Men can take their shirts off for hot days and exercise. Why can't women do the same in 2025?
8mon 29d ago by pawb.social/u/Wahots in asklemmy@lemmy.ml
Aside from men being horny in the 1800s, and this being a holdover since that time, is there any actual reason why this hasn't changed?
If society was dominated by women, would this be more likely to change?
I was sweating my ass off hiking in the hot sun, and the question has been bothering me all day after my top soaked through with sweat.
It’s legal where I live, but nobody does it cause women don’t wanna be stared at and cat called when they’re walking around titties out
^Real answer. It’s not just men, you’d definitely get stared at by everybody lol. It’s not bad but I notice a few stares here and there just going without a bra
That's only because it's unusual though. If more people did it, people would stop noticing.
A few women I've asked are happy with it being illegal - they say they just don't want to see it. I don't think I've ever met a man who wants it to stay illegal, because for the most part they do want to see it
As a guy I kinda laugh to myself about those guys who walk around without a shirt on down the street
Yeah. There's the dudes who have spent a lot of time at the gym, and really want the opportunity to let everyone know that. Then there's the schlubby dudes who are just feeling too hot and DGAF what anyone else thinks. Not sure who's more worthy of respect, there
They also don’t want to be photographed and end up with their tits all over social media. Places where this used to be routine (European beaches and so on) there is a lot less of this than 30 years ago. Another thing mobiles phones and social media have made worse
My mom seemed to always have them out.
And we all loved her for that.
In much of Europe and North America, female toplessness is legal. As for why women don't take advantage of it when exercising, breast movement varies from annoyance to uncomfortable and throwing off momentum depending upon size. As a result, many women exercise wearing what is most convenient: a sports-bra top. However, concerns about harassment are sadly valid.
Women are the majority of voting age adults, but they aren't a homogeneous group voting exclusively on gender. 45% of women voted for Trump in 2024.
As a male who exercises in high heat on occasion (35-38c), I have never once thought that I'd rather be naked. I wear breathable, light colored clothing. I also wear a top. Sun burns aren't healthy.
breast movement varies from annoyance to uncomfortable
As a teenager and young woman, not being able to find a good super supportive sports bra for my weird size was one of the reasons I stopped trying to exercise.
I still hold my boobs automatically when taking the stairs or when I run somewhere. Otherwise it hurts and feels like my breasts are being torn away from my body.
I'm a dude, we seldom think about these kinds of things until women bring them up then suddenly women disliking having large boobs makes a lot more sense. Sounds like a bit of a raw deal, fun to look at, terrible to own.
I'm sorry you gave up exercise because of this. Female friends telling me the same is what inspired me to write the response. One was an amazing long distance runner who had breast reduction surgery in high school so she could continue her passion.
Sports bras are a necessary evil for many women. It's not a societal restriction but a physical preference for less discomfort.
Kudos to your friend going through with a reduction to pursue her passion!
In my case, I have a very small band width, so I cannot shop in regular stores. (In my city, there is exactly one shop that has my size.) As a teen and young woman, I simply didn't have the money to even consider a 50€ sports bra, let alone a 100€+ one. And since the selection is super limited, I didn't even find one in my size that would - no matter the money - give enough support for comfort.
Funnily enough, regular wired bras with cups still ended up giving better support than any sports bra I could find. But they still only work so well. (And I, by far, wasn't as passionate about sports as to get a reduction, or spend my limited bra money on a semi working, ugly sports bra.)
My friend was committed, but it helped that it was not uncommon for larger endowed teens where I grew up. Doctors openly discussed the option and it was covered by government health insurance.
I can sympathize with the difficulty of finding the right size. It wasn't until my wife traveled to her country of ancestry and measured at a department store in her 20s that she finally obtained her first bras that truly fit. They still weren't cheap. I think that is when I learned the burden of what is, for most, a medical support garment.
And that is what I find so frustrating. Bras should be treated like a medical device: basic models that fit well should be covered by government health care. The 200-400% markup in most prices is outrageous, and there would be a positive return for society with women more confident in more activities.
Of course, I live in the United States, so we've regressed to the point of figuring out whether dying of communicable diseases is bad.
In my experience (as a trans woman who has experienced both sides of this coin), I can no longer get away with being topless in most situations. However, I can get away with wearing less in more situations. It's acceptable for me to wear a short cut, sleeveless tank top or boob tube in situations where it would be difficult for a guy to wear a singlet or other sleeveless top.
I am personally very upset that on some specific day during my transition, it was no longer acceptable for me to be shirtless in public. During summer I get consent from visitors to my house, and have my housemates consent, so go shirtless at home.
As a (mostly) masc-presenting transfem enby, I'm anxious to reach that point for myself. I feel like I'm in a weird sort of limbo, 'cuz even after two years of hormone therapy I rarely draw any second glances when hiking topless on public trails.
Holding on to some of that sweet sweet male privilege post transition i see :-)
I read a sentence on here these days that kind of resonated with me in regards to if trans women are real women: Of course they are. Who else wants to be a woman in this world.
Vice versa, they can't wear skirts for hot days, but gals can.
The answer is imho, holdovers from more sexist days, and a general attitude of not wanting to be seen as effeminate/photographed by creeps.
Even though guys have been wearing kilts for many years, in various cultures; and there's AI slop now anyway that keeps 'em busy instead.
Iirc it's also allowed in some countries. Naturism is bigger in them.
Men can wear skirts if they want.
Edit: oh, its probably illegal now in the US
As a man who owns multiple kilts I can confirm there will be some assholes that have something to say.
On the other hand, those encounters have been outweighed by the compliments and enthusiasm I've also gotten.
All that said, I say just do you. Haters gonna hate, people will judge. Stop caring about those people and live Your life.
Kilt suggestions?
Wear one or don’t
Huge difference between not wearing a skirt because someone might make ofun of you and not being able to be topless because legally you can be registered as a sex offender. gtfo.
For what it's worth I think it's kinda weird for other guys to not wear a shirt in public, like dude what are you doing, put your shirt on.
Honestly I hate this take, saying everyone should have a to cover up to me is just was weird as saying one group should have to. There is literally no explanation you can give for this position that isn't a personal problem you should get over.
it’s the same kind of statement as saying that, for example, politicians should wear suits… we tend to have expectations that everyone is dressed to a similar level for the context they’re in. in public, that expectation tends to include a shirt of some kind. shirtless is a similar level of “should have to” as arriving at work or a party dressed too casually
But the idea of politicians needing to wear suits is arbitrary too. Why keep meaningless standards? Something should have to be causing an actual problem to not be allowed.
we have meaningless standards for a lot of things… just ask someone on the spectrum what they think of social norms and they’ll have a huge list of things that don’t make any logical sense that people just do
i’m not saying it’s right, but it’s just something that humans do
I get what you're saying. I also think society is too sensitive about nudity in general. I'm certainly not saying men should be fined for not wearing a shirt, it's just my perspective. At the beach or pool is normal, but not just out on the street. Anyway I was only trying to say I don't think stardards between men and women are so different in this particular case. Well I mean standards are definitely different, but (laws aside) not black and white different.
There's also been a rise in swim shirts for boys and men. Which I see as a positive. Especially when it comes to sun exposure
Yeah, basically agree. And if parity is the goal I'd rather see men cover up a little more.
When I was living in Seattle legal nudity was one of the big perks for me! On hot days I'd go around topless, completely nude sometimes, it was amazing. I am trans so the main concern was from phobes periodically trying to threaten me, and on a couple occasions where I was being a bit more wild with things like waving trans flags around while nude I'd have police called on me. They couldn't ever do anything about it though no indecency here officer
I live in Ontario, Canada, where it's perfectly legal for women to be topless.
I've never actually seen anyone exercise that right (at least in person), but it's a right.
Legally it's allowed but socially it isn't. We can't go topless without being endlessly harassed and probably assaulted. It was bad enough when I walked home with my bikini top after going swimming.
I can't argue that one bit.
I'm sorry men are so stupid. (I'm presuming it's men)
Women would absolutely be judgmental about it but it'd definitely be men doing the harassing and assaulting.
In some countries you can, I believe Canada is one of them... at least I believe it's legal to do so in Toronto.
It is, but it never happens. I live at a beach where there are thousands of people on summer weekends, and it never happens.
Vancouver area: Wreck Beach and the South part of Crescent Beach are probably only some places where you would see women with no tops, because they also have no bottoms on.
Gwen Jacobs fought for the right to go shirtless.
Aside from men being horny in the 1800s
Men aren't horny now?
Same, bro. Same.
I was so confused by that.
So I get that socially in most places it is not acceptable for women to go totally topless. We can argue about double standards, but I'll let other people do that.
What I actually have noticed is that nowadays in a lot of Western cultures, women can get away with just wearing just a bra with no shirt in public. No, it's still not being totally topless, but it is a lot better heat-wise than wearing both a bra and then a shirt on top. Just it can't be like lingerie, but more like a sports bra or something. I've done it when heading into a shop after going for a run and not gotten any complains. I see others just occasionally walking around in something a sports bra when it's hot out, not even relating to intense exercise. Try it.
Pretty much anywhere you'll see people who exercise where their workout clothes around town for a bit. I live in the Midwest which gets stupidly humid in the summer, and I've seen plenty of women around with sports bras or something similar (like a workout crop or something). It's just another thing, like when people wear those tiny running shorts.
Although one time at work I did witness a very old leathery man come into the store I worked at in his running attire. Let me tell you, his shorts were like speedos how short they were, and they were TIGHT. Like you saw everything and it was all being pushed forward too, so it made it look like he had this ridiculous bulge.
Lmaooo maybe that was an intentional look then
I’m seeing a lot of this in California! Going out in a sports bra
No, it's ILLEGAL for them to go topless. Literally sex offender registry illegal. In the US in most places.
They can, but harassment from men keeps lots of women from doing so. We already get harassed when we're covered.
I would prefer if men didn't do that either.
I think everyone should be allowed to go shirtless. They ain't hurting nobody. Also, I would if I had a fit body to show off.
Everyone should be allowed to, but i also wish they wouldn't. Not a fan of nipples in public.
This is precisely why I choose to travel to countries where, for either cultural or climatic reasons, it is customary to have more skin covered.
“Nipples in Public” is a great punk name from north west Wales, iirc.
Why are people so obsessed with nipples. They are not particularly different from other body parts
There are quite a lot of places where women can go topless. They just choose not to.
I think choose and are pressured and corsed are quite different.
What is “corsed”
There was a movement to decriminalise women being topless (because it is actively criminalised in a lot of places). Unfortunately it's fallen off. It's particularly ridiculous because women are the ones who have an actual need to expose their breasts in public, ie some women need to breastfeed—no men need to.
Some people get turned on seeing topless men but it's not a sex crime for men to be shirtless in public. Free the nipple 2025
Pretty sure breastfeeding is protected all over the US. It certainly is in Florida.
I'm not even big in that department, don't wear a bra for yoga, but running? That needs a sport bra, and working outside I wear long sleeves to keep the sun off.
I do think beaches here should allow topless suits for women though. That might go a long way towards desexualizing simple nudity, people would get used to it. I agree that it ought not be a rule that you have to cover your boobs at all if you don't want to.
Some people get turned on seeing topless men but it’s not a sex crime for men to be shirtless in public.
This is the thing that really bothered me. It's so one-sided. Perhaps people won't be comfortable doing it, for various reasons, but the legal limitation is what actually irritates me. One silver lining is that a lot of places are starting to allow it, even if culturally, it hasn't picked up yet.
> Some people get turned on seeing topless men
If someone sees my torso and gets aroused, why is it my problem? Moreover, why is this even a problem at all?
You get hots from other people? Congratulations, you're human.
All of this is such a non-issue. And it's just to keep women down.
The enlightened masses constitute a percentage of the total population far lower than you'd think
It's legal in most the US states too.
In many countries in public spaces women can be topless wherever men can. Sadly it doesn't mean they feel safe/comfortable doing so.
Man here
If you ladies wanna walk around shirtless at the gym and work out I personally have no objection and I promise I won't say a word to you.
However you are going get looks, a lot of them.
They can in many areas but chose not to. So you’d have to ask them why they don’t when they can. Why aren’t they setting an example for the other areas? Like New York I believe allows women to go topless. The Empire State. Home of the biggest or at least most populous state in America and they don’t do it.
Home of the biggest or at least most populous state in America
neither, actually. the largest by area is Alaska, while the most populous is California. New York does have the most populous city though.
Weird, I thought I put city. Thanks for quoting me so I can see that’s not what I sent. Either iPhone autocorrect is worse than I thought, or I’m not as young as I used to be.
They can in Canada.
Thank Gwen Jacobs who took the fine and fought it all the way.
Legally, a lot of places it's been court tested, and you actually can. Culturally, it's just kind of that way. Hair is banned in Arabia, tits can hang out in Papua New Guinea. The West says no boobs but hair is fine.
A genital covering is the only cultural universal, although it can sometimes be overly revealing by Western standards, like with penis gourds.
A genital covering is the only cultural universal, although it can sometimes be overly revealing by Western standards, like with penis gourds.
retvrn
Honestly, I don't think it is the men saying you can't be topless. It's other women. I am pretty sure that even though I would get used to boobs everywhere, I would still be in a generally better mood. Boobs just make most guys happy. I don't know if it would make women who are attracted to women happy too, but maybe.
Tbh, I'd much prefer if no one did.
At least in very public spaces like streets.
Because of creeps, freaks, and prudes
As a cis male, I'm totally in favor of this idea.
In fact, I went to school in Germany and I was throwing a frisbee with some friends in the park. It was a beautiful summer day, which was rare, and I retrieved the disc that landed near an attractive young lady sunning herself topless. I still think of her fondly.
And this comment is why women often do not go topless, even if the laws in a country allow it.
Ummm, I really don't like the way you said that. I would like to point out that I was 14 years old at the time and there's quite a difference between seeing something like that and becoming some kind of sexual predator. The human body doesn't seem to be quite the shameful thing in Europe as it is in the US. If we (assuming you are from the US) weren't so perfectly comfortable with violence and gore while simultaneously so puritanical about sexuality, you probably wouldn't feel that way. And finally I do believe it's a bit unreasonable for ANYONE male, female or otherwise to remove one's shirt in public and expect literally no one to look at you. The point should be that it doesn't MATTER if someone looks. Until this is the case, maybe shirts should just stay on.
Someone's jerked off to a memory
Actually he did it right there in the park
In Australia nudity depends on the context. Like it's probably ok at the beach, but less ok most other places.
Not having boobs myself... isn't it uncomfortable just having them swinging around everywhere like if you're exercising?
really depends on the person and the activity. i'm not particularly busty, and i'd rather wear a sports bra if i'm doing jumping jacks or something, but it isn't really needed for my physical comfort just about any other time.
Yes. It doesn’t make sense to go topless during exercise lol. You want that support
TIT SWEAT Need a bra to soak up the pools.
Most people haven't had a thought since high school.
Generous. Most high schoolers I knew would never be caught thinking.
Yeah but they all did it at least once.
Probably about someone else's body, but still.
A matter of social acceptability in general. Some societies, moreso before Western norms became widespread, don't view the breasts in a sexual way and a woman going topless would be completely unremarkable.
Other than the breasts, some societies see the legs as very sexual, so they always cover the legs in public.
I think it would be more likely to change in a female-dominant society, but they could just as well not change it for no obvious reason. I'm sure there's some nuance I'm glossing over, but even though it's legal for me to go out in my underwear as a man in a male-dominated society, I wouldn't do so voluntarily, regardless of the temperature.
You know, I've been in places with lots of nudity, and for the first day or so all you want to do is look. Then after that you stop looking and it just becomes normal. I imagine if women going topless was more common, guys would not look any more than they currently do.
because patriarchy only sees women as sexual objects.
Because there was a movement to make it socially acceptable for men in the 20th century that was successful while the equivalent one for women has been slower, but also has seen some successes resulting in places like New York, New York and Columbus, Ohio permitting female toplessness in public.
You know why. What the heck kind of question is that?
Men. That's why.
They can (Canada) but they don't because guys think with their hormones.
Guys in general like breasts and, until going topless is normalized, those who do will get looks. It's awkward, I'm sure. Perhaps we need a topless pride parade so no one is singled out and we can jumpstart the change in social norms.
Guys in some countries like breasts. I lived in a country where the top of the female was not considered private. I saw breasts regularly. After a couple of months, it was like looking at an elbow. Liking breasts is cultural.
It's absolutely cultural, like so many sexual taboos, but it is a pretty common cultural norm.
I think the normalize is a big part. When I go to music festivals there are quite a lot of topless women and no one cares. It kinda feels novel the first time or two, and then it's like, okay, this is normal.
Normalizing it in the general public would be a lot harder though.
Yes, but also this is why I want guys to put their shirts back on.
I'm not sure I get what you're saying? You're a guy and can't stop yourself from staring at other guys' chests?
No, that's not it. The whole stupid thing revolves around a principle of parity, as you acknowledge. I'd just rather have it go the other way, and am willing to wear a shirt more if that's what has to be done to appease those who want perfect parity in clothing rules between sexes.
Interesting. I lean more towards equity rather than equality, and giving options rather than removing them.
I said parity, but you know, anyway.
Options are great and all, but they're not the be all and end all of self-actualization or whatever. Libertarians always try to sell capitalism and markets as radically freeing, while socialists and communists point out that markets are not inherently liberatory or fair or rational. Some would argue that giving a person the option to harm themselves is important because the freedom is more important than their well-being. A person has the right to spend their entire paycheck on scratchers or buy heroin and lieu of groceries or whatever. More options are not intrinsically beneficial.
And running around shirtless is low stakes to be sure, but it's because of those low stakes that I'd rather it just be discouraged for everyone. Not criminal or anything, just kind of socially unacceptable, like chewing with your mouth open.
At least a little bit of it is because moving around with large breasts and no bra can be painful if they swing or flop the wrong way. I almost never see this brought up whenever this tired question gets brought up online.
Also would you rather try to lead a one (or few) woman crusade against hundreds of years of social conditioning about what'a sexual or not, while dealing with even more guys being creeps, or would you rather wear a shirt (and a bra) and a skirt and get on with your damn life? You can walk around however you want in your own place.
So they cant do something because it could negatively impact them? It's legal to run with knives. Sounds like body policing.
They can where I live.
They don't.
Because men. And very aggressive lesbians too, I'm guessing, but mainly men.
They can pretty much everywhere. The areas where it is against the law are in the minority. Every woman who wants to go topless in public, can and usually does. That's just such a small subset no one sees it.
Dude. If have enough remaining brainpower to ogle women at the gym and enough blood flow to spare to give you a boner I can assure you you're barely working out.
Learn to focus.
That said, being topless (for both men and women) in a gym is gross. Don't leave sweat everywhere. The question is for running outside...
Lol I can deadlift max weight and still get hard 5 minutes later, maybe see a doctor? If anything I get harder easier after excercise because of the blood flow
I'm a grower, I wear boxer briefs, it's just all around uncomfortable to get aroused in public lol, it's not a choice personally, if I could have no sexual feelings when outside id be down actually, men also have to wear shirts at my gym, think its a common rule
I hate the no reason boxers. I was told the would stop in high school....
Everyones fit and wearing basically swimsuits while recording themselves with tripods trying to get tiktok famous, so theres a reason, I actually never had this issue before everyone tried to be a workout influencer, the last decade the gym has become a bit much
You can learn self-control.
Teach, don't preach. This things got a mind of it's own. If you know how to turn off my doppelwanger don't keep it to yourself.
I've gotten rock hard looking at sand. Fucking sand. Don't tell me we can control it.
If you're actually working out you don't have blood flow to spare to have a boner...
And if as you say you can have a boner looking at sand it and don't control it it seems to me like having topless women around shouldn't influence that much the odds you get a boner.
If im at the gym for an hour and a half I take like 5-10 minutes breaks between sets, I max weights and my gym has enough room usually to where ppl arent waiting for the area? Idk anyone who just works out continuously, yeah if I'm actively squatting/deadlifting, I wont get hard but for the breaks in between its a possibility. And it's more like it starts up and goes back down, rather than staying up? But since it grows it's never in a comfortable spot to get hard, itll grow like straight forward.
My wife thinks that we can erect and/or ejaculate at will. Yeah. That not how it works.
Just like any other emotion arousal is a response to a thought. It's a wave of experience that's washing over you. That part you can control but it's less important here. The important part is the thought triggering the arousal. When you are in a situation where you think you can experience sexual outcomes (even if just fantasy) you're likely to trigger your arousal response and pop a boner. These thoughts can also be tied to set and setting. You probably trained yourself not to have erections around family or in places with social stigma around it like most public places. So you have to recognize that you're having a thought of sexualization, then you can reframe the setting as an inappropriate one for sexual arousal.
In the moment you can respond with deep breathing meditation if that helps. Focus on your breathing and think about the thought and (paradoxically) feel the feelings the thought brings. You're doing two things. 1. You're changing your learned response by doing something other than sexualizing a random stranger or sand (which ironically, being silica, is technically rock hard). 2. You're learning how to recognize the thought, emotion and mechanics of it's development to better manipulate it.
It's not like it's quick and easy, it can take a while and some effort, but not being a pest nor feeling guilty about contributing to women's daily difficulty is imo worth it. Not only does this make you a better more approachable person in public but learning about your own arousal can make you last longer (if that's an issue) and have better, more intense and rewarding sex/pleasure. Win win imo!
I used to imagine dead/rotton/gross things, doesn't work anymore, now I try to get sad about dogs dying, etc.
🤣
Ooh that doesn't sound nice, you shouldn't be hurting yourself.
I'm suggesting you learn [train yourself] to be in the presence of women comfortably without even having to worry about getting an erection. It makes it a lot easier to get to know women.
But if you want a men's only gym there's plenty of hole-in-the-wall places called "Iron Pounders" or something like that. At-home weights are also widely available.
Like the equipment is super nice and it's got everything, they did recentlly add cardio machines after not having them for years which prob caused the shift of gender
The taboo is starring/oggling or catcalling a stranger. If you look people in the eyes/face and don't linger then no one is going to care except people who would have been a bother in any case.
Yeah anxiety sucks ass. Speaking from personal and recent experience my suggestion is ACT (or CBT) therapy if that's an option for you.
Yeah I'm setting up an at home gym slowly, the local gym is new and really nice tho, was men only without wanting to be for 4 years, randomly shifted and now its 50/50
Seems you have a plan. Good luck!
K
Idk it's only an issue at the gym, I goto raves bonerfree lol
Afaik they can. At least in NM.
So are there topless women everywhere in NM?
It's legal to be completely naked where I live, that doesn't mean that it's socially acceptable or that it won't count as "disturbing the order"(not what it's called legally, but it's tricky to translate into English well, "förargelseväckande beteende").
But it isn't illegal to be naked😃. So they can, but they don't, usually
I mean, there's pretty much always topless people on the beaches and sometimes suntanning in the parks, but Sweden has a very different view of nudity where it's not as sexualised.
Reading the comments made me wonder how people react to elderly people in a female body and those considered unattractive who go topless. It's probably still harassment?
Yeah. We don't get harassed because those men find us attractive. It's because they want to make us uncomfortable.
During our CrossFit workouts, about 30%-50% of the guys and girls all ditch their shirts. Yes, the women are in sports bras, though the effect is similar and very much the norm.
Women compensate by only wearing the shortest of shorts during winter while men cover their ankles.
Religions ocntrol sexuality to achieve greater control over society. So, there's a massive religious stigma to topless women. Mostly religious men and women want to keep women covered up.
Older women don't like younger women showing their breasts, due to normal aging. As long as relatively older women have more power than younger women, they'll keep the topless stigma in place.
I don't want to be horny all the time seeing women's breasts all the time, not because of religion, quite the opposite. And I didn't really choose to find women's breasts sexual. 🤷♂️ I dunno.
Because you do the want to be horny, women should cover up. Fuck off
Yo, relax. We have calm conversations on Lemmy, this isn't Reddit, let's keep it civil.
I'm saying, I want equality for women, that they too may dress just like us men, and they can in some countries without it being considered a crime or even frowned upon. But I'm just saying that I live in a society where breasts have been sexualized and I'm turned on easily by them. So if women started doing that now where I am, I would become horny. Not by choice. It's a mix of high libido and indoctrination or whatever the word is.
Kids probably don't care.
I think they mean it would not be so cool for kids to be running around topless.
Ooh OK, this makes sense!
Where I am it is frowned upon with men going topless in public spaces unless it is a beach or some private area or they are doing heavy work in particularly hot weather and not just regular spring or summer. It is tolerated but barely so that men are running or exercising without a shirt. Women with just a sport bra or even a bikini top are quite common though, both in exercise and even in town. Personally I think it is equally tacky to be undressed like that regardless of gender, but I'm not really bothered enough to care. It would be considered very rude and sexist to comment on a women in bikini top to dress up though, unless it was upon entry to a space or venue where people are expected to wear appropriate clothes. Clubs tolerate women in barely tops but would not accept a man bare chested.
In business it is expected that men are fully dressed and buttoned to regardless the temperature while women can wear whatever clean and neat that is not showing off too much skin. In casual situations women can have any amount of cleavage but if a man buttons down the shirt so that the top hairs of his chest are showing it is an open invitation for ridicule for trying to be macho even if it is obviously for trying to cool down in 35°C weather. Unbuttoning a shirt all the way is a definitive no-no unless you're a teen or a country bumpkin.
On beaches anybody can be wearing anything though on regular beaches some sort of bottoms are mandatory. From tiny string bottoms only to shorts or swimming suit to burqini. In "proper" sauna you are not allowed swimsuits or shorts at all for hygiene reasons but in public sauna they are mandatory.
So, you see, it is not binary good and bad and humans and society is more complicated than men horny.
It seems over the last 15 years a lot of effort has been put into a movement towards changing the laws in the U.S.
source- Wikipedia
The machines consider the human body, and especially the body's organs related to sexual reproduction as inherently obscene.
The machine believes harm is caused by the sight of these organs and it wishes them to remain hidden under treath of state sanctions until such time as they can be removed.
Do it
There's fewer women than men up until elderly age.
The only way you can take your shirt off for hot days and exercise without getting too much male attention, is when there's enough female competition that men can't take off theirs.
But that also means in bars, churches, libraries, online dating sites, everywhere.
No.
In the United States, for example, by age 45 women are the majority and remain so. As infants and children cannot vote, women also form most eligible voters.
We can but most of the time you kinda feel wierd. excpetion is beach or pool or whatnot or if you are doing heavy labor. With labor I think people feel guilty to give any looks or whatnot. You know freeweight areas to but I think that is because it is so male dominated.
Wear a mesh sports bra?
Female nipples can get erect when aroused.
[edit]
I see the arguments that male nipples can get erect too,
but female ones are far more visible than that of men.
If male nipples got erect like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE9wNkE820w
I would want shirtless men banned too.
They can also get erect from a cold breeze and other reasons just like men's nipples.
It's men and misogyny that's why not.
Erect nipples are a visual sign of arousal
and that attracts heightened sexual reactions,
and whether it's shame, arousal or disgust,
all of them are negative.
And so can men...
Grow the fuck up and start thinking like an adult and not a horny little boy. Oh uncomfortably hot sweaty woman.... She must want me because boobs. Jesus.
I'm a woman. But hey, good luck with your problem. I see you wanted 0 criticism. Good luck 👍
Edit
I must note the irony of you wanting someone to grow up whilst getting very emotional real quick. Again, good luck.
Looks like it's you who are all emotional lol.
And why should that be a bad thing BTW?
I didn't write it to prove I'm not emotional. I wrote it to explain the thought process.
Your thought process is weird and culturally sheltered.
Ok
Hey I don't know if you know this, but people actually can't touch you anywhere without your permission, including your arm!
So if you're about to step in front of a cr and get run over, the person next to you can't grab you arm? Everything is not black or white. I'm speaking in hypotheticals were that would be the situation... Did you even read what I wrote? And do you want to talk about the "not wearing a shirt" thing or...?
Honestly no, I'm not reading your long incoherent rant.
Adults do not have emotions? Maybe you only know cripples.
So a male breast is not part of the gender? Something beging part of what makes you a man or a woman certainly isn't where we draw the line.
So, any woman with a double mastectomy is no longer a woman? Damn, cancer keeps getting harder and harder.
Holy shit, that is a fucked up thing to say.
Like imagine telling a woman with cancer, "luckily, your vagina is the only thing keeping you a woman". As if their genitalia is what defines them as a woman.
What a disgusting thing to say. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Oh, my bad. I'm glad you told her she is only less of a woman because she has no breasts.
People like you are sick in the head.
Women aren't less women because they lose their breasts. They're not less women for not having a vagina, whatever the fuck that means. Like, if your labia or clitoris are removed, are you less of a woman? If your uterus is removed, are you less of a woman? What a disgusting thing to tell women, that their womanhood is their genitals.
People like you make breast cancer so much harder than it already is.
I literally never said any of that.
This is a weird conversation and I just realized I've been having it with multiple different people. I thought it was just one person. So let me recalibrate.
And actually bounce, because this is getting less about what's being said and the ideas behind the opinions and more just emotional garbage... for me at least, sorry. I'm really sorry you're going through a lot. I really wish you a full recovery for ever ❤️ But for me to go down this road with you over an issue I never intended do discuss,and to be honest never said any of the things... No... Sorry but no.
I also hope you get the help you need, and I'm guessing you're American so I wish you all the best going forward. With or without tits and shirts.
Bye ✌️🕊️
Edit
I just realized you're not the cancer girl. However, everything still stands.
God luck ✌️🕊️
Part of, you also have your vagina?
Part of
you also have your vagina?
You say disgusting things and try to backtrack when called out on them. You are such a coward to say horrible things and then pretend you didn't.
No woman is defined by her breasts, vagina, or even chromosomes, and losing any part of her is not being less of a woman. Any woman with breast cancer is just as much of a woman before as after. Fuck you.
Definitionally, if you say a part of being a woman is having breasts, and a woman doesn't have breasts, you are saying they are either less of a woman or not a woman at all.
Either that, or your initial argument is wrong, and having breasts has nothing to do with being a woman, so there is nothing wrong with going topless as a woman.
I will say it feels like you definitely believe not having breasts makes you less of a woman because you said "technically makes you a woman" here, which is a weird thing to say if you were arguing that women shouldn't be allowed to go topless for some sex-related reason.