An Update on Jordan Lund and a Goodbye to Lemmy.world
8mon 24d ago by lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/Stamets in yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
First off... I just wanted to again say thank you to everyone who responded to the help post that I recently made. The outpouring of support was genuinely kind of insane and I never expected it. I'm going to make a different post elsewhere on that but like... I cannot thank you enough.
But for the post itself, this is in reference to this post that I made on September 17th about Jordan Lund's behavior as a lead moderator on Lemmy.World. His behavior beyond the realm of questionable and into active hostility and misinformation. A user commented on that post and 'd Ruud, the head admin of Lemmy.World.
Which, you know, totally fair and valid. Who would want that person reflecting the instance? Especially when a term was used about the Canadian government that Jordan wasn't aware of and instead of asking for clarification, or doing a simple google, he just banned Canadians and doubled down repeatedly. But in that same thread, another Admin clarified they had talked to Jordan about this specific thing and told him it was unacceptable.
Yet 3 and a half hours later, Jordan reaffirms his stance and insists that his half-baked understanding of Canadian politics is correct. For the comment and then an immediate explanation of how he is both an idiot and a liar, check here.
This all happened nearly 10 days ago. The head Admin saying that he publicly doesn't want Jordan to be the face of the instance, another Admin saying his behavior is unacceptable. What has happened? From a public perspective? Effectively nothing. The only thing that has changed is Jordan is down two communities under his moderation belt. One of those was a dead community that was never used and the other was the Community Spotlight team.
Now there's a thousand reasons to dislike Jordans behavior but as a Canadian? His stubborn refusal of acceptance that he doesn't know a thing and stubborn refusal to even acknowledge when someone has proven him wrong has pushed me over the edge. As far as I'm concerned, the United States declared war on Canada when it threatened to use economic force to coerce us into becoming a part of that country. So the idea of an American in control of World News who seems to subscribe to this type of American Exceptionalism? Or at least is too narcissistic to admit fault? I can't stomach it.
But for the Admins to publicly say that they've told him his behavior is unacceptable but then refuse to enforce that? Even when Jordan is flaunting it in the exact same thread and ignoring everything the admins said? Either no one ever talked to Jordan to say that it was unacceptable or someone did talk to Jordan but he just doesn't care. Evidently neither do the admins to enforce their own position on the matter. It has been nearly 10 days and if anything is being done then the movement is a breakneck glacial pace.
I can't in good conscience ever give another second of traffic to Lemmy.World. I moved over from Startrek.Website because of a particular person way back when. One admin on the team who was a friend of mine and had encouraged me to join there when I was looking for another instance. He doesn't even have any involvement in LW anymore and neither do pretty much anyone that I originally knew from the team. It isn't the same site that I started on. Maybe I never paid enough attention when signing up to make a better and more informed decision, who knows.
What I do know is I've moved to Dbzer0. Db0 has been offering a spot on the instance for over a year at this point and after careful consideration of a variety of instances... Dbzer0 is also the one that I would probably fit best with. So if there's anyone out there who hates me and had Stamets@lemmy.world blocked, here's your cue to block this account now too. Because with a new account comes a very small number of posts. That Stamets@lemmy.world is #44 on the amount of posts made by any Lemmy account.
I've got some catching up to do.
To all my friends on the LW team, I love you and support you. To the admins who had a say in this? I'm just deeply disappointed. I've seen the speed moved on certain things. A week and a half when y'all admitted you were talking about him before I even made that post? Come on.
Of course lemmy.world admins didn't hold Jordan accountable. If they did, that would mean recognizing their bias and trying to correct it - can't have that.
I will say that I was speaking to an admin, before and after this post, and I was told that they're talking about it but due to a lot of their own rules on removing community moderators it's more of a process that requires more time. Totally grant that and it makes sense, it's just more time than I'm willing to let go.
Even if it takes time, be transparent about it, update the community and explain how long you expect things to take.
Keeping people in the dark will quickly be interpreted as "we don't care"
we just want it to blow over vibes
"Why would we remove him now? We love that he removes content we dislike, like calling out genocide, non-Americans knowing better, and any criticism of our favorite political party."
we're working on his ability to do pr as we just dislike how he makes us look not what he does
O/U on just a new account gets added as the other is removed? If does more than just a wrist slap?
jordan has been removed from our community team several days ago and we're still reviewing further stuff to determine additional actions to take.
there is no clear date to put on this other than my previous comment about it taking several days, as this is all shitty work that takes time and is not something that anyone is looking forward to do. it's obviously our responsibility to review an act in situations like this, but there is only so much time available from volunteers. i'm hoping that we can finalize it this weekend, as weekends tend to be when people have more time available.
there have been multiple voices within our team, as well as from Ruud, to simply strip his moderator permissions from all communities, but this is not something aligning with our rules, especially as this specific part was established after the c/vegan drama some time ago. there are multiple reasons justifying removal of moderators from LW communities, but if we apply them we need to ensure that we have proper justification for that, for every affected community, which is the main thing that is currently still being worked on. i expect that we will find valid justifications for at least some communities, but we need to do this before the removal.
the actions taken so far were primarily relating to his behavior while being a member of our team, not due to his behavior as a community moderator or regular user, as we intend to hold our team to higher standards than regular users or moderators, making this a lot easier to justify.
They won't because they like what he does.
Let's see after this week-end. A thorough review of all the actions listed in the post would indeed take a while.
It's been over 10 days, I am doubting they'll remove him fully.
I'll donate $5 to lemmy.world's servers if they do before the end of September 2025. Please hold me up to this.
Let's see after the weekend.
Well, here we are on Sunday night. Nothing been done.
The days become weeks, which become months. While .world covers up their favorite troll made mod.
Awesome, thank you.
So is 10 days to remove the moderation permissions just not enough time? I've been a mod on Lemmy on another account, making a mod and removing mods doesn't take anything longer than 2 minutes.
should we just purge all mods of LW communities because someone says so? we don't arbitrarily remove mods without a proper review. it's not the action of removing someone that requires time but the review whether it should be done.
should we just purge all mods of LW communities because someone says so?
Of course not. But you equally shouldn’t frame this situation as some completely arbitrary complaint made by the platonic default user.
There is a clear pattern of abuse, arrogance, and animosity over a substantial span of time. Individuals from the .world admin team have observed and commented on some of these actions on multiple occasions. None of what Stamets collected and organized in his post was new information hitherto unknown by you all.
As you are the one commenting now, I will assume that you speak for the .world admin team as a whole. I appreciate that you collectively wish to make a calculated and informed decision, and I understand the time burden that comes with volunteer efforts. Ultimately, however, instance administration is not a court of law. Moderation is not a livelihood. The only consequences of relieving Jordan of his volunteer burden are community outrage and hurt feelings. He can't sue you to be reinstated or win a judgement for lost wages.
While I applaud your desire to foster the appearance of keeping everything above board and within the boundaries you all have put in place for yourselves, I must also deride what appears to be unintended hypocrisy: It sounds as if you all have decided what needs to happen and are now engaged in finding the narrative that fits the rules and gets you to your predetermined outcome.
Ubi pus, ibi evacua, not ubi pus, regula consule.
Of course not. But you equally shouldn’t frame this situation as some completely arbitrary complaint made by the platonic default user.
Yeah this seems to be an unfortunately common tactic with people like them, they just deflect and act like we're asking them to just go around purging moderators at will because we told them to with no credible reasons.
Lemmy.world deflecting any blame of their users? Unheard of! Next you'll tell me they hate it when .ml does the exact same thing but it's somehow different.
It's been months of issues with one user, by multiple users saying he's been an issue. He's been transphobic. He's been defending genocide. He's been defending banning people for knowing better than he does.
It's not oh one user doesn't like him it's dozens of users over months to over a year with complaints.
If anything else moved this slow we'd call it out too.
How long does it take? Because people have been asking for this for months.
I objected to his appointment from the beginning
If you can complete the review by the end of the week-end it should be fine.
I don't know why people are so impatient when things are actually moving.
At the very least, more transpancy would be good. It looks like they're doing the same thing they've done for months while saying "we're doing something now."
Does not help the same person said "if one person complains why should we remove them?" Which is not the argument being made.
We want Jordan to be removed. They aren't doing it while saying they're working on it.
The comment above is transparent enough for me: https://lemmy.world/comment/19613753
i’m hoping that we can finalize it this weekend, as weekends tend to be when people have more time available.
It's okay, I started posting to world@quokk.au to keep myself busy in the meantime
Again, I'll pay the $5 if in wrong. But the admin team of .world has said they'll do something before and never acted on it.
unfortunately it's still not finished, but we have an update here now: https://lemmy.world/post/36621226
I understand time is needed for a proper review as well as needing additional time to accommodate for the fact that it's all run by volunteers.
However, most of us simply want transparency. There has been no formal announcement thread on this to my knowledge, just replies to the threads that get started about it.
If you're investigating, announce what, why, and how far along. Give us details as to what's going on and the options that are on the table. It doesn't have to be a meticulous blow-by-blow, but the transparency so far is on the other end of the extreme. Maybe if y'all were trying to move against him before he knew what was happening I could see it, but there's no way he doesn't know what's going down at this point.
i tend to be too optimistic on the timelines in which we get things done, especially when they are moderation related. we have just published an official update on the current situation: https://lemmy.world/post/36621226
Yea I get that, we share the timeline problem, I'm always too optimistic on them shits at work lol
Thank you for this comment, good luck with the review.
That's a bullshit copout. We're not changing the laws of physics here. It's a fucking internet website. If the rules are insufficient, change them.
Not entirely against how I feel but I want to clarify here that I've got no ill will towards them over this. Disappointment in how they've handled this, yeah, but I can see where they're coming from even if I disagree with it
I wish I was at all surprised but this is how the admins have always acted. Especially when it's something they want to do but the users hate
10 days to remove a mod, 10 seconds to remove someone disagreeing with JordonLund.
Welcome to the Flotilla! What this effectively means is that the content of /0 is about to get 1000% more Star Trek flavored, which for the record I'm happy with,, since we're probably the most ND-oriented instance out there and these two fit like lego :D
While this doesn't exactly for this comm, it is technically about a result of mod power trippin' and stamets has asked permission for it. So it's all good.
since we're probably the most ND-oriented instance out there
cough
Have you met trans people? :P
I know y'all have a very high ND-percentage, but I'm still technically correct since you're not explicitly ND-oriented, but rather just have a high-percentage of NDs as a result of your actual orientation. And, lemme have this one, hey? :D
Ok ok fine :P
db 0 - Blåhaj 1
db 1 - Blåhaj 0
Wait, did we iterate to 1 when I wasn't looking?
lemme have this one, hey? :D
When you spell lemmy right
fuck
Why yes, don't mind if I do
bonk
Harder, Server Daddy
You win this time...
I didn't realize you two were into watersports. Kinky.
Honestly I was considering moving here originally after ValueSubtracted had a log surgically implanted up his ass. The name alone was cool enough...
And you say that you're happy with it but you just wait buddy.
You just wait.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Well if I threatened you with a bad time your name would be ValueSubtracted and no one wants that
I got that reference
You have my sympathies
You'll get sick of me soon enough
You know nothing of my true power yet... I've been sending them in English... just you wait...
Time to use Newfie? No one will understand!
Not a bad idea. Even just speeding it up alone...
😂
Yeah Lemmy.world has a big problem with moderation, specifically where the rubber meets the road. They seem to want to appeal to everyone in the most garbage enlightened centrist way. They're still federated with hilariouschaos by the way despite it being clear that it's a clone of exploding heads and they said they want to keep it federated because they "aren't hurting anyone" fuck that and fuck them. They need to grow a spine and actually enforce their rules knowing that it doesn't matter if you piss off right wing dipshits.
Lemmy.world will align with actual neo nazis then get pissy when we call out Nazi dog whistles.
They’re still federated with hilariouschaos by the way despite it being clear that it’s a clone of exploding heads and they said they want to keep it federated because they “aren’t hurting anyone”
Especially with the recent evidence: https://piefed.world/post/488105
Small reminder that out of the 20th most active communities on the Threadiverse
- 16 are on Lemmy.world
- 1 is on mander.xyz
- 1 is on lemmy.blahaj.zone
- 1 is on midwest.social
- 1 is on piefed.social
Lemmyverse.net does not show Piefed nor Mbin communities on the Communities list.
I'm was pretty sure our /c/piracy should also be in the top 20 but maybe we just have a lot of inactive subs.
piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com is probably top 100 (not easy to count without an index column) with 1500 weekly active users
flippanarchy is more active
yeah, I noticed that flippanarchy is more active than both adhd memes and piracy. Wild times we're livin' in!
We should ask for an index column for the feed lol
Shouldn't be too hard, do you want to raise this on the Zulip?
Yeah, done. See what they say.
Thanks!
I left .world when they started cracking down on Luigi content in Dec. I see I made the right choice.
No arguments here...
Welcome to the instance! I hope your time here is found enjoyable.
Not shocked at all Jordan didn't even get punished. It's an internet moderator gig, you take .5 seconds to appoint someone, and they can even remove themselves.
Let it be known that .world is a liberal copy of .ml that they loudly complain about. Removing things they disagree with, power tripping mods, and an enforced point of view amung the communities the power mods and admins control. They just don't like that .ml does it for different political reasons.
If .world was gone I'd miss a few people, but we'd have less zionazis, transphobes, and generally smug insufferable people.
Let it be known that .world is a liberal copy of .ml that they loudly complain about.
Any day now they'll move to the Java version of lemmy they are working on to get away from the dirty lemmy devs.
I mean https://piefed.world/is a thing, and Piefed has more features than Lemmy at this point (until the well expected Lemmy 1.0 comes)
Could never tell if they actually wanted a lemmy clone they did or couldn't find something else to move to or wanted to make their own.
I think Piefed hides moderation activity, so there's that.
*Edit: Used to not be public, has since been changed.
It does not: https://piefed.social/modlog
Oh good to know, thanks. Last I'd looked it was not public, and/or it was an instance admin decision to publicize. I'll edit.
Thanks!
Jfc of course they don't want that public...
And you can get around it by having votes for moderators
https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues/469#issuecomment-2909710
That's a 6 months old thread, since then modlog is visible on Piefed: https://piefed.social/modlog
Could not find it anywhere so thank you.
Looking more at piefed that's probably where world will move too.
Parts I dislike, like shadow moderating, and lack of transparency on actions are honestly exactly what the lw admins want.
shadow moderating, and lack of transparency on actions
Huh, I thought it didn't have a modlog too. Why is it not linked anywhere in the interface?
That's a good point, I'll raise it to the devs
misread the title as "An Update on Lemmy.world and a Goodbye to Jordan Lund" :(
i don't use .world commags often but off the top of my head i remember him removing links just because they use CMSes like WordPress or Substack; news flash, that's what Time magazine uses. he doubles down: https://midwest.social/comment/16270405
But then again I’m an oblivious fool who didn’t even know PugJesus existed
how-
how dare you
Sorry on the title fuckery then... don't mean to be the bearer of bad news there.
Jordan was indeed known for doing that. He doubled down a lot in the recent thread I made too.
How dare you
We just don't overlap so I didn't know who he was for a long time
Very cool graph, where is this from?
A buddy made some Lemmy tool and showed me the graph comparison between us which is how I figured out who he was. I asked him if I could share it, the tool I mean, but he hasn't gotten back to me on that yet.
Keep us updated, this is the kind of tool we've been missing to make the Threadiverse more fun
Well I can now say that I'm allowed to share it!
That's awesome, thanks for sharing!
Very cool, thanks!
edit: posted https://lemmy.zip/post/49650770
Just inside the all time (since tracking started) top 500, I'll take that
Whoa, I've been a top 1000 user for the last month!
I was wondering why I blocked that asshole Smugjesus but he keeps popping up anyways.
Doesn't help he made an alt just for a community dedicated to internet slap fights, until the admin of that instance removed it because it was petty Internet drama he was stiring up.
You'd think after years of people telling him to look in the mirror he would, but instead he is always right, anyone who disagrees with him about what to put on a sandwich is a fascist Tankie. Or whatever insult he has that week.
Glad to have you here, and welcome!
(OK maybe I should have posted this from my dbzer0 account and not my anarchist.nexus one, but its all part of the same parade anyway)
Same difference either way <3
Hope y'all wont' get too annoyed with me too quickly.
Slightly different note, I decided to check my upvote count with your LW account, and, well... I think its perfect
Like it was meant to be....
Also holy shit, thank you
... Only if you start slacking on those memes! 😀
Hey the only reason I stopped posting earlier was a 503 error. I'M TRYING!
I even left a comment under Ruud's comment asking him why nothing had been done after 5 days. His response? Crickets.
Good luck with the move, looking forward to more memes :)
Oh I have soooooooooooo many to unpack. I've been slacking way too much lately.
Yay! Now we have our own Support Canadian.
Am I a joke to you? -- Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Tbh I think Stamets would win in a "whose the most Canadian?" contest... :p
I have a maple leaf tattoo!
Yay! More Canadians! It is sad. I am a 3 hour drive from Toronto and still haven't visited. Expect, I would probably never want to leave. I do get to visit the french side for work at some point, which wasn't a great experience for my other coworker.
Until you get incredibly sick of me and regret that donation
Glad you made the move buddy. Welcome!
Why thank you very much <3 Now prepared to get annoyed
Nice, my hexbear account will get to see your posts now
And get annoyed with them just as fast
Canadian here. Also frustrated at Jordan's Americansplaining of Canadian things. Also also incredibly enraged over current US government trying to destabilize Canada (and laughing at how they failed)
Curious: any particular reason why dbzer0 over sh.itjust.works?
You and me both on all of it. It's bad enough we have a whole ass country effectively declaring war on us. Allowing Jordan to continue that type of nonsense? Nuh uh.
As for why db0, there's a few reasons but all of them are more personal than anything else. Like not stuff I could accurately describe to you. Also I like the name a little better to be honest
Out of genuine curiosity, how do you guys define a member of government?
Under Canada's Westminster-style parliamentary democracy, the terms government and Government of Canada refer specifically to the prime minister, Cabinet, and other members of the governing party inside the House of Commons, but typically includes the federal public service and federal departments and agencies when used elsewhere.[7] This differs from the United States, where the executive branch is referred to as an administration and the federal government encompasses executive, legislative, and judicial powers, similar to the Canadian Crown. Source
In Canada, a "Member of Government" (note the capitals) is a member of the ruling administration. America uses stuff like "Trump Administration" or "Obama Administration" but in Canada we just call it the "Government of Canada". There started to be a slight drift during Harper (the Prime Minister before Trudeau) towards calling it the Harper Government but there was a large amount of pushback because the terminology "Government of Canada" is both a legal and traditional one. Calling it a specific government makes it feel dissociated from the country and not serving us.
So when the user said that a particular elected MP was not a Member of Government, he was meaning that he wasn't in the ruling party. This is normal and common usage in Canada. Jordan, however, was unaware of this distinction. He removed the user for misinformation. Since then he has been told he was wrong by every Canadian and by the admins themselves but refuses to back down. My guess is because he's a narcissist who is incapable of ever admitting fault because it would shatter his pathetically fragile ego.
Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining it to me.
Narcissistic egos are the frailest thing on the planet.
To all my friends on the LW team, I love you and support you. To the admins who had a say in this? I’m just deeply disappointed. I’ve seen the speed moved on certain things. A week and a half when y’all admitted you were talking about him before I even made that post? Come on.
I wonder if we can make a site/community that is just counting the total days since the admins of .world have said something and then done nothing about it.
JordanLund is the current example, but a while back they also wanted to platform flat world beliefs and the ilk, saying that if they remove them it's bad, but debate solves them. As if platforming them doesn't spread their dumb irrational ideas.
Kind of like that one site that tracks the lies of Elon Musk, with a count for each day it has passed since then. Or how Rush Limbagh said he would do waterboarding.
Would love that simply for lw people to see since so much is hard to see or find unless it pops off.
And still waiting for the response to their flat earthers are equal plan
Surely, someday we'll get it. We got Silksong and eventually will get GTA 6.
Here’s hoping you don’t find similar difficulties on db0, he said ominously.
db0 has a its own imperfections as do we all[1], but they are manageable as long as you don't disagree with the mod team about a handful of hot-button issues. Lemmy.world is just reddit with less traffic and more aggressive obnoxious people, and also you can't disagree with the mod team about a (distinct) handful of hot-button issues.
[1] Misquoting from Sadhguru: "Where are these perfect people? In all the time I have been alive on this earth, I have not met them. If you find some, let me know, I would love to spend time with them, but in the meantime we must all make do with what we have."
There's actually a markdown syntax for citations [^1]
[^1]: Press the view source button on this comment to see.
Oh, that's very cool... I can't look at the source from /0 though, and Piefed doesn't render it right 😭
Yeah, piefed doesn't seem to be able to handle image titles or spoilers either.
Things that were exhaustively detailed in the ActivityPub spec: An arcane example involving creating a post using emacs and then later editing it from some other platform if you can even believe that, and how the clients should behave in that case
Things that were not detailed in the ActivityPub spec: Direct messages, threaded communities, precisely defined formats for content. Why would we need that stuff
And making sure a post came from the server it claimed to be from (http signatures are special kind of hell), quotes, poll answers (mastodon's implementation of these are awful, they send the answer as a fucking DM, so if a server has a bug or something, someone will get an inbox full of poll answers), anything on c2s besides inbox and outbox, and looking up handles (y'know, so you can find a user without the url for their account. and so mentions can work reliably. ) and fucking reposts/boosts.
The source is
There's actually a markdown syntax for citations [^1]
[^1]: Press the view source button on this comment to se
Welcome to the coolest club! :3
Well I'm about to make it spammy... my apologies
Honestly, I think I'll do the same. I'm sick of the LW mod bs anyway
Join ussssssss
Good-bye Jordan, lol beers on me tonight boys.
world@quokk.au seems to be getting more engagement lately, maybe there's hope
DNC/Zionists talking points don’t enforce themselves on news, world and politics communities
Man, get your dishonest complaints about lemmy.world away from our legitimate complaints about lemmy.world please.
I’ve said it multiple times that it is a narrative shaping operation on fedi.
Boy howdy you definitely have that part right.
ITT: lots and lots of incestuous drama that is totally incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't spend 23 hours a day on federated social media.
Welcome to the lemmyverse periphery! Hope you'll find your place in dbzer0!
Best of luck to you!
One of us!
Until you get sick of me
Love and appreciate ya stamets!
And right back at you <3 Again apologies for all my bullshit lol
Yeah it made me pretty unhappy to see the "News" community just be an American news feed, and to know that this dumb yank moderates the "World News" community with the same pigheaded USA-centric attitude that we've come to expect from Americans is disheartening.
I can't do Db0 because they love AI over there and I sort of don't feel comfortable joining a bunch of anti-human dorks looking at a feed of robot slop, so that's out of the picture, but I'll find somewhere!
I can’t do Db0 because they love AI over there and I sort of don’t feel comfortable joining a bunch of anti-human dorks looking at a feed of robot slop, so that’s out of the picture, but I’ll find somewhere!
I mean you can just ignore the AI-themed communities on dbzer0.
And all of the AI bullshit in non-AI communities?
What ones? I am unfamiliar with that in dbzer0. Would there be AI posting in political communities there?
Not that I can recall. We also now have the requirement that any posts involving GenAI are tagged.
Where?
I sort of don’t feel comfortable joining a bunch of anti-human dorks looking at a feed of robot slop.
That was uncalled for, lol. In my experience we are a very diverse group of dorks and I sort of dont feel comfortable with antagonizing attitudes such as yours anyways, so, thanks.
Indeed, I kind of missed that when I read the comment the first time
I think the ammount of "hate" Db0 has been getting lately makes people kinda blind to it.
- Stand up against genocide, people get mad
- Stand up against Nazi bars, people get mad
- Stand up against harassment from instances, people get mad
- Stand up for the moral consistency of copyright is a shit show from 1500s Scotland, people get mad
- Stand up for the person documenting a moderator's abuse of privileges, people get mad.
- Stand up for people speaking and minds and voting how they feel, people get mad.
I think they just hate us and want any reason to have a "valid" reason. How dare we disagree with their moderator enforced hivemind.
Hey now, some of us dorks exist outside of db0 too!
You're very welcome 🤖🤖
Actually I just wanted to add: I didn't criticise the diversity of people on your instance, or anything of the sort. I think diversity is a great thing, and I'm glad that you find Db0 to be a diverse place!
So you didnt just called the entirety of the instance a "bunch of anti human dorks looking at a feed of robot slop"?
Because it sure sounded like you did.
I didn't criticise the diversity outside of the anti-human nature of the instance, no.
You can be a very diverse group of people, but have shared beliefs. I made no comment about the diversity of that instance, even in the bit you quoted.
I can’t do Db0 because they love AI over there and I sort of don’t feel comfortable joining a bunch of anti-human dorks looking at a feed of robot slop, so that’s out of the picture, but I’ll find somewhere!
You can ignore those communities, we don't ban/prohibit people because they don't like it.
But hey glad to know you think we're non-human because some people enjoy using their computers for things. Your morals can be sold because someone did something on their computer that doesn't impact you.
https://lemmy.zip/(or https://piefed.zip/if you want to give Piefed a try) are good generalist options
Thanks, Blaze! And thanks for all the content you create, I deffo recognise your name!
Happy to help!
Hey stamets! Good to see you outside of ten forward! Keep up the good work homie! And I like db0 because the hexabear idiots hate them. Really the best indicator I've seen
Oh I'll be out of TenForward for the foreseeable future. Mostly because I made a new community. The current mods at 10F didn't want to shift over which I completely understand and get. I opened another community with a different name so I'm not stepping on their toes. Someone elses toes? Who cares.
Good luck!
Given your response to even mild critism of the DNC, you might find yourself at odds with db0 pretty quickly.
I'm not even eligible to vote, let alone in a swing state.
You are directly responsible for the deaths of many Palestinians
"Directly" responsible huh? Words mean nothing to BlueMAGA delusion
Lol. You people are beyond parody.
You kinda proved their point.
Do you think you're innocent?
You didn't try. You cast one worthless vote for a loser and then did literally nothing else, and you've done literally nothing in the 10+ months since you voted.
Yet you act like you're some kind of fucking hero and that you can just wait around for the next election, doing literally nothing in the meantime. You just pay your taxes and follow the law and go to work, same as everyone else. You think you're any better? You are also complicit. You share the blame.
And we have to work together or we're all gonna die.
We both voted for a candidate that lost, I just chose to vote for a candidate that didn't support the genocide.
Did you do anything besides vote? Or did you just do one worthless thing that accomplished literally nothing?
Yes, I helped canvas door to door for the further candidate running away from the current status quo.
Cool, I've phone banked. Never done the door-to-door thing but I might give that a shot if there's candidates worth risking my life for.
Here's the thing: they're not going to let us vote this away. If you don't have a plan outside of electoralism you're going to run into a brick wall.
Yet according to MeanwhileOnGrad, we're somehow evil because Hexbear talks about us.
I'm not sad to see you've left LW, but I am sad to see that you're choosing db0 as your new home. I used to have really positive feelings towards that instance, but I was left very soured on them after an interaction I had a few weeks ago involving some pretty damn blatant abuse of mod/admin powers (admittedly, a different admin seems to have stepped in to correct some of the abuse, but the abusive admin is still around and has not been reprimanded). It feels no different to the shit that Lund engages in.
admittedly, a different admin seems to have stepped in to correct some of the abuse
Seems faster and more fair than what LW is doing due to rules overhead:
Edit: goat commented after reversing the dbzer0 bans on ! meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works , which was part of an escalation between PugJesus and goat on one side, and dbzer0 users and admins on the other
I want to start by saying that I know I played a part in letting this spiral out of control. For my part in escalating the situation, I apologise. I do not want this to keep escalating. I want to explain where I was coming from and why I made the choices I did. For starters, I was suffering, and still am, from a loss in my family. I try to keep my personal life separate, but anxiety still seeps through. I’ll try to keep that under control better.
More details on https://lemmy.world/comment/19464677
For the YPTB link: https://lazysoci.al/post/34408656
More details on https://lemmy.world/comment/19464677
When I tried to talk about it, I was called a nazi and a fascist, then banned along with people who defended me.
And that thread is now 10 days old and has not had any further comment from the db0 people.
Which is sorta my point. They might not be as bad as Lund is, but they're at the very least of the same kind. And I don't love embracing that. Why not go to lemmy.zip, one of the country-specific instances, or pretty much any Piefed instance (I don't think I've ever seen admin drama out of a Piefed instance) instead of going from one drama-filled abusive overlords to another?
And that thread is now 10 days old and has not had any further comment from the db0 people.
The dbzer0 people commented on the other thread I linked in that comment.
The main dbzer0 admin:
This was unexpected but I’m glad goat came to their senses and realized we’ve never been tankies. Unfortunately all this caused a lot of bad blood which will take a while to heal, but I personally don’t hold grudges like that.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21526306
They might not be as bad as Lund is, but they’re at the very least of the same kind.
That whole episode was quite something, there's a detailed post about it if you want: https://aussie.zone/post/24299113?scrollToComments=true
My comment there was this one: https://aussie.zone/post/24299113/18642086
Basically, PugJesus was keeping using one comment from a dbzer0 admin, when that same admin made another comment just after that clarified their stance.
There was a lot of antagonism at the time, now things to have calmed down for a bit.
And if you want to see actual admin abuse, let me show you this comment, with a SJW admin calling me an "energy vampire": https://aussie.zone/post/17029239/14339689
I never reached out to the other SJW admins about that chain of comments, that admin doesn't seem that active anymore, but just to say that no admins are perfect, I try to not hold grudges to other instances if another admin stepped in and correct the wrongdoing of another one.
Edit: just had a look again, the SJW admin was defending the power trip of the 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone mods.
Wow, the SJW admin was mad at you documenting shit. More proof to never make an account there.
Still find it interesting that Zag hasn't responded to this info. Almost like they have a hate boner for db0...
I'm not going to pretend db0 is perfect but the admin team is miles better than .world, SJW, and .ml
Edit: hey I was right!
I've discussed with @Zagorath@aussie.zone several times before, they've always been nice. Let's not forget that there was indeed a power tripping action that db0 corrected.
Things are more nuanced than "this person has a hate boner"
lol wtf is wrong with that person? I assume the person you're responding to has to be a troll, because that's genuinely the only way their comment makes sense. They're accusing me of having a "hate boner" because...I didn't read a thousand words in the timeframe they would like? Fuck off dickhead.
Yeah Eugene is known to be overtly defensive about dbzer0, while again, in this case there was a mod decision that was overruled, but there was still a power tripping decision at the beginning.
People can make mistakes, the most important part is about correcting them.
Yeah, I admit fault there.
Edit: I was basically right, judging by their reactions in this thread.
Zagorath also admitted fault
Oh yes, looks like it was. My bad. Well that’s certainly better than my last run-in with Lund.
The fact that the admins have demoted Lund, but not actually taken away the powers that he was abusing. 🤦♂️
lol, what happened to "I will assume good faith and intelligence until proven otherwise."
Well seeing as you just freaked out over our admins having a username, claiming a comment being removed as a ban, and you made yourself look like a troll the entire time...
Aww sweetums, I see those silent downvotes. Can't take some genuine criticism? Grow up, troll.
Yikes. Even I'm not this petty.
That whole episode was quite something, there’s a detailed post about it if you want
There's a lot there, and I'm certainly not reading every single comment and every single link posted. But from the post itself, and the screenshots contained therein, db0 comes away looking really bad.
All this talk about Uyghurs is, frankly, not especially interesting to me in this context. It's a distraction from the main mod abuse that concerns me. I myself was banned by one of their mods. Another mod overruled them, but I never received an apology or explanation from the mod responsible. As long as that remains true, and the mod responsible is still a mod, I absolutely maintain my original stance.
db0 comes away looking really bad.
It comes looking bad because the whole post was kind of a smear campaign about the instance.
I never received an apology or explanation from the mod responsible. As long as that remains true, and the mod responsible is still a mod, I absolutely maintain my original stance.
Interesting enough, I just had a look at the comment in the thread you mentioned
Oh, my bad. I see that you’ve reapproved the comment though. My sincere thanks.
Unruffled@lemmy.dbzer0.com, I’d love to know what your thought process was at the time.
https://aussie.zone/comment/18622436
Unruffled never received that ping, their username is @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com
I'm going to try something to kind of settle that issue, it might not work, but at least I will have tried.
@Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , could you please provide some details about this mod decision?
The details are that I removed this comment towards davel which seemed like nothing but a random insult that had nothing whatsoever to do with the post topic and seemed likely to just derail the conversation. I should maybe have noted it as off topic rather than just being needlessly abusive.
their username is Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Urgh what? Custom display names is the worst feature of Lemmy, and users who abuse that to give the appearance of a completely different name suck.
People who use the software as intended are abusing the software and suck? Gotcha. I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to use that feature, my bad I guess. Thanks for offering your considered opinion on my username, it really added a lot to the discussion.
This person got mad at me because I said they had a hate boner for db0.
But according to them, removing one comment is a ban, using features of the platform is making us weird, and they had to ping the admins for no reason.
But I'm the weirdo.
Still waiting for an apology for your mod abuse, that db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com overturned, but seems to be otherwise unbothered by.
Thanks for offering your considered opinion on my username
Your username having no bearing on your display name directly led to confusion as shown by this thread. People who use it to display their username in funny fonts, or to append pronouns, are using it in a way that I do not take issue with. People who make it look like they're somebody else just lead to confusion. It added to the discussion because that's what this conversation was about.
Still waiting for an apology for your mod abuse, that db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com overturned, but seems to be otherwise unbothered by.
I guess you'll be waiting a while. Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of folks like you jumping into our communities to froth at the mouth over tankies simply for existing, whether real (as in this case) or imagined (as in my case). It's nothing but shit-stirring and pointless drama.
For the record, I fundamentally disagree with tankies on their mostly uncritical support for AES / former AES states. And I've always had that position. It hasn't changed, no matter how bad faith trolls try to paint that narrative. Anti-authoritarianism is a fundamental principle of anarchism and it's one I live by. It's ridiculous I even have to make disclaimer like these, but with the amount of bad faith takes going on lately I guess I've got to keep saying it.
But having said that, you don't need to bring that shit into every single interaction with someone. That's just toxic behaviour intended to derail a conversation and bait a response, so no, I don't apologize for removing your comment.
I also disagree with a lot of libs on their governments' mostly uncritical support for Israel. The Dems are currently upset with our instance because they get the same treatment all the other authoritarian supporters get, so they are trying to spin this as us "being tankie". Just because their own party consistently votes for imperial wars and genocides doesn't mean they are bad as the tankies for supporting genocide right? And we all have to go along with their asinine electoralism to vote for the "lesser evil" or we're obviously working for the Russians or the Chinese or whatever other boogeyman US politics has decided to scapegoat for the abject harms of neoliberal economics right? And if we just keep voting for the lesser evil party they'll stop dropping/supplying bombs to kill brown people eventually, right? Well, no. I call bullshit on all of that. Anarchists see this with clear eyes. Campist takes are as bad coming from the Dems as they are coming from the ML instances.
And it's ironic that mouth-foaming haters like PugJesus are blind to the fact they are part of drumming up the exact same "red peril" scare that McCarthy was guilty of - a notorious time in US politics when Republican politicians were in full witch-hunt mode. But he's "vaguely leftist" so its ok right? And since he will no doubt read this because he's seemingly completely obsessed with me, no Senator Pug McJesus - I haven't done a 180 on tankies. When I say we have more in common with instances like ml and hexbear, I mean in terms of political theory: we all believe that capitalism, especially the neo-liberal form of unfettered corporate greed, is fundamentally incompatible with social, economic, and political equity. As anarchists, we do of course differ on details of how achieve the objective of a truly socialist economy, and whether or not nation states are required, but one thing we can agree upon is that capitalism and corporate greed are directly responsible for millions of preventable deaths each year, and vastly more misery and suffering because of totally unnecessary poverty that exists only because of the greed of rich capitalists. The Real Violent Extremists Are The Freaks Who Run The US Empire.
Before I respond to the specific points you raised, I want to respond to the general vibes of it. Because genuinely, aside from the specific bits aimed personally at me (which mostly seem made out of ignorance), I liked it. I'll take this comment as equivalent to the apology, because it's at least a decent shot at an explanation for your actions I was asking for. I suspect that if you and I were to meet and discuss politics IRL, we'd get along pretty well. I hate tankies, but outside of Lemmy I rarely give them any thought. Zionists are a far bigger issue. Not least because my own government aids Israel's genocide, and because the immediate intensity of that genocide is so much greater than anything China is doing. I am far more concerned with what Israel is doing to Palestinians right now than anything China is doing...with the exception that because I have some very good friends from Taiwan, every bit of news about China's actions around Taiwan are concerning, even if so far it has not amounted to anything concrete.
I would not label myself an anarchist per se, but I lean that way. I'm strongly in favour of decision-making being devolved to be made by more local communities, empowered to feel genuine ownership over decisions. I don't know quite how you balance that with NIMBY instincts, but hopefully being included in a genuinely deliberative process would reduce alienation and help lead to more thoughtful, less reactive NIMBY-style opinions. And more and more over recent years I have become disillusioned by the very top-down approach that is common in many representative democracies.
The very existence of billionaires is anathema to healthy society, but they're a natural product of the capitalist economic system. And therefore the capitalist economic system is anathema to healthy society.
Honestly I’m getting pretty tired of folks like you jumping into our communities to froth at the mouth over tankies simply for existing
and
you don’t need to bring that shit into every single interaction with someone. That’s just toxic behaviour intended to derail a conversation
Did you see the comment that started my thread? All I did was politely point out that according to the already expressed beliefs of the OP, they were already acknowledging the Uyghur genocide in all but name. That is, they expressed that they believe human rights abuses with the aim of erasing a culture were happening (an act that is per se tantamount to genocide, under the original definition of the term), even though they were reticent to use the G word itself. It was, I thought, a fairly amicable conversation between people who basically agree on the facts, if not the conclusions you should draw from those facts.
Then the actual tankie jumped into it to talk genocide denialist bullshit. This isn't "frothing at the mouth over tankies simply for existing". It isn't me "bringing that shit into every single interaction". It's me criticising tankies for expressing some of the worst examples of their beliefs when they were the ones who brought the conversation to you. And a few other tankies also joined in the fun. One of whom seems to have gotten away scott-free with a comment that adds literally nothing to the conversation by saying just one word: "dumb". The toxic derailing behaviour was not from me, it was from tankies. But I can understand the error; it was a complicated thread, there was a lot going on. It's understandable for a mod to lose track of every single comment's context.
But as I said, fundamentally, this comment of yours has gone a long way towards reassuring me of your intent.
You are right that some of what I said and doesn't apply to you in particular, but was more of a general sentiment about what I felt was going on in the post and in general lately. Having read the thread again more closely I can see that I probably read you a bit wrong. So I will say sorry for making some bad faith assumptions.
I'm glad we could clear the air. There's been a bit of a disinfo campaign being waged against our instance lately by a few trolls with an axe to grind, so that probably colored my reaction a little. Every other political thread seems to end with people yelling "tankie" or "fascist" to each other like it's ever gonna achieve anything. No war but class war has got to be the best way forward. Personally I'm done with leftist infighting for now. Marxists aren't the real threat anyway.
Thanks for being level headed about this
And it’s ironic that mouth-foaming haters like PugJesus are blind to the fact they are part of drumming up the exact same “red peril” scare that McCarthy was guilty of - a notorious time in US politics when Republican politicians were in full witch-hunt mode. But he’s “vaguely leftist” so its ok right? And since he will no doubt read this because he’s seemingly completely obsessed with me, no Senator Pug McJesus - I haven’t done a 180 on tankies.
And he's doing it right now on MeanwhileOnGrad, more out of context screenshots, more making up context.
He really can't go touch grass can he? Foaming at the mouth at anarchists online, actively hating anything leftist, but if you voted in an election you're still evil.
And he’s doing it right now on MeanwhileOnGrad, more out of context screenshots, more making up context.
That thread is quite something
Good work on what you can there. My blood pressure can't handle such bullshit as often as you do. God speed.
Since you're pinging me: Your comment was flamebaiting and toxic. It shouldn't have been removed as "harassment", but it's definitely skirting the edge of what's acceptable and is definitely off-topic. I don't think you deserve an apology for your behaviour, even if I disagreed with the decision.
Sorry, my comment was flamebaiting, but the sealioning by the other guy wasn't? Dude started it by saying my sources were bad and claiming that his source (which was a search page on Lemmy) refuted it. All from a user who is well-known to be a very prominent tankie on this platform. I don't see how pointing that fact out is any sort of borderline.
Great, so you were both acting out. The mod acted probably more strictly than they should, at the most obvious of those acts, during a heated period, which is why I reverted it. Still doesn't deserve an apology. FFS, it's just a reverted comment deletion. Stop acting like your integrity was wounded or something.
And then they got mad at me claiming they didn't like db0 for no reason, claiming they were bad faith about this.
No, I didn't "act out", I pointed out a bad actor for what they were, as a small part of a comment refuting them. (Heck, if you wanted to level the "acting out" accusation at me, my more recent comment in this thread where a different one of your users was and still is being a bad faith troll and I actually did lower myself to their level would have been one to point to.)
But anyway, as far as I'm concerned flatworm's response to me closes out the matter.
Now that we see that the decision was a comment removal and not a ban, I'm not sure if you should expect apologies, removing a comment that has since then been restored seems like a much minor event than an actual ban
Your username having no bearing on your display name directly led to confusion as shown by this thread. People who use it to display their username in funny fonts, or to append pronouns, are using it in a way that I do not take issue with. People who make it look like they’re somebody else just lead to confusion. It added to the discussion because that’s what this conversation was about.
My username was randomly generated. It's not some conspiracy. You can always use @unruffled@anarchist.nexus is that's easier to remember.
You made a username, that's impossible to read and you're the real Tankie for it!
I myself was banned by one of their mods.
Also reading that comment again, I double checked but it was just a comment removal, not a ban, right?
https://aussie.zone/modlog?userId=76535
Oh yes, looks like it was. My bad. Well that's certainly better than my last run-in with Lund.
The fact that the admins have demoted Lund, but not actually taken away the powers that he was abusing. 🤦♂️
Yes it's an ongoing show