okay im watching disneys 1950 treasure island right now- is "the black spot" a real thing? what did it mean?

It’s a great scene, isn’t it? To answer your question: No, the "Black Spot" wasn't a real historical pirate tradition.

It was actually invented by the author Robert Louis Stevenson for the original Treasure Island novel (1883). Even though it feels like "classic" pirate lore, you won't find it in historical records of real pirates like Blackbeard or Bartholomew Roberts.

Here is what it actually means and where it likely came from:

What it Means

In the world of Treasure Island, the Black Spot is a formal verdict of guilt or a death sentence issued by a pirate crew to one of their own.

• The Physical Object: It’s a small, circular piece of paper blackened with soot or ink on one side. The other side usually has a specific message (like "Deposed" or a time/place).
• The Message: It tells the recipient they are either being stripped of their rank as captain or that they’ve been marked for execution for violating the "Pirate Code."
• The Fear Factor: In the movie and book, it’s treated as a supernatural or psychological "kiss of death." Billy Bones is so terrified of it that it contributes to his fatal stroke.

Why Stevenson Invented It

While Stevenson made up the "spot" itself, he likely drew inspiration from real-life superstitions and history:

• The Ace of Spades: There are historical accounts of Caribbean pirates using the Ace of Spades (the "death card") to identify a traitor or an informer.
• Old Courtroom Habits: In some ancient cultures, judges would use black stones or pebbles to signify a "guilty" vote in a trial.
• Biblical Symbolism: In the book, the pirates actually tear a page out of a Bible to make the spot—which was considered a huge "jinx" or double-curse among superstitious sailors.

Fun Fact

The Black Spot became so famous that it crossed over into other pirate movies. If you've seen Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, Jack Sparrow gets a literal black boil on his hand—that’s a direct nod to the 1950 movie you're watching right now!

Would you like me to look up any other pirate myths from the movie to see if they're real—like walking the plank or buried treasure?

historical accounts of the ace of spades being used

It’s a fascinating bit of history, but much like the "Black Spot," the story of pirates using the Ace of Spades as a "Death Card" is a mix of a little bit of truth and a whole lot of legend.

Here is the breakdown of the historical accounts and how they likely inspired Robert Louis Stevenson:

1. The "On the Spot" Theory

There is a persistent historical theory (often cited in maritime research) that 18th-century Caribbean pirates would show an Ace of Spades to a crew member suspected of being a traitor or an informer.

• The Symbolism: The Ace of Spades has only one "pip" (the black shape in the center). Because it was a single spot, it put the traitor "on the spot"—meaning they were under scrutiny and their life was on the line.
• The Result: Unlike the Black Spot, which was a formal verdict, the Ace of Spades was often a warning: “We know what you’re doing, and you’re next.”

2. The Tax Man and the Gallows

The card’s dark reputation actually has a very "boring" legal origin that became deadly. In 1711, the British government started taxing playing cards.

• To prove the tax was paid, the Ace of Spades had to be stamped with a special official seal.
• Because this made cards expensive, people started forging them.
• At the time, forging an official government stamp was a capital offense punishable by hanging.
• Consequently, the Ace of Spades literally became a "death card"—if you were caught with a fake one, you were going to the gallows.

3. The "Dead Man's Hand"

While not strictly a pirate story, the most famous historical account of the Ace of Spades as a bad omen comes from the American Old West. In 1876, "Wild Bill" Hickok was shot in the back while playing poker. Legend says he was holding a pair of black aces (including the Ace of Spades) and a pair of black eights. Since then, that specific hand has been known as the "Dead Man's Hand."

4. Modern Psychological Warfare

The most documented "real" use of the Ace of Spades as a death symbol didn't happen in the 1700s, but during the Vietnam War.

• U.S. troops mistakenly believed that the Viet Cong were terrified of the Ace of Spades as a symbol of death (due to French colonial influence).
• American units would scatter the cards in the jungle or leave them on the bodies of enemy soldiers as a form of psychological warfare.
• The U.S. Playing Card Company even shipped crates of "All Ace of Spades" decks to troops for this purpose.

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Summary Table

Tradition	Historical Reality	Meaning
The Black Spot	Literary Invention	Formal death sentence / Deposing a captain.
Ace of Spades	Maritime Folklore	Warning to traitors; "On the spot."
Forged Aces	Legal Fact	Death by hanging for tax evasion/counterfeiting.
Dead Man's Hand	Wild West Legend	Two pair (Aces & Eights); signifies impending doom.

It's very likely that Stevenson combined the "on the spot" pirate folklore with the "blackened stamp" of the tax laws to create the iconic Black Spot you’re seeing in the movie!

Since you're watching the 1950 version, would you like to know which parts of Long John Silver's "pirate accent" are real and which were just made up by the actor?

didnt bill hickok actually have a fifth card face down that no one flipped?

That is a legendary detail! You're hitting on the biggest mystery of the "Dead Man's Hand."

While there is no contemporary police report from 1876 that lists the cards, the "fifth card" is the subject of endless historical debate. Here is the truth behind the face-down card:

The "Mystery Card" Theories

Historians and storytellers have proposed several identities for that fifth card (the "kicker"), but nobody actually knows for sure. Depending on which Wild West museum you visit, you'll see a different card:

• The Queen of Hearts: This is the most popular "romantic" version. Legend says the card even had a drop of Hickok's blood on it.
• The Nine of Diamonds: Often cited in historical displays in Deadwood, South Dakota, where the shooting happened.
• The Jack of Diamonds: Another common display in Deadwood casinos.
• The Five of Diamonds: A theory popularized by the old Stardust Casino in Las Vegas.

Did he even have a fifth card?

The most likely historical reality is even more dramatic: He might not have been holding a fifth card at all. Hickok was playing a game of Five-Card Draw. According to some witnesses, he had just discarded his fifth card and was waiting for the dealer to give him a new one when Jack McCall walked up behind him. If that’s true, he was killed while his hand was literally "incomplete"—which makes the legend feel even more like an unfinished omen.

Why do people say it was face down?

The "face down" idea comes from the fact that when Hickok was shot, he slumped over the table or fell to the floor. In most retellings, his fingers remained "crimped" around the cards. When the bystanders finally pried the cards from his hand, the Aces and Eights were revealed, but the fifth card was either missing, unmemorable, or face down and ignored in the chaos of the murder.

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Since you're clearly a fan of Western and Pirate lore, would you like me to find some high-quality replicas of the "Dead Man's Hand" or even Robert Louis Stevenson's "Treasure Island" books for your collection?

well it sounds like the fifth card hadnt been dealt yet and actually wouldve been at the top of the dealers deck, but that after bill got shot everyone obviously gave up on the card game, including the dealer who probably never thought to try flipping the next card to see what it wouldve been ?

That’s exactly the most logical historical theory! You’ve hit on the "incomplete draw" theory, which many historians think is the most likely truth of that day.

Here is the breakdown of why that "dealer’s deck" theory carries so much weight:

The "Discard and Draw" Scenario

Most accounts agree they were playing Five-Card Draw. In this game, players get five cards, discard the ones they don't want, and the dealer gives them replacements from the top of the deck.

• The Legend: Hickok had already looked at his cards and seen the two pair (Aces and Eights).
• The Action: He had likely just discarded his "kicker" (the fifth card) and was waiting for the dealer, a young man named Charlie Rich, to deal him a new one.
• The Interruption: Before the new card could touch the table, Jack McCall fired.

Why the Dealer Never "Flipped" the Next Card

You’re right—in a normal game, you'd just look at the next card. But this wasn't a normal game:

1. Instant Chaos: When the shot went off, it wasn't just a "game over." It was a bloodbath. The bullet passed through Hickok’s head and hit another player, Captain Massie, in the wrist.
2. A Fight for Life: The shooter, Jack McCall, then tried to shoot everyone else in the room, but his gun misfired several times. People were diving for cover, not looking at the deck.
3. The "Coroner's" Record: By the time the town "barber-surgeon" (a man named Ellis "Doc" Peirce) arrived to examine the body, Hickok was on the floor. Peirce claimed the cards were still clutched in Hickok's "crimped" fingers. If the fifth card was still in the deck, it was lost in the shuffle of the crowd or pocketed as a macabre souvenir.

The "Mystery" as a Business

Today, the mystery of that fifth card is actually part of the tourism of Deadwood, South Dakota. Since no one actually knows what it was, different places can claim different things:

• The Lucky Nugget (on the site of the original saloon) displays it as the Jack of Diamonds.
• Other Deadwood displays show the Nine of Diamonds.
• The Stardust Casino in Vegas used the Five of Diamonds.

It’s essentially the Wild West's version of a "choose your own adventure" ending.

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Since you're clearly into the "authenticity" of these legends, would you like me to look up some high-quality replicas of the Dead Man's Hand or even a classic Robert Louis Stevenson collection to add to your bookshelf?

anyway so nonetheless there was a fifth card; no one knows what it was