chewed tobacco. I started smoking myself, around 16 or so, as did all of my friends & even people I didn't associate with. it was just part of the culture - and yes, I was aware at the time that it was a dangerous activity, but kids are stupid.
and then around 15 years ago or so everyone stopped or switched to vaping. now I really only see homeless people smoking. it's quite the culture shift.
For a brief period in elementary school I used to think that's it's okay to litter - and not by example of my parents (they're fine) but rather because everyone else was doing it.
I'm not proud that I was doing it, but I'm glad that I quickly grew out of it - so much that it now makes my blood boil seeing someone on the street littering (almost to the point of me wanting to slap them across the face).
I never realized how frequently I called things “lame” until I said it in front of a coworker paralyzed from a motorcycle accident. Hopefully he understood, but it just took that one glance telling me he heard it for me to stop. To try to stop.
Misogyny in books. I was reading a Morse book. He described the woman of a couple from dyed hair to hammer toes but had no physical description of her husband whatsoever.
I played Modern Warfare 2 at 16. That's all I need to say. Not proud of my early internet years
I know it's controversial, but moving away from "guys" when I address a group and more or less defaulting to "they" when referring to people I don't know.
They was practical, because I deal with so many students exclusively via email, and the majority of them have foreign names where I'd never be able to place a gender anyways if they didn't state pronouns.
Switching away from guys was natural, but I'm in a very male dominated field and I'd heard from women students in my undergrad that they did feel just a bit excluded in a class setting (not as much social settings) when the professor addresses a room of 120 men and 5 women with "Guys", so it just more or less fell to the side in favour of folks/everyone.
Putting people down and using ableism as the punchline in a joke/retort/comment
I'm not as naive. There usually is no simple solution to complex problems and when someone suggest one it's almost always wrong by definition. It's a messy world and sometimes the right thing to do sounds counter-intuitive
"usually", "almost always" It seems like there is also generally no simple solution to the complex problem of finding solutions!
No point using the word "always" because even one counter-example then nullifies the whole argument
The Problem of Induction!
I'm too autistic to not read it literally
"almost always" is a bit different
This is a good one. Any political opinion I see starting with "if we just..." or "why don't they just..." I pretty much immediately disregard. If it were that simple, the problem would have already been solved.
I still think we should try our best!
Sure but let's try to find solutions that actually work instead of just doing something because it feels good
Good on you.
Quite a few. I grew up in a conservative, racist family. It took me a long time to unwind the problematic casual phrases I grew up with. I'm not proud of it, and I occasionally cringe looking backwards. I realize now the tremendous weight and damage those phrases could do. Now I just try to be better day by day, and to make sure I don't perpetuate those damaging habits in my own children.
I used to slip in to a bit where I was sarcastically a character that took on beliefs basically the exact opposite of my own. I would make sexist or lightly racist (stereotype) jokes that I didn't actually believe but thought were funny. The jokes were ofter at the expense of myself or people like me but involved bringing up other races, sexes, and ethnicities.
I made an effort to stop doing this for a couple reasons. The first being that idk if I'm really good or really bad at sarcasm but a lot of people just wouldn't get my joke and I was afraid people actually believed that was who I was.
Secondly, I had a kid. I realized that she parrots everything I say and do, and she wouldn't understand the layers of the joke and could potentially become what I was making fun of.
I listen to a lot of comedians in podcast and I envy their ability to slip in and out of bits with other comedians knowing they all get it, but for now I make an effort to end that bit.
I think doing those things when it's clear, is fine. As a queer person, when I catch my friends (usually inadvertently) say something queerphobic, I'll lean it and switch it to be critical of the cishet equivalent.
I think when it's clear, and when it's being used for a good reason, then there's no issue. You make a very good point about your child though. They don't usually get the nuances that an adult should.
I remember as a teen in the 90s in high school, doing a fake gay voice was considered funny and nobody thought twice about it. Even if the person wasn't actually targeting anyone LGBTQ+ specifically, just doing the voice seemed to insinuate the somebody was less than masculine. Like, Oh, the water isn't cold enough for you, let me repeat that request back in a gay voice to make fun of you.
I'm pretty sure if I even tried doing a fake gay voice at work now I would probably be shit-canned pretty quickly, which in a way goes to show how far society has come in not tolerating what would've just been crude humor in earlier times. I know the LGBTQ+ community has worked for decades to get to where they're at today, but it still feels kind of crazy how quickly society changed.
"Rule of thumb" I quit using this one after learning that it referred to a rule where you could legally beat your wife with a switch no wider than your thumb.
"Getting gyped" Learned this one is about associating gypsies with getting screwed over, so people started saying they got gyped because something bad happened.
Stuff I thought was completely innocuous but turns out has really bad connotations, so I dropped them.
I respect your intuition to drop problematic phrases but you may have been lead astray on "rule of thumb" by a very common rumour (Wikipedia calls it 'modern folk etymology') that that is where it originated.
In fact no law ever existed and it was more used in trades as thumbs were an easy mode of measurement available to anyone (similar to the use of feet to measure!)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thumb
The Wikipedia article even explains the "switch" rumour and provides some backstory and explanation to it.
So don't feel weird using Rule of Thumb; it has more to do with carpentry than anything else.
never heard of that, really neat
Getting gyped” Learned this one is about associating gypsies with getting screwed over, so people started saying they got gyped because something bad happened.
This one is hard for me because my first wife's biological dad was from a family of ... and I can't even say it. My wife used to say "gypsy," and her family all said gypsies, but I can't say "Romani" either because they weren't technically Romani. The family came from Europe via South America and are a large isolated family up and down the US eastern coast. Most of the rulers of this family clan are wanted by the FBI, and they are involved in everything from penny bunko scams to psychic parlors to carnivals and crooked contracting companies. My late wife's family have been on a lot of TV shows since the 1970s, including 60 minutes and several specials on cable TV channels like Discovery. Everyone called them gypsies.
My wife died before the term "gypsy" started to be recognized as a slur, and I am curious how she would have handled it, because people used to ask her, "Oh Romani?" "No." "Irish Traveler?" "No, they are the Ristick/Ely clan." "... what?" But let me tell you, that family was very weird. Some of them still lived in vardas but most were circulating through private residences in common suburban neighborhoods. They were real hard to catch and pin down because almost all the top family members had multiple aliases, moved around a lot, and even my wife's dad had several marriages, and claimed the kids on his taxes for decades, even if they were in their 30s (which is a problem my wife had to deal with, like having to tell the IRS, "No, I am 33 and married, I not 8 living with my dad in eastern Ohio."). They have a very specific philosophy about their family as "chosen people" who were, as one story goes, forgiven by God because they stole one of the nails from the cross used to crucify Jesus. They don't even consider what they do fraud or stealing any more than you or I would think a monkey owns a camera. I was married to her for 25 years, and heard all sorts of stories about that family, and why my mother-in-law ended up leaving.
I did a Google search on the Ristick family and saw a comment you made on Ars Technica Forums, back when you were Punk Walrus and your wife was alive. (At least given the similarity to username and background, I think it's you.) My condolences on your wife. Did her death bring her father's side of the family back into the picture at all? And did she end up writing the book everyone wants to read about the situation? They sound like a fascinating, but exhausting family. I'd think you'd need a robust journalism team to conduct all those interviews.
It is me.
Nope. Her death brought a LOT of people to the funeral, but mostly people she influenced through the anime and science fiction conventions she helped run. I won't rule out her family showing up, but there were 250-300 people in attendance, and obviously I was distracted. She never wrote a book, but she did leave a some... let's say artefacts... of her family. A tarot deck, a book about family life in the early 1900s, and stuff like that. I don't know what to do with them, because I know some of them were stolen, and someone "outside the family" are not supposed to have them. She was never accepted as a "half breed," and part of why her mother left was because of the abuse. I remember hearing about when someone in the family dies, people just "show up" without being notified. It may be apocryphal, legendary without much fact, I dunno. But it was one of those "psychic things" that her family supposedly possessed.
I do know that she found out that her father died (really died this time, not faked his death) around 2002-2003. She knew that her family wouldn't want to speak to her, and if they did, they would probably do so for criminal intent. I remember that she encountered some of her extended family in public (one of the scams was an elderly woman with a small toddler, and an index card with "I am poor, and have no money to my grandchild") and she would say "don't interact with her. Look over there, there, and in that car: that's family keeping an eye on her, and to warn her if things start to go down. Even if you say you know she's a gypsy, yeah, don't do that. They will find you, and hurt you." Some of the men would see a dent in your car and say they could repair it for $200 or something. Hot women would approach you and stroke your hand while they had "visions." She knew all the tricks. She was great at carnivals, too, like how things were rigged.
Never knew that about "rule of thumb". Personally, I think some expressions like that are so far removed from their original meaning that they really are innocuous for all practical purposes, but I see your point.
(Hard agree on "gyped" though LOL)
The rule of thumb thing is a myth. It's not true.
Man what the fuck, "rule of thumb" sounded like the most innocuous and random shit, why must you do this to me.
Take a look at the Wikipedia page. It really is innocuous, it actually originated as a form of measurement like feet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thumb
The top comment is using false etymology that was propagated in the 1970s.
The rule of thumb thing has zero evidence that it is true, and much evidence it is a baseless myth.
For fucks sake this shit drives me crazy, you people stop using common words or terms for reasons that aren't even true!
I hope you learn from this that you shouldn't just blindly believe whatever stupid shit you hear so you can virtue signal.
I stopped ironically wearing my Putin t-shirt.
Depends on the situation. In the corporate world I watch everything I say. When alone or with friends, not very much.
Don't beat yourself up too much for the behaviours and humor of your past. Times change, people grow. Sometimes a behaviour sticks, and thats ok too. We are still human.
Sometimes a behavior sticks and that's ok too?
Not at all.
Certainly is. Depends entirely on the behavior. Walking around saying racist shit? Not ok, ever.
Using some phrases that are not well received anymore while you are with your friends? Fine if everyone involved is fine with it.
For the last point it depends in other factors.
If you want to say "homophobic" jokes with your close friends in closed walls, that's ok for me, but how are you acting outside those walls? If you say homophobic jokes in closed walls, but then outside you dont accept homosexual men, then there is a problem there too.
Absolutely. Me and my friends have a pretty offensive kind of humor, but definitely only around ourselves. I would absolutely tell em off if I knew any of them meant it seriously though.
I automatically reject any arguments based on the "human nature". We know jack shit about our nature.
I reject any argument based on something supposedly being natural. Who draws the line? And nature is a bitch anyway.
I agree! Too much justified with "human nature" when in reality it's a local cultural discourse and practice. However, I do think we can say some things about humans. Check out The Ethical Primate by Mary Midgley
Definitely adding it to my Todo list, thanks for the suggestion!!
I will argue that it is human nature to lie. Dismissing that would be folly.
Anybody that simply dismiss's an argument with valid standing is not worth talking to.
Anybody that simply asserts their statement to be true, is not worth talking to.
Historically, there have been countless statements about the human nature proved wrong. Some of them were even used to support the most harmful idealogies like sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia etc.
It's never about correctness, science knows better than simply referring to human nature.
So you are dismissing it is human nature to lie?
And ideally, we have enough self-control enough to rise above the bad aspects of human nature
Accepting the ability of self-indentification is one of the few exceptions I would be willing to make.
I cannot support it logically, but I truly want to believe in it.
Jokes built on racist stereotypes. Used to be just another part of my family's collection of jokes, but now I don't see the humor in those
I've been trying to degender my language. I grew up saying "thank you (or excuse me, yes/no, etc) sir/ma'am" and then being in customer facing positions for years just absolutely cemented that in my mind to the point where it is an absolute knee jerk reaction to make assumptions about the gender of others. It's an awful habit and makes me cringe every time I do it. I try to either just avoid the gender identifier ("thank you.") which to my mind sounds impolite, or use gender neutral terms like "friend" which REALLY sound impolite. It's tough but I'm working on it! The real trouble is getting my brain to stop gendering others and as a quite elderly millenial who actually identifies as Agender it is an annoying and difficult task. I'm envious of younger folks who won't grow up with these kinds of ideas as a default.
Go with "Thank you, customer"
Really push the dystopia with dead eyes and big smile as you do it.
Very fortunately, I now work from home in a job with basically zero interaction with anyone at all (it's great) so this mostly applies to casual social interactions at say, a grocery store. I have to say though, using your suggestion in this context is actually hilarious and would be super gratifying.
Not the guy you replied to but I'm fully WFH and I wouldn't trade it for anything. The amount of social anxiety I used to have working in an office was almost unbearable. I'm not sequestered from society or anything like that, I have a pretty active social life outside of work, but being forced to interact with co-workers in an office when I can do the same job from home just sucks
I spend 9-12 hours a day working on a computer listening to audio on headphones. I am so glad my workplace decided to go fully and permanently remote. I can't imagine a situation where me being in an office would improve my work performance in any way.
However, my partner hates working from home and desperately missed having an office to go to during the pandemic. His company closed their office as well, so now he just meets up with his boss a few times a week to work at a cafe or something. I wouldn't mind that but I have a ton of peripherals I need to use in addition to my computer and the couple times I've tried it has been more irritating than anything else to lug everything around and spend 15 minutes setting everything up.
I mean, I don't think people being happy in self directed work from a comfortable environment free from the scrutiny and drama of coworkers really says anything at all about "what has the world come to." If I want to socialize, I do that outside of my work hours, and my work is far more productive and enjoyable without the constant interference and distraction of either coworkers or the general public. My experience with my past workplaces are my own, and I am far happier and have a much better quality of life without forcible socialization with people I would under no other circumstances outside of prison or a mass transport breakdown spend most of my waking hours around.
I am genuinely quite happy with my life. I have friends, family, a longterm partner, pets, a career that I love (that I believe does a genuine service to my fellow humans), money in the bank, and rewarding hobbies. I highly value my free time and like to use it how I see fit, instead of trying to wedge myself into social situations I don't find enjoyable or fulfilling. If that makes me a hermit, I am totally fine with that.
(Also just saying you may find a higher than average number of people who are introverted or value alone time posting on a relatively niche social media site with barriers to entry that require at least some level of computer savvy).
In my last job (which was on a team of all cis women), people shared their pronouns...both singular AND plural (i.e., how they wanted to be referred to in a group). Which is pretty bizarre. Like, what if one person's plural pronoun is "folks" and another's is "friends"...then which term are you supposed to use?
And I came to hate saying "friends" because we weren't friends. It was a soul-sucking corporate gig, and I wasn't part of their mom squad...I never saw them outside of work, and I was always the last to learn about team changes, so let's be real: we aren't friends, we're coworkers. It got creepy being expected to smile and address everyone as "friends"!
FWIW, I have nothing against folks or guys or y'all ;)
This is what bugs me about chosen pronouns, it's like a right someone has to tell other people how to use language, that can get complicated and needs memorization. People should have leeway on the words they use, even if they shouldn't be making unwanted assertions about other peoples gender. Would be better to just have a set of genderless pronouns that are always polite/safe to use.
I resonate deeply with this. I can't be bothered to memorise all these pronouns. I'd of course do it for people I am close to, though.
I maintain that "they/them" is that always-safe genderless pronoun type.
I do use singular they a lot for lack of alternatives, but it can get pretty awkward when both an individual and a group of people are part of the context of your statement. Do you accept the ambiguity and that people may misinterpret you? Spend a lot of time structuring your words to fight against that ambiguity? Overuse the word 'person' instead of using pronouns? I think it would be a strict improvement to the language if we just made 'xe' or something a real word.
Agreed.
or just refer to people as ma'am/sir, and if they get offended it's their problem
In an office?? I feel like that would be weird or come across as sarcastic. I call my boss by his first name. Heck, we don't even call CEOs sir/ma'am anymore.
it's a term of respect - but business cultures differ between corporations
It's not so much about offending someone (and yes, people absolutely do sometimes get aggressively upset about it) and more about attempting to change my own mental habits. I believe like race, sexual orientation, and politics, gender is a personal topic that doesn't really need to enter into a casual, never to be repeated interaction between two people. You don't say "excuse me, old person," based on your perceptions of another's appearance. Why is gender any different? It certainly isn't an objective concept or one that can be readily or factually assumed. It's outmoded and unnecessary.
Also, as I commented earlier, if I am using what I mean to be a term of respect to make someone else feel confident and comfortable, and through my language I risk doing the opposite, why would I want to do that if it's something I can personally change?
I'm not British but I just say "cheers mate" to everyone. Works for me.
Interesting that this sir/ma'am thing is very location-dependent. I've been living in Scotland more more than a decade now and I probably heard someone address me as "sir" a grand total of twice. I remember because it always felt so jarring, like why was this random shop assistant speaking to me so subserviently O.o
But I heard in some places (USA?) it's very commonplace.
“Thank you friend” is impolite? Maybe it’s informal, but I think that’s a great solution to the problem. I can’t imagine anyone having a problem with that except maybe an aggro asshole.
Maybe I've just spent too long arguing with aholes on the internet but to me calling someone "friend" comes across as very sarcastic and condescending
Edit, it's like calling someone you don't know "buddy" or "pal"
I'm not your friend, pal!
Listen here, buddy!
I could see it online, yeah. If you use a friendly tone in person it wouldn’t be a problem.
Fair enough! I do use it pretty frequently. I would really like it if someone said that to me, so maybe it isn't as impolite as I perceive it. Thanks.
I mean, isn't that exactly what you just used? They/them are genderless pronouns that can be used for both plural and singular subjects. If you don't know someone's gender, it's already what people default to.
Like, "They're sending someone over at 3, but I don't know when they'll get here." Or, "That person? Nah, I don't know them." Or, "Whose is this? Is it yours? Is it theirs?"
When people first started yelling about having to be polite about genders I always found it odd how they'd angrily refuse to use the neutral pronouns already in English, while using those same pronouns in their own sentences without really realizing it.
The only problem I have with, "They" is that it requires context to distinguish the plural form and the singular. We need a dedicated, genderless word for singular third-person.
Does that really matter? If you're talking to someone the context is obvious, same if you're talking about someone. The cases where not knowing whether they're a group or an individual is a problem is basically nonexistent.
You know we've gone too far when people feel bad for saying thank you sir/mam...
At one point, people thought we had gone too far because they weren't allowed to say the N word anymore.
Sir and Ma'am are only respectful if the person hears it as such.
That’s fine, but also the vast majority of people are content being called by their assumed pronouns. I’m all for inclusion but I’m not going to erase two perfectly innocuous words from my vocabulary because one person might be sensitive about it.
Use your best judgement, if somebody corrects you then apologize and use their preferred pronoun moving forward. If that’s not good enough, that’s their problem.
Eh, it costs me nothing and actually helps me with a personal goal I have to not make assumptions about someone's identity based on what I perceive. As someone who has been misgendered many times in the past, it truly hurts, and while that may be a personal problem, I don't really love going around potentially causing others to feel hurt in any way.
That’s fair and I appreciate your insight here. I imagine you “know” that those who misgendered you didn’t do so intentionally or intend on being hurtful, but I’m sure it still hurts anyway. I’m sorry for that.
I suppose in the real world, using my best judgement means that if I’m unsure, I skip the gendered pronoun. It still requires an assumption based on perception, admittedly not ideal. But I also view sir and ma’am as a traditional sign of respect and I’ve used them liberally my whole life. I usually give an enthusiastic yes sir or ma’am even at the drive through.
It’s obviously a nuanced discussion that we’re not going to solve here and today, but again I appreciate your non-aggressive take, a perspective I didn’t have before.
Thanks for engaging in productive discussion! And yes, I fully realize that in almost all but very specific and relatively easily identifiable cases, misgendering is something that happens accidentally and is not intended to be injurious. But for anyone who does not identify with their gender assigned at birth, it really does feel super bad.
I love that you also seem to have the same regard for social politness as I do. I feel like as someone who wants to use terms of respect to make others feel confident and comfortable, the possibility that I may accidentally do the very opposite of that is something that makes me want to try and better the way I interact.
It’s obviously a nuanced discussion that we’re not going to solve here and today
Fuck that. NO ONE LEAVES UNTIL WE GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS THING!
Edit: /s just in case
Are they wrong about public opinion of the N word though? This entire thread is a collection of words/phrases/actions that people (and often society at large) used to think were completely harmless but gradually realized carried some negative connotation--or were even downright slurs--to certain people, and committed to stop using.
This is not necessarily a dig on you personally, but if you think that people proactively being considerate of fellow humans is a bad thing or "going too far", maybe that's a you problem.
Nah, that sounds like more your thing. I'm going to do what makes those around me happy and comfortable.
Not all people identify with the two-gender labels. For instance, I'm genderqueer, and I'd feel very dysphoric if someone told me "ma'am."
I'm a cis lady and I don't like being called ma'am. It feels so forced and phony.
I mentioned it to my mom the first time I got "ma'am"ed. I'm a cis woman and I hated it! Mom, who looks much more ma'am-worthy than I, said the same thing. I don't know if anyone wants to be a "ma'am."
I don't care one way or the other as long as it's an attempt at politeness. It's fine.
I agree.
This world is going to hell in a wokebasket if people start thinking about what comes out their fucking mouth.
/s, cos you never fuckin know nowadays.
They don't feel bad for using those terms, they feel bad about using them on someone incorrectly. There's nuance here that is lost on those who struggle to grasp the difference and phrasing things as if we're being forced to stop using them or "delete them from our vocabulary" is counterproductive.
I don't think it is univerally okay to make assumptions about someone's personal identity before you know it. I am happy calling someone sir or ma'am after I know their gender identity. But in a casual interaction between strangers, there is no need for it at all and it is just an ingrained and outdated social convention that I personally am striving to move past.
I like the Battlestar Galactica solution to this: sir should not be gendered. It should just be a term of respect and maybe authority. It's gendered more out of convention than definition. I don't know how we reach that point, but that's my reference. I think it basically has to start with the military. They should stop using ma'am for women and use sir.
I really like this take and love it when I come across it in media.
I feel like we made many terms much more gendered than they were before. If I'm hanging with a mixed group and I say "hey guys" towards the whole group "guys" is being used as a genderless, inclusive term.
I personally feel that in everyday casual conversation we should focus on the intent of what's spoken and not get into the minutia of the terminology. Sir/ma'am are terms of respect and the underlying message behind them is respect. If a person accidentally misgendered someone while using them, it doesn't negate the intended respect.
I'm happy for your realisation, OP!
For me it was homophobic and ableist slurs as general words for "bad". It's very common in my native society, so after I started learning more about social justice issues, it took a few years to wean myself off.
Also, looking back, I realise now that in middle school I was lowkey cruel to some classmates, manipulated them for my own amusement. I was never one to bully others, but I was often a bystander entertained by others being bullied. (Even though I was being bullied myself by the same people on other occasions. But I somehow never made that connection with their other victims, I guess my empathy wasn't fully developed back then. Or maybe it was a mental self-defence mechanism, idk.)
As a child, I kind of was pretty greedy and "bullied" my father for most of the time trying to buy the cheaper variants of food or clothing. Now that I know how hard it is to earn money, I really, really feel ashamed of myself for doing that bullshit. I must've put a good amount of stress on my father. I will repay him for all his hard work for me when I get a good paying job in the future. Love you dad!
Call him up and tell him! I'm sure he'd appreciate it.
For starters I don't listen to the band The Mentors anymore. Also I quit watching gory videos long ago and recently quit watching anything that gets me emotionally charged. So much on the internet serves no constructive purpose, it just riles up emotions. We've all heard "you are what you eat", the same goes for what you put in your eyes and ears
I was a huge Taylor Swift fan until she knowingly started dating a racist, sexist dirtbag. Dating someone with such views means you excuse those views. I was and am not willing to financially support someone with those views.
I also used to fly a whole lot. Probably once or twice a month on average. I developed a bad conscious about it and just stopped. I allow myself to fly if I absolutely have to (has happened twice so far), but otherwise I only travel by train or bus. My vacation destinations have changed quite a bit, to say the least.
I recommend "folks" or "fellas".
I still do this in the most gender neutral way possible, is this no longer kosher?
Nah it’s fine, you’re fine.
Some might disagree, but IMO it’s actually a show of respect and inclusion. In Star Trek they call all senior officers Sir, regardless of gender. Love it.
What's wrong with that?
That there is 51% of people who usually do not see themselves represented in those words. Y'all and peeps are my favorites.
I always thought those terms were gender neutral. Girls and boys alike use them where I'm from.
I started addressing people online with "Girls" and some completely lost their shit and got incredibly angry. I kinda think different now about addressing whole groups as "Boys".
I realized that the fact people think "Boys" is neutral and cool but "Girls" is basically an insult is a problem. And I don't want to take part in keeping it alive.
A lot of FLINTA people don't like it. It can be especially upsetting to AMAB people who don't identify as male. It's not the same, but it's similar to things like the n-word, or the f-slur. If someone chooses to use the word about themselves, that's one thing, but if they don't, there's a very good chance you'd upset them.
What do those acronyms mean?
FLINTA - Frauen, Lesben, Intersexuelle, Nicht-binär, Transgender and Agender. It's a German acronym, and basically covers all non-cishet men, though with a bent toward the female side of things.
AMAB - assigned male at birth. Basically if the doctor slapped your arse and said "it's a boy", you're AMAB.
Though not acronyms, I'll expand for clarity:
N word - n****r, a racial slur aimed at black people.
F slur - f****t, a homophobic slur, primarily aimed at male presenting queer people, but pretty common all round.
Cool thanks! I didn't expect German.
When I was in middle school a friend of mine used to dress up and call herself a gypsy. Due to where we live, we didn't know that word was tied to a real life culture. We thought it meant fantasy-like hippies.
Years later I found out the actual meaning behind it and freaked out. Sadly I wasn't still in contact with her by that time, or I would've told her. Though her parents would've complained about it...
Some children Songs I could never sing vor hear again, they make me cringe a lot (racism, sexism, ...)
Making/laughing at jokes surrounding events like 9/11 and the titanic. Out of morbid curiosity, I know far too much about either of them now, they are no longer statistics, and contemplating both genuinely turns my stomach.
There is at least one pretty graphic recording of a phone call from a 9/11 victim trapped on the higher floors, the operator kept trying to reassure her, and it was obvious she knew they were lying. I can't anymore. I've deliberately traumatized myself listening to it, and I've lost my taste for that shit.
But, you know. "If we don't crack jokes, it gets too heavy." Ha-ha, holocaust /s
As I've gotten older (65M), I find that I have grown less hurried and hasty to judge.
Hurrying and rushing really doesn't help me to do anything faster or better, so why bother?
You do need to be able to quickly judge and assess people and situations in many settings and for a variety of reasons. That being said, I find that judging people prematurely can fail to appreciate their extenuating or particular circumstances. Everyone's got their own lives, problems and situations. For that matter, everyone can just have a crappy day. Doesn't mean you have to take crap from people, just helps to give the benefit of the doubt where and when feasible.
"if I were you". When I was younger I lack the ability really consider others' situation and put myself in their shoes. Not because I thought I'm better than them but thought I see a better way. I don't exactly remember when I stopped using it but I'm pretty sure it's around when I realized I would beat the shit out of me if I was my own child.
The same as OP
Same. So glad I grew out of that edgy phase.
"You got gypped"
Always just thought it was the same as being "ripped off" or getting a bad deal. Only in recent years realised that it was in reference to be swindled by a gypsy. I still wondered if the term gypsy was more to do with the lifestyle of the person, like a nomad, and not actually racist but no, gypsies origins are as Romani people. Have since stopped using the term.
Urban Dictionary has a bet each way as to if it is/was racist gypped/gyp't but best not to use it I think
Tubular.
I've never encountered anything I would describe as "tubular." Except maybe tubes. It just doesn't feel right as general slang.
I'm mostly succeeding now at not calling another driver "he" by default. I don't know who they are, and can call them something better, as I just did.
I am so envious of anyone who can do that in their language. It would be so much easier...
I used to eat meat. Don't anymore because the arguments against it are just that fucking strong. Basically unless you advocate for religious supremacy it's hard to make a cohesive argument in favor of meat consumption.
Animals were put on this earth for use by humans is the religious supremacy take.
nothing?
It tastes delicious is a pretty good argument
Heroin feeling really fucking good isn't a good argument for doing it
Lol I was just joking....but I'd say "heroin feeling really fucking good" is the ONLY good reason for doing it. I doubt junkies do heroin n because they like their teeth falling out.
It really is. There are more and better arguments against, but if those aren't a consideration, load me up, fam.
There are times when "ruins the likely short remainder of your life" doesn't matter anymore.
This is the thing. In isolation, enjoyment is a decent argument for anything. But you have to step back and look at the impact of things to see if it's a good or bad thing.
In the case of animal consumption, the pros are:
- it tastes good
- it's convenient
- it means people don't need to change.
(People often add "it's nutritionally necessary" here. I know I did. But that's a myth. You can get everything you need from plants. If that wasn't the case, vegans would be unable to live whole lives without issues, but that's happening)
The cons?
- It causes millions of land animals to be killed every single day, many in a very scary painful way. If you include fish, that jumps up to hundreds of millions
- Animal farming contributes to a big portion of the emissions that are causing climate change.
- It's an extremely inefficient way to produce food for humans. Just think: in order to produce one pound of meat, how much input grains/grass/whatever was there? Why not skip the middleman and eat the plants directly?
- Industrial fishing is destroying our oceans, which also contributes to climate change.
I could go on, but I digress.
But these are the things I came to learn when I went vegan last year. So it came down to a simple question in the end: do the pros outweigh the cons? Do my tastebuds matter enough to contribute to all those problems? The answer was clear enough for me
Context for your second claim. 11% is more precise.
I'd be in favor of a hefty meat tax. But it'd be wildly unpopular.
Thank you for that image. "big portion" is a bit vague, and this does clarify it. To me, 11% is quite a lot of that pie, when you think about:
- Electricity is becoming greener every day due to solar and wind being cheaper than oil and gas
- Transportation is getting greener via EVs
- Industry is getting a focus from people trying to create green concrete and steel
Here's another chart that breaks down that agriculture portion. My understanding is methane is mostly due to cow farts, and nitrous oxide is mostly due to animal urine and fertilizers.
We need to make impacts in all of these sectors, if we're going to fix climate change.
Re: meat tax, we could start by just not subsidizing meat and dairy.
I'm not a vegetarian, but I try to replace meat with plant based products when possible. I also avoid leather. In modern times I've discovered so many negative things about it. The main thing is livestock farming uses literally ten times more resources and creates ten times more pollution than crop farming. Also the the industrial farming of livestock is amazingly cruel.
bUt bACoN tAStE GuD
you have to take vitamin supplements on a fully vegetarian diet though - there are some nutrients that you just can't get from eating 2k-calories of plants a day.
children also shouldn't be forced into a plant based diet, it's not good for them, they won't develop properly - as an example, look at your average North Korean.
Absolutely not. For protein you need like... beans. It's not that difficult. It's fine for kids, and you absolutely don't need supplements. Vegan, maybe you do, not vegetarian.
Half of India is vegetarian. You think they're all sucking down pills and having short kids?
Everything you just said is wrong. Name these mystery nutrients. The only supplements vegans take are B-12 and D.
Vegans have better B-12 levels than the general population, who are significantly deficient, despite all the meat they shove down their throats. Everyone should be taking B-12 supplements. That's how it gets into the meat in the first place. Livestock don't produce B-12 either! Just grow up and take the pill instead of wrapping it in the flesh of an intelligent creature that at one time had the capacity to love you before you murdered it.
Have you ever bothered to check your D level? Most people who require D supplements are not vegans!
Along with your claims about children and North Korea (for some reason) it's clear that you're not talking from any kind of informed position, but you're just saying things that give you a psychological reward for saying them. It's a defense mechanism. This sort of behaviour is predicted by the theory of carnism.
Whenever I start saying "Easy Peasey..." there's always a slightly too long pause before I say "... lemon squeezey "
Christianity.
Can't think of too many, quite honestly. I don't buy into most of the bullshit these days. Moving the goalpost all the time doesn't change the underlying issues and yet that is all most people want to do - make a meaningless gesture to make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside even though nothing has changed.
Enjoying anything. Everything is terrible. How dare I...? But seriously. Everything is terrible.
Apple products. When it started to take away the ability to tune the noise cancellation feature on airpod pro, I decided that's it. You can nerf it to say its for the best interest for everyone. But I'm the consumer who paid full price who asked for the feature that was to isolate the noise, not a fucking compromised NC because you say so. You can at least have the decency to let me tune it myself, but no, Apple decides whats best. So fuck it.
Diet, lmao.
Saying "I feel retarded"
I don't use the word 'faggy' to describe things that are faggy but not in a homophobic way. I also don't eat squid or octopus.
Cruelty and violence towards intelligent creatures every single day until nearly my 40s.
Have casual conversations with other guys about girls appearance, it is a good way to start a conversation and get quick sympathy from other men. But is definitely not right.
One of my standard jokes pre-covid was that "well, you know, I've got politics. like a disease".
Chris cross is either going to make you some applesauce or make you jump jump.
I used to bother people about sexist humor. Turns out most of the time they just have bad humor or are following whatever was funny back when they watched TV. I don't do that anymore. It's not worth my time and it can easily turn a well meaning person into an upset and confused person. I just come up with a good and funny comeback and throw it into their face.
The country where I live had a score of 83.9/100 on the gender equality index, and I'm F29.
I stopped being racist and took up sexism as a healthy alternative.